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JSimmons
02-07-2012, 01:53 AM
Hi all,

I am a lurker around these parts but have been doing quite a bit of research/searching on these forums (and others) with regard to so-called "skinny" tires. Namely, the 255, 245, 235 over a 75 or 80 sidewall are what I am interested in. Now, I have never run anything like that before so I am skeptical about the on-road manners of such a tire. To those of you running skinny tires, do you experience less control or wandering at highway speeds? The off-road benefits of skinny tires make sense to me in terms of the whole contact patch argument, etc. etc. But what sort of sacrifice is being made for those of you that daily drive your rigs as well? I guess I am asking for the skinny on skinny tires.

Just to give a quick bit of information about my rig:
'08 4Runner V6 w/ 17 inch wheels, no lift yet, more hunting/fishing/camping/exploring oriented than rock-crawling or mud-bogging. My inclination is toward all-terrain tires but they are hard to find in a skinny combo.

Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

Redline
02-07-2012, 02:31 AM
I would observe that the arguments for narrower tires are easiest to make for on-highway travel over off-highway. I'm not arguing against narrow for off-pavement, just saying narrow is certainly good on-highway.

Wes Craiglow
02-07-2012, 02:41 AM
Worry not, Joel. Long-time skinny tire guy here. Never a problem on the highway or trail.

Good luck with your choice, whatever it ends up being!

TexGX
02-07-2012, 03:17 AM
I am in the same boat. I am going with a skinner tire on my 04 GX. I like you have had a hard time finding skinny all terrain tires. I have finially narrowed it down to these:

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tires/hankook/size/viewProductDetail.do?pc=10809

They are rated very well and come in 255/75/17 which is a little over 32 inches and 50,000 mile warranty. I also have a thread in the firesite chat were others have given thier option on the tire and most are good to great:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/73049-Hankook-ATM-s

You can search the site and you will find several threads on skinny tires.

TexGX

downhill
02-07-2012, 05:47 AM
I find it amusing that you would suspect the skinny tires would be a problem on road. Quite the opposite is true! They track well, ride well, steer well, everything well. They are great on icy roads, and they don't hydroplane. I think you would be way ahead of the game by getting 16" wheels though. In the 16 there are countless excellent choices. You also want a high sidewall on a skinny tire because it works better when airing down. My favorite is the 235/85-16, 32" tall. I have found that the perfect fit for my 07 Tacoma. It clears everything without modifications, and also allows the use of chains, which for me is a no brainer. The narrow spare fits up high under the truck where it's out of the way. With chains and ARBs it's like driving a tracked vehicle. :sombrero:

upcountry
02-07-2012, 12:57 PM
Jsimmons - I like the avatar pic.

Ua mau ke eia o ka aina i ka pono o hawaii.

Myself, born and raised, upcountry Maui. Land of the Paniolo.

Regarding the tires:

X2 on the 235/85-16. I have one as a spare. It fits well.

Check out the toyo M-55 in that size. Great pattern. Heavy sidewall.

I run 285/7o/17s, but wish I had gone with a narrower tire.

I am about to add a rear swinggate bumper and will add a full size 285/70/17 as a spare.

I think the largest spare you can squeeze under a double cab short bed is a 235.

I have tried others but they hung down too low and reduced clearance and rubbed the diff cap at full articulation.

85209

85210

Owyhee H
02-07-2012, 02:13 PM
I like the 235-255 tires, Especially 235/85R16. Recently I have been lusting over the 245/75R17 which is the same height as the 235's but a little wider. I am running the stock diameter with 245/75R16 to keep my gearing and find that I am not wanting for clearance. My 245's ride well and track like rails on the pavement, no complaints at all.

skiroc
02-07-2012, 02:39 PM
I just bought a 2006 Tundra TRD 4x4 that has 265/70/16's in an off brand make. I am replacing with Michelin 245/75/16's. A little narrower and a little less aggressive will get me better mpg and be quieter on my 95% highway and 5% forest service/BLM roads.

Desert Dan
02-07-2012, 03:17 PM
255 x 17 x 75 are availble in Goodyear MTRs and GSA

I have that size Goodyear MTR on my 4 Runner and they are great.

89s rule
02-07-2012, 03:58 PM
I ran 255/75/17 on my old pickup with the Seq. rims they worked great. If you can find some KM1's Rubicon takeoffs thats your best deal. If you see snow or ice get the center lugs siped and you should be good to go.

Martinjmpr
02-07-2012, 04:10 PM
Skinny tires are great. Honestly, if I hadn't been in such a hurry to get new tires back in August I might have waited an extra week to get my new Hankook Dyna Pro AT-M's in 235/85/16. Not only skinnier but also lighter and less expensive (by about $20/tire.) I only went with 265/75/16's because they didn't have any 235's in stock and I needed tires before my Labor Day trip.

I had 235/75/16's on my 2004 Tacoma and they did fine both on and off pavement.

01tundra
02-07-2012, 04:14 PM
The next tires that go on the Tacoma will very likely be Hankook Dyna Pro MT RT03's in 235/85/16 ;).

olsen_karl
02-07-2012, 05:29 PM
Just to give a quick bit of information about my rig:
'08 4Runner V6 w/ 17 inch wheels, no lift yet, more hunting/fishing/camping/exploring oriented than rock-crawling or mud-bogging. My inclination is toward all-terrain tires but they are hard to find in a skinny combo.


