Overland Journal: Discovery I, 5-speed

[hochung]

Please, no sewer cap.

[JSQ]

Here are the items I think we need to finish the axles up: Any help or feedback would be appreciated!


A stock u-joint driveshaft will be more than fine.
Don't even bother yourself with this semantic u-joint discussion. The only people who need to spend their time with such things are those who are prone to having a tractor pull with a dualie late at night outside a bar.

Get whatever rear halfshafts you like. Any of them should be good enough. It's just a matter of who you like and want to give your money to.
In the front I'd be careful with that ARB. If you put in really tough halfshafts and CVs you're going to be stressing that 3.91 R&P which doesn't have a reputation for being the strongest. (It's the Santana made gearset from Bill, right?) I'd rather upgrade the CVs and keep the halfshafts stock and carry spares so they can act as the fuse as LR intended.


Mantec diff guards do look nice. I have SafariGard covers on the disco but I like the Mantec on the front of the 110 much better. You'll need to tether the rear guard or you'll lose it (the front is captured by the panhard rod). After a lot of time under the rear of the disco banging the cowbell back on I finally RTVed the diff guards in place. They haven't gotten knocked off since. It works surprisingly well.

Go ahead and do the D-90 caliper and rotor swap. It's worth it.
I'm not sure why you want to pull the ABS block so badly. One of the nice thing about the Disco1 is that all you have to do to disable the ABS is pull one 15amp fuse and the system functions as it should. I wouldn't even mess with it. It's just not worth the hassle.

I don't know about all this big bore breather business.
You either have fresh open breathers or they're old and clogged. It's not really a CFM issue. I don't know why you need some large diameter tubing to properly vent the diffs. In fact if you want you can eliminate the tubing altogether and switch to the early pressure relief valve breather.

[Antichrist]

You're trapped in a time warp, Tom. The Neapco joints have been out-sourced to China; even the PDQ part. They're not made or lasting nearly as well as they once were.Odd, considering that they have "Made in USA" stamped on the u-joint itself. Including the ones I bought just a few weeks ago.


But the 5-4x joint did have the zirk in the end cap. Rookie.Spicer out-sources the 5-4x u-joints, they still list them and sell them. The 5-4x's I bought many years ago when Spicer was still making them didn't have the zerk in the end cap. I expect any you've seen with zerks in the end cap were actually made by Neapco.


As for one having a 1/4" longer cap, yes, that's 25% more grease.I didn't say the caps were .25" longer, I said the u-joint was. But I was wrong, the 1310 is 0.281" longer. But even if it did hold 25% more grease I stand by my statement that the most important lube related factor in u-joint longevity is greasing them properly.


A u-joint is just a u-joint, right? Pfff.Who said that?
Here's the side by side you asked for. The 1310 is on the left.

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/rover_driver/RoverParts/Drivetrain/1310-1300.jpg

[R_Lefebvre]

Scott, have you considered the QT diff guards? They're a little less elegant looking than the Mantec, but I like the design, helps slide over obstacles. I know you're not *supposed* be hitting things with them anyway, but out east you can't see what's hiding in the mud and water anyway.

You could paint them black before putting them on and they'd be less noticable.

[traveltoad]

Scott, have you considered the QT diff guards? They're a little less elegant looking than the Mantec, but I like the design, helps slide over obstacles. I know you're not *supposed* be hitting things with them anyway, but out east you can't see what's hiding in the mud and water anyway.

You could paint them black before putting them on and they'd be less noticable.

I had the QT and had problems with leaks at the 3rd member/axle housing joint. I got rid of the QT and have not had a leak since.

[Antichrist]

From a longevity and maintenance perspective, a pipe cap is defiintely the better choice.
Level of protection can't be beat.
Never a worry about knocking it off.
Never a worry about crud being wedged between a guard and diff pan causing the diff pan to rust out.
Easier access to the filler plug than on most diff covers I've seen.

[muskyman]

I don't know about all this big bore breather business.
You either have fresh open breathers or they're old and clogged. It's not really a CFM issue. I don't know why you need some large diameter tubing to properly vent the diffs. In fact if you want you can eliminate the tubing altogether and switch to the early pressure relief valve breather.

The bigger breather improves the operation of ARB's by a huge amount. The factory breathers are really undersized and gear oil will get pushed into them and clog up. once they do get clogged the seals will leak and gear oil will get pushed back up the high pressure line and slow the activation of the locker.

In cold weather the locker can stop working because the compressor can not clear the line.

If a truck is going to be used in wet conditions all this becomes even more important because as the housing and the gear oil heat up if the breather is plugged it will then draw moisture back in past the seals when it cools. Having the breather high in the engine compartment gives it a much better chance of drawing back in dry air.

[Mike_rupp]

I wonder if the pipe cap naysayers don't like it because they lack the skills to install one? I surely don't have the skills, but I still think they are the cats ***.

[muskyman]

From a longevity and maintenance perspective, a pipe cap is defiintely the better choice.
Level of protection can't be beat.
Never a worry about knocking it off.
Never a worry about crud being wedged between a guard and diff pan causing the diff pan to rust out.
Easier access to the filler plug than on most diff covers I've seen.

x2

the only reason I see not to do the sewer cap is the amount of work it takes, but in the end the solution is just 100% better then anything else out there I have seen.

[michaels]

Please, no sewer cap.

why? with it you don't have a mud trap on your diff waiting to rust out the cover. it's a complete replacement. it's strong as sh*t. you scared to get out a plasma or sawsall and a welder? please.

[kellymoe]

I second JSQ's recommendation on the PRV breather cap on the axle. I have the remote breather lines and they get mucked up all the time. The PRV's on my other vehicles have never had and issue with clogging and never had issue with water ingress.

[R_Lefebvre]

I had the QT and had problems with leaks at the 3rd member/axle housing joint. I got rid of the QT and have not had a leak since.

I haven't had a problem yet.

As far as the breather thing, I don't have an ARB, but I could see it makes a lot of sense to use bigger lines with an ARB. And probably not a lot of sense if you don't have an ARB. And as for the PRV's, what do they do when the axle cools and you get vacuum, suck water in?

I did some stuff with transmission vent valves at Ford, and it was a cheap POS cost save compared to just running a real line.

[JSQ]

The bigger breather improves the operation of ARB's by a huge amount. The factory breathers are really undersized and gear oil will get pushed into them and clog up. once they do get clogged the seals will leak and gear oil will get pushed back up the high pressure line and slow the activation of the locker.

In cold weather the locker can stop working because the compressor can not clear the line.

If a truck is going to be used in wet conditions all this becomes even more important because as the housing and the gear oil heat up if the breather is plugged it will then draw moisture back in past the seals when it cools. Having the breather high in the engine compartment gives it a much better chance of drawing back in dry air.

Sweet.
I'll add that to the list of reasons not to run ARBs.

Sheki has this problem on his D90. It actually spits gear oil up into his seatbox where his compressor and valves are located.

[muskyman]

Sweet.
I'll add that to the list of reasons not to run ARBs.

Sheki has this problem on his D90. It actually spits gear oil up into his seatbox where his compressor and valves are located.

tell him to check out my breather line update on discoweb. That issue will be gone for good.

ARB's make sense where I wheel because more then half the year the trails are either wet and muddy or snow covered. Add in the fact they will have off camber tree lined sections being able to unlock is just the real deal IMHO.

I also find myself on snow and ice covered roads alot and having a full time locker makes that less then fun.

[Monkeyboy]

I second JSQ's recommendation on the PRV breather cap on the axle.

Man, I had to read that twice :Wow1: I thought for a moment there we were looking for Peugeot/Renault/Volvo breathers!?

Yeah, you dry climate guys may not have issues with water in the PRV breathers....one of the first things I did to the Disco was replace / extend the breather tubes.

They've worked since '94...YMMV

KAA

[JSQ]

I'm not expressly recommending the PRV breather, but I put it out there as an option if you've just gotta make a change.
The stock breathers extended have always been fine for me. If they get old, replace them.

[traveltoad]

I haven't had a problem yet.


Ah... ok. Must not be a problem then.

[Geo14cux]

Tim Lund did a pretty good article on increasing the diameter of your axle breathers. [long time ago] I will see if I can find it....

[Scott Brady]

Tim is a solid guy, I would like to see that article.

I am an ARB Locker believer. I have probably installed 10 over the years - never a failure. I can also understand the appeal of a mechanical locker though, especially used in the Southwest.

[jeepfreak]

Spicer out-sources the 5-4x u-joints, they still list them and sell them. The 5-4x's I bought many years ago when Spicer was still making them didn't have the zerk in the end cap. I expect any you've seen with zerks in the end cap were actually made by Neapco.


I'm telling you, old timer, the 5-4x joint has been discontinued. I can't help what your good-buddy down at your local Pep-Boys tells you or what the out-dated Spicer web site says. The 5-4x is no where to be found. If you find them, get me a case of 24. I'll pay you a $50.00 finders fee.

Here are your "Made in the USA" Neapco joints.


http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33885&stc=1&d=1256260024

You can buy these joints all day long at your local Auto Zone for 12.99. Auto Zone stocks two at a time. So if you're rebuilding your D2 front drive-shaft, plan ahead.

I'm sure you have found some of the older Made In the USA Neapco joints at your local auto parts store. It's left over stock. Once they reorder they will receive the Made In China joints. This includes the PDQ and Duralast part. I've seen and used your Made In the USA joints from Neapco:


http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33886&stc=1&d=1256260416

In either case, the 1310 joint is more common. It just is. If your local-yokle parts store carries it, cool. But we do not always stay local and sometimes finding a parts store with less-common parts is a chore. Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Mazda, Chrystler, etc.. all use a 1310 u-joint. Besides Rover, I'm not sure what else uses the 1300 joints.


I didn't say the caps were .25" longer, I said the u-joint was. But I was wrong, the 1310 is 0.281" longer. But even if it did hold 25% more grease I stand by my statement that the most important lube related factor in u-joint longevity is greasing them properly.

A pic is worth a 1000 words:


http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33887&stc=1&d=1256260658

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33888&stc=1&d=1256260658

As for JSQ's comments, I'm not sure how a drive-shaft with 1310 u-joints can be dubbed the eXtreme-big-brother-trucker-breaker-breaker-one-nine-give-me-a-hell-yeah option. The Rover drive-train is junk; carrier, front axles, CV's, rear axles.... In every creditable "build", the "builder" replaces these items before calling their truck "built". "HD" axles, "HD" gears, "HD" carriers, "HD" CV's. But no "HD" drive-shaft? Why?

I do not have a Tom Woods drive-shaft here to compare, but here is a stock Rover drive flange:


http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33889&stc=1&d=1256261322

It's a cast piece. It's pretty thin, too. If you've never seen one split open, don't worry, you will. If you've never attempted to change the u-joints and had a cap just fall out, don't worry about that, either. It's coming.

Can anyone post a picture of the Tom Woods shaft? It's night and day at the flanges.

As for the tube, sure, the Tom Woods tube is thicker. But I don't care who's shaft you have; if you dent the tube you're going to twist your shaft into a candy cane.

Beside, how much is Will Tillery going to sell you a drive-shaft for? $100.00? Add some new u-joints and you've got $140 in your shaft. How much is a brand new Tom Woods shaft? $100 more? Kind of a no-brainer if you ask me.

[muskyman]

Beside, how much is Will Tillery going to sell you a drive-shaft for? $100.00? Add some new u-joints and you've got $140 in your shaft. How much is a brand new Tom Woods shaft? $100 more? Kind of a no-brainer if you ask me.

Will Tillery is a Tom Wood driveshaft dealer and sells lots of shafts for Tom.

