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Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 09:19 PM
Update: Current Image
http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2013/Discovery3_4_LR3_LR4_Air_Locker/Discovery_4_Air_Locker%20(2).jpg

As many of you know, the Overland Journal staff really likes Land Rovers, especially the solid-axle, coil-sprung variety. Our personal vehicles include a 1991 RRC, 1995 DI (5-speed), Defender 110, DII, Series IIa, etc. We have all seen Land Rover take a completely different approach to vehicle design and systems since those classic, Camel Trophy era machines. I had all but discounted the new offerings, but my opinion on the newer Land Rovers changed when I purchased a Range Rover MKIII for my wife (Stephanie is the designer of Overland Journal) and then subsequently took a month-long trip in Australia with a Discovery 3 (LR3).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhP3z3u3cc4
From our trip into the outback of Australia. We drove thousands of miles in a well-used LR3 from ARB and had no issues, not even a flat.

Reliability was improving rapidly for Land Rover, and these trucks were actually outperforming earlier models in certain conditions (especially cross-axle terrain). The final "aha" moment came during a chat with Ray Dinardi, General Manager of Land Rover Las Vegas. He was showing me his collection of classic BMW motorcycles and indicated that the area he was storing all these cool bikes used to be LR service bays. He said that in 2006, they had 25 technicians and worked 7 days a week on warranty work and repairs. The quality of the new Land Rovers has increased so significantly that he now employes only six technicians. This is big news - modern Land Rovers seem to be pretty reliable.

I really enjoy Stephanie's MKIII Range Rover, so when I started considering what my next vehicle would be, I reviewed the available offerings. We had bought a JK Wrangler Rubicon (and drove it all the way to Panama), and of course I love my Discovery I, but it is becoming more of an office decoration than daily driver. It is also important that we test new products and new vehicles, so I decided to dip my toe into the dark and foreboding pool of modern overland vehicles. We considered several modern platforms, but none seemed interesting. We had been modifying and working with Jeep Rubicons for several years, so it was time to change it up.

We obtained a 2012 LR4 for testing and put it through the paces. I really liked it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Qk9RtPjX0

With the successful test, the decision was made to build a modern Land Rover into a serious exploration vehicle. It is surprising how many products are available for the LR4, so we made a list of solutions that would address concerns with the stock vehicle for long-distance remote travel. Land Rover provided a 2012 LR4 for the project and we wasted no time cutting plastic. The goal was to have the LR4 mostly finished by SEMA.

It is silver with a tan interior
http://www.overlandinternational.com/images/ExPo_editorial/d4_12my_studio_060711_01_LowRes.jpg

http://www.overlandinternational.com/images/ExPo_editorial/d4_12my_studio_060711_02_LowRes.jpg

Land Rover just took a similar vehicle (although diesel) half-way around the world. I know a few of the drivers from that trip and they told me the trucks did great - no major issues. Land Rover Millionth Discovery Expedition (http://www.landrover.com/gl/en/lr/about-land-rover/news-overview/goodwood-journey-of-discovery-raises-one-million-pounds/). I respect that Land Rover still supports significant overland expeditions like this.
http://www.overlandinternational.com/images/ExPo_editorial/day30_lr1m_009_LowRes.jpg

http://www.overlandinternational.com/images/ExPo_editorial/day39_lr1m_005_LowRes.jpg

More details on planned modifications and progress later today. We also look forward to learning from those who have already modified LR3s and LR4s. Post up your impressions and ideas.

Let's get started
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/53837_10151222350958914_1680862681_o.jpg

Dmarchand
10-24-2012, 09:25 PM
Already rocking the ARB bumper?

RNPhoto
10-24-2012, 09:53 PM
Awesome! I drove the LR4 several months ago and fell in love with it. It was FAR more capable than my modified DII. Can't wait to see the progression of your LR4.

Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 09:56 PM
What are our initial plans?

Protection: This truck needs protection to save the expensive sheetmetal.
1. ARB Front Bumper
2. Kaymar Rear Bumper
3. Aluminum Rocker Protection
4. Skid Plates for soft bits underneath

Ground Clearance:
1. Johnson Rods for 2.5" 'lift'. You basically gain 'normal mode' ride height clearance by stealing extension travel.
2. Taller tires. 32.5" diameter to start. 33.5" on 18s to follow.

Recovery:
1. Front and rear recovery points
2. Warn 9.5 winch with synthetic line

Loading and Lashing:
1. Custom drawer system for sleeping and equipment storage
2. Lashing points
3. Aluminum roof rack

Additional Items:
1. 50L Fridge (of course, and the fridge in the arm rest just isn't big enough for a few pounds of Ribeyes)
2. HID lights
3. Comprehensive recovery and tool kit
4. Full compliment of support equipment (we have learned a lot about what works from our round-the-world trip).
5. Seat covers
6. Navigation
7. 2M radio
8. Possibly an awning

We are also going to test out a few other projects, including fitting factory LR 18" wheels and constructing a polyurethane emergency 'lift kit' that we can install easily in the field should the air suspension fail or fault.

The most important decision is where we are going to take it first. I am thinking Southern Utah in December to stretch its legs a bit.

clcoyle
10-24-2012, 10:05 PM
Sub'd

rustyjames
10-24-2012, 10:09 PM
Awesome! I'm also a fan of newer Land Rovers and have been contemplating adding a LR3 to the stable. Looking forward to seeing the progress.

Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 10:16 PM
Already rocking the ARB bumper?

Yes, and it completely changes the look of the vehicle. It is surprising how much armor is available for the LR4/LR4.

Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 10:34 PM
The SEMA prep started late last week. The ARB bumper went on first, along with the Kaymar rear with a single swing out for the spare tire.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/375875_10151460434478275_560269944_n.jpg

Why an ARB bumper on the LR4?

The most important reason is vanity. I like the way an ARB bumper looks on a vehicle and the ARB completely changes the spirit of the LR4. Of course there are many important functional benefits to bumper, primary of which is the fitment of a self-recovery winch. We can also install aux. lights on the bumper. By design, the ARB bull bar is designed to survive most animal strikes, preventing the radiator and other critical systems from being disabled. We do have elk and deer in Arizona, so this is a welcome attribute.

The bumper was pretty easy to install overall, the majority of the work done by Land Rover Las Vegas. The winch is a really tight fit and needed some trimming of the plastic air dam. You also need to cut the factory fender flare (scary). Measure about 10 times, then cut.

More pictures coming from Matt, who had the terrible job of driving the LR4 to Las Vegas and basically gambling and drinking for a few days while LRLV did the heavy lifting. Hopefully he will share his bribery story. A few pictures Matt took when not on the strip. (http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehicules/4x4/land-rover/1558-behind-the-scenes-land-rover-las-vegas.html)
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/news/lrlv/lrlv3.jpg

LtFuzz
10-24-2012, 10:45 PM
I love how the nay-sayers constantly point to the "new Land Rover corporate culture" and how it doesn't respect its heritage or its enthusiasts...

...yet how many vehicles has Land Rover donated to Overland Journal alone? And let's face it, while OJ certainly has risen to the top of a niche, it's still a small niche. We're not talking 4Wheeler circulation here.

Bravo, LR.

And sort of bitter-sweet on going from 25 techs to 6. Good that the vehicles are more reliable, but I also read that as 19 poor blokes getting laid off. I hope they were able to find work as LR techs elsewhere.

Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 11:12 PM
I love how the nay-sayers constantly point to the "new Land Rover corporate culture" and how it doesn't respect its heritage or its enthusiasts...


I am going to wait until we see the new Defender before I make a final judgement on the new LR corp. culture.

LtFuzz
10-24-2012, 11:20 PM
I am going to wait until we see the new Defender before I make a final judgement on the new LR corp. culture.

Ahem. I believe you are referring to the DC100! :sombrero:

Rovertrader
10-24-2012, 11:22 PM
Scott- did you source the Kaymar Stateside, or direct?

Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 11:34 PM
Scott- did you source the Kaymar Stateside, or direct?

Kaymar is working hard to bring inventory into the US. Ben from Outback Proven (http://outbackproven.com/c-324109-rear-protection.html) is the guy making it happen. The bumper was in stock!

Scott Brady
10-24-2012, 11:41 PM
We just installed an Eezi-Awn prototype roof rack. Aluminum and super light weight (only 40 lbs). I like some of the racks that follow the roofline a little better (visually), but I am super anal about roof loads and limit handling performance. I view that rack as reserve capacity only, or maybe a place to store some firewood temporarily. This rack is perfect for that purpose.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/176311_10151219426103914_1749719964_o.jpg

Sorry for these iPhone shots. We are going to take a bunch of detail images this Friday and will post them up.

LtFuzz
10-24-2012, 11:50 PM
Interesting choice... Kinda hard to tell from this angle, but my first impression is that it lacks a certain...aesthetic quality. What turned you away from the Voyager or Baja?

JAK
10-25-2012, 12:06 AM
What are our initial plans?

...
Ground Clearance:
1. Johnson Rods for 2.5" 'lift'. You basically gain 'normal mode' ride height clearance by stealing extension travel.
2. Taller tires. 32.5" diameter to start. 33.5" on 18s to follow.

I run 32's and they rub with a lift. I would really like to know what the plan is for the 33.5s

MattScott
10-25-2012, 12:23 AM
More pictures coming from Matt, who had the terrible job of driving the LR4 to Las Vegas and basically gambling and drinking for a few days while LRLV did the heavy lifting. Hopefully he will share his bribery story.

Ah, the bribery story.

So here's a tip—the next time you're checking into a big hotel, Vegas is a great example, when checking in try slipping the person behind the counter a $10 or $20 bill in between your ID and credit card. In doing so, ask if there are any complimentary upgrades. I usually do this when I book a basic room on Expedia for dirty cheap (they do not disclose the rate to the hotel staff.)

I've done it 3 times, it's worked three times. Once prior at Ceasars (Jacuzzi Suite) and twice this trip, initially at Harrahs the first night (penthouse suite, top floor) and at Paris (strip view luxury suite)

But yes, as Scott had previously said, I had the terrible job of hanging out in Las Vegas gambling, drinking, and hunting transient cougar. I highly suggest the Chandelier Bar at The Cosmopolitan and Tao at The Venetian.

Here's some behind the scenes images from LRLV when I wasn't on the strip:

...I really hope people understand the sarcasm.

http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr41.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr42.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr43.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr44.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr45.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr46.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr47.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr48.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr49.jpghttp://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr410.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr411.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr412.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr413.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr414.jpg
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/vehicles/lr4/lr415.jpg

Scott Brady
10-25-2012, 12:31 AM
Interesting choice... Kinda hard to tell from this angle, but my first impression is that it lacks a certain...aesthetic quality. What turned you away from the Voyager or Baja?

Aesthetically, it is benign, which I like. Simple and light weight. I do like the Voyager and Baja though, how they follow the roofline.

Scott Brady
10-25-2012, 12:35 AM
I run 32's and they rub with a lift. I would really like to know what the plan is for the 33.5s

http://www.powertoolsdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/dewalt-dw304pk-sabre-reciprocating-saw1050w-230-volt.jpg


Actually, it is not a bit deal, just takes some time and quality relocation/body work. In Iceland, they fit 35s and 37s on these trucks.

LR Max
10-25-2012, 12:40 AM
Dang. My friend makes adjustable rods to lift these trucks for cheap. Also as mentioned, they are adjustable. PM me for info.

PhyrraM
10-25-2012, 12:49 AM
As a fresh LR3 owner who chose the Rover as the best choice to tote Boy Scouts around and go camping and adventuring with my boys, I approve of this project. I am looking forward to seeing this project progress. Off to a good start it seems.


One question..Why the ARB bumper? (sponsership?) From reading various reviews it seems that opinions are split, at best. Many saying that some models are not as strong as others (no idea on the D3/4 ones though).

MattScott
10-25-2012, 01:12 AM
One question..Why the ARB bumper? (sponsership?) From reading various reviews it seems that opinions are split, at best. Many saying that some models are not as strong as others (no idea on the D3/4 ones though).

I actually believe it's the only bumper available in North America for the LR4.

ntan
10-25-2012, 01:17 AM
Are you adjusting the bump stops as well for the larger tires? If an airbag goes out and it settles down to the lowest level, might have a hard time clearing the larger tires.

Scott Brady
10-25-2012, 01:24 AM
Are you adjusting the bump stops as well for the larger tires? If an airbag goes out and it settles down to the lowest level, might have a hard time clearing the larger tires.

We have a cool plan for that, which will live in our recovery/tool kit. The tires work great right now, even at full travel.

Scott Brady
10-25-2012, 01:28 AM
iPhone sneak peak. This is about 99% of what it is going to be for level I. Clean and simple, I like it.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/664893_10151471470928275_140700406_o.jpg

PhyrraM
10-25-2012, 01:31 AM
Ah, I guess I assumed it was the same as a D3 because the gap below the headlights seems a bit wide and the grill seems to dip low behind it. Could be the angle of the shots though.

JAK
10-25-2012, 01:41 AM
We have a cool plan for that, which will live in our recovery/tool kit. The tires work great right now, even at full travel.

Looking forward to the cool plan, on long expedition trips I actually have been carrying an extra front and rear bag in my spares case. I have also made four valves that can be attached to the airline to do a manual inflate if need be. The trick was finding the 6mm fittings.