I have a 2008 4Runner, SR5, V6, with factory 17" wheels. It has 255/75 Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor tires on it, no wheel spacers. Only other pertinent mods are some front fender liner relocation & trimming (no painted surfaces, only the black plastic fender liner), and Bilstein 5100 shocks (front are adjustable height, set at the +0.85" setting; rear are not adjustable). A 255/75/17 also still fits in the stock spare tire location under the rear of the vehicle.

Some photos and more discussion here: (not sure if you have to log in to be able to view photos)
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/84780-bilstein-install-2.html

I think it rides/drives/handles just fine on road and off, no noticeable difference in handling. OTOH, an old XJ Cherokee I used to have was a scary drive with ~ 4.5" lift and 33x9.5 BFG M/Ts on stock wheels -- that vehicle was much better with 32x11.5s on slightly less-backspacing wheels. The XJ had a much higher center of gravity and flexy suspension. Oh, and a Detroit locker in the rear too, which didn't do much for its on-road handling...

bigreen505
02-07-2012, 06:09 PM
Where people get into handling trouble is putting too narrow of a tire on too wide of a rim. Sure, 235/85 is a great size, but not on an 8" rim. Also, I think wider tires feel better in off camber situations with a top heavy vehicle.

Redline
02-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Where people get into handling trouble is putting too narrow of a tire on too wide of a rim. Sure, 235/85 is a great size, but not on an 8" rim. Also, I think wider tires feel better in off camber situations with a top heavy vehicle.

Excellent reminder!

Just like we need wider wheels for a good fit for wider, aftermarket tires... If we have wide-ish wheels, super narrow tires like 235s may be too narrow for our wheels.

ScottyDog
02-08-2012, 12:20 AM
Love the skinny look! I think I've always loved the expedition style Land Cruisers / Land Rovers seen in documentaries I used to watch as a kid... wait, what am I talking about.. I still watch em!!. My wife rolls her eyes when we (my boys & I) catch a glimpse of a Land Cruiser or RR on the Discovery Channel or Nat Geo.

Anyway, at one time my brother, my son and I all ran the same tire/ wheel combo (255 85 16 BFG KM2s on Tacoma/Tundra steelies) on all three of our vehicles + spares to make it easily interchangeable. They all drove great, however I did have to run 1.25 spacers on my FZJ80 as it got a little wobbly as the wheels/tires sucked in a little bit. But on my brothers Tacoma and my son's FJ62 it was fine..

Here are a few pics

My FZJ80, Son's ex-FJ62 and my brother's ex-04 Tacoma
85313
85314
85315

My Brothers.. ex-FJ60
85316
85319

downhill
02-08-2012, 02:14 AM
Where people get into handling trouble is putting too narrow of a tire on too wide of a rim. Sure, 235/85 is a great size, but not on an 8" rim. Also, I think wider tires feel better in off camber situations with a top heavy vehicle.

yep, the 7" stock wheels work well with the 235s. They would work on a 6" or 6.5" too. Unfortunately there just isn't squat for aftermarket narrow wheels. I wouldn't use an 8" on a 235.

targa88
02-08-2012, 03:50 AM
AS much as I like the "skinny" tyres (255-85-16) my issues has always been with the availability when travelling - should you require a replacement tyre.
Not easy to find and not a common size.... IMHO...

ljtuck
02-08-2012, 04:11 AM
I run 235/85/16 on my Dakota most of the time on 6.5 inch steelies. They are a Hankook mud terrain, however, and as great as they are in snow they kinda suck on ice so I run street tires with siping for the winter usually. Drives great on the highway (way less wandering than fat tires) as well as most anywhere else I go.

85342

JSimmons
02-08-2012, 05:12 AM
Hey guys,

Wow! Some great replies from all of you. Thank you very much for the words of wisdom.




Worry not, Joel. Long-time skinny tire guy here. Never a problem on the highway or trail.

Good luck with your choice, whatever it ends up being!

Thank you for the reassurance, 6string!


I am in the same boat. I am going with a skinner tire on my 04 GX. I like you have had a hard time finding skinny all terrain tires. I have finially narrowed it down to these:

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tires/hankook/size/viewProductDetail.do?pc=10809

They are rated very well and come in 255/75/17 which is a little over 32 inches and 50,000 mile warranty. I also have a thread in the firesite chat were others have given thier option on the tire and most are good to great:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/73049-Hankook-ATM-s

You can search the site and you will find several threads on skinny tires.

TexGX

Tex - Thank you for the heads-up. That looks to be a decent tire at a fair price. I have been thinking about the 255/75/17 size in a couple of brands. Off the top of my head, I think General Tire and Cooper may also make one in that size...I might be mistaken.


I would observe that the arguments for narrower tires are easiest to make for on-highway travel over off-highway. I'm not arguing against narrow for off-pavement, just saying narrow is certainly good on-highway.