[Steve Rupp]

Scott, I'm confused. You say you "can't" do the sewer cap. Is that because you can't physically do the fab work or because you think it's a mod that's changing the LR too far from it's original fashion? If it's because you can't do the fab work it's really not hard and such a great diff guard. Plus it gives you the opportunity to pull the housing from the truck and replace all of the bushings and rebuild the swivels. If it's because of asthetics, then that's your choice.

[Scott Brady]

Steve,

My post was not clear. We have the means to do that modification, but I am not convinced that I want to, given the use I have planned for the Disco. I need to see one in person I suppose.

[JSBriggs]

Anyone care to elaborate down side of pipe caps? I hear a few no's out there but without reasons why.

-Jeff

[Crookthumb]

One of the nice thing about the Disco1 is that all you have to do to disable the ABS is pull one 15amp fuse and the system functions as it should. I wouldn't even mess with it. It's just not worth the hassle.

It might be more hassle than it is worth, but has anyone tried and used one of the binnacle switches as a way to activate and deactivate the ABS? I think the cruise control clicker switch would work well for this purpose.

[DiscoveryXD]

It might be more hassle than it is worth, but has anyone tried and used one of the binnacle switches as a way to activate and deactivate the ABS? I think the cruise control clicker switch would work well for this purpose.


Its still too dangerous if you ask me. I had mine kick in twice before I disabled it. Both of those situations were on the street, and not the trail too.

[Crookthumb]

Yes the ABS does suck, I was just thinking of a way to activate and deactivate it like a traction control switch for those that for whatever reason want to keep the ABS as an option.

[hochung]

Anyone care to elaborate down side of pipe caps? I hear a few no's out there but without reasons why.

-Jeff

looks like ****.

[Geo14cux]

Yes the ABS does suck, I was just thinking of a way to activate and deactivate it like a traction control switch for those that for whatever reason want to keep the ABS as an option.


anything can be done! BUT is it worth the time> :ylsmoke:

[Mike_rupp]

looks like ****.

Come on Ho. What's worse, some nasty old diff protector on a thin housing or a cap that looks like it belongs there?

Now that my brother's welder is in my garage, I think my axles are getting some love.

[Antichrist]

Anyone care to elaborate down side of pipe caps? I hear a few no's out there but without reasons why.More work to install as you need to grind out the inside of the pipe cap some to clear the ring gear. You have to cut off the stamped diff cover and weld on the pipe cap.
You need a modified panhard rod to clear the pipe cap.
Looks is a personal preference so I guess it depends on how much you care what others' opinions are of your vehicle.

[Geo14cux]

More work to install as you need to grind out the inside of the pipe cap some to clear the ring gear. You have to cut off the stamped diff cover and weld on the pipe cap.
You need a modified panhard rod to clear the pipe cap.
Looks is a personal preference so I guess it depends on how much you care what others' opinions are of your vehicle.

You need a modified panhard rod

not anymore call Keith [AKA Oryctolagus cuniculus boy]

[JSQ]

It might be more hassle than it is worth, but has anyone tried and used one of the binnacle switches as a way to activate and deactivate the ABS? I think the cruise control clicker switch would work well for this purpose.


This is a terrible idea.
We don't eliminate the ABS because it's ill-suited to fourwheeling.
We pull the fuse because the Disco1 ABS is effing dangerous.

Turning it on and off with a switch would be like playing russian roulette.

[Geo14cux]

Kick the south end of a north bound jenny!
but get him while he is Bach"n it. with the smell of taco's around he might be distracted.:victory:

[Antichrist]

You need a modified panhard rod

not anymore call Keith [AKA Oryctolagus cuniculus boy]I don't see how a stock panhard rod would clear a pipe cap without grinding away a lot of the pipe cap. Or relocating the panhard rod. You have a photo?

[Geo14cux]

quit being a doubting Thomas

[JSBriggs]

I don't see how a stock panhard rod would clear a pipe cap without grinding away a lot of the pipe cap. Or relocating the panhard rod. You have a photo?

Ive had mine like this for 10 yrs. Stock panhard, no issues.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33932&d=1256490268

-Jeff

[Scott Brady]

I do like the idea of the improved fluid volume.

This week is filled with SEMA prep, but I am going to start bringing in the parts for the third-member swap. I hope to do that the week after SEMA, to allow enough break-in time and testing before the trip to Baja.

Here are a few images from Jack's trip (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mission07/). I am getting excited for my little Disco's first trip to Mexico :costumed-smiley-007

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mission07/mission07%20001%20396.jpg

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mission07/IMG_0549.jpg

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mission07/P1010283.JPG

[1leglance]

Hey Scott are you taking the Disco to SEMA or just the Jeep?
I know last year your clean white build of the Disco got great attention, it would be nice to see it there again this year.

[Scott Brady]

Just the Jeep. Though we will be bringing at least one other truck for transport during the week and to get the KTM 950 up there.

[Scott Brady]

I am doing some final preparations for my trip to Baja in the Discovery, and have one engine issue that has come-up.

Once the motor warms up a bit, the idle begins to fluctuate, sometimes nearly dying and then raising the idle to compensate. It did die completely on Stephanie the other day, yet restarted and drove ok after, with minor fluctuations in idle. I drove it again yesterday, and the idle was still erratic once warmed up. Anything over idle, and the truck is driving fine, with no stumbling, missing, etc.

MAF?

[Mike_rupp]

It is likely the stepper motor that is giving you grief. Pull the stepper motor out and clean with carb cleaner and reinstall and see if anything changes.

[muskyman]

I am with mike first place to look is the IAC. Both the actual unit and the vacuum line that controls it.

I would also check the base idle screw because the symtom you are talking about sounds like a leaky base idle screw. After setting base idle I like to fill the hole over the screw with RTV to make sure it's not sucking air.

[Scott Brady]

Thanks guys. I will check that out once back from "Jolly Old".

I made a call to Columbia Rovers, and the tech indicated the same thing.

[Antichrist]

If your IAC is bad the Delco 217-437 fits the '95 Disco. Don't know how the prices compare but it's an option.

[benlittle]

If your IAC is bad the Delco 217-437 fits the '95 Disco. Don't know how the prices compare but it's an option.

Ya, I think it's out of an astro van or something... $65 at Napa IIRC.

[muskyman]

Ya, I think it's out of an astro van or something... $65 at Napa IIRC.

I just bought one today for a 1991 RRC from autozone part #AC102 $23.99

the exact same part from Autozone if you look up the rover $199.99 :Wow1:

I have installed a number of these into the the early trucks and they work perfect.

[Crookthumb]

I had a similar issue about a year ago. On mine the RPMs would fluctuate sporadically at idle and while driving. I was thinking bad gas because I bought some from a cheap gas station. It threw a code and I ended up cleaning the MAF sensors with carb cleaner. That took care of it. I believe the K&N to be the culprit.

[R_Lefebvre]

In the K&N's defense, MAF's go bad all the time on all makes and models. The K&N may have been coincidental.

[Antichrist]

After reading K&N's air filter warranty I don't think there's anything you can use in their defense. If you use your vehicle off-road it voids the warranty, even for the filters they make for dirt bikes.
Basically they are saying, "If you use our filter for the application it's specified for, the warranty is void."

[Photog]

...................... It threw a code and I ended up cleaning the MAF sensors with carb cleaner. That took care of it. I believe the K&N to be the culprit.

The reference to K&N did not say it damaged the MAF sensor. The oil from the K&N or the extra dirt allowed to pass through it, mucked up the MAF. All Skyler (Crookthumb) did to fix it was to clean the MAF with carb cleaner.

It is a fine balance between too much oil & not enoough, on a K&N filter.

[Geo14cux]

we would use nylons soaked in air filter oil as a prefilter :roost:

[Crookthumb]

I never said it killed the MAF I just said it was getting bad readings. I cleaned it and the problem was taken care of for the time being. I just make sure that whenever I do an oil change or clean the filter that I clean the sensors. Nothing was damaged or replaced just cleaned.

I do have a Mantec raised air intake to help cut down on the amount of dirt being sucked into the airbox, and like stated before it could be a mixture of over oiling it or the K&N might be allowing too much through. I have heard others that have had problems with contaminating, not killing, MAFs while using K&Ns as well, so this lead me to believe that the K&N might be the culprit. I am not bashing K&Ns just saying clean the MAF.

Now let's not make this into a 5 page debate. I was simply stating for Scott that I had a similar issue to the fluttering idle. I cleaned my MAF with carb cleaner and that took care of the problem for the time being for me. That might not even be the cause of his problem. He might not have a K&N.

So Scott have you been able to remedy your problem?

[R_Lefebvre]

After reading K&N's air filter warranty I don't think there's anything you can use in their defense. If you use your vehicle off-road it voids the warranty, even for the filters they make for dirt bikes.
Basically they are saying, "If you use our filter for the application it's specified for, the warranty is void."


I'm not concerned with K&N's warranty. We're not discussing the filter failing. I won't run one because of their poor filtering efficiency, not because of the alleged MAF fouling. And the only warranty they are talking about, is the one on the filter. Not on the vehicle.

The question is does K&N cause MAF's to fail. K&N has a pretty interesting report on the subject. Biased? Maybe. But it's an interesting read:

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm

Sure, that report could be biased. But, so are Service Advisors. Dealerships make a lot more money if they can get the customer to pay for the repair, rather than warranty. They have an incentive to deny any warranty repair they can. If they can blindly blame it on K&N, they will.

As I said, MAF go bad all the time. My MAF just went bad, couldn't be cleaned, and I have always had a paper filter. The internet is full of discussion across all car brands, about MAF's going bad. They are not an unlimited lifetime part. It's just a fact of modern cars.

[Scott Brady]

My Discovery just turned over 90,000 miles today. In the 2.5 years of ownership, it has only had an issue with the window rollers (age) and the fuel pump.

I love driving it today as much as the day I bought it (I drive it nearly every day around Prescott). I have been very slow, even obsessive in my modification of it. In the last six months, the only change was moving from the Lightforce lights to a smaller (4") and more appearance-appropriate Baja Designs Fuego HIDs. I will post some pictures. I have a huge pile of parts sitting in the shop ready to be installed, but I will most likely never put half of them on.

I need to think of a cool solo trip to do into Baja with it, and stretch its legs a bit - maybe the Pinacate and Altar Desert.

I am starting to get a slight vibration from the front end. Likely because all of the Rover gurus were right about the DDC driveshaft, but I also just removed the crazy metal damping disc too, so further investigation will determine the root cause. I am about to tear into the diffs on the 8th of March to install the 3.90 third members with ARBs, so we will know more then. I also have a full set of the new OME Sport shocks to install, and I would like to get about 1" spring length in the rear with the same rate, as when loaded, it sags a bit past level.

I still smile every time I walk up to it. . .

Love at first sight (the day I bought it in SLC)
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/images/new/limited_DOF_Quarter.JPG

Changed just enough to reflect my tastes and needs on the trail/camping
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/images/modifications/DI_PhaseI_Fquarter.jpg

[stevenmd]

LOL, I remember when I bought my first D1. I think I stared at it every night for a year straight. Tuck the children in bed, tuck the Disco in the garage...:ylsmoke: They truly are an obsession!

[muskyman]

I still love the look of mine and it is long since "broken in"

The truck looks very clean and simple still...that is a good thing.

[Green96D1]

shes a beauty I still look at mines every chance I get :victory: even sometimes at 4am haha

[bobtail4x4]

My wife has taken mine to work this week, as her TD5 disco is in the shop,

each time I come up the drive and its not there I have a little panic, until I remember.

