Locker Talk............

[Scenic WonderRunner]

How about a place for some Locker Talk?

I found this video over at YotaTech (http://www.zippyvideos.com/5217773523249606/may_24_2005_harrison/) which gives perfect examples of why we need them!

Totally tricked out rigs that are stopped by the most simple off camber spots!

Any input?

What works for you?

Feel free to share other videos you have....or find.

[cruiseroutfit]

I happen to be a fan of the ARB Air Lockers... ;)

Best of both worlds, open when you want it (road, ice, etc), and locked in the rocks, mud, etc...

Somewhat depends on your application, OEM options exist in some cases and can be extremely reliable solutions...

[goodtimes]

Selectable lockers are simply the best of both worlds. The price also reflects it. Anyone priced a ARB lately? Then add in the cost of a compressor, plumbing, install, and install kit...yikes! I like the E-lockers toyota is using, and have yet to form an opinion of the e-lockers being developed (in part) by GM and Eaton. They may turn out to be a good option as well. For a street driven vehicle, I would strongly suggest a selectable locker. No need to compromise your driving comfort to get a locker...you can have both!

My jeep has air lockers at both ends, as provided by Daimler/Chrysler. The rear has a limited slip mechanism integrated into it (as in, either limited slip or completely locked). Very smooth in operation on/off the road, only uses 6psi to operate (as opposed to ARB's 80psi), which gives you very quiet operation of the compressors, and less chance of leaks because of the low pressure. The downside is that sometimes it takes a few seconds to lock or unlock.

[BajaXplorer]

Frankly, I only watched the video once, but it looked like they had not aired down to me. And I wonder if they were in high range as well. If you don't air down you have to expect some traction problems, but thats a choice you make. It certainly did not look difficult.
All this speculation aside, lockers are great, of course.
BX

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Frankly, I only watched the video once, but it looked like they had not aired down to me. And I wonder if they were in high range as well. If you don't air down you have to expect some traction problems, but thats a choice you make. It certainly did not look difficult.
All this speculation aside, lockers are great, of course.
BX

It looked to me like the very first black 4Runner has no lockers. Because when he came to the first obsticle he started the "wheel hop" as front and rear went off camber. I get this exact wheel hop with my 4Runner when off camber.....but I do pretty good being creative and just picking another line real fast.

My opinion is that if he even had just a rear locker, he would have crawled right up even if he had a front wheel in the air......but I've never driven a 4x4 with a locker so what the heck do I know!

Hence.......the "Locker Talk"...!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Selectable lockers are simply the best of both worlds. The price also reflects it. Anyone priced a ARB lately? Then add in the cost of a compressor, plumbing, install, and install kit...yikes! I like the E-lockers toyota is using, and have yet to form an opinion of the e-lockers being developed (in part) by GM and Eaton. They may turn out to be a good option as well. For a street driven vehicle, I would strongly suggest a selectable locker. No need to compromise your driving comfort to get a locker...you can have both!

My jeep has air lockers at both ends, as provided by Daimler/Chrysler. The rear has a limited slip mechanism integrated into it (as in, either limited slip or completely locked). Very smooth in operation on/off the road, only uses 6psi to operate (as opposed to ARB's 80psi), which gives you very quiet operation of the compressors, and less chance of leaks because of the low pressure. The downside is that sometimes it takes a few seconds to lock or unlock.


That's exactly the problem I'm having "GoodTimes"............I wouldn't want the ARB install to cost half the value of my entire truck!:rolleyes:

So my plan is to find a used Toyota Tacoma rear 3rd member with electric locker and have it fitted to my truck. $200 to $300 parts.......$200 to $300 labor...?
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[BajaXplorer]

SW,
I do have the rear e-locker in my Tacoma and it has made a big difference at times. Your plan to swap out a diff sounds good. There have been so many Tacomas produced in the 4x4 and prerunner now for a number of years so locating one should become easier as vehicles head for the wrecking yards.
My point on the air is that many times it is traction acquired from lower psi that get you through even without a locker. A bouncing wheel can be an indication of too much air, less traction, so that tire (the one with the least amount of traction on that axle) keeps breaking loose.
If I hear of any locked axles, I'll keep you in mind.
BX

[Scenic WonderRunner]

BX.....

