109 Expedition rig build [Archive]

Mercedesrover

09-21-2007, 04:04 PM

Hi All,

After posting in the General Discussion section I decided to start a thread over here about the build I’m doing. I recognize a few names over here so some of you might be familiar with it. I’ve had an 88” Series III for a number of years that has been modified and prepared for long-distance trips, of which it’s been on a few. I’m very happy with this truck and it performs very well in all but two categories, the first being top-end speed. It’ll maintain 60 all day and do 65 in a pinch but it’s happier at 55. I’m building this new truck with the hopes of being able to maintain 70, even on grades and be comfortable on the highway. The second shortfall is the amount of available space. With my wife and two dogs along for the ride, packing is an adventure in frugality. With the extra 21” of wheelbase in the 109, it should have plenty of room. Besides that it will mirror the 88” in many respects. Changes have been made with simplicity and reliability as the first priorities followed by ease of repair, maintenance and availability. The 300tdi is a great motor but need a part in North Dakota and you’re out of luck.

I’m starting out with a ’67 NADA 2.6 truck that I acquired last year. Not much left of the truck, as you can see, but it has the desirable 2.6 bulkhead that affords me the extra room to use the engine I want.

The truck will get the following parts thrown at it.

New Stage-One galvanized frame, modified and re-galvanized
Mercedes 3.0L 5-cyl turbo diesel
Rebuilt NP435 4-speed with a Pangolin output shaft and adapter plate
Ashcroft high-ratio transfer case
Toyota 4:10 E-locker center differentials in Land Rover housings
Seriestrek 30-spline axles
FJ60 power steering

The bulkhead is done
The frame is modified and ready for galvanize
The motor is here and oil pan has been modified, motor mounts made.
The bellhousing is built and ready
Tranny and rebuilt kit are here
Waiting on Pangolin adapter kit
Transfer case is here
Differentials are here.
Axles are on their way

I hope to have a rolling chassis by spring when work on getting the body together will begin. Most of the original panels are shot, as you can imagine. I’ve found a decent tub but most everything else will be replaced with new.

It should make for a pretty reliable and capable rig with good range, and one that can spend a few days on the highway getting to different locations before heading into the bush.

I’ve posted a few pictures below and will keep adding to this thread as progress continues. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, feel free to add to it.

Jim

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/2.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/paint4.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/newframe1.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/inframe3.jpg

overlander

09-21-2007, 04:53 PM

Sweet Jesus. You are going to have a fabulously interesting ride when all is said and done, but you'll be the Osama Bin Laden to purists around the world. It's like a romanesque marque orgy for expedition grade automakers.

so what marque are you going to put on it when you're done?

BTW, have you considered changing your userid to rovermercedes? just a thought...

ChuckB

09-21-2007, 07:10 PM

Very cool!! I have been on your webpage numerous times. Looks like a great combination of reliable parts. I also love the old Rover looks. Too bad you couldn't use the H55F... you would have made a lot of Cruiser friends!!!! I'm hoping to convert my FJ55 to diesel. Just not sure which motor yet?

Mercedesrover

09-21-2007, 07:52 PM

I thought about the H55F and almost did it for no other reason than the 5-speed. It's kind of an odd tranny here in the states though, and it's a little long. I'd also have to run the LC T-case which I didn't want to do. What I'm loosing in gears with the NP435 I'm gaining in cost, availability, reliability and the fact that I can keep the Series T-case.

If you're serious about mounting an H55F to the back of a 617/616 Benz, let me know. I've got a couple of brand new Benz bellhousings that I ordered from Germany and I'm thinking about ordering what's left over there. (There are only 4 more in the world.) If you give me the stick-out length, input bearing retainer diameter and the basic shape of the bolt pattern I can probably make you one.

Here's the finished bellhousing for the NP435

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/adpt4.JPG

bovw

09-21-2007, 08:31 PM

This is going to be a very good read. I'll be waiting for updates with the anticipation of the next Overland Journal!

TeriAnn

09-21-2007, 09:11 PM

Hey Jim, :wavey:

Have you considered a 2 door rear tub on the 109? With bad panels it looks like a good time to think about what goes on behind the front doors. You can get more wall space for cabinetry & such out of a 2 door and those taller side benches allow more stuff to be mounted underneath at frame level. With two people you will need all the rear space you can get.

I looked at the 5 cylinder once and was dismayed by all the hangy down parts on the right side of the engine. Are any being moved? How do you plan to thread the front prop shaft through the obstacles? :bowdown:

You didn't mention it but I assume you are planning on a front disc brake conversion. Holding a 109 stationary in a steep nose up attitude immediately becomes an extreme isometric exercise. Those dual leading front shoes help in forward braking but provide very little help in the reverse direction. Its on my list as an important safety upgrade.

I'm glad you are documenting the engine swap. There has been a lot of interest in it but people usually just look at all the hangy down stuff sitting around frame level and walk away. :yikes:

Good luck with it

Mercedesrover

09-21-2007, 09:39 PM

Nah, I really want a 4-door. Just easier with the pups and reaching things in the front of a long bed is a pain. I can survive for weeks at a time in an 88" so the extra room of the 109 will be gravy.

Them hangy bits aren't that tough. I had the same problem with the 4-cyl Benz engine in the 88". A little chop and weld to the upper aluminum pan and a little chop and weld to the lower steel pan and you're good to go. No need to move the pick-up tube or oil pump. Keep in mind I'm running hypoid type Toyota diffs and the pinion is a bit lower in the case than with a Rover diff. Still, I had the Benz engine in the 88" before I changed diffs and it was fine.

Call me crazy but I'm keeping drum brakes. Don't know what all the fuss is about disks. All they've ever done for me is get stones stuck in the calipers and scream going down the road. My 88" is still on drums and it stops like a dream. Bleed them properly and keep them adjusted and I think they're fine.

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/pan5.JPG

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/pan6.JPG

jim

ChuckB

09-22-2007, 01:28 AM

dieselcruiserhead

09-22-2007, 03:21 AM

Hi Jim congrats and great...
I wish I had better photos but I have a H55F in the 109 in the truck for sale in my sig. The only real odd thing was they had to fab a custom dog house which was a little unrover like and was done decently but not excellently.

My daily driver was the OM617 through about last winter when at 340K miles it finally stopped starting well in the cold (-6F here in the mornings sometimes), but was a great engine. I think it will go well into a 109. It can cruise as you know as high as 3500 rpms easily and enjoys the higher revs. That said I probably would have considered the overdrive option a little more heavily but you will be fine. And the NP435 is a hell of a reliable old school transmission.

There are excellent writeups on retrofitting the e lockers to different vehicles. I did it with my last 55 and did not use resistors in the path it fried my locker in about 6 months of regular use and nearly caused a fire at out on Kane Creek during Cruise moab, camping one night, two years ago. The single pull double-throw momentary switch method also works great and I've heard of no failures that way even without resistors. I am doing e-lockers with my current build and plan to use the OEM switch and computer. That said, you can wire from scratch easily and use resistors and relays, or even convert to cables (the best/easiest option) using a kit from Downey.

Good luck and looks great. Also be careful not to breath those fumes when welding.. I have heard they are a ***** with the illness and that the sickness actually can lead to permanent damage contrary to most reports. I plan on galvanizing my chassis and only hope I get most of the fab done before then.

Cheers,
Andre

Linus Tremaine

09-22-2007, 07:25 AM

Jim,
what a beautiful thing you are building. the 5 cylinder is one engine I would love to have in a rover. They are great.

Alas, I dont have the equipment (or brain power/patience) to make one for myself. Thus stuck with the rover engine for now.

Any chance there is a distributor in that 2.6 that you dont need anymore??

and a water pump?

or a distributor drive gear? thats still decent???

Just wanting to collect spares for my dormobile.

Mercedesrover

09-22-2007, 11:22 AM

Andre -

Those are great motors, aren't they. I can't wait to get this on the road and see how it pulls. The 616 in my 88" is perfect for that truck and has never let me down. I just keeps running and running. Funny to have an old Rover that you don't have to open the hood every time you want to go for a ride.

I agree that the overdrive might be nice but if push comes to shove I can always add one to it. I don't really think there is a great solution for overdrives for these trucks. The Fairy shifts nice but is noisy and doesn't last very long. The Roverdrive is quiet but shifts like a bus and runs VERY hot. I've got one of those in the 88" though, and it really helps with the low horsepower of that truck.

I've already got 4:56 e-lockers in my 88". Did it a few years ago and as far as I know was the first one to stuff them in a leafer housing. (I actually sell axles for that conversion as well as 24-spline axles for Series trucks.) I'm a little worried right now that the 4:10s are going to be a little tall for this truck. If it ends up they are, I'll switch them out with the 4:56 diffs in my 88" and rebuild these with 5:29s for that truck. Here's a picture of the front one for the 88" done and ready to go in the truck:

http://www.seriestrek.com/axle/front2.jpg

I wired them through the limit switches and have no trouble with them at all. The wires all run to a box on the tunnel with momentary switches.

http://www.seriestrek.com/axle/lockbox.jpg

There's a right up about the conversion on my site. http://www.seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html

Sorry Linus, I sold that engine and tranny months ago. It was a good running motor that went somewhere out west. Utah maybe? I forget.

jim

dieselcruiserhead

09-22-2007, 04:54 PM

Yeah I agree about the aftermarket overdrives, no real nice options and I feel like they add a lot of clunk to the drivetrain too...

Neat to see those diffs in the Rover housings, very cool! I had the old 4.10, 4.56 philosophy but things changed a little with these low revving diesels that have their sweet spot under 2000 rpms. I'm running 35's with this current truck I'm building and thought is 4.1 should now be too tall too :) But I'm stuck with them with gears/diffs from a FZJ80. 8" high pinion front, 9" rear. They make slower (4.56, 4.88) but nothing faster than a 4.1. 3.73 would get me down to bout 1800-2000 rpms at cruising speed on the freeway in OD which would be perfect. With the 4.1s my mileage will go down and rpms up at the higher speeds, 70-75+, but not that big a deal...

I think 4.1 will be great and you'll be at 2500-3000 which should be perfect with ~31" tires that I imagine you'll run?

Cheers Jim and nice to see another Rover project from you! I love the old original Mercedes Rover!

dieselcruiserhead

09-22-2007, 05:06 PM

Jim just checked out your site. I really dig those axles, very cool! When I had my '88 I was always worried I would break an axle out somewhere. Cheers and that is great. Are there good brake upgrades for Series axles these days?

Loras BR

09-22-2007, 08:29 PM

A Mercedes-Toyota-Rover!!!

The perfect design and the perfect mechanic together... :bowdown:

Very nice plans!!!

Please, keep us updated!!!

4Rescue

09-23-2007, 12:15 PM

TeriAnn

09-23-2007, 03:14 PM

Call me crazy but I'm keeping drum brakes. Don't know what all the fuss is about disks. All they've ever done for me is get stones stuck in the calipers and scream going down the road. My 88" is still on drums and it stops like a dream. Bleed them properly and keep them adjusted and I think they're fine.

109 brakes are very different animals from 88 brakes. They work fine on the flats and quite good down hill, but ...

Those big brakes up front have both shoes set up as leading shoes. This means they brake very well in the forward direction and hardly at all in the rearwards direction. For practical purposes you have both front shoes and the leading shoe in the rear brake stopping you in the forward direction BUT only have the trailing shoe in the rear drum doing most all the stopping in the rearwards direction.

If you spend much time climbing 109s you will realize how poorly those 2 rear trailing shoes hold a nose up 109 in place. My total phobia of drop offs aside, the worst situation I can imagine for a stock brake 109 is having to come to a stop on a steep climb with a sharp turn and a cliff behind you.

What a front disc brake conversion will do is give your 109 front brakes that work just as well in the rear direction as in the front direction (like a stock brake 88).

I think stock 109 brakes are just fine for open field savanna type traveling but I suspect that you may have other things in mind. Go ahead and stay with the drums for a while. They work fine in most situations. If you need to come to a stop in a steep nose up situation go immediately into reverse gear then hold the vehicle in place. Then if it starts rolling rearwards you can have an in gear controlled rearwards descent.

Your rig, your choice. Might be best if you log hours on the stock brakes then determine if you actually need good rearward braking.

Mercedesrover

09-24-2007, 12:58 AM

First of all, I don’t really think there is a good alternative disk brake conversion for the Series truck yet. I don’t even think Rocky Mountain is doing them anymore. At best these systems are proprietary and having trouble in the bush means contacting the maker and having parts shipped in at crazy overnight costs, if you can get ‘hold of them at all.

Second, the type of failure most likely to occur in a disc brake system will stop your truck dead. With the dust and mud and crud we’re subjecting them to a stuck piston is only a matter of time, and a stuck piston stops your truck. At best you’ve got a rebuild kit and a hone with you and you can rebuild them on the trail. The biggest problem you can have with a drum brake system is a leaky wheel cylinder, remedied with a cheap replacement part no larger than a roll of quarters that you’ve brought along, or at worst, replacing fluid until you’re able to find a replacement part. With my 88” I carry two wheel cylinders, which cover all four corners, on the 109 I’ll have to carry three. For the price and size of lunch I can carry the replacement parts for the most likely brake failure I will encounter.

We’ve also go the handbrake on these trucks that when adjusted and used properly can be a very effective tool off-roading. It frees up both feet to run the clutch and foot-feed and when working well is able to hold a fully laden truck either up hill or down.

If someone comes up with a disk system for these trucks that uses a slide on rotor and a common double piston, non-slide caliper I may consider it. Until then I’ll stick with my drums. Call me grandpa.

Funrover

09-24-2007, 04:01 AM

AWSOME!!!! I can't wait till this is done!!!!

gjackson

09-24-2007, 04:04 AM

Jim,

Very cool project! I'm very interested to know how the Merc will pull that 109.

cheers

TeriAnn

09-24-2007, 05:29 AM

First of all, I don’t really think there is a good alternative disk brake conversion for the Series truck yet. I don’t even think Rocky Mountain is doing them anymore.