I hope that you will post pictures of what you cut. I have identified a few culprits but can't see how to get a 35 under there. Do you expect there to be any gearing issues? Quite a step up from stock 29's

Scott Brady
10-25-2012, 02:09 AM
Do you expect there to be any gearing issues? Quite a step up from stock 29's

Not really worried with a 6-speed auto and nearly 400hp.

Sgt Grunt
10-25-2012, 02:19 AM
Scott, Digging the LR4!!!

Just picked one up as well, love the sport mode!!! When I give up on the 80 series (when hell freezes over :sombrero:) I'm thinking about finding my Mrs something else and taking over our LR4 and seeing what its ready for.


127927

ntan
10-25-2012, 03:40 AM
We have a cool plan for that, which will live in our recovery/tool kit. The tires work great right now, even at full travel.

Looking forward to seeing your solution. If it works on the full size RR, even better!

huskyfargo
10-25-2012, 11:51 AM
I actually believe it's the only bumper available in North America for the LR4.

Actually, Tactical Rovers has a bumper for the LR4.
I have their bumper on my LR3. I was torn between the two, but ultimately I preferred the better approach angle, and replacing ALL of the plastic with metal.
Their LR4 bumper just hit the market a few weeks ago.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l618/huskyfargo/IMG_0559.jpg

ndrenfro
10-25-2012, 01:46 PM
I have built up my LR4 with many of the same mods you are working on. I would highly recommend the Rover Specialties rock sliders. These sliders are great because the go under the vehicle about a foot and thus protect the very important pump for the air suspension. With these sliders, a full set of skid plates, and bigger tires on 18" wheels, my LR4 did great in Moab earlier this year, tackling the trifecta of PSM/GS/GBR. The skids and underbody protection were essential as they got pretty beaten up.

127970

Did you consider the Devon 4x4 hidden winch mount? That is what i went with and have been really impressed. It keeps the look clean and simple. You dont lose any angles up front. And i believe it is what was on the Millionth Disco journey.

I look forward to seeing the progress of this build.

ndrenfro
10-25-2012, 01:53 PM
Also instead of trying to "fit" LR 18" wheels, you could just go with the Compomotive wheels which i believe are the only 18" wheels that will clear the brake calipers.

discotdi
10-25-2012, 06:11 PM
Also instead of trying to "fit" LR 18" wheels, you could just go with the Compomotive wheels which i believe are the only 18" wheels that will clear the brake calipers.

Where did you purchase those?

Humvette
10-25-2012, 08:15 PM
Great thread!!! I want one for my wife. We test drove one and really liked it. I would like it to be a pure Overland vehicle where my Hummer is a little extreme ;)

ndrenfro
10-25-2012, 11:16 PM
Where did you purchase those?

I think the only place to buy them is directly from Compomotive in the UK, which means high shipping costs. I got lucky though and bought them from someone in the US who decided he didn't want them.

Scott Brady
10-26-2012, 12:14 AM
We are pretty convinced that a factory 18" wheel will work on the LR4 with a few minor adjustments. We will post our findings.

khronus79
10-26-2012, 01:06 AM
Interested on seeing the 33.5"s and your solutions for their known problems. I'm debating on tire size right now and 33"s are on top of my list

ndrenfro
10-26-2012, 01:09 AM
We are pretty convinced that a factory 18" wheel will work on the LR4 with a few minor adjustments. We will post our findings.

I look forward to seeing what you guys have up your sleeves! Especially how to fit the bigger tires.

oryx
10-26-2012, 02:12 AM
Actually, Tactical Rovers has a bumper for the LR4.
I have their bumper on my LR3. I was torn between the two, but ultimately I preferred the better approach angle, and replacing ALL of the plastic with metal.
Their LR4 bumper just hit the market a few weeks ago.



That's a nice looking bumper. Probably more solidly built than the ARB too.

oryx
10-26-2012, 02:21 AM
What are our initial plans?

Protection: This truck needs protection to save the expensive sheetmetal.
1. ARB Front Bumper
2. Kaymar Rear Bumper
3. Aluminum Rocker Protection
4. Skid Plates for soft bits underneath

Ground Clearance:
1. Johnson Rods for 2.5" 'lift'. You basically gain 'normal mode' ride height clearance by stealing extension travel.
2. Taller tires. 32.5" diameter to start. 33.5" on 18s to follow.

Recovery:
1. Front and rear recovery points
2. Warn 9.5 winch with synthetic line

Loading and Lashing:
1. Custom drawer system for sleeping and equipment storage
2. Lashing points
3. Aluminum roof rack

Additional Items:
1. 50L Fridge (of course, and the fridge in the arm rest just isn't big enough for a few pounds of Ribeyes)
2. HID lights
3. Comprehensive recovery and tool kit
4. Full compliment of support equipment (we have learned a lot about what works from our round-the-world trip).
5. Seat covers
6. Navigation
7. 2M radio
8. Possibly an awning

We are also going to test out a few other projects, including fitting factory LR 18" wheels and constructing a polyurethane emergency 'lift kit' that we can install easily in the field should the air suspension fail or fault.

The most important decision is where we are going to take it first. I am thinking Southern Utah in December to stretch its legs a bit.

An LR3/4 set up like this must weigh 4 tons, maybe more with a full load of people. I remember when Jeremy Clarkson tested the LR3 he joked that if you fully load one and pull a trailer, you technically need the equivalent of a class B CDL to drive it on the road. With the Jaguar turbo diesel, Top Gear found it to be somewhat of a dog. True, the gas truck has 400 hp on tap, but pulling 4-5 tons, even that kind of power gets tamed pretty quickly.

nwoods
10-26-2012, 04:58 AM
If you'd like, I could test it out for you......

X-plorenow
10-26-2012, 04:42 PM
Hey I use that lift kit too! :sombrero:




http://www.powertoolsdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/dewalt-dw304pk-sabre-reciprocating-saw1050w-230-volt.jpg


Actually, it is not a bit deal, just takes some time and quality relocation/body work. In Iceland, they fit 35s and 37s on these trucks.

perkj
10-26-2012, 05:26 PM
and constructing a polyurethane emergency 'lift kit' that we can install easily in the field should the air suspension fail or fault.

very interested in this...can you expand on what this "lift kit" is and will do?

Scott Brady
10-26-2012, 05:41 PM
very interested in this...can you expand on what this "lift kit" is and will do?

We want to prove out the concept, but it will be a series of tall polyurethane (progressive) bump stops that can be installed between the a-arm and frame, allowing a slow-speed extraction option for the vehicle. The goal is to ensure confidence while traveling, even if the air suspension fails that we can get back to the road and a town for proper repair.

We promise to detail the entire kit and process once proven out.

perkj
10-26-2012, 06:37 PM
We want to prove out the concept, but it will be a series of tall polyurethane (progressive) bump stops that can be installed between the a-arm and frame, allowing a slow-speed extraction option for the vehicle. The goal is to ensure confidence while traveling, even if the air suspension fails that we can get back to the road and a town for proper repair.

We promise to detail the entire kit and process once proven out.


Sounds promising. Below are a couple pics of my LR3...rear swing arm was custom made by LR forum member and myself. For the LR3/4 platform, what are you looking to do with the rig to actually drive the need for 32.5s or 33.5s? If you're wanting to do some rock crawling or tackle the Rubicon, then it makes sense, if not I think you're wasting your time/money as 31.5s will get you thru just about anything you can throw at it besides rock crawling & the Rubicon.....the combination of 31.5s and the LR traction control system is quite eye opening in terms of what it can tackle. Also, be aware that just going from the stock tire size to 31.5s kills the corrected MPGs on the LR3 from 19-20ish to 14-15ish. So keep this in mind as 33.5s will drive that even lower.

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/05/01/15915010_large.jpg

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/61/08/15701680_large.jpg

MattScott
10-26-2012, 06:41 PM
A few behind the scenes images from the Overland Journal facebook page. "Like us" here. (www.facebook.com/OverlandJournal)

128215
128216

perkj
10-26-2012, 06:50 PM
if you are planning on adding some driving lights to the LR4 either on the ARB bumper or the roof rack, here is a write up I did on another LR forum that details how you can get the optional factory driving light switch wired up:

Over the weekend I fitted the Factory Lr3 2nd driving light switch to my IPF 960 driving lights. This is the switched used with the factor driving light kit and the good news is that switch and mounting kit available seperately from the $700+ driving light kit. I figured I post a quick How-To since it took me quite a while to figure out the 5 pins coming out for the switch in order to get everything to work (i.e. driving lights on/off, lighting of the switch with dimming, and the orange light illumination when the switch is on) since I wasn't able to find the factory wire diagram for the new switch itself.


Below are the part numbers you need and I purchased mine from parts.com as they are the cheapest place I could find for these factory parts.

VUB502860 - Fitting/Mounting kit for Driving Lght Switch. Includes templates, mount, cover, & instructions to mount the switch
(note: the fittmet instructions can also be found on TOPIX in the "Driving Light Kit" instructions)

XKB500080 - Driving Light Switch

The two parts above should come to just under $50 + shipping and you need both of them.

Below is the wire diagram to make it super simple to wire everything up. (DISCLAIMER: this wire diagram worked on my North American 2008 LR3 HSE, I assume it should work on all LR3s per the Factory wiring diagram I referenced, but you assume all risk if you choose to give it a go):

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/63/43/15543634_large.jpg


Pics of the install:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/63/23/15543632_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/63/13/15543631_large.jpg


Note: you will need to cut into the dash, just to the left of the Nav screen. Not a big deal to do and the cover that you get with the fitting kit covers the cut to make it pretty as you see in the photos above.

Scott Brady
10-27-2012, 07:22 PM
All ready for SEMA. I am looking forward to getting the truck (really) dirty and seeing how these new Land Rovers hold-up to real world exploration.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/665158_10151227105383914_1305347207_o.jpg

Here is a quick shot of the rear drawer system and sleeping platform. It allows easy use of the two rear side seats (the fridge stays in place), as those boxes remove in just a few minutes. The drawers should hold all of my kit with maybe just a few soft bags of clothes and bedding lashed in the back.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/550572_10151476644613275_665530473_n.jpg

JimBiram
10-27-2012, 09:37 PM
As an alternative, or a supplement to the Johnson Rods for the lift, you might look into Gap-Diagnostic II-D Controller, which I have been using on my LR3 for quite some time. It gives full control of the suspension, reads and clears faults, and allows you to see live values, all on the center display above the steering wheel. The LR4 version is in development now, and should have some beta units available if you contact Patrick Melleur. I keep my Johnson Rods available in case of problems, but now have the ability to lift the vehicle when I need to before hitting the trail.

nwoods
10-27-2012, 10:41 PM
As an alternative, or a supplement to the Johnson Rods for the lift, you might look into Gap-Diagnostic II-D Controller, which I have been using on my LR3 for quite some time. It gives full control of the suspension, reads and clears faults, and allows you to see live values, all on the center display above the steering wheel. The LR4 version is in development now, and should have some beta units available if you contact Patrick Melleur. I keep my Johnson Rods available in case of problems, but now have the ability to lift the vehicle when I need to before hitting the trail.
I highly endorse this. I have seen Jim's GAP unit in use and it's fantastic. It's a fraction of the cost of the Faultmate and does everything you need it to do. Super easy to plug into the OBDIII port under the dash, and you control the settings through the steering wheel controls for cruise and volume, and the GUI is the message center right in front of you. I think it's a lot better solution to dial in an inch or so of lift and run 32" tires than to fiddle with a rod and potentially add stress to your CVs if you dont need to. You just have so much more control with the electronic gadget than you do with rods. Plus, you can clear faults, monitor just about everything happening to your vehicle, and change settings and programming on the fly. It is the single best tool you can have in your toolbox if you own and WHEEL in a modern Rover....or get a Faultmate. Those are also awesome, but they are very pricey.

Ryanmb21
10-27-2012, 10:54 PM
Wow Scott! Truck is looking great and so are those drawers!

draaronr
10-27-2012, 11:58 PM
I highly endorse this. I have seen Jim's GAP unit in use and it's fantastic. It's a fraction of the cost of the Faultmate and does everything you need it to do. Super easy to plug into the OBDIII port under the dash, and you control the settings through the steering wheel controls for cruise and volume, and the GUI is the message center right in front of you. I think it's a lot better solution to dial in an inch or so of lift and run 32" tires than to fiddle with a rod and potentially add stress to your CVs if you dont need to. You just have so much more control with the electronic gadget than you do with rods. Plus, you can clear faults, monitor just about everything happening to your vehicle, and change settings and programming on the fly. It is the single best tool you can have in your toolbox if you own and WHEEL in a modern Rover....or get a Faultmate. Those are also awesome, but they are very pricey.
Contact info for this?

JimBiram
10-28-2012, 12:40 AM
Www.gap-diagnostic.com is the mfg. website. They are sold in the US through Atlantic-British. http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/DA6405.cfm is for the LR3. They are still testing units for LR4. Contact Gap through their website.

ChuckB
10-28-2012, 12:16 PM
As a Cruiser owner, the LR3/4 has caught my eye. What Rover forums would you recommend to learn more about these trucks?

Ronct110
10-28-2012, 08:33 PM
Very nice! Great job!