Thanks for keeping a look out for an elock 3rd.

I agree with you about tire pressure.............although no amount of lower tire pressure can compensate for loss of traction :smilies27 with an open differential with a wheel in the air.

The wheel in the air will spin..........and the wheel on the ground that really needs to move and have traction, will just sit there.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I have manual HUBS..........

What are the pro's and con's of putting a "Lunch Box" locker like the "Aussie" on my front end?

With the manual hubs..........my front locker then would only engage at the wheels while hubs are locked while I'm off road.

[Justin]

The rear locker has become a benchmark that in my opinion, Toyota set for the compact/midsize truck market...(unless I can be proven wrong). Though many owners of the TRD package will never really find themselves in situations needing the locker (aside from the forum members here), it's good to know it's there just in case. Often times I intentionally try to pick lines that require the locker just to experience the benifit of owning one.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Justin.....

I know I want a rear locker....and hope to go with a TRD electric rear third.

I'm trying to figure out a solution for my front (so I have all 4 wheels locked) without breaking the bank. That's why I asked the question in the above post.

So...........can a "lunch box" locker be put up front in a 1st gen 4Runner with manual hubs.........without totally messing up things?

I know selectable is always the most desired.......but will this work? The Aussie would only engage the wheels when I lock the hubs.....right? Is this a bad idea?

[Justin]

Though I am not familiar with the "Lunch Box" locker, in my opinion I wouldn't mind if when I engaged my manual hubs the front diff was locked... that is if I owned a truck with manual locking hubs... I suppose it comes down to the cost as you mentioned.

Correct me if I a wrong, but one downfall could possibly be increased turning difficulty?

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Correct me if I a wrong, but one downfall could possibly be increased turning difficulty?

I think that is correct. But isn't that true for any kind of locker one puts up front? I'm just looking for a reasonable cost alternative to the ARB, so I don't have to spend thousands!

Here is a link for the "Aussie Locker (http://www.offroadlockers.com/home.php/AUSSIE/.html)".

Aussie Locker details and info page (http://www.offroadlockers.com/works.php/TMf0762a/8382/.html)

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I sent an email to "Aussie Locker" today regarding.....putting an Aussie up front.

Here is their reply............


<<<Thank you for considering the Aussie Locker for your 4Runner.

We sell a lot of XD27527 Aussie Lockers for the front IFS diff in 4Runners. The benefit is that a front locker has minimal impact on highway driving but when you put it into 4WD and lock your hubs you have an incredible improvement in traction performance.

As to the con's, we do not recommend driving in 4WD with a front locker on an icy highway. If you have manual hubs you can run one wheel "free" and the other "locked" for better handling. Also in some instances you may find that the wheel will want to center but most customers find this occassional mode acceptable due to the traction enhancement they get with the Aussie Locker.

The XD27527 is in stock for next business day shipment.

Let us know if you have any additional questions.>>>

[cruiseroutfit]

I think that is correct. But isn't that true for any kind of locker one puts up front? I'm just looking for a reasonable cost alternative to the ARB, so I don't have to spend thousands...

Not the locker you are tying to find an alternative for... with the ARB, you simply turn it off when you need to turn, lock it back up when you need the traction. :D

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I understand how "ARB" works..........are you trying to sell an......."ARB"..........?

[Justin]

SWR...after reading the details on the Aussie Locker it seems to have many benefits that may suit your needs. After thier feedback and the info you found on the site, my next step would be to see if you can find anyone who has bought and used one on a similar vehicle (86-95 IFS) to see what thier experience has been. In Theory it sounds practical. Again, as always it all boils down to how much $$ you want drop.

