Waterton-Glacier and Yellowstone NP (Date still open)

[OverlandZJ]

Doubt this qualifies as an expedition, but i'm planning a trip to Montana and Wyoming for this coming June. My son graduates HS this year and my best bud and i are taking him west. We'll have a convoy of 3 modified Jeeps.

We'll be leaving 6/9/06 and return to Philadelphia area around the 25th. I expect to get out to Wall,SD by noon on the 11th. Plan is to spend a few days outside Yellowstone fishing the area and then to Glacier for another week of camping and exploring and seeing the sights.

Were not the type to camp in common campgrounds and are seeking advice from others for remote camps, secret fishin holes and your favorite watering holes. Any input as far as backcountry scenic drives are also appreciated.

This will be my first trip to Grizzly country, i have read up on most Bear safety recomendations. I have camped in Black Bear country for years and never had an issue. Not being at the top of the food chain does make me nervous.

My bud has been to Glacier back in 94 with an old GF but did the inn/cabin thing. I'd like to make this a trip my son will remember for a lifetime...or until we get to Alaska in 08. Any input you guys can provide to make this a great trip will be much appreciated.

And of course any locals or others in the area are more than welcome to come share a seat around the campfire.

Thanks in advance!

[mountainpete]

Are you coming to the Canadian side (Waterton)?

If so, I can give you a bunch of ideas in the area. I spent a lot of time down there as a kid and still go there at least once a year. If you want to come about an hour north of there you can even hit some amazing Alberta backroads...:elkgrin:

[paulj]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'common campgrounds'. Apart from the busy National Park campgrounds, most designated sites are on Forest Service lands. There may also be some BLM campsites. Some Forest Service districts also allow 'distributed' camping.

For a start, identify the forest service districts in the areas that you are interested in, and look them up on the web. Each district has some sort of guide to campgrounds, camping policies, and hikes. Some campgrounds are operated by private contractors, and have preservable sites (through ReserveAmerica).

The DeLorme map atlas book for the state would also be a good resource.

paulj

[OverlandZJ]

Are you coming to the Canadian side (Waterton)?

If so, I can give you a bunch of ideas in the area. I spent a lot of time down there as a kid and still go there at least once a year. If you want to come about an hour north of there you can even hit some amazing Alberta backroads...:elkgrin:

I'd love to head into Canada and as far as Banff and Jasper...it's one of the places i'v wanted to visit for years. But i wont have the time this trip. I'm expecting to drive through that area in 08 on my way to Alaska.

[OverlandZJ]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'common campgrounds'. Apart from the busy National Park campgrounds, most designated sites are on Forest Service lands. There may also be some BLM campsites. Some Forest Service districts also allow 'distributed' camping.

For a start, identify the forest service districts in the areas that you are interested in, and look them up on the web. Each district has some sort of guide to campgrounds, camping policies, and hikes. Some campgrounds are operated by private contractors, and have preservable sites (through ReserveAmerica).

The DeLorme map atlas book for the state would also be a good resource.

paulj

Common campgrounds, i was refering to the tourist traps, KOA's and the like. I should have specified...we wont camp within the parks.

Forest Service camps are exactly what i'm looking for. My bud has the Gazateers for the areas and i havent had the opportunity to sit down with him and go over them yet. We really enjoy camping on/close to water.

I have a bad back so i had to give up backpacking years ago. My son and bud will surely take a day hike or two while i wet a fly.

Distributed Camping...is that camping permitted anywhere? 100' away from a water source/road etc?

Thanks for the input guys. :beer:

[mountainpete]

I'd love to head into Canada and as far as Banff and Jasper...it's one of the places i'v wanted to visit for years. But i wont have the time this trip. I'm expecting to drive through that area in 08 on my way to Alaska.

You don't have to go as far as Banff and Jasper - those places are packed with tourists anyways and camping is very restricted. There are lots of backcountry camping spots (Forestry Campsites) just north of the border at Eureka/Whitefish (a bunch inbetween Roosville, Elko, Cranbrook, Moyie and the border). The main fire roads there are high-speed fun too!

I know of one pretty little lake up there (Cherry lake if memory serves me right). We went there last year and it was a blast just trying to find. The roads just got to the point where it was more like a horse trail and then all of a sudden a pretty little lake with some nice clearings for camping. Fly fishing wasn't the best though - lots of fish but they were all pretty small. There a literally dozens of similar places in the area.

[Darren]

I'm not familiar with what camping you could get away with within Yellowstone, so I can't speak to that.

