Steel Wheels Vs Aluminum Wheels [Archive]

Brian McVickers

01-20-2006, 02:11 AM

I often here of people changing to steel wheels but I have never fully understood the benefits of doing this.
So I'm curious to hear what you all think are the pros and cons of Steel and Aluminum wheels.

From what I understand the steel wheels have two benefits
1 - they are steel so they are stronger and less prone to denting, bending and warping
2 - they are heavier so they will lower the vehicles center of gravity and provide more stability.

The cons I understand are
1- they are heavier so they hurt fuel efficiency
2- their weight adds to the unsprung weight of the axle -- but I'm not sure I fully understand the "unsprung weight" thing!

Any knowledge to pass on?!:confused: :confused: :confused:

UncleChris

01-20-2006, 02:41 AM

Another big concern is that steel wheels will bend, and you can bend them back on the trail.

Aluminum can crack if bent too far although forged aluminum will bend, but is expensive.

Also, even though it lowers your center of gravity, I don't think you would want to add weight for weights sake on a loaded vehicle.

pskhaat

01-20-2006, 03:06 AM

I always just liked steelies because they were anti-bling :)

:beer:

goodtimes

01-20-2006, 03:23 AM

I think the biggest advantage of steel wheels is the fact that you can beat them back to a semi-round shape if needed.

Here is a perfect example of what is great on technical trails being not so great for expedition travel. Aluminum will not bend as easily as steel. On extreme technical trails, it is not uncommon to slide off of a obstacle with one wheel catching much of the weight and inertia of the vehicle from the side. This can easily bend the center section of a steel wheel, but not likely with an aluminum wheel.

On the other hand, if you run off the road at speed with a aluminum wheel, you run the risk of literally breaking the wheel at the bead seat, where as steel will simply bend, allowing you the chance to beat it back into submission.

gjackson

01-20-2006, 04:18 AM

Yep, alloy is more brittle than steel and will tend to crack if hit really hard. Steel will bend and stretch, and can be bent back. I was glad I had steel wheels for a couple of reasons. The wolf wheels I have are millitary wheels and are made of 1/4" thick steel! Yes, they are heavy! But at the various roadside tire shops we stopped at in Africa, the boys who change the tires tend to hit stuff really hard with hammers and long pieces of steel (to break beads etc). They don't see many alloy wheels, so they don't care to be careful.

In this day and age I'm sure you can get away with alloy for most, if not all, expeditioning. And take advantage of the lower unsprung weight, which will improve handling. I like steelies, for the look and the beatability, others will disagree.

cheers

CLynn85

01-20-2006, 04:31 AM

There's also another major factor missing from this discussion... $$$$$$$$$

goodtimes

01-20-2006, 01:57 PM

There is not that much of a price difference between basic steel wheels ($50 each), and basic alloy's ($85 each). The steelies that you see advertized for $34.95 are really crap, and you don't want them (trust me....been there, done that....2 of the 5 I bought had bent center sections when I bought them (new), I bent one more on a very easy trail (Miller Jeep Trail) in SoCal).

Personally, I prefer alloy's....but that is a reflection on the type off trails I generally drive.

Jonathan Hanson

01-20-2006, 02:15 PM

I'm going to chime in on the other side here.

First, if I were planning a long, unsupported trip through the third world, I would certainly choose steel wheels. However, for virtually all other remote travel I think modern aluminum wheels are worth considering. Note that the following comparison deals with split rims, the heaviest type of steel wheel there is - standard steel wheels are significantly lighter.

I ran split rims on my FJ40 for several years, and while, yes, it was fun to be able to break down a wheel and fix a flat with hand tools, the tubes caused many more flats than I had encountered with standard rims (an experience echoed by the Sahara explorer Chris Scott, who not long ago also abandoned split rims). I finally put on a set of aluminum wheels, probably half the weight of the split rims, and was astonished at the transformation in the feel of the vehicle. The ride improved, handling improved, and compliance went way up. I'm sure I could detect a slight increase in low-speed acceleration as well. The vehicle floated over washboard it had previously crashed over.

Everyone talks about breakage in aluminum rims, but how many broken aluminum rims have you actually seen - especially considering the millions of trucks now equipped with factory alloy wheels? On radical rock crawling trails perhaps, but on normal, rough, expedition-type roads and trails? I think if you buy a wheel with the proper GVW capacity the chances for trouble are slight, and the benefits worth considering.