[SeaRubi]

I am loving these new gear ratios that are available now. 3.90 should be perfect with 30~31" tires. I'm still bummed you didn't go with 215's :elkgrin: I'm sure the 245's are better in just about every way.

cheers
-ike

[Scott Brady]

I installed a pair of Baja Designs Fuego HID driving lights. They are 4" and all metal and glass and made in the USA - perfect. I love the understated, simple solution, yet it is built with 100mph across Baja as the durability requirement.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39166&stc=1&d=1269391781

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39165&stc=1&d=1269391781

We also installed a Columbia Rovers (http://www.columbiaoverland.com/shop/discovery-i-range-rover-classic-fuel-tank-skidplate/) gas tank skidplate. It is powdercoated black and provides significantly better coverage than stock, while also not being overkill or too heavy. We will provide some detailed images and more info on this in the coming weeks.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39167&stc=1&d=1269393109

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39168&stc=1&d=1269393109

The Discovery is pulled into the shop, and is getting pulled apart to finish all the little remaining projects. The goal is to have it done by early May and take a weekend trip into the Pinacate.

Last items:
Finish wiring project
Finish differential project
New rear driveshaft
Replace water pump (small leak)
Compressor (for onboard air and Air Locker operation)
Snorkel (Mantec)
Diff Cover
New HAM radio (pulled the Icom for the JK)
Reinforce ARB bumper
Finalize recovery and tools
Finalize camping kit

I am also tempted to install a Highlander Low SD rack and the Hannibal awning from our recent. Must resist. . .

[hochung]

i am also tempted to install a highlander low sd rack . . .

lol!!

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I am also tempted to install a Highlander Low SD rack

You knew he'd come around.

[Mike_rupp]

It's pointless to resist.

[R_Lefebvre]

So, when do the 35" tires and lockers go in? ;)

I seem to have missed it, so I went back and tried to search for it but can't find the detail. What are you doing or have done with the rear bumper? This photo doesn't look stock:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39168&stc=1&d=1269393109

Are those sockets for a jack?

Just curious. I just welded my socket tubes into mine last night.

I'm also curious about your impressions on the gas tank skidplate. Columbia shows a photo of them lifting the back of the truck by the skidplate, and it seems incredible. Such a large expanse of flat aluminum, I can't see how it'd be stiff enough for that? Not without flexing a bit and probably squishing the tank and transfering some of the load to the tank top strap.

[shartzer]

That is the Rovers North bumper with two holes for a jack. I know because I recently got one. I am surprised very few people use it. It looks nearly stock but is much more heavy duty without weighing a ridiculous amount. Also it iis priced well compared to the others. I have been really happy with mine but haven't banged it up against anything yet.

I really like those lights! Are those normal ARB mounts or did you fabricate them? On my ARB ABS Disco I bumper I don't remember the mounts going nearly as far back as yours.

[R_Lefebvre]

That trailer hitch is somewhat tragic though. So it's welded on, and it's not coming off (unless the welds rust... or you cut it off) It looks like it hangs down so low and there's not much you can do about it.

[lwg]

Columbia shows a photo of them lifting the back of the truck by the skidplate, and it seems incredible. Such a large expanse of flat aluminum, I can't see how it'd be stiff enough for that? Not without flexing a bit and probably squishing the tank and transfering some of the load to the tank top strap.

That's my photo from some years ago. Was really just curious and since it was my truck and my skid I figured I should test out the idea. There really wasn't any flex however if you bounced on the truck like that there might be a little. You've got to figure that there is a little support behind it with the tank, albeit a plastic tank. Additionally there are several bends giving it strength and since both front and back are bolted down it would take quite a bit of force to really move it.

[Scott Brady]

lol!!

Yeah, I know :costumed-smiley-007

[Scott Brady]

So, when do the 35" tires and lockers go in? ;)


Never on the larger tires. In fact, I am going to go even smaller the next time around.



I seem to have missed it, so I went back and tried to search for it but can't find the detail. What are you doing or have done with the rear bumper? This photo doesn't look stock:

It is the Rovers North bumper from Proline. It is the most stock looking metal replacement I could find. It is reasonably strong and has good fit/finish. Those are jacking points.


I'm also curious about your impressions on the gas tank skidplate.

I like the skid. It takes some work to install, as the skid actually raises the clearance by moving the tank up. I am sure they can install it quickly, but it took a little work on our end. About 2 hours in total. The reason I like this skid the most, is that it serves as sufficient tank protection, yet is only about 18 pounds. The stock skid is completely inadequate, even for mild exploration. I also like that when powdercoated, the Columbia Overland skid is stealthy and looks factory.

[Momrocks]

Never on the larger tires. In fact, I am going to go even smaller the next time around.


Have you worked up the courage to go 215/85x16?

[Scott Brady]

Have you worked up the courage to go 215/85x16?

Yep, 7.5 R16 to be exact. It just feels like the right size for a DI, mine at least.

In reality, the BFG 245/75 R16 AT/KO (which I am currently running) is a great tire for the DI for most any "road". I would even be content crossing the Rubicon or Dusy with those tires.

[ersatzknarf]

Never on the larger tires. In fact, I am going to go even smaller the next time around.

I did go to 35s (35x10.50R16) and it takes a lot of $$$ to get there (we went with Rovertracks-built Sals axles front and rear, ARBs and 4.56 gears, not to mention the work to make it all fit on the car). It's a serious commitment. We are going down to a 33" tire for this new configuration. A Disco 1 can do an awful lot even just mostly stock. If I had anywhere near my stock gearing, I would look very seriously at the Michelin XPS 235/85R16 (unfortunately, that is the largest size they offer (32" OD)).



I like the skid. It takes some work to install, as the skid actually raises the clearance by moving the tank up. I am sure they can install it quickly, but it took a little work on our end. About 2 hours in total. The reason I like this skid the most, is that it serves as sufficient tank protection, yet is only about 18 pounds. The stock skid is completely inadequate, even for mild exploration. I also like that when powdercoated, the Columbia Overland skid is stealthy and looks factory.

That is a great idea for anyone with a Disco, which is rather heavy in the tush. Our skid plate is a custom one made from 5-bar ally with closed-cell foam between it and the relocated fuel tank (that Sals diff is not insignificant in size ;) )


Cheers,
Frank

[R_Lefebvre]

I like the skid. It takes some work to install, as the skid actually raises the clearance by moving the tank up. I am sure they can install it quickly, but it took a little work on our end. About 2 hours in total. The reason I like this skid the most, is that it serves as sufficient tank protection, yet is only about 18 pounds. The stock skid is completely inadequate, even for mild exploration. I also like that when powdercoated, the Columbia Overland skid is stealthy and looks factory.

Yeah, I like the Columbia plate. I would have bought one if it wasn't going to cost like $600 to get up here. The 2 hours it took you to change yours was a lot shorter than the ~20 hours it took to build mine. ;) Mine weighs about as much as the RTE.

How was the "moving up" done exactly? I didn't see a lot of clearance between the gas tank and the floor of the truck. You must now have a gap in the tank strap tensioner?

What's the thinking on the rack? Do you have that much stuff to carry, or you just like the look? (which is fine)

[Scott Brady]

That could be a difference between the D1 and DII. It moved it up 3/8 to 1/2"

[Brian McVickers]

I installed the Columbia Overland tank skid on my DII as well. It pushed the tank up slightly but not enought to cause concern for the upper side of the tank.

Install time for the DII was about 30 minutes. Place a jack under the tank and pump it up enough to support the tank, (best done when near empty!). Then remove the stock skid, position the Columbia Overland Skid and get under it to support the lot with your knees. Then remove the jack and reposition it to support both the new skid and the tank. Tighten all the bolts and you're done.
:smiley_drive:

Mine is bare aluminum but I really like the black too.

Brian

[4Rescue]

Damn Scott, that Disco is coming along nicely eh... I love the new Lights, and the Tank Skid looks to be really nicely done... Is that from Colombia Rovers here in Portland??? Not being a rover guy they don't have anything for me to drool over, but they do make some VERY nice things for Rover folks eh.

Cheers

Dave

[Scott Brady]

Yep, the Columbia Rovers you know. Good guys.

Thanks for the compliments on the Disco. It is coming along slowly but surely :D

[nosivad_bor]

The stock skid is completely inadequate, even for mild exploration. I also like that when powdercoated, the Columbia Overland skid is stealthy and looks factory.

I'm curious how you have come to this opinion. I think the stock tank configuration is completely adequate for mild exploration, and beyond.

[Scott Brady]

I'm curious how you have come to this opinion. I think the stock tank configuration is completely adequate for mild exploration, and beyond.

Just my opinion, which was formed after a Jeep punched a hole in its gas tank in Baja, in a gas station parking lot. . .

Lots of exposed plastic on the factory tank configuration.

[rovertech]

Disco is looking good Scott. The skid plate is cheap insurance and worth doing. I have bare aluminum version on my D2.

[Antichrist]

That trailer hitch is somewhat tragic though. So it's welded on, and it's not coming off (unless the welds rust... or you cut it off) It looks like it hangs down so low and there's not much you can do about it.The hitch is in the stock location relative to the chassis. The aftermarket bumper is higher than stock due to what appears to be a 2" body lift.

[R_Lefebvre]

I know the hitch is in the stock location. I'm just surprised by how they did that. And you can't just remove it if you don't need it, or get a bumper that moves it up?

[Antichrist]

Ah, ok. I thought you meant it was worse than the stock location. If I ever get around to building a rear bumper to match the body lift, I'll also be moving up the hitch.

As for raising the fuel tank, with the body lift you can move it up 2", or build one 2" deeper for additional fuel capacity.

[R_Lefebvre]

I like the way the Greg Davis bumper design moves the hitch up, and it would be beneficial on a D1 as well I'd think. The only trouble is, as I discovered, the bumper isn't very torsionally stiff. Moving the hitch up to use as a recovery point is probably fine, or if you have a real high tongue on your trailer so it's a straight pull. But if you used a drop hitch without backstays to the frame, the whole bumper twists.

Does Scott's truck have a body lift?

[rovertech]

Rob,

Agreed on the bumper/hitch. If you are going to use the towing capability frequently the stock hitch is optimal.

Scott

[R_Lefebvre]

I mean, I had my bumper beam bolted up to the frame horns with the 4 factory bolts. I also had it bracketted back to the rear crossmember using the original hitch mounting bolts, which some bumpers don't even do. When I have my drop hitch installed, I could move it 1/4" either way just by hand. There was no slop in the system, it was the horns flexing. The frame horns just aren't stiff enough to support a hitch.

So it seems to me, if you are going to tow a trailer, keep the stock hitch. If you're not, cut it off. Scott does so, that's fine. It's just tragic how low it hangs.

[muskyman]

Rob,

Agreed on the bumper/hitch. If you are going to use the towing capability frequently the stock hitch is optimal.

Scott

until it tears off the frame:Wow1:

[rovertech]

Touche. It pays to actually check the welds once in while eh? :-) Haveing worked on Rovers in the NW (Idaho, Oregon and Washington) I don't see a whole lot of trouble with rust and corrosion.

Scott

[Antichrist]

Does Scott's truck have a body lift?Looks it to me.

[R_Lefebvre]

Ok, I saw those after you mentioned it the first time, but wasn't sure if it was standard on a D1. No mention of it I could find in this thread.

[bobtail4x4]

The bobbins are standard on a D1.
its not got a body lift,

[Antichrist]

Yeah, you're right. I had to go out and look at mine. The body lift spacers are larger around and sit on top of the stock ones (it's been a while since I installed mine). I guess it was an optical delusion combined with the bumper being higher.

[muskyman]

Touche. It pays to actually check the welds once in while eh? :-) Haveing worked on Rovers in the NW (Idaho, Oregon and Washington) I don't see a whole lot of trouble with rust and corrosion.

Scott

yes it does...I now know of 6 that have torn off all total...three that I have seen with my own eyes.