As for Glacier, the west side offers the most possibilities, as outside the park boundary is national forest. Specifically, in the Polebridge area up FR 486. There are a number of forest roads that take off to the west.

Outside the eastern side of the park is Indian reservation land, but I have managed to stay at a spot just outside the park entrance on the Many Glacier Road near the Lake Sherburne dam. On the south side, there is a dirt road that spurs off about 100 yards. It goes back into the trees where you could fit 3 vehicles easily enough and be hidden from view (from the road). I'm not sure if this is actually legal, per se, but I stayed here 3 consecutive nights without issue, and my truck was in plain view as there was a mud puddle that was blocking access back into the trees which I decided not to go through. There are a couple other side roads right in this area along Many Glacier Road, but this one seems to be the best option.

If you're looking to head up into Waterton, the best option for dispersed camping is just north of the Belly River Campground, which is just north of the border. The area sits in Beebee Flats. The dirt road turnoff is immediately north of a bridge on the west side crosses a stream (North Belly Creek, I presume). There is also a sign at the bridge, but I didn't record what it says. Anyway, there are a vast number of great spots back in here, both forested and open, and is only 20 minutes from the Waterton townsite.

[paulj]

Different forest districts have different policies regarding distributed camping. That's why I suggested looking up the districts.

As an example in the forests that I am most familiar with in western Washington, there are a number of sites that have been used informally for years - some off on lightly used side roads, some at clearings beside the main highways. Many are occupied on a first come basis during summer weekends. On the other hand, I believe some California districts are restricting such camping because of over use and/or abuse.

I suspect the Montana districts are non-restrictive, but I'd want to check anyways. Designated sites, though, will have the advantage of providing a table and outhouses. They are likely to be cleaner as well. Many FS sites also provide water and garbage collection, but these will all require payment.

Distributed sites are user maintained - or abused. Since it is hard to find lists of such sites, they mostly used by locals who know the area well.

paulj

[Cowboy]

Howdy fellas -

I'm the other half of this trip and have camped throughout the park including some the areas north of Polebridge. During my first trip I did contact the Blackfeet Rez for permission and they were very friendly about it. Might be worth spending time there as there's very little development. Anyone with any experiences to mention camping on the Rez? Some of the areas were closed because of forest fires the last time but the camps off Kitna Lake I believe were empty. I'd like to get deeper into the bush this time.

Traveling north of the border presents it's own problems because of gun restrictions so we'll stay on the US side.

Are there mandatory food storage regulations in place now? I heard they may have required backcountry travelers purchase some of those "bear-proof" containers that are strung up. Last time I was there a Grizz had pulled out a windshield to get at a Snickers bar in a glove compartment.

[OverlandZJ]

We have had the opportunity to do some research on the web,Gazateer etc my son has found he likes the possibilities offered in The Gallatin NF outside Yellowstone. We'll be spending about three days in that area.

We'll then spend about a week in Flathead NF outside Glacier NP. Looking at the gazateer we should have no trouble finding enough back roads to get us in a remote area where we can find the solitude were seeking. I still need to research designated camping locations within these mentioned NF's.

We'v also made a scheduling change. We will be pushing back the trip one week to depart on 4-16. That will add two days on the backside with July 4th holiday, that gives us another day out west and one day added to the return drive.

Thanks for all the input thus far...you guys are great. :beer:

I'm so looking forward to this trip, alot of new experiences for me. :jump:

[calamaridog]

John,

Bear safety in the National Parks is limited to bear spray and noise makers. Firearms are not allowed in the National Parks. Get some bear spray and one of those disposable air horns if you are going to do any back country camping and hiking if it will make you feel more comfortable.

Grizzly sightings in Yellowstone are rare as they are usually in the most remote areas of the park. Grizzly sightings in Glacier are more common.

[OverlandZJ]

John,

Bear safety in the National Parks is limited to bear spray and noise makers. Firearms are not allowed in the National Parks. Get some bear spray and one of those disposable air horns if you are going to do any back country camping and hiking if it will make you feel more comfortable.

Grizzly sightings in Yellowstone are rare as they are usually in the most remote areas of the park. Grizzly sightings in Glacier are more common.


I'v been in contact with NF Rangers in Gallatin and Flathead, both allow firearms for personal protection. We wont be camping within NP boundries.

I'll be making reservations for a rustic cabin outside Bozeman,MT in Gallatin NF for a few days as we hire a guide for a float trip down the Yellowstone or Madison Rivers.

From there we'll be tenting wherever we end up. We will be taking day trips to see Yellowstone and Glacier NP's, and seeing a Grizz sure would make this trip memorable.

