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cwvandy
02-10-2012, 08:58 PM
For several years I have been reading posts throughout the Portal and learning a great deal from others' knowledge and experience. As a regular lurker and sometimes "poster", thanks to everyone for the huge body of information that has been collected and special thanks to the organizers and moderators for making this a go-to site for over-landers.

This week I started a project that I thought I would share. I have a '09 Tacoma which has been heavily modified for overland travel. The one area that I have been struggling with is how to carry enough fuel for my not-so fuel efficient rig (even less so because of the weight from gear) . My solution has been a couple of 5 gallon gerry cans on a custom bumper made by Megatech. While Metaltech's work was top-knotch, I wanted a better solution. I could not find anyone building an aftermarket second tank or replacement tank to increase capacity and decided to have one built here in town. The outfit I went to is Custom Exhaust Specialties in Bend, Oregon. They had helped me with a number of other projects including sliders and a custom electrical panel and I knew they did terrific work.

I had contemplated a second tank where the spare tired was carried, but the additional pumping, transfer pumps and/or fills, wiring etc. made me decide to instead replace the Toyota tank with a larger custom built, 14 gauge steel tank. The goal was to squeeze as much fuel into a new baffled tank while maintaining clearance, using the existing vents, pickups, fuel level gauges & wiring. The goal was to also make it as large as possible.

After removing the factory tank, the first order of business was to make a cardboard template of the new tank and fill every possible nook and cranny to maximize capacity. The depth of the tank where the fuel level is measured had to be maintained as well as insuring that the fuel pickup was at the low point in the tank.
From the photos, below, you can see the results and compare the template to the original tank. The template was fitted, refitted and fitted again to the space where the existing tank was located. Most of the extra volume is located in unused space forward of the old tank and by "filling out" some of the old shape.

The welding was started yesterday and is depicted below. There is another day of welding (stay tuned for more photos) then the tank will be pressure tested, powder coated and installed. Last step will be to create a full length skid plate out of aluminum to compliment the steel Bud Builts already on the rig. We will go with aluminum to keep the weight down. This is a big tank and much of it is right on centerline so it needs some significant protection.

We have tried to do the math on the new tank to determine capacity but the shape makes this pretty tough. Our best gues-stimates are about 35-37 gallons. We will have to wait to fill it to get an accurate measurement.

More photos to come......



85733857468574585744857438574285736857358573485747 85750857518575285753857548575585756857588575985761 re photos as this comes together.

mhiscox
02-10-2012, 09:10 PM
This is extremely cool. Thank you for sharing the project with us. :luxhello:

zolo
02-10-2012, 09:13 PM
Holy gas tank batman, that is a lot of work!
Impressed for sure. Looks good so far.

Weight difference side to side? Any thoughts on adding to the left rear spring or front left? Just wondering... I like it either way.

cwvandy
02-10-2012, 09:31 PM
Thanks. The template looks like some sort of architectural model.
Yeah, there there will definitely be additional weight on the left side for sure (100+/- lbs of fuel plus skid plate) so I will wait and see what the ride is like and how she handles. I have OME Dakar springs with the extra leaf so the rear carries weight well, but will just have to see and adjust accordingly.

NM-Frontier
02-10-2012, 10:13 PM
That is a really cool project, I'v been waiting for some one to do this. Keep it up I can't wait to see the finished product!

Doc Foster
02-10-2012, 10:19 PM
Wow this is a cool project - do keep us posted with details and pics

slooowr6
02-10-2012, 10:20 PM
Wow, that is amazing. Finally a extended fuel tank for 05+ taco. I've been looking since I got my truck in 06. Any idea how much the it's going to cost?

4xdog
02-10-2012, 10:47 PM
Nice project. Looking forward to the tank's installation and report when it's in service.

Don

cwvandy
02-10-2012, 10:50 PM
No, not yet. Since this is a first and a one-off (for now) I am having to support the not insignificant R&D costs. Once Shane and crew get this figured out they might be able to build these for a commercially reasonable price. The first one won't be....unfortunately.

TEJASYOTA
02-10-2012, 11:42 PM
KIller project.... just one question err comment...
the 35 gals.... is it the whole thing?... if yes, then I would challenge you on the one section of the tank that would have trouble filling with fuel... can you guess where it is.

Other than that... you going to use the factory parts from the factory tank (sender, pump, vent, etc.)?
Again, killer project!

TangoBlue
02-11-2012, 12:11 AM
That will be an impressive amount of work, thanks for taking the plunge for other 2nd gen owners. Will be waiting for your impression of the completed project.

You mention you've made some other mods... well don't be bashful. Show us what you've done.

trump
02-11-2012, 12:12 AM
:lurk:

Subscribed!

bat
02-11-2012, 12:17 AM
This is my kind of bling

slooowr6
02-11-2012, 12:41 AM
cwvandy,
Not sure if you are aware this so I'll mention it anyway. The newer Taco has a pretty elaborate emission test system in fuel tank. From what I remember reading on the forum and the technical doc from Toyota. The system uses vacuum to detect leaks in the fuel tank. The system will create a vacuum in the fuel tank and it'll compare the pressure difference in the tank and ambiance. The pressure difference has to fall in certain range and the negative pressure in the tank has to reach in certain level and a predefined time limit. If this test failed the system will retry 3 times (I might be wrong). If it still fails, the check engine light will come on. This has been an issue with the FJ aux tank from Man-a-fre several years ago don't know if they have got it fixed. Not sure if with a 35gal tank at close to empty will have too much space for the system to reach that predetermined negative pressure in time. Just FYI, in case if you did see check engine light come on this might be one of the possibility cause. :sombrero:

Again, this is an awesome project! Thanks for posting it.

cwvandy
02-11-2012, 03:57 AM
Thanks for the support and great questions!
The fill for the tank is near the highest point in the tank. The pick-up at the lowest. Most of the tank should fill fine. It is a ridiculously complex shape, but when you see it in person it looks like it will fill.
slooowr6, we are using all the factory pick-ups, hoses, fills and attachments, etc. from the factory tank. We talked to a local Toyota expert who thinks if we use all the factory pieces (except the tank itself) it should be fine. This is yet more of the R&D I mentioned. We will just have to see if the increased internal volume impacts the pressure to the extent that a warning light is set off. Doing a bit of trail-blazing here, for sure. Stay tuned. I will report all trials and tribulations. And thanks for the heads up!

TangoBlue
02-11-2012, 04:57 AM
I think it's worth a try - you can always go back to the original tank. Others who have added an auxiliary tank and tapped into the OEM system haven't reported an issue with codes, so fingers crossed!

Dave Bennett
02-11-2012, 05:31 AM
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g230/devildoc25/Expo/popcorn2.gif

Desert Dan
02-11-2012, 06:10 AM
Looks good.

add a leaf
The fuel alone should weigh about 250-280lbs.

cwvandy
02-11-2012, 04:10 PM
Thanks Dan. I know Bend is out of the way, but the guys at Custom Exhaust Specialties do fantastic work so I highly recommend them for almost any custom metal work. They have several frame-up restorations in process on some vintage 4x4 rigs. Beautiful stuff.
If I get a total of 37 gallons all the gas will weigh about 225 lbs. My 100 lbs +/- figure was for the additional gas over stock (about 15-17 gallons at 6.073 lbs per gallon). The skid plate is bigger and the new tank is bigger AND 16 gauge steel, however, rather than plastic, so may may be close on the total additional weight #. I will weigh the pieces before they are installed and see what I am dealing with. Fortunately I have already have added another leaf to the standard Taco Dakar spring set-up (I often tow and a Horizon trailer). Do you know if I can add another one if necessary??

Dave Bennett
02-11-2012, 04:41 PM
You could but you may need different/larger spring clamps and u-bolts. I've thought of doing that myself vice having custom springs made

TangoBlue
02-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Agreed, and perhaps a new center-pin. My only concern is how well matched the leaves would be for weight bearing and suspension.

At least the options are clear cut... add-a-leaf or custom springs. But that's a bridge you'll cross when you get the tank installed, filled, and a test drive.

slooowr6
02-11-2012, 06:22 PM
Firestone air bag is another option is you don't do serious off road that'll over extend the bags. It works great to compensate the left-right weight difference. You can put more pressure on the drive side to help with the extra weight for the steel tank and fuel.

clcoyle
02-12-2012, 12:27 AM
nice work

frozenground
02-12-2012, 01:19 AM
wow, subscribed :costumed-smiley-007

downhill
02-12-2012, 01:29 AM
Is the tank 14ga or 16ga? You quoted both in different places. Either way, the weight of the tank alone will be significant. I have built a few custom tas tanks in this manner and the weight at first was a big surprise. I wouldn't be surprised if the total weight of the tank and gas wasn't 300#. You'll need to have some pretty substantial supports to keep the tank under the truck over rough terrain. Definitely comprehend that early in the build because you may need some structure built into the tank to facilitate mounting. You will also have a 225# gradient of weight from full to empty acting on one side of the truck. No real way to compensate that unless you use some sort of overload system like an airbump that only comes into play when the tank is heavy. Any attempt to compensate with springs or airbags will result in an oversprung condition as the tank drains.

Also, it appears you have created high points that will trap air. If that is the case, you won't be able to fill the volume very effectively. Some of the space and weight created may not be usable.

Welds on a gas tank are the biggest liability and the greatest potential for leaks. Minimizing welds is always a good strategy, but this tank has a ton of welds. Using a semi-formed bottom peice was a smart move! Be extremely careful about weld quality and definitely pressure test the tank before use.

Lastly, tanks with large flat bottoms can be a problem at low fuel levels. Several gallons of gas can shift into areas where the pickup cannot reach when operating over unlevel ground. Even accellerating and braking can result in momentary starvation. It is usually best to have some sort of sump with a slight taper into it. You can also minimize short term starvation with a carefully designed baffle system. The baffles can be passive or active, utilizing one way valves as simple as little swinging gates. The gates can allow gas into the pickup chamber but resist the flow out. The baffling should not extend too high because if it does it will interfere with filling. These are things you can't go back later and fix, so they must be well tested before the top is welded on.

It looks like your build quality is very high, and I'm impressed with that! Please understand, I'm not trying to rain on youir parade with these suggestions. I've just been way down this trail and gotten my boots muddy along the way :sombrero: Just trying to help you succeed, not criticize! :ylsmoke:

cwvandy
02-12-2012, 01:44 AM
Sorry. My bad. The gauge is 14. We picked up the partially finished tank as it appeared in the last picture (probably about 80% completed?) and I guess it was short of 50 lbs. It was only tacked together and finished welds and additional pieces & baffles will surely add some more weight. We intend to put in 4 baffles which will increase weight but reduce the inevitable sloshing around. These guys have built dozens of tanks so I am relying on what the right # of baffles will be for this size tank. As to final weight, I don't think 300 is far off, a bit more than double the weight of the full stock tank. I think you are spot on that we will not be able to fill every bit of the entire tank because of the shape. Just have to wait and see how much we can use and what happens on long ascents/descents with a low fuel level. I ran into issues in this regard even with the stock tank.
Hear ya' on the pressure testing. It is on the list and we plan to put in significant pressure, meter it, wait and make sure it is tight. Really don't want to get this puppy powder coated and find that a weld is bad. And I appreciate the feedback and experienced-based words of advice. I wanted to share this project, but I also hoped that folks would jump in with their experiences and ideas. Thanks for taking the time!

TangoBlue
02-12-2012, 02:16 AM
Please understand, I'm not trying to rain on youir parade with these suggestions. I've just been way down this trail and gotten my boots muddy along the way :sombrero: Just trying to help you succeed, not criticize! :ylsmoke:

Great observations, not just for this project, but your contribution to all of us. Thanks!

downhill
02-12-2012, 03:03 AM
Sorry. My bad. The gauge is 14. We picked up the partially finished tank as it appeared in the last picture (probably about 80% completed?) and I guess it was short of 50 lbs. It was only tacked together and finished welds and additional pieces & baffles will surely add some more weight. We intend to put in 4 baffles which will increase weight but reduce the inevitable sloshing around. These guys have built dozens of tanks so I am relying on what the right # of baffles will be for this size tank. As to final weight, I don't think 300 is far off, a bit more than double the weight of the full stock tank. I think you are spot on that we will not be able to fill every bit of the entire tank because of the shape. Just have to wait and see how much we can use and what happens on long ascents/descents with a low fuel level. I ran into issues in this regard even with the stock tank.
Hear ya' on the pressure testing. It is on the list and we plan to put in significant pressure, meter it, wait and make sure it is tight. Really don't want to get this puppy powder coated and find that a weld is bad. And I appreciate the feedback and experienced-based words of advice. I wanted to share this project, but I also hoped that folks would jump in with their experiences and ideas. Thanks for taking the time!

It's an awesome project! I'll bet I can guess what you are spending to develop this too. This kind of work don't come cheap. One more suggestion that will likely save you some trouble. Size the end pieces so they fit inside the formed bottom instead of flush with the edge. They should be about 1/4" in. The reason I say this is because then you can lay a fillet weld into the corner it creates. Does that makes sense? That will make the connection super strong, provide less chance for leaks, and create a very strong tub. The welds on the top don't take nearly the stress that the ones on the sides do. Creating an opportunity for a fillet weld will make it bombproof.

If you need any special services in the Bend area let me know! I have alot of contacts there. Bill Nye, who owns Commercial Powdercoating in Bend does excellent work.

Best of luck!

achampagne
02-12-2012, 03:16 AM
subscribed, great project!

Jeff Wanamog
02-12-2012, 05:15 AM
Why don't you let me help you pay for some of those R&D costs.
I would pay big bucks for this off road only gas tank that would never be used on the highways of California.
I would sign anything and pay big bucks.
I share your pain my friend.
Kudos to your drive to make you rig better.
Will you have to link the high points to vent it?

P.S. I am serious about the money thing.
PM me.

Jeff

cwvandy
02-12-2012, 04:05 PM
Thanks Jeff. I will send PM.
RE: your question, yes, we are internally linking the two high points to vent out air and allow the tank to fill at the top end. I think others may have asked this question and I misunderstood what they were asking.
Hey, Downhill, I completely understand what you are suggesting and will recommend this to make the end welds stronger. The final welds haven't been done and this is great input. Thanks again everyone.

cwvandy
02-12-2012, 04:07 PM
PS: Commercial Powdercoating is where I have had all of my various projects completed. They do great work and will be seeing this tank in a few days!

steve103
02-12-2012, 06:19 PM
oh boy. i want one. thanks for your hard work.

TheJosh
02-13-2012, 02:30 AM
:lurk:

zolo
02-13-2012, 03:03 AM
cwvandy,
Not sure if you are aware this so I'll mention it anyway. The newer Taco has a pretty elaborate emission test system in fuel tank. From what I remember reading on the forum and the technical doc from Toyota. The system uses vacuum to detect leaks in the fuel tank. The system will create a vacuum in the fuel tank and it'll compare the pressure difference in the tank and ambiance. The pressure difference has to fall in certain range and the negative pressure in the tank has to reach in certain level and a predefined time limit. If this test failed the system will retry 3 times (I might be wrong). If it still fails, the check engine light will come on. This has been an issue with the FJ aux tank from Man-a-fre several years ago don't know if they have got it fixed. Not sure if with a 35gal tank at close to empty will have too much space for the system to reach that predetermined negative pressure in time. Just FYI, in case if you did see check engine light come on this might be one of the possibility cause. :sombrero:

Again, this is an awesome project! Thanks for posting it.

This sytem is actually not in the tank its under the bed right in front of the factory spare tire bolted to a croos member. The valves, canister, and pump are all together. But good call.

However most higher-end Scanner's have a EVAP test for the Tacoma and you can run the test manually and or in an auto test mode through the scanner to test the tank and the system.
So if you have access to a Snap -On... say Verus. You could test the new tank and then make any adjustments or changes if needed.
I have been through this on my truck and the scanner will actually tell you what part of the system is not working if it indeed doesnt.
But I bet it will. The system will run the pump till it see's the pressue it wants then let it hold and if it senses changes then it notes the issue. So it will run the pump for as long as is takes no matter the tank volume in theory.
The truck test's itself mostly after driving from what I could tell. Ive looked at the freeze frame data and it usually does it at night after the truck had been off for a while also during other conditions I suppose.
Hope that helps.

Slooowr6 is right though the system might end up being senitive. (funny Ive never seen a SLOW R6)

Cheers guys. Once again cool project....

cwvandy
02-13-2012, 02:19 PM
Thanks, again, everyone for the great feedback and ideas. I am meeting with fabricator this AM, passing along the feedback and updating photos. Stay tuned.

cwvandy
02-13-2012, 07:54 PM
Good progress is being made to tack together the tank and double/triple check the fit in the final position. Before the final welds are done some top pieces will be pulled off to final-weld the baffles.

A number of decisions were made today.
-Vent the three high points of the tank externally (three fittings can be seen in the photos) It was originally thought that we would do this internally, but after some discussion we decided it best to put the fittings and hoses where they could, if necessary, be maintained. A loose fitting inside the tank could later be quite the hassle and doing this externally will keep the hoses high enough to move all the air out.
-We are going with four internal baffles. The baffles are not only in natural and pretty evenly spaced "breaks" in the shape, but they also correspond to where the straps will hold the tank in place. This will provide some vertical rigidity where the tank is being pulled against the truck

The large hole in the tank is where the somewhat elaborate, circular factory pickup device is located. It is a piece about the size and shape of an old round oatmeal box (dating myself here). As noted earlier, all the stock hoses are being put back into place at, or very near, where they attached on the original tank. Care has been taken to not cut or attempt to lengthen any of the wires, hoses, etc. and to use the factory fittings.

Once the final welds are done we will pressure test the tank for at least 24 hours and then its off to the powerdercoater. Stay tuned.




86280862818628286283862848628586286

trump
02-13-2012, 09:42 PM
Looking great!

Don't forget to test your skills on a first gen tank. :D

4x4x4doors
02-13-2012, 09:42 PM
Really? Oatmeal came in round boxes?

;)

slooowr6
02-13-2012, 10:11 PM
Slooowr6 is right though the system might end up being senitive. (funny Ive never seen a SLOW R6)


OT,
Slooowr6 = Slow rider on a R6........:bike_rider:

The tank looks very nicely build, looks like it's going to be $$$.
Does anyone in California know do they look at the tank when doing smog?

downhill
02-13-2012, 10:27 PM
Lookin great! Once you prove this thing in, you need to take orders for a group buy! Amortise your development and build costs into the price and at the very least get yours for free. Nobody else is going to offer something like this so I think people will jump on it!

