Which SLR to get

[Ursidae69]

So, I'm planning on upgrading to a digital SLR this year. I have a big Brazil trip in June and I would like to have a better camera for that trip. I'm looking to spend up to ~1k, so I am looking at either the Canon 20D or the Canon Rebel XT. There are several members here that are very camera savy and maybe you can help point me to the best choice.

Here is a good comparison of the two. ***LINK*** (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos20d%2Ccanon_eos350d&show=all)

So the question in my kind really is: How much will I use the faster shutter speed, higher ISO, faster fps, and with a few more focal points with the 20D to justify the larger price?

I don't know enough about cameras to answer that question right now.

The XT is cheaper, lighter and will fit my needs now, but as I get more advanced in my photography, how much will I start needing the higher options of the 20D? I don't want to upgrade camera again for many years after this purchase.

Thanks for any insight.

[jeffryscott]

Chuck,

If you don't want to upgrade for many years, be aware that with digital cameras you are basically buying a computer. New models will be coming out every 1 to 3 years, depends on the target audience for the camera. Pro models have a lifespan of maybe 3 years, max. Consumer cameras are on one year cycles. (of course, times are approximate, but fairly accurate).

Between the two, the 20d will be vastly superior over the long haul (build quality, general usefulness, camera controls) - and the high ISO is absolutely fabulous.

I'd recommend two lenses to go with the camera: the 17-40 4L and the 70-200 4L. The two lenses together are about $1,200 and are optically fantastic and are Canon's high end L glass.

Be aware the EFS lenses that come in the kits will only work on the XT and 20d - as CMOS sensors get cheaper and bigger, it is hard to say whether the EFS will be supported. I.E. the EOS 5d, a full frame camera for $3,000.

Good luck with the choice, the Canon's make a good product.

As an aside, you may want to look at the Olympus E1. I had one for nearly two years and loved it. Only reason I sold it was work went all Canon and I wanted access to the big lenses.

The E1 has beautiful color (film like quality) out of the box, two lenses, the 14-54 2.8/3.5 and 50-200 2.8/3.5 give you 35mm range of 28 to 400. The camera body is all metal, seal against dust and the elements and has a nifty feature on the sensor that shakes off dust (no annoying dust marks on pictures in the whole time I owned it, on my Canon's dust gets on the CCD routinely and is a pain).

The downside, somewhat, is the "noise" at high ISO is worse than the Canon - but looks a lot like film so I never was bothered by it and used it at 1600 all the time.

I really liked the E1 and if I was wealthy, I'd have stuck with it because Olympus makes some killer lenses for the system - but too expensive for me.

Good luck,

Jeff

[Life_in_4Lo]

Nikon D50 and D70s are real bargains and I like both better than the Rebel XT

You can go up the Nikon food chain from there but the Nikon stuff is really good, the D50 is alot better than my Rebel Digital, I like the body shape better than the XT and the features/pic quality is better, imo.

Take a look at the Nikon stuff too.

[DaktariEd]

I've had Canon's for more than 20 years. Terrific optics and always reliable (almost...except after dunking in a river once). :eek:

Having amassed a great lens system I wanted to get a digital body that would take my EF lenses, so I got the D60. Probably not made any more as Jeff said...but the 20D would be a great choice, IMO.
:D
Ed

[Scott Brady]

Spend the money you have on glass before the body. Optics and composition/lighting are the most important IMO (well, negative/image size does help a bit too).

Just look at the pictures Chris takes, all with a point and shoot and a high quality 2.8 lens. His images kick *** because of the composition and lighting. The attributes of a great image that cannot be purchased, despite the price.

[Ursidae69]

Thanks for all the comments and I will be looking at Nikons too now. :ylsmoke:

Scott, no question that operator skill is the biggest component of a good picture. I just feel like I ahve maxed out my capabilities with the Fujifilm S3100 (4megapixel) I am using now. It is great and all, but I want more. I want more megapixels and I want better quality.

I have aspirations to publish stuff someday and I want to get more into wildlife photography. I often find myself in remote places and I can't tell you how many times I've missed cool shots of some critter doing something because of the huge lag in startup time or the lag between frames. The <1 second startup and fast fps are two of the main reasons I'm looking into SLRs to be honest.

Thanks again for all the feedback from everyone. :luxhello:

[Scott Brady]

With aspirations to publish, save your pennies and buy the 5, full frame unit. It will be worth every penny IMO. 12mp provides better than 35mm quality.

[Ursidae69]

With aspirations to publish, save your pennies and buy the 5, full frame unit. It will be worth every penny IMO. 12mp provides better than 35mm quality.