[cruiseroutfit]

I understand how "ARB" works..........are you trying to sell an......."ARB".........

Your comment eluded otherwise. Some don't realise the benefits of selectable lockers, including the ability to un-bind the front axle in turning. ;)

Not trying to sell anything, just trying to remove popular stereotypes as previously mentioned. ;)

You might know what an ARB does, but your statement might confuse the next guy that reads the thread. As a point we do sell ARB's, as well as just about every other type of locker as we have for 15+ years now... Not sure why you had to edit your post to point that out?

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Justin..........

Thanks for your input.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Who is running a "Lunch Box Locker" (aka Lockrite, Aussie, Detroit, etc.).........and what have been the pro's and con's for you?
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[BMAN]

I run ARB's in my 40. That said, I wouldn't be without them. I like the option of selectability on the fly. With my wheelbase, when i start to loose traction the rig will start to hop a little. The fact that I can reach down and at the flip of a switch gain traction to continue on my way is invaluable to me.

My 60 on the otherhand is equipped with lockrights at both axles. I am yet to drive this truck but once completed it will take a very short period of time for me to decide if I like them or not. Because this truck will see a whole lot more road miles than the 40 ever will I tend to believe that I will prefer the ARB's and have pretty much decided that if this is the case a swap will happen sooner than later.

I have a lockright for sale right now that was in a box of stuff that I got with the 40, unfortunately it won't work for your application.

My vote... selectable.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

BMAN!

Thanks for taking the time to give your input!

ARB Locker at Work............

http://www.4wheelparts.com/4wp/images/imagebank/arb/arb_animatedlocker_a.gif

[xiero]

First post here - very informative site...

My take is as follows:

I've had an Aussie in the rear of one of my vehicles - loved it. I'm in the process of building an FJ40 now, and I bought 2 Aussies. I've researched this a lot, and as is typical, those who have an Aussie in the front swear by it, those with selectables, do as well.

I understand turning can be interesting, but it is possible, and you can play with locking/unlocking the hubs - one at a time, or both.

The common advice is, if you can afford selectable, get it, if not, go with an auto. My decision was to go auto up front, if I don't like it, I'll be calling Kurt for an ARB. Aussies are EASY to get rid of, without much of a loss - they are a great locker.

I'm planning to install mine this week, after I have, I'll post up with my impressions.

Again, great site!

:beer:

[Scenic WonderRunner]

First post here - very informative site...

My take is as follows:

I've had an Aussie in the rear of one of my vehicles - loved it. I'm in the process of building an FJ40 now, and I bought 2 Aussies. I've researched this a lot, and as is typical, those who have an Aussie in the front swear by it, those with selectables, do as well.

I understand turning can be interesting, but it is possible, and you can play with locking/unlocking the hubs - one at a time, or both.

The common advice is, if you can afford selectable, get it, if not, go with an auto. My decision was to go auto up front, if I don't like it, I'll be calling Kurt for an ARB. Aussies are EASY to get rid of, without much of a loss - they are a great locker.

I'm planning to install mine this week, after I have, I'll post up with my impressions.

Again, great site!

:beer:


Yeah! ......another Aussie Lover!

Thanks for your input.

I look forward to hearing how they work for you!

..........Plus!.....you can't beat those Aussie Women!:ylsmoke:

[awalter]

[QUOTE=xiero]First post here - very informative site...
My decision was to go auto up front, if I don't like it, I'll be calling Kurt for an ARB.


I take it by this comment your in the SoCal area?

[xiero]

[QUOTE=xiero]First post here - very informative site...
My decision was to go auto up front, if I don't like it, I'll be calling Kurt for an ARB.


I take it by this comment your in the SoCal area?

Nope.

Ut, Kurt is only a 20 minute drive. :D

[Scenic WonderRunner]

FYI..........

