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robert
11-17-2011, 08:23 AM
So I've had an ARB bumper on the front of my '05 Tacoma for several years now and I keep meaning to add some attachment points to it, the kind I can put shackles on. Has anyone added any to theirs and if so what did you use? I've been looking at the Expedition Exchange ones as well as just welding some on but I'm not sure what would work best.

Ideas or suggestion?

4xdog
11-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Every ARB bullbar I've had was equipped with two reinforced eyes that take a shackle perfectly. Are those not on the Gen2 Tacoma bullbars?

Don

RMP&O
11-17-2011, 06:24 PM
If you add or modify the ones on it or it lacks some and you put your own on it....buff them up way over the stock configuration. The stock tow points are weak big time. If need be I can take pictures of mine showing why I think it is weak along with pictures of what is strong and will take abuse.

Palehorse1
11-17-2011, 08:47 PM
...If need be I can take pictures of mine showing why I think it is weak along with pictures of what is strong and will take abuse.

Yes please.

robert
11-18-2011, 10:56 AM
Every ARB bullbar I've had was equipped with two reinforced eyes that take a shackle perfectly. Are those not on the Gen2 Tacoma bullbars?

Don

Nope, the 2nd gen Taco bumper lack any eyes although they have slots for a hi-lift jack. Sometimes I wonder what the heck ARB is thinking- they get it so right on some models but other models things like eyes just seem to slip their mind. I'm sure they've got some reason, but darned if I can figure it out. For double lining you'd have to hook back to the stock locations and like the next poster, I'm not too keen on them.

robert
11-18-2011, 10:59 AM
Yes please.

I'm definitely interested! I'm still trying to figure out what would work best and be safest. Luckily I haven't gotten this truck stuck or needed to pull anyone else out yet but I did more than one double line pull on my last Tacoma ('95 with ARB bumper too).

soonenough
11-18-2011, 06:54 PM
It seems to me that there was a good reason for ARB engineers deciding not to put these mounts onto the bumper. I have a hard time believing that a group of people who design off-road bumpers for a living (and include shackle mounts on many of those designs) simply forgot to address that on one bumper, but who knows, anything's possible. Besides the obvious answer that there are already factory recovery points on the vehicle, I wonder if they wanted to avoid stressing the crumple zones that are built into the bumper? Because whereas a winching load would be fairly gradual/steady, there's a lot of shock loading involved with using snatch straps, and shock loads can overstress components very quickly. There's an ARB rep that posts on here, maybe he could chime in. Or someone could email the company and ask the question, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't share the details of the design philosophy. And that's not to knock ARB, most companies don't readily share that kind of information, and if they do, it will usually be shared in a very consumer-friendly, legality-avoiding, marketing-spun sort of way.
.
Regardles, adding recovery points is definitely do-able though. I don't know what the structure of an ARB bumper looks like behind the sheet metal on the front, but I would think that you'd want to add the shackle mounts as close as possible to the main structural member that ties the bumper into the frame. Here's a few options I found with a quick Google search:
.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/DSC01008.jpg
.
http://www.okoffroad.com/stuff-clevis-mount.htm
http://www.okoffroad.com/okrovers/gifs/members/alanbates-5.jpg

4xdog
11-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Dixon Bate (http://www.dixonbate.co.uk/Towing/tow_jaws.asp) is a well-known name in tow hooks, especially in the LR world.

robert
11-19-2011, 12:16 AM
My first guess on why they don't have them is the design of the crumple cans that the bumper is attached with but then the winch itself is pulling against them and I'm sure they know folks double line. Several of their other designs have similar designs and yet have the eyes so I can't quite figure it out.

The eyes off expedition exchange with the backing plates were the ones I was thinking about adding; I need to get the measurements to be sure but I think I can mount them along the front winch channel where the bumper is thicker and better reinforced than the sides.

brownfam
11-19-2011, 03:31 AM
[QUOTE=soonenough;991925]It seems to me that there was a good reason for ARB engineers deciding not to put these mounts onto the bumper. I have a hard time believing that a group of people who design off-road bumpers for a living (and include shackle mounts on many of those designs) simply forgot to address that on one bumper, but who knows, anything's possible. QUOTE]

Hello from Alaska

Maybe a little bold for a first post but there is some great background on ARB's reasoning on recovery points for bumpers in their Spring 2001 newsletter in the letters section

http://www.arb.com.au/media/newsletters/ARB_Newsletter_Spring11.pdf

It takes a while to load

I had the same question after installing an ARB on my 2008 4Runner and went looking for info

Hope this helps

Michael

robert
11-19-2011, 04:18 AM
I've got another two weeks on this rig and our internet is pretty bad- can you give me a quickie summary so I'm not dying of curiosity. :sombrero:

I'll download and read the whole thing when I get home.