That's a lot of pennies... :(

[BajaTaco]

Chuck, I will follow this thread too, as I am also interested in getting a digital SLR, mainly for the higher quality optics/resolution options that are available.

Thanks for the comment Scott :D one good thing to be said for the small pocket type cameras is exactly what Chuck just inadvertantly mentioned - speed (which is often a result of convenience). Granted I miss some farther animal shots due to the lack of zoom/resolution on a larger lens, but to be able to quickly pull the camera out, turn it on and shoot a picture with one hand, "on the fly" is really a great attribute based on the sake of convenience. I have a little holster that hangs right next to my leg, off of the shifter console in the truck, and am able to grab my camera pretty much like a gun out of a holster - which is really cool. And it's just as easy to put it away. When I go to a larger camera body, I will still keep my little camera for hikes and my "quick draw" holster, when I just don't want to mess with the bulk of an SLR and extra lenses.

When Scott and I were talking to Nathan last week - he brought up an excellent idea. Get a camera body that can use the same lenses as your traveling companions/local buddies, and you can have a larger pool of lenses to share. Scott doesn't know it yet, but I might be keeping this in mind when I buy my camera body :hehe: I think some ultra wide lenses and macro would be fun. :ylsmoke:

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, but prices will continue to fall as you are saving. If I was buying a new camera with the intention of selling the images, I would not even consider anything less than full frame.

With my truck basically finished, I am going to be funneling most of my EW earnings into lenses.

I am happy with the performance of the 20D, but the 23mm CMOS is a real issue. It makes it difficult to get landscape without all new lenses (and the distortion that comes with ultra-wide angle) and hand holding requires extra caution too due to the magnification factor. The old rule used to be shutter speed in excess of focal length to eliminate shake. Now, you need to multiply the shutter speed by 1.6 too to ensure good clarity.

[Ursidae69]

Well, lots of think about. I don't intend to publish anytime soon, but I can foresee me doing some sort of wildlife photography as a side job someday, books, freelance stuff, I dunno.

In the meantime, I can get a Rebel XT fairly cheap for the amount of camera I'd be getting and like Chris said, I can share lenses with folks. In my upcoming trip, at least 3 of us will have Canon SLRs. This will give me a few years to save for a 5D while the prices down at the same time.

[Scott Brady]

When Scott and I were talking to Nathan last week - he brought up an excellent idea. Get a camera body that can use the same lenses as your traveling companions/local buddies, and you can have a larger pool of lenses to share. Scott doesn't know it yet, but I might be keeping this in mind when I buy my camera body :hehe: I think some ultra wide lenses and macro would be fun. :ylsmoke:

Yeah, good point Chris. Stephanie and I did that for years when we both had Canon 35mm bodies. Especially if one of the team prefers a different style than the other, it should be very complimentary. I do need a wide angle and a macro/portrait lens, which will be my next purchase.

Right now, I have 44.8-1280mm 35mm equivalent covered. It is the 44.8 that is killing me though. I really need a 16mm equivalent or so.

[Scott Brady]

Good plan Chuck. Most magazines are happy with 6.3 MP. Fine art mags and AZ Highways, etc. are just now accepting digital, but only the full frame images.

[OutbacKamper]

Spend the money you have on glass before the body.
I agree: buy the cheaper camera body (Canon XT Rebel) and spend the money on the lenses. The price of digital slr's is dropping, but the lens prices usually stay fairly constant. So learn on the cheaper camera and only replace it when your skills demand a more advanced camera. By then the equivelent of a 5D should be available at the current 20D price. I also agree that you should avoid the EF-s lenses as they will soon be obsolite (sp?). If possible ($) buy EF-L series lenses, the difference in quality is significant. I would also highly recommend the canon image stabilization feature, it really works.
Good luck with what ever you decide.
Mark

ps: I would recommend EF 16-35 F2.8L USM (77mm)- or- EF 17-40 F4L USM (77mm)
and EF 70-200 F2.8L USM (77mm)-or- EF 70-300 F4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (58mm)
Also circular polarizer filter(s) - size shown in brackets

[bigreen505]

I recommend you buy the cheapest camera that has the features you want and an interface/ergonomics that feel comfortable to you. The Nikon D70s, Canon XT and 20D are all capable cameras (as are the D60 and 10D if you are looking for used), but all feel very different in your hand. Jeffry's suggestion of a 20D or XT with 17-40/4 and 70-200/4 and maybe a flash (580ex) is an outfit capable of pro level images, but not super wide. If you like a wide view of the world consider adding a Canon 10-22 or Tamron 12-24 (for either Canon or Nikon).