I believe they do but they have never been on the Rocky Mountain web site. Rocky Mountain is just a distributor of the conversion.

At best these systems are proprietary and having trouble in the bush means contacting the maker and having parts shipped in at crazy overnight costs, if you can get ‘hold of them at all.

Paul Heystee's conversion is based upon the vented disc brakes that comes standard on the Spanish built Santana PS-10. The PS-10 is basically a Land Rover clone so is in the same weight range as a Series LR. This is a 2 piston vented disk brake system. The Santana PS-10 brake components are the same as used on the Mercedes MB100 van which was never imported into the United States. so yes you would have to import parts from Europe.

The ones on my Land Rover are made by Torrel Industries. This 11 inch vented brake kit uses common (North America) AC Delco dual piston calipers, pads and rubber hoses. The GM rotor does require machining to fit. So it does have a custom consumable. I can probably source new calipers, pads and hoses off the shelf in any North American auto parts store. Rotors would take more time.

Timm Cooper's conversion is back on the market with a new batch of castings. Timm's conversion uses standard off the shelf Defender/ Range Rover Classic disk brake calipers and rotors. These are 11-3/4 inch dia rotors with 4 piston calipers.

Zeus will not sell their conversion to anyone with a US address. It is a 4 piston vented system and other than that I really don't know anything about them.

I will not insinuate that you are making a poor choice, just a different choice than I did. We all drive different rigs different places in different ways and have different reliability & safety concerns. There are many very good choices, all with very good reasons. I think you do dynamite component engineering and am following your 617 conversion with awe.

Best of luck on your project!

Mercedesrover

09-24-2007, 12:13 PM

TeriAnn

09-24-2007, 03:19 PM

I haven’t seen Timm’s setup yet but it sounds the most promising. If it’s as simple as longer wheel studs, a bracket for the caliper and un-modified rotors it may be something worth looking into. I’ve heard Timm is a hard guy to get ‘hold of and he seems to disappear from time to time. If his only custom parts are non-expendables it’s not such a big deal.

Timm doesn't do email or web sites and he does move from time to time. Locating him in a new location is old school word of mouth.

Timm's conversion consists of a custom hub and a custom cast swivel housing that retains all the stock bearings, steering bits & swivel ball.

Here are 2 pictures of the swivel housing:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/TimmBrakeHub1.jpg

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/TimmBrakeHousing2.jpg

All the brake bits are standard off the shelf US spec parts for Defender, Range Rover Classic & Disco I.

Drums are fine
Drums are fine
Drums are fine

I completely agree, as long at you are not trying to hold a 109 stationary in a steep nose up attitude. I find that I'm not quite strong enough to keep the 109 in place very long holding on by just the two rear trailing brake shoes. Even with LR power brakes.

Mercedesrover

09-24-2007, 04:37 PM

Wow, those sure are purty.

Stop it Teriann, stop it!

(How much were they?)

jim

dieselcruiserhead

09-24-2007, 04:38 PM

It is true that drums can be equally powerful. My issue with them particularly in front applications is the constant maintenance required. Up through '74 all Land Cruisers were 4 wheel drum too and I only had one that did it well even, despite constant maintenance. If I replaced everything on the troublesome trucks it would have been fine, but it is so easy to switch to disks on Land Cruisers, I've probably done it a half dozen times now easily...

With drums, I also always hated working on them, sometimes too tight an area and a slightly annoying setup with the springs (my experience with these is from Toyotas). With disks, I have never had a caliper leak or blow ever with the Toyota designs and I have put them through hell or close to it. With drums, I have lost significant braking with 4 wheel drums in rain and mud and other moisture, particularly back east.

Teriann's conversion is pretty good, the big thing is it is pretty hard to F-up a rotor if you are mildly as dilligent with maintenance as have to be with drums. The big issues/consumables would be if a caliper did go out and I really like Teri-Ann's setup for this because of the availability. They also make two versions of each caliper, one with a cable e brake option. It is a common conversion, using machining, and this same type of setup is used for Toyotas in the rear too. Very few people report complaints from it.

If I were to create a setup, this certainly would be a good, cheap, and readily available may to manufacture the kit. Then you would have to have the rotors machined but not that hard or expensive. I can refer a local supplier here in Salt Lake City that is amazingly cheap on all disk rotors (GM and other). They sell for $25 retail what most parts shops big and little sell for $55-65 or more and the exact same rotors.. I bought a set of Brembo performance rotors for $21 for my Saab last winter. They offered two options, the cheap generic for this price or the "Brembo Performance Disks" for $151. So I bought the cheap. And I opened the box, and low and behold they are the same thing in two different boxes from two manufacturers. They don't even bother to make a cheap, they are the same rotor :)

I just went through this with what I consider to be a good comparison with my MTB. I have been using old rim brakes for almost too long and my hands started hurting on the long descents off the mountain at the end of the day from the reduced braking ability. But I resisted because they do stop very well particular with regular adjustment (on a bike its much easier). Similar issues actually, close but not the same power, worse affects with moisture. But I did finally get some disks (through some tradeout, probably never would have bought I figure), and it is night and day. They are a little heavier but on any bike that does any significant descents, I will never not use disks again...

TeriAnn

09-24-2007, 07:27 PM

Wow, those sure are purty.

Stop it Teriann, stop it!
(How much were they?)

$1500. I don't know if it is for just the castings or everything. You would have to ask.

From Mark Pinkington:
"The swivel hubs conversion kit for the front axle is $1500 and the rear
is $500. Please contact me on flyers2@sbcglobal.net
<mailto:flyers2@sbcglobal.net> for more information or if you want to
order a set."

I got my Torrel Industries disc brake upgrade then the US dollar was worth more so it is likely the price has gone up. But I think I paid $1200 for delivery to my door and the kit had every part I needed for the conversion.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/DiscKit.jpg
This is everything that came with my kit. Those steel adapters at the bottom bolt on where the drum brake back plates go. Those adapter plates and the slightly longer hubs are the only special parts and neither would be considered consumables. If you damage one, a new replacement part would probably be way down on our list of concerns. All the other parts are either common AC Delco or Land Rover.

Here is the custom machined rotor:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/DiscRotor.jpg
As you can see the centre hole needs to be machined a lot larger and new holes drilled for the lugs. This is the single modified stock part.

Here's the finished conversion:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/DiscAssembled.jpg

Funrover

09-24-2007, 10:21 PM

THAT IS AWSOME!!!!! But I am curious... wouldn't it be just as easy to grab an axle from a RRC or DI? early 90's that have disc? or is there to much to convert?

seriessearcher

09-25-2007, 01:03 AM

Jim,

If you call WOO they do sell them when they get a hold of them. Seems Ray and his partner are enjoying retirement and not keeping up with demand much to their dismay. The replacement parts are all off the self AC Delco for wear and tear pieces. The custom bracket and hubs should not need replacing in my life time. So as long as you get a set you should be good to go for the long haul. I like the replacement parts sheet they send with the kit. I like them so far, but have not been able to put too many miles on them with kids, work, and life.

As for your choice with drums, you of all people should know your truck as you put it through 3000 mile plus journey's. Your trips are what this board is all about, so if you like them go with what you know.

I love seeing the build up and as well as all of your projects off of GnR as well.

TeriAnn

09-25-2007, 01:37 AM

THAT IS AWSOME!!!!! But I am curious... wouldn't it be just as easy to grab an axle from a RRC or DI? early 90's that have disc? or is there to much to convert?

Timm Cooper showed me Series & coiler swivel balls side by side. The coiler swivel ball assembly is a lot more fragile.

This is second hand as I've not tried it, but I've been told that the steering arms from a coiler try to take up the same space as the leaf springs. Coilers mount their steering arms lower than a Series does (Thats why they are always bending tie rods). I'm sure the steering can be reengineered. for a fit.

DCH109

09-25-2007, 02:37 AM

A little chop and weld to the upper aluminum pan

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/pan5.JPG

jim

In my search for something else i stumbled across this forum. Great place.
Then i saw this 109 build and thought hey I'm doing the same thing (your kit Jim) to a MB Turbo Diesel mated to a Series trans.

??? So Jim, What part of the upper Aluminum pan needs to be chopped and welded? And Nice job on your welding of the Steel pan, want to do another? :)

Dave.

Linus Tremaine

09-25-2007, 05:35 AM

Jim,
do you think, at this point in your project, that the 5 cylinder MB engine could be made to fit in a NADA truck without any mods to the bulkhead?

Perhaps by moving the engine and trans forward? I have a NADA dormobile and its pretty original. I would hate to cut it up.

Mercedesrover

09-25-2007, 10:32 AM

Funrover: The axle is wider on a coiler but with some cutting and welding it could be done. It has been done. I've often wondered if a coil swivel housing would fit a leafer swivel ball. I've never had the two side by side and I'm sure this has been tried before so I never pursued it. if it would work it would be an easy conversion though.

Seriessearcher: Yup, many miles on the drums in the 88 and never a problem, even heavily loaded. Disks are cool but I'll have enough money and thought tied up in this truck just doing what I'm doing. It's alway something I can do later if I'm not happy with the drums.

Dave: Drop me an email and I'll send you some pictures. It's a pretty easy chop and weld if you have a tig.

Linus: I'm using a stock NADA bulkhead on a Stage One frame. As you know that bulkhead is deeper to allow room for the 2.6 6 cyl engine. It's this depth that'll give me the extra room for the 5 cyl. The Stage One frame also has the first x-member 4-5 inches further forward than the Series frame and doesn't have the huge welded second x-member that the Series frame has and only a small bolt-in x-member further back. That gives me 6 feet of unobstructed frame length to play with. As long as I have the space between the bulkhead and the radiator (which I do) everything else will work. I did knock the inside corner out of the passenger side foot well when I welded it in to give me a little extra room for the turbo/exhaust. If you look at that picture of the bulkhead you'll see that. Except for that the bulkhead is stock.

jim

Mercedesrover

10-04-2007, 08:42 PM

I'm a bit hung-up right now waiting for tranny parts and for the frame to get galvanized. (The galvy shop had a breakdown and won't be up and running for another week or two) Decided I'd do a little work on the engine and get it painted. Got the oil pans on for good and things cleaned up and sprayed it today with Sem Rust Shield. Good engine paint...Sticks like glue and shines pretty well.

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/engine7.jpg

jim

seriessearcher

10-04-2007, 11:44 PM

I can't wait to see the updates as the frame gets back from the shop.

TeriAnn

10-05-2007, 03:14 PM

Grim Reaper

10-05-2007, 03:35 PM

Mercedesrover

10-05-2007, 08:33 PM

Any chance of a good detail picture of the right side of the assembled engine?

I'm still really curious about the right side modifications for clearance and how things now look in the frame/front propshaft area.

Thanks!

This thing won't be a rolling chassis for a couple months but I'll take a few then. I can post a picture of the oil pan now if you want to see one.

Grim: Yup, I spend my days in the the collision business and have two, 1 million BTU down-drafts among other toys. Nice to have a shop like this to work in. Also have a good buddy with a machine shop. :)

jim

Mercedesrover

10-23-2007, 09:38 PM

Back from the galvanize place with my new frame. Got there at 5:30am this morning, didn't leave until 12:30. Crazy place.

Anyway, I'm very happy with what they did and I can't wait to start bolting things to it.

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/newframe2.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/newframe3.jpg

jim

KevinNY

10-24-2007, 02:40 AM

That frame on a trailer looks kind of familiar.

I just love that paint booth. I want my truck in there bathed in a mist of Sandglow someday.

Mercedesrover

11-13-2007, 12:33 AM

dieselcruiserhead

11-13-2007, 03:17 AM

That's awesome... I plan to galvanize the frame on my cruiser, I can't wait to get to that stage...

DCH109

11-13-2007, 12:38 PM

Looking good Jim,

I have not touched mine in 3 weeks, but i did get the new Bulkhead last weekend so that has me stoked.

TeriAnn

11-13-2007, 01:18 PM

Spent that last couple of nights rebuilding the transmission for the 109. It's a Ford NP435 with a 6.68:1 first gear. It now has a Pangolin4x4 main shaft to mate to the Series transfer case as well as the adapter plate to bolt the two together.

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/np4351.jpg

Next it's on to the Ashcroft high-ratio transfer case....

jim

Almost like deja vu all over again!

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/T18AndAdapt.jpg
T-18 with special main shaft & adapter plate. 6.32:1 first gear.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/ahscroftKitjpg
Ashcroft high ratio kit as delivered directly from Ashcroft

If I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now I would have gone with the NP435 over the T-18 just because the shift pattern is tighter. The T-18's pattern is more touchy feely to find the correct gear.

What ring & pinion ratio are you going to use?

Mercedesrover

11-13-2007, 02:12 PM

That's Timm Cooper's adapter, right? Funny they look so similar, but I guess they would.

This truck is getting Toyota e-locker centers with 4:10 gears. I'm hoping they're not too tall. My 88" has 4:56 Toyota diffs and an overdrive, but it's only about 80hp. This motor is 125hp so I think I'll be ok. I'm expecting this truck to cruise down the highway at 70mph and still return 20mpg or better. Time will tell.

jim

TeriAnn

11-13-2007, 04:10 PM

That's Timm Cooper's adapter, right? Funny they look so similar, but I guess they would.

Yes, Timm made it. Near as I can tell the only difference between adapters is the mounting hole location & number for mounting to the gearbox. I too was struck by the similarity, but form follows function.

This truck is getting Toyota e-locker centers with 4:10 gears. I'm hoping they're not too tall.

With 4.7:1 R&P I'm 4.09:1 at the rear axle high range fourth. With 33 " tyres that puts my rig at 2680 RPM@ 65 MPH.