I recently got an extra Toyota stock aluminum rim for our Tacoma, off a totalled truck. The wheel in question had been shoved into a curb hard enough to burst the tire mounted to it, yet the rim was still perfect. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but reassuring.

Brian: Unsprung weight is all the weight not supported by the suspension - or everything under the suspension if you prefer: axles, brakes, wheels and tires. Reducing unsprung weight reduces stress on springs and shocks, and enables the suspension to react faster to road irregularities.

I do wish someone would invent an aluminum wheel with a nice flat black finish cast into it, however!

Brian McVickers

01-20-2006, 03:44 PM

Thanks for explaining "unsprung weight" Jonathan!:)

+ d

01-20-2006, 04:16 PM

in terms of expense...i have found that if you decide to stick with the factory aluminum wheels then spares are practically a dime-a-dozen.

i picked up a whole set of four wheels for extremely cheap from a local idiot that blinged out his jeep with dubs :eek:

njtaco

01-20-2006, 04:17 PM

FWIW, I have seen a Land Cruiser alloy rim damaged beyond (practical) repair by a pothole! Tires were aired up, etc. Excessive speed and a teenager in Daddy's truck were involved, though.:rolleyes: A steel wheel in the same circumstance may have survived after being straightened, but I would not have trusted it except as a spare. The owner tried (unsucessfully) to have the rim welded, but liability issues as they are, was unsucessful.

My preference is steel. I nothing back this up with, though, except I've been able to straighten a few. Just what I like. Aluminum always seemed to be higher maintenance to keep looking good, too. Too much road salt in NJ, I guess. Also a lot of salt in the sand (beaches.)

goodtimes

01-20-2006, 04:59 PM

I'm going to chime in on the other side here.

Everyone talks about breakage in aluminum rims, but how many broken aluminum rims have you actually seen - especially considering the millions of trucks now equipped with factory alloy wheels? On radical rock crawling trails perhaps, but on normal, rough, expedition-type roads and trails? I think if you buy a wheel with the proper GVW capacity the chances for trouble are slight, and the benefits worth considering.
I do wish someone would invent an aluminum wheel with a nice flat black finish cast into it, however!

I think the issue is not so much the normal, day to day use, but what happens under extreme circumstances. I have seen aluminum wheels break when they suffer from a large impact with a high angle of incedence(suburban took a corner to tight, clipped the left rear wheel on a tall curb at some ungodly speed...she blew out the tire and broke a chunk out of the wheel)....and I have seen steel wheels get bent to hell and not break. Under normal circumstances, I think you are right....but there is always that one in a million chance that you are travelling alone in a remote area, break 2 aluminum wheels (remember, you replace the first broken wheel with your spare), and have to walk 75 miles to get help. Of course, that is assuming your vehicle is still drivable after taking that big of a hit....

so, IMO, there is some validity to the "steel wheels are better" arguement, when extreme circumstances are applied. That said, I'll stick to aluminum and take my chances.

Oh, there are a couple of aluminum wheels that are available in black and dark gray...or you can simply have yours powder coated in whatever color you like.

goodtimes

01-20-2006, 05:03 PM

[QUOTE=njtaco] The owner tried (unsucessfully) to have the rim welded, but liability issues as they are, was unsucessful.

[QUOTE]

There is actually a place in Tucson (the name escapes me right now...they are on the s/w corner of Alvernon and Irvington IIRC) that repairs aluminum wheels. That is the mainstay of their business. Their most common repairs are either wheels like mine which have been rubbed against so many rocks that they no longer have a lip to attach balance weights to, or expensive wheels damaged in collisions. They also powder coat...so they may be a option for you Jonathan, if you really want those black wheels on your 40....

edit****

Their website is http://www.nuwheel.com/index.html. It appears that they will only repair damage on the outer lip, which is not what my (sometimes feeble) mind remembered from the newspaper article on them a year or two ago). Their site also does not show anything about powder coating on site....again, I'm pretty sure the article in the paper said they do.....