I find it amusing that you would suspect the skinny tires would be a problem on road. Quite the opposite is true! They track well, ride well, steer well, everything well. They are great on icy roads, and they don't hydroplane. I think you would be way ahead of the game by getting 16" wheels though. In the 16 there are countless excellent choices. You also want a high sidewall on a skinny tire because it works better when airing down. My favorite is the 235/85-16, 32" tall. I have found that the perfect fit for my 07 Tacoma. It clears everything without modifications, and also allows the use of chains, which for me is a no brainer. The narrow spare fits up high under the truck where it's out of the way. With chains and ARBs it's like driving a tracked vehicle. :sombrero:

The reason I was worrisome about the on-road behavior of skinny tires, is because outside of off-road rigs, I'm a big BMW fan. I've had several that were quasi-race prepped, and better handling for sportier cars usually means, wide, sticky tires. Ergo, my initial assessment would be that driving something with a higher center of gravity with narrower tires would detract from the rig's on-road manners with stock rubber. However, both of you have given me a much better feeling about going with a narrower tire on the 4Runner. Especially the tracked vehicle comment...I just saw 2 LMTVs and 4 HMMWVs get stuck in some serious mud on Fort Campbell these past few days. And they are all equipped with big, wide, Goodyear M/Ts.


Jsimmons - I like the avatar pic.

Ua mau ke eia o ka aina i ka pono o hawaii.

Myself, born and raised, upcountry Maui. Land of the Paniolo.


upcountry - I gotta admit that I was born and raised in Oregon. But, I graduated from UH Manoa and my wife is from Waialua, O'ahu. Still have plenty family in the islands and it feels like home no matter where I go. And I'm probably one of the only haoles you'll meet who likes poi and poke. I would kill for lau lau right now. I never made it to Maui. Most of my friends are from Kauai' or the Big Island.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab215/Simmons808/2008%20Toyota%204Runner/4Runner1.jpg

See the islands on the basket fairing?


I just bought a 2006 Tundra TRD 4x4 that has 265/70/16's in an off brand make. I am replacing with Michelin 245/75/16's. A little narrower and a little less aggressive will get me better mpg and be quieter on my 95% highway and 5% forest service/BLM roads.

I'm in the same boat. 95% highway driving with 5% mild trails...haven't gotten into anything extreme.


255 x 17 x 75 are availble in Goodyear MTRs and GSA

I have that size Goodyear MTR on my 4 Runner and they are great.


I have a 2008 4Runner, SR5, V6, with factory 17" wheels. It has 255/75 Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor tires on it, no wheel spacers. Only other pertinent mods are some front fender liner relocation & trimming (no painted surfaces, only the black plastic fender liner), and Bilstein 5100 shocks (front are adjustable height, set at the +0.85" setting; rear are not adjustable). A 255/75/17 also still fits in the stock spare tire location under the rear of the vehicle.

Some photos and more discussion here: (not sure if you have to log in to be able to view photos)
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/84780-bilstein-install-2.html

I think it rides/drives/handles just fine on road and off, no noticeable difference in handling. OTOH, an old XJ Cherokee I used to have was a scary drive with ~ 4.5" lift and 33x9.5 BFG M/Ts on stock wheels -- that vehicle was much better with 32x11.5s on slightly less-backspacing wheels. The XJ had a much higher center of gravity and flexy suspension. Oh, and a Detroit locker in the rear too, which didn't do much for its on-road handling...

Dan, Karl - seems like 255/75/17 is the size to go with. I too have those same factory 17" wheels (from your photos) but I am not 100% sure on their width. I think I remember reading somewhere that they were 7" wide. ??

It seems like the vast majority of your guys suggest going with a 16" wheel for the sake of all those tires options. As it was pointed out, 255/75/17 might not be a common size if you get yourself in a bind. But, I'm not so sure the Wife wants yet another set of stock wheels stacked up in the garage. Is there a market for these stock 17s? Anyhow...again, thank you very much for the input and advice. This is a great forum with great people. I'm active on a few auto-related forums and this is one of the best.

skiroc
02-08-2012, 05:45 AM
This is a great forum with great people. I'm active on a few auto-related forums and this is one of the best.

Agreed. What I like about this forum is that folks are generally focused on function, not looks. On some of the truck specific forums a typical post might be "how do these tires look" and they get lots of responses, with not one person asking about how they are going to be used. Even though this is an expo related forum, if "skinny" m/s tires meet the need, people say so.

When I was looking to get a new (used) truck, I was surprised how many fully loaded 4x4's with tow packages are out there, and the owner had never taken it off road or towed anything. They got all that stuff along with the TRD decal, paid a hefty price, just because it looked cool... which of course was good for me!

JSimmons
02-08-2012, 05:51 AM
When I was looking to get a new (used) truck, I was surprised how many fully loaded 4x4's with tow packages are out there, and the owner had never taken it off road or towed anything. They got all that stuff along with the TRD decal, paid a hefty price, just because it looked cool.

Exactly what I found when I bought my '08 4Runner.

01tundra
02-08-2012, 12:28 PM
AS much as I like the "skinny" tyres (255-85-16) my issues has always been with the availability when travelling - should you require a replacement tyre.
Not easy to find and not a common size.... IMHO...

That's a very good point and something I always consider when making changes to my vehicles.......learned that one the hard way ;)!

olsen_karl
02-08-2012, 02:01 PM
Dan, Karl - seems like 255/75/17 is the size to go with. I too have those same factory 17" wheels (from your photos) but I am not 100% sure on their width. I think I remember reading somewhere that they were 7" wide. ??

It seems like the vast majority of your guys suggest going with a 16" wheel for the sake of all those tires options. As it was pointed out, 255/75/17 might not be a common size if you get yourself in a bind. But, I'm not so sure the Wife wants yet another set of stock wheels stacked up in the garage. Is there a market for these stock 17s?

