What year FJ80 is best?....

[Exrunner]

and what years came with lockers? I should say, dif lockers, not the center dif lock. So far, I know 94 and 95 did. Any other years? Also, What are your experiences with both the 4.0L and the 4.5L? Thanks a ton!:elkgrin:

[pskhaat]

I'll try to keep this short, but the 91-92 FJ80s are those with the 4.0 litre but did NOT come with axle diff locks. 93-97 FZJ80s had the 4.5l and had the option of axle diff locks.

My personal experience leads me to believe that the 91-92 FJ80s are a better expedition platform/trail rig, the engine shares many components with past generations of cruisers and are easily sourced. They are `easy' to adapt carburetors, non-US and bad-gasoline (manual dial) distributors, manual trannies and part time transfer cases to them, etc, et al. People dislike them because they are tractor engines and like all early Cruisers, not the fastest on the planet, and they can be obtained for a good price. I have a thread in here that lists all the benefits in my book of these.

The 93-97 FZJ80s got a bigger and more computer-complex engine. It's a great engine, really, but doesn't share components with earlier generations. They are known to have heater block hose and head gasket issues. Parts are pricey and may be harder to source at times. However, it is much more highway friendly.

To sum quickly, if my life depended on it or if I would travel to Mexico | Central/South America, I'd take a 91-92 FJ80 hands down.

[Exrunner]

awesome info...thanks a lot:jumping:


oh, and if you can find it, could you post your thread?

[cruiseroutfit]

...My personal experience leads me to believe that the 91-92 FJ80s are a better expedition platform/trail rig, the engine shares many components with past generations of cruisers and are easily sourced. They are `easy' to adapt carburetors, non-US and bad-gasoline (manual dial) distributors, manual trannies and part time transfer cases to them, etc, et al. People dislike them because they are tractor engines and like all early Cruisers, not the fastest on the planet, and they can be obtained for a good price. I have a thread in here that lists all the benefits in my book of these....

I would have to disagree slightly... While the 3FE (88'-92') is a great engine, it was VERY short lived and has VERY few components that interchange with the earlier 2F (74'-87') engine. In addition, the 91-92' 80's series are a semi-float rear axle, drum brakes, as opposed to the later FF & disc brake axles. The 1FZ (93'-97') motor is extremely reliable, however it may fall victim to bad gas as you mentioned (however the 3FE is even more prone to failure).

The 91-92 FJ80's can be sourced MUCH cheaper than the later FZJ80's, so adding the full-float and lockers could easily be done in a budget. The OEM locker setups are rather rare (~5-10% of the 93-97' had them)...

My 2 cents... :D

[60seriesguy]

Another slight correction: in the US, the 3FE was indeed 88-92, but around the world, the 3F debuted in 8/84 and stayed around until 8/92.

I have to say that I don't see much difference in terms of expedition reliability between a 3FE and a 1FZE. Both are electronically controlled, both are fuel injected, both have complex systems that could theoretically strand you in Central/South America. But at the same time, both are typical Land Cruiser engines, overbuilt and designed for primitive conditions and rudimentary maintenance.

With the prices of the 80 series Land Cruiser what they are in the US, I'd look for a later-model FZJ80 (denotes the 1FZE engine, so 93-97) and I would focus on getting the best overall conditions. Factory lockers would be a bonus but not a deal-breaker for me, I'd rather get a super-nice one with no lockers than a so-so one with lockers. ARB's are easily retrofitted, and with the prices of FZJ80's being what they are, you can build a NICE expedition rig for under $20K.

[pskhaat]

While the 3FE (88'-92') is a great engine, it was VERY short lived and has VERY few components that interchange with the earlier 2F


Engine mounts, some accessory brackets and accessories (possible), rocker cover, distributor, cam?, bellhousings, starters, even a latter model 2F shortblock can be put under the 3F-E. Not everything, no, but some good emergency parts stuff.

In my book, an FJ80 with carb'd 2F, 5spd, part time tcase would be close to perfect expedition rig (okay, maybe a 2H instead of 2F).

:)

[cruiseroutfit]

Engine mounts, some accessory brackets and accessories (possible), rocker cover, distributor, cam?, bellhousings, starters, even a latter model 2F shortblock can be put under the 3F-E. Not everything, no, but some good emergency parts stuff.

In my book, an FJ80 with carb'd 2F, 5spd, part time tcase would be close to perfect expedition rig (okay, maybe a 2H instead of 2F).

:)

Motor mounts are different (3F's are offset, F&2F are linear), dizzy different, cam different, rocker cover different.

Are 1FZ parts that rare? I know of several parts motors here in town, and have had one myself that I couldn't get rid of to save my live... Motor mounts are cheap, rocker covers don't go bad... See where I am coming from?