Yesterday I spoke with the "top dog" in San Diego for diff's/gear's/lockers, etc.

Mark at Pro Gear (http://www.progeardifferentials.com/index.html)

I explained to Mark about my wanting at least a rear locker and asked about the pro's and con's of an Aussie and the like. He put me up a few notches in his book when I told him I was an ex big rig truck driver. He felt I would have no problem dealing with the oddities that a lunchbox locker creates.

He recomended that I do NOT get an ARB system due in part to the maint. issue's, among others. He does not like them.

Then I asked him about installing a new TRD electric locking 3rd member in my 1st gen 4Runner. He said he could do it.....but because of the modifications needed to do it, this could cause problems down the road.

Then he sounded excited when he told me I should just get a complete axle/ locking 3rd out of a newer Toyota truck......and just install the whole axle on my truck.

Some negatives I have found in using a newer axle complete could be......

1. Axle width is wider than my current stock 1st gen. axle?

2. Spring/shock perches or whole suspension is different?

..........Any Thoughts?


Mark likes the idea of using the Toyota Electric locker and says this is the best way to go.



Mark at Pro Gear sounds like a great guy.........he told me that he even does most of this type of work for Jim at ProTrux. Give him a call if you have any questions.......he is very friendly and helpful!

[Ron B]

there's a bunch of info on the Detroit (just bought one for my truck -- not installed yet) on www.flashoffroad.com, click on "tech info" then look under "drivetrain". Should answer some questions. Enjoy

Ron B

[Desertdude]

He recomended that I do NOT get an ARB system due in part to the maint. issue's, among others.

Did he explain this maint issue in any detail that you can share?


:::

I noticed Inchworm (http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=1f792678aefb26887075cc2cc5bca256) has electric lockers ready for install

:::

[cruiseroutfit]

Did he explain this maint issue in any detail that you can share?...

Ditto!

And what modifications to fit the OEM E-Locker are going to give you future problems?

Just trying to stay informed... :gunt:

[Boston Mangler]

Hey Mark

Yes, a rear locker will make a world of difference.

Here are my somewhat biased opinions:

I have installed and wheeled with quite a few rigs using the "LockRight" lunchbox locker, worked great, super easy install, very cheap! These work very well on rigs with 35" or smaller tires!

I have wheeled with MANY folks with ARBs that are always messing with them on the trail because a solenoid is stuck, of the line is leaking or the orings are leaking, etc..... Sure theyre are people that run them for years with zero problems, but everytime i run with some guys using them, they are always having to mess with them. Plus the intial costs and such is way too much in my opinion based on what else is out there!

I just got done "Retrofitting" the toyota factory rear locker in my rig and i am completely sold on it! It uses all factory parts, so it has the rock solid toyota reliabilty that we love so much!

For YOUR particular situation, i would pick up an aussie locker, or lock right no slip and we can install it in under 2 hours (i have installed several already) and use the $ you save or other mods!

OR if you wanted to spend some more $, i would find a new (or used) used tacoma locking 3rd member and retro it to your exising housing so you can keep your track width the same (if that is important). If keeping your track width stock isnt important (i personally would prefer a wider stance) then i would locate a whole entire locked tacoma rear end assembly and bolt it in and go! You might need to relocate the perches, but that is simple!

Depending on which route you take we can do most of the work in my driveway to save you some costs as well.

Check out my writeup for the work i did on my elocker install:
http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/elockerinstall.htm

[calamaridog]

Mark,

I think Kevin is onto something here. I was just looking at the Powertrax No-Slip for your application. The cost is very reasonable for around $400.

I would be happy to help you and Kevin install that bad boy.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks Kevin and Bryan for your input!