[Scott Brady]

yes it does...I now know of 6 that have torn off all total...three that I have seen with my own eyes.

WOW!

I still have the details of reinforcing that draw bar. Close inspection certainly shows it is necessary. Imagine having a 5,000lb. horse trailer connected to that. :Wow1:

[Steveb]

WOW!

I still have the details of reinforcing that draw bar. Close inspection certainly shows it is necessary. Imagine having a 5,000lb. horse trailer connected to that. :Wow1:

Are the details for the reinforcement of the hitch posted somewhere?

[Scott Brady]

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs537.snc3/30453_459382538274_640113274_6210266_6910018_n.jpg
Lots of updates coming

[craig]

Damn Scott, that Disco is coming along nicely eh... I love the new Lights, and the Tank Skid looks to be really nicely done... Is that from Colombia Rovers here in Portland??? Not being a rover guy they don't have anything for me to drool over, but they do make some VERY nice things for Rover folks eh.

Cheers

Dave

As "Columbia Overland", they just started getting into the Toyota Market.

[JSQ]

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs537.snc3/30453_459382538274_640113274_6210266_6910018_n.jpg
Lots of updates coming

Sweet.

[craig]

Looks good Scott. Hope you didn't get in too much trouble at home. :)

[Scott Brady]

Looks good Scott. Hope you didn't get in too much trouble at home. :)

Lol. She is too good to me...

Going deep into the wiring projects today, including the BlueSea fuse block.

[Green96D1]

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs537.snc3/30453_459382538274_640113274_6210266_6910018_n.jpg
Lots of updates coming

i love that snorkel!:victory:

[Scott Brady]

The last two major projects are wrapping up, and should be done later this week. The wiring has been a major one, including upgrading any aftermarket wiring on the exterior of the vehicle to weather pack connectors.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_.jpg
These are for the HID lights on the front bumper, and connect at the instrument bezel to a factory switch

In the back, I installed a two-outlet 12v socket bracket and the proven BlueSea six-position fuse block.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(1).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(2).jpg

Measure twice. . .
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(3).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(5).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(6).jpg

On the ARB Compressor, I ran a 1/4" line to a chuck on the front bumper. A standard mod for me. I have always like the Goodyear hose. Never had a failure.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(7).jpg

The compressor is position where the factory jack was. The snorkel requires relocating the factory jack anyways, and this is a great spot overall.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(8).jpg

One of the features of the LVD is the ability to monitor its operation (connected or disconnected) and manually connect the house systems regardless of voltage.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(9).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/LR_Wiring_%20(10).jpg

Now, I need to just connect all of the switches in the cab and run the 4ga wire to the fuse block. Then, I need to wire-in the new Yeasu 2900 (75 watts).

On Tuesday, we finish the diffs with ARBs.

[Redline]

It's my understanding that ARB has increased the output on that compressor a couple times since introduction. So if it's a new one it should be better than mine (a couple years old) which I find okay for airing moderate sized tires.

[Scott Brady]

This truck has a 245/75. Pretty small, and easy for this compressor to manage.

I would not recommend it for much larger than a 265/75.

[Redline]

Yes, should be easy for those 245s :victory:

I've used mine with 265s, 255s, and 285s, and it's a stretch for the 285s :sombrero:

Nice work on the LR Scott.




This truck has a 245/75. Pretty small, and easy for this compressor to manage.

I would not recommend it for much larger than a 265/75.

[R_Lefebvre]

Are you leaving the fuse block exposed like that?

[Scott Brady]

Absolutely. The fridge mounts just next to it. It is completely protected with the seat back up and fridge in place.

[Mike_rupp]

Scott, I'm curious why you mounted the fuse box in the cargo area. I mounted mine next to the fuse panel underneath the steering wheel. It just seemed to be the most central location and minimized the length of wiring.

[craig]

I like that dual 12v socket bracket you picked up. Looks stout.

[R_Lefebvre]

Absolutely. The fridge mounts just next to it. It is completely protected with the seat back up and fridge in place.

Ok, well, I guess if it's protected by a permanently mounted fridge. Otherwise it just seems kind of exposed. I'm going to put one behind the little access door in the rear interior panel. There's a little vent thing back there that pulls out, I've got trailer wiring and stuff back there already. Not sure if the D1 has that?

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, it is totally out of the way and protected. You can't even see it with the seat back up and the fridge installed.

[Scott Brady]

Out with the old:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_.jpg

In with the new: I am not sure if many of you know this, but Adventure Trailers now does complete vehicle modifications. My schedule was getting tight for Mongolia, so the boys at AT installed the diffs. We also had some help from a LR guru (who works at RoverTechs in Scottsdale) Steven. Everyone did a great job, and I learned a lot. Mostly how easy LRs are to work on, once you know a few tricks.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(1).jpg

Come to find out, the rear had just been serviced (before I bought the truck), and the bearings and seals all looked great.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(2).jpg

We spent a lot of time cleaning the housing and gasket surface. Really Right Stuff put is all back together
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(3).jpg

The new diffs, from Bill at Great Basin. I have had these for months, and just now was able to install them. The pattern looked good and the 3.90 gears are actually stronger than stock (bigger pinion, etc.).
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(4).jpg

They use a bronze pad that runs tight against the ring and helps protect it from deflection.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(5).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(6).jpg

Expedition Exchange sells a set of high-quality and longer brake lines. These lines also expand less under braking pressure. We installed these front and rear, along with all new LR Genuine pads.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(8).jpg

Installing the front diff. Particular care is required with the arb air line as you slide the third member into the housing.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(9).jpg

[Scott Brady]

Steven is also a serious HAM user and has equipment to test forward and reflected power, loss, etc. We put the 2900 through its paces. I will post some images of this in the HAM section.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(10).jpg

[Scott Brady]

New factory mud flaps - oooooooooh.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=43892&stc=1&d=1278692806

I made good progress, but it looks like there is no way to finish the Disco completely before I leave for the Mongolia trip. It will be waiting for when I get back :D

[Antichrist]

I've found that mud flaps don't last very long when off-roading. The get ripped off.
They'd probably last longer if they could fully swing up out of the way (like I used to modify them for heavy off-road trucks) rather than just fold up like they do with the stock mounting.
If I can find a set for a decent price (or free if anyone has a set they don't want) maybe I'll try it.

[SeaRubi]

I was curious on the slipper pad - does Bill recommend leaving the pad backed off for highway and pavement driving, and then torquing it down for difficult sections of trail? It seems like the wear on the brass pad is kind of unnecessary for 99% of the time? also, is the boss in the diff threaded, letting the silver nut on there serve as a lock nut, or is it relying on thread tension from the bolt to stay snugged up?

looking great, as usual. :beer:

[Scott Brady]

I've found that mud flaps don't last very long when off-roading. The get ripped off.

I agree. I rarely, if ever run mud flaps.

I like the Disco factory mud flaps for some odd reason. Maybe it is the little mountain graphic. . .

[stolenheron]

I've found that mud flaps don't last very long when off-roading. The get ripped off.


i remounted my factory D2 rear mudflaps higher to start where my RTE bumper began rather than so low like the factory mounting point. i was skeptical that they would last through anything remotely difficult, but they made it through Hidden Falls. sliders, RTE rear bumper, both diff guards took hits that day, even broke both motor mounts, but somehow they survived.

i guess i got lucky. i will remove them permanently once one gets ripped off, i just figured i'd try to keep them as long as they lasted.

oh and dont take this on me being "pro-mud flap for offroad vehicles". i'm just saying i figured i'd use mine for as long as i could to prevent part of my RTE's notorious powdercoating from chipping. so far its worked well, once gone they will be gone for good.

and yeah, the "flappy" mud flaps vs the stiff ones are MUCH better.

[muskyman]

I was curious on the slipper pad - does Bill recommend leaving the pad backed off for highway and pavement driving, and then torquing it down for difficult sections of trail? It seems like the wear on the brass pad is kind of unnecessary for 99% of the time? also, is the boss in the diff threaded, letting the silver nut on there serve as a lock nut, or is it relying on thread tension from the bolt to stay snugged up?

looking great, as usual. :beer:

this has been done since the early 1950's on ford 9" diffs. setting the tension and running it like that is not a issue. think of like a brass bearing running on a hard crank shaft...do you have to back off your bearings on the highway?

[benlittle]

Auto zone sells those same mud flaps for like $15 bucks.

[Adrift]

Auto zone sells those same mud flaps for like $15 bucks.

I'm gonna have to look into this....

[R_Lefebvre]

I've found that mud flaps don't last very long when off-roading. The get ripped off.
They'd probably last longer if they could fully swing up out of the way (like I used to modify them for heavy off-road trucks) rather than just fold up like they do with the stock mounting.
If I can find a set for a decent price (or free if anyone has a set they don't want) maybe I'll try it.

You could do what I did. Made a quick removal mount. Each mudflap is held on with 2 lynch pins. They pop off in seconds. I went with mudflaps mainly because I do so much towing, and lots of gravel roads at speed.


I was curious on the slipper pad - does Bill recommend leaving the pad backed off for highway and pavement driving, and then torquing it down for difficult sections of trail? It seems like the wear on the brass pad is kind of unnecessary for 99% of the time? also, is the boss in the diff threaded, letting the silver nut on there serve as a lock nut, or is it relying on thread tension from the bolt to stay snugged up?


Basically what will happen is the brass will very quickly wear so that it is NOT making contact under normal conditions. It will wear a small clearance so that it's like it wasn't there. But, when the axle is really loaded up, and things start to flex, the pad will stop the internals from flexing even more.

[revor]

My front ones are still on, you can see them there just behind the tire.

[Monkeyboy]

My front ones are still on, you can see them there just behind the tire.

Hey, me too!

The rears however...not so much :sombrero:

[Viggen]

With all this electrical accessories, what output alternator are you running?

[Scott Brady]

It is just the stock alternator (I carry a spare). The only real draw while driving is the fridge. The HIDs are low draw. The stock alternator should be fine, and has already performed well with the fridge, etc. (I just ran the fridge to the factory cig lighter.

I think it will be ok, but can run a test on all the loads to be sure. That would probably be worth doing

[SeaRubi]

It is just the stock alternator (I carry a spare). The only real draw while driving is the fridge. The HIDs are low draw. The stock alternator should be fine, and has already performed well with the fridge, etc. (I just ran the fridge to the factory cig lighter.

I think it will be ok, but can run a test on all the loads to be sure. That would probably be worth doing

a buddy of mine has had great luck with a WranglerNW replacement on a heavily accessorized rangie, fwiw.

http://tinyurl.com/26ozgez
cheers
-ike

[Green96D1]

Out with the old:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_.jpg

In with the new: I am not sure if many of you know this, but Adventure Trailers now does complete vehicle modifications. My schedule was getting tight for Mongolia, so the boys at AT installed the diffs. We also had some help from a LR guru (who works at RoverTechs in Scottsdale) Steven. Everyone did a great job, and I learned a lot. Mostly how easy LRs are to work on, once you know a few tricks.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(1).jpg

Come to find out, the rear had just been serviced (before I bought the truck), and the bearings and seals all looked great.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(2).jpg

We spent a lot of time cleaning the housing and gasket surface. Really Right Stuff put is all back together
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(3).jpg

The new diffs, from Bill at Great Basin. I have had these for months, and just now was able to install them. The pattern looked good and the 3.90 gears are actually stronger than stock (bigger pinion, etc.).
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(4).jpg

They use a bronze pad that runs tight against the ring and helps protect it from deflection.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(5).jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(6).jpg

Expedition Exchange sells a set of high-quality and longer brake lines. These lines also expand less under braking pressure. We installed these front and rear, along with all new LR Genuine pads.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(8).jpg

Installing the front diff. Particular care is required with the arb air line as you slide the third member into the housing.
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Diffs_%20(9).jpg

Wow Scott you have been busy. looking good :victory:

[Mike_rupp]

Scott, did you replace the axle shafts front and or rear? I've been going the CB route and just run the OEM front CV joints / shafts and carry spares, but I'll get new fronts one of these days.