J-man
02-13-2012, 10:41 PM
anything they cant see they wont question - a nicely built skid will keep wandering eyes away.....

J-man
02-13-2012, 10:43 PM
great build man. Your making me want to do this to my 3rd gen 4runner, now i have to go drop my tank and see how much extra space is there. Id be happy with just another 5 gals capacity in there.

LBPtaco
02-14-2012, 03:31 PM
great build man. Id be happy with just another 5 gals capacity in there.

X2! But the extra 15 would be REALLY nice!

cwvandy
02-14-2012, 06:48 PM
Today welding was continuing. Also found solid way to mount the factory fuel level device (aka the oatmeal box). Looks like powdercoater will see tank tomorrow.

keezer37
02-14-2012, 09:44 PM
That's awesome. Reminds me of Tetris.

skygear
02-15-2012, 12:27 AM
I want in! I was looking at the hilux tank and they won't ship stateside... this would fit the bill nicely

RMP&O
02-15-2012, 01:12 AM
impressive work on that fuel tank.....that is the kind of stuff I like to see!

Dave Bennett
02-15-2012, 01:23 AM
Want.

TangoBlue
02-15-2012, 01:23 AM
Very beefy.

Dave Bennett
02-15-2012, 01:28 AM
Does anyone in California know do they look at the tank when doing smog?

IIRC all they do is hook up a hose to the exhaust and watch a monitor while they run the engine. It prints out a report at the end but they don't really poke around much at all.

barlowrs
02-15-2012, 01:46 AM
REALLY want!

Palehorse1
02-15-2012, 02:13 AM
And to echo the others, I'd love to have one as well and appreciate your efforts to sort one out and to keep us updated as to how it turns out.

skygear
02-15-2012, 05:19 AM
I'd like to place an order for an aluminum one ;)

cwvandy
02-15-2012, 02:54 PM
Once we get this think installed and working it would be fun to see if it could be reproduced. If it were made it out of a metal (either steel or aluminum) the key would be to first see if the underbody is the same on all of this generation of Tacomas so the shape is consistent (I believe it is), make a CAD drawing of the shape so the pieces could be laser cut rather than cut by hand and somewhat simplify the shape to make the welding process easier. The other route would be to cast a mold of the shape and have it molded/blown out of an appropriate weight and thickness of a material similar to the stock tank. Lets see if this things works first.......Seems like enough people share my desire to carry more fuel, for sure.

downhill
02-15-2012, 04:03 PM
You could have a real winner here if you can find a cost effective way to build them. Molded plastic would be my first choice. Lighter weight, and no rust. The shape could be simplified a good bit and even a 30 gallon capacity would be outstanding. For most of us that would be real close to 500 miles range. Hardley anyone carries more than 2 extra cans anyway. The biggest mistake I see when people change materials, is not making the appropraite changes in the design to accommodate the new material. Steel is very forgiving in that it is easy to weld and has good fatigue resistance. If you go aluminum it will have to be TIG welded which is slow. Seam reduction will become a priority. Plastic will require molded in stiffeners, etc.

Just a word of advise about selling these. There are millions of great projects that never get off the ground in the US because of product liability. The cost of such insurance can outweigh all the profit in a small scale operation. I had one business where the word "engineering" appeared in the business name, and that alone made me basically uninsurable due to cost. It's a bitter reality. One possibility might be to sub this out to an established tank builder or even sell the design and a list of customers to someone already doing this. There is also the very real possibilty that someone is watching this right now and deciding whether they want a piece of the action. You could spend a bunch of money to get ready to build these and then find yourself in competition and severely undercut. Anyone who has been down this road knows how it goes. There are no protections for innovators. Patents aren't worth the paper they are written on, and this would be almost impossible to patent anyway. As much as the recognition and involvement sounds good, running any enterprise is a real headache. Hopefully you can find a way to make these available without becoming miserable in the process. These are the reasons why I do NOTHING anymore.

cwvandy
02-15-2012, 09:46 PM
Downhill I could not agree more. In a former life I was an attorney and learned that liability (and fear thereof) makes much of the business world go round. I have never looked into it, but I can imagine that when you start messing around and "engineering" anything for sale that carries GASOLINE that the liability-o-meter pegs out. It is probably a big part of the reason no one has done this before. Just look at what has happened to simple Jerry cans and regulations from California.
I am not inclined to do this...at all. Would be fun only to see if we could get a dozen or so reproduced at a reasonable price for people that have some interest. I think it fair to say that there is market demand for a product like this. Not sure at all, for the reasons you state, whether anyone would want to commercialize this.

Anyway, a ton of progress today. The tank is off to the powerdercoaters. The welding was completed, the tank pressure tested (with gauges for a significant time and every seam, fitting and attachment "soaped" to look for leaks).
The tank was then fitted one last time before it was sent off. It fit like a glove (the results of so much time being spent on the mock-up) and will not reduce ground clearance more than the stock tank. Should be back later this week, installed, have a skid plate fitted and we can begin testing. More photos as we progress.

slooowr6
02-15-2012, 10:22 PM
I've been looking since 06 pretty sure there is no aux/extended gas tank commercially available for 05+ Tacoma. The only aux tank I seen is for FJ made by man-a-fre.

LBPtaco
02-15-2012, 10:56 PM
I want in! I was looking at the hilux tank and they won't ship stateside... this would fit the bill nicely

Does the Hilux tank fit?

TangoBlue
02-16-2012, 05:23 AM
Does the Hilux tank fit?

I wouldn't bet money on it; not without taking and comparing measurements and mounting points from the two different trucks. HILUX and Tacoma platforms are not interchangeable.

WxMan
02-16-2012, 06:46 AM
cwvandy,

Nice work. I too lust for more range. Best of luck with the project.


Does the Hilux tank fit?

I had a Hilux LongRanger 140L tank shipped to me in Canada for my '07 Tacoma not long ago. When I went to install the tank I found that there are some minor differences in the mounting of the tank since the Hilux frame is different than the Tacoma. Unfortunately I didn't have time to fuss with it much and had to get the truck back on the road that day so I put the stock tank back in. The truck is my wife's daily driver so I can't have it off the road for long. A further wrench in the gears is that my work is moving me to another province in the very near future so I'm not going to be able to finish this project for a few months. From what I could see with the tank raised into position only a few minor modifications to the mounts will be necessary. Don't quote me on that though as it's not in there yet. I'll be sure to update you all on what exactly it took to get this thing in when it happens.

p.s. Don't ask how much it cost to ship from Australia. You don't want to know and I don't like to think about it.

Russ.

clcoyle
02-18-2012, 03:18 AM
Very inventive. Sign me up for one.

downhill
02-18-2012, 04:30 AM
Can't wait to see this thing after Bill Powdercoats it! God, I hope it's red :sombrero:

trump
02-18-2012, 04:38 AM
Can't wait to see this thing after Bill Powdercoats it! God, I hope it's red :sombrero:

Red? It does still go under the truck, right?

downhill
02-18-2012, 05:40 AM
Yes, but this much work deserves some presence :wings:

bobDog
02-18-2012, 06:09 AM
I definitely see the need for 'vent' hoses or air relief to let pockets of the tank get filled w/o creating air pockets or bubbles. the mentioned vacuum or pressure sensor would have to be dealt with as to how much pressure or lack of needed to trip said leak detect unit. I'm thinking that's where the 'devils in the details' will rear it's ugly head. I must say tho that it appears to be a great idea so far adaptable to many different vehicles if one is willing to put up the money for the R&D. I'm subscribed!:wings:

bobDog
02-18-2012, 06:20 AM
IIRC all they do is hook up a hose to the exhaust and watch a monitor while they run the engine. It prints out a report at the end but they don't really poke around much at all.
Ah the beauty of living here in Gods country is that they don't check at all ...emissions or safety....2 year plates for under a 100 frogskins too. Yea! I love it here. Did I mention the place is absolutely beautiful and trout jump in your boat just to feed you. Deer walk up to your sights and smile. Wonderful place.:elkgrin:

cwvandy
02-18-2012, 04:15 PM
The moment of truth arrived! Late yesterday the tank returned from the powder coater (sorry, not red). Because all of the fittings had be pre-installed, it quickly went back together with all the hoses, fittings and THREE vents (three high points connected via brass fittings and marine grade, reinforced fuel hose). A final high-pressure lead test was done and when the tank was tested air tight, it was installed and the aluminum skid plate installed.

Some details of the completed project:
1. Final weight of the tank with all the fittings and factory pieces installed (pick-up, fuel level device, etc) was right at 100 lbs. Stock tank with all the fittings was about 35 lbs so a net gain of 65 lbs for the tank.
2. We put in 8 gallons of gas. Fuel gauge read about 1/4 tank. As soon as the ignition was turned on all the vacuum and fuel pumps kicked in and the truck started almost immediately. No issues. No warning lights. All perfect.
3. We drove immediately to a gas station a block away and topped off the tank with 32 GALLONS!!! The tank held far more than we thought for a total of 40 GALLONS of gas. The tank filled smoothly with the gas nozzle on full flow. Very exciting.
4. The Icon Coilover / OME HD Dacar springs kept the truck level with a full tank. No noticeable "list to port".
5. Drove home about 30 miles without any issues.

I will take the rig off road this weekend and put it through its paces. Monday I will drive the 600 mile round trip to Seattle and see how the fuel gauge responds to fuel use. We suspect it will "stay full" longer than stock. Still plenty of time for something not to work, but so far so good.

Going to be fun to see how this thing functions. And REALLY fun to have a primary fuel tank w

cwvandy
02-18-2012, 04:25 PM
PS: Skid plate hex head bolts are being replaced with round head allen bolts to avoid catching and shearing. We didn't have them last night. Being replaced today.

TangoBlue
02-18-2012, 04:35 PM
Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a 2nd Gen...

I'm glad it's working flawlessly so far and looking forward to your follow-on report! It gives me a little more enthusiasm for my auxiliary tank project.

Just to confirm that your skid in made of Al, right; and the skid weight?

fourfa
02-18-2012, 05:59 PM
Amazing work! Should definitely draw some business to the shop that did such clean, well-engineered work

downhill
02-18-2012, 06:42 PM
Congratulations on such a well executed project! Glad no gremlins have cropped up, and hopefully they won't! Adding 65# to get an additional 19 gals of capacity is not bad at all. If you think about it, the weight of cans, can racks, swing aways and other things that people add to carry fuel is often less efficient. Certanly four cans worth would be. Filling that sucker up is going to leave a mark though! My last expo rig had a 50 gallon custum designed & built tank. Filling it with premium was brutal. That one was easier to build though because it didn't have all the electronics and fittings. It was old school.

RMP&O
02-18-2012, 07:31 PM
Congratulations on such a well executed project! Glad no gremlins have cropped up, and hopefully they won't! Adding 65# to get an additional 19 gals of capacity is not bad at all. If you think about it, the weight of cans, can racks, swing aways and other things that people add to carry fuel is often less efficient. Certanly four cans worth would be. Filling that sucker up is going to leave a mark though! My last expo rig had a 50 gallon custum designed & built tank. Filling it with premium was brutal. That one was easier to build though because it didn't have all the electronics and fittings. It was old school.

Same in my 1st Gen. Custom 19gal tank behind the rear axle plus the stock tank. Gave me about 39gals of onboard fuel. With a super charger I could still get over 500 miles between fill ups if I drained it way low. I had mine set up as an aux tank and simply transferred tot he stock tank. It worked very well as long as I didn't forget to turn of the aux tank switch!

Oh and in Nicaragua, (IIRC) it once cost me $145 to fill it up! Most expensive fill up I have ever seen in a 1st Gen!

My aux fuel tank build is here,

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/34087-RMP-amp-O-s-2004-D-C-S-C-Taco-Build-Up/page10?highlight=RMP%26amp%3BO+2004+Taco

trump
02-18-2012, 07:42 PM
Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a 2nd Gen...

X2

I think I'm trying to stay optimistic that someone will design a tank as well thought out as this one for the first gen. I would even be happy with a well designed transfer tank. If I had more free time and a good welder...

trump
02-18-2012, 07:46 PM
My aux fuel tank build is here,

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/34087-RMP-amp-O-s-2004-D-C-S-C-Taco-Build-Up/page10?highlight=RMP%26amp%3BO+2004+Taco

Thanks for posting that again. I had forgotten about this. I had planned on copying your work.

steve103
02-18-2012, 08:10 PM
did you coat the inside of the tank? should it be?

jim65wagon
02-19-2012, 11:28 AM
Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a 2nd Gen...

I'm glad it's working flawlessly so far and looking forward to your follow-on report! It gives me a little more enthusiasm for my auxiliary tank project.

Just to confirm that your skid in made of Al, right; and the skid weight?

Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a Tacoma! A 40 gallon tank would be sweet to have. Excellently done project from start to finish.

Hmmm......I wonder if it would fit a Tundra?

cwvandy
02-19-2012, 03:07 PM
Tango Blue:
Just saw your question about the skid plate. Yes, it is aluminum. And it weighs about half of the weight of the original steel Bud-Built stock tank plate. I actually saved weight in the plate; probably 25 lbs less than the steel.

TEJASYOTA
02-19-2012, 06:12 PM
Does the Hilux tank fit?


I wouldn't bet money on it; not without taking and comparing measurements and mounting points from the two different trucks. HILUX and Tacoma platforms are not interchangeable.

Correct... I already checked into this with The Long Ranger guys in Aust.
Even asked to see if they were willing to R&D a Tacoma... no deal, not enough demand from NA to do this.

You should also know that Northwest Metal Products makes a tank for Gen I for the spare tire area.
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178245

Here is the company website.
http://www.nwmp.com/

ETAV8R
02-20-2012, 07:43 AM
Nice work. Watching this one.

H0LLYW00D
02-25-2012, 04:17 AM
I am definatly going to look at making something simular to this, OP if you have an secmatics or measurements that I could get my hands just PM me, it would be much apperciated.

Ryanmb21
02-25-2012, 04:49 AM
Nice work!

TangoBlue
02-25-2012, 05:01 AM
Any updates since the install and trip to Seattle?

khronus79
02-25-2012, 05:21 AM
Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a 2nd Gen...

I'm glad it's working flawlessly so far and looking forward to your follow-on report! It gives me a little more enthusiasm for my auxiliary tank project.

Just to confirm that your skid in made of Al, right; and the skid weight?Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a Tacoma! A 40 gallon tank would be sweet to have. Excellently done project from start to finish.

Hmmm......I wonder if it would fit a Tundra?

Why the heck am I excited about this? I don't even have a Toyota!:sombrero:

Ryan1975
02-25-2012, 05:52 AM
Lovely project and lovely work. I've been following this thread with interest for some time...never felt compelled to reply until I was watching the news earlier and caused me to pause and think...dang - $5.00/gallon times 35 gallons = $175 to fill uip. d'oh!

bobDog
02-25-2012, 07:22 AM
Lovely project and lovely work. I've been following this thread with interest for some time...never felt compelled to reply until I was watching the news earlier and caused me to pause and think...dang - $5.00/gallon times 35 gallons = $175 to fill uip. d'oh!Yeah but you can shop the cheapest gas and save a few bucks each fill-up and avoid that high priced stuff in out of the way stations.:coffeedrink:
Hmmmmm. I wonder how much the extra weight in the first half tank affects the mileage .....might come out to be a wash dollar wise.
\

Ryan1975
02-25-2012, 08:21 AM
Yeah but you can shop the cheapest gas and save a few bucks each fill-up and avoid that high priced stuff in out of the way stations.:coffeedrink:
Hmmmmm. I wonder how much the extra weight in the first half tank affects the mileage .....might come out to be a wash dollar wise.


1 Gallon of Gas = 6.15lbs (@ 68deg)

Approximately 17 gallon extra capacity = only an extra 104lbs (give or take)

I think the answer is negligible but I could be wrong.

cwvandy
02-25-2012, 04:31 PM
I have now put about 1000 or so miles on the truck. 900 miles on road and about 100 off. I did the 100 off-road with about an 1/8th of a tank showing on the gas gauge to see if bouncing around or steeper angles had any impact on gas flow. It didn't. The fuel pick-up assembly actually sits down into a "cup" at the bottom of the tank with edges about 1" or so high. Besides the internal baffles, this setup seems to keep the gas from moving around too abruptly. The on road was to Seattle and back and around town in Bend as a daily driver.
Despite the additional weight (probably a total of 225 lbs. over stock for tank and gas) , I noticed no difference whatsoever in fuel economy on the highway or around town. On the way to Seattle I was towing an empty motorcycle trailer. On the way back I was towing a new 1200 GS Adventure (another fun story......). There was no impact at all with the empty trailer. I was moving at or above the 70 MPH speed limit on I-5 and nudged my normal 18 mph (truck has front/rear aftermarket bumpers, winch, significant extra heavy gear inside and roof rack + currently running studded snow tires rather than summer Toyo MT). With the bike in tow I lost a little over a mile per gallon.

Only adverse effect was the gas gauge does not move at all until I have traveled about 100 miles. The gauge then lowers at about the same rate proportionally as stock tank (since new tank is just about twice the size of the stock tank the rate is half as fast). I also could not detect any adverse effects on handling. I think the weight is so low (and the fact that there is no additional wind resistance) that it just doesn't impact anything. No noticeable impact on cornering, throttle response or braking. I have seen FAR more impact from gear on the roof (roof tent or Baja rack).
Definitely sticker shock when I pull into a gas station and pump in 35 gallons or so. Ouch. It has, so far, given me more options on where I buy gas and to shop price. Really just a matter of you can pay 'em now in bigger amounts or pay 'em later and more often in smaller.

RE: the question of plans or specs that we can share, there really aren't any. The tank was created by making a 3-D card board template and modeling the steel on it. Give Exhaust Specialities in Bend a shout. Shane might be convinced to make more.

Treenail
02-25-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm so impressed with your build! The 13 gallon??? tank in my ToyBox limits my range...especially in west Texas!

http://stonerradiator.com/images/dsc00667.jpg

Being able to set a larger trip radius between fills is the best part of more capacity. The fuel cost savings will be hard to amortize. When I had my '72 Chevy 3/4t pickup I installed two outside the frame saddle tanks. That gave me 60 gallon capacity! A manual valve mounted through the floor on the left side made switching easy. The last tank to empty was the on board, with the gauge.