Brian McVickers

01-20-2006, 05:08 PM

The repairability of steel whells sounds like a great benefit for rough trails in isolated areas where you will be for long periods of time. But in order for the repairability to be useful you need to know how to do it. I would imagine that if you pound one back into shape that you need to have som skill in making it true enough to hold a bead again. So skill, tools, and time to work on it all become additional factors.

paulj

01-20-2006, 05:25 PM

Does the size of the openings in the rim make a difference? Steel wheels tend to have a number of small holes, while aluminum ones have 5 or more spokes with larger openings between them.

I read of one case where the steering arms of a sport ute were damaged by a stick that got caught in a wheel. Admittedly the wheels this case were after market ones with particularly large openings.

paulj

Nullifier

01-20-2006, 06:16 PM

well I have the factory steel wheels on the taco but will be going to aluminum when I get my lift. I will most likely take them down to bare aluminum and paint them so I can touch them up from time to time rather then get the ones that are powder coated already.nothing more functional them rattle can black LOL.

I think it will reallly help out my 4 banger to reduece the wieght of the wheels. Especially when I'm loaded.

pskhaat

01-20-2006, 06:57 PM

Exactly! On remote trips where rockcrawling isn't really that bad, I carry two spare tires, as even if I did get a wheel damaged, I'm betting the tire is in worse shape.

GeoRoss

01-20-2006, 07:17 PM

Would the weight of steel wheels add to wear and tear on bearings and other components?

Ross

paulj

01-20-2006, 07:27 PM

Another consideration is, what is your spare tire(s) mounted on? If the spare is steel, can a flat tire on an aluminum rim be stored in the same place? Does the spare use the same lug nuts as the main wheels? same hub center?

The S10 pickup that I had some years ago, came with aluminum wheels, plus a steel spare. The spare mounted under the bed with a cable winch. I ended up getting open lug nuts to work with spare, plus an appropriate hub cap (though the axle ends were sealed against dirt). I never did try knocking the center plug out of an aluminum wheel and see if it would fit under the bed.

paulj

Jonathan Hanson

01-20-2006, 08:01 PM

I always make sure my spare is exactly the same wheel and tire as the rest.

Pskhaat makes a good point: An impact bad enough to damage a wheel has in all probability damaged the tire, so wheel repairability would be somewhat moot until you can reach a tire store! The tire on the spare wheel I mentioned was toast.

I expect switching to aluminum wheels would have a measurable impact on tire, spring, and especially shock absorber life.

chet

01-20-2006, 08:45 PM

Some of the newer steel wheels are not much heavier than a proper forged Alum. wheel. for normal road travel I doubt alum would be a prob though. For rockcrawling we use steel. some of the guys in our club have alum and I have seen cracked and broken rims. steel ones bend but a hammer straightens them enough to get them to hold air. if not some silicone on the bead does! :p

I have seen alum wheels damaged from inpacts (lugs ripped right out) where the tire was still in fine shape! :Wow1:

gjackson

01-21-2006, 04:13 PM

I would imagine that if you pound one back into shape that you need to have som skill in making it true enough to hold a bead again. So skill, tools, and time to work on it all become additional factors.

It isn't too hard to pound a steel wheel back into good enough shape to hold air. For those of us that run tubes (don't flame me!!) it is even easier. And in some cases if you put a new tube in you can even recover the tire that suffered the impact long emough to drive out to help.

One other factor I have experienced is the time I didn't tighten the lug nuts properly. They started to come off at high speed in the desert and the wheel moved around enough to elongate the lug holes (and destroy the lugs). Since they were steel it was easy to get the holes welded up and made round again. While this can be done with alloy, it takes a specialty shop whch you may not find in the bush.

In third world countries (which are not the standard case here, obviously) there may also be the danger of having fancy wheels stolen. Alloys tend to attract more attention because of the bling factor. I hate those security lug nuts, and wouldn't use them on a remote expedition rig. I'd rather have wheels that no one wants!

Just my 2c!

cheers

Jonathan Hanson

01-21-2006, 07:08 PM

Excellent point, Graham.

And I've never found a "security" lug nut I couldn't remove in fifteen seconds with a slightly undersized socket and a hammer!

goodtimes

01-22-2006, 01:45 AM

Excellent point, Graham.

And I've never found a "security" lug nut I couldn't remove in fifteen seconds with a slightly undersized socket and a hammer!

The "security" lug that DC is using to lock the spare tires on the wranglers fits that bill. The OD is round...no ridges or sharp edges to get a bite on. Your best bet is to hit it with a BFH and try to break the lug off.