[muskyman]

Scott

is that right stuff sealent on the diff 3rds?

[Viggen]

It is just the stock alternator (I carry a spare). The only real draw while driving is the fridge. The HIDs are low draw. The stock alternator should be fine, and has already performed well with the fridge, etc. (I just ran the fridge to the factory cig lighter.

I think it will be ok, but can run a test on all the loads to be sure. That would probably be worth doing

Stock output (whats the amp?) and single battery? What are the two 12v outlets in the rear for and what are you hooking up to the fusebox? Im thinking about running a cable from the battery to the rear where I will have a fusebox to run a fridge, compressor and the two rear spot lamps. At least, thats what I am thinking.

[Scott Brady]

Scott, did you replace the axle shafts front and or rear? I've been going the CB route and just run the OEM front CV joints / shafts and carry spares, but I'll get new fronts one of these days.

Mike,

Stock for now. The more I researched the shaft upgrades, the more compromises I find. I will be looking at all the options again once back from Asia

Fortunately, Rover made these shafts easy to swap out. I also had an interesting discussion with one of the Camel Trophy organizers some time ago, and they experimented with several shaft types and ultimately decided to stick with stock, as they were easy to swap and served as a fuseable link (saving the more expensive and more difficult to change differentials, etc.) Just another perspective I found interesting.

[Scott Brady]

Scott

is that right stuff sealent on the diff 3rds?

Yes. It is what the Rover tech spec'ed out. No leaks so far.

[Scott Brady]

Stock output (whats the amp?) and single battery? What are the two 12v outlets in the rear for and what are you hooking up to the fusebox? Im thinking about running a cable from the battery to the rear where I will have a fusebox to run a fridge, compressor and the two rear spot lamps. At least, thats what I am thinking.

With the loads I have, the stock alternator and the AGM battery are fine. The Discover battery has over 80ah and floats at 13v. It does a good job with the efficient National Luna fridge. I also have a LVD to protect starting voltage.

Stock alternator output is 100amps. More than adequate IMO.

[Antichrist]

Fortunately, Rover made these shafts easy to swap out. I also had an interesting discussion with one of the Camel Trophy organizers some time ago, and they experimented with several shaft types and ultimately decided to stick with stock, as they were easy to swap and served as a fuseable link (saving the more expensive and more difficult to change differentials, etc.) Just another perspective I found interesting.IIRC, the Camel Trophy trucks didn't have locking diffs, which can make a difference in what half shaft you choose. Also they had the stock gearing, which isn't as strong as the 3.9:1 you went with.

Interestingly, it was the diffs that kept grenading in the Range Rovers, not the half shafts, during the Darien Gap leg of the Trans-American drive. Sme diffs as the stock Disco. Of course the Range Rovers were grossly over-loaded.

[Mike_rupp]

Mike,

Stock for now. The more I researched the shaft upgrades, the more compromises I find. I will be looking at all the options again once back from Asia

Fortunately, Rover made these shafts easy to swap out. I also had an interesting discussion with one of the Camel Trophy organizers some time ago, and they experimented with several shaft types and ultimately decided to stick with stock, as they were easy to swap and served as a fuseable link (saving the more expensive and more difficult to change differentials, etc.) Just another perspective I found interesting.

Well, the stock diffs are weak as can be. Now that you put the ARBs, in the rear axle shafts will be the next weakest link, like you mentioned. The problem is that they are really, really weak compared to the rest of the drivetrain and you will be changing a lot of axle shafts if you lock the ARB. My brother snapped a rear shaft literally 2 miles after installing his Detroit. One little dirt ledge where the bulk of weight of the vehicle was on one side of the rear and pop.

With my 235s / rear DT w/ GBR shafts / front TT & stock shafts/cvs, I've been fine for years, even with some less than perfect driving on slickrock. I know that I'm on borrowed time, but I keep spares, just in case.

I'm not sure if Thom dislikes Right Stuff for sealing the thirds, but that's what I just used when swapping thirds from my silver Disco to my XD. We'll see how well it holds.

[chris snell]

Stock output (whats the amp?) and single battery? What are the two 12v outlets in the rear for and what are you hooking up to the fusebox? Im thinking about running a cable from the battery to the rear where I will have a fusebox to run a fridge, compressor and the two rear spot lamps. At least, thats what I am thinking.

Anderson PowerPoles are the ticket for a quick disconnect for the fridge and similar accessories. I'm surprised that more people don't run them. More secure and easier to conceal than a cigarette outlet.

[JSQ]

Scott, you want HD shafts in the rear. Any of them will do. Otherwise you will be changing them every other time you lock the ARB.
In the front you can stick to your fuse principle and stay stock so that you break halfshafts instead of CVs.

[Scott Brady]

I like the idea of stronger shafts in the rear, especially with weight transfer on climbs, etc.

Ashcroft seems to be in vogue at the moment. Recommendations?

[Monkeyboy]

I've had a pair of Great Basin shafts in the rear axle of the Disco - with a Detroit - for years.

There's no visible damage to them at all.

Having said that, I had RoverTracks source the shafts in the rear of the 109, and they're just like new...of course, it's still "in progress" ;)

[Mike_rupp]

I've had GBRs forever. My only minor gripe is that the axle flange sticks out far enough that the center caps on the alloy rims wont fit anymore.

That being said, I think any of the rear axles out there would work fine.

[Monkeyboy]

I've had GBRs forever. My only minor gripe is that the axle flange sticks out far enough that the center caps on the alloy rims wont fit anymore.

Really? My "castor" wheels on the '94 fit over them?

Maybe the later wheels are just different enough??

...blast, now I'm going to have to test fit one of the "freestyle's" :sombrero:

[muskyman]

Yes. It is what the Rover tech spec'ed out. No leaks so far.

the down side is getting the 3rd back out on the trail if a failure happens.

I had to service a failed rear diff that had been sealed in place with right stuff.

with all the nuts removed on the diff I lifted the rear of the truck off the ground by the pinion before the sealent let go.:Wow1:

I use ultra blue for this seal as its great for sealing through contamination and it takes very little force to break it loose

[Mike_rupp]

Really? My "castor" wheels on the '94 fit over them?

Maybe the later wheels are just different enough??

...blast, now I'm going to have to test fit one of the "freestyle's" :sombrero:

I don't think it's related to the wheel, but the axle flange. If I'm correct, GBR's axles / flanges have changed slightly over the years. I bought mine in 2000 or 2001.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4810437610_089b2d913a_b.jpg

[AxeAngel]

I just wish the prices of axles would come down a bit. I have a V6 w elocker and 4.10s waiting to be installed when the rear toy GB conversion materializes and if the price is decent.

-Sam

[nosivad_bor]

My GBR axles have held up fine but the nut on the flange can get loose and allow oil to leak. If I were to buy new I'd get the rovertracks.com axles because the flange is integrated, and they look more stock.

[Monkeyboy]

I don't think it's related to the wheel, but the axle flange.

Ooo, you got the later / fancy pants cap :)

Mine are indeed flatter and just came with a label on them.


...pssttt...I'd get Keith's too any more...mine are older than "Rovertracks"

My end cap came loose once in western Nebraska. A little "Indian Head" gasket cement and they're still there years later.

[JSQ]

These guys are right.
For the tires you're going to run any of these shafts will do. GBR (MaxiDrive), Ashcroft, Rovertracks, etc...
That said I'm kind of liking KAM right now.

[chris snell]

My GBR axles have held up fine but the nut on the flange can get loose and allow oil to leak. If I were to buy new I'd get the rovertracks.com axles because the flange is integrated, and they look more stock.

Rob, I'm running some rear shafts that Keith said he was testing out. They shipped from Lucky 8, so I don't know what they are but I suspect KAM or Ashcroft. I'm vey happy with them. They are flangeless just like the front shafts and I'm running stock flanges on them, which I sealed up with Right Stuff. Maybe Keith will comment on the true identity of these shafts and whether RoverTracks will be transitioning to them.

[chris snell]

the down side is getting the 3rd back out on the trail if a failure happens.

I had to service a failed rear diff that had been sealed in place with right stuff.

with all the nuts removed on the diff I lifted the rear of the truck off the ground by the pinion before the sealent let go.:Wow1:


I used Right Stuff on my thirds. I had to pull them soon thereafter because my early 94 truck had some weird short studs that were atypical of D90s and I couldn't get the nuts on. I had smeared that crap on like a third grader and when I pulled them, I had to use a prybar and some major cojones to get them out but it can be done on the trail, alone even. When I reinstalled, I scraped the mounds of old sealant off and was careful to only use a thin sheen. No leaks ao far.

[SeaRubi]

i liked the rovertracks axles i had on the rangie. detroit and 33's.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~thefains/img/roverPics/drive_members.jpg

[Antichrist]

I guess I'm the odd man out again. I've always had good results with cleaning the surfaces well, Hylomar and the stock paper gaskets.

[muskyman]

I used Right Stuff on my thirds. I had to pull them soon thereafter because my early 94 truck had some weird short studs that were atypical of D90s and I couldn't get the nuts on. I had smeared that crap on like a third grader and when I pulled them, I had to use a prybar and some major cojones to get them out but it can be done on the trail, alone even. When I reinstalled, I scraped the mounds of old sealant off and was careful to only use a thin sheen. No leaks ao far.


yes and that was only after a short period...the diff I pulled had been in there for a few years and like I said I lifted half the truck off the ground and it didnt pop off.

all in all I think right stuff is just to positive for that application when ultra blue or hylomar both do a great job of preventing a leak.

[oryxexpeditions]

[QUOTE=Hank;409556]Having a computer and having Internet access are two different things. My laptop is my GPS, my maps, my phone book, my MP3 player, my OBD2 reader, my tech manual, memory card dump, etc... As much as I hate the way it looks, fits, and goes against the rules of "camping", it's too much of a time saver to leave behind when needed.

That's a lot of important info to leave to the chance of electronic failure. Always good to carry an analog compass, maps, sextant, etc and know how to use them. Gives one a better sense of terrain than looking at an electronic display as well.

[Steveb]

[QUOTE=Hank;409556]Having a computer and having Internet access are two different things. My laptop is my GPS, my maps, my phone book, my MP3 player, my OBD2 reader, my tech manual, memory card dump, etc... As much as I hate the way it looks, fits, and goes against the rules of "camping", it's too much of a time saver to leave behind when needed.

That's a lot of important info to leave to the chance of electronic failure. Always good to carry an analog compass, maps, sextant, etc and know how to use them. Gives one a better sense of terrain than looking at an electronic display as well.

Do you seriously carry a sextant?

[benlittle]

Rob, I'm running some rear shafts that Keith said he was testing out. They shipped from Lucky 8, so I don't know what they are but I suspect KAM or Ashcroft. I'm vey happy with them. They are flangeless just like the front shafts and I'm running stock flanges on them, which I sealed up with Right Stuff. Maybe Keith will comment on the true identity of these shafts and whether RoverTracks will be transitioning to them.

I'm running rovertracks rears and they've held up fine also. One thing I don't like though is how the flange is integrated into the axle. They are round and require an aluminum spacer. This makes them stick out and look kind of ugly. Personally, I'd rather have a flangeless axle and run either HD or stock flanges.

[oryxexpeditions]

Yes. Off track, in relatively featureless terrain, like open plains or desert, it's indispensable as a backup, because it allows one to find one's position independent of landmarks other than the horizon, and works day or night. With proper knowledge of celestial navigation, one can be a true master of overland, or oversea travel without relying on powered technology. That's why it's still standard equipment on ships at sea.

