Overland Journal: Discovery I, 5-speed

[Scott Brady]

A few action shots. Fun to just drive it now. Off to Flat Iron Mesa tomorrow.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/trail_testing/Disco_Moab_1.jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/trail_testing/Disco_Moab_2.jpg

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/trail_testing/Disco_Moab_3.jpg

[Scott Brady]

A few more shots from testing in Moab. Overall, the truck is driving well, and has been a joy to cruise in on this trip. I have identified a few areas for improvement.

1. The rear suspension needs about 1" additional height, as once it gets loaded down, it sits barely at level. I like the spring rate with the load, so either longer springs or possibly a spacer. Any suggestions?

2. I need to find a way to carry a little more fuel. Something in the 4-5 gallon range. These darn diesel defenders I am traveling with have considerably longer range than I do.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48264&d=1287947589

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48265&d=1287947589

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48266&d=1287947589

I still need to strengthen the ARB front bumper. Seeing the other Disco bumpers at the rally showed the limits of the wing strength (as was mentioned earlier in this thread).

[Monkeyboy]

1 - It really sucks the fuel off-road doesn't it Scott! You've had a peek at Graham's extra fuel tank, right?

That seems the best idea to me.

2 - Which rear springs did you end up with? The OME HDs work for me....though remember that the Camel vehicles ran dual rear spring (one inside the other) setups....or the old standby...airbags inside the springs and vary the pressure per the load.

3 - ??? got me there. I've still got the ancient SG bumpers f/r.

Glad you guys had good weather. It looked cloudy flying over :(

[upcruiser]

If you have suitable spring compression left, why not go with a spacer? You might have a bit of rake unloaded but the only way to avoid that would be airbags. Rob at MIT in Evergreen, CO makes some nice billet 1" spacers for D1's, not to mention he is a great guy too. I am thinking of getting a set for my D1.

http://www.mitautomotive.com/

[Scott Brady]

I am certainly open to the spacer idea, but would like some feedback from those who have used them. Seems robust enough.

I have 762s in the rear.

[Wander]

Is the problem clearence when its laden or that the rear sags when laden? If it's the latter than air bags will allow you to keep the ride height but not require a kidney belt when it's not loaded down. If it's clearence that is the problem maybe a taller wheel/tire combo-like some Wolf's. It looks like you could fit some more tire under it.

As for extra fuel, any room for something like a series tank under there? If that's too tall maybe you could have one cut down?

[Scott Brady]

With a full load, the spring compression is only about 1" from daily loads. Even with general daily loads, the rear is barely level with the front. It is really a spring length issue, not a rate issue IMO. Loaded, the ride is spot on, especially with the new OME Sports.

I can see the advantage of airbags, but would prefer avoiding the complexity if possible.

[Mike_rupp]

Scott, I use 1.5" spacers with the 762s. I also use the 2" lowered shock mounts to compensate for the taller setup. It is a nice combination. It isn't horrible unloaded, and it's fine when loaded. I've thought about 763s and readjusting the spacer height, but I've other projects to finish first.

[benlittle]

I am certainly open to the spacer idea, but would like some feedback from those who have used them. Seems robust enough.

I have 762s in the rear.

I currently run 3in HD RTE springs with the rubber iso's top and bottom (rear)with a 1/2in aluminum spacer EDIT: ALso retained top/bottom EE retainers, stock shock mount with longer OME's. Works very well.

[JSQ]

OME 763s and 764s. Disco2 rubber shock tower isolators in front on top, LR spring isolator on the bottom. LR spring isolators top and bottom in the rear with a 1" spacer and retainers top and bottom. Lowered shock mounts or a long shock in the rear.

This set-up breaks in really nicely and has tons of load capacity. It also runs well without sway bars.
Expect about 3"+ of lift front and rear.

It's nothing radical or cutting edge, but it is trail proven.

[muskyman]

OME 763s and 764s. Disco2 rubber shock tower isolators in front on top, LR spring isolator on the bottom. LR spring isolators top and bottom in the rear with a 1" spacer and retainers top and bottom. Lowered shock mounts or a long shock in the rear.