Scott are you sure about AZ Highways accepting digital? He was the world's last hold out and very insistant that only 4x5 or 8x10 are good enough.

[Scott Brady]

My understanding regarding AZ Highways is that some features are acceptable for digital, but not a cover. Jonathan and Roseann can detail the specifics as they work with the magazine.

[JMyerz]

another option would be the newly released Nikon D200. $1699 gets you a 10.9MP camera with 5fps and a 45 frame buffer.

Combined with nikon glass or the newly developed Carl Ziess glass for nikons and you will get supurb results.

The canon 5D is a tempting choice, however unlike the nikon d200, d2x or the canon 1 series it is made without a metal body and without seals so the elements can and will get in.

For the price the D200 is a full metal frame and fully sealed and at almost 11 mp you will have no problem submitting to any magazines or stock agency. Currently, Corbis (one of the leading stock agencies) has set a 11mp minimum.

Now with anything over 8MP you start to reach the limits of your glass, which one is best? IMHO Nikon has a better contrast range and detail with their glass and with the addition of Carl Zeiss you should get un matched color reproductions and calrity.

Just my two cents...

Justin

[Mlachica]

Last March I bought a Canon Rebel (not the xt) with the 18-55 ef-s lens. This was my first slr so I don't have much to compare it to but I know that it's a perfect first slr for me as far as capabilities/quality go. July comes around and I wanted more zoom so I picked up a canon 70-200 f/4L and LOVE it. The quality of the pictures are so much better with the L lens than the one it came with. And just yesterday I got the canon 17-40 f/4L lens - of course the quality is outstanding and far superior than the 18-55. Glass is so much more important than the body, IMHO.

In retrospect, I wish I bought just the rebel body and the 17-40 f/4L lens. It could have saved some cash. Now that I have the 17-40 and the 18-55, I doubt the 18-55 will see much use. Another good option for a general use lens that was recommended to me by a lot of people is the canon 28-135 with image stabilization which is less expensive than the 17-40.

When I bought my lens last night I played with some macro lenses like the tamron 90, canon 50 and canon 100. They are so much fun! I think the canon 100 will be my next purchase.

I don't know if there's a samys camera (http://www.samys.com) near you, but I like there customer service and the prices are very competitive. sorry if I rambled, I got excited :victory:

[Scott Brady]

Great feedback on your new L lenses. Now that my truck is mostly finished I will be spending more cash on glass. :elkgrin:

[Mlachica]

Now that my truck is mostly finished

Something I thought you'd never say...:smileeek:

I love photography, someday I'd like to get published also :o. I've got a long ways to go.

[Scott Brady]

yeah, if I put anymore crap on the thing the wheels will just fall off :D

Time to stop wrenching and start driving! :archaeolo

[Life_in_4Lo]

another option would be the newly released Nikon D200. $1699 gets you a 10.9MP camera with 5fps and a 45 frame buffer.

Combined with nikon glass or the newly developed Carl Ziess glass for nikons and you will get supurb results.

The canon 5D is a tempting choice, however unlike the nikon d200, d2x or the canon 1 series it is made without a metal body and without seals so the elements can and will get in.

For the price the D200 is a full metal frame and fully sealed and at almost 11 mp you will have no problem submitting to any magazines or stock agency. Currently, Corbis (one of the leading stock agencies) has set a 11mp minimum.

Now with anything over 8MP you start to reach the limits of your glass, which one is best? IMHO Nikon has a better contrast range and detail with their glass and with the addition of Carl Zeiss you should get un matched color reproductions and calrity.

Just my two cents...

Justin

Nikon is the only one that makes it's own glass. Canon glass is made by Tahmron.
The only thing that was holding Nikon back was the AF. Canon really was the king for digital but Nikon has caught up in AF and imo, the Nikon stuff is better made and simply takes better pics.
I was really into Canon, but I feel the Nikons are a cut above. I just got a D70 and it is very nice. I can't wait to really get into it and see how it does for the long haul.
No complaints w/ my Digital Rebel but this is the next step up for sure.

I am not into it enough to justify the more expensive bodies- "pro-sumer" level is fine for me. I plan on a couple good, fast lenses and that will be my kit.

[CAPTAIN COORS]

chuck, i just upgraded to a canon 5d my old canon 10d is for sale, body only for around $500

[pangaea]

Although the subject has probably been beaten to death, I thought I'd add my 2&#162; since I've been away for the past couple of weeks and haven't had a chance to chime in:

Nikon vs. Canon - Many folks will tout the advantages of one over the other. IMO, the bottom line is that both are great systems. If you can go to a local camera shop, try them both out and see which one works for you. Maybe consider what your travelling buddies shot with, because of the shared lens factor. I shoot Canon mainly because I grew up with it. My dad shot Canon, so I had a familiar system and some lenses right off the bat, but I've shot Nikon SLRs before and think that they're great too.