Here is a video that Roy "bluetrooper" took while out at Table Mtn. last sat.
This was a pretty step climb on lose dirt. The guys with lockers and LSD made it up with ease. The video does not do justice to how steep this was. But it does show that I sure need a locker or two!:rolleyes:

Scenic WonderRunner Table Mtn. Climb Video (http://www.royjenkins.com/images/060204_inkohpah/mov00444.mpg)

I'll let you know if and when I make my final choice.....and thanks so much for offering to help out!

Kevin..........I found an 8 Ton Hitch out on the trail Sunday at the bottom of a steep wash. I will gladly trade you this for your help at your garage. If you can't use it......use it as currency for something for your truck!:elkgrin:

Another thought..........I guess I could just do the "Aussie Mod" while waiting (because I can get it real fast) to locate a TRD E~Locker 3rd Member. We can start the WonderRunner locker mod/assessment thread. Then later if I want to upgrade.....I can always sell it.

[+ d]

Mark,

given the advice here, and over in my thread, i am 90% settled on the PowerTrax NoSlip. Chris Shontz posted a pretty informative post, with some links to articles that he wrote, that is worth checking out.

I am intrigued by the aussie locker (thanks for the link) because its so inexpensive (over $100 less), but i am not sure how to really perform any sort of comparison with the powertrax. Both are the self claimed "smoothest"!

Also, i forgot to mention to you last saturday that there is another apparently well reputed axle place in town, MIT in el cajon 619-579-7727. i've noticed a few of the offroad mags will come down from LA to use these guys...

[chet]

I have a lor-rite in the rear of my sidekick. I have had real detroits and ARB's int he past. the loc-rite is the easiest but also the loudest and biggest pain on the pavement. It is by no means smooth! The detroits were smooth I never knew they were in there until I needed them.

I agree with the ARB comments. They are failure prone based on the air lines, solenoids etc. I liked mine but hated the problems. One guy in our club has a new detroit electrac and it is pretty cool. Its a ltd slip when off and a full locker when on.

[Boston Mangler]

Thanks Kevin and Bryan for your input!

No Sweat Man!



I'll let you know if and when I make my final choice.....and thanks so much for offering to help out!

No Sweat, with whatever you choose, we can install it! I have done many of each! :)


Kevin..........I found an 8 Ton Hitch out on the trail Sunday at the bottom of a steep wash. I will gladly trade you this for your help at your garage. If you can't use it......use it as currency for something for your truck!:elkgrin:


Uhhh, no, first off, you dont need to trade me or give me anything to pay for help with your truck. Help is free! :D Second off, who on earth needs an 8 Ton hitch? :D


Another thought..........I guess I could just do the "Aussie Mod" while waiting (because I can get it real fast) to locate a TRD E~Locker 3rd Member. We can start the WonderRunner locker mod/assessment thread. Then later if I want to upgrade.....I can always sell it.

Excellent idea! However, i will bet you that after installing it and seeing how well it performs and how cheap it is, i bet ya keep it! Also Mark, the No Slip that D+ speaks of is actually even better then the Aussie Locker and is the same install!

My .02

[Boston Mangler]

Also, i forgot to mention to you last saturday that there is another apparently well reputed axle place in town, MIT in el cajon 619-579-7727. i've noticed a few of the offroad mags will come down from LA to use these guys...

Cmon Dave, i thought we were all friends here man! Why would you steer our buddy Mark to one of the worst places to have work done in Southern Call! :D

PM for details if you care, or just post up on JeepsUnlimited.com in the Wrangler section, MANY will complain of work done to their rig that need to be brought back in for "Adjustments" 2 or 3 times to get it working properly!!

Ok, you got me all riled up now! I had an AX5 tranny rebuilt by them for $800 after the install it wouldnt go into 5th, they claimed i broke it, installing it, um yeah, smoke some more crack!!

One of my good friends Joe had ARB's installed in his YJ wranger there front and rear, front leaked, got it fixed, the rear ring gear FELL off and grenaded because they forgot to locktite the ring bolts! They fixed it for free but his rig was down for almost a month!