Ever swap out a short-block in an emergency? :confused: If you need 3FE parts they are VERY easy to get these days (so many 4BT/1FZ swaps in the works)... I wouldn't waste the time considering a 2FE for the sake of swapability...

Though a 2F bellhousing will bolt up to an 3FE, it is not the same one as a 3FE bellhousing (auto-integrated...).

Don't get me wrong, I love the 3FE (or 2FE stuff too), but it isn't a 1FZ, and unless you actually plan to swap a 5 speed (which can be done with a H151F), then the 1FZ would be a superior motor IMHO. I am putting a 2FE setup into my 40, because I already have a 10K 2F block & a H55F, if I didn't, I would go with a 1FZ, they are extremely reliable (could be argued more than the weaker 3FE).

My 4 cents... :D

[cruiseroutfit]

...In my book, an FJ80 with carb'd 2F, 5spd, part time tcase would be close to perfect expedition rig (okay, maybe a 2H instead of 2F)....

I can agree diesel, but the 2H is a dog compared to even a 2F IMHO, gas milage is great, but that much fab and money does NOT warrant a 2H (or even 12HT). Still I think a FF rear with disc brakes is still a major factor for a heavily laden 80 series. 5 speed & part time T-case are a must.

The old owner of Cruiser Outfitters (Darrell Noorda) built an very expedition ready 45 Series much as you described, 2H (converted to 12HT), H55F, split case, FF rear, OEM cable lockers F&R... Great truck, I loved Cruisin' in that thing... :D

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/content_images/july2/Cruzr-34.jpg

[Exrunner]

you guys are saying that a 5 speed and a part time case are a must....Did they even make the 93-97 witha 5 spd? Cuz I have never seen one....also, they are all full time 4 wheel drive right? So how do you put in a part time tcase, or I guess, WHAT part time case do you put in?

[pskhaat]

Motor mounts are different

But the 2F and 3F share the mount and bolt pattern. The other things are different, but compatible (I had to source quite a few 2F parts for my 3FJ40 conversion).



Ever swap out a short-block in an emergency?

Not me personally, but I know several folks who had issues and had to have motor replacements. Some of this is due to bad drivers, no oil, etc, but it does happen. Often? absolutely not.



Though a 2F bellhousing will bolt up to an 3FE

But if you decide you want to put in a manual transmission, that comes in very handy! H151f's (as you stated) are pretty hard to come by stateside. An H42 H55f on the other hand quite easy.



I am putting a 2FE setup into my 40, because I already have a 10K 2F block & a H55F

My 3FJ40 is a 3F-E against the original H42. It's THE motor for a 40, you'll love it if you havn't yet already done it. Other than a 3B/12HT can't imagine any better gasser in a 40.

[pskhaat]

you guys are saying that a 5 speed and a part time case are a must
A must? depends. Like I said, if I were taking a year off to travel the Americas I'd put 'em in. You can roll start a manual tranny, not the case on an auto. You can also marginally save some gas/wear on part-time tcase.

Are those things worth the $? It's up to each individual I guess. I personally do not like auto transmissions even in traffic, but that's just me. If a 5spd was available easily for my FZJ80, I'd do that mod. I guess my point is that if a 4|5spd manual tranny (for instance) is important to you to have on an expedition-type rig, a 91-92 FJ80 is a simpler and cheaper swap for that kind of stuff.



So how do you put in a part time tcase, or I guess, WHAT part time case do you put in?
Part-time tcases are reasonably available (from an FJ60 for instance) that go with the 4spd|5spd manual tranny. There are kits also available to make the full-time tcase in an 80 act like a part-time tcase.

[pskhaat]

built an very expedition ready 45 Series much as you described, 2H (converted to 12HT), H55F, split case, FF rear, OEM cable lockers F&R

That is one SWEET rig!

[upcruiser]

My 2 cents on the matter.

First off, I own a '92. When I picked it out I was shopping for a primo example. As stated earlier, choose a good one. There are LOTS of 80's out there, so you can afford to be choosy. I liked the idea of the FJ80's personally for many of the reasons described earlier in this thread. They are mechanically simple, they are familiar (former FJ60 owner), and it seemed (based upon all of the owner's accounts that I read) that it had a slight edge reliability-wise. I wasn't hell bent on highway power, if I was, I would have leaned towards a '93 plus at the time. I didn't want a leather interior either and the FJ80's are more easily found in cloth. Its been an awesome truck for me. I picked it up with 115,000 miles on it in 2001 and have 195,000 on it now. I will keep it forever. I used for long wheeling/expedition trips, farming appliance, doing carpentry work, road trips, and as my primary driver up till a last year. I've driven it across the country several times and in the mountains as well. On the freeway, heavily laden with gear on the roof and my lift and tires 65mph is about all you want to make it do. In the mountains in CO I can do any pass without dropping below 45mph. Its pretty slow, but I'm not in a rush when I'm driving it so its not an issue whatsoever.