Your rig will be at 3.57:1 at the axle which would put you at 2434 RPM @ 65MPH with 32 inch dia tyres. It should allow good highway fuel mileage if your engine has enough torque to economically push that ratio in the hills.

Mercedesrover

11-13-2007, 05:10 PM

That should get me to around 2650 at 70mph...Just about what I'm hoping for. I'm still a little nervous about gearing and am putting a lot of faith in the extra 45hp this engine has. Worst-case scenario I pull the 4:56 diffs out of the 88", put them in the 109 and re-gear these to 4:88 and put them in the 88". Guess we'll see when I'm done!

jim

DCH109

11-13-2007, 05:57 PM

Reading this someting tells me i will end up changing my 109 gearing when i drop the MBTD in mine.

Mercedesrover

11-13-2007, 06:38 PM

Don't get too carried away. I'm worried the 4:10s will be a little tall for me. I think the original 4:70 gears will be just about right with a 5cyl turbo and an overdrive.

jim

Mercedesrover

11-29-2007, 12:07 AM

Well, I got the Mercedes/NP435 adapter all done and on the transmission. Waiting on a second clutch yoke so I can extend one and finalize the clutch release. I've already got a slave cylinder that will bolt directly to the side of the tranny. Nice and tight and won't take up any room.

Tranny is rebuilt with a Pangolin4x4 adapter plate and new mainshaft.

Ashcroft high-ratio box rebuilt, together and on the back of the tranny. All new bearings, seals, etc. Just waiting for a Rocky Mountain lower pan and to paint the e-brake backer and drum tomorrow and that will be done too.

The bellhousing/tranny/adapter is only 16 3/4" inches long which is only 1/2" longer than the Rover bellhousing and tranny. Overall length from the bellhousing to the back of the e-brake drum is 27 1/2". Again, only 1/2" longer than a standard Series tranny/t-case. A nice tight package that will fit in an 88" with no trouble. Might have to run this tranny in my 88" if this is as nice as I'm hoping.

Anyway, it's not painted yet but here are some pictures from tonight. Not sure if I'll paint the whole mess or just the transmission. Whattaya all think?

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/tranny1.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/tranny2.jpg

I'll have the re-balanced flywheel back in the morning and hope to have this whole mess bolted to the back of the engine by next weekend. Wish me luck.

Jim

Alaska Mike

11-29-2007, 12:39 AM

I'd paint the iron part of the tranny with some Extend (or other Rust converter) and topcoat it with whatever gloss paint you like. The rest of the parts I'd leave as they are. I don't think galvanic corrosion is going to do much in our lifetime to those parts.

I picked up my Spicer 18 transfercase down in Virginia, disassembled, cleaned, and painted it, then shipped it up here in two boxes (1 case, 1 guts). It should be here in a few days, and then I'll get to rebuilding it and adapting it to a SM465 with a Novak adapter. I expect that my finished product will be more or less the same length as yours, although there may be some differences in bellhousing lengths since I'm using a stock GM 151 bellhousing. I have a few inches to play with in the 88, so I'm not sweating it too much just yet. I can always move the engine forward a little and rework the radiator mounts if needed.

Thanks for the pictures. You've added a little motivation to my project.

TeriAnn

11-29-2007, 05:09 AM

I've already got a slave cylinder that will bolt directly to the side of the tranny. Nice and tight and won't take up any room.

Mine uses a stock Series III clutch master and Series IIA slave cylinder, stock IIA clutch rod, & end connector and stock clutch hydraulic hose. The mounting bracket is a reworked SIIA slave cylinder mounting bracket.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/SlaveHolder.jpeg

Mercedesrover

11-29-2007, 10:41 AM

With all due respect, TeriAnn, did you cut off the end of the clutch fork and weld the slave pin to it? Maybe I'm not seeing that photo right.

TeriAnn

11-29-2007, 03:08 PM

With all due respect, TeriAnn, did you cut off the end of the clutch fork and weld the slave pin to it? Maybe I'm not seeing that photo right.

Timm Cooper did it. He cut off the end, welded on some flat stock and drilled a hole for the stock LR linkage pin to fit through. Everything is stock LR from the pin forward (The SIIA clutch mount bracket was reworked) and stock Ford from the arm inwards. The stock Ford clutch releases a little over half way through the pedal travel and since the slave cylinder sits horizontally it is a lot easier to bleed.

In retrospect I should have taken more pictures at the time and replaced my light meter's battery before documenting the rebuild.

I'm eagerly awaiting for your report on fitting the engine, gearbox and bulkhead.

Mercedesrover

11-29-2007, 06:37 PM

Don't know Timm or his work but he's been at this Land Rover stuff a lot longer than I have. I'm sure it's fine...Just looks a little crude.

I was hoping to have the engine/tranny/transfer case together tomorrow but as it usually goes Mercedes sent me the wrong clutch yoke today so it'll have to wait until next week. I had the flywheels checked for balance yesterday and both turned out to be neutral, so that's a bonus. I have to build a rack with casters to drop the whole mess on too. Hopefully by the middle of the week. I'll post pictures when it happens.

jim

Mercedesrover

12-09-2007, 12:07 AM

Besides forgetting the bolts I needed at home and having so scrounge up bolts and washers to bring the motor and tranny together until I remember the right ones, it was a successful day and everything went well. Still have to mount the slave cylinder and build a bracket for the high/low lever but the tricky stuff is done. Looks like it was all meant to be together!

Jim

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/together1.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/together2.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/together3.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/together4.jpg

Martyn

12-09-2007, 12:44 AM

Jim

The engine and transmission looks like an art piece, brilliant!

It's all your fault I've started looking at Series Rovers and diesel Mercedes with plans in mind.

TeriAnn

12-09-2007, 06:01 PM

Mercedesrover

12-09-2007, 09:43 PM

Wow, Looks really good so far! I have a couple questions & a suggestion:

How is the front propshaft to starter motor & bell housing flange HORIZONTAL clearance look? Vertical clearance has a way of changing as you exercise the suspension.

What are you going to use as a bottom pivot mount for the hi-lo shift leaver?

Suggestion - Sometime after you have the engine & gearbox mounted on a rolling chassis, put the front of the chassis on a good jack, remove a bolt off the front shackles and slowly lower the frame to see if the front axle pumpkin could possibly strike the oil pan under full upward articulation. If it is close or strikes, add length to the axle stops to insure the two will never meet. I'm a little worried about clearance for your front oil pan.

I thought the oil pan on my 302 was well clear of the front pumpkin until one day after a trip I found a one inch by one inch by one inch dent in the front right corner of my oil pan.

The front propshaft clearance looks fine. This bellhousing has the same width as the conversion I do with the Rover tranny so I'm set there. If you see the plate between the engine and bellhousing, that plate stays with the Rover tranny too and is the widest part of the engine/tranny.

The hi/lo pivot will be a simple plate bolted to the tranny adapter with a tongue on the backside for the lever to bolt to. I'll shoot a picture when it's done. What did you do there, TeriAnn?

Jim

TeriAnn

12-10-2007, 03:39 AM

The hi/lo pivot will be a simple plate bolted to the tranny adapter with a tongue on the backside for the lever to bolt to. I'll shoot a picture when it's done. What did you do there, TeriAnn?

I think you mean what did Timm do. The T-18 has a side plate on the right side held in place with a ring of bolts, one of which was in the right place for a hi-lo lever bottom mount. Timm basically welded the heads of 2 bolts together so there was a threaded stud to mount the bottom of the shifter to.

I had the transfer case off just a couple months ago because the bolts holding the adapter to the gearbox had worked themselves loose. I didn't think to take pictures at the time. The hi-lo shifter bottom point is mounted loose on the factory mount allowing it to wobble (which is why that anti rattle spring exists on the ball). If the bottom mount is too rigid, the transfer case has a tendency to pop out of gear on occasion during compression. I had been having the problem. I ground down the width of the shaft bottom mounting point to narrow it for a less rigid mount. Hopefully that was enough. If it still pops out I take some more off to see if it helps. I'm using a nyloc nut threaded loose with the added space. One possibility in reserve is a flat washer & cotter pin instead of the thick nylock nut for even more clearance.

I suggest two tongues with lots of space between like the factory used.

One thing I asked Timm to do was put a bend in the shaft just above the ball to point the leaver more to the the rear. In the past I would push the lever up against the tunnel upholstery and wonder if the high range was completely engaged. Bent back a little there is space between the lever and the upholstery when high range is completely engaged.

Another thing. The wider T-18 required a wider tunnel (and slightly higher) which put the yellow 4WD push lever on the top of the tunnel instead of on the side near the top. When Timm was finished I had problems keeping the lever down in high range 4WD and unknowingly practiced working through obstacles in 2WD wondering why I was having such a hard time. After looking at the problem closely I noticed there was no space between between the spring loops. I cut a section off the spring and it has worked fine since then.

The Devil is in the details.

TeriAnn

12-20-2007, 12:26 AM

Any updates?:safari-rig:

Mercedesrover

12-20-2007, 10:43 AM

Got the slave mounted and the correct bolts in the bell housing. That's about it.

http://seriestrek.com/109/slave.JPG

I know, the bleeder is on the bottom. It's the only one I could find that was the right dimensions that I wanted. I'll bleed it backwards.

I still have to make the high-low pivot but besides that the engine/tranny/T-case is about done. Some little things here and there but for the most part ready to go.

I'll start on the axles next week. The diffs are here and shafts are on the way. I need to order new swivel balls, bearings, etc. next week too.

Stay tuned!

Jim

TeriAnn

12-20-2007, 02:06 PM

Got the slave mounted and the correct bolts in the bell housing. That's about it.

http://seriestrek.com/109/slave.JPG

I mostly asked for an update because the thread dropped to the second page :) I realize sometimes getting the design right can take some time.

The clutch release leaver operates in the opposite direction of any one I have ever seen. Is that a Mercedes thing?

Did you drill & thread holes in the side of the gearbox case to mount the slave cylinder? It is a really clean instillation.

Mercedesrover

12-20-2007, 03:13 PM

The clutch release leaver operates in the opposite direction of any one I have ever seen. Is that a Mercedes thing?

Did you drill & thread holes in the side of the gearbox case to mount the slave cylinder? It is a really clean instillation.

Yup, the pivot is on the opposite side of the bearing instead of being between the slave and bearing like most clutches. Makes for a longer throw but nothing to serious.

The tranny case is drilled and taped to 3/8"-24 and hardened cap-screws threaded in from the inside with Loctite. Stainless nuts and lock-washers on the outside. Thanks!

Jim

nickw

12-20-2007, 08:00 PM

Yup, the pivot is on the opposite side of the bearing instead of being between the slave and bearing like most clutches. Makes for a longer throw but nothing to serious.

The tranny case is drilled and taped to 3/8"-24 and hardened cap-screws threaded in from the inside with Loctite. Stainless nuts and lock-washers on the outside. Thanks!

Jim

I have been following this thread and your webpage for quite some time, very nice! I have been very impressed with your approach and work quality, professional on both accounts.

I think you made the right decision on engine choice, one of the few (if not the only) domestic diesels that are A)reliable B)get good mpg and C)can actually rev. over 3K so you can use a 4-sp tranny. Parts availability is what really kills the foreign diesels in my mind.

I have been waiting patiently for an adapter that mates the OM617 to Cruiser 4-sp promised by 4x4labs.com. Breath is not being held though-

Again, keep up the good work-

Mercedesrover

12-20-2007, 08:21 PM

I have been waiting patiently for an adapter that mates the OM617 to Cruiser 4-sp promised by 4x4labs.com. Breath is not being held though

When hell freezes over! :)

Those dudes have been promising that adapter for 10 years. Is their website still up?

I came this close to bolting a H55F tranny to the back of this engine. I'm sure it could be done and very easily....Just need to have a tranny in front of me for some measurements. No more difficult than doing what I did with the NP435 and really, I'm surprised nobody has done this yet.

Anyway, thanks for the compliments. I really love these diesels and they just make sense for a conversion in the US. They're cheap if not free, parts are cheap and easy and they last forever. What else could you ask for?

Jim

Edit: Did I really say there instead of their? What's the matter with me?

JPFreek1

12-20-2007, 08:51 PM

What an awesome build! Congrats and best of luck. :clapsmile

Martyn

12-20-2007, 09:02 PM

I have been following this thread and your webpage for quite some time, very nice! I have been very impressed with your approach and work quality, professional on both accounts.

I think you made the right decision on engine choice, one of the few (if not the only) domestic diesels that are A)reliable B)get good mpg and C)can actually rev. over 3K so you can use a 4-sp tranny. Parts availability is what really kills the foreign diesels in my mind.

I have been waiting patiently for an adapter that mates the OM617 to Cruiser 4-sp promised by 4x4labs.com. Breath is not being held though-

Again, keep up the good work-

I talked to Luke at 4X4 Labs last week. He is in the final stages for his adapters. Should have something early next year.

I know from experience it's hard to run a company that pays it bills where R&D on new products is only one small part of the business. I think we'd all like to have a full time R&D department but it usually get relegated to doing what you can when you can.

Alaska Mike

12-20-2007, 10:12 PM

Depending on the clearance issues, I would have built out a bracket from the bellhousing or transmission to hold the slave cylinder in the right orientation, but your installation looks cleaner and probably will be fine.

I'm very impressed and inspired to get wrenching, despite it being -4F outside and 43F in the garage.

Mercedesrover

12-20-2007, 10:14 PM

I talked to Luke at 4X4 Labs last week. He is in the final stages for his adapters. Should have something early next year.

Seems like there's really a demand for this and I don't understand what the trouble is. Ship me an H41 or an H55F and I'll have a bell housing on the front of it in a week. I don't know the guy and I'm not into Toyota stuff but if I were I'd be all over it.

jim

ChuckB

12-20-2007, 11:26 PM

I talked to Luke at 4X4 Labs last week. He is in the final stages for his adapters. Should have something early next year.

