Is this thing legal?

[Winky]

Just cruising ebay and I saw this...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-Series-Defender-110-300Tdi_W0QQitemZ130128281588QQihZ003QQcategoryZ318 49QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I love the color.
My question is, is this a grey market type vehicle? I was under the impression that right hand drive isn't allowed in the U.S.

Cheers
Josh

[Lynn]

I was under the impression it was pretty easy to import anything over 15 years old.

There is no law against right-hand-drive. Driving one may not be a good idea. Makes it hard to pass on the freeway, for one thing, since you have to pull all the way into the other lane before you can see if it's clear to pull into the other lane...

[PhulesAU]

If right hand drive was ilegal, you wouldn't get any mail.

[adventureduo]

If right hand drive was ilegal, you wouldn't get any mail.

What he said!

[Andrew Walcker]

If right hand drive was ilegal, you wouldn't get any mail.

:jump:

[Winky]

If right hand drive was ilegal, you wouldn't get any mail.
Good point:oops: . I thought that was some sort of exeption deal since it is always government vehicles. Where I live (the wilds of n. Illinois) the mail lady sits on the passenger seat of her civic. I suppose I'll take this this moment to thank all the good folks of the US Postal service.. tuff job and like Newman says "The mail never stops."

Josh

[Andrew Walcker]

Josh, not really sure what to tell you about it being legal. If it has a valid registration in the state it is located, and the state you live in has no problem with the transfer, than it's legal enough. If you want to post it up on www.d-90.com, you will get a lot of feed back there. Good luck and let us know if you are the lucky winner! :wings:

[Winky]

I was under the impression it was pretty easy to import anything over 15 years old.

There is no law against right-hand-drive. Driving one may not be a good idea. Makes it hard to pass on the freeway, for one thing, since you have to pull all the way into the other lane before you can see if it's clear to pull into the other lane...


That's a good point on passing. Anyone else have any insight on driving a rhd vehicle?
josh

[Winky]

. Good luck and let us know if you are the lucky winner! :wings:


No sir not me. One day soon I hope to own a Defender... I don't need to tell you all about how beautiful they are... ever since "All gods must be crazy" I have wanted one... I wish they could have made them compliant back in the 90s and still imported them. It makes me sick when I look in the back of UK magazine and see these selling for nothing. Were Land Rover to take notice of the success of the JK 4 door and start importing these again.. I would be first in line to buy one. Who am I kidding.. they would probably just screw it up and bastardize it like the LR3 (no offence).

Josh

[Andrew Walcker]

That's a good point on passing. Anyone else have any insight on driving a rhd vehicle?
josh

On the flip side it makes it easier to pass the Grey Poupon when going the same direction as the car next to you! :chowtime:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NGZ7cOZ0Kr8&mode=related&search=

[Andrew Walcker]

No sir not me. One day soon I hope to own a Defender... I don't need to tell you all about how beautiful they are... ever since "All gods must be crazy" I have wanted one... I wish they could have made them compliant back in the 90s and still imported them. It makes me sick when I look in the back of UK magazine and see these selling for nothing. Were Land Rover to take notice of the success of the JK 4 door and start importing these again.. I would be first in line to buy one. Who am I kidding.. they would probably just screw it up and bastardize it like the LR3 (no offence).

Josh

:iagree: :clapsmile

[overlander]

How about NO! This is an often discussed to death topic on D-90, of which you can find every out of the box concept discussed. There are 3 different kind of market classifications: white, grey and black. White means it was built to meet US spec and legally imported as a production vehicle. Grey means it wasn't, but was made to be after the fact, and legally inspected and authorized by the BIG 2 federal agencies: EPA and DOT. Black means it was slipped in, not federally compliant and a big risk. Taking a series frame, and swapping everything to include the vin plates, is illegal. federal offense. I can see in this picture that his "defender" has coil springs, not leaf as originally. My guess is he either coiled the series spring, or swapped the vin (marginally wrong and federal offense wrong respectively). DOT strictly prohibits the importation of RHD vehicles-period. So this was most likely built from parts, or brought in technically illegally. States may or may not comply with all or some of EPA and DOT regulations. If you bought a black market vehicle, which this is, and you try to register it in another state other than the state he successfully bamboozled, then you face the risk of having the state DOT give you the finger on inspection for registration.