I'm going to try and find a junkyard tank to fit the area where the spare tire should be. Lots of cubic space up there.

steve103
02-25-2012, 08:08 PM
so any thought on making a small run of these? and price. be good since you have got all the measurements. let us know. i guess it would be the guy who made this one, if he is interested or not.

less_than_adam
02-25-2012, 08:29 PM
No issues with the check engine light so far? That was the main reason I passed on the aux tank for the fjc.

bobDog
02-25-2012, 11:16 PM
1 Gallon of Gas = 6.15lbs (@ 68deg)

Approximately 17 gallon extra capacity = only an extra 104lbs (give or take)

I think the answer is negligible but I could be wrong.Heh..didn't do the math...yep you're right....like having a skinny gal in the back seat.:sombrero:

cwvandy
02-26-2012, 09:11 PM
Nope, no engine light issues at all. I think because we used all the factory hoses, pickups, sensors, etc. that to the system it all looks the same. I haven't run it dry but when I get it at or near empty we will see if all is still well.

oliverlove
02-27-2012, 10:13 PM
Just out of curiosity, what is the legality of running a larger custom tank, or even an auxiliary tank in the bed of the truck?

J-man
03-05-2012, 09:30 AM
You have made me want to embark on a new project for my 00 4runner & 01 tacoma for sure. IF you dont mind, ive got a couple q's for you.
1. Any pics of the baffles inside the tank as well as where the fuel pump/pick up sits?
2. For the fuel pick up, is the new tank the same depth as old tank so it can actually pick up fuel close to empty?
3. Straps - did you make new ones, reuse the old mounts, make new mounts?
4. Clearance's in on top of the tank (underneath the floorpan of vehicle) - did you use spacers or what is it resting against?

Again - a very nice build and this is something that i know alot of people are drooling over. Fuel is the most concerning part anytime you embark on a trip, wether its local or an expedition for 1000's of miles. This really shows that a lot can be done with a little ingenuity. This makes soooooo much sence. Thanks for sharing.

99runner
03-05-2012, 03:49 PM
that is some beautiful workmanship. on long trips and offroad it must be quite comforting knowing you have such long endurance.

J-man. With your 3rd gen 4Runner one thing to keep in mind is the flex of the rear axle. With the 4-link suspension when you stuff your drivers rear tire the whole thing shifts to the drivers side and even with the stock fuel tank the pinion flange can contact the skid. Just something to think about. I am assuming that with leaf springs the side to side movement is pretty minimal. I read a while ago (sorry no links) that the tank out of a 90's ford, cant remember specifics, will fit where the spare tire mounts in our 3rd gens.

Found the link http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-roading-home-monst4rs/93619-3rd-gen-4runner-f-150-tank-swap-behind-rear-axle.html

peekay
03-06-2012, 08:55 AM
please keep us updated on whether the CE light comes on. I have a 30 gallon auxiliary on my 07 Taco. I tapped into the main fill line to fill. Stock everything else. I throw a CE light every 1000-2000 miles or so. It's not a big deal because I can clear it on the fly with my Scangauge, but interested in your results.

cwvandy
03-06-2012, 08:48 PM
J-Man:
I don't have any pictures of the baffles. There are three that have 3 half-circles cut out on the bottom of about 3' diameter...small enough to stop the gas from moving around but big enough to fill the tank evenly.
Yes, the new tank is very close in depth to the old tank; maybe 1" taller. The pickup is still at the bottom of the tank so the only impact is the fuel gauge does not register any fuel use until I have used about 6-7 gallons. Everything else works as stock.
The straps are all new and bolt into cross members in the frame. We made them significantly stronger (boxed shape) to support the additional weight.
The tank is resting on the cross members in the frame.

Aznwolf118
03-07-2012, 06:51 AM
i noticed you had a double/crew cab. wonder if it will fit the extend cab.

shortbusadventure
03-07-2012, 07:12 AM
i noticed you had a double/crew cab. wonder if it will fit the extend cab.

Being a Bend resident, Tacoma owner, customer of Custom Exhaust, and an acquaintance of the OP, I am taking my 2011 access cab in next week to have the same tank built. The factory tanks are the same for all Tacoma's from 05 to current. Here's to the posibility of production run.

-Kevin

TangoBlue
03-07-2012, 07:18 AM
And the pilgrimage of 2nd Gen Tacoma's to Bend, OR begins...

trump
03-07-2012, 08:56 PM
And the pilgrimage of 2nd Gen Tacoma's to Bend, OR begins...

No joke... When and where will first Gen guys be driving to?

TangoBlue
03-07-2012, 09:23 PM
No joke... When and where will first Gen guys be driving to?

I bet if you drive up there he'll be happy to put one together. Ask him to make 2, 'ol buddy, 'ol pal... ;)

I'm still eyeing that mod this year, but looking at an aux tank between the frame rails where the spare tire used to sit so I can keep the 2 fuel cells separate. Looking at this Ford P/U 4250 series 19 gallon tank as the solution... http://www.mtscompany.com/ford.htm

steve103
03-07-2012, 09:52 PM
how much please kind sir.

Dave Bennett
03-07-2012, 11:53 PM
Being a Bend resident, Tacoma owner, customer of Custom Exhaust, and an acquaintance of the OP, I am taking my 2011 access cab in next week to have the same tank built. The factory tanks are the same for all Tacoma's from 05 to current. Here's to the posibility of production run.

-Kevin

:beer:

slooowr6
03-08-2012, 12:01 AM
how much please kind sir.

+1, ballpark would be good enough.

Aznwolf118
03-08-2012, 01:02 AM
crap... now i need to drive to bend....

Palehorse1
03-08-2012, 01:59 AM
crap... now i need to drive to bend....

You say that like it's a bad thing. It's an excuse to "GO" as my two year old son would say with glee in his eye. Spending money on electrical stuff right now but still watching this thread as I'd certainly like one too.

steve103
03-08-2012, 04:34 PM
called yesterday and talked with shane, nice guy. still only limited production. talked with him about the possibility of making some out of aluminum for the same price as steel, his is open to it but wants to make a few more before he changes material, 6 months or so was his answer. price for steel is 1800, he thinks the same for alu as well. so in about 6 months it sounds like he will be open to making them production not just single. keep your eyes open for this i know i will be moving on this then, just enough time to save the bucks.

bobDog
03-08-2012, 08:25 PM
Name for the tank? How about 'The Bottom Line"

Treenail
03-08-2012, 09:43 PM
Or...Big Gulp

OkieRunner
03-27-2012, 07:06 AM
WOW. I've been debating between Taco and Tundra for my next rig, but thinking about 500+ miles per tank makes me happy! hmmmmmmmm

HanzoSteel
03-27-2012, 11:47 AM
Nice work!

Be careful if ever coming through the mexican boarder, they may think its a storage for drugs.

Ryan1975
03-27-2012, 04:03 PM
Nice work!

Be careful if ever coming through the mexican boarder, they may think its a storage for drugs.

Good point...I don't know how easy or hard it is on a tacoma...but the bed for a Chevy S10 was only 6 bolts and a screw for the filler neck. I think it would pretty easy to remove a bed (after emptying out the whole truck, ugh) to demonstrate it was a gas tank...and only that.

barlowrs
03-27-2012, 05:19 PM
Good point...I don't know how easy or hard it is on a tacoma...but the bed for a Chevy S10 was only 6 bolts and a screw for the filler neck. I think it would pretty easy to remove a bed (after emptying out the whole truck, ugh) to demonstrate it was a gas tank...and only that.

If they are really concerned, they can run it through X-ray and should be able to see nothing inside.

Redline
03-27-2012, 08:29 PM
I'm not even a Tacoma owner and I'm excited about this gas tank. :victory:

OkieRunner
03-27-2012, 09:39 PM
If they are really concerned, they can run it through X-ray and should be able to see nothing inside.

X-ray wont see through steel, unless they have something better than we use at the hospital. we don't have anything that will see through it, and infra-red is the only thing I knew of that would. and I don't think air-temperature drugs would show up on that either. I dunno?

barlowrs
03-27-2012, 10:55 PM
They do, it is how they search trains, semis, etc that cross. For major train and trucking routes they use hardmouted devices in buildings I beleive (Dont quote me though). For autos, etc, they have mobile devices. At the end of the day, the dogs will be the first to clear your tank, I wouldnt worry about.

Here is one of the CBP mobile units being used to scan during the super bowl:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/multimedia/photo_gallery/archives/2007_newsphotos/superbowl02.xml

dorton
03-28-2012, 12:21 AM
Very cool thread OP. Thanks for sharing.

cwvandy
03-28-2012, 07:10 PM
Just returned from a week long trip to Death Valley. Other than a small hiccup before we left (small amount of gas escaped via vent tube, entered charcoal filter and set off engine warning light---easy fix by installing a longer tube with a loop. No issues on 2K trip to DV and back to Bend) it was wicked great to have 40 gal tank. With Adventure trailer in tow, and especially off road on class 2 & 3 routes, gas mileage sucks. With 40 gallons there was no worry and no need to buy $6 a gallon gas at Furnace Creek (OK, actually "only" $5.85 for regular...ouch).
Most of time was spent traveling over the Mengal pass via Warm Springs Road (from the valley side). Because the additional weight is so low and almost on center line (front to back) I never could feel any difference in handling. My front end Bud built skip plates took some slight blows in short class 3 section at the top of Mengal pass, but not a scratch on the gas tank skid plate.
I cannot say enough about the quality of the build and install. When we encountered the warning light issue Shane at Custom Exhaust was on it, quickly figured out what had happened and did the fix for no charge.
All in all the tank addition was all I had hoped for. Next trip is White Rim Trail before the Expo in Flagstaff.

barlowrs
03-28-2012, 07:54 PM
I WANT!!!!!!!

Nice report!

shortbusadventure
04-23-2012, 04:04 PM
My tank is almost done!

It is at the powder coater currently. They revised the tank and managed additional capacity, possibly 2 more gallons. They have also revised the vacuum line to the charcoal canister that the OP mentioned. The fab works is beautiful. I will try to get some pics.

-Kevin

RobD
04-24-2012, 03:58 AM
I agree...there is a spot where you have a dip near the front(?) that you're not going to fill completely, unless you have some kind of strategy for filling the void.

rafter6
04-24-2012, 08:48 AM
Very cool build. Just noticed you live in Bend! Very nice! Good ol Central Oregon! :victory: Im from Redmond haha

Louisd75
04-24-2012, 05:37 PM
I agree...there is a spot where you have a dip near the front(?) that you're not going to fill completely, unless you have some kind of strategy for filling the void.

It looks like he's got fittings at all of the high points. It's hard to tell from the pics in post #68 (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/73665-Custom-35-gallon-gas-tank-for-09-Tacoma?p=1052205#post1052205) but it looks like they're all connected with hose which would allow you to press it up with fuel.

cwvandy
04-24-2012, 08:36 PM
Yes, the high points are all connected with hoses and, as a result, the tank can fill completely. Several thousand miles---some hard offroad---and it is working like a charm. The added capacity is a HUGE benefit. Very happy with the results. One of the best mods I have made, for sure.

KeithLamb
05-02-2012, 05:52 AM
Interesting. But as you fill the tank, how does the air escape the high points. Or is there many areas that fuel can't get to

cwvandy
05-02-2012, 02:26 PM
The high points are linked by fuel hose so the tank vents to the highest point. At the highest point the tank is vented to the outside.

bobDog
05-07-2012, 05:16 AM
Very cool build. Just noticed you live in Bend! Very nice! Good ol Central Oregon! :victory: Im from Redmond haha Man....no one knows how cool it is to live in Oregon. this so much better than anywhere else......2 year plates (90 bucks or so) , no safetey or emiss. checks.....best salmon, steelhead and trout fishing ever. NO SALES TAX....(add that up when it comes time to buy a truck) Pick your weather.....snow or dry...wet and green...or God lets do both. I got here and I couldnt get the smile off my face....either on the river or at the DMV!:victory: God takes his vacations here!!!
All the other states are just place to visit.

shortbusadventure
05-09-2012, 07:41 AM
Sorry I did not manage to get a pics of the tank installed while it was clean. I had to go rescue a friend stuck in the mud the other night.
Here is a pic of the tank before install, fresh from powdercoating.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj133/khopper713/photo.jpg
Side shot showing tank and skid plate hang just below the frame rail
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj133/khopper713/IMG_1001.jpg
I had Custom Exhaust add a lazer cut logo on the tank that is visible in the rear wheel well.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj133/khopper713/IMG_1003.jpg
Custom Cat Delete/Y pipe exhaust. This is not necessary to fit tank. Some exhaust modification is necessary though. You can also see the drain installed at the corner.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj133/khopper713/IMG_1004.jpg
3 Straps mount the tank, using the stock mounting locations.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj133/khopper713/IMG_1007.jpg
Aluminum skids were built for the tank, and a transmission skid was built to connect the fuel tank skid, and my Asfir front skid plate.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj133/khopper713/IMG_1008.jpg

-Kevin

cam-shaft
05-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Good call on the drain especially with todays fuel. Next time do a 1.5-2" drain also, speaking from experience. I think the only problem you guys need to be aware of is filling the tank completly full and not burning it off anytime soon. With todays alcohol in the fuel, fuel starts to go bad in over a month. I would just run tank low on gas unless planning a long trip. Remember adding fresh fuel to old bad gas is like adding good milk to sour milk.

PHXtaco
05-09-2012, 05:10 PM
OK, someone step up and do this for a first gen Tacoma!

steve103
05-09-2012, 07:40 PM
these look soo great. can i add, you might want to look at a little shroud around the drain plug or move it to the front near the frame. one wrong move and that thing is gone on a rock. just a thought from the things i will be doing once i get one of these cool tanks.

Big_Geek
10-29-2012, 05:43 AM
Did this turn into an actual production offering?

Slimwood Shady
10-29-2012, 03:44 PM
Did this turn into an actual production offering?

x2

MrGrimm
10-30-2012, 01:33 AM
x2

x3

Dave Bennett
10-30-2012, 01:35 AM
Great question.

cwvandy
10-30-2012, 05:02 AM
These things of beauty are being produced on special order from Custom Exhaust Specialities (see: http://4customexhaust.com). My tank has completely changed how I travel both on and, especially, off road. I'v had this about 6 months now and it has worked flawlessly. Well worth the cost and wait. And hey, you can get a trip to Bend!

hornytoad
11-06-2012, 05:31 PM
I know I'm going up there after the 1st of the year to go pick mine up!!! It will be nice to have more than 250 miles of range.

JWP58
11-07-2012, 02:33 AM
How much $$$$ are we talking?

hornytoad
11-07-2012, 08:36 PM
JWP58

Call Shane up at CES - 541-330-5931

More $$$ than an ARB bumper and winch but a lot less than a TRD supercharger....

Slimwood Shady
11-08-2012, 01:49 AM
Which winch?:drool:

hornytoad
11-08-2012, 05:08 PM
hahahahaa an expensive one. I should have said front and rear bumpers and a winch.

My experience with CES is $1,800 for a tank with powder coating plus a 3-4 day installation charge with whatever accessories are needed (aprox $700-1,000 more). The installation might seem expensive but it it is how CES makes sure that everything works.

This is no way a quote if you want a real number call Shane at CES.

Cudos to cwvandy for making this possible!

Pus 3-4 days is time to eat/drink at every brewery in Bend, if you don't mind drinking beer for breakfast that is...

bobDog
11-09-2012, 02:53 AM
hahahahaa an expensive one. I should have said front and rear bumpers and a winch.

My experience with CES is $1,800 for a tank with powder coating plus a 3-4 day installation charge with whatever accessories are needed (aprox $700-1,000 more). The installation might seem expensive but it it is how CES makes sure that everything works.

This is no way a quote if you want a real number call Shane at CES.

Cudos to cwvandy for making this possible!

Pus 3-4 days is time to eat/drink at every brewery in Bend, if you don't mind drinking beer for breakfast that is...

You could still have a great time on Bend for far less:D

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

cam-shaft
11-09-2012, 01:41 PM
Wait until the MT. opens then catch some fresh powder at Bachelor. Makes those beers taste much better at the end of the day.

Cam-shaft.

chris@rmfwc.com
12-29-2012, 12:51 AM
I would like to chime in and give thanks to Shayne and his crew at Custom Exhaust Specialties (http://www.4customexhaust.com/) (CES) for building such an awesome tank! Their customer service was also outstanding. I would recommend them to anyone that values quality work and quality service. Shayne even gave me his personal cell number so we could contact him after hours in case there were any problems. Good people!

I'd also like to send thanks to cwvandy (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/members/5932-cwvandy) for taking on this project with CES. There are so many other second generation Tacoma owners interested in a long range fuel tank and this is finally a real option.


We dropped off our truck on a Monday morning this past October and it was finished by the following Wednesday afternoon. My wife and I and our two dogs went brewery hopping and spent a couple nights in a inexpensive hotel in-between. :) Bend is great city! Lots of good food and beer. And I'm also obsessed with breakfast and Bend had plenty to offer there as well.

The cost of the tank was $1,800. Installation, powder coat, custom skid plate, etc was another $1,000.

The tank ended up with a 40 gallon capacity and can be topped-off completely due to the venting design. We know this bc we drove out of the shop with about 3-4 gallons and took on 37.2 gallons at the station less than two miles away.

EDIT: It's been covered thoroughly already in this thread but just to be clear the tank uses all factory equipment like the sending unit, fuel gauge, pick up, pump, and all the lines except for one that runs from the tank to the charcoal canister which gets replaced with a slightly longer one. The gauge inside the cab works just like it did before however, you will notice it is very slow to react due to the capacity of the tank being increased by almost double. When my gas light comes on I can still count on running another 75 (or more) miles before I really need to get gas - pretty cool.

The tank is just a tiny bit deeper than the stock one and the pickup does NOT have a problem picking up fuel even when it gets very low. The bottom of the tank is NOT sloped towards the pick up and is completely flat. This means that due to the large flat size of the tank bottom you could have 3 or 4 gallons remaining in the tank just barely covering the bottom thus not providing much to the pickup - especially if the truck was on a steep angle on the trail.

I drove out of CES with approx 3-4 gallons of gas in my tank and went a couple miles down the road to a gas station - the needle on the gas gauge was bottomed out like I've never seen before and the truck had no issues getting to the fill station. That was flat easy driving without any big hills and again, just a couple miles away. I also don't push it beyond that due to the size of the tank and that I really don't know when it will shut off - but you can certainly let the needle bottom out for quite a while without concerns which is a new thing I am getting use to. It stresses my wife out but we have become much more in-tune with consumption and mileage rather than just reading the needle. EDIT

The single item that comes to mind with this tank is that I do NOT fill the tank 100% if I'm NOT going to drive shortly thereafter.