Although, if you had a tough enough socket, I suppose it might be possible to beat one onto it...letting it cut it's own teeth....provided the lug isn't heat treated (I have no idea if it is or not)....but in general, I agree...they are a pain.

paulj

01-22-2006, 04:14 AM

I had a stuck locking lug nut on my S10 several years ago. It was tight enough that it was breaking the keys (which were an older 2 part, press fit design). The solution, suggested by the lug nut manufacturer (McNut?), was to over tighten the other lug nuts on that wheel, thus reducing the pressure on problem nut. After that I quit using locking lugs.

paulj

asteffes

01-22-2006, 04:39 AM

Excellent point, Graham.

And I've never found a "security" lug nut I couldn't remove in fifteen seconds with a slightly undersized socket and a hammer!

I've used this technique more than twice. ;)

asteffes

01-22-2006, 04:43 AM

Aluminum is sensitive to proper casting and heat treating techniques. I have seen aluminum wheels break cleanly, as though one had sliced it with a butter knife. I've also seen them crack in jagged patterns and basically self-destruct. Some of these wheels saw significant track/racecar use, while one in particular (an SSR semi-forged wheel that saw mostly street use) failed due to a manufacturing defect (SSR admitted it was their fault.) Aluminum tends to fatigue with time, so you have to keep an eye on alloy wheels, checking for minute cracks often.

Scott Brady

01-23-2006, 12:56 AM

I have always liked steel wheels, but have used factory steelies (for my Jeeps, etc.) they were always reasonably light and balanced very well.

My current steel wheels are not factory, and are much heavier, and do not balance (at all). I am seriously considering moving to these Teflon aluminum units:

http://www.americanracing.com/dealerline/blackimages/blackbig/b3981.jpg

Anti-bling, good production tolerances and lighter rotating mass/unsprung weight.

Less rotating mass allows the vehicle to stop and accelerate faster

Less unsprung weight allows the suspension to respond faster and the shocks to control compression and rebound under fast cycling (like corrugated roads) more efficiently, reducing heat and enhancing control.

Mlachica

01-23-2006, 01:18 AM

I too have been contemplating swapping back to alloys for the same reasons as Scott. I was thinking of getting these:

http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/16alloy.jpg

Similar to the AR's but without the teflon.

They're basically a black powdercoated Mickey Thompson Classic II. I've heard of somebody with an 01-04 tacoma that has classic lock (w/faux beadlock) II's in 15x8 without having to shave the caliper. I have yet to confirm this though.

cruiseroutfit

01-23-2006, 04:41 AM

Any idea what those teflon coated AR rims weigh? More importantly a cross section sketch of the rim ;)

Some have made a reference to the the kinetic energy required to accel/decel... Although the rim plays a part in this, the tire selection is FAR more decisive as the rotational kinetic energy (which = 1/2 * moment of inertia * angular speed^2, noting the inertia is directly proportional to the distance from the center of the hub, thus why the wheel is far more important in this respect than the rim. Different brand tires (Toyo, BFG, GY, etc) with similar tire sizes can require as much as 15-20% different amounts of force at 65mph to turn.

Thats not to say one tire will let your rig accelerate 15% faster than another, that is just one part of the equation... :ylsmoke:

Westy

01-23-2006, 12:57 PM

Scott Brady

01-23-2006, 02:37 PM

Those are some sweet wheels.
What brand wheels are those? Where did you find them at?? I'm interested!

http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/toyblackalloys.htm

Wheelers is a quality supplier with good service and resonable prices.

Mlachica

01-23-2006, 04:01 PM

Scott's right. I've ordered from them before and never had any problems.

jim65wagon

07-16-2006, 11:34 AM

I have always liked steel wheels,

My current steel wheels are not factory, and are much heavier, and do not balance (at all).

My steel wheels also do not balance well, they do better on a haweka type lug adapter, but it still takes a lot of weight to limit the vibrations to acceptable levels on new tires; after the tires wear a bit and they get rebalanced the become quite a bit smoother, not perfect but at least they look good!

Grim Reaper

07-16-2006, 01:44 PM

Going Aluminum. The factory steels are so ot of round there is no balancing them. I have never seen so much weight on a small tire (235 75 15) in my life. The 35's that were on my 7ft tall K5 on a new set of AR 767's took less weight to balance then the factory wheels on my Toyota. That 35 on a steel rim was 90lb.

