Border Patrol chooses Jeep

[haven]

I feel safer already.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Border_Dave/Border%20Patrol%20Jeeps/BPJK2.jpg

Credit to "pixeldzn" on the www.jkboard.com site.

[jeffryscott]

they've been using Rubicons for a few years now down here along the border. At least with the 4-door versions they can fit some extra folks on board if need be.

Mark Stephens did an article for JPFreek about the use of the Jeep's in Nogales a few months back.

[calamaridog]

They use Jeep, Dodge, Ford, and Chevy. They also have atv's and horses:D I saw a BP F250 4x4 this morning.

My buddy HATED getting stuck with the Rubicons...

[goodtimes]

I don't see the jeeps in Border Patrol trim nearly as often as I used to. I hear they have had durability problems with them...I doubt the Jeep engineers had the border patrol in mind when they designed them. Sad to say, but BP is probably better off with military vehicles (like the original hummer), which were designed for the type of service they (BP vehicles) will see.

[calamaridog]

My best buddy worked BP until a few weeks ago. His main complaint about the Jeeps was low comfort level for the majority of the work they do and a lack of utility for carrying prisoners. He and his buddies seem to prefer the 3/4 ton 4x4 trucks with those prisoner cage inserts in the back.

The jeeps certainly have their uses for getting into more difficult terrain when you really have to.

All BP vehicles have very limited service lives and spend a good amount of time in the shop. They also wreck an amazing number of vehicles:oops:

[jeffryscott]

and I've been told by BP the Hummers really don't hold up well, which is why they don't have more in service.

They certainly put vehicles through the ringer and find all the weaknesses in them. For a while when they were using the Ford Expeditions, they had to modify each one to cover the oil filter, it was exposed from underneath, not a good feature for a 4x4 that is used in rough country. And they found out the frames on the Expeditions were subject to severe cracking.

[rmarz]

Here are a couple more pics of the new JK's that are coming on line for the BP. The one pictured has a cage for three prisoners and the rear seats removed. The TJ and LJ models fell short in the comfort dept. as sitting in them with a gun belt on left little room for comfort.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9388/documentmsgidinboxdelimcu5.jpg

[rmarz]

Here is the other pic, darn lack of picture posting experience here.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2609/documentmsgidinboxdelimbw1.jpg

[pskhaat]

As a tangent to make you cringe when you see it, the BP also drags dozens of sets of brand-new 37" MTRs to grade/level the sand roads.

[articulate]

What a trip! Right "up my alley."

I did ride along with the BP a few months ago and wrote an article about the experience. BP has a fleet of TJs, as well as Tahoes, Chargers, Humvees, and a few other vehicles.


The TJs are trashed after years of use (and abuse)
Agents are not trained on how to drive a four-wheel-drive
Agents are the current under-appreciated law enforcement segment


I, too, believe that getting the new Jeep is a significant improvement.

http://www.markdstephens.com/images/border_patrol_jeep.jpg

http://www.markdstephens.com/images/border_patrol_jeep2.jpg



They use Jeep, Dodge, Ford, and Chevy. They also have atv's and horses:D
Mountain bikes as well.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

The Main BP Vehicle that I see in East County San Diego is the..............

Almighty..............

Dodge 4x4 Pick up............!

Who woulda known/thought.................>?

It actually does not matter because their new M~16's are pretty impressive!:shakin:........... :ar15:



.

[goodtimes]

sitting in them with a gun belt on left little room for comfort

That is a darn good point....

[rmarz]

As a tangent to make you cringe when you see it, the BP also drags dozens of sets of brand-new 37" MTRs to grade/level the sand roads.


While I can not speak for the thousands of agents along the US/Mex border, I can say that tires are a hot commodity and any tire I have seen on a 'drag' was not usable as a tire mounted on a vehicle. Tires with tread on a 'drag' most likely have a punctured side wall.