Not only bc fuel goes bad as someone mentioned earlier in this thread - more on a scale of months which isn't a big concern for us but still worth noting. But also, with that much fuel and such little airspace remaining (due to the vents working so well) I am suspicious that a major temperature change could cause enough gas vapor expansion to become a problem if at least a gallon or so hadn't been been consumed from the time of fill up to the time of parking. Most stock/OEM fuel tanks come with a gallon or two worth of airspace for expansion. And the first click of the gas pump on this new tank and it is literally filled to the brim. Cool, but does this come with issues???

After talking with Shayne and reading earlier posts in this thred, it sounds like CES had addressed this with their prototype tank and was solved with a longer line from the gas tank to the charcoal canister. And on that subject I also believe that the problem with the original shorter line on the first tank was that fuel could get into that line and then into the charcoal canister at a steep angle on the trail - so the longer line issue may not even be related to expansion. But that is still in the back of my mind to be honest and am cautious to just fill the tank and then go park it immideately. Additionally, even without actual gasoline getting into the canister I wonder how a heavy vapor-load time after time could affect the "weight-gain" of the canister in the long term. Starting to split hairs now.

Having written my devils advocate point of view we still couldn't be happier and now have a 500-600 mile range with our Tacoma and FWC. Just what we always wanted!!! And with thousands of miles on the road (and off) since install and no problems to speak of we're super happy. No check engine light, passes CO emissions test - including the portion where they check the gas tank, and all in all you don't know its there aside from the cost at the pump :Wow1:.

Please note that these photos were taken on a camera phone and show the tank in various stages of completion.

cam-shaft
12-29-2012, 03:26 PM
Looks good, love the FWC. Bend is a wonderful place, glad you were able to enjoy.

Cam-shaft.

TangoBlue
12-29-2012, 06:25 PM
This is great news for the second gen Tacoma owners. Since its original development, the product has been installed and used on several trucks, all with good results.

This makes my list of 2012's best products. So its got that going for it... almost wish I had a second gen.

Rotorgeek
12-30-2012, 05:52 AM
Do they have a way to connect to the fuel guage or do you just go off miles driven?

bobDog
12-30-2012, 06:57 AM
Do they have a way to connect to the fuel guage or do you just go off miles driven?



Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

shortbusadventure
12-30-2012, 07:44 AM
Factory gauge works like stock. The entire factory pump/sender assembly is put in the new tank. It just takes twice as long for the needle to go down. When the fuel light comes on, you have twice as much left as the stock tank.

Dave Bennett
12-30-2012, 07:30 PM
This is great news for the second gen Tacoma owners. Since its original development, the product has been installed and used on several trucks, all with good results.

This makes my list of 2012's best products.

X2

chris@rmfwc.com
12-30-2012, 11:37 PM
This is great news for the second gen Tacoma owners. Since its original development, the product has been installed and used on several trucks, all with good results.
This makes my list of 2012's best products. So its got that going for it... almost wish I had a second gen.

Couldn't agree more! We went into this as number 7 or 8 if I remember correctly. It's one of those things you never know for sure but we had a good feeling about it and took the leap. The tank is getting more and more popular according to CES and they are making it more economical/easier to build and install. Rather than the one-off the first one was. This helps both the customer and CES and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend their shop to anyone. They have a nice place and would probably do more business with them, for all kinds of things, if I lived in that neck of the woods.

We are actually getting ready to part ways with our 2005 Taco next year that was in the photos. When we begin the build of our new 2013 Tacoma we are going to get another tank for sure. A much more moderate and less Hollywood inspired version than we did 7 years ago.


Do they have a way to connect to the fuel guage or do you just go off miles driven?

Good question; I went back and edited my post too. The gauge works perfectly. Just takes a while to react due to the large size of the tank.


It just takes twice as long for the needle to go down. When the fuel light comes on, you have twice as much left as the stock tank.

Well said, sir.

dnorrell
01-02-2013, 11:40 PM
Can anyone confirm if this tank would fit a regular cab 2nd gen? I don't have a Tacoma yet, but it could happen :)

shortbusadventure
01-02-2013, 11:46 PM
Can anyone confirm if this tank would fit a regular cab 2nd gen? I don't have a Tacoma yet, but it could happen :)

The stock tanks are the same on all 2nd Gen Tacoma. The only truck that has presented different mounting issues was a crew cab long bed. I'm thinking the standard cab should not be a problem, but don't quote me.

hornytoad
01-14-2013, 02:52 PM
Just got back from CES in Bend and have to say that Shane and his crew did an awesome job with my truck! I highly recommend this mod to anyone that is roaming around alone in the wilderness. :wings:

skygear
01-29-2013, 06:36 AM
What additionally did you do suspension wise? AAL?

I'm glad you guys got this of the ground. I have been following it since it began.

RangeBrover
01-29-2013, 06:39 AM
Based on photos it appears that this tank does not have baffles? Also this might have been addressed before but as far as legality of goes where does this stand? I was thinking about getting an FJ with the MAF tank but worried about getting rear ended, insurance liability, etc. So since this tank is replacing the stock one are you in the clear or is it technically not DOT legal?

skygear
01-29-2013, 07:45 AM
called yesterday and talked with shane, nice guy. still only limited production. talked with him about the possibility of making some out of aluminum for the same price as steel, his is open to it but wants to make a few more before he changes material, 6 months or so was his answer. price for steel is 1800, he thinks the same for alu as well. so in about 6 months it sounds like he will be open to making them production not just single. keep your eyes open for this i know i will be moving on this then, just enough time to save the bucks.
So can we get it at 1800 shipped?

Based on photos it appears that this tank does not have baffles? Also this might have been addressed before but as far as legality of goes where does this stand? I was thinking about getting an FJ with the MAF tank but worried about getting rear ended, insurance liability, etc. So since this tank is replacing the stock one are you in the clear or is it technically not DOT legal? DOES have 4 baffles actually.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/73665-Custom-35-gallon-gas-tank-for-09-Tacoma?p=1247739#post1247739
look there

RangeBrover
01-29-2013, 07:53 AM
Gotcha wasn't paying attention. What about the legality?

skygear
01-29-2013, 08:06 AM
thats the grey area. Well, not really grey - NOT LEGAL since it carys fuel and is not DOT certified. BUT - Legality is relative here. For off road use only is how they should be sold, and then they are legal from what I can find. Now as for street use. - 95% of the "Inspectors" do not do their job properly. With the skid plate concealing/ protecting it, there is even less chance of someone "catching" it. Also that it would take an inspector that is familiar with the Tacoma's to know what exactly they are looking at under there at all.

When it comes to an accident (impact), insurance company's might be upset from a liability standpoint. What happens if that non DOT fuel tank ruptures in an accident and causes MORE damage?... These are the risks we all take adding and removing anything that is not "OEM" from the respective car manufacturer's vehicles.

I am a responsible driver, I do not normally take unnecessary risks while driving. However, I cannot control other people on the roads. I was in an accident recently where there was no way of avoiding it. Breaks to the floor and e-brake pushed too. Still T-Boned the guy making an illegal turn across traffic where we had the right of way. - Accidents happen.

Every bit of weight on my rig counts. Traveling with the family and filling up the cab with people makes weight a real problem. Storage space an even bigger one.

daveyd
01-29-2013, 02:50 PM
Friction from slippage, constant vibration between two loaded steel structures may spark. Do you think it would have been best, to have inserted a length of threaded core rubber 1/8th" of an inch thick in between the tank and each strap?

I know most automobile manufacturers that perform steel gas tank installations do take this extra step of precaution.

If you have done this already, please disregard. Just looking out for you is all.

steve103
01-30-2013, 01:50 PM
im working on a group buy. after talking with shane, if he can get5 people in on this price would be 2,150 each plus shipping. tank is 1800 plus skid hose strap and clamps bring us to 2500. so the more people in on this the price goes down. pm me if your interested..
here is a link http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/94285-35-gal-fuel-tank-group-buy?highlight=35+gal+fuel+tank+group+buy

clcoyle
01-30-2013, 07:40 PM
I'm interested.....I will be in Bend in two weeks and would love to come see the shop and the tank.

TscotR214
03-29-2013, 11:22 PM
Feedback on tank #6 on my 07 Tacoma double cab 4x4 V6. Had Shane install last November 2012, drove up from Santa Cruz to Bend. Tank has worked fine for several months street only, and mild fire roads. I'm currently sitting in Victorville Toyota dealership feeling lucky to be here. Out testing truck in Mohave/ Joshua Tree area, tank worked great for desert race to mountain, did great rock crawl thru canyons and up over mountain peaks. Problem starts when returning to flat ground. Truck will starve of fuel and stall after a mile or two of dead flat sandy road driving back to pavement. Will idle, but moment foot goes on gas engine starves and stalls. Turn key off, sit a few minutes, starts up and drives for anywhere from 200yds to a mile before stalling again. Turn off, sit, repeat. Finally left truck in desert and got ride back to camp from passerby. Next day, repeated drive stall stop start drive repeat back to camp, 7hrs. Today, did same thing on pavement to Toyota dealer. They report fuel lines run incorrectly, vent issues, and fuel pump burnt. All my offroading was done starting with 36gallons and dropping to 22gallons, then made it to dealer with 14gallons. Plenty according to Shane. Toyota is taking 4day weekend for easter, so I'm renting car to drive 300miles back home, leaving truck for parts for a week, then back to pick it up next weekend. I'm asking Toyota dealer to completely remove all CES parts and returning truck to stock tank. This means I'm buying new stock fuel tank again, plus all stock hoses, filter, pump, etc, plus labor, several thousand $$$ out of pocket. CES tank clearly did not work for me. I called Shane from top of mountain out in middle of desert, he thought maybe tank needed side baffles to prevent air during high speed s-turn driving, but that does not account for dead flat desert straight line crawling. Dealer suspects pump runs too exposed to air, even with over half full tank 28gallons, at typical steep rock crawling angles for several hours. Note, truck was in to Santa Cruz Toyota a month or so ago because Shane installs fuel lines without guides and they easily pinch against frame when tank is lowered / raised, thus cutting off all fuel flow entirely, and at that time fuel pump was fully tested, so unless pump failed in last few weeks, CES tank is culprit. Seemed like a great idea, in my experience more R&D required. Very embarrassing being the guy with 24gallons in his tank, yet out of fuel.

TscotR214
03-29-2013, 11:25 PM
Steve103, damn it, you were right! Let me help you install that OZland tank so I can see how it goes in, as evidently I'm back in the market for a fuel tank again..........****.

slooowr6
03-29-2013, 11:29 PM
@TscotR214, thanks for your feedback. Sorry to hear all the trouble you have to go through. Please keep us updated on OZland tank.

steve103
03-31-2013, 05:19 PM
scot. sorry to hear your wows. im off to saline valley this morning when i get back ill give you a call

hornytoad
04-01-2013, 03:30 PM
TscorR214 - got a couple of questions about the pump failure. Were you getting a CEL? If you were did you have a code?

When I had my CES tank installed in January on my 2012 double cab I an across a few Toyota issues that the CES tank made worse. THe CES tak is pressurized to check for leaks and the vent hoses use hose clamps. THe stock hoses/tank do not use clamps on vent lines. Soo I started geting CEL's from te get go. A little bit searching of and a trip to the dealership resulted in a new gas cap. CEL still happened. Then I crawled under the truck, dropped the spare tire and started examineing the vent valve/charcoal canister hoses. And the factory hose was loose enough to wiggle. a few hose clamps a code reset and a computer reset and the truck was in business!

My thoughts on what was happening on my truck was that the emission system had a "light" vacuum leak not enough to always throw a code but enough that the engine was having to compensate for it. Because the CES gear was tighter than the Toyota equipment is was putting strain on the weak link (no hose clamps where there are hoses). I called up shane at CES and let him know what had transpired and he was very appreciative of the info.

On your truck is sounds like a line or the gas cap or emissions system was clogged and that you pump burned it's self out trying to pump gas in a vacuum.
My reasoning is this - you have lots of gas in the tank, the truck idles but when you need more fuel it dies. Truck was running fine on uneven terrain, but on flat terrain the truck would not run.

Air HAS to be pulled into the tank when fuel is pumped out or the tank goes into vacuum lock. The gas cap has a one way valve in it to allow such a fluid/air transfer. When the tank is pressurized from gasoline going into vapor state the charcoal canister catchs that ands a sealed system vents those fumes into the engine on start up. When gasoline is sloshed around it creates it's own positive pressure by going into a liquid/vapor state. This positive pressure may have given you enough "Draw" on your tank to drive normally. But once you got onto smooth surfaces and put the hammer down to drive back to camp it locked up.

On my truck the old gas cap failed by attempting to weld it'self to the filler neck. Pliers were required a couple of times to remove the gas cap so I could fill up the tank, and when the cap came off there was always a large woosh of releasing a vacuum from the fuel tank.

I know it sucks to break down in the middle of know-where and to spend heaps of money on a suspect mod, but I hope you have the time to figure out what the exact problem was.

PS I also agree that CES should build some looms or guides for their lines. For this type of $$$ zip ties don't cut it anymore.

RangeBrover
04-01-2013, 08:13 PM
Hope they manage to figure this out, really is a great idea and great mod.

TscotR214
04-01-2013, 09:29 PM
Update on my burnt fuel pump, as of this morning Monday April 1st. Yes, I did get a CEL on the second day, but it was only 171's and 174's, which are excess oxygen on left bank and right bank (system too lean), or in other words, NO GAS. I really didn't need my ScanGuage to tell me that, but it was reassuring to know that was indeed the problem and quite nice to be able to clear the codes, if only to relieve the agitation of sitting in the middle of an intersection, stalled, with an annoying check engine light to add to my misery.

And my very first thought was a vacuum situation as well, given sloshing and desert heat. The first day, my first fix attempt was to turn engine off and open gas cap. I listened as I loosened cap, trying to detect any unusual whooshing either direction, but cap and tank pressures behaved normally. Additionally, that did not solve any issues. The second day, getting back to camp, I tried the gas cap trick a few more times, no effect either way. Now, that's not to say that unusual pressures were indeed the initial cause of the issue, and by the time my truck stalled the first time the damage had already been done to the fuel pump, so that's a very good point for consideration. I've bombed around plenty with that truck before the CES tank with no ill effects, but again my fuel cap could have just failed on this trip. Hard to rule out coincidences, unfortunately.

Status: truck is still in Victorville, I'm driving a rental Camry schmoo car, bleck. Dealer quote is around $2k for new factory fuel pump in CES tank. I'm having them investigate an EXTERNAL fuel pump and filter, and at the same time install the factory TRD supercharger while they're messing with all the fuel system stuff. Kind of throwing them a bone with the supercharger if they're willing to research and install the external fuel pump, and either way they have to drop the CES tank so my current thoughts are to ditch the internal fuel pump and go external. Or, now with this new info, crud, maybe give the internal pump one more try with a new gas cap and make sure everything has clamps? Who knows. Will certainly report back as project develops. yeah, it's always a project.....

Side note, the, uh, well, extra skid plate that Shane puts on the CES tank, is, uh, pretty beefy. Not that I, uh, may have tested it a time or two..... How do you know where your limits are if you don't exceed them once in awhile, I always say!

hornytoad
04-03-2013, 02:40 AM
TscotR214

Outch! That's a rough bill for that pump. If you do a lot of rock crawling and angled driving can you add a heat sink to the internal pump body? I have seen finned heat sinks for ATV's and dirtbikes. Maybe one could be stuffed into the tank??

Good luck with the repairs!!

TscotR214
04-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Wednesday update: After multiple phone calls to Shane at CES and Ken at TRD (the actual in-the-dirt racing section of Toyota Racing Development), the verdict on the factory Toyota fuel pump is this: as long as the fuel pump is pumping fuel, any fuel, the internal flow of fuel through the pump to the engine is sufficient to keep the pump cool, indefinitely. Notice the word "indefinitely" comes straight from TRD, but the guy seemed pretty darn genuine and honest, and turns out we've driven some of the same sections of roads in Baja so I don't feel like he was just blowing factory smoke at me. The TRD guys have experimented with their race trucks for just such an eventuality as low fuel / burnt pump, and they've never had issues, even bombing through Baja on fumes, and they can afford to put whatever they want on those factory race trucks, so...... Kind of leaves me in a pickle. A finned heat sink seems like a good idea, but I thought an external pump would be an easy solution too. Turns out an external fuel pump would require a sloped fuel tank with a bottom bung outlet, which the CES tank with it's perfectly flat bottom most definitely is not. You can run an external pump with a draw straw through the top of the tank, but according to the TRD race guys, they tried that and ended up sucking more air than fuel most of the time, even with baffles and sumps. Shane does external pumps and draw straws quite a bit on diesels, but mostly for flat freeway driving, not desert racing. Shane also called a few CES tank owners to question them about their driving habits and experiences, and evidently I'm unique in how hard I push my truck. Oops. Can't have Toyota without Toy. Today I asked the Victorville Toyota dealer to install a new factory fuel pump, the TRD factory supercharger, and to keep the old fuel pump so I can send it to Shane for post-mortem inspection so we can all figure out what's going on.

TangoBlue
04-04-2013, 07:27 AM
TscotR214,

"Goodonya" on several counts!

Sharing your rational observations and thorough description of the issues. Your desire for a detailed analysis to develop a satisfactory conclusion/solution for this issue. Your thorough accounts leave little to the imagination.

All too often we see whining and accusations; your taking ownership of the problem is refreshing and hopefully will inspire others.

Thanks for keeping us posted; even those of us who won't be able to employ this tank are learning from your experience. Thanks!

Captm
04-04-2013, 03:45 PM
X2

hornytoad
04-04-2013, 06:01 PM
X3

I'm really glad that you are working with TRD and CES to figure this out. Something to ask the TRD guys is the impact of the emissions gear. If something clogs/fails/get's pinched on one of our rigs we have all the CARB complaint stuff to fail and then stress out other parts of the fuel injection system.

This in turn could burn up the pump or cause the computer to default into "limp home mode". (Do we have this?? BMWs have a default can't hurt anything driveabality mode, that doesn't let you drive more than 55mph and runs super rich) Either way could potentially strand us.