Those 17" wheels are 7.5" wide. A 16" wheel will fit on the 4th gen SR5 4Runner, but not on the Sport (bigger front brake) or the Limited with the big brake option. I use 16" wheels for my snow tire set (with 245/75 tires) because they were available cheap on craigslist, and 16" tires tend to be less expensive than 17".

FWIW, the 255/75/17 tire is the stock tire size on the JK Jeep Wrangler Rubicon.

Another tire size to consider is 265/75/16 or 265/70/17; both will fit on the 4th gen without rubbing or huge lifts, and will fit in the stock spare tire space. But these aren't tall/skinny tires.

CodyB
02-08-2012, 03:15 PM
I really like the Toyo Mt 235/85/R16 tires I have on my 09 DCLB Tacoma. The tires provide great clearance under the truck and fit fine with an OME suspension. That size is also readily available since many dually trucks run that size. The load range E makes them a bit stiff but they get the job done.

Redline
02-08-2012, 03:46 PM
snip...

Another tire size to consider is 265/75/16 or 265/70/17; both will fit on the 4th gen without rubbing or huge lifts, and will fit in the stock spare tire space. But these aren't tall/skinny tires.

They may not be tall and skinny but they are pretty great sizes, as you know. 265 mm wide is about where I draw the line for a narrowish tire, I really noticed the difference when flipping between 265/75 and 285/75 several months ago. 285s are wide (the new normal), but 265s not really. Not super tall, but pretty good at 31.6–31.9" depending on the tire. And the tire choices are almost endless.

Danimal
02-08-2012, 04:18 PM
I really like the Toyo Mt 235/85/R16 tires I have on my 09 DCLB Tacoma. The tires provide great clearance under the truck and fit fine with an OME suspension. That size is also readily available since many dually trucks run that size. The load range E makes them a bit stiff but they get the job done.

Cody, any pictures of this set up on your truck? I'm considering this exact tire for my 11 DCSB, but I'm not looking to lift the truck.

Dan

Utah KJ
02-08-2012, 08:15 PM
I've always bought the 235/85R16 MT/R. The cool thing about this size in an MT/R is it's the only size they make without white lettering; it makes the other MT/R users jealous.

Redline
02-08-2012, 08:29 PM
You're right, blackwalls are the best, wish I could get more of 'my tires' with plain black sidewalls (on both sides).

Owyhee H
02-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Cody, any pictures of this set up on your truck? I'm considering this exact tire for my 11 DCSB, but I'm not looking to lift the truck.

Dan

I have a 2011 and had the 235/85R16's on for a while they fit great and there is no problem with rubbing or other. The only reason i switched was I wanted stock gearing (4cyl). These are the same diameter as the 265/75R16 and they fit without rubbing. Sorry I dont have any pics of these with no lift.

Utah KJ
02-08-2012, 09:37 PM
You're right, blackwalls are the best, wish I could get more of 'my tires' with plain black sidewalls (on both sides).

Since 235/85R16 are dually tires, they don't bother.

Redline
02-09-2012, 04:40 AM
Since 235/85R16 are dually tires, they don't bother.

Yep, dually tires now, but for many years it was the heavy-duty pickup tire size for the big three, including SRW trucks.

JSimmons
02-09-2012, 04:46 AM
Hmmm...lots of good points out there. I'm tempted to look for some cheapo 16" take-offs on craigslist. Seems like a much greater selection available, which probably means those respective tire sizes may be more readily available in more locations. If I decide to stick with the 17" wheels, I think I will look for some 255/75/17 tires. Lastly, since those 17" wheels are 7.5" wide, what cross section is going to be too skinny for them? 235? 245?

Again, thank you for all the great input.

JSimmons
02-09-2012, 04:50 AM
Yep, dually tires now, but for many years it was the heavy-duty pickup tire size for the big three, including SRW trucks.

Redline - I like your roadtraveler.net website. Good stuff.

downhill
02-09-2012, 01:56 PM
on a 7.5 wheel, a 245 would work. IMO it's too wide for the 235. I've got 235s on a 7" wheel and they work well, even aired down. I wouldn't go wider though. The 235/85-16 is very easy to find and the choices in tires are great.

Redline
02-09-2012, 02:48 PM
on a 7.5 wheel, a 245 would work. IMO it's too wide for the 235. I've got 235s on a 7" wheel and they work well, even aired down. I wouldn't go wider though. The 235/85-16 is very easy to find and the choices in tires are great.

x2. Mr. Downhill is exactly right.

I've run 235/85R16 on 7" wheels on my heavy F350 (the stock wheels), aired down, rock crawling in Moab (years ago). A 7" wheel is listed as the maximum width allowable for the LT235/85R16 size by most manufacturers. Maximum, but it works well, remember that when reading below.

I typically advocate for more sidewall and less wheel when it's practical, which you may have read on my blog (http://roadtraveler.net/wheels-tires-and-sidewalls), and I agree that 16" wheels are great. However, let me make an argument for the 17" wheels you already have.

