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View Full Version : Safari Snorkel - Best Way To Connect To Intake - Performance Vs. Stock Look



upcountry
01-12-2012, 03:03 PM
Safari Snorkel Install Questions for Second Generation Tacoma

I just received delivery of a snorkel from Cruiser Outfitters (Thanks Kurt!), and have read over the mounting instructions created by Cruiser Outfitters and TacoDoc (Thanks guys!).

The directions are really straightforward, and installing the snorkel itself seems like a detailed but not overly difficult task. I am more curious about the portion of the install where the snorkel is connected to the air intake on the engine. This may vary slightlty from truck to truck, but generally a custom connection needs to me made from the rubber snorkel elbow to the airbox (air filter) housing.

From combing the different forums, it seems there are three main way to do this (thank you to those that have posted pics of your install, I have borrowed some below)

1)Use TacoDoc's method and have a peice of exhaust piping bent with two 45 degree bends to connect from the rubber elbow to the air box:

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2)The Streakerfreak method. A method that retains the factory air hose and cut the hose off just after the resonator box. Then use a piece of straight exhaust tube to connect between the rubber elbow and the factory air hose. This pic is from Streakerfreaks build page- thank you for posting the pic!

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3)Retain the factory air hose and resonator box and cut the tip off the fender end of the resonator box leaving enough of the tip of the box to attach the rubber elbow from the snorkel. This would retain almost all of the factory air assemble and resonator box.

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Questions:

1)Is there a "performance benefit" to using as direct pipe (i.e. smoother walled less bends that can take advantage of the "ram air" effect from the snorkel)?

2) I am skeptical of using the plumbing connections as suggested and would probably opt for a silicoln automotive connector like those used to connect mandrels in turbo applications (something like this: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/hoseandclamps.htm ). Not sure how long a plumbing connection from home depot will hold up in my engine bay? any thoughts on this?

3) Does the resonator that is located at the tip of the stock air hose have a function (like and expansion reservior?) that would be worth retaining?

4) On a different subject, has anyone thought of cutting a piece of reinforced rubber gasket material (like what is used on flanges in commercial/utility plubming applications) to match the backside shape of the brackett that is bolted to the windsheild pillar to better seal up the connection between the brackett and the pillar? I have seen where some have applied silicone here but that would break down quickly and start to peel.

I am about to start the install, and am collecting parts. I am leaning towards option #3 above to retain the factory resonator. Howevor if option #1 above will enhance performance I may have a stainless steel peice bent or order one from a turbo shop online and cut it down to fit.

Thoughts?

downhill
01-12-2012, 05:00 PM
I think one question to answer is whether the ram air effect is real or imagined. There may be some additional air pressure provided by the intake, but the intake tract is also much longer. My guess is that it is a wash. I would stick as close as possible to stock (option 3). The resonator may reduce intake noise. It may also be tuned to work with the intake pulses. A sort of ballast. All guesses of course. The box would serve as a water trap in the event some got past the intake baffle. The stock system is also flexible enough to move with the engine when it torques. I would not use a hard connection.

upcountry
01-12-2012, 07:23 PM
That's what I am wondering.....if the resonator box serves a purpose and therfore removing it will impact performance somehow?

Most reports I have read don't mention performance loss from option 1, but who knlws?

I like the clean look of option 3. Ill see if I can get that rub er hose around the end of the resonator box after cutting off the box elbow.

Danimal
01-12-2012, 08:20 PM
In my experience, resonators are designed only as an acoustic device - not for some kind of intake performance or pressure damping effect. Again, this is only from my experience. They are commonly designed to act as a Helmholtz resonator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance), which is effective at some set frequency where resonance has been observed in particular application. Hence all of the funny, inconsistent shapes you see on engines like the 5VZ-FE.

I sure wouldn't be worried about a performance loss removing it, but I also wouldn't expect a gain.


downhill raises all good points, especially the fact that Option 1 seems to have no provision for engine movement.

Dan

trailrunner
01-12-2012, 11:53 PM
When using the steel pipe, could heat transfer be an issue?

Streakerfreak
01-13-2012, 01:10 AM
downhill raises all good points, especially the fact that Option 1 seems to have no provision for engine movement.


As a quick note, TacoDoc has been running that method for several years now and many offroad miles. Unless he has changed it and I am not aware of it.

downhill
01-13-2012, 01:27 AM
That's what I am wondering.....if the resonator box serves a purpose and therfore removing it will impact performance somehow?

Most reports I have read don't mention performance loss from option 1, but who knlws?

I like the clean look of option 3. Ill see if I can get that rub er hose around the end of the resonator box after cutting off the box elbow.

Couple of tips. If the hose is a tight fit, put in hot water for a while to soften it. I also keep a pump spray bottle of cheap hairspray around for fitting rubber parts. It makes them slick as goose grease, and when it dries it forms a mild adhesive. Great for things like bicycle grips or any slide on rubber part.

cruiseroutfit
01-13-2012, 05:12 AM
Great thread, I'm excited to see what comes of it :cool:

I've seen about a dozen different ways to handle the underhood connection, none are 'wrong' per say but some are definitely cleaner than others. Interested to see how you tackle the project. Thanks again for the order!

upcountry
01-13-2012, 02:56 PM
I've seen about a dozen different ways to handle the underhood connection, none are 'wrong' per say but some are definitely cleaner than others.

There are some good threads out there on different forums.....I actually have seen a "wrong" way on one of the forums where a guy used a peice of galvinized furnace duct and sealed it with some silicone. That WAS wrong!!! Another guy used a full roll of duct tape to seal his up, that was also WRONG. Haha. It sounds like both ended up cleaning up the install once they had the right parts, but it was interesting to see how they temporarily adapted "other" parts to make it work!