This set-up breaks in really nicely and has tons of load capacity. It also runs well without sway bars.
Expect about 3"+ of lift front and rear.

It's nothing radical or cutting edge, but it is trail proven.

I ran this set up for a long time before going to what I run now, what a great set up!

If I started over on a D1 I would go back to this set up.

[007]

Are those last few shots on a trail called behind the rocks?

[jrose609]

2. I need to find a way to carry a little more fuel. Something in the 4-5 gallon range. These darn diesel defenders I am traveling with have considerably longer range than I do.



300 Tdi.............Problem solved. Then you don't have to worry about carrying more fuel :)

[Scott Brady]

Are those last few shots on a trail called behind the rocks?

Flat Iron Mesa

[Scott Brady]

I am going to try some 1" spacers to start.

One of the best modifications I performed to the suspension was the spring retainers from EE. With the sport shocks and the sway bars removed, the suspension is nicely balanced and stable on the trail, with minimal pitch or sway, yet it still handles nicely at speed.

[Wander]

Can you post some more interior pictures? I'm looking into getting a 94 DI and need some inspiration.

[Fuzzy]

WOW! it has taken weeks to read through this.

AMAZING project. I would also appreciate a summery, I have a 96 SE7 that is my first Rover. It may not get a lot of action in the west but I'd sure like to be ready for it when the opportunity comes.

? Why do a suspension lift? with all the pinion angle (etc) hassles wouldn't a body lift serve as well if not better?

[Mike_rupp]

with all the pinion angle (etc) hassles wouldn't a body lift serve as well if not better?

You should install a body lift and report back with your opinion.

[Antichrist]

I've had a 2" body lift on my 95 Disco (with an OME suspension) for about 6 years or so. I haven't figured out why some people don't like them.

[AxeAngel]

Body lift in addition to suspension lift is different than body lift instead of suspension lift.

[Mike_rupp]

I've had a 2" body lift on my 95 Disco (with an OME suspension) for about 6 years or so. I haven't figured out why some people don't like them.

The reason that most people don't like them is that no modification is more of a hack job than a body lift.

Why does one lift a vehicle? The primary reason is to allow for larger tires to be mounted. At the same time, most people, especially overlanding types, are also raising the spring rates to compensate for higher loads.

The only thing a body lift does is to lift the body higher to accommodate taller tires. It doesn't address spring rates, and it also doesn't raise the clearance of the vehicle, which is exactly what a suspension lift does.

For the fitment of 32" tires on a D1, all that is needed is a standard OME lift. In all but a few cases, no driveline issues will arise from installing a 1.5" - 2" lift. Hmm, I wonder why the OME lift height ended up that way?

[Antichrist]

My 7.50x16's rubbed with OME springs until I added an RTE 2" body lift. I didn't want to go any higher on the suspension and have to possibly have to spend more to deal with driveline/steering issues.
I haven't had any issues with it whatsoever so I'm not sure why it's a hack job.

[Viggen]

The reason that most people don't like them is that no modification is more of a hack job than a body lift.

Why does one lift a vehicle? The primary reason is to allow for larger tires to be mounted. At the same time, most people, especially overlanding types, are also raising the spring rates to compensate for higher loads.

The only thing a body lift does is to lift the body higher to accommodate taller tires. It doesn't address spring rates, and it also doesn't raise the clearance of the vehicle, which is exactly what a suspension lift does.

For the fitment of 32" tires on a D1, all that is needed is a standard OME lift. In all but a few cases, no driveline issues will arise from installing a 1.5" - 2" lift. Hmm, I wonder why the OME lift height ended up that way?

How is a body lift a hack job? A suspension lift adds clearance for tires and so does the body lift. Youre wrong about clearance. Have 10" under your diff stock? That 10" is going to be the same whether you have 6" of suspension or 6" of body lift. Clearance under the diff is the most important and that only comes from taller tires and taller tires can come from body or suspension.