TscotR214
04-05-2013, 08:42 PM
Friday update: So here's some news from the TRD race folks, confirmed with my local gas supplier, my experiences with my own charter vessel (dive boat), and confirmed in my drink with ice cubes I'm crying in now. Gasoline, straight petroleum gasoline, is hydrophobic (hates water) and does not absorb water. If we get a little water in our tanks, usually common place in most gas stations, refineries, etc, that small amount of water will sink to the bottom of the tank (gasoline floats in water) and be pulled out and burnt off in the first few seconds when we start our engines. Boats have gasoline (or diesel) / water separators for just that purpose, that simply get drained on a periodic basis. That's with pure gas. Now, living in California as I do, we get the joys of ethanol. Ethanol is a type of alcohol, and alcohol is hydrophilic, meaning it loves water, and thus with our 5% - 15% ethanol blends being produced for the CA market, we get gasoline that doesn't float on top of water but absorbs water evenly throughout the mix. Thus, in a mild steel tank as the one produced by CES, instead of occasionally having a small amount of water in the very bottom of the tank for a few hours (like overnight for example), we have fuel mixed evenly with water that continuously coats the inside of the steel tank with, well, water. The result: rust. Guaranteed. Not avoidable. No additives available to prevent alcohol from absorbing water (damn ice cubes are watering down my drink, along with my tears), nothing you can do about it. Gave Shane a call, he confirms. Shane has been considering a tank from stainless steel, but was concerned the cost would be exorbitant. The last tank he made he tried an internal coating, advice from a local radiator shop, that shows some promise but is only a few weeks old so probably needs a few months testing to confirm usability. Personally I don't trust coatings unless the bond is truly at the molecular level, but I would pony up for a stainless version. I simply cannot afford to be stranded in the middle of nowhere by some mechanical aspect that is avoidable with foresight at home. I always carry satellite based rescue beacons (like ePIRBS), so help is just a helicopter ride away, but still would suck to airlift my truck out of some canyon somewhere (two straps on front bumper, two on rear bumper, two on each side rock slider, eight straps total will work as airlift attachment points for most Tacoma air loads, if ya all ever have the need, by the way). Until we cut my fuel pump apart to confirm cause of death we can't say for sure that rust was the issue, to be fair, but mechanic reports entire inside of CES tank filmed with rust (not flake rust, but film, can draw pictures with your finger kind of film), fuel filter is brown, and fuel lines are brown inside all the way to injectors, which means I've been burning super fine non-soluble rust for a few months. Everyone also thinks that possibly my high speed desert driving did a super job of sloshing the heck out of the inside of the CES tank and thoroughly rinsing any and all available rust film off and into the fuel system, as my first stall occurred within a mile or so of a particularly (super outrageously fun) curvy s-turn section followed by a straight soft sand passing section (super slosh, rinse, settle, suck into pump, fuel fail, in that order). The Victorville dealer is pulling the CES tank at my request, replacing it with a standard OEM factory tank, and returning my truck to stock configuration (well, new supercharger) for now. Water in the fuel was always an issue for me in Baja, and now evidently throughout ethanol country as well if I continue to run a mild-steel tank. Shane has been super responsive and helpful, and I'll either get my CES tank internally coated in the future if that option survives the test of time for a few months, or see how my neighbor's OZ tank looks when it arrives in a few weeks, or pay Shane to make a stainless version of the CES tank. In any case, I just don't feel comfortable with the combination of hydrophilic ethanol and raw mild steel at this time. Obviously there's plenty more research to be done, but it could be a few months yet for results.

On the "limp home mode" question, TRD reports the best thing to do is get a code-clearing OBDII device (ScanGuage for example) and just clear any codes you get to keep you driving. In one tech's words: "Sure you might fry your engine, those shut down codes are designed to protect the mechanical integrity of all those moving parts, but would you rather be sitting in the desert staring at an annoying light for the rest of your (short) life, or back in a hotel room sipping ice cubes and wiring home for money transfers to get your engine replaced?"

hornytoad
04-05-2013, 09:12 PM
Damm TscotR214 that's rough. I wonder if the type of steel could be altered to prevent rust on the tank like that? For offshore use companies make stainless steel coated mild steel for structural anti corrosion use. Cheaper and stronger than the equivalent thickness of stainless steel. Or maybe even Parkerise the whole tank? Some type of molecular coating like guns and knives use could be called for.

I hope Shane can come up with a solution to this, because being stranded is one of the reasons I want the supertanker.

So what's so hot about the Ausie tanks? Are they hot dipped after welding?

TscotR214
04-05-2013, 09:36 PM
Good questions. I just googled for OZ tank info, got this back. Manufacturer is http://thelongranger.com.au/4wdfueltanks.html. Only info for Toyota is for the Hilux, their version of our Tacoma's, and FAQ page wasn't working, but here's the pdf brochure link for the Hilux http://thelongranger.com.au/Tanks/TR63/2005%20Toyota%20Hilux%20TR63%20Long%20Ranger%20Rep lacement%20Fuel%20Tank%20Sales%20Brochure.pdf

Looks like it's made from 2mm hot dipped aluminised steel, whatever the heck that is. Wiki search gave this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminized_steel. Looks like mild steel, hot dipped in aluminum, kind of like hot dipped galvanized steel for fence posts, etc. Strength of steel, aluminum coating? Sign me up. I know from the boating world that straight aluminum tanks really suck, too rigid to stand the pounding and flexing a smaller vessel at sea can impart on a fuel cell. Although from the pdf brochure photo, that's just asking for a rock. I like how the CES tank tucks up nicely, and I can testify from experience that Shane's skid plate works great (or my driving sucks, which is also true). I'm sure this hot dip approach is way cheaper than pure stainless, and I tend to trust hot dip fairly well as a method in general. The Aussie folks have been making these Long Ranger tanks for a really long time, so they have tons of experience with this method, but we'll have to see how the ethanol reacts. I do know that when I get fuel from a non-ethanol source my MPG goes up by at least 5-7 MPG, it's insane. I don't know about New Mexico, but when I fueled up in Medford OR I got 24MPG on the way home, and when I fueled up in Mojave CA I got 22MPG wheeling through the desert, compared to my typical 15MPG in Santa Cruz CA. Cleaner air, but takes more fuel to go the same distance. I'm not much of a fan of ethanol yet, obviously. And the Aussie tanks are much lighter as well. Haven't held one in my hands yet, but new friend from this forum is getting one in a few weeks and lives a few blocks away, kinda cool, so I'll definitely be Johnny-on-the-spot helpful dude just for the experience of installing his.

I'm having the Victorville dealer add an in-line fuel tee for the express purpose of pumping fuel from the (soon to be factory) tank into a gas can to help out a stranded friend in need, another reason I wanted the supertanker as well.

kmacafee
04-06-2013, 12:39 AM
A few months ago, I posted this on a thread trying to get a group buy going: "I was just in a store in Namibia that is selling a stainless steel auxilairy tank for the Hilux with a 100 Litre capacity (26 gallons) for 2995 Rand. At the current exchange rate, thats about 390 US dollars. Installation was 500 Rand or $56 bucks. I asked the guy if the pricing was correct and he said it was. They install about 10 a month.

It seems it would be cheaper to figure out how to import them."

Zolo, TangoBlue and others blasted me for somehow trying to negatively impact the group buy. I pointed out that I had helped install one of the Hilux tanks in a 2nd gen Tacoma with minor modifications but was basically called a liar.

I am truly sorry for all the problems and cost incurred by TscotR214. But seriously -- just because a machine shop decides to play in the gas tank world doesn't mean they should. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that untreated steel is inappropriate for a fuel tank. Fortunately this issue came up before a tank failed and exploded causing injury or death.

TangoBlue and Zolo -- I'm sure you guys have expertise at something. Stick to whatever that is because its not in the field of metallurgy or gas tanks.

colodak
04-06-2013, 01:24 AM
while not a Toyota owner, I have followed this thread for a couple of months. TscotR, BG keeps running a commercial on Sat. radio for some product to add to the gas tank to help counter the ethanol fuels, haven't looked into it yet, but something to ponder.

cam-shaft
04-06-2013, 02:51 AM
Good call on the drain especially with todays fuel. Next time do a 1.5-2" drain also, speaking from experience. I think the only problem you guys need to be aware of is filling the tank completly full and not burning it off anytime soon. With todays alcohol in the fuel, fuel starts to go bad in over a month. I would just run tank low on gas unless planning a long trip. Remember adding fresh fuel to old bad gas is like adding good milk to sour milk.


Did not even cross my mind that they were not using an aluminized steel, I should of caught that. Sorry for your mis-fortunes. Pure aluminum tank properly built would work well and be the best option in my mind, just make sure mounting of tank is strapped without any mounting hardware being welded to tank, that is where the tank would start to crack. Aluminum is consistantly used for fuel tanks in the marine world, it is just knowing how to properly mount them so that they do not crack.:) Todays fuel has up to 10% alcohol and your good ol government is trying to push 15%. Alcohol attracts water.
Yamaha makes a good product, fuel stabliizer (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/145/all/1/10006/detail.aspx). I personally run a little marvels mystery oil (http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/)in my fuel tank, but I dont have as much fuel to go bad over-time. With todays fuel I think a transfer tank or gas cans are hard to beat. (always cycling the fuel).

Cam-shaft.

Captm
04-06-2013, 03:33 AM
While not addressing the issue of tank material construction I have often wondered why fuel filter/water separators are not used on our trucks. It seams like a Racor Gasoline Spin On Fuel Filter/Water Separator would do the job.
Cheers

cam-shaft
04-06-2013, 01:42 PM
While not addressing the issue of tank material construction I have often wondered why fuel filter/water separators are not used on our trucks. It seams like a Racor Gasoline Spin On Fuel Filter/Water Separator would do the job.
Cheers

With todays alcohol in fuel we may see something like this in the future or good modification. The problems still is the source(tank) and the fuel pump that sits in the tank, it is before everything, so the filter would just protect the injectors. Plus mass quantities of water as one sees with old acohol gas, your racor could only collect so much. If there is water in the fuel then the process of phase seperation has began and your fuel is pretty much on its way to have no octane rating and can cause major problems anyhow.

My personal recommendation for people that have this tank would be to first verify that they have no water in tank and that it has not begun to rust inteternally. If your tank shows good and you are willing to continue on using it, then I would personally try to avoid ethanol blended fuel. (we have a few stations in oregon that offer E-0 in 92 octane) or if you continue to run the ethanol gas make sure you dont let the gas get old and always add a fuel system treatment. The old theory of filling up the tank is no good with alcohol fuel. How do you keep ethanol gas from getting old? Best way in my mind is cycle the fuel, keep that large tank on the empty side unless needing it full for a trip where you know you will be burning through fuel. Remember this as I stated a long while ago, adding good gas to bad gas is the same as adding good milk to sour milk, it is still not good. Ethanol gas becomes old quickly, especially if your truck is stored in an environment with a lot of temperature change. Building a large volume fuel tank today and not understanding todays quality of fuel is a recipe for disaster, in my mind.

On another note: TscotR214 concerning that trd supercharger kit you are installing. I am not familiar with the kit and if it comes with new lb/per hr injectors or it just comes with more injectors. What I am getting at is if the old injectors are used at all the dealer needs to have them cleaned and flowed or just replace. All of that rust and debris is sitting in your injector screens. Lack of the proper amount of fuel and good quality fuel under-boost usually does not have a happy ending. :)

Cam-shaft.

steve103
04-06-2013, 03:43 PM
im soooo glad i did not go with this tank for myself and that the group buy i was working on did not happen. i am looking forward to the oz tank. aluminized steel, i think this kind of tank is a much better idea.

Finlay
04-06-2013, 03:59 PM
I wonder if a gas tank liner would work. Way back in the day, my dad would make a gas tank and coat it with something like this (http://www.kbs-coatings.com/tank-sealers.html) to keep it from rusting out inside. He usually used RedKote (http://4secondsflat.com/Fuel_Tank_Sealer.html) and that seemed to work pretty well.

hornytoad
04-06-2013, 04:27 PM
Fuel tank liners might be the way to go. Motorcycle use steel tanks and have fuel injection what are those manufactures doing?

Back in the mid 90's I had a 20 year old BMW that had to have the gas tank repaired. The shop acid dipped it after repairing rust damage and then coated it inside and out with a high temp epoxy. Do shops still do this?

I have seen kits for motorcycle gas tanks ( I imagine they exist for cars and boats too) that allow a handy person to etch the steel tank and then coat it with an epoxy they is supposed to last "forever". Anybody ever use one of these? Maybe Shane could offer this as part of the tank build?

Has anybody asked CES what the price difference is for a stainless tank?

hornytoad
04-06-2013, 04:42 PM
Finlay -Whoops! Guess I should have read your links. I wonder if CES has any experience with these.

Cam-Shaft - In an ideal world we would get the "good" gas everywhere. Here in NM I have no idea where to get non-ethanol fuel. With my driving habits the fuel never sat long in my CES tank and I live in the desert so moisture in the fuel should have been less of a problem.

However your right, in the US we are going to see higher levels of ethanol in the fuel. E15 is going to become the new norm in a the next year or two. Partly due to increased emission restrictions and partly due to the removal of MTBE from the fuel due to health concerns. MTBE is an octane booster/knock inhibitor that is being pulled from most fuel production due to is carcinogenic properties and that fact that it is water soluble. Which makes it difficult to remove from the soil/ground water when underground storage tanks leak. (And they ALL leak, every single one of them).

So unfortunately we need to start looking at fuel storage and transportation as dealing with this ethanol/water problem in our gas. it's not going to go away and the idea of buying non-ethanol fuel is going to become harder and harder to do here in the US.

shov3lbum
04-06-2013, 07:28 PM
For any who are curious there are many stations selling non-ethanol gas in my state, Wisconsin, unfortunately not in the metro area I'm located, but whenever a station is selling pure straight gas they always advertise it because they know people love to get pure gas.

I found this website http://pure-gas.org/ That I will be using when I start my trip to Colorado this summer. It looks pretty legit, doesn't have the usual suspects, BP, Shell, but does have Citgo, Hyvee, Hiway, so it sounds like it could be very useful, especially for those of us who are concerned about gas.

TEJASYOTA
04-06-2013, 08:00 PM
Good questions. I just googled for OZ tank info, got this back. Manufacturer is http://thelongranger.com.au/4wdfueltanks.html. Only info for Toyota is for the Hilux, their version of our Tacoma's, and FAQ page wasn't working, but here's the pdf brochure link for the Hilux http://thelongranger.com.au/Tanks/TR63/2005%20Toyota%20Hilux%20TR63%20Long%20Ranger%20Rep lacement%20Fuel%20Tank%20Sales%20Brochure.pdf


FYI... I have been in contact with Long Ranger, the tanks for the Tacoma's Gen-I, is NOT compatible with the HiLux.

I meant the other way around.... HiLux, not compatible towards the Gen-I
DUe to mount points and other items.

TangoBlue
04-07-2013, 03:58 AM
TscotR214 thanks for your follow-up report. If you're interested in learning more about the Long Ranger tanks being imported into the US check with Outback Proven (http://outbackproven.com/if-558-contact.html) and what is available for your second Gen Tacoma; call Ben Meddows. I know they took delivery of a shipment from Australia earlier this month that included some aux and LR tanks.

Or you can go to Namibia according to the definitive guidance offered by one contributor. I have it on good authority that they are less than $500 installed and they install about ten a month. The obstacle is that the HILUX is not the same as the Tacoma and fitment may be an issue, however, I suspect a competent fabricator could make it work if you're willing to assume the burden of the cost of a HILUX tank that might work and the hourly rate for a fab shop, with experience successfully installing long range or auxiliary tanks, mount it for you.

Like cam-shaft, I recommend a separate transfer tank as well. I run a poly MTS (http://www.mtscompany.com/)tank between the frame rails behind the rear axle which required a good deal of fabrication but provides me 37 gallons of fuel (combined).

hornytoad
04-14-2013, 04:00 PM
TscotR214 - Anything going on? Any word from Shane at CES?

Booosted Supra
04-14-2013, 11:38 PM
I am not a taco driver, 2nd gen 4runner driver and I read this entire thread, I was kinda wondering from the get go about what was going to be done for a intake coating for the the steel like jerry/nato cans. Any word or update from the original tank that was built or any others to see what kind of issues they developed? Still seems like a good tank and great piece of craftsmanship once the coating/metal is figured out. Not for nothing you have to give everyone credit who is involved, companies who make a product like this will beat it to death and product test this over and over, in this case everyone here who did this mod was in fact the lab rats(not meant as an insult). Any updates on this?

TscotR214
04-15-2013, 10:10 PM
Update 04/15/13: RRRRRRRRRR UUUUUUUUUU SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS T. Lots of rust. Rust everywhere. See attached photos. First few are of factory filter attached to bottom of fuel pump and rust in bottom of factory fuel pump sump (all that red stuff stuck to all the white plastic stuff). Next few are me sticking my camera inside my tank, showing internal rust ranging from light surface coating to heavy pitting to full on major flaking (silver spots that look like water stains are where LARGE flakes have come off). On the filter, you can not only see surface rust stuck to sump and outer screen, but allow me to draw attention to the fact that the interior of that filter is completely clogged full of rust, it's literally bulging with rust. And for the inside of the tank, it's kind of weird how some areas just have a light film of rust, others a pretty good coating, others major pitting and flaking, while the front wall looks nice and shiny in places still. Must still have some oil left over from manufacturing still on it, which may have protected it for a few more months before rust sets in everywhere. And as we all know about rust, it eventually eats it way right through, producing product failure.

15564015564115564215564315564415564515564615564715 5648

I haven't spoken with Shane yet today, I just picked my truck up from Victorville last Friday. Nothing like 16hrs straight driving down and back, bleck. I have my fuel pump ready to ship up to Shane to let him cut apart, and I'll send him these photos as well. The CES tank is sitting in my driveway, I'm running the replacement factory OEM tank, everything back to stock configuration.

TscotR214
04-15-2013, 10:18 PM
Just occured to me that not many pictures posted here of the actual tank. Adding some here:

slooowr6
04-15-2013, 10:21 PM
That's a lot of rust. Thanks for reporting back. Wonder how does stock tank get away with rust? Is it made of composite material?

TscotR214
04-15-2013, 10:34 PM
My stock tank "appears" to be made of 100% plastic, like roto-moulded kayaks and such. Sure doesn't seem metallic in any way, not even plastic coated aluminum or anything like that. Scratches like plastic. Didn't dent with a hammer (yeah, I went there. under truck beating on gas tank with a hammer, but I had 'ta know......) Cheap factory skid-mark plate is super thin plastic, worthless for all but keeping some mud off. Maybe.

slooowr6
04-15-2013, 10:57 PM
My stock tank "appears" to be made of 100% plastic, like roto-moulded kayaks and such. Sure doesn't seem metallic in any way, not even plastic coated aluminum or anything like that. Scratches like plastic. Didn't dent with a hammer (yeah, I went there. under truck beating on gas tank with a hammer, but I had 'ta know......) Cheap factory skid-mark plate is super thin plastic, worthless for all but keeping some mud off. Maybe.