For expedition set up with a lot of higher speed potential I think Aluminum is the way to go especially if its a vehicle driven on the hwy. Less mass unsprung and less rotating working against the brakes. Thats why I am going with the 33x10.5 is to cut down the weights.

If it was a dedicated rock crawler then steel would be my choice.

SOAZ

01-06-2009, 09:27 PM

To revive an old thread. Here are a couple of questions and observations.

I weighed my Factory Toyota Steel wheel and tire. 16x8 on 255-85-16 BFG KM1
76.2 lbs
I then weighed my alloy Toyota factory TRD 16x8 on 255-85-16 BFG KM1
75.5 lbs

I'm amazed that it is not even a pound different!

Now I'm wondering, is it just factory alloys that seem to always weigh more. A set of American Racing Outlaw II's are an extraordinarily strong wheel that is pretty darn light. I just don't have one mounted on a similar tire to mine to compare grapefruit to grapefruit.

So, has anyone done some testing or have feelings about what kind of weight difference they experienced when changing from one to the other and how big of a different it made. In other words, did you experience a 10 lb change and feel a lot or a little. Did you experience a .5lb change and feel nothing etc?

On the topic of straightening alloy wheels, we regularly do it to our American Raicing Outlaw I wheels on our desert racing buggy.
We tend to curl the bead over enough to pop the bead. (a couple inches) and as long as its no more bent then that it can be repaired by a local shop and then we are racing on it again never to have issues again.
Bent wheel still holding air, and consequently getting us to the finish line of the Baja 500.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/soaz/Off%20road%20racing%20adventures/Baja%20Mexico/8479257-R1-014-5A.jpg
Bent and no longer holding air. Apparently we had plenty of spare film, but not enough to get me a tire. Hehe! :oops:
Actually the commercial TA's are such a stiff tire and the buggy is so light in front it was faster to just do the last 40 miles on a flat than to stop. It didn't slow me down, except the corners were... interesting...
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/soaz/Off%20road%20racing%20adventures/Sonora%20Mexico/Web20IMG_4523.jpg

SOAZ

01-08-2009, 04:44 PM

Just an update:

As anyone might have guessed, Alloy rims are not created equal. Not even close when it comes to weight.

I searched all over and found out mostly that folks don't take the time to weigh their wheels. There were all sorts of guesses as to the weight of wheels. So, I contacted the manufacturers on three different wheels.

Alloy:
American Racing Outlaw II. 16x8. This rim weighs 23 pounds and is a very high load rating rim. Very strong.

Toyota FJ Cruiser TRD Special edition 16x7.5. This rim weighs in at 31lbs each. :yikes: That is quite a difference in rolling weight! (thanks TRDparts4U for the info)

Toyota Steel spare wheel. 16x7. This rim weighs 32lbs.

So basically there is an 8 lb difference between the Toyota Factory Alloy and the American racing wheel.
Now here is the kicker. I would like some actual, factual evidence about what sort of difference this would make to the handling, fuel mileage, acceleration, deceleration etc.
I can say that I bet my empirical Rear End meter could feel that amount of difference, but what say you?

R_Lefebvre

01-08-2009, 04:53 PM

SOAZ

01-08-2009, 05:06 PM

I've been around this argument with cars a number of times, and I'd bet there's absolutely no way you could feel, or probably even measure, any difference between wheels of those weights. It's just not a big factor.

I've seen all the light weight wheels that the ricer crowd use fracture, and in some cases bend from *driving forces*. I'll always choose a heavier wheel from a reputable manufacturer, and I like OEM wheels because they tend to be stronger than most aftermarket wheels.

To me, saving 5-10lbs just isn't worth it.

This never happens with OEM aluminum wheels.

Thanks. Thats the kind of experiences I'm looking for. Although you are talking about feather weight car wheels and I'm comparing three wheels that all are stronger than needed. None of the ones compared would ever have strength issues.

That being said, have you switched out rims of different weights. I'm not worried about a lb here or there. I was thinking that 40 lbs of weight 32 of which are unsprung would actually make a noticeable difference.