128485

nwoods
10-28-2012, 09:24 PM
As a Cruiser owner, the LR3/4 has caught my eye. What Rover forums would you recommend to learn more about these trucks?

I made a listing of the top forums that have good content on LR3/LR4's on my wiki page:
http://lr3tips.wordpress.com/top-sites/

I hope for the day when ExPo can be on this list. It's getting there!

perkj
10-29-2012, 04:01 PM
Matt - can you take a picture of the Kaymar swing out from the side like the 1st picture I've posted below? I'd like to see how the spare tire on the Kaymar swing arm sits against the hatch-line. Can you also take one looking straight at the back, like the 2nd picture I've posted below, curious how high the tire sits and how much of the tail light it covers

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/61/48/15701684_large.jpg

http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/61/87/15701678_large.jpg

RNPhoto
10-29-2012, 04:02 PM
Matt - can you take a picture of the Kaymar swing out from the side like the picture I've posted below? I'd like to see how the spare tire on the Kaymar swing arm sits against the hatch-line:

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/61/48/15701684_large.jpg

Haha what are those lamp guards even protecting??? There's almost no guard...

perkj
10-29-2012, 04:09 PM
Haha what are those lamp guards even protecting??? There's almost no guard...

Got them used on ebay for $30, figured it was worth trying them out since they go for over $300 from Land Rover dealer

RNPhoto
10-29-2012, 04:39 PM
Haha they look good, just the protection they offer is questionable. If a branch swung horizontally there's not much protecting the lens.

Scott Brady
10-29-2012, 04:58 PM
Another shot of some early suspension testing on the rocks near our office. I am very curious of how well this truck will perform on serious terrain - we are going to find out soon.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/178279_10151480722978275_709243082_o.jpg

no-pistons
10-29-2012, 06:39 PM
How are those boxes attached to the roof rack? I don't see any straps holding them, but I see something underneath?

zolo
10-29-2012, 06:48 PM
I like it, looks clean...

RNPhoto
10-29-2012, 07:49 PM
First, great photo, that is awesome. Second, I am super jealous you have such a nice area to offroad near where you are. In VT it's just mud.

Scott Brady
10-29-2012, 08:28 PM
How are those boxes attached to the roof rack? I don't see any straps holding them, but I see something underneath?

It is the new (EO)2 mounting system. Locks in place and removes in about 5 seconds. We have only just installed them, but have not completed a proper test. They look pretty strong, but we need to evaluate for a period of time to determine if it rattles, etc.
http://eo2.us/

cosmiccharlie
10-29-2012, 09:18 PM
What are your storage drawers made out of? Is it just plywood coated in some sort of bedliner? I like the look!

Scott Brady
10-29-2012, 11:41 PM
What are your storage drawers made out of? Is it just plywood coated in some sort of bedliner? I like the look!

They are made of lightweight, aerospace composite panels.

ChuckB
10-30-2012, 12:08 AM
Thank you !
I made a listing of the top forums that have good content on LR3/LR4's on my wiki page:
http://lr3tips.wordpress.com/top-sites/

I hope for the day when ExPo can be on this list. It's getting there!

draaronr
10-30-2012, 12:42 AM
the Kaymar is nice, but does anyone make a rear bumper with a swing away tire carrier, and a real hitch?

oryx
10-30-2012, 01:07 AM
the Kaymar is nice, but does anyone make a rear bumper with a swing away tire carrier, and a real hitch?

I thought the Kaymar had those standard, or at least an option. All the ones I've seen did anyway.

draaronr
10-30-2012, 01:11 AM
I thought the Kaymar had those standard, or at least an option. All the ones I've seen did anyway.
i don't see it on their site, do tell

Scott Brady
10-30-2012, 01:24 AM
I thought the Kaymar had those standard, or at least an option. All the ones I've seen did anyway.

Correct. The Kaymar can have a single or dual swing out and has a provision for a hitch. It can also be configured to carry fuel or water on one side and a light, along with a hilift. We are only going to use the single swingout.

draaronr
10-30-2012, 01:27 AM
Correct. The Kaymar can have a single or dual swing out and has a provision for a hitch. It can also be configured to carry fuel or water on one side and a light, along with a hilift. We are only going to use the single swingout.

Do you have pics? Id want single swing away. Hitch and hilift mount.

nwoods
10-30-2012, 03:42 AM
I have always wondered why companies put the swing out on the right (passenger side). Part of the brilliance in the LR3 design is the swoop of the lower right corner in the rear window. Awesome for backing up and looking over your shoulder, and fantastic for reaching deeper into the cargo area, or ducking out of the rain while tailgating. Putting the tire carrier on that side blocks your view, and when parked along a curb, hinders loading and unloading the vehicle. It just seems so much more logical to put the swing out on the left (driver) side where it blocks nothing but the license plate, which can be easily relocated. Why is it that no one does this?

Scott Brady
10-30-2012, 05:07 AM
. Why is it that no one does this?

Looks.

We chose the passenger side swing on a LHD purely for aesthetic reasons. Most of LR history reflects a RHD design consideration (the reason a DI rear door swings towards the road as opposed to a curb). The tire on a right swing covers the window dip, which I find to be a visual flaw with the design (along with the clear tail lamps) of the LR3/LR4.


Awesome for backing up and looking over your shoulder

You should not look over your shoulder while backing. Use the mirrors.

The LR4 also has a color BU camera.

LtFuzz
10-30-2012, 05:16 AM
Scott -- does that last picture reflect the LR4 at stock max ride height? Or do you have the extended suspension mod you mentioned earlier installed?

Really looking closely at LR4s these days as 2011s with a few miles are coming down into the range of mortal men.

Is it just me or does the LR4 look a bit more slim than the LR3?

nwoods
10-30-2012, 06:04 AM
Is it just me or does the LR4 look a bit more slim than the LR3?

Same size, but the different paint configurations with the body color fenders, mirrors and bumpers does have a slenderizing effect I think. Plus the blacked out lower trim.

nwoods
10-30-2012, 06:11 AM
You should not look over your shoulder while backing. Use the mirrors.

...says the man with no kids in his driveway.

I guess you learned from Mator? LOL

http://youtu.be/HA6xXNToFas

WKexpedition
10-31-2012, 01:08 AM
Awesome build. Very clean!!

SSF556
10-31-2012, 02:57 AM
Wow talk about a heavy setup.....I am betting fully loaded with 2 people, full tank of gas, all the armor...this vehicle will be close to 7300 pounds if not more..will be interesting to see what fuel economy and range are.

My WK CRD fully loaded with 2 people, 50# dog, 15 gallons of water, full tank of diesel weighed in at 6100 pounds.


Edit...I did spend a week in a LR3 as a contestant in the G4 Challenge....and I could tell weight was one of the few disadvantages with the LR3.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

traveltoad
11-01-2012, 04:08 AM
...says the man with no kids in his driveway.


Said the man with no Land Rover in his driveway.

nwoods
11-01-2012, 04:32 AM
Said the man with no Land Rover in his driveway.


Oh man. Well played Aaron. Well played.
:-)

1leglance
11-01-2012, 04:57 AM
I would also like to see a camping ready wgt with 2 people....it would be funny if it was more than my burb (1 person camping ready 6800lbs, 2 people 7100lbs)

Scott Brady
11-04-2012, 07:37 PM
Scott -- does that last picture reflect the LR4 at stock max ride height? Or do you have the extended suspension mod you mentioned earlier installed?


That is in off-road height, which is not extended mode. Extended mode is accessed automatically when the vehicle is high-centered.

Scott Brady
11-04-2012, 07:38 PM
Wow talk about a heavy setup.....I am betting fully loaded with 2 people, full tank of gas, all the armor...this vehicle will be close to 7300 pounds if not more..

I will try to weigh it this week.

spikemd
11-05-2012, 04:33 PM
Scott, did you get the HD package on your LR4? The "active"/locking rear diff is a great option for serious offroad trails.

We are looking at getting a used LR4 next year. The updated interior over the LR3 is a nice upgrade.

Breadfan
11-15-2012, 12:05 AM
Nice rig, super stoked to see you building this as I am in the beginning of kitting our out LR3. I will add some pics after this weekend as we are putting on sliders with outriggers, a complete underbody kit from ASFIR and Johnson Rods.

Question:
Did you have to do a four wheel alignment after installing the rods?

JAK
11-15-2012, 12:59 AM
I would also like to see a camping ready wgt with 2 people....it would be funny if it was more than my burb (1 person camping ready 6800lbs, 2 people 7100lbs)

I know that with the roof tent, gas, spares, kid and dog we are approaching epic weight levels.

nwoods
11-15-2012, 01:38 AM
Question:
Did you have to do a four wheel alignment after installing the rods?

Yes absolutely.

MattScott
11-15-2012, 02:33 AM
I would also like to see a camping ready wgt with 2 people....it would be funny if it was more than my burb (1 person camping ready 6800lbs, 2 people 7100lbs)

To pull a "Lance"

How does one person need 300 additional pounds of camping gear...?

;)

Breadfan
11-15-2012, 03:46 AM
Yes absolutely.

thank you sir

EricTyrrell
11-15-2012, 08:34 PM
Official Land Rover technical document regarding axles:
http://s7.postimage.org/d62r6fukb/RAVE_axles.png

RNPhoto
11-15-2012, 09:08 PM
^The second diagram is only true if your independent suspension is not adequate for the weight of your vehicle, or if you're upside down.

PhyrraM
11-15-2012, 10:06 PM
Official Land Rover technical document regarding axles:

From when?

Scott Brady
11-15-2012, 11:25 PM
Question:
Did you have to do a four wheel alignment after installing the rods?

Yes, and I would recommend saving yourself the trouble and having it done at a dealership. The local alignment shop got it about 50% correct, then Land Rover Las Vegas got is 100% within range.

Scott Brady
11-15-2012, 11:28 PM
Official Land Rover technical document regarding axles:


It just depends on the scenario. Sometimes a solid axle is better (primarily in technical terrain) and sometimes independent is better (primarily at speed).

For the Rubicon, no doubt a solid axle is preferred.

discotdi
11-16-2012, 03:04 AM
Except Land Rover uses cross linked air suspension which mimics a solid axle but allows for even greater articulation.
Genius really. So a new modern LR gives you the best of both worlds. Excellent on road and off.

PhyrraM
11-16-2012, 04:00 AM
Deeply worn, rutted or muddy "twin tracks" are a pretty common occurance where the newer independant suspension really outshines the solid axles for me. Only bigger tires will help clearance on a solid axle truck in such a situation. The LR3 just raises over the high center that would have gotten my old Montero (w/33" tires) dragging the pumpkin.

nwoods
11-16-2012, 04:52 AM
Yes, and I would recommend saving yourself the trouble and having it done at a dealership. The local alignment shop got it about 50% correct, then Land Rover Las Vegas got is 100% within range.

Here is the alignment procedure (might be outdated now?)
http://lr3tips.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/new-tire-alignment-specs-for-the-lr3/

1leglance
11-16-2012, 05:18 AM
To pull a "Lance"

How does one person need 300 additional pounds of camping gear...?

;)

The person them self = 150lbs
Extra food/water to cover 3 days = 40lbs
Sleeping back/pad/clothes/chair = 20lbs
Pop up awning, fire pit, propane tank, and other goodies you bring when your wife is along = 50lbs

So you are right it is 260lbs but I could swear I remember the 6800 & 7100 numbers...so it might have been 6890 or something high and a low 7100's so less than 300lbs.

But I tell you what..... I will throw down a challenge.
I am taking the wife & younger son camping after Thanksgiving. We will have 3 people, gear, food & water to cover 3 days.
If Scott or any other OJ/Expo person will pack up the LR with a 2 person load and wgt it with 2 people I will do the same on my end and we can each post up pics of the wgt tickets.
To make it worth the time I will mail up a goodie pack of cuban cigars for the OJ team :)

SteveMfr
11-16-2012, 11:00 AM
As an alternative, or a supplement to the Johnson Rods for the lift, you might look into Gap-Diagnostic II-D Controller, which I have been using on my LR3 for quite some time. It gives full control of the suspension, reads and clears faults, and allows you to see live values, all on the center display above the steering wheel. The LR4 version is in development now, and should have some beta units available if you contact Patrick Melleur. I keep my Johnson Rods available in case of problems, but now have the ability to lift the vehicle when I need to before hitting the trail.
I highly endorse this. I have seen Jim's GAP unit in use and it's fantastic. It's a fraction of the cost of the Faultmate and does everything you need it to do. Super easy to plug into the OBDIII port under the dash, and you control the settings through the steering wheel controls for cruise and volume, and the GUI is the message center right in front of you. I think it's a lot better solution to dial in an inch or so of lift and run 32" tires than to fiddle with a rod and potentially add stress to your CVs if you dont need to. You just have so much more control with the electronic gadget than you do with rods. Plus, you can clear faults, monitor just about everything happening to your vehicle, and change settings and programming on the fly. It is the single best tool you can have in your toolbox if you own and WHEEL in a modern Rover....or get a Faultmate. Those are also awesome, but they are very pricey.
Thanks for the kudos, guys. I am actually quite happy to see it mentioned here on ExPo. We at GAP-Diagnostic are a bunch of LR enthusiasts - and using the IIDTool in this sort of environment is exactly what we had envisioned when we created it. Modern LR's are fantastic vehicles but traveling to remote places without a dealer nearby to help with vehicles stuffed full of electronics can be daunting. Even having to carry a PC (as with most diagnostic systems) is a bit of a risk.