Photo from user Maximillion2345 at Tacoma World Forum:

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There is a good thread on Tacoma World on the different installs that have been done if you have the patience to sift through the nonsense (and there is a lot of banter):

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/performance-tuning/141141-snorkel-installation-2nd-gen-ss135mod-1st-gen-ss170hf.html

Dave Bennett
01-13-2012, 03:09 PM
I think that you are over thinking this amigo ;)

Look at what Safari Snorkel provides in a full kit, look at the engine side connection on the FJ Cruiser 1GR-FE kit - just a basic waterproof connection that utilizes the OEM flexible air pipe.

That said, I ran #1 for several years with no negative effect. The only downside was that it was kind of a PITA to change air filters so I recently changed it over to #2 so that the connection would be flexible enough to allow for easy service without disassembly. Like #1, #2 is working great too performance wise, it really boils down to personal preference.

#3 looks difficult since your hose clamp will be hard to reach and that "snout" on the OEM intake that pokes into the fender is kinda stubby and odd shaped... Seems like that would be a hard connection to make compared to 1 or 2...

YMMV.

upcountry
01-13-2012, 03:42 PM
I think that you are over thinking this amigo ;)

Look at what Safari Snorkel provides in a full kit, look at the engine side connection on the FJ Cruiser 1GR-FE kit - no resonator, just a basic waterproof connection.

That said, I ran #1 for several years with no negative effect. The only downside was that it was kind of a PITA to change air filters so I recently changed it over to #2 so that the connection would be flexible enough to allow for easy service without disassembly. Like #1, #2 is working great too performance wise, it really boils down to personal preference.

#3 looks difficult since your hose clamp will be hard to reach and that "snout" on the OEM intake that pokes into the fender is kinda stubby and odd shaped... Seems like that would be a hard connection to make compared to 1 or 2...

YMMV.

Not sure I am "Over thinking it" - although I have been guilty of that in the past!!! I am only trying to explore other ways of making the connection and am asking the "jury" of my peers for ideas.

Thanks for the baseline info that the other Safari Snorkel kits dont include a resonator and there is no issue with those (i.e. FJ kits).

I have an idea how to modify method #3 to get it to work with a different connection method. I need to take some measurements and get some silicone adapters, but I think it might work and fit inside the fender, but then again method #2 makes a clean connection and seems very straightforward to install. Method #1 seems like a good way to do it too, and some have cited performance improvements with the smooth pipe and less bends in the airway.

By the way, this thread was not intended to question your install method - I just want to forward the ball and explore other options. I sincerely appreciate your effort to document the install and take the plunge into making this setup work. Without your effort, we would not have such detailed info making the install easier for everyone.

keezer37
01-13-2012, 09:24 PM
2) I am skeptical of using the plumbing connections as suggested and would probably opt for a silicoln automotive connector like those used to connect mandrels in turbo applications (something like this: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/hoseandclamps.htm ). Not sure how long a plumbing connection from home depot will hold up in my engine bay? any thoughts on this?

I'd feel good about using PVC. ABS, not so much. If it's good to bury in the walls of a house for drains and the ground for sprinklers, it should be okay for your fender area.

If you are comfortable with it, perhaps with option #3, (I know the hole in the fender is between PVC piping sizes, of course) but you can go to the next larger size and cut a slot along one side to decrease the circumference. Once in the hole, it will spring to size.

I fashioned a short 90 degree to scoop air back in the days of K&N Air Intakes. Cut the slot along the inside corner. Worked well. Sat in there firmly. No rattling about.

downhill
01-14-2012, 02:39 AM
A variation on option #1 would be to use stainless flexible exhaust tube. You can google it if not familiar with it. It would allow very smooth bends, smooth interior, and would also flex with the engine. Be sure and check the minimum radius of bend on the size you need though. It may not go that tight. It would look good too.

fire931
01-14-2012, 02:45 AM
When I did my 07 I used basically #3 and was very happy with it. The only other items required from what comes with the snorkel was an ABS adapter and two clamps. It was a bit of a pain to get on but once there was rock solid and I'm sure water tight. One of the biggest things I loved about that setup was that under the hood still looked totally stock.

maxama10
01-14-2012, 04:09 AM
There are some good threads out there on different forums.....I actually have seen a "wrong" way on one of the forums where a guy used a peice of galvinized furnace duct and sealed it with some silicone. That WAS wrong!!! Another guy used a full roll of duct tape to seal his up, that was also WRONG. Haha. It sounds like both ended up cleaning up the install once they had the right parts, but it was interesting to see how they temporarily adapted "other" parts to make it work!


Photo from user Maximillion2345 at Tacoma World Forum:

81603

There is a good thread on Tacoma World on the different installs that have been done if you have the patience to sift through the nonsense (and there is a lot of banter):

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/performance-tuning/141141-snorkel-installation-2nd-gen-ss135mod-1st-gen-ss170hf.html

It worked and continues to work. The downside being restriction and turbulence. None the less... holding my hand over the snorkel proves to me that the only leaks I have are at the air box where it doesn't seal 100%. Very little I can do about that however. I've yet to really look at other parts but I've been thinking about it when I saw this thread, before even seeing your post. Honestly I wouldn't have done it this way had I been at home but being 700 miles from home and working with what I had in a small town this is what I came up with.

upcountry
01-14-2012, 04:33 AM
Was tgat you who used the furnace duct? That was like an epjsode of McGiver!! Sounds like it worked though? Right? No leaks?

maxama10
01-14-2012, 05:51 AM
Correct. No leaks.