Thanks for the confirmation. It's never easy to mod the newer generation trucks, things has gotten so complicated everything is tie to everything. Just thought this tanks solved the emission stuff now comes the rust from ethanol.

Booosted Supra
04-15-2013, 11:40 PM
I am still shocked no one thought of some kind of coating INSIDE the tank, custom gas tanks on motorcycles are coated and like I said above, old metal Jerry/Nato gas cans. That really sucks... are you guys going to figure out something for these CES tanks? Is Shane going to work with you somehow now that your out thousands?

sctracker
04-16-2013, 12:02 AM
Hey guys I was reading through this thread and found something that might help with the baffling in the tanks for those of you who already bought the tank. It may also be a cheaper solution than adding baffling to an already expensive tank. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/miscellaneous/1097875-alltechs-4x4-fuel-cell-baffles.html

TscotR214
04-16-2013, 12:07 AM
My last conversation with Shane CES was that he wanted the old fuel pump to tear apart before we went any further. He did, however, coat the inside of his last fuel tank with some mystery stuff his radiator shop buddies recommended, but that tank, lessee, has probably been driving on the roads for about 6days only, so jury is out on if that will work or not. He actually was in process of coating that tank before I called him from the middle of the desert, so he had recognized the rust issue prior to my breakdown. Shane's advice was to simply replace the faulty fuel pump with a new one and drive on it for a while to see if it happened again. Once I saw the inside of my tank, there was no question I was ever going to drive on that thing again, in that rusted condition, and thus I made the decision to remove it and replace it with a new factory tank like OEM. Cha-ching triple ouch. Shane and I have discussed a stainless tank to replace mine, or maybe coating mine, but until he receives my rusty care package via UPS in a few days, I will withhold judgement until Shane has a chance to respond. He's a good guy, he's stated he will work something out with me. Exactly what that means, well, no clue at the moment.

TscotR214
04-16-2013, 12:18 AM
sctracker, now THAT'S pretty cool! The CES tanks have three front-to-back baffles, but no side-to-side baffles, and probably the baffling wasn't my issue (as originally thought) once I saw the rust damage. You actually couldn't add the baffling material you linked to inside the CES tank as the access is only into one of the three separate cells. Photo enclosed of the inside of the main cell, looking toward back of tank into darkness of second (middle) cell. Triangular cut-outs are where fuel flows from cell to cell. Now if the whole thing were one big tank, those insert thingies you found would be awesome!

Booosted Supra
04-16-2013, 12:31 AM
My last conversation with Shane CES was that he wanted the old fuel pump to tear apart before we went any further. He did, however, coat the inside of his last fuel tank with some mystery stuff his radiator shop buddies recommended, but that tank, lessee, has probably been driving on the roads for about 6days only, so jury is out on if that will work or not. He actually was in process of coating that tank before I called him from the middle of the desert, so he had recognized the rust issue prior to my breakdown. Shane's advice was to simply replace the faulty fuel pump with a new one and drive on it for a while to see if it happened again. Once I saw the inside of my tank, there was no question I was ever going to drive on that thing again, in that rusted condition, and thus I made the decision to remove it and replace it with a new factory tank like OEM. Cha-ching triple ouch. Shane and I have discussed a stainless tank to replace mine, or maybe coating mine, but until he receives my rusty care package via UPS in a few days, I will withhold judgement until Shane has a chance to respond. He's a good guy, he's stated he will work something out with me. Exactly what that means, well, no clue at the moment.

That is good to hear that he is going to work with you and also awesome to hear that he caught onto it prior and is working on making the tank better. I cant think of the name of the coating the motorcycle builders use, I'll have to ask my friends brother who builds custom choppers/tanks/etc. Best of luck I have read this entire thread, I wish I could find something like this for my 2nd gen 4Runner, or even an old Downy Aux tank for sale somewhere unless someone knows who bought the patten for it. I know NWOR has most of Downys pattens but I hear nothing but horror stories about them guys unfortantely

sctracker
04-16-2013, 12:34 AM
Yeah I figured there was probably no way to add in some baffling for those of you who already purchased the tank but for future CES customers this might be the trick. It should help with the fuel going up and down for those of us who like to go through dirt whoops at good speed. I feel kinda bad being the guy who turned you to CES in the first place Scott. Hope it all works out for you!

kmacafee
04-16-2013, 02:34 AM
TscotR214 thanks for your follow-up report. If you're interested in learning more about the Long Ranger tanks being imported into the US check with Outback Proven (http://outbackproven.com/if-558-contact.html) and what is available for your second Gen Tacoma; call Ben Meddows. I know they took delivery of a shipment from Australia earlier this month that included some aux and LR tanks.

Or you can go to Namibia according to the definitive guidance offered by one contributor. I have it on good authority that they are less than $500 installed and they install about ten a month. The obstacle is that the HILUX is not the same as the Tacoma and fitment may be an issue, however, I suspect a competent fabricator could make it work if you're willing to assume the burden of the cost of a HILUX tank that might work and the hourly rate for a fab shop, with experience successfully installing long range or auxiliary tanks, mount it for you.

Like cam-shaft, I recommend a separate transfer tank as well. I run a poly MTS (http://www.mtscompany.com/)tank between the frame rails behind the rear axle which required a good deal of fabrication but provides me 37 gallons of fuel (combined).

I was the contributor who mentioned the tank seen in Namibia. Unlike the tank manufactured in Bend, it was all stainless steel. And I know of two Tacomas in the states that Hilux tanks were installed in with minor modifications. So far (2 years) no rust and no issues. Of course, having helped install one (me) is very different than pontificating about a topic he knows nothing about (TangoBlue).

Ryanmb21
04-16-2013, 02:53 AM
^true.

bobDog
04-16-2013, 03:49 AM
Now mind you I'm just following this and I may not have the complete picture.....but from my experience dealing w/ friends and buddies of friends when it comes to modifications....it always fascinates me how quick some folks jump to blaming the mod. I had a buddy who's clutch failed shortly after a lift, , drive-line mods, larger tires and better shocks. He immediately spent 1000's to restore the truck to stock swearing that the modifications had caused this and he would be changing his clutch every few 1000 miles! After all his friends trucks lasted normal amounts of times.....he had his parts checked and found out his pressure plate and pilot bearing were both at fault from a poor install....to this day I'm sure he catches crap from old buds .
Sometimes it is the mod but most times its just one stupid thing that caused everything else.
I would hope that folks wait to see what really happened.....the vendor seems to be responsible and very into making things right......Rare these days!
Just an opinion from past experience.

steve103
04-16-2013, 04:45 PM
in post #76 i asked the question about coating the inside. but hey who am i to question all this. so no one else is having this issue,or are you people looking at the inside of your tank to at least know if rust is starting. still glad i went with the OZ tank.

TscotR214
04-16-2013, 05:32 PM
Hey Steve, before you install that OZ tank bring it over to my house so we can get side-by-side photos of the OZ tank next to the CES tank for comparison and posting here. I think it would really be valuable for others to see, and after install I'll snap a shot of your stock tank and photoshop it in for a three-tank side-by-side comparison.

Brandon, hey dude! Nice to hear from ya! Glad you girl and dog are still amongst us! I still have faith that the CES SuperTanker, with a few more modifications of course, could prove to be a nice solution for those looking for major extended range. Stock tank is around 20gal, OZ tank is around 30gal, CES tank is around 40gal, so there is still a nice market range going here. Obvious major mess-up with the rust issue. And the inside of my tank shows impact marks from the bottom of the stock fuel pump sump (very outermost white plastic shell) repeatedly impacting the bottom inside of the CES tank. Still have to talk to the TRD guys to see if the springs on the stock fuel pump assy are for suspension (not meant to impact the bottom but free-float in fuel) or compression (meant to press the sump against the bottom of the tank and absorb any impacts or flexing of the tank bottom). In any case, I still thank you for turning me on to CES in the first place, no worries! (dealer gave me the TRD SC for $2k parts, put the rest on VISA, couldn't pass it up).

Chris (tank #1), if you still monitor this thread, chime in here! Your truck was on Shane's rack recently and he was going to yank your tank for inspection in light of the problems I was having, what did he find if anything? You've had this tank longer than any of us, being SuperTanker #1 pioneer trail blazer for all of us to follow, your feedback would be invaluable!

Booosted Supra
04-16-2013, 05:47 PM
Hey Steve, before you install that OZ tank bring it over to my house so we can get side-by-side photos of the OZ tank next to the CES tank for comparison and posting here. I think it would really be valuable for others to see, and after install I'll snap a shot of your stock tank and photoshop it in for a three-tank side-by-side comparison.

Brandon, hey dude! Nice to hear from ya! Glad you girl and dog are still amongst us! I still have faith that the CES SuperTanker, with a few more modifications of course, could prove to be a nice solution for those looking for major extended range. Stock tank is around 20gal, OZ tank is around 30gal, CES tank is around 40gal, so there is still a nice market range going here. Obvious major mess-up with the rust issue. And the inside of my tank shows impact marks from the bottom of the stock fuel pump sump (very outermost white plastic shell) repeatedly impacting the bottom inside of the CES tank. Still have to talk to the TRD guys to see if the springs on the stock fuel pump assy are for suspension (not meant to impact the bottom but free-float in fuel) or compression (meant to press the sump against the bottom of the tank and absorb any impacts or flexing of the tank bottom). In any case, I still thank you for turning me on to CES in the first place, no worries! (dealer gave me the TRD SC for $2k parts, put the rest on VISA, couldn't pass it up).

Chris (tank #1), if you still monitor this thread, chime in here! Your truck was on Shane's rack recently and he was going to yank your tank for inspection in light of the problems I was having, what did he find if anything? You've had this tank longer than any of us, being SuperTanker #1 pioneer trail blazer for all of us to follow, your feedback would be invaluable!

It maybe a major mess up but it is trial and error after all like I said in an earlier post. Its not like this product was product tested and beaten to death like any big name products out there. This was a shot in the dark fabrication and work in progress, you and everyone else are the product testers. Atleast Shane you and everyone involved are kicking feedback back and fourth and working with each other to kick this off. Seems like you are all on the track of something big.

sctracker
04-16-2013, 06:11 PM
Hey Steve, before you install that OZ tank bring it over to my house so we can get side-by-side photos of the OZ tank next to the CES tank for comparison and posting here. I think it would really be valuable for others to see, and after install I'll snap a shot of your stock tank and photoshop it in for a three-tank side-by-side comparison.

Brandon, hey dude! Nice to hear from ya! Glad you girl and dog are still amongst us! I still have faith that the CES SuperTanker, with a few more modifications of course, could prove to be a nice solution for those looking for major extended range. Stock tank is around 20gal, OZ tank is around 30gal, CES tank is around 40gal, so there is still a nice market range going here. Obvious major mess-up with the rust issue. And the inside of my tank shows impact marks from the bottom of the stock fuel pump sump (very outermost white plastic shell) repeatedly impacting the bottom inside of the CES tank. Still have to talk to the TRD guys to see if the springs on the stock fuel pump assy are for suspension (not meant to impact the bottom but free-float in fuel) or compression (meant to press the sump against the bottom of the tank and absorb any impacts or flexing of the tank bottom). In any case, I still thank you for turning me on to CES in the first place, no worries! (dealer gave me the TRD SC for $2k parts, put the rest on VISA, couldn't pass it up).

Chris (tank #1), if you still monitor this thread, chime in here! Your truck was on Shane's rack recently and he was going to yank your tank for inspection in light of the problems I was having, what did he find if anything? You've had this tank longer than any of us, being SuperTanker #1 pioneer trail blazer for all of us to follow, your feedback would be invaluable!

What a deal on the blower! Thats awesome. If you guys are having trouble with the fuel pickup hitting the bottom of the tank you could try mounting a lower profile pickup that hangs out somewhere else in the tank like these guys http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/pickups.html . These also offer the option of having multiple pickups throughout the tank. Other people probably aren't having this problem Scott but they may in the future.

kmacafee
04-16-2013, 06:38 PM
I hate to be a kill joy here and unlike others who have posted on this topic, I don't claim to be an expert on gas tank manufacturing. But I do know quite a bit about vehicle liability and the insurance industry. Those of you that have this tank already installed and those contemplating a purchase of one -- have you really considered the liability you have incurred? Here we have a product produced by a company with no expertise in the field that has never been tested in any way. It is now public knowledge that one of the tanks has failed -- there is no reason to assume the rest of the tanks don't have the same defect. If the tank rusts through and fuel drips on a hot exhaust system, the results would be catastrophic. The fact that the company made the tank out of material that is subject to corrosion, given all the materials available today, should be a wake up call. In the real world, every tank would be recalled and inspected.

I can guarantee that no automotive insurance company on the planet would insure a vehicle if it knew about this modification, especially now with the failure being public. Your state has the right to revoke a vehicle's title if it deems the vehicle to be unsafe and operating on public roads. Go ahead and have the discussion with your insurance company (not your agent) and see what the response is.

We all assume some risk with modifications we make, no question. Even buying and installing a tank from a reputable manufacturer is not without some risk. But in almost 20 years of working with liability and the auto insurance business, this is one of the best examples I have seen of people getting behind an idea without seeing the costs. As Colin Powell famously said: "Experts often possess more data than judgement".

TscotR214
04-16-2013, 07:23 PM
I hate to be a kill joy here and unlike others who have posted on this topic, I don't claim to be an expert on gas tank manufacturing. But I do know quite a bit about vehicle liability and the insurance industry. Those of you that have this tank already installed and those contemplating a purchase of one -- have you really considered the liability you have incurred? Here we have a product produced by a company with no expertise in the field that has never been tested in any way. It is now public knowledge that one of the tanks has failed -- there is no reason to assume the rest of the tanks don't have the same defect. If the tank rusts through and fuel drips on a hot exhaust system, the results would be catastrophic. The fact that the company made the tank out of material that is subject to corrosion, given all the materials available today, should be a wake up call. In the real world, every tank would be recalled and inspected.

I can guarantee that no automotive insurance company on the planet would insure a vehicle if it knew about this modification, especially now with the failure being public. Your state has the right to revoke a vehicle's title if it deems the vehicle to be unsafe and operating on public roads. Go ahead and have the discussion with your insurance company (not your agent) and see what the response is.

We all assume some risk with modifications we make, no question. Even buying and installing a tank from a reputable manufacturer is not without some risk. But in almost 20 years of working with liability and the auto insurance business, this is one of the best examples I have seen of people getting behind an idea without seeing the costs. As Colin Powell famously said: "Experts often possess more data than judgement".


yeah, well, uh..... dick droop for sure on this one. head hanging in shame. yes dad, we may have messed up.... seemed like a great idea at the time? Johnny got one, I thought it was ok if I got one too? But he jumped off the bridge first, I thought it was safe?

While not at all wanting to start a fight here, I do value your input, definitely and positively. My receipt clearly has the standard "off road use only" stamp plastered across all pages, and I knowingly and regularly purchase "off road use only" parts for my vehicle and gleefully drive out the private parking lot on to public California roads every day (my blazing lexan melting headlight bulbs come to immediate mind.....). But yes, there is a clear and definite difference between brighter headlights and dripping fuel tanks, obviously. Thus I immediately and without question yanked that tank, for clear safety concerns. To be fair, this is fully R&D experimentation, and no, that does not give us the right to endanger other drivers on the road with our (unsafe) choices. And to be fair, Shane is not a member of this forum and everything stated here is simply hearsay and customer feedback, and he has been very responsive and concerned to my knowledge and personal experience. For Shane, Oregon fuels and ODOT are different from my experiences here in NorCal and CaDOT, as they are in Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado, where other SuperTankers have found their home. (yes, I kinda adopted the SuperTanker name, who was it... HornyToad that said it first? I dunno, I kinda like the name.)

I personally support innovation whenever and wherever I can, and take full responsibility for knowingly trying "something new". Fact is, DOT won't let any of us carry larger capacity built-in fuel tanks because they don't want the bigger boom. In California, the standard 5gal external fuel can is a thing of the past, we're now limited to 3gal, uh, legally and technically that is. And as for insurance, I keep my insurance agent abreast of any and all modifications I make, just to keep the value of my truck updated (well over $60k so far with purchase and mods), and upon hearing of the CES tank, he simply shook his head and told me to haul the burnt carcass "off-road" somewhere before I called him. Yes, there are costs involved when getting behind an idea, any idea. I feel it comes down to personal responsibility and personal integrity, and I fully stand behind Shane and CES so far, recognizing that we're all learning here, just like most of us on these types of forums, from each other's insight, experience, experimentation, and input.

kmacafee, thank you for your input again, however much of a necessarily negative killjoy it may have been. Your 20 years leads you to have knowledge that others may not have, so your input is a good thing. Thank you. Keep it real, keep it positive, and for goodness sakes, let's not forget we all bomb around in the dirt to have fun. Sometimes we fall down, it is true, but hey, how do you know where your limits are if you don't exceed them once in awhile? Kinda like to exceed them safely enough to drive home, mind you... Just sayin. So far, no one hurt, thankfully, and Shane has been calling the other 9 owners as updates develop, so we're all in this together.

Every farm truck in my local area drives around with a couple hundred gallons of diesel in a big steel drum or welded square tank in the back of their pickups, on and off road, with no issues, and have been doing so for decades (well, close to a century probably). The issue at hand, as I identify it, is the hydrophilic nature of alcohol and our switch to ethanol fuels. It's causing us to change the way we do things, and it's a learning curve. Shane considered manufacturing this tank out of stainless steel, but was concerned that a $3k tank was expensive enough, no one would dream of paying $5k for it (about the cost of a stainless version according to my local welder, yeee-ouchie). And aluminum wouldn't work due to stresses imparted by the mounting configuration. I have yet to lay hands on this aluminized OZ tank, but seeing my OEM tank made of apparent plastic is still giving me cause to pause, as it were.

Keep the dialog coming, keep the input positive, and keep having fun. I have a Toy. If I don't break my Toy once in awhile, I'm not playing hard enough.