The IIDTool for the LR4 has not yet reached production status, but we do have quite a number in beta test use. Functionality on the IIDTool has been increased dramatically over the past several months as well: as of the coming firmware release there is not much that a Faultmate or even LR's IDS/SDD can do that an IIDTool won't be able to do.

I'd love to post a quick vid of the latest functions displayed in an LR4 cluster, but we are not (yet) sponsors here on the board. I've sent the link to MattScott and if he feels it's appropriate, he can post the link.

Scott, I love the OJ LR4. I was given the opportunity of test driving one at the LR Experience Center in Germany a couple of weeks ago (my first drive in an LR4) - very impressive. It really makes it all extremely easy. And while the merits of a simple vehicle as in your first post in this thread (solid axle, coil sprung, next to no electronics, etc) in overland travel are obvious, there is also much that speaks for the modern vehicles precisely because they are stuffed with electronics: comfort, economy, safety, and less pollution. These are all no longer in the same ballpark as on older vehicles. Making the electronics compatible with harsh environmental conditions and no local service/support is a challenge, though. I am very curious to see how you progress with your travels in the LR4. We (wife and I) would like to take our RR L322 down through Africa to Namibia in a year or two...

NWoods, I remember reading on your site a couple of years ago when I first joined up here (really enjoyed your travel logs). Just out of curiosity: why are you Roverless at the moment?

Scott Brady
11-16-2012, 06:45 PM
But I tell you what..... I will throw down a challenge.
I am taking the wife & younger son camping after Thanksgiving. We will have 3 people, gear, food & water to cover 3 days.
If Scott or any other OJ/Expo person will pack up the LR with a 2 person load and wgt it with 2 people I will do the same on my end and we can each post up pics of the wgt tickets.
To make it worth the time I will mail up a goodie pack of cuban cigars for the OJ team :)

Deal! So we put two people and all camping gear in the LR4 or just the two people?

nwoods
11-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Deal! So we put two people and all camping gear in the LR4 or just the two people?

I believe he said 2 people + gear:


If Scott or any other OJ/Expo person will pack up the LR with a 2 person load and wgt it with 2 people ...

nwoods
11-16-2012, 10:29 PM
NWoods, I remember reading on your site a couple of years ago when I first joined up here (really enjoyed your travel logs). Just out of curiosity: why are you Roverless at the moment?

Thank you. While my trip reports have all been retired with the closed down websites, I have reposted the technical content to "lr3tips.wordpress.com", which is now looking for a new evangelist to keep the database current......my old (and current) photos are still available through "nwoods.smugmug.com"

Why am I Roverless? I ask myself this almost everyday ... There are 2 reasons:
1. Money. In 2008 the architectural profession was hit hard by this economy, and non essential expenses, such as the LR3, were unsustainable. We sold everything, hunkered down and did our best just to survive.

Things are a little better now. We have a deep hole to climb out of, but we are climbing. I could possibly afford a used 2006/2007 LR3 right now, but....

2. Money. 12-14mpg of "Premium only" does not work well with my +25,000 mile annual usage. Plus, the accessories I need to properly protect the LR3 from the way I'd use it all cost more than I can afford now. And the simple fact that the LR3, while very reliable, is not inexpensive to own, maintain, and operate. I just can't afford to drive one, even though I could maybe afford to purchase one.

I wish I could. I miss my 3 every single day. By far the best, most pleasurable vehicle I've ever owned, but its not on my horizon for a while. Total cost of ownership is just not viable yet.

Scott Brady
11-17-2012, 12:15 AM
Thanks for the kudos, guys. I am actually quite happy to see it mentioned here on ExPo. We at GAP-Diagnostic are a bunch of LR enthusiasts - and using the IIDTool in this sort of environment is exactly what we had envisioned when we created it.

I do like the idea of clearing faults and being able to run at a higher speed in a higher setting. Fast, sandy two-track comes to mind. I remember being in Australia with a Discovery 3 that would beep incessantly anytime we exceeded about 30 kph, then lower the car. That was a long road at those speeds.

SteveMfr
11-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Scott,
Yeah - we get a lot of requests for raising the off road speed limit from Australia. And I know exactly how much of a PITA the speed limit can be even w/o hundreds of miles of outback in front of me. I use the bong and the drop to standard height as a terrain indicator: if I hear the bong and the suspension drops to standard height there will be an obstacle requiring additional clearance within the next couple of meters - guaranteed :-p.
TBH, though, this is one item we have not yet implemented. We have talked about it but discussions with our lawyers on liability issues have stopped us till now. What you can do, of course, is to use the IIDTool (or our other LR product, the EASControl) to raise the standard height of the suspension. You can get quite a bit of additional clearance this way and, in contrast to rods, you can go back to stock height in a matter of seconds w/o leaving the car. We have included 3 memory slots for different height 'profiles' so you can switch from the 'outback' profile to the 'street' profile (or to the 'oversize tire'/whatever profile).

I could post a link to a vid showing a height change in a LR3... Would posting the vids be inappropriate?

NWoods,
I can feel for you. My 'day job' is doing PR / business development / and legal consulting. We have really felt the crunch as well. I hope that GAP Diagnostic will be able to pay my bills in the not too distant future.
You could take a look at an older MKIII RR. It is just as capable as an LR3 off road and early ones have come down in price quite a bit - and will prob come down even more when the new L405 RR becomes more prevalent. That would leave more money for repairs and fuel. It really is too bad the diesel never made it to the US. We average close to 25mpg with ours.

ChuckB
11-17-2012, 06:34 PM
Please post some vids!!!

Scott Brady
11-17-2012, 06:36 PM
We found a set of 18" wheels from an LR3 and will begin the process of making them work on the LR4. The ideal size would be a 265/70 R18 in an LT All-Terrain (about 32.6" actual diameter), but I am having trouble finding the tire I want in that size. There are some tires available in a 275/70, which would be over 33" actual height (33.2"). I am quite tempted to make them work. . .

This truck really needs 18" wheels and LT tires before we attempt any real trail/exploration work, so it is a top priority at the moment.

Scott Brady
11-17-2012, 06:45 PM
Here are a few videos I found on Youtube of the IIDTool. Hopefully Steve will post a few more


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjF8XKQSGY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7NBnN30hn0

Here is the EASControl Tool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXzFDaiSmhM

Scott Brady
11-17-2012, 09:17 PM
So, I weighed the LR4 today to form a baseline of the discussion.

A stock LR4 is 5,617
The gross weight is 7,143
Payload is 1,325

I weighed the truck on a local scale today with all of the modifications shown, plus a 3/4 tank of fuel, a set of four MaxTrax and 312 lbs. of 18" tires and wheels in the back. I was in the vehicle at 235lbs. I would say the weight is pretty consistent with a travelling load for me, but without a passenger. When I get the truck all finished and loaded for a trip, I will make sure Steph is in the car and will weigh it again.
131345
Pretty funny how it hit 7,000 lbs. exactly. What is even more amazing is how well the truck handles, stops and accelerates with that load. There are some benefits to modern vehicle design. . .

SteveMfr
11-17-2012, 10:30 PM
Here are a few videos I found on Youtube of the IIDTool. Hopefully Steve will post a few more

Thanks, Scott! The last vid "RRS lowering" is the one I wanted to post showing raising/lowering the EAS. This is the EASControl on a RRSport, but the RRS and LR3 are more or less the same electronics-wise and the EAS functions are the same in the IIDTool. The EASControl has only the EAS functionality of the IIDTool for people who would like to play with the suspension but have no need or desire for full diagnostics.

This is the other vid I wanted to post: it shows the menu of the IIDTool on an LR4 with the rest of the functions that were missing previously (e.g. some service routines such as EPB or SAS calib., 'Control I/O' to manually control components). There is no longer really a serious difference to much more expensive systems. BTW, controls for the IIDTool are the cruise control switches: resume= enter, speed+=menu/value up, speed-=menu/value down, cancel=back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulBVDqCXGDM

Scott Brady
11-17-2012, 10:43 PM
Does it have any control or ability to adjust the TPMS?

JimBiram
11-18-2012, 02:24 AM
Nathan, I sure wish you were back on the trail with an LR3...it's always good to have you along. I'll keep the passenger seat open for you any time!

Fivespddisco
11-18-2012, 03:42 AM
Does it have any control or ability to adjust the TPMS?



I dont think it would. Are you just trying to turn the light off or having some other issue with lower pressure?

Scott Brady
11-18-2012, 03:48 AM
I dont think it would. Are you just trying to turn the light off or having some other issue with lower pressure?
Just turn the warning or system off

SteveMfr
11-18-2012, 09:03 AM
Actually, we can turn TPMS off. This was very well received in Europe. :-p

There are a large number of features that can be altered or modified in the CCF - car configuration files. This includes little items such as the key-in-ignition warning chime when the driver's door is opened, the low temperature (ice) warning chime, etc. and goes to more well known items such as lazy locking, single point of entry, daytime running lights, to items such as TPMS, park heat functions (diesel), nav on the move (entering destinations while driving), etc.

The CCF functions are items that have been programmed into the various ECUs by LR. We are only giving access to these 'soft switches' via the IIDTool, and we can allow items to be changed that were not programmed into the OEM IDS/SDD systems so that we can offer more of these options than the dealers can.

In contrast to the CCF settings, making changes to items such as the off road height speed limit is not simply flipping a 'soft switch' - it is actually reprogramming and writing the new values into the code in the EAS ECU (as LR did not leave this as an option in the EAS ECU). Reprogramming ECUs is not always possible either, though. The amount of effort required to reverse engineer the sw is often simply too great.

But as we are a small co. and enthusiasts ourselves, if there is something that people would like to be able to do we will definitely listen. And if it can be done and causes no other issues (including non-technical issues such as liability concerns), we will do our best to make it happen.

nwoods
11-18-2012, 02:04 PM
Nav on the move is pretty cool! A lot of people have been bummed ever since LR patched the old maintainence hack that used to allow that.

Mack73
11-18-2012, 03:39 PM
Nav on the move is pretty cool! A lot of people have been bummed ever since LR patched the old maintainence hack that used to allow that.

Yes. Is this in the firmware that's available now, or in a future version?


Oh and get rid of the stupid nav disclaimer that I have to accept every time ......

Scott Brady
11-18-2012, 05:19 PM
Actually, we can turn TPMS off. This was very well received in Europe. :-p


SOLD!

discotdi
11-18-2012, 07:10 PM
Nav on the move is pretty cool! A lot of people have been bummed ever since LR patched the old maintainence hack that used to allow that.

Nav on the go has been back via factory settings since mid 2011.

Scott Brady
11-18-2012, 07:44 PM
Nav on the go has been back via factory settings since mid 2011.

Yeah, it works fine in the LR4

Breadfan
11-21-2012, 04:30 PM
Can you post pics of your underbody protection next time you get it on a rack?

Sleeping Dog
11-22-2012, 11:34 PM
All ready for SEMA. I am looking forward to getting the truck (really) dirty and seeing how these new Land Rovers hold-up to real world exploration.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/665158_10151227105383914_1305347207_o.jpg

Here is a quick shot of the rear drawer system and sleeping platform. It allows easy use of the two rear side seats (the fridge stays in place), as those boxes remove in just a few minutes. The drawers should hold all of my kit with maybe just a few soft bags of clothes and bedding lashed in the back.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/550572_10151476644613275_665530473_n.jpg

Scott, how did you secure the drawer unit, did you simply bolt it to the existing tie down points?

Also very interested in learning how you fit 18" wheels.

Jim

Scott Brady
11-24-2012, 05:28 PM
Can you post pics of your underbody protection next time you get it on a rack?

We are still evaluating options. I am open to suggestions.

Several options, but none that I can from particularly reputable companies.

Scott Brady
11-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Scott, how did you secure the drawer unit, did you simply bolt it to the existing tie down points?

Also very interested in learning how you fit 18" wheels.

Jim

The drawer system uses the factory lashing points (4) and is currently rattle-free.

The big test of the 18s happen this coming week. We will make them work, one way or another. It is all this car really needs for real trail work. The 20s look nice, but will put the truck at a serious disadvantage on anything technical.

nwoods
11-24-2012, 06:17 PM
We are still evaluating options. I am open to suggestions.

Several options, but none that I can from particularly reputable companies.

Tactical Rovers
Lucky 8
Rover Specialties
Mantec
Asifr
Rasta4x4

flyfish007
11-25-2012, 06:36 AM
Scott,

I really like the way the LR4 is looking. Question for you: I noticed that your Lr4 doesn't have the satellite antenna hump on the roof like every other LR4 does. How did you manage that - did you remove the old one or order it without the right combination of stuff? I was told there is no way not to get that on the LR4, so mine has it...but I would like to remove it. Any tips you can toss my way are appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

1leglance
11-25-2012, 08:15 PM
Well we are back from our Black Friday to Sunday Adventure and of course on the way out of town we hit the scales to get a comparison for the Overland Journal LR4 project.

You will see 4 rigs so that folks can get a good idea of traveling wgt:
5920 lb on the left Bundu Gear Lexus GX 5920 (1 person & 1 Golden Retriever)
6060lb next Waymon - TexGX with a Lexus GX (1 person and a bunch of stuff)
6675 lb my blue 1970 Suburban (2 ppl, guns, bike, and a bunch of stuff)
7820 lb Nick - Nobin with the orange 1972 Suburban
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L5f-hD11uqU/ULKJDYVH0wI/AAAAAAAABfo/nRERsNncj7o/s500/saltriveraztekpeak-1.jpg

So I have a GVWR of 7500lbs and I am running down the trail with 40 gal of fuel, 5 gal of water, 63L ARB fridge, dual batteries, and actually loaded for 3 people (wife didn't go at the last minute) and plenty of gear.
Might good comparison of old vs new.

Oh and I will get a package out to the OJ HQ with some Habanos Monday just for playing the game.

perkj
11-26-2012, 03:50 PM
We want to prove out the concept, but it will be a series of tall polyurethane (progressive) bump stops that can be installed between the a-arm and frame, allowing a slow-speed extraction option for the vehicle. The goal is to ensure confidence while traveling, even if the air suspension fails that we can get back to the road and a town for proper repair.

We promise to detail the entire kit and process once proven out.

Scott....any update/progress on this?

Clark White
12-02-2012, 05:45 AM
Lookie who I ran into on the trail today!
http://clarkwhite.smugmug.com/Other/Camera-Awesome-Photos/i-8XPnLCn/0/L/CA_12011223240078-L.jpg (http://clarkwhite.smugmug.com/Other/Camera-Awesome-Photos/26841296_dS2tfX#!i=2248476451&k=8XPnLCn&lb=1&s=A)

Clark

nwoods
12-02-2012, 06:23 AM
OMG, what was Scott thinking? He took the fragile computer laden LR4 out into the rocks, where recovery is iffy and LR Assistace can't be reached by cellphone? My God, does he realize just how close to dying he might have been?

LOL, I'd love to hear Scotts observations between the Trek D2 and the LR4. I'll bet we'll hear things about visibility, turn radius, nimbleness, brake control, traction, low range gearing and articulation, and how all those things excel compared to a stock D2...

Scott Brady
12-09-2012, 05:04 PM
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(1).jpg

Here is my assessment from the first trail run:

The Great
1. The turning radius on the LR4 is shockingly good. At only 37 FEET, I can easily do a U-Turn between our two buildings at the office, which seems impossible looking at it. A Defender 110, which has a shorter wheelbase requires 44 FEET to complete a turning circle. A Defender 90, which is significantly shorter requires 40 FEET. A Rubicon Unlimited requires 41.2 FEET. This helps the LR4 feel more nimble on the trail than it should be.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(7).jpg

The Good
1. I really like the Kaymar rear bumper system. It is simple and clean, complimenting the lines of the truck and relocating the tire to the bumper.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4.jpg

2. Running ground clearance in 'off-road' mode is over 12"
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(11).jpg

3. The hill decent control is the best we have tested, lacking the 'grabby' and jerky feedback of previous implementations. It is smooth and quite effective, although I doubt we will ever use it except for the gadget factor.

4. As expected, the LR4 is uber comfortable on the trail, with limited head toss and cushy, supportive seats.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(2).jpg

5. The air suspension allows the vehicle to travel on trails that would be impossible otherwise. With the push of a button, you gain 2+ inches of ground clearance.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(9).jpg

6. I am really pleased with how the truck looks. It is more purposeful than stock, but still looks nice and retains most of the comfort the stock vehicle provides.

7. The rock sliders did their job, which likely would have saved some expensive sheet metal damage. I like that they are aluminum and lightweight. I don't expect them to take a lot of abuse, but was sure glad we had them.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(4).jpg

The Bad
1. The traction control system is effective, but I wish this truck had the rear locker. It just wasn't available at the time we obtained the vehicle. Having driven the model with the HD package and rear locker, it is really an important feature. I will say that the system is more effective than the Discovery II and slightly better than the LR3, but I want the locker, plain and simple. On the bigger rocks, it required several seconds of wheel spin before the system slowed the spinning wheel sufficiently to allow forward progress again. This makes it difficult to modulate. In the end, the truck did everything we asked, but the locker would have made the result far more elegant.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(10).jpg

The Ugly
1. I have not tested 20" tires extensively on the trail. Primarily just stock vehicle testing and a few light trails in our MKIII Range Rover. Essentially, 20" wheels and tires are entirely inappropriate for serious exploration work. In the end, I was glad we tested the tires and experienced some extended trail time on 20s, and it does 'look' pretty good, but it just doesn't work. I was shocked we didn't have a flat. I have never experienced a flat with me driving on any long trip - ever. I was certain this would be the first. I guess that is props to the Mickey Thompsons for making a good tire that survived the trail day, but 20" wheels are a joke!
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(12).jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(6).jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(5).jpg

I really like the Overland Journal 'map bar' graphic we installed on this truck.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4%20(3).jpg

It is still too early to make final assessments and a summary of the vehicle. Fortunately, I have owned a lot of Land Rovers, so we have a pretty broad foundation for comparison. In the next few months I will summarize my comparison against the Discovery I, Discovery II, LR3 and probably the MKIII too.

RNPhoto
12-09-2012, 06:46 PM
Great photos and write up Scott!

frank84
12-09-2012, 09:21 PM
Glad to see it on some rocks! 12" of ground clearance sounds pretty good with the push of a button.

How does the optional rear locker in these work? I assume it is not driver controlled, so does it still need some wheel spin to engage? Then does it disengage after a preset time or something? Just trying to wrap my head around what's going on in there. I suppose I have the same question about the center diff - wheel spin to engage the lock or is it more of a viscous coupling thing?

Looking forward to your rover comparison write up!

Scott Brady
12-09-2012, 11:08 PM
Glad to see it on some rocks! 12" of ground clearance sounds pretty good with the push of a button.

How does the optional rear locker in these work? I assume it is not driver controlled, so does it still need some wheel spin to engage? Then does it disengage after a preset time or something? Just trying to wrap my head around what's going on in there. I suppose I have the same question about the center diff - wheel spin to engage the lock or is it more of a viscous coupling thing?

Looking forward to your rover comparison write up!

It is a true locker and the engagement depends a lot on the terrain response setting you select. The unit we tested would agressively keep the center locked and almost always keep the rear locked when in rock mode. On the visual display, it has three levels of 'assessment', when affects how long the diff remains locked. They are little bars that make a circle around the lock symbol. The more bars that are highlighted, the greater the 'assessment' and longer it stays engaged. The reality is, it all happens automagically.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee Final Drive II has a similar system, but it is better overall than even the HD LR4. More effective and quicker to respond. The previous generation even had a locker in the front, which also engaged automagically. The traction system could write all kinds of checks the body had no business cashing. Given that, the new GC and the LR4 with the HD are very comparable on the trail. The GC has a better traction system, but the LR4 has a much better suspension, with more articulation.

This shows the 4x4 info screen for the truck we have. If it was the HD version, there would be a rear locker symbol too. You can see the bars that make up the locker pie on the display.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/577813_10151540587698275_1473886115_n.jpg

1leglance
12-09-2012, 11:53 PM
I am driving a 1970 Chevy Suburban...that means it is 42 yrs old. I wonder what it will be like to drive the LR or Jeep system in 44yrs? Will the wiring survive? Will the computers? Of course we might be hovering over the terrain just like we thought we would be by now.

What are the effects of a computer malfunction in the field? If a wire comes loose, gets abraided or a sensor fails? Does the system default staying raised or lowers itself?

I guess all the electrical stuff scares me but then again I am not a target market and in reality none of us on this forum in the USA really go far from pavement & tow trucks in the USA.

Scott Brady
12-10-2012, 12:17 AM
All new cars are an appliance. Some have a longer service life than others, but all have an ending. 20 years is possible with regular use, but 42- no way! It is really unfortunate and reflective of so many products we purchase anymore. Think of a flat fender Jeep. Over 70 years of serviceability - incredible. I bet driving around in a flat fender Jeep or or Series I Land Rover would be more fun too, even though it would be slow, loud, unreliable and require constant service. But think of the smiles.

I have been looking hard at buying an old Series Land Rover or Flat Fender Jeep. There was a beautiful flat fender in the Omix Ada booth at SEMA.

Just look at this- perfect
http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/october/sema/Jeep/jeepupdate/jeepupdate5.jpg

or this 66 Series II- timeless
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/621600_10151359733703275_164690740_o.jpg

Of course this is a romantic notion as these vehicles are timeless, but terrible. The LR4 does everything better, except last forever.

Still might buy one though :p

JAK
12-10-2012, 01:08 AM
I am driving a 1970 Chevy Suburban...that means it is 42 yrs old. I wonder what it will be like to drive the LR or Jeep system in 44yrs? Will the wiring survive? Will the computers? Of course we might be hovering over the terrain just like we thought we would be by now.

What are the effects of a computer malfunction in the field? If a wire comes loose, gets abraided or a sensor fails? Does the system default staying raised or lowers itself?

I guess all the electrical stuff scares me but then again I am not a target market and in reality none of us on this forum in the USA really go far from pavement & tow trucks in the USA.

Here is my answer. If you short the right wires you are stuck. On my LR3, the drivers front ABS sensor harness wore through and shorted to itslef. This was result of the previous day's run or lazy mechanic not putting the harness back where it belonged after the brake change. As everything on the LR3 and the LR4 are tied to the ABS you end up losing, ABS, HDC, Terrain Response and the vehicle lowers to access height. It took me about an hour to find the problem and fix it before a run the next morning in Death Valley.

The challenge of working with these trucks makes the experience all that more satisfying and frustrating. It is not enough to turn a wrench anymore; you have to know the electrics as well. This is a double edge sword, but all part of the experience for better or worse.

As fo 44 years from now, I'm not sure we will be allowed to experience the liberty of taking our trucks out. The carbon credits alone would be disastrous.

Fivespddisco
12-10-2012, 02:17 AM
[IMG]it required several seconds of wheel spin before the system slowed the spinning wheel sufficiently to allow forward progress again. This makes it difficult to modulate.

You have to overwork these trucks a little bit to get the traction control to engage. I fear it is a trend with modern traction controlled vehicles. Coming from an old-school truck it's like learning how to drive again.

Spin spin spin the tires when they grab let off the throttle,..... repeat at next obstacle

nwoods
12-10-2012, 03:39 AM
You have to overwork these trucks a little bit to get the traction control to engage. I fear it is a trend with modern traction controlled vehicles. Coming from an old-school truck it's like learning how to drive again.

Spin spin spin the tires when they grab let off the throttle,..... repeat at next obstacle

Not necessarily. We joke that the TC systems and terrain control is like adding an "easy button" to the dash, but in truth, properly using the TC requires an adroit sensitivity to the throttle and what the wheels are doing. Sure, anyone can get through, but to finesse it requires a bit more practice and learned technique. No different really than engaging an ARB locker on a 35" jeep and pin pointing through a rock pile. The LR3/4 can be driven in similar circumstances without wheel spin once you learn how.... and have proper tires :-)

Geat pics Scott, and thanks for the feedback. I was a little surprised not to hear you talk about the significantly different lines the LR4 takes instead of the Disco. I always found that the most interesting comparison in the trail. With the low points on the chassis being very different, different bumper angles, and much sharper turning radius, it's like driving a totally different trail.

If you ever do a trip in that rig somewhere west of you, I'd love to join you. Or if you need someone to TAKE the LR4 on a western trail for photos or whatever, I'm always ready.

:-)

Scott Brady
12-10-2012, 04:26 AM
The algorithm is the algorithm in rock mode and it requires wheel spin to engage. That is why the HD package with rear locker is so important and reflects my preference as a driver, which is to never overwork a truck. The LR4 with standard traction control does not need to be overworked, but it does require a specific driver input.

Effectiveness is determined by the responsiveness of the system. A Tundra for example has the worst traction control effectiveness we have ever tested. The LR4 requires rapid tip-in and then back off to moderate throttle position. This allows the system to begin working as quickly as possible, but minimize potential damage to the drivetrain and trail. Unfortunately, it has limited modulation. It is certainly better than most and benefits from good articulation for an IFS/IRS vehicle. The traction control is better on the LR4 than the DII as it has a multi-mode system that can be set to 'rock' which improves responsiveness and effectiveness.

Regardless, it is impressive what stock vehicles can do with just traction control now. I think of how a stock LR4 would fare against a stock Discovery I. Having owned and wheeled both in stock form, the LR4 is magic. A lot has changed in 15 years. Now that the LR4 and our DI are modified, it will be fun to take them on the trail and compare the apple and orange. Each has its charm.

Scott Brady
12-10-2012, 04:30 AM
I will say my #1 goal for the LR4 right now - 18" rims and a 33" tire. It is currently an outside linebacker walking around in 4" pumps. . .

Mbogo
12-10-2012, 05:50 AM
I will say my #1 goal for the LR4 right now - 18" rims and a 33" tire. It is currently an outside linebacker walking around in 4" pumps. . .

LOL! What were they thinking with that wheel and tire combo? A go-cart has more sidewall!

Fivespddisco
12-10-2012, 02:19 PM
Will the 33s fit in in the wheel well ?

toddz69
12-10-2012, 02:47 PM
The Good
1. I really like the Kaymar rear bumper system. It is simple and clean, complimenting the lines of the truck and relocating the tire to the bumper.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/Discovery_4.jpg

Scott: Curious if you have any thoughts on the rigidity of the Kaymar tire mount on washboard/corrugated road surfaces. I did the "shake test" on your truck and a few others with Kaymar bumpers at SEMA and was disappointed in their lack of mounting rigidity.