[Willman]

Here are a couple more pics of the new JK's that are coming on line for the BP. The one pictured has a cage for three prisoners and the rear seats removed. The TJ and LJ models fell short in the comfort dept. as sitting in them with a gun belt on left little room for comfort.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9388/documentmsgidinboxdelimcu5.jpg

Where's the roof mounted 50 Cal.??????:shakin:

[IXNAYXJ]

Mark Stephens did an article for JPFreek about the use of the Jeep's in Nogales a few months back.Don't believe anything he says. That guy's a total poser.

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/blah.gif

-----Matt-----

[calamaridog]

I think having room to carry a few prisoners makes the new Jeep viable versus the 2 door short wheelbase models.

[erin]

I know they are hard on vehicles, there is a Purcells that does all their tires by my work, and everyday there are about 5-15 sitting waiting for new tires, and/or replacements. I also talked to the owner of Tucson Diff, who does a lot of ontract work for the BP, and they wreck diffs like its going out of style, not to mention axles, haha:Mechanic:

[rmarz]

I think having room to carry a few prisoners makes the new Jeep viable versus the 2 door short wheelbase models.


The Jeeps I saw were set up with the cage to the back, about where the back of the rear seats would be if installed. That means it will hold two prisoners, the same as the TJ. The main advantage to the new Jeep will be that with the cage farther away from the driver the seat will slide all of the way back and recline. This will provide a more reasonable comfort level for spending a 10 hour shift in one, assuming the agent is not out on foot.

The idea behind removing the rear seats is that with a driver passenger and two prisoners the vehicle is not over weight, an issue with cages, lights, racks etc.

[pskhaat]

I can say that tires are a hot commodity and any tire I have seen on a 'drag' was not usable as a tire mounted on a vehicle. Tires with tread on a 'drag' most likely have a punctured side wall.

I would think so too. But in Jan 06 down on the Camino Del Diablo, we saw dozens of seemingly brand-new tires like this. They still had the injection remnants all over and the tread looks like they had never been driven and the bead looked perfect. The only thing we saw wrong with them was the hole someone put in the sidewall to attach chain.

[JPFreek1]

Interesting stuff. I'm curious what the BP thinks of the new JK, now that they've got a much more suitable version of Jeep vehicle to work with.

Mark, are you ready for round #2 with the BP? ;)

-F

[IXNAYXJ]

...and they wreck diffs like its going out of style, not to mention axles, haha.Doing what, I wonder? I don't think of hard-core rock-crawling when I think border patrol. Maybe Uncle Sam should just spring for D60s and not have to keep fixing them...?

-----Matt-----

[jeffryscott]

Doing what, I wonder? I don't think of hard-core rock-crawling when I think border patrol. Maybe Uncle Sam should just spring for D60s and not have to keep fixing them...?

-----Matt-----


From what I've seen, and what Mark alluded to is they aren't trained in driving in a 4x4. All the times I've done ride-alongs with them, probably close to 100 in 15 years of covering the border, I've not ever seen them put vehicles into 4wd until AFTER they needed it. I think with that scenario, it is easy to break things when you are trying to power out or through something. Engaging 4wd at that point, it is easy to break things. It isn't just them, I think many, many people take vehicles too far, then put it in 4wd after it is needed.

Myself, I'll put it in 4wd on almost any dirt road of any length. I figure the stuff should be used and lubricated to keep it healthy.

[Blacknmuddy]

Not sure about not training 4x4 specifically, But they are however trained in driving off-road, I've also read something about Corporate/Government OHV Training.

[erin]

From what the mechanic told me, a lot of the damage comes from pulling an Expo style Tacodoc off of berms responding to calls, basically jumping and landing with the rev limiter pegged, and upon landing, snap, crakle pop!! I'm sure the axles come from improper skill as Jeff alluded to.

[calamaridog]

From what I've seen, and what Mark alluded to is they aren't trained in driving in a 4x4. All the times I've done ride-alongs with them, probably close to 100 in 15 years of covering the border, I've not ever seen them put vehicles into 4wd until AFTER they needed it. I think with that scenario, it is easy to break things when you are trying to power out or through something. Engaging 4wd at that point, it is easy to break things. It isn't just them, I think many, many people take vehicles too far, then put it in 4wd after it is needed.