The '93+ do have some desirable features though. The FF rear axle, 32" tires stock (although on 16" rims which is a minus in my book), rear disc brakes, optional lockers (although pretty rare), and more power while getting better mileage. There are debates over which tranny is better in the 80 line but from what I've read they both are great. The FJ80 and earlier FZJ 80's share a tranny with Toyota's 4 ton commercial trucks which gives me peace of mind to know that it is waaay overbuilt for what I use it for.

In general though, I absolutely love my '92 and Expecially with the differences in price today between the FJ and FZF models, would consider another one. With that said though, if you do commute alot with it, live in a mountainous area, or like to open it up on the highway the fZJ would be more your style.

[/Ramble off]:D

[Exrunner]

no no....none of you guys are rambling....I appreciate all the helpful opinions and stuff....keep it up...thanks, Alex

[fj803fe]

I agree with you Kurt as well as some od Pskhaat's points.

There are soooo many combinations possible-but we are off topic I believe.

Out of the box US 80 series.

best year??? They are all "good" benefits and drawbacks to each.

93-97

1FZ good engine, as said. A bit more difficult for shadetree mechanic work than the 3fe-but still a solid Toyota Engine. Better highway manners than the 3fe IMO. More prone to Head Gasget failure than other LC engines, Block coolant hose has a nasty tendancy to fail and it is a PITA to change out. Spark plugs are in the oddest of alignment situations-but this is nit-picky.

ABS, driver and pssngr air bags-turing off the pssngr air bag is a bioootch

Rear Full Float Axle-nice, strong, worry free if shaft breakage occurs (i.e. you aren't going to look in your side mirror and see your tire/axle wandering ever more so slightly outboard of the vehicle)

Rear Disk-good braking power though I have never had a feeling that my 35" tired 92 80 with drums was bad (after LSPBV adjustment). ALSO, some poverty package 93s came with semi-float rears and drum brakes, no ABS.

91-92

Well I own one....so I love it.

3fe=slow in front of a slush box, but a VERY easy engine to work on IMO. can have head gasget failure but less often than 1FZ. Has an oil galley journal plug just behind and above the #5(?) spark plug port. This has been known to "blow" out in HOT situations and can lead to a complete loss of oil pressure and oil. However, it is easily fixed and most will do this as a PM.-its one of those "its actually few and far between but you hear about it alot on any 3fe list" type of things.

EFI relay can get very hot and go out-causing much grief and head scratching unles you know the symptoms. But increasing the Wires from 12 ga(?) to 10 ga (?) can eliminate the problem-did this a few years back...

No ABS, no air bags.

Semi Float rear axle-more prone to breakage-but every LC I've owned has had a semi float rear with no breakage. Easy to access the ring/pinion/carrier on a semi float-but that is nitpicky.

[Exrunner]

a lot of great info here guys....thanks a ton.

[ShottsCruisers]

The best 80? It's the one you own! :victory:

[Mike S]

you guys are saying that a 5 speed and a part time case are a must....Did they even make the 93-97 witha 5 spd? Cuz I have never seen one....also, they are all full time 4 wheel drive right? So how do you put in a part time tcase, or I guess, WHAT part time case do you put in?

There is a clear divide between the 60 series and the 80 series. Given that, I'll answer your question to the best of my ability.

"...you guys are saying that a 5 speed and a part time case are a must....Did they even make the 93-97 with a 5 spd?"

Yes, Toyota made the 80 series witha 5 speed. They did not import this truck into the US. All US 80 series trucks had the automatic. The 5 speed manual tranny that was supplied on the non-US 80 series was the 15X series, which had little in common with the H41, H42, and H55 transmissions used in the 60 series cruisers. The 15X trannies are not compatible with the 60 series split case - which, IMHO, is the best part time 4WD transfer case offered in the Toyota line. The 15X series TCs mate to the transfer case used in the 80 series - full time 4WD.

The answer to the problem of simplicity, manual tranny, part 4WD is the FJ60. This is a carb engine that is very simple, uses any gas, and is very reliable. Most people who decide to take extended trips south of the US border, given a choice in Landcruisers, pick an FJ60 in good condition. The BJ60 (4 cyl.) and HJ60 (6 cul) are also popular for Diesel lovers. but have less "GO". than many like.

As to whether the FZ is a better engine, it employs dual ovehead cams and computer conrolled FI. It is a 4.5L engine, and makes significantly more HP and torque than the 2F or 3FE. The 3F was also available (non-US) in a carb'd manual tranny version.