That's the best news I've heard in a while. That would be my number one swap into my 55!!

Jim,

If it doesn't work out with 4x4Labs, give me some time and I may be giving you a call about an H41/2 or H55.

By the way, this build is awesome!!!

nickw

12-20-2007, 11:29 PM

Seems like there's really a demand for this and I don't understand what the trouble is. Ship me an H41 or an H55F and I'll have a bell housing on the front of it in a week. I don't know the guy and I'm not into Toyota stuff but if I were I'd be all over it.

jim

I couldnt agree more. There is always lots of talk over at IH8mud and misc. toyota forums about adaption of the OM motors to Toyota Trannys. I have personally though about putting up some R&D $$ with a local machine shop and then selling them.

I got really excited when I heard you were going to use the H55 a year or so ago, but you had to go and change that up on us! Damn...

I spoke to Luke at 4x4 as well, about a month ago, he said it just needs to be bolted up. He must have 50 guys waiting on it from all the talk around the various boards.

ChuckB

12-20-2007, 11:30 PM

I couldnt agree more. There is always lots of talk over at IH8mud and misc. toyota forums about adaption of the OM motors to Toyota Trannys. I have personally though about putting up some R&D $$ with a local machine shop and then selling them.

I got really excited when I heard you were going to use the H55 a year or so ago, but you had to go and change that up on us! Damn...

I spoke to Luke at 4x4 as well, about a month ago, he said it just needs to be bolted up. He must have 50 guys waiting on it from all the talk around the various boards.

Sounds like about 53 or 54 now :wings:

nickw

12-20-2007, 11:31 PM

That's the best news I've hear in a while. That would be my number one swap into my 55!!

Jim,

If it doesn't work out with 4x4Labs, give me some time and I may be giving you a call about an H41/2 or H55.

By the way, this build is awesome!!!

Make that two phone calls if 4x4Labs drops the ball-

RHINO

12-26-2007, 02:18 AM

I spoke to Luke at 4x4 as well, about a month ago, he said it just needs to be bolted up. He must have 50 guys waiting on it from all the talk around the various boards.

not to hijack,, this thread is a great read so far, always interested in diesel swaps. but i am at least one guy who got bored waiting for luke and forged my own ground dropping an izuzu 4BD1T into my FJ55, i was on board with the OM617 but my gosh i just got tired waiting and wanted a diesel in my pig,,, i'll tell you all that it was a great decision and i absolutely love it !!

nickw

12-27-2007, 04:31 PM

not to hijack,, this thread is a great read so far, always interested in diesel swaps. but i am at least one guy who got bored waiting for luke and forged my own ground dropping an izuzu 4BD1T into my FJ55, i was on board with the OM617 but my gosh i just got tired waiting and wanted a diesel in my pig,,, i'll tell you all that it was a great decision and i absolutely love it !!

You have a thread going over on IH8mud.com right? If so, I have been following that closely-

My problem is I want to retain my 4-sp tranny, which pretty much rules out the 4BD1/2. Although, based purely on numbers, you might be able to make it work. With 3.73 gears and 33" tires I would be pushin 2300 RPM at 60 mph. Seems a little on the high side for that motor, but would be OK for non highway, country road type driving.

You used a R151 right? That would be a sweet setup in a 40-

RHINO

12-29-2007, 03:39 PM

yes thats me,,,,i was on the fence with that tranny and i have an H55 in the shed just waiting. after driving mine around so much now i dont think 2300 would be that bad. but the merc would be a better engine for the higher rpm 4 speed tranny.

Yorker

01-05-2008, 06:06 PM

Edit: Did I really say there instead of their? What's the matter with me?

It is the internet- I could write AND spell before I started using the internet and visiting boards...

It looks really good so far- I can't wait to have you finish this- I really want to know how this works on the road.:)

My brother was talking about puting a Diesel in his FJ55 project... I'll steer him to this thread.

Mercedesrover

01-05-2008, 06:56 PM

Thanks Matt. Things had slowed a bit for the holidays but with them over I should be back at it. With the engine/tranny/t-case together and ready I'll start working on the axles. The housings are apart, shafts are here and I've just to order the swivels, brakes, bearing, etc. to get them together. I'll start cutting and welding on the housings this week and will post some new photos in a few days.

Still plan on having a rolling chassis by late winter or early spring. Time will tell.

Yorker

01-05-2008, 07:24 PM

Did you decide what to do about brakes? Drums or discs?

That 109 you got in Binghamton just had Rover diffs F+R right? No Sals?

Mercedesrover

01-05-2008, 08:12 PM

Did you decide what to do about brakes? Drums or discs?

That 109 you got in Binghamton just had Rover diffs F+R right? No Sals?

I'm sticking with the drums. It's a NADA 2.6 I started with so it has the same 3" drums as the Stage One. They're a known quantity and I feel they're just fine for my needs.

Yes, this truck has Rover style diffs front and rear and will get the same 30-spline/Toyota E-lockers set-up as the 88" only this truck is getting 4:10 gears. With the Ashcroft HR T-case and no overdrive I'm expecting good highway gearing and with the 6:68 first-gear NP435 it should be great off-road too.

Yorker

01-05-2008, 10:45 PM

Well those drum brakes are the best LR made so the drums will probably be fine for you, if not I guess you could always play with different boosters too. The only place I've seen them to be a problem is when offroading when trying to hold on an incline- particularly when you stall and lose vacuum. As long as you have a good parking brake and are aware of the issue you'll be ok. It is too bad there aren't as many disc brake options available for LRs as there are for TLCs. http://www.ih8mud.com/cruisertech.php

I guess I'm going to end up ditching the Rover axles entirely and use FJ60 ones if I can get a set, I already swapped off the rear Sals so I am kind of committed to that now anyway. ;)

Hey do you think you could fab a MB diesel adapter for a HF42?

Mercedesrover

01-06-2008, 02:13 AM

Hey do you think you could fab a MB diesel adapter for a HF42?

Sure I could. Do you have a HF42 out of a truck and in your hands?
Are they the same dimensions as the HF55?

jim

Yorker

01-06-2008, 02:36 AM

Sure I could. Do you have a HF42 out of a truck and in your hands?
Are they the same dimensions as the HF55?

jim

It isn't out yet but it may be soon.

I think they are but I am not 100% sure, I'm not really up on TLC trannys- I think the popular swap with FJ60s withthe h42f is the h55f and I remember reading it "dropped" in? Where is Dieselcruiserhead? He'd know for sure.

I'll go see what I can find out about it on Ih8mud...

ChuckB

01-06-2008, 07:46 AM

It isn't out yet but it may be soon.

I think they are but I am not 100% sure, I'm not really up on TLC trannys- I think the popular swap with FJ60s withthe h42f is the h55f and I remember reading it "dropped" in? Where is Dieselcruiserhead? He'd know for sure.

I'll go see what I can find out about it on Ih8mud...

Its a straight drop in for the '85+ FJ60's. Something about a spacer on '84 and older, I used to know this but its been awhile...

Mercedesrover

01-06-2008, 08:33 PM

I've got a couple of these bellhousings left and have offered to build this for the Toyota guys, but interest seems to end at the checkbook. That's probably why the guys at 4X4Labs haven't bothered yet either.

Not sure what you're building these days Matt, but if it's something I can help you with, drop me a note. You're pretty close and it would be easy to get something together.

Jim

Mercedesrover

01-08-2008, 08:18 PM

Alright, the holidays are over and enough screwin' around. Time to get some work done.

Diffs are apart. Original stud holes are welded up and ground down. That surface also has to be notched for the locking mechanism. I also cut the pan off and will weld new ones with check-plugs. No, I'm not going to sewer-cap these diffs. I probably should but I didn't on the last set I did either.

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff1.jpg

The axles shafts are almost ready too. Just need to drill the flange holes and mount the spacer ring. U-joints need to be installed too! The diffs are here and all the rest of the axle pieces are on the way from George at RDS. (brakes, bearings, seals, swivel balls, etc.) A great guy, that George!

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff2.jpg

Anyway, look for more progress over the next week or so. I should be able to get these together pretty quick.

jim

Yorker

01-09-2008, 12:34 AM

Jim-

I sent you an email. I know what you are talking about when it comes to people pulling out checkbooks...

Mercedesrover

01-15-2008, 09:14 PM

One done, one to go. Both will get paint when they're all together.

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff3.jpg

Mercedesrover

01-22-2008, 08:32 PM

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff4.jpg

Alaska Mike

01-22-2008, 11:00 PM

Are you going to replace the breathers with a remote style?

Mercedesrover

01-23-2008, 01:14 AM

Are you going to replace the breathers with a remote style?

Yup. I'll screw nipples into the housings and run clear plastic pipe up to the top of the bulkhead along with the transfer case port. Did the same thing on my 88". The old breathers are in there just to keep the dust out for now.

jim

Maine 110

01-23-2008, 12:27 PM

Jim what are you using for a paint system on your axles? I see you are not blasting the cases, it appears you are wire brushing cleaning and painting?

Jesse Ware

Mercedesrover

01-23-2008, 01:23 PM

I use SEM Rust Shield in gloss black (part # 38061) and SEM hardener (part # 38008). It's harder and glossier than POR-15 and stands up better too. Because it's hardened it is far more resistant to chemicals than POR too.

No real need to sandblast unless they're really bad. Wire wheel on a grinder, pressure wash with good soap, wash down with brake cleaner and you're good to go. And use a brush...No need to spray axle housings. This is the same way I did my last set of axles 4 years ago and they're still perfect. Well, except where they got sandblasted from 1100 miles on gravel roads up in James Bay this past summer!

jim

Maine 110

01-23-2008, 06:19 PM

Thanks Jim. I can get SEM through my local auto paint shop. I never liked POR myself, It always seemed to get a chip which would rust then the whole thing would peel off like bad powdercoat.

Jesse

Monkeyboy

01-23-2008, 07:29 PM

Excellent information, thanks Jim!

Now, I'm sure I've got the wrong vocabulary ... since this paint uses a hardner, that means its "catalyzed" (?) and I'll toss the brush when I'm done, right?

Thanks Again,

KAA

Mercedesrover

01-23-2008, 07:56 PM

since this paint uses a hardner, that means its "catalyzed" (?) and I'll toss the brush when I'm done, right?

Yup, it's catalyzed. But wash the brush out and use it again. Don't be wasteful!

jim

Mercedesrover

02-08-2008, 10:40 AM

Slow but sure, the front diff is now done.

For a recap: 2.6 109 front axle with 3" brakes, 4:10 ratio Toyota e-locker differential, 30-spline inner shafts, 24-spline outer shafts.

Button up the rear in the next couple of days and I can start putting the chassis together!

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff5.jpg

Overland Hadley

02-08-2008, 01:50 PM

A little late here, but I just read through this thread.

What a great build, will be fun to watch the progress.

Good luck, and keep up the good work.

seriessearcher

02-08-2008, 03:56 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the paint info, I was wondering about that. I will use the same on my 109.

Hopefully I will see some progress in the coming weeks.

Mercedesrover

02-20-2008, 08:56 PM

Rear diff is done...Finally! Gotta get moving on this project.

I need to paint the springs and then the frame will come inside to start coming together.

Anyway, here are a couple pics.

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff6.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/diff7.jpg

Mercedesrover

02-28-2008, 09:31 PM

Some more progress in the past couple days. Got what amounts to a rolling chassis. Engine, drive shafts and probably exhaust are next. I was trying to get the motor in by March 1st but I guess I'm going to miss that.

Anyway, pictures from tonight:

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis1.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis2.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis3.jpg

viatierra

02-28-2008, 10:28 PM

I love watching this 109 come together! Several years ago a neighbor was going through this same type of first class build. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed stopping by each week to see the progress.

Looking forward to reading more!
:26_7_2:

MuddyMudskipper

02-28-2008, 11:38 PM

That is awesome.:lurk:

flyingwil

02-29-2008, 12:50 AM

Nice progress... I haven't checked in in a while... It's looking really good!

p1michaud

02-29-2008, 01:41 PM

Just scanned through this build up. I like it, great work and keep it up!

JohnC

02-29-2008, 03:43 PM

Nice work Jim!

Where did you get the frame re-galvanized? I need to get some parts galvanized and don't know anyone in my area that does it.

Thanks.

revor

02-29-2008, 06:03 PM

Jim!

NICE WORK!!!

24HOURSOFNEVADA

02-29-2008, 06:13 PM

That looks great. I can't wait to see more.

TeriAnn

02-29-2008, 06:15 PM

DCH109

02-29-2008, 06:51 PM

Looking good Jim,

Teriann i think he did the test fitting pic on the first page.

Keep us posted.
My build is about to start this weekend.

Mercedesrover

02-29-2008, 11:57 PM

What's going on with that unique front cross member?

Is the stock looking part of the front cross member in the stock 109 frame front to rear location?

It appears that you have the frame engine mounts in place. How did you do that without trial fits?

New pictures beget new questions

It's a Stage-One frame, TeriAnn. The front x-member is further forward than in a standard Series frame. You'll also notice the absence of the huge welded second x-member that you'll find in a Series frame. These two things together leave lots of room for goofy engine and tranny combos. Guess that's why Rover built this frame like this to begin with!

Yup, the engine was sitting in there to locate the engine mounts before re-galvanizing, thought the tranny wasn't on it at that time. Hope to set the whole lump in there Monday night. I still need to fabricate a x-member underneath the tranny for which I welded a couple threaded plates to the bottom of the frame. Should be pretty straight forward.

jim

Mercedesrover

03-03-2008, 09:53 PM

Set the motor/tranny/t-case today. Steering box too.

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis5.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis6.jpg

Alaska Mike

03-03-2008, 11:43 PM

TeriAnn

03-04-2008, 12:55 AM

I'm curious about the frame beefing you did for your power steering. How thick was the plate you used? Hoe did you decide on the box positioning? Do the bolts run all the way through the frame, and if so, did you use some sort of tube spacer to keep the frame from compressing? As soon as my frame arrives I'm looking at the same mod, so any help you can give me would be appreciated.

Mine has a 3/8ths inch steel plate & bolts going all the way through. I know of another with a half inch plate and the holes threaded.

Pictures & story here (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/PowerSteering.htm)

I understand that Timm Cooper switched from using Scout II power steering boxes to Range rover III boxes. He believe the Rangies finally are using a strong power steering box.

Jim,

Thats the first Stage I frame I've seen. How did they strengthen it to eliminate the under bulkhead cross member?

Could the engine swap work with the under the bulkhead cross member in place?

Any chance of detail shots looking down between the right side of the engine and frame, including one showing clearance of the transfercase front section? I'd like to oil pan to diff clearance if you don't mind taking a bunch of pictures.

Thanks

gordo

03-04-2008, 12:55 AM

Awesome truck. Im building a series hybrid myself but not to that level. Top notch work. Gordo

dieselcruiserhead

03-04-2008, 01:16 AM

Looking gorgeous...

Mercedesrover

03-04-2008, 01:20 AM

I'm curious about the frame beefing you did for your power steering. How thick was the plate you used? Hoe did you decide on the box positioning? Do the bolts run all the way through the frame, and if so, did you use some sort of tube spacer to keep the frame from compressing? As soon as my frame arrives I'm looking at the same mod, so any help you can give me would be appreciated.

I welded 3/8" plate on both the inside and outside of the frame with 9/16" ID steel pipe as sleeves all the way through the frame and welded to the reinforcement plates. Should be strong enough! I used 1/2" grade-8 bolts all the way through the frame with nylock nuts on the ouside.

The box is positioned the same as it is in my 88". I used the same box in that truck, though attached a bit differently. It's been there for 4 years now and all is well. An upgrade well worth doing.

If you need any help or some close-up photos, let me know. I'm glad to do what I can for you.

jim

Mercedesrover

03-04-2008, 01:25 AM

Jim,

Thats the first Stage I frame I've seen. How did they strengthen it to eliminate the under bulkhead cross member?

Could the engine swap work with the under the bulkhead cross member in place?

Any chance of detail shots looking down between the right side of the engine and frame, including one showing clearance of the transfercase front section? I'd like to oil pan to diff clearance if you don't mind taking a bunch of pictures.

Thanks

There is a small bolt-in x-member under the bell housing that I'll be able to retain in this truck. As far as an original Stage-one, that's all there is. I've also welded two threaded plates to the bottom of the frame that I will bolt a fabricated x-member to and use to mount the two transfer case mounts. That should help add some strength.

Whether this swap would work with a standard Series frame, I couldn't tell you yet. When it's done I can compare with my 88" and see if there's room. I'd expect trouble with that second welded x-member.

I'll take some more pictures of the frame/engine and post them tomorrow. Lots of room between the diff and oil pan! That's good news.

jim

findleywarren

03-04-2008, 01:27 PM

Great looking project. For a few different idea's check out a mog owners version of the 109. Enjoy

http://www.dansunimogs.com/Landroverproject.htm

SOAZ

03-04-2008, 03:02 PM

Great looking project. For a few different idea's check out a mog owners version of the 109. Enjoy

http://www.dansunimogs.com/Landroverproject.htm
Wow, so many good looking LR's in this thread! droooling.:yikes:

Mercedesrover

03-04-2008, 03:50 PM

Pictures of the front diff / oil pan, Teriann.

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis7.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis8.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis9.jpg

Mercedesrover

03-14-2008, 10:55 AM

Some more pictures for you, TeriAnn.

Original bolt-in x-member fits just fine and is back in. A second bolt in x-member to hold up the tranny/t-case was fabricated and is also in. I had welded threaded plates to the bottom of the frame rails to accept this member before it was regalvanized. You'll see it uses the original t-case mounts and brackets and the t-case sits in the original position meaning the drive shafts didn't need to be altered. The new member will get galvanized later along with a set of sliders and a front bumper which are yet to be made.

I'll also put a couple pictures of the clearance at the oil pan too. You see there's lots of room.

Jim

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis10.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis11.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis12.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis13.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis14.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis15.jpg

I Leak Oil

03-14-2008, 09:58 PM

Jim,
I'm disappointed in you...letting that nice shiny paint get covered in all that body filler dust!!!!:Wow1:
Looks good!
JasonT.

Mercedesrover

03-18-2008, 11:10 AM

Set the bulkhead this morning. Lots of room!

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/chassis16.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/chassis17.jpg

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/chassis18.jpg

Michael Slade

03-18-2008, 01:09 PM

Looks BEEAUUUTTTEEFFULLL!

Remember to do your soundproofing on the bulkhead before you get any further. Now is the perfect time to get to those 'hard to reach' areas.

TeriAnn

03-18-2008, 01:48 PM

Jim,

I'm really impressed! :clapsmile

I know professional Land Rover mechanics who tried the swap and went to another power plant because the 617 had all those hangy down parts on the right side. I looked at the engine once siting inside a Mercedes and just couldn't see how the engine & a front prop shaft could coexist in a narrow Series frame. And I must say, you have made it look easy.

That is a stock unaltered 6 cyl bulkhead, correct?

You used a Stage I frame. Are you at the point where you could identify any problems with using a 4 cyl 109 frame? With good how to instructions plus a few special parts this could become a popular conversion in the States.

Any speculation as to what the fuel mileage might be?

We're all rooting for you!

http://www.tjwakeman.net/1cheerLeader.gifhttp://www.tjwakeman.net/1cheerLeader.gifhttp://www.tjwakeman.net/1cheerLeader.gifhttp://www.tjwakeman.net/1cheerLeader.gif

Mercedesrover

03-18-2008, 02:43 PM

Thanks, Teriann.

I'm really happy with how this is coming out. I was a little nervous about setting this bulkhead as I have been relying on measurements and hope that everything would fit. The hard stuff and unknown is behind me now. From here on out it's just small fiddly stuff.

Yes, it's an original, unmolested 6-cyl bulkhead. Well, I put new foot wells, posts, etc. in it, but it's in it's original configuration. Actually, now that I think about it, I did knock the inside corner out of the passenger's foot well to make room for the exhaust, but looking at it now I probably didn't need to.

I would think a standard Series frame would work. When this truck is done I'll have to park it next to the other and compare the two. but yes, I think it could be done. The bulkhead is the biggest hurdle.

I'm expecting 25mpg with this truck. I get that now with my 88" and with more power and higher gearing this should do the same.....I hope.

jim

P.S. That gunk you see dripping out of the bulkhead is the two quarts of rustproofing I poured into it, not rust drooling down!

revor

03-18-2008, 05:03 PM

I'm going to start saying BAD things about you Jim!

Jealousy is a evil thing you know!:drool:

seriessearcher

03-18-2008, 06:43 PM

Jim,

I thought it was drool from the guys in the shop or maybe other rover folks who stopped by to see the progress.

Looking good as always.

KevinNY

03-18-2008, 09:41 PM

That NP435 nestled in there is pure sexy, it looks no longer than the original box? Now how do we mate one to a Daihatsu??

Mercedesrover

03-18-2008, 11:54 PM

That NP435 nestled in there is pure sexy, it looks no longer than the original box? Now how do we mate one to a Daihatsu??

The NP435 with Ike's adapter is the same length as the Rover 4-speed, only much, much stronger. The Rover tranny has been fine in my 88" but it's only 75hp and a light truck. I expect this truck to both carry a load and do it at highway speeds. I didn't think the Rover tranny was up to it. It was expensive and a lot of work to go this route but I'm hoping it will last forever.

Now, to get it into your Daihatsu. No biggie. I'm assuming you're using an adapter plate between the Rover tranny and the Daihatsu engine. Find yourself a manual tranny bell housing for the back of this engine and we'll make it fit. A day's work.

KevinNY

03-19-2008, 12:43 AM

Thats uncomfortably tempting.

Yorker

03-19-2008, 01:47 AM

Thats uncomfortably tempting.

Isn't it?! :D

Kevin have you driven a NP435 before? There is a friend of Howard's near here who is putting one in his lightweight- he is using an adapter he got from Timm Cooper.

He also has a part time LT230 adapted to a T18 and no project for it...

SeaRubi

03-19-2008, 02:06 AM

Jim: looks spectacular. When will mine be ready? :wings:

cheers!
-isaac

KevinNY

03-19-2008, 02:33 AM

The original daihatsu clutch was cable operated and the fork opening is on the opposite side from the rover gearbox, could be an issue I would think.

Alaska Mike

03-19-2008, 02:08 PM

With a hydraulic clutch linkage, that can be dealt with pretty easily. I'm putting a SM465 in my SIII 88, so I think everyone should do it. Seriously though, it will be the last transmission your Rover will ever need, and they don't leak.

Monkeyboy

03-19-2008, 05:53 PM

... and they don't leak.

Heck, how do you know if there's any lube in it then?

Mercedesrover

03-19-2008, 06:53 PM

The only thing that leaks on my 88" is the Roverdrive and the Superwinch hubs. Gearbox, t-case diffs and engine are all tight.

No big trick to sealing these gearboxes. The shifter seals are the biggest thing. Use cut pieces of heater hose over the shafts. My aluminum t-case pan fixes the biggest leak on that.

Alaska Mike

03-19-2008, 10:51 PM

Mercedesrover

03-20-2008, 12:18 AM

It's funny...You call most of the usual suspects when it comes to buying Series parts, and I'm familiar with most of them, and you ask those guys what they drive. "Ah, a Toyota p/up, a Subaru wagon, Honda Civic...". If you're lucky you'll find a guy that leases a DII. Pretty poor. Most only know Series truck from what they see in the catalog.

When I tell them what I'm building all I get is silence. I know what you're dealing with, Mike. Most people don't know what a Series Rover is!

Anyway, a long week in the conversion world. It's weeks like this that I remember why I discourage people from doing engine conversions! :) Ah well, all in good fun!!

jim

DCH109

03-20-2008, 12:53 PM

Just kidding. I would probably have kept my whole drivetrain in a slightly modified (non-leaking) stock configuration if it wasn't in such questionable condition to start out with. Much easier to seek technical assistance when your components are original to one specific vehicle. Mine will have International (Dana), GM, Jeep, and Land Rover components, mated together with commercially-available adapters. The guys at Novak kinda pause when I say they're going into a Series Rover- they just don't have the experience with Rovers. The guys at most of the Rover vendors sputter a bit when I say that I am deviating from a stock configuration. When it's all together, I will probably be held at arms length by both groups. Maybe the Nissan Patrol guys will let me hang with them...

Hey we can start our own club :) Mine will be a mix of Chevy and Land Cruiser parts. Most people i mention that to tell me i am crazy or that i am ruining a classic Land Rover. I just tell them i am upgrading a poor drivetrain. At least i am keeping the frame, interior and body all Land Rover.

Jim, you Rover is coming along nicely, wish i had the shop you have available, would save me some headaches. I am stuck building mine in a 2 car garage. Thats hard when you have 2 frames and not a lot of room.
Keep the pictures coming and keep up the great work.
I ment to ask you as well, why did you choose the the sand color again? trying to make a big brother to the 88?

Oh and i might end up removing the cross member the the original bellhousing sits on and customizing a new one as i think it will interfere with the the front driveshafts, but we will see this weekend.

Michael Slade

03-20-2008, 01:03 PM

It's weeks like this that I remember why I discourage people from doing engine conversions!

The problem is once they're done right, it looks all so easy. Arriving at a simple elegance is neither simple nor elegant.

I sense a new sub-forum coming...

Mercedesrover

03-20-2008, 01:26 PM

Hey we can start our own club :) Mine will be a mix of Chevy and Land Cruiser parts. Most people i mention that to tell me i am crazy or that i am ruining a classic Land Rover. I just tell them i am upgrading a poor drivetrain. At least i am keeping the frame, interior and body all Land Rover.

Jim, you Rover is coming along nicely, wish i had the shop you have available, would save me some headaches. I am stuck building mine in a 2 car garage. Thats hard when you have 2 frames and not a lot of room.
Keep the pictures coming and keep up the great work.
I ment to ask you as well, why did you choose the the sand color again? trying to make a big brother to the 88?

Oh and i might end up removing the cross member the the original bellhousing sits on and customizing a new one as i think it will interfere with the the front driveshafts, but we will see this weekend.

Yup, this truck will be the same color as the 88" and very similar in many ways. Over the years of driving that truck and changing things on it I'm pretty happy with how things work now. These engines and the diff conversion is pretty well proven...Might as well stick with a sure thing.

The Stage One frame doesn't have the big second crossmember but has a smaller bolt-in one in it's place. I added a second behind it to support the tranny and t-case.

Mercedesrover

03-20-2008, 01:39 PM

The problem is once they're done right, it looks all so easy. Arriving at a simple elegance is neither simple nor elegant.

I sense a new sub-forum coming...

I saw this quote somewhere on this board I think:

Perfection is finally attained, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

Sums it up. I'm trying to make this truck just as simple as I can. Very few wires, very few "accessories", very little to go wrong. Form follows function and the less number of things that are hanging off/bolted on to the truck, the less things there are to go wrong.

And no, there's no elegance in it. You of all people understand, Mike. Your truck is a thing of beauty and I'm sure it didn't come easy. I work from 6:00am-7:00am every morning and then from 5:00pm-7:00pm every night on the truck. Then I come home and fiddle around with something in my basement shop at home. I eat dinner with dirty, knarely hands with my VERY understanding wife, then I lay away at night trying to find solutions to problems or thinking about what I need to do tomorrow. Elegant? Nope. Not even a little bit! :)

Michael Slade

03-20-2008, 01:56 PM

And no, there's no elegance in it. You of all people understand, Mike.