I wonder if ExPo and its vast resources has a vehicle engineer or something that could let us know what they feel a noticeable difference in wheel weight is?

pete.wilson

01-08-2009, 05:54 PM

hey

Personally I think it has more to do with personal taste than it does with real issues with either one. I have run aluminum and steel both and normally have never had much problem with either; the two that I did have issues with was a steel rim that was warped from new and was replaced and another in which I folded the rim nicely that I doubt if an aluminum would have survived either. I'm running a factory Ford aluminums now and they are fine, but I like the looks of black steel. Maybe those aluminun teflon black ones would be nice. Use what you have, replace if you want to. Have fun!

Pete Wilson

Antichrist

01-08-2009, 07:22 PM

R_Lefebvre

01-08-2009, 08:37 PM

Thanks. Thats the kind of experiences I'm looking for. Although you are talking about feather weight car wheels and I'm comparing three wheels that all are stronger than needed. None of the ones compared would ever have strength issues.

That being said, have you switched out rims of different weights. I'm not worried about a lb here or there. I was thinking that 40 lbs of weight 32 of which are unsprung would actually make a noticeable difference.

I wonder if ExPo and its vast resources has a vehicle engineer or something that could let us know what they feel a noticeable difference in wheel weight is?

Well, I guess I'm questioning those American Racing wheels. 23lbs... that's about what my car wheels weigh in a 16x7. IIRC. It's been a long time, but I believe all my wheels are over 20lbs. I avoided the ones under 20. So, you're basically talking about running wheels on your truck that are the same weight as car wheels.

Now, I know that weight has little direct correlation to strength. But, with nothing else to base our decisions on, I look at the weight, and just a gut feel. I buy affordable, good reputation wheels that are not marketed as being light weight. I avoid wheels that are affordable and light weight, and it's served me well. Now, light weight and expensive (=forged), that's another matter.

That's why I tend to stick to used OEM wheels for the truck. They are strong and cheap, if ugly. I can live with ugly, because they're going to get damaged offroad anyway.

I used to be a vehicle engineer (powertrain, not suspension) but am friends with an engineer at an OEM, who's a truck suspension guy.

I've been meaning to ask, what exactly are you guys doing to bend wheels anyway? Are you driving fast and hitting rocks? Just curious, because with that much sidewall, and the speeds I travel, I just can't imagine bending one?

michaelgroves

01-08-2009, 10:28 PM

I've been meaning to ask, what exactly are you guys doing to bend wheels anyway? Are you driving fast and hitting rocks? Just curious, because with that much sidewall, and the speeds I travel, I just can't imagine bending one?

A fair question :)

MaddBaggins

01-09-2009, 12:29 AM

Black steel wheels are all the bling I need. Much cheaper than any decent alloy.

I've bent the edges of mine a couple times. Rocks my friend, rocks.

hoser

01-09-2009, 12:46 AM

With this particular wheel, the caliper came loose and caused the spokes to bend. If you look closely, you'll see some 'burring' on the spokes.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9015/rotayu3.jpg

SOAZ

01-09-2009, 01:06 AM

Well, I guess I'm questioning those American Racing wheels. 23lbs... that's about what my car wheels weigh in a 16x7. IIRC. It's been a long time, but I believe all my wheels are over 20lbs. I avoided the ones under 20. So, you're basically talking about running wheels on your truck that are the same weight as car wheels.

Now, I know that weight has little direct correlation to strength. But, with nothing else to base our decisions on, I look at the weight, and just a gut feel. I buy affordable, good reputation wheels that are not marketed as being light weight. I avoid wheels that are affordable and light weight, and it's served me well. Now, light weight and expensive (=forged), that's another matter.

That's why I tend to stick to used OEM wheels for the truck. They are strong and cheap, if ugly. I can live with ugly, because they're going to get damaged offroad anyway.

I used to be a vehicle engineer (powertrain, not suspension) but am friends with an engineer at an OEM, who's a truck suspension guy.

I've been meaning to ask, what exactly are you guys doing to bend wheels anyway? Are you driving fast and hitting rocks? Just curious, because with that much sidewall, and the speeds I travel, I just can't imagine bending one?

I've bent many a rim racing. Thats because we are racing and driving completely too fast so when the tire hits a rock that the size of a bowling ball it works fine 9 out of 10 times. On the 10th, the tire blows so there is no resistance and then smashes the rim on the rock and the rim is now bent.