Anyone here have a friend or family members who offer guided fishing trips in the Yellowstone area? Or have had a positive experience with a particular outfitter?

:campfire:

[calamaridog]

I've fished and hiked Yellowstone and the Beartooth Mts./Absaroka area many times. I've limited on trout before lunch every day I've fished. The fishing is awesome.

The likelyhood of actually seeing a Grizzly is extremely low. I've spent at least 100 nights in Gallatin/Shoshone/Custer NF and never seen one. My family members have been going there from Cody WY for over a 100 years and few have ever seen a Grizzly.

This is not to say we haven't had visitors. Footprints outside of the campsite, vehicle broken into at a trailhead, fresh tracks at the streamside that weren't there moments before. That "feeling" when the little hairs stand up on your neck and your :sunny: hole snaps shut and you feel totally alive but wonder for how much longer?

No matter what you do, don't miss the drive from Red Lodge to Cooke City on the Beertooth Hwy. This is a drive you will never forget.

[calamaridog]

I forgot to mention. A visit to Cody, WY (east of Yellowstone) and a day (or more if you have time) at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center, consisting of 5 museums is almost mandatory if you are in the area. They also have the finest Rodeo in the country.

[Scott Brady]

John,

Best of luck on your adventure! I look forward to the pictures and stories :lurk:

[OverlandZJ]

I've fished and hiked Yellowstone and the Beartooth Mts./Absaroka area many times. I've limited on trout before lunch every day I've fished. The fishing is awesome.

The likelyhood of actually seeing a Grizzly is extremely low. I've spent at least 100 nights in Gallatin/Shoshone/Custer NF and never seen one. My family members have been going there from Cody WY for over a 100 years and few have ever seen a Grizzly.

This is not to say we haven't had visitors. Footprints outside of the campsite, vehicle broken into at a trailhead, fresh tracks at the streamside that weren't there moments before. That "feeling" when the little hairs stand up on your neck and your :sunny: hole snaps shut and you feel totally alive but wonder for how much longer?

No matter what you do, don't miss the drive from Red Lodge to Cooke City on the Beertooth Hwy. This is a drive you will never forget.



I know actually having a good encounter with a Grizzly is rare, but i'v been pretty lucky thus far. :elkgrin:

I'll be sure to take that drive...thanks! I also have plans for "Going to the Sun Rd" in Glacier....and just generally cruisin around the backcountry. :victory: Any input on backcountry roads i must see?

Thanks Scott...i wont let ya down. :hehe:

[calamaridog]

I'll try and find the names and exact locations of some good backcountry roads around Beartooth Hwy. I know some of my family's favorite backcountry roads are closed now to vehicles.

We used to drive to one awesome lake for fishing but that road is now closed and it's about a two mile walk. Why they had to close that road, I don't know. It was a road as far back as my Grandfather could remember and it saw maybe 10 vehicles per year.

I haven't been up there now for several years. I am planning on taking my wife and kid in 2007. My wife has never seen Yellowstone/Teton NP and I want her to see them.

[paulj]

I'll try and find the names and exact locations of some good backcountry roads around Beartooth Hwy.

The Beartooth Pass highway was closed most of last summer. The zig zag climb on the Montana side as badly damaged by mudslides in the spring, and they didn't get it repaired until the fall, shortly before snow closed it.

You could still enter the NE corner of Yellowstone by way of Cody and the Chief Joseph Hwy.

http://www.mdt.mt.gov/travinfo/beartooth/ has some great photos of the highway.

paulj

[OverlandZJ]

Thank you guys so much!

I just found this road during a search. I'll have to add this one to my list. :jumping: I'll contact the local ranger district to see if it's still open.

http://goldwest.visitmt.com/listings/894.htm

[paulj]

Another backroads byway in SW Montana is Magruder Corridor - though most of it is in Idaho.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/nezperce/maps/brochures/magruder.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/nezperce/maps/

[OverlandZJ]

Update: Trip Cancelled for now.

I recently suffered a massive heart attack and ended up being the recipient of a triple bypass at age 44. ( I'v had problems in the past which is partly why i started to do more traveling as i could)

Thanks to all who participated in the planning of this trip, it will happen just not in the scheduled 6 weeks from now.

:camping:

[flywgn]

Oh man, sorry to hear that bit of news. Hope all goes well and you get out on the road soon! :victory:

[calamaridog]

Wow John B, I hope your recovery goes well:exclaim:

When you are ready for the trip, let me know and I'll research some of those roads.