[Mike_rupp]

How is a body lift a hack job? A suspension lift adds clearance for tires and so does the body lift. Youre wrong about clearance. Have 10" under your diff stock? That 10" is going to be the same whether you have 6" of suspension or 6" of body lift. Clearance under the diff is the most important and that only comes from taller tires and taller tires can come from body or suspension.

Body lifts remind me of Billybob's pickup truck with a 12" Skyjacker lift.

While clearance under the diff is the most important, clearance under the rest of the low hanging bits are nearly as important. Have you ever wheeled out west? You should see my frame ears for the rear links. Will a body lift raise those?

Tom, it seems odd to me that your 7.5s would rub with an OME lift. My 235s are wider and they never rubbed on anything other than the sheetmetal at the bottom of the rear wheelwells. Did you use medium duty springs?

[oryxexpeditions]

How is a body lift a hack job? A suspension lift adds clearance for tires and so does the body lift. Youre wrong about clearance. Have 10" under your diff stock? That 10" is going to be the same whether you have 6" of suspension or 6" of body lift. Clearance under the diff is the most important and that only comes from taller tires and taller tires can come from body or suspension.

What about clearance for the rest of the chassis? This is as important as diff clearance in many cases, such as breakover, approach and departure angles. A spring lift and larger tires will give you all of those, a body lift won't.

[Antichrist]

Did you use medium duty springs?I'd have to dig out the receipt, it's been 8 years and I don't remember. Actually I'm probably due for new springs.

[JSQ]

Another thing that I don't like about body lifts is that you're usually replacing a hard rubber body mount with a solid aluminum one and there is a corresponding increase in vibe.

[oryxexpeditions]

Another thing that I don't like about body lifts is that you're usually replacing a hard rubber body mount with a solid aluminum one and the there is a corresponding increase in vibe.

Not only that but I think in many cases you are also weakening the connection between body and chassis.

[Antichrist]

Another thing that I don't like about body lifts is that you're usually replacing a hard rubber body mount with a solid aluminum one Interesting.
IMO that would be a pretty dumb thing to do.

[rover4x4]

Get ya some Redline MTL for that R380

[Paladin]

Interesting.
IMO that would be a pretty dumb thing to do.

What are your lift pucks constructed of? How did you move the bumpers up to match the body again?

[AxeAngel]

What are your lift pucks constructed of? How did you move the bumpers up to match the body again?

You could just redrill the holes on the bumper where it mates to the frame depending on the body lift.

Im guessing the lift pucks are similar to what they make poly bushings from.

-Sam

[Big D]

I hate to say but a small body lift with a small spring lift is the ultimate way to go. Many, many reasons!

I also hate to say it or start a war but frequently individuals tend to comment on stuff they know nothing about or are just going with what someone told them. Very rarely have they done it themselves.

A body lift when mild in height increases the clearance so that you can clear those bigger tires without going to a huge lift and completely altering the drivetrain and suspension geometry.

Manyfacturers spend hundreds of millions of dollars on research. So sometimes it does not appeal to everyone but there is usually a good reason why something was done the way it was.

So why alter something completely out of spec.....like a huge spring lift?

[Mike_rupp]

Please.

I don't need to jump out of an airplane without a chute before calling it a bad idea.

What aftermarket company do you think has spent more money on R&D: OME or some random company that makes body lifts?

First off, the last time I checked this is an expedition / overlanding site. That being said, most people with half a brain realize that having 32" tires is about all you need to get the job done. Another thing to consider is that anybody going out for more than a day trip is going to load the truck up. Now, what is the best way to achieve both of those requirements? An Ome lift does both. You get additional load carrying capacity as well as providing clearance to fit 32" tires. You get the added benefit of raising the vehicle 1.5".

So please stop with the generalities and let's get specific. What combo of spring lift and body lift would you recommend for an overlanding LR?

[Nonimouse]

Just an aside about Old Man Emu

ARB the comapny that owns the OME brand put a huge amount of testing into matching products - ie springs to shocks. They test in real world conditions on real world vehicles - unlike 95% of the market; who will spend time testing individual products but not matching them.