Though I've long been a 16" tire/wheel guy I've had to study and learn a little about the larger wheel sizes because my Tundra won't take sixteens. Seventeen inch equivalents to most of the common 16" sizes are readily available, and don't seem to cost tons more. There is something important about the 17" wheels you have, they are 7.5-inches wide. There is a 17" equivalent to the 235/85R16, the 235/80R17. The maximum rim width for this size is 7.5", not 7". So you can run a very narrow, tall tire with your 17" wheels. But wait there is more... ;)

A 7.5-inch wide wheel is the minimum width that also works for the wider 285 tires (in both 17" & 16"). They are also great for 265s should you want them in the future (though 7s would work too), the 265 is a great size. You may be thinking that you will never run a wider tire like a 285, maybe so. There are few more fervent, decades long advocates for the 255/85R16 size than this here Tire Meister, but even I have become a 285 guy for tread choice and necessity. Your 7.5" wheels are very versatile.

Because of this, I'm actually shopping for a set of 6-spoke, 4th Gen. 4Runner Sport 17" wheels for my 4Runner. These 17x7.5" wheels will allow me to take tires from my Tundra and put them on the 4Runner.

James

downhill
02-09-2012, 07:45 PM
Interesting.......Any idea why the 235/80-17 can take the wider 7.5 wheel? It isn't obvious to me, but now I'm curious. :ylsmoke:

downhill
02-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Redline,
You make a good case for the 17's. I also usually favor narrow wheels to keep the rims tucked back. However, I think there is a good argument for the wider extreme when using very narrow tires. I initially went looking 6" or 6.5" wheels. Where did they all go? I found nothing to fit my Taco! After having run the 7" now for almost 2 years and visiting Moab as well as seeing tons of mud, I'm not sure that 7 isn't the best choice. On the very narrow tires you don't have the same stability side to side that would on say a 285. It feels to me like the wider wheel stabilizes the narrow tire better, especially when aired down. Below are two pics. The aluminim tube is 1" and you can see that the sidewall bulge is just 5/8". On this tire anyway you sure wouldn't want less than that, but this combination has been amazing both on and off the road.8560385604

Desert Dan
02-10-2012, 12:23 AM
Here are a few pictures of the 255 x 75 x 17 on my 4 Runner.



I would prefere a 16" rim and a 75 series tire so I would have more sidewall height.

scrubber3
02-10-2012, 12:53 AM
FWIW, I have a 2nd Gen Montero. They came with 15x 6 to 7 standard. These fit toyotas as far as the center and bolt pattern go(not sure about brake clearance). Don't know if a 15 inch rim will work for you, but it is more rubber to have greater side wall flex therefore increasing traction. You can fit skinnys on these pretty darned easy. I know you can find these as cheap as dirt too. With some black wheel paint they look great. Might be worth looking into, especially if you are on a budget.

I tend to roam around the toyota threads to get ideas for my rig. Lots of interchangeable parts.

JSimmons
02-10-2012, 03:21 AM
x2. Mr. Downhill is exactly right.

I've run 235/85R16 on 7" wheels on my heavy F350 (the stock wheels), aired down, rock crawling in Moab (years ago). A 7" wheel is listed as the maximum width allowable for the LT235/85R16 size by most manufacturers. Maximum, but it works well, remember that when reading below.

I typically advocate for more sidewall and less wheel when it's practical, which you may have read on my blog (http://roadtraveler.net/wheels-tires-and-sidewalls), and I agree that 16" wheels are great. However, let me make an argument for the 17" wheels you already have.

Though I've long been a 16" tire/wheel guy I've had to study and learn a little about the larger wheel sizes because my Tundra won't take sixteens. Seventeen inch equivalents to most of the common 16" sizes are readily available, and don't seem to cost tons more. There is something important about the 17" wheels you have, they are 7.5-inches wide. There is a 17" equivalent to the 235/85R16, the 235/80R17. The maximum rim width for this size is 7.5", not 7". So you can run a very narrow, tall tire with your 17" wheels. But wait there is more... ;)

A 7.5-inch wide wheel is the minimum width that also works for the wider 285 tires (in both 17" & 16"). They are also great for 265s should you want them in the future (though 7s would work too), the 265 is a great size. You may be thinking that you will never run a wider tire like a 285, maybe so. There are few more fervent, decades long advocates for the 255/85R16 size than this here Tire Meister, but even I have become a 285 guy for tread choice and necessity. Your 7.5" wheels are very versatile.

Because of this, I'm actually shopping for a set of 6-spoke, 4th Gen. 4Runner Sport 17" wheels for my 4Runner. These 17x7.5" wheels will allow me to take tires from my Tundra and put them on the 4Runner.

James

James - Thanks for the enlightening explanation on my 17" wheels. I think I did find a few 235/80R17 tires out there but I was unsure if those would actually fit on the 7.5" width wheel, or if they were just too narrow for the street. I think I would much prefer to just keep the wheels I already have to prevent even more car parts from cluttering up my garage. I like to try and work with what I already have as much as possible.

Now, another question is this: does it matter what type of tread pattern you run on those skinny tires? Looking at a lot of the photos that some folks posted, it appears that mud-terrains are very popular. I'm partial to all-terrains because the majority of my time is spent on pavement. Any reason why I should not shy away from the mud-terrains?


FWIW, I have a 2nd Gen Montero. They came with 15x 6 to 7 standard. These fit toyotas as far as the center and bolt pattern go(not sure about brake clearance). Don't know if a 15 inch rim will work for you, but it is more rubber to have greater side wall flex therefore increasing traction. You can fit skinnys on these pretty darned easy. I know you can find these as cheap as dirt too. With some black wheel paint they look great. Might be worth looking into, especially if you are on a budget.