[datrupr]

Sorry to hear about your health troubles, but glad that you are still with us. It sounded like a great trip, and I look forward to hearing about it when you do get it accomplished.

[Doin_It]

At 44 it's not the time to be having heart problems. We thank God that you are still here with us to discuss on EPF, as I'm sure so are the rest of yolur family and friends.

[OverlandZJ]

Thanks for the well wishes gents, i realize i'm on the young side but one cant change genetics...it's the cards your dealt.

I'm a beiever that i'll live my life as well as i can for as long as i can.

Now lets move on... :suning:

[OverlandZJ]

The trip is back on :wings: , with the cancellation of running North to Glacier NP.

We leave in 24 days (Sept 14th), hopefully the current fires and restrictions dont take much away from this trip. Most of our time is scheduled in SW Montana outside Dillon and then south of Bozeman where we have NF cabin rentals but will be carrying camp gear if we need to abandon the cabins.

Been taking notes from reports in MT/WY/ID..thanks KC, paulj, mountainpete, erod among others.

Can anyone recommend nice scenic camp locations in the event we may need them?

[kcowyo]

Congrats John, glad to hear the trip will happen. I think you will love SW Montana, it's just like you've dreamed.

I just returned last night, from a 5 day trip up to Glacier NP and we returned through the Dillon/Virginia City/Ennis area and West Yellowstone.
Here's what I can offer you -

There are several fire restrictions in Montana, but a cold front has pushed out most of the smoke. I wouldn't plan on too many areas allowing campfires, but in 4 weeks things may change if they get some precipatation.

In Ennis, I like to camp along the historic Madison River near the Varney Bridge, approximately 6 miles south of town. And when I say on the river, I mean within 6 feet. Sunsets over the river, floaters launching in the morning, it's perfect. Breakfast at the Ennis Cafe on Main Street tastes better than anything I could make in camp....

See Virginia City. It's a well preserved ghost town on the Nat'l Register of Historic Places. A fun place to meander through with a few open cafe's and watering holes.

There is a 4WD road between Dillon and Ennis, that will take you by Black Butte. Well worth the drive and the scenery is top notch. The only person I saw on that trail was a sheepherder from South America, watching over the flock. Very remote, high altitude but fairly easy trails.

South of Bozeman, towards West Yellowstone is one of my favorite drives. The Gallatin Gateway Hotel is an old railroad hotel that is still operating. It is beautiful and worth a peek in the doors on your way by. In Big Sky, there are a ton of condos and ski hills. Pretty, but I usually pass by without going up the mountain.

The Gallatin River follows this road, it's where they filmed "A River Runs Through It", so you know it's beautiful. I like to eat at The Corral in Big Sky, actually a mile or two south of the turn to the ski resort. Great steaks and cold beer. Another couple of miles south on this road there is a nice NF campground called Red Cliffs, that sits right on the Gallatin River. I've camped there a few times and I really like it. Of course it is road construction season, so expect some delays.

Why all of a sudden do I feel like I know more places to eat in Montana, then I do to camp?

[OverlandZJ]

Good info KC, and we thank you. Happen to have a favorite WY or MT book listing scenic drives and points of interest?

Virginia City has been on the list since Big Sky Trapper posted his pics of the area. Thanks for the Dillon to Ennis route, may have to stop in for BearClaws.


If you see a group of Jeep Wranglers in Lander flag us down, i'd be happy to buy you a :beer: I'm not sure i'll be in town but you never know. We'll be heading to the Badlands for a quick 2 days from Hyalite Reservoir Eastern Yellowstone areas.

[kcowyo]

Good info KC, and we thank you. Happen to have a favorite WY or MT book listing scenic drives and points of interest?


John, I sent you a PM with my contact info.

My favorite Wyoming book for scenic drives is called, 8,000 Miles of Dirt by Dan Lewis. It covers everything.

I don't have a favorite book for Montana, I just bring a Nat Geo driving guide book and some recreation maps that I've found at various gas station-convenience stores up there and try trails that look remote. There is no shortage of remote trails in SW Montana.

I would also recommend Bannack State Park, near Dillon. A cool ghost town with well preserved old buildings and history. And the Ruby River Resevoir near Virginia City. Nice lake and nice campground. You'll be happy with any trails in the Beaverhead Nat Forest. Just bring extra fuel if possible. You'll probably need it.

:beer:

[OverlandZJ]

:bowdown:

Bannack is just outside our first "scheduled" location in Horse Prairie, but i was not aware it was a Ghost Town...thanks.

:wings: