2WD Van Build

[spencyg]

All,
I've been lurking the forums for quite some time and have enjoyed the multitude of conversations which have taken place.

My wife and I are taking a long trip next year across the northern most reaches of Canada, Alaska, and then south into Baja, and possibly into Central America if we are feeling brave enough. At first I had begun to build a Unibody Nissan Pathfinder for the adventure with the intent of installing a rooftop tent, upgrading the suspension, installing refrigeration, etc. After much soul searching, we decided that this vehicle just was not up to the task at hand and we will be selling it.
I just purchased a 1993 Ford E350 XL van with an International 7.3L N/A Diesel. This monster is the new build platform and I feel its far more solid than than the Nissan. At first I was contemplating a 4x4 conversion, but after doing my research both of the conversion, and of our desired route, it seems like it may be overkill. We will be sticking mostly to primary and secondary roads, though I don't want to feel limited by the vehicle if we want to do a little off-road adventuring. I guess the big question is this...how limited will I be with this vehicle if I install an ARB locker in the rear and make sure I have tire chains? I will be lifting the truck 2" to make room for 285-75-16 A/T tires, so clearance shouldn't be an issue. From what I've read, a locked 2WD drive train will perform *nearly* as well as an unlocked 4x4. After all, an unlocked 4x4 is just powering the two wheels with the least amount of traction...

Thoughts? Comments? I have a complete machine and fabrication shop, so fabrication of the lift and other components isn't an issue...

Spence
Maine

[ujoint]

If you do stick to decent roads, the 2wd will do just fine. A rear locker will help for sure, maybe for rutted roads where the rear axle is getting twisted up. I always hit trails in 2wd until I need the 4wd, and I've been surprised a number of times when I thought I could climb the hill/road in 2wd ( I have a detroit locker in the rear) and couldn't. The weight of the van just made the rear tires spin. ------- I would hate to see you plan this long trip and limit yourself on the roads/areas you can explore with a 2wd. Especially if you're runnin solo. There are soooo many awesome places that you can explore. You have to look at a 4wd conversion as an investment, 4x4 vans hold their value really well, especially with a diesel. ------------As far as the lift goes, if you don't have the machinery to bend the I-beams, you'll need to fabricate drop brackets for them as well as the radius arms, and install taller coils. --Chris

[Lynn]

We used to hunt all over Colorado with an open, 2wd pickup. That, and an old Rambler American 2-dr sedan... You just have to be selective as to where (and when) you go.

I had a great uncle years ago that was an avid 'coon hunter in Ohio. He cussed his newly-acquired 4wd jeep, because he was always getting stuck. He said that with his old 2wd truck he "knew better than to try to go there." :)

[G35Vortec454]

When I started out years ago, I had the same way of thinking like yours: "I'm not going to be doing "extreme" offroading". Problem is "extreme" is relative and when you're faced with a real situation such as a very inviting beach that requires you to cross ONLY 50ft of blow sand, it's easy to get tempted and get in trouble. So recently, I concluded that I need a little pulling power of the front axle and am in the process of completing my half-done 4WD conversion.

I don't know if you've read my other posts here but if you haven't do a search. Also if you'd like, read my trip reports at http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=25757

[spencyg]

Were you running a locker in the rear and still running into issues? I'm just wondering if a locker and the occasional tire chains will get me through most situations.The other option is UNLOCKED 4WD....so I guess the question is, would a locked and chained 2WD van perform in a similar manner to an unlocked and unchained 4x4?

Spence

[G35Vortec454]

Spence, I was driving an ARB locker on the FOUR dually tires aired down.

[spencyg]

Well that isn't encouraging...converting to 4x4 is looking quite costly with the 7.3L diesel. The axle and suspension part is actually the cheapest of the components. I certainly don't want to feel limited by the vehicle. We'll be taking a year out of our lives for this trip, and it needs to be everything we hope and more. Maybe I need to really start looking at my 4x4 options.

Any thoughts on divorced transfer cases?

Spence

[ujoint]

I think it will get really old putting tire chains on & off everytime you need to cross something. (& dirty) Divorced t-cases SUCK!! It's very very difficult to get everything lined up properly with no vibrations. And also, on your van, there isn't any room for it, the fuel tank is in the way. The tank will have to be trimmed anyway with the 4x4 conversion, but not much. The 4x4 conversion isn't too bad to complete. How many miles are on the van?