I tend to roam around the toyota threads to get ideas for my rig. Lots of interchangeable parts.

Thanks for the tip. What other parts have you discovered that are interchangeable?

downhill
02-10-2012, 04:10 AM
Mine are called "mud terrains" but the tread is really an AT pattern. I think one would work as well as another mechanically. It's just a matter of what you prefer.85661

Redline
02-10-2012, 04:42 AM
Redline - I like your roadtraveler.net website. Good stuff.

Glad you like it!

I'm just getting off my duff and trying to post regularly, and I can always use more readers to make it worth my time :)

86Runner
02-10-2012, 04:49 AM
I've been flip flopping about the 265/70/16 vs 235/85/16 as well. Luckily I have some time to think about it. Here are a couple other discussions on skinny vs wide tires:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/61-2nd-generation-2005/270374-235-85-16-vs-265-75-16-a.html
www.toyotanation.com/forum/61-2nd-generation-2005/270268-super-epic-tire-thread-pertaining-pizza-cutter-cooper-sts-tire-weights.html

Redline
02-10-2012, 05:33 AM
Redline,
You make a good case for the 17's. I also usually favor narrow wheels to keep the rims tucked back. However, I think there is a good argument for the wider extreme when using very narrow tires. I initially went looking 6" or 6.5" wheels. Where did they all go? I found nothing to fit my Taco! After having run the 7" now for almost 2 years and visiting Moab as well as seeing tons of mud, I'm not sure that 7 isn't the best choice. On the very narrow tires you don't have the same stability side to side that would on say a 285. snip...

Yes, I think we agree on most or all points. I'll share some more experiences.

Narrower wheels do have the theoretical advantage of keeping the bead seated tightly on the rim, however if we let a bit too much air out, peeling a bead will still occur, I've done it with wider 255s on a nice, narrow 7" wheel. I also like the wheel tucked back as you say to keep the wheel a little protected from damage, though I seemed to scuff all my 7.5" 4Runner wheels over the past few years on the rocks, even with 'wide' 285s providing some protection. I've run 285s on 0.5" too narrow 7" wheels, and I don't care for it. 285s are much better on the 7.5" minimum or 8" wheels.

I see that you are running the Dean SXT Mud-Terrain, I think in 235/85R16? I ran a set of those Deans and a set of Cooper S/T (a close relative) both in 255/85R16. Despite having a section width close to that of a typical 255/85, these tires have very narrow tread width, very close to many 235s, and they drive like that too.

I ran the Dean SXTs on 8" wide Jeep wheels and the Cooper S/T on 7.5" Toyota wheels. One can argue that the ideal semi-narrow wheel width for a 255/85 is a 7" rim, however I've run 255/85s on 7, 7.5, and 8" wheels with no apparent consequences, including lots of low pressures. All depends on the tire, wheel, and truck (and driver).

The Cooper S/T (NOT the new S/T MAXX) & Dean SXT MT are flexible and soft, and don't offer much lateral sidewall support as you mentioned. I agree part of this is from the narrow width, and part of it comes from the softer construction. For example, the super stiff sidewalls on the Toyo MT in a 255/85 don't feel they same. They are not flexible, and have more lateral support from the very stiff sidewall construction, even though they are a relatively narrow 255/85 size...I ran a set briefly.

In addition to possible sidewall lean, a narrow tire like a 235 doesn't offer much later support/stability because of its narrow track. But track width and support is increased with a wider wheel, and I think that's what we are aware of. In the case of the Original Poster, if he runs a 235mm tire on a 7.5" wheel instead of a 7" wheel, then the truck would have a 0.5" wider overall track width, not taking into account any differences in wheel offset/backspacing. Overall width would only be 0.5", but the overall wheel footprint width would be 1.0" (0.5" x 2 from a wheel on each side of the car), I'm pretty sure that is something we can feel and affects handling and vehicle dynamics (like all changes do).

Redline
02-10-2012, 05:47 AM
James - Thanks for the enlightening explanation on my 17" wheels. I think I did find a few 235/80R17 tires out there but I was unsure if those would actually fit on the 7.5" width wheel, or if they were just too narrow for the street. I think I would much prefer to just keep the wheels I already have to prevent even more car parts from cluttering up my garage. I like to try and work with what I already have as much as possible.

Now, another question is this: does it matter what type of tread pattern you run on those skinny tires? Looking at a lot of the photos that some folks posted, it appears that mud-terrains are very popular. I'm partial to all-terrains because the majority of my time is spent on pavement. Any reason why I should not shy away from the mud-terrains?


A 235/85R16 or a 235/80R17 are not too narrow for the street, they are great on-road.

Keeping your wheels will save you money, clutter, and add flexibility to future tire choices (widths). You may decide you want 235s now, but 265s next time.

The tread pattern does not matter, you can run any tread you desire, all-terrain tires are good. Search by size on www.tirerack.com to look at many different treads in whatever size you want. Based on your search results you will also have a good idea of how popular a size is.

There are many more tread choices in the 265/70R17 size than the 235/80R17 size, one of the reasons I would personally lean toward a 265, in addition to my personal experience running a 265 on my built 4Runner, they worked very well.

All of the sizes we have been discussing in this thread are readily available in both 16 & 17" wheels, with the exception of the 255/85R16, and they are not what you want anyway.