My cousin had his rear end and Tcase rebuilt by them in his 68 Bronco! Within a week the rear end leaked and the tcase was 2x as noisy as before! None of this is "Through The Mill" rumor, this is all 1st hand knowledge!

I wouldnt give that place my biz if they were giving away free ARB's to all!

Sorry to go on such a negative rant, but they are the devil! :mad:

[cruiseroutfit]

Cmon Dave, i thought we were all friends here man! Why would you steer our buddy Mark to one of the worst places to have work done in Southern Call!

Out comes the truth... Now I know why you seem to have a bad taste towards ARB's. INSTALLER ERROR in almost every case. :ylsmoke:

Never had an ARB leave me stranded, I can't say that for the D60 E-locker I broke at Supercrawl III (and Carl broke at Supercrawl II)

Lockrights/Aussies are the best bang (literally) for the buck. They are easier on the budget than anything else, and a couple year warranty to boot.

[+ d]

...one of the worst places to have work done in Southern Cal...

i had no idea!!!
thanks for settin' me straight, they certainly charge enough that their work should be perfect! well, now i know. thanks kevin!

[+ d]

So where do you guys recommend getting a PowerTrax/NoSlip from? My first search turned up $365 at Rocky-Road.com (http://www.rocky-road.com/noslip.html).

[Boston Mangler]

So where do you guys recommend getting a PowerTrax/NoSlip from? My first search turned up $365 at Rocky-Road.com (http://www.rocky-road.com/noslip.html).

Rocky Road is a great outfit, i have bought lots of stuff from them. Also, Sams Offroad and MORE are both good too!

As for the install, we can do it in a driveway in under 2 hours.

[awalter]

Myself & others I know have used MIT & have been very pleased with the work. If all of their work was as bad as stated above they wouldn't stay in business long. They have been around for many years, they must be doing something right.

[durango_60]

So where do you guys recommend getting a PowerTrax/NoSlip from? My first search turned up $365 at Rocky-Road.com (http://www.rocky-road.com/noslip.html).

I recmmend you give Kurt @ Cruiser Outfitters a call. He's always giving helpful advice on the forum and his pricing is as good as anyone elses if not better. He specializs in yota's but I'm sure he could get you a locker for your jeep.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

So where do you guys recommend getting a PowerTrax/NoSlip from? My first search turned up $365 at Rocky-Road.com (http://www.rocky-road.com/noslip.html).

David......

I've seen the Rocky~Road website. I think that's the best price I have seen.

Maybe we should have a locker install party with unlimted chips and salsa for Kevin!!!!!!!!!!!!:sunflower

[Boston Mangler]

David......

I've seen the Rocky~Road website. I think that's the best price I have seen.

Maybe we should have a locker install party with unlimted chips and salsa for Kevin!!!!!!!!!!!!:sunflower

DEAL!

[chet]

check out randy's ring and pinion.

these are pretty good prices as well https://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/

[Boston Mangler]

Any updates Mark?

[blaze one]

well it turns out ( news to me ) that i have a factory Eaton Locker in my Blazer , axle code G80 with 3.73 gearing . Although i have yet to fully use this under the appropriate conditions , to give a fair opinion . I can say that it is very nice to drive around daily in non-offroad conditions , just thought i would put that out there so if anyone was wondering .

[datrupr]

I have the G80 in my Trooper as well, and while not a locker, it really does a good job of distributing the power properly to the rear wheels. And with some careful maniputation with the hand brake you can get almost 100% lock up from it. A great system if you ask me, and it does make driving around town a joy.;)

[blaze one]

yeah , it is not a True selectable locker , but good enough for me too , now only if my front end was strong enough to handle a selectable locker :(
I believe the Izuzu and and some chevrolet models share some parts , not sure though . it would be interesting to see if i could convert to a manual hub too .

[datrupr]

I know the hub conversion for the Trooper is pretty straight forward, but I do not know if the Blazer can be converted.