Body vs. Lens - Assuing that we're talking about Canon here, the difference in image quality between a Rebel XT and a 20D is pretty negligable. Your going to get better images by stepping up to the L series glass. If it were me, I'd buy a Rebel XT, and spend the money you saved on a 70-200 f/4L. Super sharp lens that will give you great images. If you have aspirations of going pro, you should still be able to sell images from a 20D, I've sold to a few mags before and they always seem to print great.

Later on Down the Road - Again, assuming you have aspirations to go pro, learn the Rebel, get everything that you can from it, and when you can afford it, skip the 5D and go straight to the 1Ds Mk II (or MK III if its out then) This is definitely the camera body to get if you're serious about your shooting. If you're planning to sell to stock photo houses, they require a 45MB image IIRC, and this is the only one out there to deliver that straight out of the can (as far as I know). Yeah, its pricey, but the Rebel XT will keep you going for a while, and if you're really serious about shooting and are starting to get some work, the 1Ds will pay for itself.

[jedi]

So, I'm planning on upgrading to a digital SLR this year. I have a big Brazil trip in June and I would like to have a better camera for that trip. .......... I don't want to upgrade camera again for many years after this purchase.

Thanks for any insight.


I would say that if you wanted a camera that you would be able to use for years you might actually look at a film camera. Nikon FM3 is a manual focus bomb proof unit. It will work as long as they keep making film. It is ultra reliable and I believe will even work w/o batteries. I have an Olympus OM-4, which is similar but Nikon gear is better supported and easier to find.

Digital is like a computer and puts you on forced obsolensence every few years. You would not want to be using a 486 chip and win 95 today, and you will probably find your digital camera to be just as outdated in 2-3 years. There are some nice advantages, like free processing, but all the required extra stuff (cards, readers, hard drives, photoshop cs, laptop for field use)adds up and needs regular replacements (like still using a 32mb CF card).

Having said that, the Canon Rebel XT is in the current sweet spot of dslrs. You get the Canon 8mp chip. It is a better imager than the 6mp Sony sensor that Nikon, Pentax, and Minolta use. It costs a little more but you get a little more. Canon has the the best modern lenses. Canon is also the most stable camera company. You may have heard Minolta quit the biz recently (sold it to Sony). Nikon is is good too but Pentax is a little bit of a question-they build some great stuff but Canon really is the 800 pound gorilla of the industry.

BTW-Pentax has lowered the price of its dslr kit (w/lens) to $599, so that would be a great bargin buy.

Finally, the big photo show PMA is the 26th of Feb and some new models will probably be announced, so if you are still looking, check dpreview then for info and maybe some preice drops too.

Good luck!!

[jedi]

One more idea- do not rule out the used market for equipment, especially for lenses. www.keh.com is a great place for good stuff. They grade equipment very conservatively so even bargin level equipment is better than "mint" on eb&y. They also give you a few weeks to try it out and have a good return policy. Prices are fair too.

[UncleChris]

Hey guys,

Thought I would drudge up an old thread.

I have been reading everyone's post and getting a lot of info out of this.

My issue is that I have a Nikon Pronea 6i which uses aps. I got it a few years ago and loved it until I realized how convenient digital is(I love taking pictures...but I am lazy).

So after reading all of the posts, I figured these are what I am looking for;

Something that is relatively bulletproof. (dustproof, sealed)

Something that could take my old Pronea 24-70mm zoom(?Is this possible)

Something that is not too expensive (~$700)

I am looking at the Nikons (D50, D70). Would it be worth it to even try to use the old lens?

My old boss at work is big time into photography. He is a big Canon guy. He claims that he has one gray hair for every time I mentioned the N-word(he is pretty gray!)

Does anyone know how bulletproof the low end Nikons are?Canons?

Thanks

[JMyerz]

The lower end canons and nikons are roughly the same with a slight lead to nikon. I've had a D70 as a backup for a while and it works great and rarely am I worried about dust. I worry more about vibrations in a car than I do anything else.

I'll actually have my D70s up for sale soon, so PM me if you would like more info.

J

[jedi]

At the low end dslr (calling $700 low end, seems wrong on so many levels) the Nikons are more solid than the 6mp Canon. The 8mp Rebel XT is very nice (some claim it is too small to hold with larger hands) but it runs $750 just for the body.

D50 is suprisingly well put together for under $600.

Do not think your Pronea lenses will work on the Nikon digital SLR lines.

Panasonic will be making Olympus style 4/3 dlsr's that use Leica lenses and have traditional analog dial controls on the lens if you are old school and like to see and set your aperture and shutterspeed.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Would this be a good camera for the first time digital owner?

I've taken pictures for 30 years but never owned a digital.

The: Finepix S5200 5MP Digital Camera w/ 10X Opt. Zoom

I found a Great deal on it for only $233 after $50 rebate........wait!.....they just lowered the price...now it's $223........!

I like the specs.....and really don't know how much better it could get.

Any thoughts?





http://www2.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=cnet&sku=FJFPS5200#productIncludes

The changing price seems to mess with the above link. So if the link does not work just go to www.buydig.com .....then do a search.



http://www2.buydig.com/assets/product/images250/FBD35F76DD1149EFB928D57416711E51.jpg


edit.....Wait!.....I blinked again and the final price just went down to $221....! Now my credit card is doing flips!

[Scott Brady]

I have the S5000, and have used it with great success for several years. You can also fit standard screw-on filters to it as well.

Nearly all of the images on my website were taken with the Fuji S5000

Great deal by the way too...

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks Scott!!!!!

I think I can feel my credit card starting to vibrate in my wallet!:Wow1:

Just for converstation sake. Here are some pics I took two weeks ago up near Red Mountain/Randsburg, CA. with only my LG 1.3mp camera phone.

So they do work in a pinch!

[UncleChris]

The lower end canons and nikons are roughly the same with a slight lead to nikon. I've had a D70 as a backup for a while and it works great and rarely am I worried about dust. I worry more about vibrations in a car than I do anything else.

I'll actually have my D70s up for sale soon, so PM me if you would like more info.

J

Thanks, look for my pm.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

OK........

My trigger finger was itchy this morning So I had to click and buy my first ever digital camera!

The..........Fuji FinePix S5200

Only $221 after $50 rebate..........free shipping.....no tax!:ylsmoke:

I will use the $50 savings to buy a 1 gig memory card.:luxhello:

Suggested Retail at the Fuji website.......$399...!!!$%:rolleyes:

What a Country!!!!!!:jump:


http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/digitalcamera/images/overviewphotos/S5200_duo_lg.jpg


http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/digitalcamera/images/overviewphotos/S5200_rear_lg


http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/digitalcamera/images/overviewphotos/S5200_top_lg.jpg

[datrupr]

Very nice Mark. Congrats on your fine purchase.

[articulate]

Very nice Mark. Congrats on your fine purchase.
Fine purchase! BWAAAA!!!! This place is covered in puns!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks......Aaron.....Mark,

I've been putting this off for so long! But at this price.....it's kind of like buying a throw away watch. By the time I'm done with it.....there will be even more, way better choices out there at around the same price!:ylsmoke:


Just think of all the pix of the Scenic Wonders I can get now!.....that will be sooooo Fine!.........:elkgrin:


......you guys are soooo punny!

[Mlachica]

Niiiiiice SWR I can't wait to see some results!

[BajaTaco]

Damn, that's a lot of camera for just $220. Nice! Let us know how you like the anti-blur after you get to play with it for a while.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Thanks> ML.....BT,

I got my "shipped" confirmation today.

I think my credit card is still having cold sweats from this great buy he found!......hehe;) :D

My new Fuji Finepix S5200 is due this Friday!

Will be glad to share some pics......if I ever get my truck out of the hospital! UG!


......I'm glad I bought when I did.....the current lowest price on the Fuji is $239 after rebate!!!!!!!

Fuji FinePix S5200 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&ci=1&kw=FUFPS5200&shs=FUFPS5200&Q=&O=)

[Scenic WonderRunner]

My Fuji FinePix arrived today! :wavey:

Here is my first ever digital pic taken out my kitchen window (through a dirty! double pane glass) on a very rainy San Diego day! Getting dark out but you wouldn't know it from the pic!

I just set it on Auto.....and clicked!:sunflower

When the pic is in my puter at full resolution the lines in the fence are straight. But when I downsize the pic to attach in this post....the lines run together a bit. I guess I will learn how to fix that with time?

It took me forever to find this pic in my puter.....it's like lost in space!

I'm hoping the odd shaded color by the brick pillar is either my kitchen light reflecting on the window......or I did something funny when I was experimenting with the "pic correction" features. I don't remember it being there on the first shot.



.......just testing.......

[datrupr]

Very nice Mark, very nice.