Thanks for the pat on the back, but I bow to your build-ups.

ntsqd

03-20-2008, 09:19 PM

Thanks Jim. I can get SEM through my local auto paint shop. I never liked POR myself, It always seemed to get a chip which would rust then the whole thing would peel off like bad powdercoat.
Just reading this thread stem to stern & spotted this. IME if POR is peeling it's because you didn't use their prep chemicals. MISF has tried the normal paint & body shop prep chems and they don't work as well for POR.

snip......
P.S. That gunk you see dripping out of the bulkhead is the two quarts of rustproofing I poured into it, not rust drooling down!
I suspected as much. My friend Rick made me use something like that when we did the body & paint on my '67 Ranchero.

I always admire folks committed enough to tackle such large projects. I can barely get my much smaller stuff done.
Sub'd, interested to see how things progress.

Mercedesrover

03-21-2008, 09:00 PM

After about 50 phone calls trying to find the right pipe, two sets of pipe and elbows returned to McMaster Carr, driving the guys at Napa nuts and about four hours of work I'm almost done with the head pipe for the exhaust. It's 2.5" stainless and comes directly off the turbo. I still need to weld a couple of braces on it but for the most part it's done.

Back to it!

http://seriestrek.com/109/exhaust1.jpg

ntsqd

03-21-2008, 09:07 PM

Shoot! Too late to help with that.
http://spdexhaust.com/HomeB.html
Those V-Band couplers are the cat's meow, but are ~$80 for the 3" variety.

Mike S

03-21-2008, 09:22 PM

Excuse me, but the truck you are building is insanely excellent in all respects. Congratulations on the vision, capability and determination to do it.

Mike S

Maine 110

03-21-2008, 09:48 PM

Just reading this thread stem to stern & spotted this. IME if POR is peeling it's because you didn't use their prep chemicals. MISF has tried the normal paint & body shop prep chems and they don't work as well for POR.

I did it by the book from POR, it held up well for about a year or so then the chips turned into peeling sheets. I probably should have been better about touching it up or putting a sacrificial coating like Waxoyl hardwax over it.

ntsqd

03-21-2008, 10:08 PM

I did it by the book from POR, it held up well for about a year or so then the chips turned into peeling sheets. I probably should have been better about touching it up or putting a sacrificial coating like Waxoyl hardwax over it.
Sand blasted metal by chance? I had peeling once with that. On a later project I let it develop some surface rust, prep by their 'book', & cured in a slightly moist environ. Lasted until the UV killed it (bumper). I suspect that if I'd top coated it that it would still be there. The Rustoleum I tried in it's place didn't last even a year before bubbling.
POR is a "moisture curing polyurethane paint" according to a friend in the paint business. Needs humidity to cure correctly.

Mercedesrover

03-21-2008, 10:17 PM

Alright, I'm going home now. We're doing 18 miles of the Appalachian Trail tomorrow and I haven't even packed my pack yet.

Finished the bracing, bolted the head pipe up and started working back. There will be a stainless muffler under the passenger's floor and it will dump out right in front of the rear wheel. It will run parallel with the truck half-way up the outriggers between the yet to be made rock sliders and the frame rail. The spring shackles are still the lowest part of the truck so I should be in good shape.

Bracing:

http://seriestrek.com/109/exhaust2.jpg

Progress for now:

http://seriestrek.com/109/exhaust3.jpg

Mercedesrover

03-23-2008, 10:26 PM

No work this weekend. A trip up Race Brook Falls trail and south on the Appalachian Trail to Sages Ravine. Lots of ice!

Three troopers:

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/at1.jpg

Notice the flask! Maggie, the black dog is 11 and lives for this stuff. She doesn't carry a pack anymore but is game for anything.

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/at2.jpg

A little help across an icy brook.

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/at3.jpg

Back on point tomorrow. Fuel tank goes in followed by fuel line and then on to the steering column mods.

frans

03-26-2008, 03:23 PM

Love your dogs!
Its good to take a break sometimes...

Mercedesrover

03-26-2008, 10:40 PM

Ok, back at it....

Got the tank in and waiting for fittings to plumb it up. Cut the steering column, bushed it and put on the universal. Got the slip shaft cut and fitted to the lower universal. The saddle on the bottom of the column will fasten to the brake tower. All fits well. Painted it tonight and will go back on for good tomorrow.

http://seriestrek.com/109/steering1.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/steering2.jpg

DCH109

03-27-2008, 03:18 AM

Hey Jim as i am using a LC PS box as well (got the idea from you) can you PM or post it here the parts you used for the steering setup. No sense reinventing the wheel.

Looking great By the way.

Mercedesrover

03-27-2008, 11:44 AM

There is only a few special things you'll need

McMaster Carr:

Bushing # 6391K418
Saddle # 11355T72

Borgeson Universal:

3/4"DD x 11/16"-36 universal # 014925
1"DD x 3/4"SM universal # 015264
24" telescopic shaft # 450024

About $220 worth of stuff all told.

jim

DCH109

03-27-2008, 12:28 PM

Perfect thanks Jim, that will save me some headaches.
How did the Gas tank mounting go?

Mercedesrover

03-27-2008, 04:25 PM

How did the Gas tank mounting go?

The only gas tank available for these trucks anymore is an aftermarket piece. They're really lousy but there's not much else you can do short of making one yourself. I still need to put a bulkhead fitting in it for the return line.

Alaska Mike

04-01-2008, 05:34 AM

Were the parts the same for the Saginaw box? That installation was pretty darn clean, certainly more so than the stock setup. Do you have to do any fender hacking?

Mercedesrover

04-01-2008, 10:51 AM

Were the parts the same for the Saginaw box? That installation was pretty darn clean, certainly more so than the stock setup. Do you have to do any fender hacking?

Everything would be the same except the lower u-joint. Not sure the size and spline count of the Saginaw.

You'll need to cut a little slot in the inner fender for the shaft to travel through, but nothing too major.

Getting ready to plumb brakes and clutch:

http://seriestrek.com/109/steering5.jpg

Yorker

04-04-2008, 09:06 PM

Jim-

you are using Parabolics and 1 ton/MOD spring shackles? Are the front spring hangers the lower type like on the 1 ton chassis or are they in the regular 109 position?

I've never run 1 ton shackles with parabolics but I've seen a few people who have and who have had problems with drive shafts(too much lift)- you might want to keep an eye on that.

KingSlug

04-05-2008, 10:11 AM

Mercedesrover

04-05-2008, 12:33 PM

I'm using military shackles both front and rear, 2-leaf paras on the front and 4-leaf on the rear. I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew in the rear. Guess I'll know when the rest of the body is on but it's pretty tall right now.

If the front hangers are dropped further than a Series truck, it's not by much. I'll have to take a look at the 88" but I didn't really notice that they're longer.

The driveshafts are in and there doesn't seem to be a problem right now. Like Jared said, the rear shaft is underneath the middle x-member, not through a hole like on a Series. The front joint on the front shaft seems fine and as the truck sits right now it's at full rebound. Keep in mind that I'm running Toyota centers and the pinion is lower in the housing than a Rover diff. Even so, it seems fine.

I've made some progress this week...Have clutch, brakes and steering. I'll paint the breakfast, hang the radiator, plumb the oil filter and cooler, run a few wires and with luck I'll have it running by late in the week or early next. Keep your fingers crossed.

Yorker

04-05-2008, 03:45 PM

If I remeber right Jim is using a Stage 1 frame, the Stage 1 spring hanger are dropped but not the same design as the 1 tonne/MOD 109 frames. Over at GnR we went through the whole thing once on the difference types of frames. Here is what I remember about the Stage 1 frame.

Dropped spring hangers, front cross member moved forward, middle cross member was notched for DS clearance on the early Stage 1 and really reduced on the later Stage 1s. There might be a couple of other things but I don't remember them.

Jared

Hmm I was pretty sure the front spring hangers were the same as a civilian 109/88.

If the pinions are lower that might compound driveline issues?

All I know is the UK guys who have tried 1 ton shackles and parabolics have had driveshaft issues- eaten U -joints etc. I remember one thread in particular I'll see if I can find it.

I don't know if it will be any problem just wanted to give you a heads up though since others have had problems... Of course the guys over there weren't aware of the angle shims we have here.

I have experience of both on my 109.

The parabolics will lift the front end by about 2" and the rear about 3". This will not adversely affect handling - on the contrary, the more supple suspension will greatly help road adhesion and cornering. How much roll you get depends on the spring rating (I have HD paras on mine) and, to some degree, the dampers. However, if you're conering so fast that the body roll becomes an issue, you're conering to fast full stop.

One -ton shackles will give about 1" lift, but a re a bad idea as they rotate the axle casings and upset the prop geometry badly, especially on the front. They will cause vibration and wear in the transmission. They should only be used on 1-ton chassis, where the hangers for the front end of each spring are deeper to match the shackles' extension, keeping the axle case orientation normal.

The parabolics will provide enough lift for your needs, especially if used with 7.50 tyres on LWB or after-market rims. It'd look very odd on 6.00s, and will look peculiar on the bigger tryes withttp://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=93611&highlight=shackles+parabolicsh the paras and 1-ton shackles - it'll be too tall for the length. http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=111447&highlight=shackles+parabolics

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=23188&highlight=shackles+parabolics

Yorker

04-05-2008, 03:50 PM

Of course it is always the same guy- Snagger- who goes on and on about it:

No, the problem is the use of 1-ton shackles with a standard chassis. You can't lower one end of the leaf spring using 1-ton shackles without lowing the other (front) end on extended mountings. These mountings are part of the 1-ton chassis design. By fitting the longer shackles, you have rotated the axles around their lateral axis, putting the pinion out of parallel to the gearbox shafts. This causes harmonic vibration, very rapid wear of the propshafts and damage to the axles and transfer box. Parabolics compound the problem because they have a greater camber, causing the prop angles to be greater. Returning to standard shackles with the parabolics will cure the problem, but you need to replace your rear prop UJs now.

Everyone told me the sky would fall if I used the 1 ton spring hangers on my IIa 88" and I had no problems...

DCH109

04-05-2008, 04:43 PM

Check the pictures of my chassis (Military 109) so you can see compair the difference on your 109 Jim if you want.
I am using the Military shackles on mine but then i have the correct chassis as well, and with the Toyota diffs and tranfercase i am in a totally different boat.

Front
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/622930/fullsize/p1010292.jpg

Rear
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/622931/fullsize/p1010293.jpg

Never mind the rust on the front of the frame, i will have the fixed once the fabrication is done.

Alaska Mike

04-05-2008, 04:56 PM

Never mind the rust on the front of the frame, i will have the fixed once the fabrication is done.
That's not rust. From what I'm told, that's Patina and is highly sought after. If you can scrape it off and bottle it, I imagine you can fund your whole project.

My frame was nothing but patina, but I don't have the time to properly package it.

24HOURSOFNEVADA

04-05-2008, 06:31 PM

I love this thread.

Mercedesrover

04-07-2008, 09:35 PM

Some progress over the past couple days. Exhaust is finished but finding some nice stainless hangers. The clutch and brakes are plumbed and bleed. On to the radiator and oil cooler this week. I had hoped to get it running by Friday but I don't think that will happen. Next week for sure!!

http://seriestrek.com/109/exhaust4.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis19.jpg

Yorker

04-07-2008, 09:42 PM

I had a chance to see Jim's 109 project yesterday... It is as impressive in person as it is portrayed in the pictures here- his attention to detail is amazing! I brought my camera to take pics but really those he has here do the job as well as any I could have taken.

It will be fun to see this truck evolve into the final product!:lurk:

Alaska Mike

04-08-2008, 11:35 PM

Where are you mounting the tank(s)?

Yorker

04-09-2008, 02:00 AM

Where are you mounting the tank(s)?

he has a rear tank- SW

Alaska Mike

04-09-2008, 03:54 AM

Ahhh, my mistake. The exhaust routing threw me.

Mercedesrover

04-10-2008, 11:05 AM

Work from the past couple days...

This is the home-made x-member that sits under the tranny/transfer case. I got that galvanized today along with the breakfast.

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis20.jpg

Here's the breakfast in hours-old galvanize. I sanded and painted just the forward facing surface and the rest will stay raw.

http://seriestrek.com/109/cooling1.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/cooling2.jpg

Holes were drilled in the side of it where the engine oil cooler mounts.

http://seriestrek.com/109/cooling3.jpg

It's a little tight but not really that bad. Certainly not any tighter than the engine to radiator in my 88". This is why I needed to use the 6cyl bulkhead. The lower radiator hose will be a bit tricky!

http://seriestrek.com/109/cooling4.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/cooling5.jpg

On to oil cooler lines and a few wires before I can fire it up.

jim

Yorker

04-10-2008, 02:22 PM

Jim-

What heater are you using?

You wanted a standard top- I think Ben Smith (bens@fourfold.org) might have one, it has been a while since I was at his place though.

Mercedesrover

04-10-2008, 03:33 PM

'67 NADA trucks have a unique type of heater. Half inside, half outside the cab.

Thanks for the tip...I'll drop him a note.

seriessearcher

04-11-2008, 07:37 PM

Jim,

As always it looks top notch. I am envious of your progress.

24HOURSOFNEVADA

04-15-2008, 06:58 AM

Man...On one hand I want you to hurry up and finish, but one other hand, I will miss this build once it's finished. What a conundrum.

Mercedesrover

04-15-2008, 10:51 AM

I'm going to miss working on it too. Maybe I won't say that in six months, but I doubt it. Half the fun of these trucks is planning out and executing the build but it'll be a while before I do another. But you never know....maybe a 109 pick-up truck next.