Thanks,
Todd Z.

Scott Brady
12-10-2012, 03:32 PM
Will the 33s fit in in the wheel well ?

Even a 35 will fit with some work. Lots of measurement and research in Iceland. A 265/70 R18 is ideal IMO and measures 32.6" actual height.

Scott Brady
12-10-2012, 03:34 PM
Scott: Curious if you have any thoughts on the rigidity of the Kaymar tire mount on washboard/corrugated road surfaces. I did the "shake test" on your truck and a few others with Kaymar bumpers at SEMA and was disappointed in their lack of mounting rigidity.


I have not noted any noise from the bumper and have driven quite a bit of corrugation. We also have about a month with these bumpers in Australia and I never noted any noise. It is a pretty well proven design.

PhyrraM
12-10-2012, 04:22 PM
While I do not disagree with the need to change wheels and tires, the 'dubs' DID make it through the trail and weekend - and survived.

I'll be looking forward to your report when you do install the new shoes.

poncerover
12-10-2012, 04:55 PM
Great Build!
Quick question.
Looked and could not find who manufactered the rock sliders or were they custom built?
Really like that they are made of aluminum.
Looking forward to seeing your continued progress.

proper4wd
12-10-2012, 05:59 PM
Even a 35 will fit with some work. Lots of measurement and research in Iceland. A 265/70 R18 is ideal IMO and measures 32.6" actual height.

Scott could you provide some links or additional info with regards to fitting larger tires on these vehicles. I have never heard of or seen anything larger than a 33 and would be interested to learn more.

Scott Brady
12-10-2012, 06:29 PM
Looked and could not find who manufactered the rock sliders or were they custom built?
Really like that they are made of aluminum.
.

Lucky8 sells the sliders. They were simple to install and pretty light weight. Good combo.

They are a little light on protection just behind the front wheels, but I don't see that as an issue for this vehicle

stioc
12-10-2012, 08:14 PM
Thanks for summarizing the offroad experience. I'm watching this with interest and because of the comfort these rigs provide for the occupants without sacrificing the offroad capabilities this will likely be my next family expedition rig when the timing is right, hopefully in the next two years. I'm not afraid of the electronics; it's what everyone feared in the late 80s when the fuel injection came out or the automatic transmissions back in the 60s.

Regarding the ground clearance, is that 12" measured at the diffs?

BTW I can vouch for nwood's abilities on the trail and his knowledge of the LR3/LR4 platforms :)

JAK
12-10-2012, 10:59 PM
Thanks for summarizing the offroad experience. I'm watching this with interest and because of the comfort these rigs provide for the occupants without sacrificing the offroad capabilities this will likely be my next family expedition rig when the timing is right, hopefully in the next two years. I'm not afraid of the electronics; it's what everyone feared in the late 80s when the fuel injection came out or the automatic transmissions back in the 60s.

Regarding the ground clearance, is that 12" measured at the diffs?

BTW I can vouch for nwood's abilities on the trail and his knowledge of the LR3/LR4 platforms :)

The lowest part of the truck is gas tank. The diffs sit higher. This in part is due to the independent suspension. Actually the exhaust pipes sit lower than the diff as well.

PETER PETRAKIEV
12-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Scott, how is this says in English ( rail for strengthening of baggage)?

..... Forgive my ignorance.:(

135237

EricTyrrell
12-11-2012, 03:04 PM
It's called "Logistic Track", "L-Track", or "Airline Track"

PETER PETRAKIEV
12-11-2012, 05:24 PM
It's called "Logistic Track", "L-Track", or "Airline Track"

Eric, thank you very much, ..... happy holidays. :beer:


135244

Flagster
12-13-2012, 04:57 PM
I wish I grew up where you did...santa never brought me anything that good:)

toddz69
12-14-2012, 09:16 PM
I have not noted any noise from the bumper and have driven quite a bit of corrugation. We also have about a month with these bumpers in Australia and I never noted any noise. It is a pretty well proven design.

Thanks for the info, Scott. Obviously your experience with them is a lot more conclusive than my brief interaction with them.

Todd Z.

grimbo
12-14-2012, 10:04 PM
I am driving a 1970 Chevy Suburban...that means it is 42 yrs old. I wonder what it will be like to drive the LR or Jeep system in 44yrs? Will the wiring survive? Will the computers? Of course we might be hovering over the terrain just like we thought we would be by now.

What are the effects of a computer malfunction in the field? If a wire comes loose, gets abraided or a sensor fails? Does the system default staying raised or lowers itself?

I guess all the electrical stuff scares me but then again I am not a target market and in reality none of us on this forum in the USA really go far from pavement & tow trucks in the USA.

On the electrics failure thing the funniest thing I have seen in the trail involved a brand new series with all the bells and whistles.

We were in a group of Suzukis behind them on some treacherous wet black soil roads in the outback. Slippery is an understatement, at walking speed it was a task to keep the vehicles straight.

Anyway you had to stop frequently to open and shut farm gates. As he approached the gate he applied the brakes and gently slid across the road and into a fence. In this case an electric fence. It shorted everything out he couldn't get out, open a window, sunroof etc. we couldn't diagnose the issue even though two auto electricians were with the groups.

Eventually a Toyota technician from Mildura came out and managed to get it to work in lump home mode and get the people out.

All up they were stuck in the car for 4 hours because he didn't want to break a window.

Scott Brady
12-14-2012, 10:07 PM
Anyway you had to stop frequently to open and shut farm gates. As he approached the gate he applied the brakes and gently slid across the road and into a fence. In this case an electric fence. It shorted everything out he couldn't get out, open a window, sunroof etc. we couldn't diagnose the issue even though two auto electricians were with the groups.


HA - that is nuts!

Jamin_GX
12-15-2012, 06:45 PM
Scott-
Maybe I missed it but what are your plans regarding adding communications to the LR4?

Scott Brady
12-15-2012, 07:21 PM
Scott-
Maybe I missed it but what are your plans regarding adding communications to the LR4?

I am using a Yaesu VX-8DR (http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=111&ProdID=1577&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0) with a Diamond hood mount antenna. The antenna provides a significant dB gain.

I typically install mobile units in my trucks, but am quite happy with the HT/Antenna arrangement in the LR4. Compact and effective for convoy communications.

Jamin_GX
12-15-2012, 08:01 PM
Godo to know, thanks. I was planning on doing something similar with my VX-7R but everyone says not to bother with a HT unit in a vehicle. And that the ONLY way to DO IT THE RIGHT WAY is to install a mobile unit. I'm not looking to connect with someone in China, yah know.

Glad to hear it's been successful for you.

Happy Holidays.

Scott Brady
12-16-2012, 12:11 AM
Godo to know, thanks. I was planning on doing something similar with my VX-7R but everyone says not to bother with a HT unit in a vehicle. And that the ONLY way to DO IT THE RIGHT WAY is to install a mobile unit. I'm not looking to connect with someone in China, yah know.


The antenna is critical for range, but keep in mind that this is an appropriate solution for convoy travel only. If you intend for the unit to provide long-range repeater communications for safety, etc., then there is no substitute for a mobile unit.

I carry a sat. phone and a SPOT for emergency coms.

1leglance
12-16-2012, 04:13 AM
If you are using a handheld in your rig then look and see if you can get a remote speaker mic for it.
Most of my Yaesu units (I have 3) have remote speaker mics so I don't have to lift the HT along with it's cables to my face when talking :)

X-plorenow
12-17-2012, 05:31 AM
Scott, was has been your experience with the Warn lighting so far?

Valkyrie Voyages
12-17-2012, 05:10 PM
Actually, Tactical Rovers has a bumper for the LR4.
I have their bumper on my LR3. I was torn between the two, but ultimately I preferred the better approach angle, and replacing ALL of the plastic with metal.
Their LR4 bumper just hit the market a few weeks ago.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l618/huskyfargo/IMG_0559.jpg

This is by far the best looking rover I have seen in a while. Good job and I am glad you have this still running. I had an '05 LR3 that turned out to be a lemon and killed my faith in the brand! Moved over to a Touareg and haven't looked back since. I wish I could get a bumper for my Treg. Anyway, thx for the pic.

RNPhoto
12-17-2012, 06:36 PM
^A beautiful truck for sure, I wish they would have altered that raised air intake a bit to be flush with the fender instead of sticking out.

SteveMfr
12-17-2012, 06:37 PM
Time to go back, Valkyrie. Quality in newer LRs is not on the same page (or even in the same book) as 6-7 years ago...

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 02:25 AM
If you are using a handheld in your rig then look and see if you can get a remote speaker mic for it.
Most of my Yaesu units (I have 3) have remote speaker mics so I don't have to lift the HT along with it's cables to my face when talking :)

I do have the submersible mic which has good volume and clarity. We were just commenting on that today heading to the trail. The mic screws into the radio and has proven to be pretty reliable.

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 02:32 AM
Scott, was has been your experience with the Warn lighting so far?

They are pretty ideal for this vehicle, especially with the limited options for firewall passthrough, etc. and that eight-squillion dollar dash. The Warn is remote, so we had the lights installed in about 15 minutes. My biggest complaint is that I wish the remote had an "on" indicator. It has a momentary confirmation that the button has been pushed, but it needs to have a "lights on" indicator. I burned up a set of covers because I had accidentally bumped the switch. The light performance is good given the reflector size and the color temp is complimentary to the LED and HID lighting of the truck.

toddz69
12-19-2012, 02:33 AM
I do have the submersible mic which has good volume and clarity. We were just commenting on that today heading to the trail. The mic screws into the radio and has proven to be pretty reliable.

So if I understand what you guys are saying (Scott and Lance) - you have mics that function both as mics *and* external speakers for your HTs?

Thanks,
Todd Z.

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 02:36 AM
A little snow testing today. Land Rovers have always been good in the snow and the LR4 is no exception. What was most impressive was the HDC on a cambered descent. It held the line and didn't slide like I expected it would. It climbed like a boss. We didn't even air down. . . But that isn't to say we didn't get stuck. It was a really fun afternoon. I will try to post more images tomorrow.

136482

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 02:39 AM
So if I understand what you guys are saying (Scott and Lance) - you have mics that function both as mics *and* external speakers for your HTs?

Thanks,
Todd Z.

Yes Sir: http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-009478

toddz69
12-19-2012, 02:46 AM
Cool - thanks for the info - never knew something like that existed. Now back to studying for the test....

Todd Z.

Dmarchand
12-19-2012, 03:46 PM
Scott, have you tried learning the warn transmitter to the homelink buttons? It should in theory work and is what I have had in mind but adding lights is still a few weeks away on my truck. Awaiting Justin's next shipment of goodies...

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 06:49 PM
Scott, have you tried learning the warn transmitter to the homelink buttons? It should in theory work and is what I have had in mind but adding lights is still a few weeks away on my truck. Awaiting Justin's next shipment of goodies...

You sir, are brilliant. I am going to give it a try and report back.

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 07:10 PM
A few more images from the snow. With technical snow travel, we found that "Rock" mode still provides the greatest effectiveness. We also found the IFS/IRS to be a unique advantage with undercarriage drag from the ruts. You do know it is a heavy truck though, as gravity did its work a few times. We did get stuck once, when the LR4 slide on a cambered slope and stopped just shy of the edge. We used four MaxTrax with good effect and we were back underway. What I found most interesting was the feedback from Paul May, who I had driving the LR4 on the trail. He owns a UZJ100 Land Cruiser that is heavily modified. His summary was "This thing really is incredible. It works awesome until the point it stops working. . ." Cruiser guys ;)

http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_MaxTrax_Snow.jpg

Independent is nice in the ruts and snow
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow%20(1).jpg

Paul, enjoying the heated steering wheel and the seats set to "Nuklear"
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow%20(3).jpg

Good stability on the cambered stuff, but heavy, so gravity won over traction more than once
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow%20(4).jpg

A few good shots of the ground clearance in "off road" suspension setting
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow%20(6).jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow%20(8).jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow%20(9).jpg

Breaking trail with some good cross-axle challenges. I am a huge fan of driving in snow - so much more fluid and challenging
http://www.expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/ScottBrady/Discovery4/LR4_Snow.jpg

RNPhoto
12-19-2012, 08:13 PM
Great photos and super jealous of your adventures. I'll be taking an L405 out in the snow in a few weeks, can't wait to see how it does.

By the way, are those "snow" rated tires?

Scott Brady
12-19-2012, 08:53 PM
They are rated and stamped mud and snow (M+S)

Redback
12-19-2012, 10:15 PM
Awsome build up Scott, loving it.

OK I have two suggestions and one is a must do if your going to run 33s on a Discovery 4 or 3 for that matter, GOE emergency air up kit, this is a must because if you get a suspension fault and the car lowers down to the bump stops, you're going knowhere.

Read here
http://greenovalexperience.com/eas_inflation_kit.html

Also have a look at this system, it's called LLAMS, it is an electrically controlled lift system and works in the same way as Johnson Rods, but is controlled by you as an on demand lift, no crawling in the wheel well to give the lift, just flick a switch to lower or raise the car.
http://www.llams.com.au/?p=11

Have fun

Baz.