I'm not worried about bending or braking any rims I have on my personal truck. Thats not the question! The thing I'm interested in is efficiency. With the factual discussion Redline is able to bring to looking at different tires I'm hoping someone who has the time and knowledge can shed some light on the different weights of wheels and how it affects efficiency, performance etc.

The Outlaw II may be a light tire, but its also one of the strongest. Its a simple old wheel with no frills. It was the wheel of choice for trophy trucks before there was a trophy truck class or special trophy truck wheels made. I agree 23lbs is light. Thats one of the reasons I like them.

Anyone know of any factual tests regarding wheels and wheel weight? ;)

Sleeping Dog

02-22-2009, 02:51 AM

There is actually a place in Tucson (the name escapes me right now...they are on the s/w corner of Alvernon and Irvington IIRC) that repairs aluminum wheels. That is the mainstay of their business. Their most common repairs are either wheels like mine which have been rubbed against so many rocks that they no longer have a lip to attach balance weights to, or expensive wheels damaged in collisions. They also powder coat...so they may be a option for you Jonathan, if you really want those black wheels on your 40....

Their website is http://www.nuwheel.com/index.html. It appears that they will only repair damage on the outer lip, which is not what my (sometimes feeble) mind remembered from the newspaper article on them a year or two ago). Their site also does not show anything about powder coating on site....again, I'm pretty sure the article in the paper said they do.....

A metallurgist will tell you that you can't repair an aluminum wheel, yes it can be returned to shape, but the molecular structure of the metal will have been damaged and the wheel will be structurally suspect. That is probably the reason they only repair the outer edge, that is not a stressed area and therefore not susceptible to causing wheel failure

Jim

ntsqd

02-22-2009, 03:51 AM

A weld, any weld in any metal, is an on-site casting. If the wheel is an alloy casting then there is no hugely significant change assuming no post machining heat treat was done during it's mfg. Steel wheels are welded together at a critical point. There is not best solution to that argument.

If it was an alloy forging then why did you bend it? If you're determined to try to save it I'd highly suggest trying it in the old Navy Flotation Test. Huck it into the nearest large body of water. If it floats it's still good - go and get it back.

For me it comes down to ride quality. Steel sucks in this aspect. By the time a steel wheel is made light enough to compare with an ordinary alloy wheel it has no place being off road unless it's on a dirt oval.
I switched from steel wheels and 33-10.50 BFG M/T's to alloy wheels and 33-10.50 BFG A/T's and the large improvement in ride quality means that I've no interest in steel wheels for anything that I take on off road trips. None.

threepiece188

03-08-2009, 01:34 PM

It seems to be common in this thread to use the word alloy when refering to aluminum. I thought some of you (perhaps not all) would like to know that alloy is not an acronym for aluminum but a word itself. The meaning of alloy is a solid solution of two or more metals. These can be any metal, copper, lead, gold, steel, aluminun ect. that can be disolved or mixed together. The steel wheels you are talking about are quite likeley alloy as well.
Dan.

I Leak Oil

03-08-2009, 01:48 PM

Steel is an alloy just as aluminum or zinc wheels are an alloy. No one would want to use rim made of a pure metal. In the context of most automotive discussions it is usually assumed that "alloy" referes to an aluminum or sometimes zinc based component. Like when you go to a restaurant and order a "coke".
Jason T.

offroad_nomad

03-09-2009, 12:50 AM

+1 for Wheelers.

I added a set of the Black Steelies - Type B. (http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/4runnerwheels.htm) I've always had great service from them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DC_Magoo/DSC05232.jpg

http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/toyblackalloys.htm

Wheelers is a quality supplier with good service and resonable prices.

Mrknowitall

02-28-2012, 07:17 PM

My personal preference is Steel, though I wouldn't go buying new steelies, just because a truck I bought had alloys. I like the non-bling aspect. I've also cracked alluminum wheels- right down the center of the rim. I managed to get the crack TIG'ed, tire back on, and I never looked back. Stock aluminum wheels might be cheap to get, but OE steel wheels can be even cheaper. With newer hub-centric arrangements, steel wheels are less likely to jamb and go on crooked. Hammering back a wheel lip is a bonus. Lug-nuts can be bothersome on some aluminum wheels, too.