Don't get me wrong, it makes me sick that there aren't more defenders here, and I can TOTALLY empathize with anyone wanting to roll the dice and buy a black market defender that got a US state title. But be clear, you are rolling the dice. If you don't ever plan on moving, and the title is in the state you are already living in, and you never plan to sell it, ever, then I say go for it. Also, if you are ok with risking $50-$100k on a purchase that may get denied for registration post-purchase, again go for it. But consider this, if the EPA or DOT find out, what normally happens is they seize the vehicle and crush it. And no amount of But, But, but... will stop it.

I have learned all this from many others (1st hand and 2nd hand info) in my enormous research prior to buying my 110. After all that, in the end, I ponied up and bought an NAS 110 with a legal vin.

Btw, the 15 year rule is for Canada; we have a 25 year rule...again, sucks for us. good news is we are only a year or 2 away from the first production years for defenders.

got to east coast rovers website, as they are the SME's on defenders in the US, and spell it out quite significantly on their website. http://www.eastcoastrover.com/


Given all that, it is a nice 110. break my heart to see it crushed. If you live in NC (I do!) then go for it, and don't publicly bragg about your vehicle. If you go NAS like I did, then bragg on, cause you're legit.

[Andrew Walcker]

Mark- way better advice than what I gave Josh! I think you pretty much hit it on the head. Check this auction out speaking of Grey/Black Market.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-or-is-it-Series-III-109-Defender-clone_W0QQitemZ140133081728QQihZ004QQcategoryZ6296 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I drive a right hand drive cruiser around daily. The biggest adjustment was the turn signal indicator. I would try to cancel the signal after a turn and miss since it was on the other side of the column. my 1980 HJ45 was legally imported into the US and currently has valid registration and a NV title. besides being easy to drive, it's a blast. Passing in the fast lane is no issue.


There is alot of misinformation out there regarding importing and right hand
drive vehicles. Theres a thread about my ride in the cruiser section.

[aricea]

Josh -

I've driven RHD Land Rovers here in the States for the last 6 years. Learning the gearbox with my left hand took a little getting used to, but sitting on the wrong side of the truck was only a bother on my very first drive. It is true that passing on a two-lane road is a bit more dangerous in a RHD vehicle, but I find that in a Land Rover the frequency of this need doesn't occur very often. When you are on a 4 or 6 lane highway or when you are off in the woods, the RHD is not an issue at all.

Oh, and as for the turn-signal stalk issue reported by the RHD Land Cruiser owner, Land Rover turn signal stalks are located in the conventional location on the left hand side of the steering column.

Good luck if you decide to bid. That's a very good looking truck.

- - - Aric

[xcmountain80]

If right hand drive was ilegal, you wouldn't get any mail.

Always one to point out the obvious! I love it, this brought a smile to my face as I was like uh yeah thats true. Though where my office is it's kinda rural and the mail lady drive a honda element from the passenger seat.

Aaron

[LJRockstar]

When I bought my LJ, I was seriously considering getting a RHD model. Just to be different. But when faced with the price difference of ordering the rig and the one they had on the lot... well... No RHD for me! Woulda been fun though, the way people look and can't understand why no one is driving! lol

[DaveInDenver]

It is true that passing on a two-lane road is a bit more dangerous in a RHD vehicle, but I find that in a Land Rover the frequency of this need doesn't occur very often. When you are on a 4 or 6 lane highway or when you are off in the woods, the RHD is not an issue at all.
I was sort of thinking this. The trucks we're talking about are old Rovers, Land Cruiser and the like that are old enough to invoke the 15 or 25 year old grandfather clause in the registration laws. This means usually naturally aspirated, pretty old technology diesels...S L O W. Heck, my relatively young gasoline powered truck is slow. My point is how often is passing on a 2 lane really going to be a problem? It's usually me that's holding up traffic!

[overlander]

Of course there are RHD vehicle in the states that are legally registered. it's a lot easier to drive a RHD vehicle across the border from canada, and then register it here in the states, then having it come out of a shipping connex in the sphere of influence of customs and federal DOT, that will whip out there magnifying glass and clipboards and have at anything with tires on it before it leaves the dock.