I don't believe the average agent has even basic off road driving skills. Certainly some of them already knew how when they joined from military or civilian experience.

They are also frequently driving too fast on bad roads, the equipment doesn't belong to them, and if it breaks, who cares?


Myself, I'll put it in 4wd on almost any dirt road of any length. I figure the stuff should be used and lubricated to keep it healthy.

I agree.

[rmarz]

I don't believe the average agent has even basic off road driving skills. Certainly some of them already knew how when they joined from military or civilian experience.

They are also frequently driving too fast on bad roads, the equipment doesn't belong to them, and if it breaks, who cares?



I agree.


The basic training new agents receive is just that, basic. Once the agents are stationed it is up to the station or sector to add on that skill set, as new agents come from every walk of life with various skills.

Where I work agents are given more involved training, especially with the Rubicon model Jeeps and the lockers. There are agents that have gone to advanced training with contractors over the Rubicon Trail etc beyond what is OJT, but that is the exception due to the costs.

Most of these vehicles are 'hot swapped' meaning they are brought back to the station and another agent takes it out, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I think it is kind of hard to compare that type of use to a personally owned vehicle. Additionally these vehicles are used for 'response' on dirt roads ,again making the comparison between a Gov and pov difficult. There is no doubt in my mind that the abuses mentioned in the thread happen, however I offer that they are the exception and not the rule.

As far as new tires being used as a ‘drag’, I was not there and can only offer that any agent that would use a serviceable tire for a ‘drag’ would have his/her lunch eaten by the agent that was sidelined with an out of service vehicle that was down for a lack of tires. Another possible explanation may be that they were not Gov tires, to begin with.

So what vehicle is most appropriate for the job and operator variations? I can not answer that, but I have seen numerous prototype vehicles spend time on the line and then be whisked away for evaluation, so I patiently await that perfect for all task every operator type ride. Of course when that perfect vehicle hit’s the market I will be the first in line to pick one up.

As for the M-16’s ( M-4’s actually), they are only good if the operator can get to the fight…..and the roof mounted fifty calibers, well lets just say that those are the tools of our friends to the south.

[articulate]

Don't believe anything he says. That guy's a total poser.

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/blah.gif

-----Matt-----

I'm with you. Let's take him out back and beat the crap out of him. Oh! to think that no-good bastard is procreating now, too.




Border Patrol training:
Only a fraction of their job is handled on dirt roads; they learn an immense amount of Spanish, U.S. law, people skills, and enforcement. Additionally, and as of late, the National Guard is grading the trails in an effort to keep those roads as free of obstacles and as wide as possible.

Nevertheless, the agent I rode along with admitted that the Jeeps get trashed quickly because - like indicated above - they get swapped over to another agent quickly. Can't keep track of all the use and damage.

Although, I do recall the agent showing me a form he has to fill out and account for any existing damage.

[IXNAYXJ]

I'm with you. Let's take him out back and beat the crap out of him. Oh! to think that no-good bastard is procreating now, too.Wait, you're telling me he got someone to sleep with him? Amazing!

-----Matt-----

[rmarz]

Wait, you're telling me he got someone to sleep with him? Amazing!

-----Matt-----

Didn’t the procreation take place some time ago? I thought the baby was due in August?

[articulate]

Didn’t the procreation take place some time ago? I thought the baby was due in August?
Yo! She's arrived. (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6888)

[rmarz]

Yo! She's arrived. (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6888)


Well, I missed the mark on that one didn’t I? Congratulations from someone that has followed your page for a few years now, being there for ‘that’ moment is a life changing event. Simply wonderful.

[Signcutter21]

Man, I want one. Haven't seen any 07 models jeeps in AZ yet. Was in New Mexico and Texas this week and saw some a few on the roads. Thought it was really cool. The extra few inchs will make a huge difference in comfort level.

The new Border Patrol off road training in New Mexico is a course designed with the help of HUMMER. It is supposed to be decent training for the short time they get off road training. Years ago you were lucky to have to get out of the vehicle to lock the hubs on the county roads. As far as stations training the agents afterward, ...OTJ training.

M. Stephans, I enjoyed your write up in JPFreek too.