FellowTraveler

02-29-2012, 11:30 AM

If running any hi-cap 3/4 or 1 ton vehicle make sure you use the right steel wheels too.

While a wheel may have 8 lug holes it may not be up to the task on a heavy capacity vehicle.

GM for instance uses on heavy capacity 3/4 and 1 tons steel wheels w/rivets instead of welded attachment points for wheel to wheel center attachment, they have identification letter/number codes next to the valve stem opening. Cost is easily 3 times of aftermarket steely.

However, any quality wheel-smith can build hi-cap steely wheels that are welded.

The ability to repair a steely in the field with a body repair hammer and hand anvil if needed far outweighs justification of any other material on an expedition vehicle.

Cast aluminum wheels are for mall crawlers IMHO

Forged alloys are a good choice if you have deep pockets and keep 2 or more spares.

Mark Harley

02-29-2012, 05:46 PM

I run steel GM rims from a one ton van.
The rims are heavy but have held up well on my 2002 GMC 2500HD crew cab
Painted gloss black they are easy to maintain and look ok.

Every Miles A Memory

03-06-2012, 02:19 AM

Our 2003 F-250 had stock 8-Lug Steel wheels on it. Driving down the HWY at 75mph and had a complete tire blow-out. I was in the left lane towing a utility trailer so I had to ride on the rim for quite a ways before I could change 3 lanes and pull over to the right.

Rim was a total loss.

Searched around on Craigslist till I found a set of Take-Off's - Found a set of Stock Ford Aluminum 8-Lug rims for $400!!!

Even the guys at the tire shop who were swapping out the old steel wheels with the new aluminum ones couldn't believe how much lighter the aluminum ones were. You practically blew out a few back discs lifting the steel wheels into the bed of the truck, where you could lift the aluminum ones up without even thinking about it

UPDATE: We've put a few tanks of fuel through the truck now with the aluminum rims and tires mounted (235/85/R16) Our old tires were 265/75/R16 - We never were able to break the 400 miles per tank with the original rims and tires. Since we've made the switch, ever tank has got us over the 400 mile mark. Just barely, but the wife and I have both noticed on our Scan Gauge that we're averaging 20mpg rather than the normal 14-16mpg.

I'm not sure if it's the aluminum wheels or the taller tires, but I'm sold on the aluminum wheels strictly for how much lighter they are when it comes to changing them. I figure I always have a full size spare, so I'm not that worried about being stranded out on the road.

I also seem to remember someone posting a stat on this forum that there is no where in the United States where you are more than 100 miles from a McDonalds or something like that??? I figure my spare can get me to the local Mickey D's where I can wait for a new rim to arrive :victory:

FellowTraveler

03-06-2012, 11:26 AM

[QUOTE=

UPDATE: We've put a few tanks of fuel through the truck now with the aluminum rims and tires mounted (235/85/R16) Our old tires were 265/75/R16 - We never were able to break the 400 miles per tank with the original rims and tires. Since we've made the switch, ever tank has got us over the 400 mile mark. Just barely, but the wife and I have both noticed on our Scan Gauge that we're averaging 20mpg rather than the normal 14-16mpg.

I'm not sure if it's the aluminum wheels or the taller tires, but I'm sold on the aluminum wheels strictly for how much lighter they are when it comes to changing them. I figure I always have a full size spare, so I'm not that worried about being stranded out on the road.

I also seem to remember someone posting a stat on this forum that there is no where in the United States where you are more than 100 miles from a McDonalds or something like that??? I figure my spare can get me to the local Mickey D's where I can wait for a new rim to arrive :victory:[/QUOTE]

Hello their, very little difference in tire diameter of tires you listed any gains would be more from narrow contact patch. I've noticed gains with tall/narrow tires when the tread pattern is not aggressive.

The newer lower rolling resistance tires "LRR" marketed these days seem to work well in returning better mpg (s) don't know how they'd perform off road.

Every Miles A Memory

03-06-2012, 12:57 PM

My new tires are dedicated to road travel only, but we didnt see any off-road trips in the near future, so I figured when we're ready to head back on the road, I'll move back to a more aggressive tread.

While traveling, we rarely tackle anything that is considered rough or aggressive. Think more two tracks, some deep sand and maybe the occasional mud section or water crossing, but nothing that would warrant a bead-lock or tire designed for serious off-road.