Scot

sctracker
04-16-2013, 07:52 PM
I hate to be a kill joy here and unlike others who have posted on this topic, I don't claim to be an expert on gas tank manufacturing. But I do know quite a bit about vehicle liability and the insurance industry. Those of you that have this tank already installed and those contemplating a purchase of one -- have you really considered the liability you have incurred? Here we have a product produced by a company with no expertise in the field that has never been tested in any way. It is now public knowledge that one of the tanks has failed -- there is no reason to assume the rest of the tanks don't have the same defect. If the tank rusts through and fuel drips on a hot exhaust system, the results would be catastrophic. The fact that the company made the tank out of material that is subject to corrosion, given all the materials available today, should be a wake up call. In the real world, every tank would be recalled and inspected.

I can guarantee that no automotive insurance company on the planet would insure a vehicle if it knew about this modification, especially now with the failure being public. Your state has the right to revoke a vehicle's title if it deems the vehicle to be unsafe and operating on public roads. Go ahead and have the discussion with your insurance company (not your agent) and see what the response is.

We all assume some risk with modifications we make, no question. Even buying and installing a tank from a reputable manufacturer is not without some risk. But in almost 20 years of working with liability and the auto insurance business, this is one of the best examples I have seen of people getting behind an idea without seeing the costs. As Colin Powell famously said: "Experts often possess more data than judgement".


I don't think anybody here claimed to be an expert in gas tanks. Also on the many many 4x4s I've worked on with old gas tanks (pre 90's). Almost all of them had some serious amount of rust inside the tank. Its a really common thing because as Scott mentioned before water in your gas tank wasn't such a big deal up until ethanol hit the market. The only reason they go more unaffected is because they sit higher in the tank and are less finiky due to them being an older system. The other thing to keep in mind is that gas tanks with un-pressurized liquid gasoline don't blow up. Ever. Would you get a fire if you're gas tank leaked out onto your exhaust? Maybe. Another thing to keep in mind is that they place all of the exhaust components on the other side of the truck so once again the fuel coming out of an un-pressurized tank wouldn't be a safety issue in that sense. Also if you read here http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.67 there isnt much in there that isn't covered in this tank because it retains ALL of the factory equipment meaning that it still conforms to DOT rules. Nowhere is corrosion resistance a thought because almost all steel tanks will corrode with time.

Now I do agree that the tanks should have either been made out of something with better corrosion resistance or hot coated with something to begin with. For such a high ticket item its a pretty big oversite but the manufacture is working on it.

Scott, the TRD blower kits are notorious for running a little lean, yielding high exhaust gas temperatures. I'm hoping Toyota installed more than just the blower because if your running stock injectors (especially after the potential rust) I would run an pyrometer to monitor this. I ran an autometer one on my last truck and it helped a lot with keeping the engine happy. AFR/boost gauge is also a good idea. Also I talked with my buddy who is quite the hotrod builder about this product here http://www.por15.com/FUEL-TANK-REPAIR-KIT/productinfo/FTRK/ . Apparently it works like a charm. Even removes all the old rust gunk. I have experience with other POR-15 products and I couldn't be any happier. If your interested let me know, you will probably need more than one kit but I can get you some pretty good pricing on it.

kmacafee
04-16-2013, 08:22 PM
I don't think anybody here claimed to be an expert in gas tanks. Also on the many many 4x4s I've worked on with old gas tanks (pre 90's). Almost all of them had some serious amount of rust inside the tank. Its a really common thing because as Scott mentioned before water in your gas tank wasn't such a big deal up until ethanol hit the market. The only reason they go more unaffected is because they sit higher in the tank and are less finiky due to them being an older system. The other thing to keep in mind is that gas tanks with un-pressurized liquid gasoline don't blow up. Ever. Would you get a fire if you're gas tank leaked out onto your exhaust? Maybe. Another thing to keep in mind is that they place all of the exhaust components on the other side of the truck so once again the fuel coming out of an un-pressurized tank wouldn't be a safety issue in that sense. Also if you read here http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.67 there isnt much in there that isn't covered in this tank because it retains ALL of the factory equipment meaning that it still conforms to DOT rules. Nowhere is corrosion resistance a thought because almost all steel tanks will corrode with time.

Now I do agree that the tanks should have either been made out of something with better corrosion resistance or hot coated with something to begin with. For such a high ticket item its a pretty big oversite but the manufacture is working on it.

Scott, the TRD blower kits are notorious for running a little lean, yielding high exhaust gas temperatures. I'm hoping Toyota installed more than just the blower because if your running stock injectors (especially after the potential rust) I would run an pyrometer to monitor this. I ran an autometer one on my last truck and it helped a lot with keeping the engine happy. AFR/boost gauge is also a good idea. Also I talked with my buddy who is quite the hotrod builder about this product here http://www.por15.com/FUEL-TANK-REPAIR-KIT/productinfo/FTRK/ . Apparently it works like a charm. Even removes all the old rust gunk. I have experience with other POR-15 products and I couldn't be any happier. If your interested let me know, you will probably need more than one kit but I can get you some pretty good pricing on it.

I agree with much of what everyone is saying here. I have to disrespectfully disagree with the premise that, since the tank retains all of the factory equipment, it still conforms to DOT specs. The fact of the matter is that the tank itself is not built to DOT standards. Its most likely a grey area but in a court of law, I believe it would be found to not be compliant.

And while many farmers and ranchers routinely carry fuel in whatever container is lying around, the fuel to power the truck comes from the manufacturers installed tank. Were on of those auxiliary tanks to cause a fire or explosion, the insurance company covering the loss would most likely not cover the damage (depending on the state). And of course, diesel fuel is generally far safer to transport than gasoline.

I second the recommendation of the POR 15 product. I used to play with British cars and they all suffered from gas tank corrosion but the POR stuff really works well.

Again, sorry to have to point this all out. As I said before, all mods carry some risk. I love the innovation and creativity it took to get to this point -- hopefully it will have a good outcome.

Cheers

Booosted Supra
04-16-2013, 08:54 PM
I hate to be a kill joy here and unlike others who have posted on this topic, I don't claim to be an expert on gas tank manufacturing. But I do know quite a bit about vehicle liability and the insurance industry. Those of you that have this tank already installed and those contemplating a purchase of one -- have you really considered the liability you have incurred? Here we have a product produced by a company with no expertise in the field that has never been tested in any way. It is now public knowledge that one of the tanks has failed -- there is no reason to assume the rest of the tanks don't have the same defect. If the tank rusts through and fuel drips on a hot exhaust system, the results would be catastrophic. The fact that the company made the tank out of material that is subject to corrosion, given all the materials available today, should be a wake up call. In the real world, every tank would be recalled and inspected.

I can guarantee that no automotive insurance company on the planet would insure a vehicle if it knew about this modification, especially now with the failure being public. Your state has the right to revoke a vehicle's title if it deems the vehicle to be unsafe and operating on public roads. Go ahead and have the discussion with your insurance company (not your agent) and see what the response is.

We all assume some risk with modifications we make, no question. Even buying and installing a tank from a reputable manufacturer is not without some risk. But in almost 20 years of working with liability and the auto insurance business, this is one of the best examples I have seen of people getting behind an idea without seeing the costs. As Colin Powell famously said: "Experts often possess more data than judgement".

All good information yes but not for nothing but this is kind of product testing thing at this point. I am sure Shane probably contacted whomever involved and actions have been taken. All fabricated goods installed on all our expo vehicles did start somewhere whether the plans went into the dumpster and failed or ended up either DOT approved or offroad only approved. So should everyone close up their fab shops because the insurance company has spoken?

Booosted Supra
04-16-2013, 08:55 PM
I don't think anybody here claimed to be an expert in gas tanks. Also on the many many 4x4s I've worked on with old gas tanks (pre 90's). Almost all of them had some serious amount of rust inside the tank. Its a really common thing because as Scott mentioned before water in your gas tank wasn't such a big deal up until ethanol hit the market. The only reason they go more unaffected is because they sit higher in the tank and are less finiky due to them being an older system. The other thing to keep in mind is that gas tanks with un-pressurized liquid gasoline don't blow up. Ever. Would you get a fire if you're gas tank leaked out onto your exhaust? Maybe. Another thing to keep in mind is that they place all of the exhaust components on the other side of the truck so once again the fuel coming out of an un-pressurized tank wouldn't be a safety issue in that sense. Also if you read here http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.67 there isnt much in there that isn't covered in this tank because it retains ALL of the factory equipment meaning that it still conforms to DOT rules. Nowhere is corrosion resistance a thought because almost all steel tanks will corrode with time.

Now I do agree that the tanks should have either been made out of something with better corrosion resistance or hot coated with something to begin with. For such a high ticket item its a pretty big oversite but the manufacture is working on it.

Scott, the TRD blower kits are notorious for running a little lean, yielding high exhaust gas temperatures. I'm hoping Toyota installed more than just the blower because if your running stock injectors (especially after the potential rust) I would run an pyrometer to monitor this. I ran an autometer one on my last truck and it helped a lot with keeping the engine happy. AFR/boost gauge is also a good idea. Also I talked with my buddy who is quite the hotrod builder about this product here http://www.por15.com/FUEL-TANK-REPAIR-KIT/productinfo/FTRK/ . Apparently it works like a charm. Even removes all the old rust gunk. I have experience with other POR-15 products and I couldn't be any happier. If your interested let me know, you will probably need more than one kit but I can get you some pretty good pricing on it.

Pyrometer is a great idea but prob go one step further for the amount of money you just dumped into your rig and go with a wideband set up.

kmacafee
04-16-2013, 10:01 PM
All good information yes but not for nothing but this is kind of product testing thing at this point. I am sure Shane probably contacted whomever involved and actions have been taken. All fabricated goods installed on all our expo vehicles did start somewhere whether the plans went into the dumpster and failed or ended up either DOT approved or offroad only approved. So should everyone close up their fab shops because the insurance company has spoken?

Of course not. But IMHO, it hardly seems prudent to risk everything you have worked for to get extra range from a vehicle. And make no mistake -- a good attorney would have a field day with this case in the event of injury or death. We live in a litigous society -- thats the reality. Its always a risk vs reward equation.

And I have seen nothing posted that would indicate that Shane contacted anyone. I think the fact that 9 have been produced and installed is way past the product testing stage.

cwvandy
04-17-2013, 01:29 AM
Hey Gents, I have been following this thread with great interest. Not only did I build the first tank (or, more correctly, deployed Shane on the project) I live in Bend and have had numerous projects, big and small, done by Shane and his crew.

To start, I want to express how impressed I am with your approach to the issues you have encountered, Scot. Clearly you were dealing with a major bummer (with associated major bummer costs) and your rational and thoughtful approach and willingness to share what you have learned are in the best traditions of this portal. Well done and thank you.

There is a ton of great information and points of view that have been expressed. I guess the one that most reflects how I feel about this process is that everyone who bought one of these tanks was part of an ongoing R&D process. I may have built the first one, but anyone who has done a modification this significant and this unproven knows (or should know) that it will be a learning experience. I feel for Scot as he learned, the hard way, about what appears to be a rust issue (will be interesting to hear the verdict on the fuel pump once Shane does the mechanical autopsy). Pictures don’t lie and clearly there was rust. There have been a number of hiccups, although none this significant, which through trial and error have been addressed. You nailed it again, Scot: this is a process of innovation. I have confidence that Shane is going to address this issue. In my conversations with him he is already exploring possibilities for a fix. I intend to do a pre-emptive fix as soon as he has this figured out (for what it is worth, early during the build of my tank, it was pointed out by one Portal member that an internal coating might eventually be required to prevent rust---guess we shoulda’ listened).

I have also been interested, and at times amused, by the discussion of potential liability. It is hard to know whether any of the experts in this discussion are lawyers, but I am. Simply having a custom tank that is not certified does not, itself, create liability if there is a problem. At the same time, you probably could NOT put this tank into mass production and sell it, particularly in Calif. without getting the necessary certifications and licenses. Producing a one-off, for off road only tank is another thing altogether, however. The question for all of us that purchased tanks is whether we used reasonable care in the tanks construction, maintenance and use. I have checked off the construction box. Ditto use. And I am now going to address the rust issue. I feel that I have used all available information to make this tank as safe as a gasoline carrying metal box can be. And frankly, this seems a lot safer than having 5 or 10 gallons hanging off on back of my rig in harms way and vulnerable in any sort of rear end collision. Anyway, I appreciate the concern and warnings, but legally I think they are overstated.

As an aside, my insurance company knows about the tank and insures my car—and the tank. In fact, I had a recent run-in with a deer (on coming car going 50mph launched it through my front windshield when I was going 50 for a net 100mph collision. Biggest remaining part of deer was football size. Pieces traveled through the windshield, through the rear seat, through the body of the truck, through the cap roof and into the bed. Bones were stuck in most surfaces of the interior. Piece of something hit me in the face which is a another story altogether). The insurance company wanted to total the truck, but when they saw the cost of replacing all I had put on it, including the tank, they repaired it—better than new. No issues whatsoever with the tank. Moreover they added it to the list of now-insured aftermarket parts (front/ rear bumpers, suspension, winch, bed cap, etc) and my insurance, post accident, increased $25 per year.

Finally, I have not had any problems with the tank, aka Super-Tanker. Early on there were some warning light issues that Shane addressed and fixed. I was recently in Shane’s shop getting 4:54 gears put in and he did an inspection of the tank. After thousands of hard off road miles, no issues. No movement of the tank, nothing loose, no chafing, no problems at all. We did not inspect the inside for rust---waiting to see what Scot’s fuel pump shows, but that is probably next.

The tank has been one of the best modifications I have added. If your truck is a daily driver, don’t bother. But if you do serious off road travel increased range is a big deal, at least to me. In the end the process of whether to modify our rigs, and to what extent, is a personal choice. As someone noted, they all involve risk. Personally I haven’t found a risk-free way to travel off road, but again, like mods, we all make personal choices about risk. I would do this mod again in a heartbeat.

Finally, and many have also pointed this out, none of us could do any better than to have a project like this done by Shane. He is a pro. He is a perfectionist. And he stands behind his work. There are a ton of reasons not to add a tank like this. If, like me, you think the benefits outweigh the risks, see Shane.

Booosted Supra
04-17-2013, 02:00 AM
well said, I am interested in what your tank looks like though being it is the first and longest one out there, regardless of what the verdict is of the old fuel pump

TangoBlue
04-17-2013, 03:07 AM
I was the contributor who mentioned the tank seen in Namibia. Unlike the tank manufactured in Bend, it was all stainless steel. And I know of two Tacomas in the states that Hilux tanks were installed in with minor modifications. So far (2 years) no rust and no issues. Of course, having helped install one (me) is very different than pontificating about a topic he knows nothing about (TangoBlue).

TscotR214,you are a very understanding consumer; not everyone has your perspective and patience for a custom modification of this sort. I hope your vendor appreciates the partner he has in a customer who has proven so willing to assist in developing a superior product. Your reports have made us all a little bit smarter on the quest for extended travel range. Both you and cwvandy have shown an amazing level of integrity and optimism for the capacity of your trucks platform.

I sincerely apologize in advance for polluting your thread but indulge me this instance, please.

kmacafee...

Yes Kevin, you were the contributor who saw some tanks for sale in Namibia, priced within their local economy at $500USD, installed. You also know of two individuals who have installed HILUX LR tanks on their Tacoma's, one of which you helped install, and assert that it was easy. I believe you.

Since then you have continuously sniped at me and two other forum members who have called you out on your empty assertions. I believe you when you say you went to Namibia - I bet you even saw the tank installed - I might have done the same if I traveled to Africa and bought an adventure driving vacation. But just as you spoiled a previous thread on organizing a group buy of this product earlier, my beef with you is that these statements don't assist the OP and his predicament. What was the manufacturer of the tank and the importer that you observed in Namibia? You have never provided that information but insinuated in your comments that the folks sourcing this tank produced in Oregon were knuckleheads for spending their money when all they had to do was import this tank you saw readily available on the African continent (which is not DOT approved). Oh, and that they are dangerously irresponsible knuckleheads no less for purchasing a non-DOT approved tank.

I believe that you are telling the truth when you say that you have two friends and that they own Tacoma's who've installed this imported HILUX tank; but what have you done to elucidate us on that subject? Nothing. No pictures, no statements from them, no write-ups on their experience or modifications required to adapt them from the HILUX to the Tacoma platform, or even where they sourced the tanks from. Perhaps you noted through your rage at my post that I provided the US importer and their contact information. I believe I also mentioned that the container arrived in early April with some auxiliary and long range tanks from Long Ranger, the Aussie company that produces aftermarket aluminized steel tanks, in the event the OP wanted to investigate that option.

Granted I don't have your experience on the subject, you having seen one installed in Namibia and a couple of US friends that put them in, one of which you helped with. I only work at an off-road fabrication shop that restores Land Cruisers, builds expedition vehicles, desert race trucks, rock crawlers, and a few specialized US and overseas government projects. Some of these have auxiliary and LR tanks (that I've helped with). Well then, there's also my Tacoma with it's auxiliary fuel tank and its total 37 gallon capacity; but what would I know.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp22/TangoBlue/tank.jpg (http://s394.photobucket.com/user/TangoBlue/media/tank.jpg.html)

I didn't mean to steal your thunder Kevin and "pontificate about a subject he knows nothing about."

Please go on Mr. Macafee, based on your 20 year experience in the insurance industry (what did you do in that line of work) or as a bicycle shop owner, please continue to grace us with your wisdom.

Also, avoid sending me agitated PMs like you did to another member who challenged your expertise on this forum.

sctracker
04-17-2013, 09:34 PM
^ What he said.

RangeBrover
04-17-2013, 11:02 PM
Mods on our rigs are always learning experiences, someone has to take the first step in the development process for anything to happen. Guys like TscotR214 who make the initial plunge are the reason we have such good sources of information down the road. Thanks for taking the time to document all of this for future people who might be considering the same thing down the road.

Booosted Supra
04-18-2013, 02:28 AM
Mods on our rigs are always learning experiences, someone has to take the first step in the development process for anything to happen. Guys like TscotR214 who make the initial plunge are the reason we have such good sources of information down the road. Thanks for taking the time to document all of this for future people who might be considering the same thing down the road.