Mack73
12-19-2012, 11:56 PM
GOE emergency air up kit, this is a must because if you get a suspension fault and the car lowers down to the bump stops, you're going knowhere.

Read here
http://greenovalexperience.com/eas_inflation_kit.html


I brought a couple of these into the states (to save on shipping). If anyone wants one, let me know.

Dmarchand
12-20-2012, 01:20 AM
How is the llams different from the gap diagnostic setup? That allows tweaking of the vehicle heights and more. Unless th llams is allowing this on the fly?

PhyrraM
12-20-2012, 02:23 AM
How is the llams different from the gap diagnostic setup? That allows tweaking of the vehicle heights and more. Unless th llams is allowing this on the fly?

Llams does allow on-the-fly. It works by intercepting the 4 height sensor signals before they reach the controller/computer. The box adds/subtracts voltage, PWM (or whatever the signal is) and feeds the modified signal to the ECU for the car to control the valves as OEM. The car itself still thinks it's at whatever height the OEM Terrain Response is set for.

From what I can gather, the IDtool actually programs the OEM ECU with new values for each height - although I suppose it might also program the OEM ECU with an off-set, or "trim", value for the same effect.

SteveMfr
12-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Phyrra is absolutely correct: the IIDTool (or EASControl for those wanting only the EAS functionality) reprograms the target height settings in the EAS ECU whereas the Llams goes between the height sensors and the ECU and alters the signals - sort of like 'electronic rods'. The Llams does allow an 'on the fly' adjustment whereas the IIDTool or EASControl would require a stop and plugging in the module to the OBD port to make the adjustment. On the upside, though, the adjustment can be done in less than a minute and, in contrast to the Llams, the IIDTool or EASControl require no installation or holes drilled in the dash to install switches. The IIDTool and EASControl also have several internal memory slots for different height profiles to make switching even quicker.

Here is a vid of the process LR3 / RRS (although this is lowering...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXzFDaiSmhM&feature=player_embedded
Navigating the menu is done using the cruise control switches: resume=enter, +and- =up and down, and cruise off=cancel

The other big difference between the Llams and the IIDTool/EASControl is price. The EASControl is considerably less expensive and offers EAS diagnostics (fault read/clear, etc) and the IIDTool for the LR3 is in the same price category as the Llams and offers full diagnostics on all systems. The LR4 IIDTool will be slightly more expensive due to development of the display firmware (but it looks really nice :-p ).

I am not a big fan of emergency add air systems either. IMO you are simply adding a potential for leaks - and you still need an external compressor. Catastrophic EAS compressor failures are nearly unheard of, so assuming the compressor is in OK shape you can jumper the solenoid-valves and compressor to operate the EAS manually quite easily. If a compressor goes, it will be due to piston seal wear and make itself noticeable by becoming slower and running longer. And, if you really want to be on the safe side you can a single add air valve to the compressor input tube as well - but IMO it is not necessary. I would carry jumper wires and instructions (pin #'s for the appropriate connectors) in my toolkit, tho.

Mack, Redback - sorry if this comes off as being very contradictory. Don't mean it to. This just reflects my experiences in playing with EAS equipped LR's for the past 12+ years. And I am also a part of GAP Diagnostic (http://gap-diagnostic.com/), so I am biased there :-))

Redback
12-20-2012, 07:54 PM
How is the llams different from the gap diagnostic setup? That allows tweaking of the vehicle heights and more. Unless th llams is allowing this on the fly?

Yes you can do it on the fly, you can lower the car 20mm below on road height for high speed freeway driving or want to go into that underground carpark and not worry about scrapping the roof rack, or go 30mm and 50mm above on road height(which is offroad height) without the suspension lowering once you go over 50kph, so is much more user friendly, especially if you do a lot of sand driving.

All at the turn of a knob at any time:coffee:

Baz.

khronus79
12-20-2012, 11:40 PM
So, if I understand correctly, if I want to run in offroad height all the time I need shorter rods + IID Tool(since I want to buy the IID)???? Or is the IID Tool able to run in offroad height at any speed??

Does the LLAMS offer any diagnostics or is it simply a virtual rod???

Scott Brady
12-21-2012, 02:08 AM
So, if I understand correctly, if I want to run in offroad height all the time I need shorter rods + IID Tool(since I want to buy the IID)???? Or is the IID Tool able to run in offroad height at any speed??

Does the LLAMS offer any diagnostics or is it simply a virtual rod???

The IID Tool allows you to set new values for suspension height, so you can go +60mm and normal mode will now be nearly "Off-Road" and as a result, "Off-Road" will now be +60mm higher as well. It is a software adjustment instead of a physical adjustment like the Johnson Rods. The clear advantage to the IID tool is adjustability and the other functions it allows modifications of. If you are only looking to make the suspension taller and keep it that way, then the Johnson Rods are a good value.

khronus79
12-26-2012, 01:19 AM
Thanks Scott, any decisions yet on the new wheel+tire combo??? are you still aiming for the 33's???

Jwestpro
12-29-2012, 03:28 AM
An LR3/4 set up like this must weigh 4 tons, maybe more with a full load of people. I remember when Jeremy Clarkson tested the LR3 he joked that if you fully load one and pull a trailer, you technically need the equivalent of a class B CDL to drive it on the road. With the Jaguar turbo diesel, Top Gear found it to be somewhat of a dog. True, the gas truck has 400 hp on tap, but pulling 4-5 tons, even that kind of power gets tamed pretty quickly.

I have more than their build and I have weighed in just over 8000 lbs on a solo trip (1 person!) (full RS sliders, full underside Rasta plates, 2nd air tank and air compressor, bigger 2nd battery, larger and heavier Hannibal rack, 2 awnings by Hannibal, RTT on some trips, jerry cans, etc)

E range tires with 121/123 or higher were my first "mod"

Dmarchand
12-31-2012, 01:26 AM
Scott, the asfir compressor skid will fit without modification to the Terrafirma sliders. Just installed all today and other than the AC line mod on the driver's side, it works.

perkj
12-31-2012, 06:31 AM
Catastrophic EAS compressor failures are nearly unheard of, so assuming the compressor is in OK shape you can jumper the solenoid-valves and compressor to operate the EAS manually quite easily. ... I would carry jumper wires and instructions (pin #'s for the appropriate connectors) in my toolkit,

Steve,

Please explain this in a bit more detail and/or point me to the instructions for how to do this.

draaronr
12-31-2012, 02:06 PM
The IID Tool allows you to set new values for suspension height, so you can go +60mm and normal mode will now be nearly "Off-Road" and as a result, "Off-Road" will now be +60mm higher as well. It is a software adjustment instead of a physical adjustment like the Johnson Rods. The clear advantage to the IID tool is adjustability and the other functions it allows modifications of. If you are only looking to make the suspension taller and keep it that way, then the Johnson Rods are a good value.

okay so let me try to clear the mud in my mind.
Johnson rods, truck is lifted up so all 3 settings are slightly elevated, but truck thinks it is still in stock no messing with the ecu? put on rods, then get it aligned and go on with it, or swap at trail, but don't drive as will cause excessive tire wear if not properly aligned? Why wouldn't people do this method?

LLams or IId, can change it from in the cab, no swapping rods and with IID you can clear and run codes, as well as set values? if you put rods on and used this you would get an even larger lift? would you be able to have the rods on and still drop the truck to the bump stops by setting the values with enough negative?

nwoods
12-31-2012, 08:11 PM
okay so let me try to clear the mud in my mind.
Johnson rods, truck is lifted up so all 3 settings are slightly elevated, but truck thinks it is still in stock no messing with the ecu? put on rods, then get it aligned and go on with it, or swap at trail, but don't drive as will cause excessive tire wear if not properly aligned? Why wouldn't people do this method?

Most people running a lift on the LR3/4/RRS do it this way. Can pose problems with excessive wear on CV's, but does provide the value of the lift at very little initial cost.



LLams or IId, can change it from in the cab, no swapping rods and with IID you can clear and run codes, as well as set values? if you put rods on and used this you would get an even larger lift? would you be able to have the rods on and still drop the truck to the bump stops by setting the values with enough negative?
Adding rods not very effective, because ultimately, the shocks only have so much travel. You would also significantly increase the CV angles and make them more prone to problems. The software lift is a great idea because its temporary, only use it when you need it (reduces tire wear and CV issues), can be calibrated to set your ride height to whatever it needs to be for the given terrain, equipment load out, tire size, etc... clears faults that can otherwise render the LR3/4/RRS from dragging itself home in Limp Home Mode, and ultimately, goes best with the whole Grey Poupon motif :-)

FWIW, as a long time fan of the LR3, I would not hesitate for a second to use the IID tool from GAP, whereas, I have never endorsed the use of lift rods.

nwoods
12-31-2012, 08:12 PM
Paul, enjoying the heated steering wheel and the seats set to "Nuklear"

My kids referred to the two settings on the heated seats as:
1. Waffle
2. TOAST

Eniam17
12-31-2012, 10:04 PM
FWIW, as a long time fan of the LR3, I would not hesitate for a second to use the IID tool from GAP, whereas, I have never endorsed the use of lift rods.

This is helpful advice, Thanks. Given that the LR3 is hard on suspension components and tires anyway, I've been trying to understand how much the rods would really impact it. I don't think I want to drive around with rods installed all the time.

draaronr
12-31-2012, 10:05 PM
This is helpful advice, Thanks. Given that the LR3 is hard on suspension components and tires anyway, I've been trying to understand how much the rods would really impact it. I don't think I want to drive around with rods installed all the time.
agreed, can we get a group buy on these?

JimBiram
01-01-2013, 06:31 PM
okay so let me try to clear the mud in my mind.
Johnson rods, truck is lifted up so all 3 settings are slightly elevated, but truck thinks it is still in stock no messing with the ecu? put on rods, then get it aligned and go on with it, or swap at trail, but don't drive as will cause excessive tire wear if not properly aligned? Why wouldn't people do this method?

LLams or IId, can change it from in the cab, no swapping rods and with IID you can clear and run codes, as well as set values? if you put rods on and used this you would get an even larger lift? would you be able to have the rods on and still drop the truck to the bump stops by setting the values with enough negative?


Nathan explained it very well, but I thought I would toss in my 2 cents. I originally used the Johnson Rods, and took time at the trail head to swap out the rods to increase the ride height. They work very well, but your ride height is "permanently" changed until you restore the factory rods. I was concerned about vehicle stability for on road travel, especially for emergency maneuvers, so I chose to remove the rods at the end of the trail. Process takes about 10 minutes all around, but (1) does take some practice to remove/replace rods, (2) potentially puts strain on the sensor components while doing so, and (3) requires you to climb under the vehicle, which isn't fun if it is raining, muddy, snowy, hot, cold, etc. The advantages of the II-D tool are almost too numerous to describe, but (1) it's convenient...takes less than 30 seconds to change the height, (2) allows quick and easy reading/clearing of faults (ever had the parking brake screech fault or transmission fault?), (3) allows the modification of running lights, etc., (4) allows for real time monitoring of voltages and other data, (5) allows you to raise the height so you can drive in normal mode, without the annoying "chime" and "vehicle lowering" above 30 MPH. That one alone is worth it on rural roads at higher speeds! Those guys are brilliant in their design, which incorporates the information display in such a compact tool that is smaller than a pack of cigarettes. Bravo to the guys at GAP-Diagnostic!

Fivespddisco
01-03-2013, 01:27 AM
I would like to elaborate a little bit more on this. The J Rods are a nice and you cant beet the price but in my opinion with a tool like this on the market they are becoming a bit of a false economy.
The main reason everybody puts on the rods is the lift their truck to fit larger tires. The rods only come in one size and they do not fit everyone's needs. With the IID tool you can set the lift to fit your specific needs and keep the truck low for daily driving but sill have it the height you need for Off Road use.
Why is this important?
At 2.5 inches the CVs are pretty cranked for daily driving. and if you're running a 30 inch tire you do not need the same lift as a guy running 32 inch tires. Why put all that additional wear and tear on your vehicle if you don't need it?
This does not even touch the other functions the tool provides that you're going to want and need as these trucks age. I'm sorry to say fokes but third-generation Land Rovers need computer support in the field.

Scott Brady
01-03-2013, 02:22 AM
Lots of snow driving the past week. We spent some time in Pagosa Springs with friends and had the opportunity at miles of unplowed road. In snow mode, Stephanie felt completely comfortable ripping around the ranch. I tried a few other modes and actually settled on "mud and ruts" as a favorite. We also tried normal and ESP off for some fun - this truck rips in the snow. It is interesting comparing what I like about my 1995 Discovery vs. the 2012 - so different and both cool in their own way.
138646

But the primary reason for driving in all that snow was to pick-up the newest ExPo team member :)
138647
138648

greggNJ
01-03-2013, 04:46 PM
But the primary reason for driving in all that snow was to pick-up the newest ExPo team member :)
138647
138648[/QUOTE]

Thats a cute little pup there! (I like the LR too :smiley_drive:)

Eniam17
01-03-2013, 05:51 PM
What a cute puppy, congrats. Looks like a great trip.

EricTyrrell
01-03-2013, 09:58 PM
Hope we'll be seeing more of your newest member.