James

ljtuck
02-10-2012, 02:35 PM
Now, another question is this: does it matter what type of tread pattern you run on those skinny tires? Looking at a lot of the photos that some folks posted, it appears that mud-terrains are very popular. I'm partial to all-terrains because the majority of my time is spent on pavement. Any reason why I should not shy away from the mud-terrains?

MT's are noisier on the pavement. Also, unless you can get some with decent siping (or have them siped), MT's really are not that great in icy conditions, but that may not be a concern where you live. I use MT's most of the time during the summer, but usually change to street tires if I am taking the truck on long highway trips. I don't usually use the MT's in the winter where I live because there are a good number of days with icy roads (most of my winter driving is in my car with studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5's (http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11890&group=1.01&name=Nokian) at all 4 corners. Those tires go anywhere in the winter!). However, I have had great success with the skinny MT's in snow.

downhill
02-10-2012, 04:50 PM
In addition to possible sidewall lean, a narrow tire like a 235 doesn't offer much later support/stability because of its narrow track.

True. I added 1" spacers to my wheels for the sole purpose of increasing the track width.

JSimmons
02-12-2012, 04:06 AM
Hi Guys,

Yes, I have been on Tirerack.com a bunch of times for a variety of cars. I've searched quite a bit on there and various other places for several different sizes of tires. I think I will probably go with something skinnier than the 265s I'm currently running, but I might do what downhill did and put some spacers on there to increase the track width.

Nokians have always been tempting but I have not lived in an area with significant snow/ice for some time, so I'll probably hold off on trying those for a while. Still split on the M/T vs. A/T tires. I think I will just have to take a close look at the tread design to see exactly what characteristics the tire may exhibit. Don't want anything too noisy but I don't just want a fancy all-season touring tire either.

The variety of 16" tires is tempting but I think I'd rather avoid the additional clutter in the garage by sticking with the 17" wheels.

This has been a great discussion (or education session), and again I appreciate all the input from everyone on this great forum. Glad to be here.

TexGX
02-12-2012, 04:38 AM
Check out my Hankook ATM's 255/75/17. I just got them so can not give my option yet other then the size worked with out my lift and are quiet.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/67034-The-Time-Has-Come-My-GX-build/page9

TexGX

mvbeggs
02-12-2012, 04:50 PM
.... I've got 235s on a 7" wheel and they work well, even aired down. I wouldn't go wider though. The 235/85-16 is very easy to find and the choices in tires are great.

Downhill,

Too bad the 16x8 stock wheels are too wide for the 235's. Where did you find the 7" wheel for your 235's? (I saw the pcis of your rig and it looked like you were running stock wheels.. Downhill's rig? (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/72225-Whitewater-Assault-Vehicle-2007-TRD-OR-Access-Cab-6Spd?p=1024924#post1024924))

Edited 02-13-2012: The 2012 stock Tacoma wheels are specified at 16x7. It was verified with my dealer this morning.

downhill
02-12-2012, 07:35 PM
Downhill,

Too bad the 16x8 stock wheels are too wide for the 235's. Where did you find the 7" wheel for your 235's? (I saw the pcis of your rig and it looked like you were running stock wheels.. Downhill's rig? (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/72225-Whitewater-Assault-Vehicle-2007-TRD-OR-Access-Cab-6Spd?p=1024924#post1024924))

Yep, mine are stock. No other real options for the Tacoma in a 7". I wasn't aware Toyota had an 16x8" stock wheel. I've only seen the 16x7. Luckily they are a good wheel, just not my first choice in style but oh well. Sent you a PM with some info you might be able to use.

mvbeggs
02-12-2012, 09:15 PM
Yep, mine are stock. No other real options for the Tacoma in a 7". I wasn't aware Toyota had an 16x8" stock wheel. I've only seen the 16x7. Luckily they are a good wheel, just not my first choice in style but oh well. Sent you a PM with some info you might be able to use.

Got the PM and responded. Thanks.

Well, I had the tires off the rims last week and I thought I measured the rim width from outside to outside at 8 1/4". Inside to inside was close to 8". Interesting comment on the 7" rim width. You've got me wondering if I misread the tape measure. :Wow1:

My backspace on the wheel looked to be about 5 1/4" which gave about an inch of clearance between the upper control arm and the inside edge of the 265 tires. Looked pretty tight in there. 235's would give all kinds of room to clear the UCA.

I'll confirm my rim width and report back.

downhill
02-12-2012, 09:45 PM
The way wheel width is measured is a little funky, but yeah Toyota specs them at 7". I think it is based on the bead itself. I've never actually measured mine with a tape. I've noticed in the past with other wheels that my measurements always seemed greater than the designation.

mvbeggs
02-13-2012, 04:41 PM
Got the PM and responded. Thanks.

Well, I had the tires off the rims last week and I thought I measured the rim width from outside to outside at 8 1/4". Inside to inside was close to 8". Interesting comment on the 7" rim width. You've got me wondering if I misread the tape measure. :Wow1:....

I'll confirm my rim width and report back.


The way wheel width is measured is a little funky, but yeah Toyota specs them at 7". I think it is based on the bead itself. I've never actually measured mine with a tape. I've noticed in the past with other wheels that my measurements always seemed greater than the designation.

Downhill is correct that the Tacoma wheels are spec'd at 16x7.