Here's what you need with est costs:
my 4x4 van conversion kit $550
99-04 F250/350 front axle $1000-1200
Dynatrac free spin hub kit $1700
Front leaf springs $550
Transfer case $1000
Tranny rebuild/mods $500-700
Feul tank mods $150-200
front driveshaft (cv long travel) $600
brake lines $60
steering components $300
shocks $300 (front & rear)

Of course these are pretty close estimates, assuming you can handle the labor, the prices above will get you 4wd. There are always options (locker), and you have to consider what to do in the rear. All said & done, you should be under 10K. ---------Chris

[spencyg]

I really don't see myself spending $5000 on a 4x4 conversion at this point. The van has 210000 on the odometer, so right off the bat I'm doing some diesel service and rebuilding the transmission. I could machine an adapter to mate the existing 2WD transmission to an NP205. I already have a really nice NP208P with a fixed output flange, but it might be too light duty for my purposes. I can get a late 70's Dana 60 1 ton axle locally for $750. The suspension would be the easy part...a set of $350 Alcan springs and some mixing and matching of steering components. I could probably do the swap for under $2000 but its still a giant PITA. I really need to do some soul searching before making any decisions..

Did I mention my wife wanted to do this trip in a Hyundai Accent? Needless to say we're not seeing eye to eye on the vehicle selection, so to go and do a 4x4 conversion to the van may end in divorce:(

Spence

[ujoint]

Good luck with the decision making process!! I'm sure it's difficult explaining all of this to the wife. Since you're going through the tranny anyway, I would just have the output shaft swapped out for a 4x4 unit & slap a t-case on it. (if you go 4x4)--Chris

[j_nigrelli]

Any thoughts on divorced transfer cases?


i think after a year of this you'll be closer than you think!

[spencyg]

I actually stumbled upon quite a deal this evening. I was doing a bit of searching and found a guy locally who has a pair of Dodge 1 ton axles, a Dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear with 3.08 gears installed. He also has a divorced NP205 complete with linkages....he would sell the whole deal for $800. I don't think I could do better then this, especially with the high gears which will be great on the highway. Now all I need to do is sell the idea to Mrs. SpencyG.

Spence

[Red Zebra]

I actually stumbled upon quite a deal this evening. I was doing a bit of searching and found a guy locally who has a pair of Dodge 1 ton axles, a Dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear with 3.08 gears installed. He also has a divorced NP205 complete with linkages....he would sell the whole deal for $800. I don't think I could do better then this, especially with the high gears which will be great on the highway. Now all I need to do is sell the idea to Mrs. SpencyG.

Spence

I've had the same thoughts about a stout 2wd van....

What's the verdict? Going for 4wd or the 2wd build up? Regardless, you should be ready for self-extraction. Winch? Pull-pal? pair of high lifts? chains? Shovel? Sand ladders? etc? etc? Maybe a rokon on the back for good measure.... www.rokon.com :rolleyes:

I ran a lifted 2wd Toyota truck for years...had a detroit with 4.56. Had to know it's limitations and I was prepared to self extract. You can get over your head in 2 or 4 wd--usually you're in over your head further from civilization with 4wd:oops: . I feel 4wd even with open diffs is better than a locked 2wd only because of the low range capability. Each has their place....

Regardless of how you do it, the adventure awaits! (And we want to tag along....so be sure to post.)

[HMR]

I wish I had pics to share but I met a couple on a recent camping trip that were touring North America in a 2wd chevy van. They bought one of these brand new, no windows, V6 and completely stripped:
http://wileyp.smugmug.com/photos/190299264-S.jpg

The husband had designed and installed a very cool interior including extra batteries, water storage, fully stocked galley, etc. We got into a long discussion on 2wd vs. 4wd. They'd already gone from Florida to San Diego, up to Alaska (including the haul road) and were working their way back towards the east coast. His reason for choosing 2wd was that 98% of their trip was on nicely paved roads, another 1% on good dirt roads and the final 1% might not be passable without 4wd. He was willing to sacrifice that 1% for the better mpg he got from the 2wd. They had hit just about every place I've been or would like to go and done it all in 2wd without a problem. I've been to all 50 states and have to admit that 99% of my camping could've been accessed with 2wd. It seems I usually get to a campsite in 2wd and then go "looking" for something that requires 4wd. I'm not getting rid of my 4x4 anytime soon but I could definately see my wife and I building up a 2wd van someday.

[spencyg]

I'm building the van with a 4WD system....initially it appeared that 2WD could be built to handle 4WD situations, but I think it would be too much effort. I just picked up a Dana 60 front axle and NP205 t-case....let the fun begin.

Spence