Snow depth? Powder, wet, frozen? Did the tires cut, plow, or float? It seems like those wide tires would try to float, but the weight would force it to plow instead of cut or float. Plowing is not a strategy I'd like to have in snow.

khronus79
01-04-2013, 12:26 AM
I was in Pagosa Springs last week, Now in Aztec, NM. Lots of fun to be had out here,some beautiful scenery.

oryx
01-11-2013, 09:13 PM
Have to admit I'm getting more and more tempted to get one of these trucks. Hmmm. . . maybe I'll sell my D2 (once I replace the blown engine) and take the plunge into modernity. (Keeping the Rangie though. . . ) :)

David

oryx
01-13-2013, 11:24 PM
The IID Tool allows you to set new values for suspension height, so you can go +60mm and normal mode will now be nearly "Off-Road" and as a result, "Off-Road" will now be +60mm higher as well. It is a software adjustment instead of a physical adjustment like the Johnson Rods. The clear advantage to the IID tool is adjustability and the other functions it allows modifications of. If you are only looking to make the suspension taller and keep it that way, then the Johnson Rods are a good value.

So with the IID tool, you can adjust suspension heights at will, but wouldn't you still be limited to a certain base setting from the standpoint of alignment? In other words, you can adjust the height electronically, but still have to manually change the alignment to match. If so, then, like the rods, one would have to decide what lift they wanted to run on all the time, if they wanted their alignment to remain correct?

David

Scott Brady
01-13-2013, 11:57 PM
So with the IID tool, you can adjust suspension heights at will, but wouldn't you still be limited to a certain base setting from the standpoint of alignment? In other words, you can adjust the height electronically, but still have to manually change the alignment to match. If so, then, like the rods, one would have to decide what lift they wanted to run on all the time, if they wanted their alignment to remain correct?

David

This is very true. You will want to set the alignment for the most common street/highway height. Now that I am migrating to the IID tool, we are actually going to run a little lower on the street in general (about 20mm) and will be the position we align to. I am primarily concerned with the CV axle wear at the current rod height.

SteveMfr
01-14-2013, 06:25 AM
Hi David,
As Scott said, this is definitely true. The difference to rods is, that you drive on the street at an optimized alignment and then add lift when you reach an off-road section in your journey without crawling under the car to change or adjust links. You simply plug the IIDTool in, select the height settings you need, exit the menu and you are done. Jim Biram describes this (and how he used to change links when entering a trail) a page back. And 2 pages back I added a vid showing height changes being made.
We have also included several memory slots so that you can make the changes even quicker and save 'profiles' such as street, off-road, etc.

For those who are not interested in full diagnostics, we also have the EASControl (http://gap-diagnostic.com/products/eascontrol.html) which is basically the EAS functionality of the IIDTool only (including fault reading and clearing). The EASControl sells for not much more than many link kits.

As an aside: at the moment all LR EAS systems except for the 2002-05 L322 Range Rover can only be adjusted as a block - that is if you adjust the settings up by 10mm, all height settings from off-road to access will be increased by 10mm. In contrast, the early L322 RR can have off-road height increased while standard height is decreased and motorway is decreased even more. We have plans to implement this for the other vehicles as well. It will entail re-flashing the EAS ECU (sort of like chip-tuning for the EAS :-p ). We hope to be able to get to this after we finish the final functionality for the IIDTool firmware and the IIDtool Pro (shop version) in the coming months.

Breadfan
01-16-2013, 02:53 AM
This is very true. You will want to set the alignment for the most common street/highway height. Now that I am migrating to the IID tool, we are actually going to run a little lower on the street in general (about 20mm) and will be the position we align to. I am primarily concerned with the CV axle wear at the current rod height.

Can the truck go higher with after market rods and the IID tool or can it reach the same heights with the fatory rods and IID tool?

SteveMfr
01-16-2013, 06:11 AM
It can go higher with a combination of the two.

The EAS ECU has a plausibility range of ~100mm meaning that the total possible range of adjustment is roughly 100mm (between 3"-4") on the LR3/4. Exactly how much you can go up or down depends on the position of the original EAS calibration within this range. If the vehicle was calibrated low in the range, you can't lower very much but you have more room to raise the suspension. If the EAS was calibrated high it is obviously the inverse.

Discounting all other factors such as drive train components, suspension geometry, etc, the problem with lifting an LR3/4 that much on an otherwise stock suspension is that you simply run out of adequate suspension travel. You may have a bit more clearance under the vehicle, but you'll be playing teeter-totter over small obstacles due to a lack of droop.

lwg
01-17-2013, 04:08 AM
Can the tool monitor Transmission temperatures or T-case temps? I recently started towing an RV with my LR3 and would love to know these values.

SteveMfr
01-17-2013, 12:22 PM
Yes.

lwg
01-17-2013, 08:12 PM
Yes.

Most excellent. Last question. If I purchased one for my current LR3 and eventually upgraded to an LR4 would the tool transfer to the new LR4 or would I need to purchase a new tool? Guessing the hardware is the same, just a software flash and some $$ and it could be done.

Kudos on getting this project going!

SteveMfr
01-17-2013, 08:40 PM
Exactly. SW transfer is a non-issue. You would have to purchase a ne VIN license for not tooooo much. Britpart dealers are free to make their own prices and we are asked not to quote any - but somewhere slightly north of GBP50... (shhh :-p )

Thanks on the kudos!

chirigringo
01-18-2013, 03:30 AM
Besides AB, anyone know who is offering the iidtool in the states? I can't seem to find anyone else. Any suggestions for UK dealers who might ship to the states?

Fivespddisco
01-18-2013, 03:47 AM
Iyou simply run out of adequate suspension travel.

I haven't done it yet but I'm betting the tool will almost Max out the suspension with out rods.

Fivespddisco
01-18-2013, 03:49 AM
Besides AB, anyone know who is offering the iidtool in the states? I can't seem to find anyone else. Any suggestions for UK dealers who might ship to the states?

We got them :)

SteveMfr
01-18-2013, 06:05 AM
We got them :)
Woohoo!
:-p

Rovertrader
01-19-2013, 04:17 AM
Are they in stock yet Justin?

Fivespddisco
01-20-2013, 01:07 AM
soon.

Rovertrader
01-21-2013, 04:37 PM
Mark one sold for me please sir.

George Gem
01-26-2013, 12:44 AM
141772141773141774141775

Jeep recovery!

draaronr
01-26-2013, 12:47 AM
Specs?

khronus79
01-26-2013, 04:06 AM
Well done!

Rovertrader
01-26-2013, 05:06 PM
Tactical Rovers skids and sliders??

Scott Brady
01-26-2013, 05:28 PM
Beauty!

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=141775&d=1359164509

oryx
01-27-2013, 09:25 PM
Those Tactical Rovers skids look nice!

huskyfargo
01-28-2013, 05:14 PM
I'm curious what kind of gas mileage you're getting with that setup.

SSF556
01-29-2013, 12:05 AM
141772141773141774141775

Jeep recovery!

Nice...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Zecko
01-29-2013, 03:23 AM
Can anyone tell me when the Gap IID tool for the LR4 will be available and is there a dealer in the US? Their website states the ony ww dealer is britpart in the UK??

umbertob
01-29-2013, 08:50 AM
Without second guessing the manufacturer, based on my experience with a very polished beta version on my 2013 NAS LR4, I can't imagine availability of IIDTool for Disco/LR4 - and 2010+ RRS - being more than 3/4 months away. There are currently a couple of wrinkles left for owners of MY2010 and 2011s (involving a firmware update of the instrument cluster to MY2012 specifications, see this thread: http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/9-range-rover-sport-l320/42715-iidtool-rrs-2010-diagnostic-sys-beta-sales-starting.html), but they are minor and GAP will most likely resolve them by the time they release the tool to their distributor. As far as availability in the US, your best bet would be to contact Britpart in the UK, they should provide you with names of IIDTool dealers on this side of the pond. Atlantic British - to name just one - is currently a US distributor for EAS Control and IIDTool.

nwoods
01-29-2013, 01:54 PM
Umberto! Welcome to ExPo my friend. Glad to hear you were able to stay in the family. How are you liking the LR4 compared to your well traveled RRS?

umbertob
01-29-2013, 04:35 PM
Hi Nathan, good to hear from you! I love the LR4... Got a red one, sort of half-a-midlife-crisis. :)

SteveMfr
01-30-2013, 12:22 PM
Hi Umberto!
Nice to see you here as well!

Actually, we will be even quicker on the release than 3-4 months - more like 2 to 3 till the units are avail. in retail :-p

I was going to post on this another time, but it seems like this is appropriate (hope this is not too much of a hi-jack, Scott):
The 'wrinkle' with the cluster software for the 2010, 2011 LR4 is a bit of a headache. In a nutshell, the issue is that the 2010, 2011 cluster software will not allow us to display the IIDTool info to the cluster. So the IIDTool updates the software to the 2012> cluster software on first use. The cluster looks a bit less grainy (pics at Umberto's link above) which is not bad, but the headache is that LR changed the front PDC sounder so that the 2010, 2011 front PDC no longer works with the newer cluster software (the rear PDC continues to work fine). We looked into making a patch for this but it is much too time intensive.

So we have a bit of an issue for those early LR4 owners who feel that the front PDC is vital.

To address this we have a couple of possibilities:
- you upgrade the cluster software to use the IIDTool and downgrade the software at the end of your diagnostic session. We have included provisions for this and it takes about 2 mins each time. We are not happy with this, tho, so...
- the production IIDTool for the LR4 will have our newer hardware. There is a bluetooth chip on the board :-)) The corresponding app will not be ready immediately. But it will offer enormous potential for the future.

Zecko, in addition to AB give Justin at Lucky8 a call. He should have the LR3 IIDTool soon.

perkj
01-30-2013, 03:53 PM
- the production IIDTool for the LR4 will have our newer hardware. There is a bluetooth chip on the board :-)) The corresponding app will not be ready immediately. But it will offer enormous potential for the future.

Steve, will there be any option for those of us from the original beta of the IIDTool (for my LR3) to be able to get our HW upgraded to the new HW w/ BT? I assume their would likely be an additional expense, but I don't want to be left out of features that will be enabled in the corresponding app.

SteveMfr
01-30-2013, 10:05 PM
Yes, of course - should have mentioned that (thanks). There will be a price differenc,e but we will credit the price of the original IIDTool on exchange.

RangeBrover
02-04-2013, 07:37 PM
Did you guys ever figure out how to fit 18's on the LR4? I'd like to know if there are other options that don't include the Compmotive wheels.

Scott Brady
02-05-2013, 02:20 AM
The 18s are still on the project list. I got a bit distracted with that pretty, white thing from Germany (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/22731-Overland-Journal-G-Wagen?p=1271790#post1271790). . .

Hope to be back on it within a few weeks.

George Gem
02-05-2013, 03:08 PM
Thanks Scott! I put tons of work into her..... We should get out one day! Im in CA tho...

George Gem
02-05-2013, 03:10 PM
Ive weighed all options about that.. if you need any help with your LR4 i promise i can help.... I went through it all!

George Gem
02-05-2013, 03:11 PM
Too much to list!

Specs?

George Gem
02-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Yes!


Tactical Rovers skids and sliders??

George Gem
02-05-2013, 03:17 PM
Not much worse than how it was stock! Its somewhere between a prius and an H1....


I'm curious what kind of gas mileage you're getting with that setup.

lwg
02-05-2013, 10:02 PM
Hi Umberto!


- the production IIDTool for the LR4 will have our newer hardware. There is a bluetooth chip on the board :-)) The corresponding app will not be ready immediately. But it will offer enormous potential for the future.



Very, very cool! Since getting our iPad it lives on the dash mount when travelling and I can imagine with an appropriate app that real time drivetrain stats might be available to us. This is pretty cool.

RangeBrover
02-05-2013, 11:41 PM
The LR4's actually get some reasonable gas mileage, my trail buddy drives one and he consistently gets about 18 on the highway with the Johnson Rods lift, AT tires, and a full rack. Of course that's keeping it around 70, go any faster than that and it's a crap shoot. When it was stock he told me he was getting close to 20, beats the Land Cruiser every day of the week in that regard.

George Gem
02-06-2013, 06:07 PM
That 5.0L will never get you 20 MPG, maybe if you are driving on completely flat road on the highway for a period of time. (Cruise set) LOL .. Honestly, these cars were not built for economy, they were built for the best combination of luxury, power, and play. To have them all you need to sacrifice something... I love my disco4! Best car i have ever owned for my lifestyle!


The LR4's actually get some reasonable gas mileage, my trail buddy drives one and he consistently gets about 18 on the highway with the Johnson Rods lift, AT tires, and a full rack. Of course that's keeping it around 70, go any faster than that and it's a crap shoot. When it was stock he told me he was getting close to 20, beats the Land Cruiser every day of the week in that regard.

Scott Brady
02-06-2013, 06:08 PM
We see about 16.5 mpg in mixed driving. Given the performance of that motor, AWD and weight of the vehicle, the mileage is acceptable.

stioc
02-06-2013, 08:01 PM
wow this build went sideways in a hurry- from a nice build thread to 5 pages of discussion about tools and gas mileage :coffee:

proper4wd
02-06-2013, 08:02 PM
I have personally seen 22mpg highway from an LR4 on a highway jaunt (at sea level).