[ren ching]

Laughing to myself at this post...I have owned a bunch of Series LR's. The diffs always leaked a little, never bothered me as I just took it for granted that they all did it. I always used gaskets and RTV and they still leaked. But my Series trucks all leaked so much it was hard to tell where it really came from.

Then I got a RRC. No leaks. NONE. And yes it had oil in it. It came with ARB diffs front and rear, which I eventually swapped into my '84 D90. (Which also didn't leak, btw). I was amazed to see that both trucks had no gaskets on the diffs, just sealant.

So when I put the diffs back, I used Right Stuff. Knowing full well it would take some "doing" to get them off. On my 90 I also had to change a few studs, only discovered after installing the diff. I managed to remove it ok as the RS had not set up. I will admit though that at least one of the new studs did not go in perfectly straight. It took a bit of effort to get that diff back in. Should be REAL fun getting it out.

BTW I have found that for removing a "stuck" diff, my method of choice is a 6 foot long pine 2x6 applied in anger, "battering ram style" to the pinion area. Hasn't failed yet. Though there aren't alot of pine 2x6's hanging around for my convenience out on the trails. Next time I will try something less aggressive I guess. I'm just happy they don't leak.

I hope Scotty doesn't cuss me too bad when he goes to swap the diffs on the RRC. If he ever gets it running again.




I used Right Stuff on my thirds. I had to pull them soon thereafter because my early 94 truck had some weird short studs that were atypical of D90s and I couldn't get the nuts on. I had smeared that crap on like a third grader and when I pulled them, I had to use a prybar and some major cojones to get them out but it can be done on the trail, alone even. When I reinstalled, I scraped the mounds of old sealant off and was careful to only use a thin sheen. No leaks ao far.

[jrose609]

How are the 3.90 gears working out? How is the gear noise compared to the 3.54's? Was there a noticeable difference in driveability? I would like to lower my gear ratio a bit, and I've been looking for a 1.4 t-case, but I think perhaps a white unicorn would be easier to locate in the US. So if not a 1.4, then I was thinking the 3.90 gears.

[Antichrist]

How are the 3.90 gears working out? How is the gear noise compared to the 3.54's? Was there a noticeable difference in driveability? I would like to lower my gear ratio a bitYou're actually increasing the ratio when you go from 3.54:1 to 3.9:1.
It does results in "lower" overall gearing, which is what I'm sure you're wanting.

[jrose609]

You're actually increasing the ratio when you go from 3.54:1 to 3.9:1.
It does results in "lower" overall gearing, which is what I'm sure you're wanting.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had just gotten off work this morning after an 18 hour shift. Was dead tired.

I realize I mis-spoke. I do want to lower the gearing.......increase the ratio.

I was just wondering how Scott likes the 3.90 ratio............

[JSQ]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had just gotten off work this morning after an 18 hour shift. Was dead tired.

I realize I mis-spoke. I do want to lower the gearing.......increase the ratio.

I was just wondering how Scott likes the 3.90 ratio............

You don't have to buy a 1.4 t-case. You can just buy the high range gears and rebuild the case you have. There's only a 9 out of 10 chance it needs a reseal anyways.

I got a set from Rob Dassler.
Southwest Rovers LLC 505-872-7818

Should be somewhere around $4-500.

[timmy!!!!!!!]

You don't have to buy a 1.4 t-case. You can just buy the high range gears and rebuild the case you have. There's only a 9 out of 10 chance it needs a reseal anyways.

I got a set from Rob Dassler.
Southwest Rovers LLC 505-872-7818

Should be somewhere around $4-500.

How hard was it to rebuild?

[R_Lefebvre]

Or about $350 from Ashcroft directly.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=70

[timmy!!!!!!!]

You also have to get another input gear at 65 pounds sterling.

[JSQ]

How hard was it to rebuild?


I guess it's all relative.
I should think anyone posting in or reading this thread would either know how or be very interested in learning on their own be it hard or easy.

Then again some people call AAA when they get a flat tire.

[R_Lefebvre]

How hard was it to rebuild?

YouTube- LT230 Transfer Build

To get an idea.

Watching him pound some of the bearings in at 1:08 is a little scary. :Wow1:


You also have to get another input gear at 65 pounds sterling.

Where did you see that?

[timmy!!!!!!!]

I think I just don't have access to a shop to do that then. Otherwise I would try to get the gears and do it myself. I know I could drop a transfer case in a parking lot but taking apart the innards would be a different story.

[revor]

How are the 3.90 gears working out? How is the gear noise compared to the 3.54's? Was there a noticeable difference in driveability? I would like to lower my gear ratio a bit, and I've been looking for a 1.4 t-case, but I think perhaps a white unicorn would be easier to locate in the US. So if not a 1.4, then I was thinking the 3.90 gears.

I'm of the opinion that you will benefit more by swapping the diff gears. While the 1.4 high range will give you the same (similar enough) final drive ratio as 4.1's in high range the final drive in low range is no lower. If you swap the gears and maintain the 1.2 high range the final drive in high is like the 1.4 but the low range final drive is much lower offering you much more control in the tricky stuff.

[jrose609]

You don't have to buy a 1.4 t-case. You can just buy the high range gears and rebuild the case you have. There's only a 9 out of 10 chance it needs a reseal anyways.

I got a set from Rob Dassler.
Southwest Rovers LLC 505-872-7818

Should be somewhere around $4-500.
Thanks, Jack. I will get in touch with Rob. I wouldn't mind trying it myself.

[Scott Brady]

How are the 3.90 gears working out? How is the gear noise compared to the 3.54's? Was there a noticeable difference in driveability? I would like to lower my gear ratio a bit, and I've been looking for a 1.4 t-case, but I think perhaps a white unicorn would be easier to locate in the US. So if not a 1.4, then I was thinking the 3.90 gears.

I didn't have enough driving miles on it before leaving for Asia. Initial impressions were good as expected.

I am not sure I see the advantage of the 1.4 high range route. I would actually prefer to use a 1:1 high range case ratio (which I believe is available) and run 4:14 axle gearing. That gives an even lower low range ratio and still strong gears. Of course this is just conceptual as there may be some technical reason this is not a good idea. . .

[jrose609]

I didn't have enough driving miles on it before leaving for Asia. Initial impressions were good as expected.

I am not sure I see the advantage of the 1.4 high range route. I would actually prefer to use a 1:1 high range case ratio (which I believe is available) and run 4:14 axle gearing. That gives an even lower low range ratio and still strong gears. Of course this is just conceptual as there may be some technical reason this is not a good idea. . .

Scott, I have a Tdi in my D1. Low range can be compared to an experience driving something manufactured by John Deere. The three hundy just chugs over the trails in low range.

My reason for the 1.4 is to "increase" the gear ratio in high range. I have 3.54 diffs. Most of the people I talk to recommend staying with the 3.54 diffs. The 3.54 gears are quiet, very strong, and cheap to replace. Stock diffs are a dime a dozen.

Seems it would be a lot less labor to install a 1.4 tcase. However, finding a 1.4 seems to be a different story.

[timmy!!!!!!!]

Seems it would be a lot less labor to install a 1.4 tcase. However, finding a 1.4 seems to be a different story.

No joke!

[R_Lefebvre]

I didn't have enough driving miles on it before leaving for Asia. Initial impressions were good as expected.

I am not sure I see the advantage of the 1.4 high range route. I would actually prefer to use a 1:1 high range case ratio (which I believe is available) and run 4:14 axle gearing. That gives an even lower low range ratio and still strong gears. Of course this is just conceptual as there may be some technical reason this is not a good idea. . .

Funny you mention that, that's just what I was thinking to get a better crawl ratio, rather than the complexity of an underdrive unit.

[yubert]

Seems it would be a lot less labor to install a 1.4 tcase. However, finding a 1.4 seems to be a different story.

Did you check with Toddco Suspensions?

http://www.toddcosuspensions.com/larotrcage.html

[Scott Brady]

The Disco is finished:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/images/Discovery_Finished_.jpg

I am just now buttoning up a few switchgear items and waiting for the rear Escape Gear seat covers, but the truck is essentially done- I am pleased, and ready to put it to use. I am thinking a trip into Northern Sonora for spring.

The diesel swap is off the table for a few reasons (mainly the J8 siting in the parking lot), but mostly because the V8 only has 80,000 miles on it. I also had a few other ideas for modifications, but have decided to table all of them. None are necessary for what I want the Disco to do.

Returning from the Silk Road a few days ago, the Disco was the first vehicle I drove (though the KTM nearly won that contest). The love was still there - isn't she beautiful?

[Viggen]

Am I right in thinking that youre still running a rotoflex rear shaft?

[Scott Brady]

Good timing on your question. I have a new Tom Woods rear CV shaft coming on Monday.

When I installed the new diffs, I changed from the Rotoflex to a 4-bolt flange.

[BIGdaddy]

Good timing on your question. I have a new Tom Woods rear CV shaft coming on Monday.

When I installed the new diffs, I changed from the Rotoflex to a 4-bolt flange.

What is the thinking behind that upgrade, Scott? Is the rotoflex a source/point of failure?

Every time we see a series 1 my wife goes ooh, and Aaaah...lol. Might be adding one to my stable.:D

[craig]

The truck came out really nice. I like what you did with it. Very thoughtful upgrades to a purpose built rig.

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm curious too. I just haven't seen them failing that often. I just changed mine pre-emptively at 60,000 miles, 20,000 of which was lifted. The rubber was cracked but otherwise it was ok. Seems like good life to me. I'm much more concerned about the 1300 U-joint in front of it. I changed that as well, and judging by the looks of it, it was much closer to failing than the donut.

[Scott Brady]

I was indifferent about the Rotoflex until I witnessed one shred apart in Moab on a rock - a mess of wire and rubber. . . I think if you put a skid plate (a few make them) to protect the Rotoflex from rock damage, than it is probably fine.

[R_Lefebvre]

Ok well, I'm carrying my old one as an emergency spare anyway. And in any case, it's not a crippling problem like a rad hose, fan belt of CkPS.

[Scott Brady]

The truck came out really nice. I like what you did with it. Very thoughtful upgrades to a purpose built rig.

Thanks Craig. This was a very personal project for me, and I am quite the proud parent.

[timmy!!!!!!!]

How do you like the 3.9 gears?

[Scott Brady]

Yesterday was my first long drive with the Disco and the new gears. 3.90s seem perfect for the set-up I have. It is most noticeable on takoff and cruising in 5th. The gears are stronger than stock and address the slightly larger tires and additional weight. If I had made the decision to keep the V8 earlier, I would probably have installed the 4.14s.

[Viggen]

I was just wondering. Mine hasnt been there for a long time as its usually the first thing to go. I hate them. Im a British car guy and Triumph LOVED using them instead of joints. They were expensive and wore much to quickly as they really dont allow much articulation in that area. I have one of those skidplates that protects the rear joint there. Its come in handy a couple of times.

Truck looks clean. I look at it and realize that mine will never be that clean. Oh well.

[R_Lefebvre]

What did you end up doing for diff protection? I can't see anything under there. Sewer cap?

[Scott Brady]

I have a simple, black steel weld-on unit. It looks just like the Mantec one, which works for me. I will take a picture of it later.

[upcruiser]

Hey Scott, what size rubber did you end up running? I know you were going back and forth over possible sizes. Looks like 235/85 in that shot which is what I am running on my D1 and I am looking for some feedback on gearing. My stock gears work awesome on the highway, especially with the 4.6 conversion but I find myself wanting lower gearing when working technical terrain. I swapped out the rear rotoflex last spring as the rubber was starting to chunk pretty good.