Anyway, the wings are hung temporarily just to make sure everything fits. Tight but good. I should have a couple radiator hoses today and I'll just run the two heater hoses together for now. I need to run a couple wires to the starter and hook up the boost gauge and it should be ready to fire. With luck it will be tomorrow night. Stay tuned!

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis21.jpg

jim

stevenmd

04-15-2008, 11:47 AM

Yorker

04-15-2008, 03:39 PM

seriessearcher

04-15-2008, 05:10 PM

Jim,

Will you be running it as a Series III front or a Series II? I seem to see a couple extra headlight slots.

It still looks great.

Mercedesrover

04-15-2008, 05:17 PM

Will you be running it as a Series III front or a Series II? I seem to see a couple extra headlight slots.

Like my 88" this truck will have four headlights (Hella H4s). The outers will function primarily with the inners being selectable and then operating along with the outers. That's how the 88" is wired and it works pretty well. Lots of light when you need it but no sticky-outy fog lights getting caught on everything.

jim

seriessearcher

04-15-2008, 08:26 PM

Jim,

With the bull bar I never noticed it on the 88. Sounds like a pretty good set up.

Mercedesrover

04-17-2008, 11:21 PM

Running!!!

And like a swiss watch! I'm a happy boy tonight.
Moving under its own power and all seems great!

http://www.birmabrightbrotherhood.org/images/chassis22.JPG

stevenmd

04-17-2008, 11:42 PM

Congrats! But if I were you I'd put the cup holder someplace more accessible... :ylsmoke:

IH8RDS

04-17-2008, 11:54 PM

be careful sitting on that battery :bike_rider:

dieselcruiserhead

04-18-2008, 04:06 AM

Congrats Jim, that is great! I need to give you a buzz about one of your adapters! Thanks, Andre

greenmeanie

04-18-2008, 05:58 AM

Mercedesrover

04-18-2008, 11:22 AM

Man, every time I see all that shiny bright galvy I get really jealous. As I was lying under my NADA truck this evening getting high on paint stripper fumes and scraping the chassis down for paint I could swear I was having halucinations about your truck.

Congratualtions.

Gregor

Why stop now? Go for it!

R.N. has a NADA 6-cyl frame right in stock. Wonder if that would qualify for the free shipping weekends they run?

DCH109

04-18-2008, 12:54 PM

the 109 is looking good Jim. You have to take it for a run like that.

Mercedesrover

04-18-2008, 01:36 PM

You have to take it for a run like that.

We were hittin' 'em pretty heavy last night and almost tied a picnic table to the thing and drove it up to the package store!

greenmeanie

04-18-2008, 03:17 PM

We were hittin' 'em pretty heavy last night and almost tied a picnic table to the thing and drove it up to the package store!

Ah, so that's the plan for new improved seating from Land Rover.

Something tells me that our friends at Roversnorth might baulk at funding the shipping for a LWB chassis from VT to AZ. I think that would really eat into their profit margin a tad.

Anyway, other than the quirky bolt on rear cross member and some surface rust my current chassis is in good nick. I'd love to galvy it but there is a slight problem with space to do a body off build. The missus demands that her car be able to go away at night. I find this entirely unreasonable as the driveway is perfectly clean and it hardly ever rains here. Anyway her Audi already has a galvy body.

Cheers
Gregor

viatierra

04-22-2008, 04:24 AM

Congratulations on getting the build running! Complete ignorance and curiosity on my end... what's next on the punch list under the hood? Moving on to another phase of the project?

It's looking fantastic! I'm enjoying regularly checking in on your progress...

Mercedesrover

04-22-2008, 10:37 AM

Thanks, Greg.

Well, the engine is wired. (Glow plugs, two wires to the starter, two wires to the alternator and one to the temp gauge) Everything else for the engine is done. All the electrical components for this truck will be under the seat….Battery, fuse bank, glow plug relay, head light relays, etc. will all be in the seat box. The only thing electrical under the hood will be wires.

Next on the list is to rebuild the heater box and install the blower motor. Hope to have that done by tomorrow or Thursday. After that I’ll paint and install the wings and the seat box. With those in place I can wire everything else up in the truck. Within about three weeks I hope to have all the wiring and electrical done in the truck including all the lighting and the dash board and gauges. We’ll see!

jim

DCH109

04-22-2008, 12:30 PM

Did you have a plan of the mounting for the battery and wiring under the seatbox? Have you looked at how the Military rovers are setup?
My 109 has the batteries (2 for the 24 volt but 1 when i am done as i will be back to 12 volt) in the middle (no middle seat in mine), in a heavy duty battery box. All cables are run from there to the engine compartment via flexible conduit that is attached to the frame.

Not sure i would use conduit again (maybe a galvanized would be better) as mine was badly rusted, but the idea is there.

Mercedesrover

04-22-2008, 12:50 PM

I’ve never really looked at the military ones but I have a good idea of what I need.

The four headlight will be wired through relays for each one, there’s a starter relay to run the glow plugs, a 12-place fuse block and a few other relays to run things like the cooling fan, etc.

There will be four loomed harnesses running from the box. One up to the engine, one running up to the dash, one for the front lights and one for the rear lights. The looms will be regular split plastic ones. They seem to hold up pretty well and I can add to them as needed.

Yorker

04-22-2008, 04:17 PM

Jim what battery(ies?) are you using?

Mercedesrover

04-22-2008, 04:32 PM

NAPA 75XDT800. Dual terminals, good guarantee. I've had three go-arounds with Optima and haven't had much luck. These have been good for me so far.

Mercedesrover

04-24-2008, 10:42 AM

It's been a few days since I've posted any new photos....

Got the inside of the bulkhead is lined with "Soundcoat". Starting to run some wires up to the dash and back to where the seat box goes.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body1.jpg

Last pictures before the wings go on. Got the heater box rebuilt and painted and the new fan motor mounted. I got the air cleaner assm. last night and just need to paint that too. About all that's left under the hood after that is to plumb the heater core and install the heat valve. That should be here today. The wings will get paint tonight and installed tomorrow. From there I can start wiring the lights.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body2.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/body3.jpg

jim

Michael Slade

04-24-2008, 01:23 PM

Looking good. I would add a second layer of that sound coat on the engine side of the bulkhead.

frans

04-24-2008, 03:14 PM

Mercedesrover

04-24-2008, 03:50 PM

Looking good. I would add a second layer of that sound coat on the engine side of the bulkhead.

I think I'll get away with just this layer on the inside. These engines are remarkably civilized. The 5-cylinder turbos are even smoother than the 4-cylinder ones. In the 88" at highway speeds the sound of the wind rushing by is louder than anything you can hear from the engine.

Mercedesrover

04-24-2008, 03:52 PM

Jim, are you going to stick with the stock air cleaner? It seems like I replace alot of those rubber mounts for folks and always thought that re-routing the air cleaner to a K&N set up would be longer lasting... Of course your engine is tuned so should not shake too much but still as a off road vehicle everything will get jostled alot.
?

Yeah, those rubber isolators have always been a problem. I ordered some different ones from McMaster Carr and hope they'll hold up better than the stock ones. Funner Mercedes hasn't come up with a cure for those mounts yet.

Scott Brady

04-24-2008, 04:22 PM

That looks so awesome. Great job!

Michael Slade

04-24-2008, 04:25 PM

I think I'll get away with just this layer on the inside. These engines are remarkably civilized.

You would know better than I.

KingSlug

04-25-2008, 03:40 AM

Jim,

How are you shutting off the engine? I have and electric EGR valve that I am playing with on the 240D that will open up vaccuum to the stock cut-off on the IP when the key is in the off position. I was just wondering how you were doing it besides pushing the lever.

Jared

Mercedesrover

04-25-2008, 10:53 AM

How are you shutting off the engine?

Simple momentary air switch plumbed into the brake booster circuit. Again, McMaster Carr. It would be impossible to do any of this without McMaster Carr.

Part # is 62475K21

http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/114/gfx/small/62475kp4s.gif

jim

James86004

04-25-2008, 09:28 PM

It would be impossible to do any of this without McMaster Carr.
When I started my mechanical engineering career, my boss told me there were really only two things I needed to know. F=ma, and McMaster-Carr's phone number.

Mercedesrover

04-26-2008, 01:04 AM

When I started my mechanical engineering career, my boss told me there were really only two things I needed to know. F=ma, and McMaster-Carr's phone number.

I used to know it....Now it's just entered into the speed-dial on my phone.

Man, shoulda bought stock in that company before this build started....

jim

Mercedesrover

04-26-2008, 11:34 AM

Under the hood is all but done. I piece of hose leading to the intake and the cable to the heat valve and that's it. On to lighting and other wiring and getting the bulkhead put back together.

http://seriestrek.com/109/chassis25.jpg

frans

04-26-2008, 08:50 PM

I am really looking forward to seeing how you will set up the interior of your truck!

Your progress has been so fast, really. Some projects I have seen have taken double or triple the time you have taken, and have not been nearly as good.

ps: This might sound silly but don't forget to check the oil and other obvious stuff before firing up that engine!

Yorker

04-26-2008, 09:23 PM

Jim- what does the interior heater distribution box look like?

greenmeanie

04-27-2008, 07:51 PM

Jim,
Any chance of posting some detail shots of the driver's side wing? I'd like to see how it fits round you steering column linkage and power steering box.

Cheers
Gregor

Mercedesrover

05-01-2008, 11:03 AM

Jim- what does the interior heater distribution box look like?

Wanted to get it painted in installed before I posted a picture.

Here it it:

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/body4.jpg

Mercedesrover

05-06-2008, 10:48 AM

Haven't posted in a few days so I thought I'd put up a pic of the latest progress.

Besides the headlight doors and the front bumper, everything is done forward of the bulkhead. Everything is wired, plumbed, tied, bolted, screwed and ready to go. Next project will be painting and installing the seat box and getting to work on the control wiring and the dashboard/switch panels. There will be nothing Land Rover electrically in this truck except the wiper motor, turn signal switch and the ignition switch. All the other switches/relays will be generic and common. As well, the wiring harness is/will be home-made from scratch. The battery, fuse bank and all relays will be under the drivers seat and nothing electrical exposed to the elements except wires running out to do their jobs. It should make for a reliable system.

Anyway, here's what she looks like at the moment. I know the 4-headlight deal isn't very popular with the purists but it allows me to operate the inner lights as driving/off-road lights and eliminates the need for accessory lights hanging off the truck that get hung up and tangled in the bushes.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body5.jpg

jim

Michael Slade

05-06-2008, 12:24 PM

Anyway, here's what she looks like at the moment. I know the 4-headlight deal isn't very popular with the purists but it allows me to operate the inner lights as driving/off-road lights and eliminates the need for accessory lights hanging off the truck that get hung up and tangled in the bushes.

1. I'm not a purist. ;)
2. I don't like how it looks. ;)
3. I love how it works. :D

That might not make sense, but when did I ever make sense?

Seriously man, that looks very sweet. Beautiful color. New galvanizing makes me happy.

DCH109

05-06-2008, 12:24 PM

Hey i think it is smiling.

Looking real good.
I hear you on the off the self parts for the electrical. I will be doing much the same with mine.

Yorker

05-06-2008, 04:28 PM

Wanted to get it painted in installed before I posted a picture.

Here it it:

http://www.seriestrek.com/109/body4.jpg

Ahhh OK!! I thought it might be one of those- the distribution box goes under te parcel shelf and over to the drivers side and has little doors that open to sistribute the heat. You'll have to let me know how well it works. Are you going to put an aux heater in the rear too?

revor

05-06-2008, 05:31 PM

As always Jim.... Nice work!!! Maybe I'll send my 109 out for you to finish:ylsmoke:

Mercedesrover

05-10-2008, 12:39 AM

Work from the past couple days.

Painted up the seat box and got it in the truck. Started to run wires under the driver's seat. Everything electrical will be in this box. Battery, fuse panel, glow plug relay, headlight relays, etc., everything. Wires go out to do their job and that's it.

Get to start soldering and shrink-wrapping tomorrow.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body7.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/body8.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/body9.jpg

seriessearcher

05-10-2008, 02:11 AM

Jim,

You are working so fast you may need a trest drive next weekend. We will save a spot for you in Moab!!

Mercedesrover

05-11-2008, 12:24 AM

Everything under the seat is wired but the battery. I'll get that on Monday. Dash and gauges are next.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body11.jpg

24HOURSOFNEVADA

05-11-2008, 06:14 AM

I love this build. It's one of the things I think about when I'm not obsessing over my motor rebuild.

Outstanding job.

TeriAnn

05-11-2008, 02:21 PM

Everything under the seat is wired but the battery.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body11.jpg

Jim, your work is lovely but I personally would worry about your seat box electrical layout. Everything is a compromise and where you intend to drive, where you have driven and their environmental conditions influence how we decide to make the compromises that we do.

I have been in situations several times where water would be flowing into the box through your wire openings. Where Land Rovers that had electrics down that low had to be towed out of rivers, once in numbers that might exceed the daily catch limit. All because electrics needed to keep the engine running were submerged.

The wiring openings in your seatbox don't appear to be water tight and there is no water protection in your fuse box or relays. If any of those connections are required to keep the diesel running I worry that you might find your Rover dead in the water.

Maybe I just worry too much but I've learned to keep my electrics at distributor/instrument panel heights. I realize diesels with mechanical injection change the dynamics, but your layout still gives me pause.

It is lovely work though.

.

grouch

05-11-2008, 02:32 PM

If you ask me the four head lights look fantastic! Nice job on the whole thing.

Mercedesrover

05-11-2008, 04:06 PM

Jim, your work is lovely but I personally would worry about your seat box electrical layout. Everything is a compromise and where you intend to drive, where you have driven and their environmental conditions influence how we decide to make the compromises that we do.