Agreed, basically what I said, time to close up the fab shops guys! haha

huntsonora
04-18-2013, 06:19 AM
After the rust issues a guy might be better off buying a CBI bumper with dual swing outs for a tire and 2 scepter gas cans. Bud built made a container that goes where the spare used to go that holds rotopax fuel containers and this way you can still carry 35 gallons of gas and utilize the stock tank. I know it may not be as cool or as convenient but it'l damn sure work
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/134944-cool-product-those-who-have-re-located-their-spare-tire-budbuilt.html

Looks like it holds 3 4 gallon rotopax containers. 12 gallons there and a 21 gallon tank and you're close to what the aftermarket tank will give you distance wise

hornytoad
04-18-2013, 03:36 PM
cwvandy - I like your thoughts on parts liability, and the tank of course. My insurance company had no problems with me having a custom fuel tank they just were not easily able to insure it. Since my taco is a commercial vehicle and I have an inland marine policy for my field equipment, we are just going to insure it as a permanently mounted piece of field equipment. State laws and insurance companies may have differences. Check your policies. (we had a huge fight over replacing the destroyed tank)

As owner of tank #10 (who then lost it 2 months after Shane installed it) I will be adding one of these again. The highway speed head on collision and roll did not rupture the tank or pull anything from the fuel system loose. Once we have the coated/uncoated/material issues a little more worked out I will give CES my business again. Gas can can be a lifesaver and having the 30-40 gallons of fuel in a stock location frees up the hassle of having to store fuel cans and keep fuel away from water or soil samples.

If you have bumpers than the Budbuilt gas can storage idea or an auxiliary tank looks awesome, for those of us that use the spare tire well and don't have bumpers than the supertanker works great.

For me the huge cost factor of going to Bend from Albuquerque has been taken out of the equation now that CES will ship the tanks. As we all contribute to this mod it gets easier and cheaper for everyone who comes along afterwards.

Kudos to cwvandy and to TscotR214 for sharing their fortunes and misfortunes with this mod. I hope that this rust problem gets figured out ASAP.

huntsonora
04-18-2013, 04:20 PM
If you have bumpers than the Budbuilt gas can storage idea or an auxiliary tank looks awesome, for those of us that use the spare tire well and don't have bumpers than the supertanker works great.


What is the cost of the "supertanker" compared to the CBI bumper.

Never mind, found this...



My experience with CES is $1,800 for a tank with powder coating plus a 3-4 day installation charge with whatever accessories are needed (aprox $700-1,000 more). The installation might seem expensive but it it is how CES makes sure that everything works.


CBI bumper with dual swing outs and powder coat is under $1600 and that plate for holding three 4 gallon RotoPax containers from Bud Built can't be that expensive.

I love the idea behind the 35 gallon tank but I think there are other options that give you more bang for your buck and that allow you to carry the came capacity of gas for your truck. Just another option if a guy wants to keep the stock tank.

Can't put a price on piece of mind. There are ranches I lease in Mexico where I'm 4-5 hours to the nearest city and that's a small city and if I break down out there I'm screwed. Given whats happened so far I can utilize Toyota technology and parts and still have the same range. It's a no brainer for me but some folks might like the cool factor of a bigger tank. Whatever works for each individual I guess.

hornytoad
04-18-2013, 10:00 PM
huntsonora - That's the old price and it was more like 3k out the door, plus you have to be in Bend OR for the instal. CES now has a shippable option that greatly reduces the cost. (Aprox 2,500 plus shipping on a pallet). The hardware is still expensive and yes it's bling, but 42 gallons is hard to wrap your brain around until you see it in your gas gauge. Your gas gauge doubles almost perfectly to a 500-600 mile range.

If the Long Ranger tank becomes popular I can see a lot of folks on here going that route. 30 gallons and apox 1300 price tag (wild *** guess) would be a great bang for the buck option, once someone starts shipping them into the states by the container load instead of custom DSL/Fedex pieces.

Ideally I will have a big tank and one of the 2-3 gallon rotopax cans.

TscotR214
04-30-2013, 06:33 PM
Update on post-mortem of my fuel pump in CES tank: kind of a no-brainer given the internal inspection and my posted photos, but issue was indeed confirmed by Shane to be simple rust. Pump itself is fine, but filter is completely stuffed with rust. Allowed truck to start and idle, but any demand beyond idle simply couldn't get enough fuel flow to keep the engine running, typical clogged fuel filter most familiar to anyone spending time in Baja. Thinking back, the CES tank worked flawlessly for months and months, and just happened to take a dump on me in the middle of the desert a full day's drive from home, bad luck on my part. Probably due to my more extreme high-speed desert driving, me giving the inside of the fuel tank a most thorough sloshing, loosening any and all rust straight into the fuel pump filter. Bad design on Toyota's part, having that internal fuel filter beyond visual inspection or trail-side change out. Will probably highly consider internal fuel pump with external fuel filter modification with next tank swap. Even if fuel pump chews rust and dies, at least evidence is visible in external fuel filter and known parts can be brought in for trail-side mechanicals, be it rust, dead flies, sand, water, or whatever sneaks inside our tanks.

Update on the CES Supertankers, Shane now reports all new units get an internal coating to prevent this rust issue. Live and learn. California will probably be the only state with an issue, given our watery fuels, but good to know for any future CES customers, a great CES Supertanker product is now New and Improved, now with burly powder coat outside, epoxy sealing inside. Shane is also making a stainless version, which should be ready for me in a month or two, figured I might as well stay on the guinea pig train and try it out. Mine will have a bottom drain access plug so I can on occasion drain the tank slightly, looking for rust, water, popcorn, etc. as the tank goes through trials. With the internal coating version, I really don't see much more of an issue with this design for those who like the idea of 42 on-board gallons slung down low. I personally don't trust coatings, so I'm opting to try a stainless prototype for myself, but several local fuel distributor folks I've spoken to all report that various commonly applied epoxy coatings should last the life of the tank with no issues.

Side note: Shane is most definitely standing behind his product, and I continue to have confidence and patience in getting this design worked out.

TangoBlue
05-01-2013, 03:29 AM
Thanks for the update and the good news. Kudos to the fabricator. It's great to see American craftsmanship and innovation in action.

hornytoad
05-01-2013, 02:27 PM
TscotR214 - Thanks for the update! Glad to know that Shane has found a fix for the rust issues and that he is standing behind his products! Guess I will be ordering another tank after all....

steve103
05-03-2013, 03:00 AM
yea. glad to hear the news. stainless sounds like the go.

cwvandy
07-17-2013, 12:50 AM
Before I begin my latest update, a continual hats-off to TscotR214 for his patience, great attitude and willingness to share his experiences. I know I, for one, learned a ton from his posts.

Because of the rust diagnosis, I decided to have my tank pulled, cleaned and coated. Shane, always in customer service mode, pulled the new tank, reinstalled my old tank and sent the tank off to be professionally cleaned and the inside coated with an industry standard, rust preventative material. We put the old tank back on so I would have the truck while the coating was done. Shane picked up the tab for removal of the new tank, putting my old one back on the truck and reinstalling the new tank once coated. I dropped the truck off at 9:30 and had it back by lunch. Coating takes a couple of days and will cost about $200. Anyone thinking about this upgrade should hang onto their old tank and brackets. The swap is easy if you have the parts.

It is interesting to note that when the new tank was pulled off, there was absolutely no rust. Not one spec. Nothing on any of the walls of the tank, nothing in the filter or fuel pump. Clean as the proverbial whistle. I know this is a very different situation than TscotR214's and must be attributable to the difference in water content in CA vs Oregon. Anyway, I am glad to do this simply as a smart preventative step, but also to make sure that any future owner can have peace of mind if they drive in high-water content gas areas. Shane can do the swap in a couple of hours and the coating provides a good guarantee that TscotR214's experience...curse....isn't shared by others.

Other than this preventative maintenance, the tank has functioned absolutely perfectly. Not one single issue and many miles of fuel security!

TscotR214
11-19-2014, 10:38 AM
To beat a dead horse on an old thread, and in response to several PM inquiries, I need to update my CES experience. The CES tank hangs from straps and evidently can freely move, enough to get hung up on the rear axle and drive shaft. Tank punctured on trip in desert, spent two days trailside draining, drying, epoxy plug. Trying to continue trip, tank continued to hang on driveshaft. Inspection revealed issue from day one. I thought metal on metal grinding noise was undercarriage on rocks, was instead driveshaft grinding against tank and axle against tank. Intalled nylon straps to pull tank away from rear drive components and limped home spilling fuel entire way. Unbolted that thing and threw it in the dump scrap metal bin immediately. Well over 10k spent, happily in trash, thrilled to be rid of cursed CES tank. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

I now run the Outback Proven tank. While only 33gal, it does bolt directly to the frame in seven locations, never to swing and hang on any moving suspension part (axle, drive shaft, leaf springs, etc) and rupture as my CES tank did. Also, Proven tank is completely aluminized, no bare steel to rust. Maybe my CES tank was a tad too long, maybe my straps were a tad too long, maybe my Tacoma was built a quarter inch shorter than everybody else's, who knows. I'm just soooo happy to be rid of the thing.

I'm fairly certain that no one else has had similar issues, so this is solely my unique experience. Plenty of other folks have this tank and love it, and Shane is great to deal with. With my Tacoma, when I'm cross suspended (front axle twists driver side, rear axle twists passenger side, for example), my doors cannot open and are jammed shut due to the amount of torsional frame twist, while my suspension keeps all four tires nicely planted on the ground in all four corners. Must not spill beer, but also must not puncture gas tank.

If you stick to mild well graded dirt roads, CES works great. If you get into expedition travel and have the slightest horizontal suspension articulation, you may have issues.

skygear
11-19-2014, 10:42 AM
To beat a dead horse on an old thread, and in response to several PM inquiries, I need to update my CES experience. The CES tank hangs from straps and evidently can freely move, enough to get hung up on the rear axle and drive shaft. Tank punctured on trip in desert, spent two days trailside draining, drying, epoxy plug. Trying to continue trip, tank continued to hang on driveshaft. Inspection revealed issue from day one. I thought metal on metal grinding noise was undercarriage on rocks, was instead driveshaft grinding against tank and axle against tank. Intalled nylon straps to pull tank away from rear drive components and limped home spilling fuel entire way. Unbolted that thing and threw it in the dump scrap metal bin immediately. Well over 10k spent, happily in trash, thrilled to be rid of cursed CES tank. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

I now run the Outback Proven tank. While only 33gal, it does bolt directly to the frame in seven locations, never to swing and hang on any moving suspension part (axle, drive shaft, leaf springs, etc) and rupture as my CES tank did. Also, Proven tank is completely aluminized, no bare steel to rust. Maybe my CES tank was a tad too long, maybe my straps were a tad too long, maybe my Tacoma was built a quarter inch shorter than everybody else's, who knows. I'm just soooo happy to be rid of the thing.

I'm fairly certain that no one else has had similar issues, so this is solely my unique experience. Plenty of other folks have this tank and love it, and Shane is great to deal with. With my Tacoma, when I'm cross suspended (front axle twists driver side, rear axle twists passenger side, for example), my doors cannot open and are jammed shut due to the amount of torsional frame twist, while my suspension keeps all four tires nicely planted on the ground in all four corners. Must not spill beer, but also must not puncture gas tank.

If you stick to mild well graded dirt roads, CES works great. If you get into expedition travel and have the slightest horizontal suspension articulation, you may have issues.
Link to me tank? Price point?

TscotR214
11-19-2014, 10:54 AM
Google for links and phone numbers, Custom Exhaust Specialties Bend Oregon, talk to Shane, and Outback Proven Las Vegas Nevada, talk to Ben. Shane hand builds in his own (really nice) shop, while Ben imports from Long Range Automotive in Australia.

Proven tank is less expensive, mass produced, but also only half the additional fuel, 42gal vs 33gal. Depends on your needs. Oh, also need to add that CES tank had 38gal usable (my engine dies at 4gal remaining), while Proven tank has 30gal usable (engine dies at 3gal remaining), so CES gives 8 more gallons essentially. Also, venting on CES tank is way superior, I changed my Proven vent hoses to match my CES install, thanks to Shane and Chris for pioneering the vent issues. And sealing a fuel tank with a static compression o-ring is just a bad idea, I used cork gaskets and plenty of aviation gasket sealer on my Proven tank (again thanks to Shane). And don't use the Proven clear plastic hose, replace with standard black fuel hose and tighten the crap out of hose clamp at charcoal canister end with loop up to fuel cap and back. PM w questions best.

skygear
11-19-2014, 10:55 AM
Tanks! ;)

slooowr6
11-19-2014, 05:37 PM
Google for links and phone numbers, Custom Exhaust Specialties Bend Oregon, talk to Shane, and Outback Proven Las Vegas Nevada, talk to Ben. Shane hand builds in his own (really nice) shop, while Ben imports from Long Range Automotive in Australia.

Proven tank is less expensive, mass produced, but also only half the additional fuel, 42gal vs 33gal. Depends on your needs. Oh, also need to add that CES tank had 38gal usable (my engine dies at 4gal remaining), while Proven tank has 30gal usable (engine dies at 3gal remaining), so CES gives 8 more gallons essentially. Also, venting on CES tank is way superior, I changed my Proven vent hoses to match my CES install, thanks to Shane and Chris for pioneering the vent issues. And sealing a fuel tank with a static compression o-ring is just a bad idea, I used cork gaskets and plenty of aviation gasket sealer on my Proven tank (again thanks to Shane). And don't use the Proven clear plastic hose, replace with standard black fuel hose and tighten the crap out of hose clamp at charcoal canister end with loop up to fuel cap and back. PM w questions best.

Thanks for the detail first hand experience update!! The 2nd gen Tacoma has a complicated emission check setup on the gas tank, for us in California a check engine light can be a lot of hassle at smog check time. So I would take the Outback Proven tank is not a plug and play with some enhancement? (Replace gasket, fuel line etc)

TscotR214
11-19-2014, 06:46 PM
Thanks for the detail first hand experience update!! The 2nd gen Tacoma has a complicated emission check setup on the gas tank, for us in California a check engine light can be a lot of hassle at smog check time. So I would take the Outback Proven tank is not a plug and play with some enhancement? (Replace gasket, fuel line etc)

Good inquiry.

Both tanks, the CES and the Proven, have solved any emission engine light issues. Both are quite vacuum tight. The CES tank uses a cork gasket under compression to seal the fuel pump assy into place (I had to add aviation gasket sealer to ensure no CEL issues). The Proven tank uses a THICKER THAN OEM o-ring under compression to seal the fuel assy into place (I used my old, thinner OEM o-ring at first and immediately got CEL failures at first pressurization attempt, at which time I tried the Proven-supplied thicker o-ring with no problems, then said screw it and made my own super thick cork gasket with tons of aviation gasket sealer, over-kill OCD but I know it will work). Remember the space shuttle explosion? O-rings under static compression are a bad idea, they are designed for dynamic pressurization and constant lubrication in order to deform and seal correctly under changing pressures. Just my opinion, cork works better. Either tank, with supplied sealants out of the box, will seal the fuel pump assembly just fine. Enhance with aviation gasket sealer and / or cork gasket if OCD.

Both tanks have adequate vent tubing straight from the box, they've done their homework here also. CES has difficult to install, but awesome venting, far superior to Proven tank. CES has vents in uppermost extents of highest points (3) on tank, while Proven has single vent (1) somewhat below highest point on tank. Yeah, so why doesn't incoming gas trap air at that highest point in Proven tank? I took my Proven tank apart to look at it from the inside, and noticed that fuel actually pumps in, swirls down, and upwells into that highest point. Problem solved, clever those Aussies. That said, with Proven tank, I flooded my charcoal canister with first fill-up at the gas pump. CES runs their vent hose from tank (3 points into one hose), up inside driver rear tire well to fuel cap filler neck at highest point, back down, over inboard direction, and up to charcoal canister located above rear differential. Proven runs their vent hose in a specially molded clear plastic vent hose directly from their single vent point, directly about 10" to charcoal canister, just ever so slightly upward (elevation change about, oh, 2" maximum). Easy for fuel on Proven tank to flow into charcoal canister. My modification was to run standard fuel hose from single vent point on Proven tank, looped up to fuel cap filler neck area like CES, down, over, and up to charcoal canister. Problem solved, and does not trip fuel filler nozzle during fillup before tank is full (Ben will provide a unicoil spring to prevent his vent hose from kinking, did not work for me on two separate Tacoma installs, but fuel vent line following CES works fantastic). On Proven tank, vent connection is different size from charcoal canister connection, that's why they need their provided special molded clear plastic tubing. I went with larger size standard fuel line that fits over tank vent side, which then fits loose over charcoal vent fitting, but simply compressing fuel line with hose clamp provided dynamite vacuum tight seal.

Both tanks are plug and play, and both suppliers provide everything you need. I suggest these mods. For the CES: use aviation gasket sealer everywhere, gaskets, hoses, everywhere; it's like black rubber cement, made specifically for the purpose, and watch your clearances. For the Proven: use their thicker o-ring with aviation sealer, or, make your own cork gasket; and replace 10" clear vent tubing with 96" standard fuel line looped up to filler neck (you don't need that much, I used about 6ft).

If I were the manufacturer: CES, I would make the tank smaller front to back by about 2" on the rear end, and side to side take off about 1" on each side, to provide greater suspension clearance on some installations. Proven, I would modify their compression plate to use a cork compression gasket for the fuel pump, and provide 8ft of vent hose to run the filler neck loop route.

slooowr6
11-19-2014, 07:07 PM
TscotR214,
This info is priceless!
It's very rare to have such detail 1st hand experience with the in depth understanding on how the modification should work. Kudo, :ylsmoke:
I like the idea of aluminum tank which should be lighter and naturally resist the rust. I feel the change to the vent for Proven is a must for the reliability and usability of the tank. Is it ok to share the price on Proven's tank?

Thanks again for the great info,

TscotR214
11-19-2014, 07:58 PM
TscotR214,
This info is priceless!
It's very rare to have such detail 1st hand experience with the in depth understanding on how the modification should work. Kudo, :ylsmoke:
I like the idea of aluminum tank which should be lighter and naturally resist the rust. I feel the change to the vent for Proven is a must for the reliability and usability of the tank. Is it ok to share the price on Proven's tank?

Thanks again for the great info,

Both tanks are steel construction. CES is steel tank, featuring internal "radiator type" coating to prevent rust, and external powder coating paint. Proven tank is also steel, featuring aluminized coating inside and out (similar to galvanized steel coatings which typically use zinc, aluminized is similar process using aluminum instead of zinc to coat steel). Proven tank comes with small magnet that you stick inside tank right next to fuel intake, just in case small bits of metal do float around somehow.

I don't wish to hijack this thread for either a CES or a Proven promo, so prefer that you contact each supplier for pricing. Both suppliers provide quality products for varying needs.

slooowr6
11-19-2014, 08:01 PM
Got it. Both tanks are interesting and looks good. It's great the finally there are choices of long rang tank for 2nd gen Tacoma.