The truck looks great and I will second the notion that a mildly built D1 is a fairly capable vehicle that is a great compromise of good handling, ergonomics, handling, off road ability and ranks on the fun factor to drive.

[Ronct110]

The Disco is finished:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/images/Discovery_Finished_.jpg

Very nice!

[Green96D1]

The Disco is finished:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/images/Discovery_Finished_.jpg

I am just now buttoning up a few switchgear items and waiting for the rear Escape Gear seat covers, but the truck is essentially done- I am pleased, and ready to put it to use. I am thinking a trip into Northern Sonora for spring.

The diesel swap is off the table for a few reasons (mainly the J8 siting in the parking lot), but mostly because the V8 only has 80,000 miles on it. I also had a few other ideas for modifications, but have decided to table all of them. None are necessary for what I want the Disco to do.

Returning from the Silk Road a few days ago, the Disco was the first vehicle I drove (though the KTM nearly won that contest). The love was still there - isn't she beautiful?

Man she is HOT!:drool::victory:

[SpencerFitch]

Hey Scott, what size rubber did you end up running?

I believe its 245/74/16

[muskyman]

I'm curious too. I just haven't seen them failing that often. I just changed mine pre-emptively at 60,000 miles, 20,000 of which was lifted. The rubber was cracked but otherwise it was ok. Seems like good life to me. I'm much more concerned about the 1300 U-joint in front of it. I changed that as well, and judging by the looks of it, it was much closer to failing than the donut.

You have to be kidding right?

You are more concerned about the 1300 ujoint then tearing up a roto-flex using your disco off road?

Hang in there in time you will see how silly this comment really is.

[muskyman]

And yes Scott the truck looks great...you will be very happy with the rear TW shaft.

[Antichrist]

I'm much more concerned about the 1300 U-joint in front of it. I changed that as well, and judging by the looks of it, it was much closer to failing than the donut.They come from the factory with a zerk fitting in that u-joint. Had it been lubed every 5k miles so that new grease came from around all 4 seals on it?
If not, you can't use it's condition as any sort of measurement. Actually, that is was still functioning if it hadn't been maintained would be a measure of it's suitability, not the lack thereof.

[R_Lefebvre]

You have to be kidding right?

You are more concerned about the 1300 ujoint then tearing up a roto-flex using your disco off road?

Hang in there in time you will see how silly this comment really is.

Like I said, I just haven't seen it happening nearly so often as U-joint failures. Maybe that's because the rotoflex is maintenance-free whereas the Ujoints need to be lubed, and people don't, so the joints fail. Or maybe not that many people on the web actually going offroad. I dunno. Just commenting on what I've seen.


They come from the factory with a zerk fitting in that u-joint. Had it been lubed every 5k miles so that new grease came from around all 4 seals on it?
If not, you can't use it's condition as any sort of measurement. Actually, that is was still functioning if it hadn't been maintained would be a measure of it's suitability, not the lack thereof.


I can't say what the OP actually did or not.

Anyway, I accept the net wisdom of it, but it's lower down on my list of priorities. I'm sure eventually I'll end up with the TW shaft with 1310's front and rear. Right now, I'm planning on going over the cooling system. Coolant, Tstat and hoses.

[haven]

If you're interested in building a replica of the Expeditions West Discovery, here are a few currently advertised cars to consider as a starting point. Scott's vehicle has a cloth interior, manual transmission, and no sunroof. That's a rare combination. Most of the cars listed below differ in at least one of these parameters.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=284254700

1998 LR Discovery LE
57K miles $7950
for sale by dealer in Ohio
White over tan leather


http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=283622382

1996 LR Discovery SD
77K miles, $6588
for sale by dealer in Baldwin Park CA
one owner California car

If you're willing to buy a car someone else has wheeled hard

http://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/1920040917.html
1995 LR Discovery
78K miles, $3100
5 speed transmission
4 inch lift, 33 inch tires, ARB bumper
full length roof rack, ladder on rear door
for sale by owner near Asheville NC


and if you're willing to take a chance on a high mileage car

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/1944902105.html

1996 LR Discovery SD
198K miles, $2100
5 speed, cloth seats, no sunroof
for sale by owner in Irving Texas

[Antichrist]

I can't say what the OP actually did or not.Yeah, I know, just sorta making a point. That it probably wasn't maintained properly. :bike_rider:

[Scott Brady]

Installed a new rear driveshaft in the Disco today. I had Tom Wood build a CV and non-CV style shaft to help track down some of the rear driveshaft vibrations. I set the pinion to about 1 degrees and installed the CV shaft. We will see how smooth it runs in a few minutes.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/projects/2010/Tom_Wood_.jpg

[R_Lefebvre]

Uh, out of stainless? Mine sure wasn't that pretty!

[Scott Brady]

It is polished steel and clear powdercoated

[Viggen]

It is polished steel and clear powdercoated

Why two of the same length shafts?

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm guessing he's going to try both and see which solves his vibes, then sell the other one.

[Viggen]

I didnt think that one style propshaft is going to effect driveline vibes. I thought the additional joints were added for driveline flexibility rather than to solve a vibration issue. If I was having vibrations, I wouldve gone straight to an out of balance shaft and then tires/ wheels.

[MoGas]

Why two of the same length shafts?



..........I had Tom Wood build a CV and non-CV style shaft to help track down some of the rear driveshaft vibrations......

:coffee:

[gjackson]

I didnt think that one style propshaft is going to effect driveline vibes. I thought the additional joints were added for driveline flexibility rather than to solve a vibration issue. If I was having vibrations, I wouldve gone straight to an out of balance shaft and then tires/ wheels.

Land Rovers end up with pretty severe prop shaft angles when you lift them, especially in the front. Major effect of this is a nasty vibration on the driveline when coasting. Best way to get rid of it is to replace the front prop with a double. Scott already has a double (or double double) on the front, so he's investigating still existing vibrations towards the rear.

I'm sure Scott will correct me if I'm wrong.

cheers

[jrose609]

Land Rovers end up with pretty severe prop shaft angles when you lift them, especially in the front. Major effect of this is a nasty vibration on the driveline when coasting. Best way to get rid of it is to replace the front prop with a double. Scott already has a double (or double double) on the front, so he's investigating still existing vibrations towards the rear.

I'm sure Scott will correct me if I'm wrong.

cheers

I put RTE rear arms on my D1. They are adjusted for suspension height. Fixed my rear end vibration. Corrected the pinion angle in the rear.

[R_Lefebvre]

I assume he has pulled one shaft, and then the other, test driving, to isolate which shaft is causing the problems?

One of the reasons I kept the Rotoflex. I don't see how you can change the pinion angle on the D2 to make a simple 2 U-joint shaft work. The TC output and pinion angles need to be almost the same, and they're not.

[revor]

UJ's travel in a elliptical rotation when they are not running straight. In a single cardon type shaft (only two UJ's) the angles between the two joints must remain within 5 degrees, otherwise the ellipse at the front joint is different enough from the ellipse at the rear joint to cause vibes.
When you lift a truck say a D2, the pinion shaft (at the diff) points up more towards the front UJ at the t case, the angle of the T Case shaft remains the same, the difference between the two shafts is now more than 5 degrees and you will get vibes and shortened UJ life. To fix this you would put a Double cardon shaft in place with the CV joint at the T Case. The CV (or double cardon) joint at the front of the driveshaft cancels the Eliptical rotation within the joint (so to speak) and since the pinion shaft is pointing at the T Case joint the rear UJ is now running straight so no vibes.
In the case of lifting a D1 or a Defender the trailing arms should be made longer so the pinion can be turned down and keep the joints within the five degrees rule.

[Viggen]

Yeah, I thought that the pinion angle was adjusted by arms in the rear. I have 4" of lift and have a GBR double in front and a single in the back with Rovertracks trailing arms and havent experienced any vibrations. Thats why I was asking why the vibration existed. I assume he has switched out the trailing arms to adjust the angles. Could the vibration have been caused by his running a lift, possibly stock arms (I havent checked) AND the rotoflex in the rear? I cant imagine that rubber piece was designed for higher angles.

[R_Lefebvre]

UJ's travel in a elliptical rotation when they are not running straight. In a single cardon type shaft (only two UJ's) the angles between the two joints must remain within 5 degrees, otherwise the ellipse at the front joint is different enough from the ellipse at the rear joint to cause vibes.
When you lift a truck say a D2, the pinion shaft (at the diff) points up more towards the front UJ at the t case, the angle of the T Case shaft remains the same, the difference between the two shafts is now more than 5 degrees and you will get vibes and shortened UJ life. To fix this you would put a Double cardon shaft in place with the CV joint at the T Case. The CV (or double cardon) joint at the front of the driveshaft cancels the Eliptical rotation within the joint (so to speak) and since the pinion shaft is pointing at the T Case joint the rear UJ is now running straight so no vibes.
In the case of lifting a D1 or a Defender the trailing arms should be made longer so the pinion can be turned down and keep the joints within the five degrees rule.

Yes, sounds right.

With a single double cardon at one end of the shaft, the joint with a single u-joint should be straight through. That's how they set up the front of the D2. The pinion joint is straight through, the pinion shaft is pointed pretty much straight at the transfer case. All the angle is made up at the DC joint at the TC case end. In the rear, the TC joint is a single UJ, which takes the angle, and the rotoflex is straight through. I imagine the rotoflex takes up the vibration coming out of the single UJ. If you get rid of the rotoflex and replace it with a single UJ, you need to change the angle of the pinion to be parallel to the TC, that way both single UJ's cancel out eachother's vibes. I don't see how you can adjust the pinion angle on a D2. An alternative would be to leave the pinion angle as it is, put a DC at the TC end, and a single UJ at the rear with no angle, just as the rotoflex was.

Courtesy of Tom Wood's:

http://www.4xshaft.com/images/cv_angle.gif

http://www.4xshaft.com/images/2joint_angle.gif

http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html

[Scott Brady]

I have Keith's lower control arms which allow some fine adjustment and I also have the Inland Rovers adjustable upper linkage mount. Between the two, I have all the range necessary to adjust for vibration. I am going to work with both shafts and see which one does the better job. The CV will give better results through the suspension range (running lightly loaded or heavy) and also rotates the pinion and u-joint a little further away from trail hazards.

The front is nearly vibration-free, but the rear (with rotoflex) had some heavy vibes above 60mph or so.

This will get it dialed in, I am sure.

[Viggen]

I have Keith's lower control arms which allow some fine adjustment and I also have the Inland Rovers adjustable upper linkage mount. Between the two, I have all the range necessary to adjust for vibration. I am going to work with both shafts and see which one does the better job. The CV will give better results through the suspension range (running lightly loaded or heavy) and also rotates the pinion and u-joint a little further away from trail hazards.

The front is nearly vibration-free, but the rear had some heavy vibes above 60mph or so.

This will get it dialed in, I am sure.

Do you think you wouldnt have any vibrations if you had gone with parts that were set up for your lift? Like rear arms set for 3"+ lift and the stock upper arm?

[tdesanto]

...I don't see how you can change the pinion angle on the D2 to make a simple 2 U-joint shaft work...


...I don't see how you can adjust the pinion angle on a D2...

Isn't this thread about Scott's D1?

[Scott Brady]

Do you think you wouldnt have any vibrations if you had gone with parts that were set up for your lift? Like rear arms set for 3"+ lift and the stock upper arm?

The vibrations are as a result of the rotoflex IMO. I only have about 60mm of lift in the rear when lightly loaded, but that put the rotoflex at enough of an angle that the vibrations started.

I do have rear arms from Keith. The upper arm is stock, but attaches to the adjustable mount on top of the axle. Between the two, I have full adjustment of the pinion angle to help work out the vibrations.