If you want to understand the risks and dark side, here is an excellent thread from D90 that illustrates those risks, appropriately entitled "Some guy's importation horror story: "

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11894&highlight=rhd

We are all just putting forward information to make sure anyone considering this is making an informed decision. The buyer is the one bearing all the risk.

[Bruce Behnfeldt]

That's a good point on passing. Anyone else have any insight on driving a rhd vehicle?
josh


ya, toll booths and the drive thru are a pain in the butt. as far as passing...


http://hexhead.smugmug.com/photos/162995189-S.jpg


...given this bad boy's power to weight ratio who am i going to pass.

[The Swiss]

I was under the impression it was pretty easy to import anything over 15 years old.

There is no law against right-hand-drive. Driving one may not be a good idea. Makes it hard to pass on the freeway, for one thing, since you have to pull all the way into the other lane before you can see if it's clear to pull into the other lane...15 years for CANADA, 25 for the US. Except if it is on the famous eligibility list, which actually the 1993 Defender 110 is.

On a side note: There is no such thing as a 1980 Defender 110, the 110 production started in 1984, and they were not called Defenders until 1991!

[stevenmd]

After having read through "most" of this thread... if you really want a decent Defender 110, check out www.lrx.com. Great selection.

OK, now having said that... I have a hard time fathoming why someone would want to pay that type of money for a 110. Yeah, you can get them sometimes for around $40,000 but even those need a lot of work. You can import them from the UK but unless they are sitting on a new chassis, you are looking at a ton of rust.

What I would do... buy a 109 2a for around $5000 - 6000 that is already here and LEGALLY registered. Then put $35,000 into a complete rebuild, picking the type of engine you want, etc. and viola! you have a pretty near new vehicle built the way you want down to a tee. And you have the same amount of money sunk into it that you would have into a 1993 110 that still needs work.

In fact, there is a 109 2a an hour away from me that is not together albeit it is complete, sitting on a brand new ECR coil sprung frame for $5000... Hmmmmm, I'll be back in an hour....:)

[Winky]

In fact, there is a 109 2a an hour away from me that is not together albeit it is complete, sitting on a brand new ECR coil sprung frame for $5000... Hmmmmm, I'll be back in an hour....:)
SWEET! DO IT! Build thread time!:jumping:

[stevenmd]

SWEET! DO IT! Build thread time!:jumping:
Got to build up that 1994 RRC LWB that I just bought first. If I grabbed that 109, it would sit in the garage for a few years before I got to it!:shakin:

[overlander]

luckily that's what I did. I waited about a year until a engine fire NAS 110 came up, then bought it for $20k, and fully restored the front end and interior, and dropped the 2.8 powerstroke diesel into it for a total of $50k, and had EXACTLY what I wanted. Mine spent it's life in california, so there is zero rust on the frame and chassis, and I have a fully blasted and painted vented bulkhead, and late model A/C. I love my truck.

[viatierra]

luckily that's what I did. I waited about a year until a engine fire NAS 110 came up, then bought it for $20k, and fully restored the front end and interior, and dropped the 2.8 powerstroke diesel into it for a total of $50k, and had EXACTLY what I wanted. Mine spent it's life in california, so there is zero rust on the frame and chassis, and I have a fully blasted and painted vented bulkhead, and late model A/C. I love my truck.

Weren't you at the 2005 Nevada Trophy? A burnt & recovered 110 was there. Either way, you've got a sweet ride!

[overlander]

Thank you. But that wasn't me.

[Lynn]

Yeah, I was probably wrong when I said that there is nothing illegal about RHD.

All I really know is that after driving a 110 while stationed for two years in Spain, then a 110 and a 130? (crew cab truck) while working for a year in Turkey, Land Rovers suck. But this isn't the tread for that, is it?

[Andrew Walcker]

All I really know is that after driving a 110 while stationed for two years in Spain, then a 110 and a 130? (crew cab truck) while working for a year in Turkey, Land Rovers suck.

Glad that is just your opinion!


But this isn't the tread for that, is it?

This is probably not the web site for that thread!

[Lynn]

Glad that is just your opinion!



This is probably not the web site for that thread!

Oops. Guess I forgot the 'IMHO.'