Louisd75
11-19-2011, 05:17 AM
I've got another two weeks on this rig and our internet is pretty bad- can you give me a quickie summary so I'm not dying of curiosity. :sombrero:

I'll download and read the whole thing when I get home.

Liability :)

Here's a quick cut-and-paste:


Hi there ARB, I have recently purchased a 2010 Mitsubishi Challenger and Iím very happy with the vehicle. It performs very well off road and having a factory rear diff locker gets me places that other cars canít!

But on occasion, when I push my luck, I get stuck. As with any car, there are factory Ďtow pointsí on the car, but the prevailing opinion amongst other 4WD owners is to never use factory tow points for recovery purposes.

Iíve asked at a number of places, only to be told that itís not possible to put front recovery points on the vehicle. Iíve also been told that itís a common problem on many modern 4WD vehicles.

So what is the deal? Whatís the low-down on recovery points? Do you have any suggestions on how we are able to make it safe to recover our vehicles from the front?

Thanks for your assistance!
- Ross

Hello Ross,
Thanks for that excellent and topical question. It is an unfortunate fact that no 4x4 vehicle available in Australia comes with a factory recovery point. There is a good reason for this that all owners should understand.

When we talk of 4x4 vehicle recovery, we are referring to the use of either winches or kinetic energy recovery (snatch) straps. Winch recovery using either single or double line pull methods exert significant forces on mounting and recovery points, however the loads exerted by recovery straps are far more significant.

If you consider the engineering challenge here, you begin to understand what sort of recovery point we should all be looking for. That challenge is to ensure that the recovery strap is always the weakest link in the Ďrecovery trainí as we call it.

We definitely do not want anything the strap is attached to (or with) failing and being catapulted about at high speed. Many people have unfortunately been killed around the world from such failures.

A recent death in Queensland saw their government legislate a set of standards for recovery straps, and these have now been adopted nationwide and are now a mandatory standard all straps must comply with.

All very good, however, there remains no such standard, guidelines or regulations on which manufacturers or users can base an appropriately rated recovery point. Typical of governments who want to be seen to be doing something, they chose the wrong product to regulate. Itís what the strap is attached to that is the issue.

Thankfully, there are standards for the shackles we all use to attach straps, however their rating system is based on lifting gear standards, and the safety factors in lifting gear mean that the rating is one fifth of the failure point. If we apply that rule to recovery points for even the lightest snatch strap, we need a recovery point that will survive a load of 40 tonnes. And I can tell you there is no vehicle body or chassis that could ever survive the test load of 40 tonnes. Furthermore, nobody could afford to buy the recovery point even if it was possible.

For many years ARB incorporated recovery eyes on our bull bars or their mounts and tested these as part of the winch load test process we go through on every bar. Unfortunately we had to steer away from that concept as we found too many users were buying the larger truck application recovery straps in the mistaken belief that a bigger and harder to break strap was better. This raised the risk of breaking these points in careless recovery operations.

Yes, there are small numbers of commercially made rated recovery points, but rated to what? They themselves may be strong enough to pass a load test in a laboratory environment, but what about the structure of the vehicle they are mounted on? The fact is that modern 4x4 vehicles are ever more lightly built and some present real challenges to mount bull bars on, let alone a recovery point that could be subjected to loads over 10 tonnes and an angled direction of pull at that.

Some two years ago ARB began a process of examining this perplexing subject with the goal of establishing a new Industry Standard and a range of correctly engineered and tested, correctly rated recovery points. And to make things even harder for ourselves, we set out to test both the recovery points and the chassis section they are mounted to.

These will be substantial devices, unique to each model vehicle and no two will look alike. Pricing is likely to be in the $200-$300 range due to the complexity and physical mass of the devices.

This program has been a long and gruelling one, with several chassis and prototypes destroyed in the process, but a lot of valuable information has been gathered. Having said all of this, thereís good news and bad news for you, Iím afraid. At the time of writing we are producing the first production run of the range and it is for the Ford Ranger, and following that will be Toyota 70 Series LandCruiser, Nissan GU Patrol and Toyota HiLux.

We will launch with this range and gauge reaction before beginning the development of further applications.

If it goes as I hope, the product will be well received by the market and we will quickly be under pressure for more applications. The next stage would include the Triton/Challenger.

Sorry for the long-winded answer, but I hope you now have a better understanding of the issues surrounding this subject.

- Greg Milton, Manager
National Products & Services

brownfam
11-19-2011, 05:22 AM
Lighter construction, heavier vehicles, weaker recovery points, govt regulations, etc

Apparently NO Australian vehicles come from the factory with recovery points anymore because of the lack of standardization of testing and strict govt standards

Here is a short snippet:

Yes, there are small numbers of
commercially made rated recovery
points, but rated to what? They
themselves may be strong enough
to pass a load test in a laboratory
environment, but what about
the structure of the vehicle they
are mounted on? The fact is that
modern 4x4 vehicles are ever more
lightly built and some present real
challenges to mount bull bars on, let
alone a recovery point that could be
subjected to loads over 10 tonnes
and an angled direction of pull at that.
Some two years ago ARB began a
process of examining this perplexing
subject with the goal of establishing
a new Industry Standard and a
range of correctly engineered and
tested, correctly rated recovery
points. And to make things even
harder for ourselves, we set out to
test both the recovery points and the
chassis section they are mounted to.
These will be substantial devices,
unique to each model vehicle and
no two will look alike. Pricing is likely
to be in the $200-$300 range due to
the complexity and physical mass of
the devices.