I verified this morning with the dealer' parts department, using my VIN, that the wheels for the 2012 Tacoma Double Cab with the Off Road Package is 16x7.

brevity_thing
01-15-2013, 03:20 PM
I wanted to wake up this thread to check on a couple of things. There is some great information here.

First I have a 1995 Wrangler riding on 16x7 rims, and I would love to run 235/85r16's instead of the worn out 285/75r16 I run now. My concern is the width, I used to run 31x10.5-15 tires on 15x8 rims, and I had a lot of bead issues. On tough off road climbs, a rock or even just on mud on a heavy side-load could pop a bead. Also wood fibers got jammed in the beads, and I would have to air down partially to remove the fibers afterward. With the 285 series on the 7" wide rims, I have had zero issues. But on the road, the 285 series tire is too much for my vehicle. The Jeep has a 2.5L engine with a 4.88:1 gear ratio, and it is a little too much weight and rolling resistance with this tire. I consider myself mostly a trail rider, but I do sometimes drive trails that are classified as "Difficult". I prefer to drive the Jeep rather than tow it when I go on out-of-state trips to camp and ride trails. So is it the consensus here that the 235/86r16 would work fine on a 7" wide rim, even aired down? Fender clearance is not an issue as I am currently clearing the 285 tires even fully articulated on the trail.

The other thing that I was curious about is my truck, I currently have a 265/75r17 tire on 8" wide rims which is great. The truck is mostly used on road, but does go onto the beach or dirt roads from time to time on vacations or camping trips. I would like to use a little bit taller tire, and I was wondering if the 255 series would be okay on the 8" wide rim, or if I should use the more common 285 series. The truck has a leveling kit installed and long travel shocks, so clearance will be fine with the taller tire. It drives and rides great currently, it has a 5.3L engine and 3.73:1 gear ratio.

Great site, I hope someday to be outfitted more than I am now. Currently I just pack a fire grate, firewood, tent/sleeping bag/air mattress, and a few other odds and ends :) In the Wrangler there is barely room for those things and recovery gear.

Plannerman
01-15-2013, 05:12 PM
I ran 255/75/17 on my old pickup with the Seq. rims they worked great. If you can find some KM1's Rubicon takeoffs thats your best deal. If you see snow or ice get the center lugs siped and you should be good to go.

I found a set last month for good deal and love the tire. It turns out that the Rubicon spec'ed tire is not terribly heavy, too, which is a nice bonus (almost the same weight as my 265/70/17 ATs).

I recently ran 265s and 285 (I've been experimenting) and find the road manners of the 255 are quite good. The skinnier tires do track better on the highway. Unfortunately, they are quite a bit louder.

Plannerman
01-16-2013, 05:27 AM
Brevity, I am running 255s on a 7.5" width rim with no problems. I would imagine 8" would be fine.

Redline
01-16-2013, 01:31 PM
I wanted to wake up this thread to check on a couple of things. There is some great information here.snip...

In short, all of your proposed tire/wheel combinations are fine, and within the specifications for the tires you've mentioned. A 265/75R16 on an 8" wheel might be the loosest fit, but I still think it's fine.

As you probably know, bead retention has much to do with your psi, the load, how you drive, etc. Many variables, but I would have no concerns running any of the combinations you've suggested, and I have except for a 265 on an 8" wheel.

A 255/85R16 on an 8" wheel is not a problem, I ran that combo for many thousands of miles on my 2005 Jeep, including rock crawling in Moab.

A 285/75 on a 7" is actually 1/2" narrower than spec. Many do it and this can work fine, though I do prefer 7.5" or 8" wheels with 285s for overall tire/wheel fit.

235/85 on a 7" was the stock fitment on my old F350, I still use the OE wheels, but with 255/85 tires. Either tire works well on a 7" wheel.

A 31x15.50R15 on an 8" wheel is in the middle of the spec. Surprised you have had so many issues with bead retention, but again psi, the wheel, the driver, etc. all impact your results.

chequamegon
01-17-2013, 01:01 AM
I have read a lot of the arguments for skinny tires, but I am pretty new to this whole deal. They seemed to make sense, so I decided to give it a try.

Just bought 235/85-16 Bridgestone Commercial Traction tires on TRD 16" rims. Got them mounted up tonight.

Excellent road manners, and actually not too much noise for a pretty knobby tire, only a slight bit more noise than the all-season 265/65-17s they replaced. Much less than I thought, and I think that probably has to do with the smaller contact patch. Handling is great, no negative effects. Haven't gotten off road yet, but I am excited to give it a try.

JSimmons
03-07-2013, 06:13 PM
Hello all,

Good to see some great discussion on the skinny tires out there. Been a while since I've visited this thread. Do I have some skinny tires yet? Nope. Hopefully get some this Summer after a return from overseas. Still leaning toward the 255/75 R17s in some version. In addition to the arguments in favor of pizza cutters on the trail, this tire size appeals to me because it is the stock Wrangler Rubicon size which means replacements should be plentiful. Plus, it fits the stock spare tire storage location on my 4th Gen 4Runner.

Anyhow...good to see others are benefitting from my initial curiosity. :beer:

stioc
03-07-2013, 06:38 PM
Only problem with the 235/85/16 is I have yet to find one with less than E load range which are stiff as heck and rattle your fillings out over washboards. For that reason only I'll be going with a 265/75/16 which is the same diameter but about 1.5" wider and a whole lot lighter than an E rated tire too.