[R_Lefebvre]

Isn't this thread about Scott's D1?

Sure, but we're having a broader driveshaft vibe discussion, and I'm only using the D2 to show an example, as it's what I know.

Sounds like the D1 was set up similar to the D2 except the D2 had a DC up front. Scott had to buy adjustable arms to allow pinion adjustment.

[Viggen]

The vibrations are as a result of the rotoflex IMO. I only have about 60mm of lift in the rear when lightly loaded, but that put the rotoflex at enough of an angle that the vibrations started.

I do have rear arms from Keith. The upper arm is stock, but attaches to the adjustable mount on top of the axle. Between the two, I have full adjustment of the pinion angle to help work out the vibrations.

So, heres my question and its coming from the point of view of having a good amount of lift with off the shelf trailing arms and stock upper a arm: Was your going for adjustable arms and upper ball joint exacerbating the problem? It seems like if you just went with off the shelf arms for your lift and a proper rear shaft, there wouldve been no vibration issues as the math wouldve already been done.

[Scott Brady]

The truck had rear driveshaft vibrations with the stock arms. That is why I went with the pinion angle adjuster. I would have gone with Keith's arms regardless, as their primary function is strength and clearance, and they only have a small range of pinion adjustment.

Your assumptions might well be valid with a vehicle without a rotoflex, I honestly don't know.

[Viggen]

Thats why I was asking. You went beyond what other people usually do when it comes to the rear suspension. A set of RTE or Rovertracks arms for you size lift is usually all that is required. I was just wondering if jumping to an adjustable upper and adjustable arms to make up for the increased angles on the rotoflex created an issue.

Either way, I think that the new shaft with a real joint will probably fix it. Truck does look good though.

[JSQ]

Rotoflex.


http://www.expeditionexchange.com/rubicon/rubicon001%20290.jpg

No issues there...

[muskyman]

There are a number of ways to set up a D1 rear end correctly.

As Keith mentioned you can drop the pinion and run a 2 joint shaft. This is often accomplished by using longer trailing arms or aftermarket ones that can be shimed or adjusted for length to fine tune the pinion angle.

Another option is to use a A arm adapter to lengthen the upper A arm as well as after market rear trailing arms. This brings the pinion up (out of the rocks) and sets the truck up for a DC rear shaft.

Both methods work, the key is not taking short cuts and hoping you dont have vibes. Measure the angles and set the geometry where is needs to be for the specific shaft you want to run and the system will run vibe free.

[R_Lefebvre]

Rotoflex.


http://www.expeditionexchange.com/rubicon/rubicon001%20290.jpg

No issues there...

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33886&stc=1&d=1256260416

[Antichrist]

LMAO, that was the very first thought that crossed my mind.
Two meaningless photos.

Checking to see if I can edit this post

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm glad you got my point Tom. The evidentiary standard for tech here should be higher than simply posting a photo with little comment and even less context.

[muskyman]

I'm glad you got my point Tom. The evidentiary standard for tech here should be higher than simply posting a photo with little comment and even less context.

I think you are missing Jacks point.

Roto-flex shred on the trail.

this is much more common on slick rock or other high traction surfaces then it is on wet dirt or muddy trails as you see.

because Scott's truck will be used on a number of different types of terrain I would have to agree with Jacks contention that the roto is a bad choice.

[EricG]

Any pictures of the seat covers?

Thanks

[JSQ]

Yeah, you're right Rob. Your internet powers of deduction are effing staggering. Except that you forgot that crucial factor in your equation that helps you solve these problems: Experience.
Being that you have virtually none and a small handful of us here are actually fourwheelers, we've happened to see some stuff you haven't. As a matter of fact, we've seen a lot of stuff. Some of it over and over again. But more importantly our experience is varied and evolving. Some people like Antichrist have fourhweeled for a while but they just do the same stuff repeatedly ad nauseum and they cling desperately to the same conclusions. The rest of us will actually adapt and learn.

That's why contemporary wisdom tells us that a U-joint MIGHT break and a rotoflex WILL shred. Early on a lot of us liked the rotoflex. We argued theoretically about its advantages, particularly for the Disco2.
...But then we experienced reality it in the field and we evolved. We saw that the rotoflex was a giant spinning donut hanging down below the pinion at a low point of contact and every rock, log and ledge imaginable was going to grind it.

Your little Bridges of Madison County jaunts and your out-of-context web wisdom just aren't going to cut it on the trail. It's a disservice to anyone who might actually get out into the good stuff.

If you want to hold a "higher standard for tech" then base it on credibility and understanding, not out-of-context BS.

[DNTL740]

So Scott, how did it go with the dirveshafts? Just wanted to see if you had made any headway on the vibrations?

[huntsonora]

I am just now buttoning up a few switchgear items and waiting for the rear Escape Gear seat covers, but the truck is essentially done- I am pleased, and ready to put it to use. I am thinking a trip into Northern Sonora for spring.


I would not spend a whole lot of time in the north part of the state. I have drawn my imaginary line at about Benjamin Hill. I will not lease a ranch north of there and that sucks because some of my best ranches were just north of there, I just let em go

[jrose609]

]

I am just now buttoning up a few switchgear items and waiting for the rear Escape Gear seat covers, but the truck is essentially done- I am pleased, and ready to put it to use. I am thinking a trip into Northern Sonora for spring.



Speaking of the seat covers, can you give a little more info? Where did you get them? Canvas? How do they fit? etc?

want to sell your old seat covers ????:)

[dieselandmud]

http://www.equipt1.com/companies/escape-gear/

I hope Equipt will bring some demo seat covers to the Land Rover National Rally.

[Scott Brady]

I would not spend a whole lot of time in the north part of the state.

The Pinacate and Altar are beautiful, and my intended destination in Sonora.

[Scott Brady]

Speaking of the seat covers, can you give a little more info? Where did you get them? Canvas? How do they fit? etc?

want to sell your old seat covers ????:)

My old seat covers are for sale. They are nearly perfect.

The reason for the upgrade is the thicker material the Escape Gear covers are made from and the better color for my interior.

PM me if you are interested in the Sand Storm covers.


As an FYI, my Disco will almost certainly be at the National Rally in Moab with the new seat covers.

[Scott Brady]

So Scott, how did it go with the dirveshafts? Just wanted to see if you had made any headway on the vibrations?

I installed the shaft, took a quick test drive and some more adjustment is necessary. Then I left for the Overland Rally, and have not had a chance to make another correction. I will report back later this week.

[oryxexpeditions]

My old seat covers are for sale. They are nearly perfect.

The reason for the upgrade is the thicker material the Escape Gear covers are made from and the better color for my interior.

PM me if you are interested in the Sand Storm covers.


As an FYI, my Disco will almost certainly be at the National Rally in Moab with the new seat covers.


Those Escape Gear one's look nearly identical to my Melvill and Moon's, also from South Africa.

[jrose609]

My old seat covers are for sale. They are nearly perfect.

The reason for the upgrade is the thicker material the Escape Gear covers are made from and the better color for my interior.

PM me if you are interested in the Sand Storm covers.


As an FYI, my Disco will almost certainly be at the National Rally in Moab with the new seat covers.
PM sent

[Scott Brady]

Just had a wonderful drive in the Discovery from Prescott to Durango. The 3.90 gears were the right choice for the tire size I am running. 5th gear is quite usable now and the motor isn't turning too hard at 80 for the interstate.

I am still getting a little bit of driveline vibration from the rear, but only at certain speeds.

I also finished up several wiring projects, and everything is working perfectly. I am particularly impressed by the low voltage disconnect.

I will try to post some pictures up in the next few days.

[ssssnake529]

Could you possibly post a summary page of all that you did?

I have a 96 Disco that I'm in the midst of upgrading, so your experience is very interesting to me. It would be nice to see a full list of all the modifications/upgrades all on one page.

[Mike_rupp]

The learning process involves more than just reading the Cliff Notes. If you read the thread, you will be able to learn why some of the decisions were made and potential disagreements with those decisions and maybe then you could make your own informed decisions.

[Scott Brady]

Mike has a good point.

I would likely do a few things different, principally some unnecessary complexity that I added to the suspension. The same result can be accomplished with much less money (i.e. swivel ball).

I would also have specified the rear cargo box differently. It needs taller bottom drawers and a shorter top drawer. The overall height of the drawer system should have been about 1" lower, which would allow easier access to 1510 Pelicans strapped to the top. It works, but I think others might benefit from the slight adjustments.

One of the recent modifications I am quite please with is the OME Sport shocks. A nice change.

[ssssnake529]

The learning process involves more than just reading the Cliff Notes. If you read the thread, you will be able to learn why some of the decisions were made and potential disagreements with those decisions and maybe then you could make your own informed decisions.


I read the thread (yes, all of it.) I have also followed the build in Overland Journal.

It would still be nice to have a summary, particularly because it's not clear if the thread contains information on all of the mods or not.

[1leglance]

Mike has a good point.

I would likely do a few things different, principally some unnecessary complexity that I added to the suspension. The same result can be accomplished with much less money (i.e. swivel ball).

I would also have specified the rear cargo box differently. It needs taller bottom drawers and a shorter top drawer. The overall height of the drawer system should have been about 1" lower, which would allow easier access to 1510 Pelicans strapped to the top. It works, but I think others might benefit from the slight adjustments.

One of the recent modifications I am quite please with is the OME Sport shocks. A nice change.

I think this sort of summary or looking back is what is most often missing in build threads...
There is more value to me hearing what a person thinks after they are using the setup than when they are planning.
1" doesn't sound like much but it sounds like a worthly change for anyone else.

Thanks for this Scott and looking forward to hearing more thoughts over time

[jrose609]

Scott, check email. Did you get the paypal?

[Scott Brady]

Scott, check email. Did you get the paypal?

Yes, and Jeremy will be shipping them out today. He was Elk hunting last week :D

[Equipt]

http://www.equipt1.com/companies/escape-gear/

I hope Equipt will bring some demo seat covers to the Land Rover National Rally.

Yep, sure will. We will have a 110 on display with a full set of grey covers in it. Scott's D1 will be there too, to show the light khaki. I will bring a few sets down to the vendor night.

Thanks,

[Scott Brady]

I read the thread (yes, all of it.) I have also followed the build in Overland Journal.

It would still be nice to have a summary, particularly because it's not clear if the thread contains information on all of the mods or not.

I will try to pull something together. Thanks for the interest.

[jrose609]

Yes, and Jeremy will be shipping them out today. He was Elk hunting last week :D

Sweet! Thanks

[oryxexpeditions]

Mike has a good point.

I would likely do a few things different, principally some unnecessary complexity that I added to the suspension. The same result can be accomplished with much less money (i.e. swivel ball).

I would also have specified the rear cargo box differently. It needs taller bottom drawers and a shorter top drawer. The overall height of the drawer system should have been about 1" lower, which would allow easier access to 1510 Pelicans strapped to the top. It works, but I think others might benefit from the slight adjustments.

One of the recent modifications I am quite please with is the OME Sport shocks. A nice change.

I had one question/suggestion that came to mind. Since you are running 245/75R16 tires, couldn't you just go with stock springs with isolators top and bottom for a little lift? I am running the same tires and set-up on my Discovery and it works fine. No rubbing under full flex. The advantage I see to this is that it does not effect the steering or drive shafts and keeps the vehicle COG lower. I'm assuming you don't really have rock crawling in mind for this truck. If you need more load carrying capacity, you could do the same thing by just using the factory option extra-heavy duty springs front and rear. Same lift as the isolators (approx 1 inch) and a couple hundred extra pounds of load rating. Just a thought for a expedition oriented vehicle. I have not found this set-up lacking off-road yet.

David