There is a lot more too it

My son's ARB on his Series 80 has recovery eyes and I really wish mine did, but if ARB doesn't feel like they belong on the bar I will stick with the factory recovery points

Hope this helps

Michael

brownfam
11-19-2011, 05:25 AM
Beat me to it

Oh well

Michael

robert
11-19-2011, 08:33 AM
I suppose this needs to move to the recovery forum at this point, but it brings up several interesting sidelines- how many of the vehicle recovery points are actually designed as recovery points and how many are actually designed for tying the vehicle down like the small loops we see on most passenger cars. Are they rated for a recovery or simply a tug or worse, just to be secured to the deck of the car hauler? Another point would be the ratings methods themselves just as the ARB rep talked about.

I know shackles are rated by working load but they have a safety factor of several times that (it depends on where you are as to what the number is just as some areas want you to be below the rated working load by a certain amount or you have to use a larger shackle). They're also rated for vertical lifts, not pulls; note that winches are rated for vertical or horizontal pulls but our accessories aren't. As you increase the angle of lift you decrease the working load limit so as we pull at an angle we decrease our working load limit. Obviously a two or four part shackle with a screw in pin has a higher safety factor when being used at anything other than a straight pull/lift than a shackle in which the pin is secured by a clip.

Another issue would be the use of frame hooks i.e. J hooks, T hooks, etc. such as this set sold by Expedition Exchange:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/cart/product.php?productid=19292&cat=268&page=3 Not knocking ExpoExchange here, I just noticed them while looking at their products.

Personally I'd never use them except as they were initially designed- for the towing industry to secure a car to a rollback (at least thatís what Iíve been taught). I've personally seen the effects of an angled pull using a T hook by a tow truck operator trying to recover a car from down an embankment. The car was already totaled so it was no loss, but the hook had apparently pulled out of the frame (we were doing an extrication class and I noticed it while looking over the frame structure).

All this just serves to further highlight to me how technical this can be and reinforce the desire to set my vehicle up with safety in mind. Iím also glad I took the time to get some professional instruction on winching physics and safety twenty years ago when I got my first winch. :smiley_drive:

musty40
11-19-2011, 04:23 PM
Maybe an option from Tacoma World:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/buy-sell-trade/138900-2nd-gen-recovery-loop.html

brownfam
11-19-2011, 05:08 PM
Robert, I have the same reservations about the factory recovery points on my 4Runner

They just don't seem that robust

Although, ARB does make a point of emphasizing that their bumper design allows the use of the factory recovery points

At least the factory loops are down low in line with the frame so any pulling force should be distributed along the frame

I would love to have a couple of shackle plates on the bumper but I think I wont second guess the ARB designers

Michael

4xdog
12-27-2011, 07:57 PM
ARB has announced vehicle-specific, separately-attached recovery points for some of the 4WD vehicles in the Australian market. This is a followup to previous posts about comments from ARB in their Spring 2011 newsletter.
http://www.arb.com.au/media/press/Dec2011_ARBRecoveryPoints.pdf

Don

Hill, Bill E.
12-27-2011, 10:50 PM
Another issue would be the use of frame hooks i.e. J hooks, T hooks, etc. such as this set sold by Expedition Exchange:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/cart/product.php?productid=19292&cat=268&page=3

I love their thoughts on 'proper use' of the 'Transit tie down':


If you don't know what the Transit Cluster is, then you have no business using it.



I can see ARB's point (legally and Gov regulated) for not incorporating recovery points on their bumbers/bull bars, but it is important to have reliable and safe recovery points.

With the multitude of vehicle designs nowadays, uni-bodies, crush/crumple zones, air bags (and their deployment) it's easy to see why there are few manufacturers who do include recovery points.

Looks like it's up to each vehicle owner to find some sort of recovery points.

I have had folks get mad at me, because (when trying to recover them) I would insist on checking both ends of the strap, and making sure we had good anchor points.

Had one fellow wrap my kenitic rope around his factory bumper, and say "That's good enough, I got it hooked up, c'mon and get me out of the ditch already!"

He was a bit mad when I unhooked, and left him there. He wouldn't listen to me, and I was not about to ruin my rope, or worse, end up injuring some one.

Mattm94
01-09-2012, 01:06 PM
Can't understand for the life of me why anyone would leave shackles mounted to the bumper when not actually in use and listen to them constantly rattle...