Net - net is: decide what meets your needs and buy that, but be clear on how you intend to use the vehicle. For expeditions, the FJ60 with an H55F transmission would be my hands down choice.

Th ebest 80? The early 80 series were equipped with a serious HD 1-ton automatic transmission. These would be my choice in an 80.

M

[Exrunner]

thanks mike....which auto tranny in the earlier 80's is a one-ton tranny? and also, would you rather have that tranny, or the full float rearend of the the latter 80's???

[Mike S]

thanks mike....which auto tranny in the earlier 80's is a one-ton tranny? and also, would you rather have that tranny, or the full float rearend of the the latter 80's???

The first US Landcruiser with an auto tranny was the FJ62 - it had the A440 automatic - these units have given good service. The '93 and '94 FZJ had the HD auto, but I do not know the designation. I believe that the FZJ80's used tow (and perhaps three) different automatic transmissions during that model run ('93 to '97). I would have to hunt up the designations of these transmissions.

Any of these transmissions are expensive to repair/replace.

M

[pskhaat]

the full float rearend of the the latter 80's???

I have heard-of very few cases where the semi-floater has failed. The US got the semi-floater for YEARS prior to 1993. It is also interesting to note that the 100 series LCs are BACK to semi-float axles.

Theoretically, FF is nice, but in my own personal experience, I havn't seen a semi-float have any problems. fj803fe lurks on this board and uses his 1992 LC FJ80 in a commercial off-road environment (his job) day-in-and-day-out on some of the worst roads in our nation. Atop that he rock-crawls with the same vehicle and he seems to have more guts than brains when so doing; he's had no issues whatsoever loaded or otherwise; nearly 200k miles of off-road on his SF.

What I'm saying is that :) I guess I might not base my 80 series purchase on SF vs. FF.

[Exrunner]

thanks guys....this is def. the most knowledgable board I belong to boys....keep it up

[cruiseroutfit]

I have heard-of very few cases where the semi-floater has failed.

Want to see a pile of them... broke 3 myself before going with a FF. Not its not "if" I break a shaft, but "when" I break a shaft I can still get back to camp, not happening with a C-clip axle.


What I'm saying is that :) I guess I might not base my 80 series purchase on SF vs. FF.

Completely agree there... there are alot of other things to look for before the FF (clean body, low miles, other accessories)

[pskhaat]

Want to see a pile of them

No kidding? :Wow1: Kurt, in what kind of situations were you where the SF failed you?

[locrwln]

The best part of the FF axle is the servicability. When a seal goes on the SF axle, you either have to have a press or pay someone to do it, and you might as well replace the bearings. With the FF, it's like the front and most anyone can work on it, anywhere. There is a certain comfort with that. I've had the seals go out on my SF D44 in my jeep and the rear SF axle of my 4runner, had to buy new bearings and seals for both sides and have them pressed on at a shop, because I don't have a press at home. Much cheaper on the FF, all you need is a hammer, punch and a seal driver if you are really set up.

[upcruiser]

Interesting how different the outcome of this question is here on this board then say on... Mud.:jump:

[Exrunner]

how would it be on mud?

[upcruiser]

In general, there seems to be a bit more dissing on the 3FE powered 80's. Alot of the "need more power" mentality which makes me think that they don't enjoy offroading in the same manner that I do. :p

[cruiseroutfit]

No kidding? :Wow1: Kurt, in what kind of situations were you where the SF failed you?

Rocks, rocks, rocks... A couple were here in Utah, one was in the Little Sluice on the Rubicon, CA.

They are very strong axles though, for a longe range trip style wheeler, I wouldn't hesitate to run one. But after seeing a handful of them break in a single trip, I had to switch.

Of course as mentioned previously, a 80 FF axle easy pretty easy to come up with, don't let a SF sway the deal by any means.

[Exrunner]

There is definitely a different vibe on Mud than here. And I hope this doesnt offend anyone, but Pirate is worse...Im not a big fan of them. This is a good, well organized forum...much better in my opinion....anyway, back to topic....

So will a FF from a later 80 bolt up to an earlier 80 that came with a SF?

[locrwln]

So will a FF from a later 80 bolt up to an earlier 80 that came with a SF?

As far as I know, it does. The only thing is that the rear discs brakes are too big for 15" rims, so you need a minimum of 16" rims to clear the calipers.

[pskhaat]

So will a FF from a later 80 bolt up to an earlier 80 that came with a SF?
Yes it will. As locrwln stated, the rear calipers require 16" wheels to clear. There are ABS sensors IIRC on the FF which you simply would just ignore on an FJ80.

I have compared my FF and fj803fe's SF 80 axle and the pumpkin/pinion flange offset et al seem to be within the tolerances of my tape measure, so if they're different at all, they're VERY close.