I have been in situations several times where water would be flowing into the box through your wire openings. Where Land Rovers that had electrics down that low had to be towed out of rivers, once in numbers that might exceed the daily catch limit. All because electrics needed to keep the engine running were submerged.

The wiring openings in your seatbox don't appear to be water tight and there is no water protection in your fuse box or relays. If any of those connections are required to keep the diesel running I worry that you might find your Rover dead in the water.

Maybe I just worry too much but I've learned to keep my electrics at distributor/instrument panel heights. I realize diesels with mechanical injection change the dynamics, but your layout still gives me pause.

It is lovely work though.

.

Actually, they are Hubbell liquid-tight fittings and shouldn't allow any water in.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5D883

Of course, this box will fill up with water if I'm deep enough for it to come over the edge. (Though I could make a water-tight lid for it, I suppose.) But in actuality, there are a few reasons that having the electrics here don't bother me.

1) The Benz diesel requires no electricity at all to run. You can wrap a chain around all this stuff and rip it out and the truck will continue to run. In fact, there doesn't need to be a single wire run to the engine at all. Pop-start it and we can do without a battery too.

2) This truck will probably never see three feet of water anyway. I mean really, who's does? (Except those knuckleheads on your Border To Border trip! :))

3) This stuff can get wet anyway. Sure, it might mess the relays up a bit (and I'll carry spares anyway) but the rest of the stuff can be submerged without damage.

Alaska Mike

05-11-2008, 04:26 PM

2) This truck will probably never see three feet of water anyway. I mean really, who's does? (Except those knuckleheads on your Border To Border trip! :))

Hey! I do all of the time. Just about every trail up here crosses a river or creek of some kind, and they're usually that deep or deeper.

I'm considering putting my battery where you did, but TeriAnn's comments kind of mirror my own thoughts. I'll have to see how the underhood space goes and if I can squeeze an Optima in there somewhere. I've also considered a marine battery box in the tub or under the seat, but it's another issue that hasn't completely resolved itself.

01001010

05-11-2008, 05:03 PM

Jim,

Your project is an inspiration! Fantastic work!! I can only hope my patience is great enough to be able to pay as much attention to detail as you have. (I must admit I am getting a bit antsy about not having a truck or not going wheelin these last few months)

TeriAnn

05-11-2008, 10:59 PM

2) This truck will probably never see three feet of water anyway. I mean really, who's does? (Except those knuckleheads on your Border To Border trip! :))

Ah, you mean Simon leading a large group of Land Rovers up river in a canyon during a rain? :yikes:

Thankfully there was a 101 there to make repeated trips hauling disabled coilers and the one Series rig that had sunk when the driver misjudged a crossing point.

The deepest I willingly go is half way up the seat box on a relatively flat surface. Thankfully I decent at reading the water and not afraid to go wading if I think the depth might be a bit much.

Water proof connectors make a lot more sense where you used them. Thanks for the link.

I hope you get that truck to the National meet in Moab. I really would like the opportunity to look it over in person.

Mercedesrover

05-12-2008, 12:38 AM

Ah, you mean Simon leading a large group of Land Rovers up river in a canyon during a rain? :yikes:

Thankfully there was a 101 there to make repeated trips hauling disabled coilers and the one Series rig that had sunk when the driver misjudged a crossing point.

The deepest I willingly go is half way up the seat box on a relatively flat surface. Thankfully I decent at reading the water and not afraid to go wading if I think the depth might be a bit much.

Water proof connectors make a lot more sense where you used them. Thanks for the link.

I hope you get that truck to the National meet in Moab. I really would like the opportunity to look it over in person.

I did two trips with B2B and planned a third, and really, can't say too much bad about Simon. Time heals wounds. And though I never met Rose, I became quite fond of her while planning B2B '01

And no, living in the suburbs of Toronto doesn't give one the best experience with dry creek beds and thunder clouds to the north. Live and learn.

This National meet keeps coming up. September, eh? Going to the North Maine woods for a week at the end of the month, Alaska in July, northern Ontario for a week after that. No, TeriAnn, No. I can't make it! (I don't think....) I really want to take this truck to Newfoundland and Labrador next year, but who knows......

DCH109

05-12-2008, 12:54 PM

Hey! I do all of the time. Just about every trail up here crosses a river or creek of some kind, and they're usually that deep or deeper.

I'm considering putting my battery where you did, but TeriAnn's comments kind of mirror my own thoughts. I'll have to see how the underhood space goes and if I can squeeze an Optima in there somewhere. I've also considered a marine battery box in the tub or under the seat, but it's another issue that hasn't completely resolved itself.

Have a look at the military Battery box. (my FFR had one)
You lose the middle seat as the battery cover takes its place, but the batteries would site high enough. If you utilize the second battery compartment for the wiring and so forth, this will put the fuses and relays at about the same level as you when your sitting in the Rover. Myself i would think that would be high enough. That is unless you plan to have water up to your arse.
Another option is to encase the important parts into something like an otter box or pelican case. and seal the connections in and out.

Jim does have a point on the MB diesel (an others of similar style) once you get them running they are hard to stop. The MB actually has a lever on the engine for an emergence stop if needed (think it says Push to Stop or something similar in red).
That will be my main issue on the Gas engine. I will have to make sure it is waterproof. as much as possible.

Like those connectors Jim, Thanks for the link. i will have to pick up a couple when i am at that point.

Alaska Mike

05-12-2008, 03:56 PM

Have a look at the military Battery box. (my FFR had one)
You lose the middle seat as the battery cover takes its place, but the batteries would site high enough. If you utilize the second battery compartment for the wiring and so forth, this will put the fuses and relays at about the same level as you when your sitting in the Rover. Myself i would think that would be high enough. That is unless you plan to have water up to your arse.
While I don't plan to have water that high... well, it happens. That battery box sounds interesting. Do you have a link or picture? The middle seat is of limited utility for me anyway.

DCH109

05-12-2008, 04:20 PM

While I don't plan to have water that high... well, it happens. That battery box sounds interesting. Do you have a link or picture? The middle seat is of limited utility for me anyway.

Let me get it tonight. I never took a shot of it, before i took it apart. The picture will just be the seat box with the battery box in it. and then one with the cover. but you will get the idea. i will shoot it off when i get home.

TeriAnn

05-12-2008, 08:41 PM

I'm considering putting my battery where you did, but TeriAnn's comments kind of mirror my own thoughts.

The location Jim is using is a stock LR mounting location for some diesels & 6 cylinder versions.

It has been my observation that car batteries don't seem to mind being submerged briefly. Mine has certainly been underwater numerous times and is still doing its battery thing.

With a V8 and 2 front fuel tanks I don't have many places to put a battery.

I found a real short diesel battery with posts recessed in the top corners and mounted it under the passenger side floorboard between the front fuel tank outrigger and the bulkhead support outrigger.

The battery is the same height as the 109 frame so it does not stick down below frame level. I had a galvanized box built and glued a rubber mat to the underside of the floor board. That battery is on its seventh year and has been submerged several times.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/GRdetailPics/battBox.jpg
This is the battery box. The top flanges sit on top of frame rails.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/GRdetailPics/BattboxSide.jpg
Installed battery box. You can see that the long frame member sits below the bottom of the box as does the bottom front edge of the front fuel tank. The inside front horizontal section of the bulkhead cross member is about the same depth to just very slightly lower than the battery box. Yes there are holes in the bottom corners to let the water out.

The battery is a tight fit inside the box. Not a standard location but I was very low on placement options and it keeps cables short.

DCH109

05-13-2008, 03:16 PM

Here is he battery box this is in my 109

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/rovers3/Land%20Rover%20FFR/P1010349.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/rovers3/Land%20Rover%20FFR/P1010350.jpg

Cover on
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/rovers3/Land%20Rover%20FFR/P1010352.jpg

And a side view.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/rovers3/Land%20Rover%20FFR/P1010355.jpg

The Dirt and undercoating will get removed and i will take it to the Galvanizes when i do the frame. The box it heavy for it size. It does not have any drain holes, and does not seem to leak. Just very dirty and has some oil on it.

Alaska Mike

05-13-2008, 04:54 PM

Sorry for the hijack, but this was what I was looking for. I wonder who has these? I could certainly fab one up if they aren't commonly available. Looks like a good place for electronics.

TeriAnn

05-13-2008, 05:52 PM

Sorry for the hijack, but this was what I was looking for. I wonder who has these? I could certainly fab one up if they aren't commonly available. Looks like a good place for electronics.

You will probably have to fabricate one. The drop box shown was part of some Military Land Rover specification. I've never seen it in a civilian Land Rover and only a few military ones. There is a different version that was an option for civilian LRs that have a step down towards the back for greater storage capacity. It is not suitable as a battery rest.

P.A Blanchards are most likely to have one for sale, but by the time you convert to pounds & pay shipping it likely will be much cheaper to have one bent up at home.

I have a civilian drop box and a centre counsel instead of a centre seat. Its a great place to store things you want to keep handy whilst driving.

01001010

05-14-2008, 12:31 AM

Aww man!

So am I suppose to have a drop box here?...

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c383/LRO96D1/P1190067.jpg

TeriAnn

05-14-2008, 01:46 AM

Aww man!

So am I suppose to have a drop box here?...

Only if you want one. My guess is around 90% of them have no box there, just a sheet of birmabright that can slide forward to allow you to do work on the transfercase area. I have a dip stick on my transfercase so I can check oil level & top up without leaving the driver's seat. I also rigged a dip stick for the gearbox (T-18) so I can check it seated as well. I got tired crawling under in icy mud each morning just to check fluids.

Birmabright is the Aluminum alloy Land Rover used to build Series rigs.

01001010

05-14-2008, 03:03 AM

Oh ok! Thank you Teri!

Jim,

Excellent work with the wiring. I may have to follow in your footsteps as well as I'd like to head back to Florida and visit some of the trails I never got a chance to wheel on...and most of them involve being in water for extended periods of time.

Mercedesrover

05-17-2008, 12:43 PM

Got the rest of the wiring and the instrument panel built and installed. The panel is cut from brushed stainless. Not sure I like it yet. Regardless, all the wiring is done including the switches and indicator lights for the lockers.

Built a front bumper while I was at it.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body14.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/body15.jpg

http://seriestrek.com/109/body16.jpg

TeriAnn

05-17-2008, 01:44 PM

Got the rest of the wiring and the instrument panel built and installed. The panel is cut from brushed stainless. Not sure I like it yet.

http://seriestrek.com/109/body14.jpg

Jim, I absolutely love your work so far but that instrument panel aesthetically sucks big time. It would maybe work on a CJ5 but not a Series Land Rover. It just strikes a loud aesthetic discordance with the rest of the vehicle.

Was there no way you could live with the stock main panel plus an auxiliary panel or two? If you don't like Smiths gauges VDO has a line of gauges that have the same basic look as the Smiths gauges.

I know it is your vehicle and it only needs to please you, but will you be truly comfortable with this choice?

craig

05-17-2008, 03:46 PM

Jim,

I love everything about your truck. It is amazing work. I think your gut is telling you the right thing about the appearance of the switch panel.

It would look great if it was galvanized (or painted) and mounted from behind. Right now it looks kinda tacked onto the dash. If it was mounted from behind, it might not interrupt the dash lines so much.

Again, I love the truck!
Craig

frans

05-17-2008, 04:43 PM

Your work is an inspiration in how to re-build a landrover and not mess around doing it!

I have a general type question:

With the limited storage space available in LRs, is their any particular reason why folks don't engineer/fabricate the bumpers to incorporate storage for tire chains, tow straps, compressed air storage, etc?

Is it because that would change the original look of the vehicle?

Mercedesrover

05-17-2008, 05:10 PM

Jim, I absolutely love your work so far but that instrument panel aesthetically sucks big time.

Tell me how you really feel. Yow! :p

Actually, I think it's growing on me. I might paint it, but for now I'm going to leave be. It's nothing more then completely functional and durable and that's what I want.

One of the reasons I wanted a one-piece, strong dash plate is these 2.6-style bulkheads are a fair amount weaker than their 4-cylinder counterparts as the boxed section behind the engine is removed on this model. This bulkhead was near cracked in half between the upper and lower parts of the dash box, and the frame wasn't all that bad on this truck. This heavy plate will help hold the bulkhead rigid and with luck will keep it from cracking again.

jim

Mercedesrover

05-17-2008, 05:15 PM

With the limited storage space available in LRs, is their any particular reason why folks don't engineer/fabricate the bumpers to incorporate ....compressed air storage, etc?

Is it because that would change the original look of the vehicle?

The front bumper on my 88" is an air storage tank supplied by a 12v compressor mounted on the frame. Doesn't hold too much air but it still comes in very handy.

http://www.seriestrek.com/labrador/lab11.jpg

jim

Michael Slade

05-17-2008, 07:07 PM

I'm OK with the layout, etc...but the color of the panel has me a bit concerned. I know that for my eyes, anything on the interior of a car that's chrome and can reflect the sun back at me makes driving VERY uncomfortable. My CrewCab interior is all a satin black with black guage. I'm not sure it's the prettiest thing around, but the black color helps me a lot. In fact, where the paint has peeled off of the galvanizing and it can show through bugs me. I need to re-prime and re-paint those areas.

Go with your gut, but I'd like to see at the very least you taking the shine off of that silver.

DCH109

05-18-2008, 02:01 PM

Hey Jim,

The Rover is looking great. Not sure about the panel, or the gauges, I would have gone with something black for the gauges and painted the panel to match the truck. BUT, this is YOUR build not mine and not others. I am sure as i build mine people will have their options on what they do not like.
What it comes down to is this, do you like it? Does it work for you? Can you change it later if you want (of course you can)?
So enjoy your build and keep the pics coming.

Now with that said. Do you have a pic of the steering shaft after you cut off the worm gear?

Or where did you cut it off at?