The three products that go into a shock/spring set up are made by three individual Aussie companies who are the best at what they do

The only thing wrong with OME is the price

As for Mike's post. I use Factory springs if possible. No one does a range like Land Rover to mix and match to. I then use either OME or Terrafirma shocks to match.

I go for the absolute minimum of lift to clear the tyres, just as I look to keep nothing on the roof if I can help it. I stay away from body lifts as I don't see the need. Standard tyres on a Disco will get you along the Road of Bones or down through Africa. You can do the Simpson of the Gibson on 235/75x16's
Same goes for a 110 - 235/85x16's do the job, the extra 8mm under a diff from a 255 is neither here nor there. Driver skill, vehicle sympathy, recovery skills, route reading that's what you need

I'm off back to my slit trench to put on my tin hat and body armour

[oryxexpeditions]

Just an aside about Old Man Emu

ARB the comapny that owns the OME brand put a huge amount of testing into matching products - ie springs to shocks. They test in real world conditions on real world vehicles - unlike 95% of the market; who will spend time testing individual products but not matching them.

The three products that go into a shock/spring set up are made by three individual Aussie companies who are the best at what they do

The only thing wrong with OME is the price

As for Mike's post. I use Factory springs if possible. No one does a range like Land Rover to mix and match to. I then use either OME or Terrafirma shocks to match.

I go for the absolute minimum of lift to clear the tyres, just as I look to keep nothing on the roof if I can help it. I stay away from body lifts as I don't see the need. Standard tyres on a Disco will get you along the Road of Bones or down through Africa. You can do the Simpson of the Gibson on 235/75x16's
Same goes for a 110 - 235/85x16's do the job, the extra 8mm under a diff from a 255 is neither here nor there. Driver skill, vehicle sympathy, recovery skills, route reading that's what you need

I'm off back to my slit trench to put on my tin hat and body armour

Yes. This all comes back to the point that LR's are extremely well set-up vehicles from the factory. They just need a few weaknesses addressed, such as diff strength. You can fit up to 245/75R16 on a Disco using factory optional springs and isolators. They will also give you increased load capacity and most important, retain drivability in real world use. Again, to use the Camel Trophy example, stock LR's can go through pretty much anything with the proper skill and technique, which is the fun of off-roading, right? It's not all about dominating the terrain with massive lift/tires, and all the downsides those bring with them. BTW. That's one of the great things about Scott's build, in my opinion. He's keeping to mild mods which let the natural LR capability and style shine through.

[Nonimouse]

Always worried about the need to "dominate the terrain"; I feel there may be issues that need addressing. As Jung said "the need to dominate is really a substitute for love"; Freud also says "a continual and never decreasing need to dominate often exposes a misplacement of sexual congress" I don't really grasp the last bit and I tent to think that Freud had serious repression issues and a tendancy to talk utter bull****.

Why the favouring of the 245/75 rather than the 215/85?

Oh and oryxexpeditions, I think you put that better than I did so thank you:sombrero:

[Antichrist]

What are your lift pucks constructed of? How did you move the bumpers up to match the body again?Aluminum.
I built my own front bumper and someday will get around to making a rear one, so that wasn't an issue.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying a body lift is for everyone, just that I looked at my needs and the additional 2" gave me some room to do things I wanted to do on my '95 Disco. The tire rubbing wasn't the primary reason I did it as it was only slight at extreme angles so I could have lived with it.

Anyway, my point wasn't that everyone should do it, or that it's a good substitute for a suspension lift. Just that with my OME springs it works for me, I haven't had any issues in 150,000 miles with it and i don't regret doing it.

[Paladin]

You could just redrill the holes on the bumper where it mates to the frame depending on the body lift.

Im guessing the lift pucks are similar to what they make poly bushings from.

-Sam

On a rear bumper, that might be practical. On the front of a D2, probably a D1 as well, it's not going to be so easy because of the way the bumper mounts. You'd likely have to do a bit of fab work. Not a huge deal. But not something you'll pull off with just a drill and a 1/2" bit.


Aluminum.


So do you have the original rubber pucks stacked on top of the aluminum pucks, or there is only the aluminum now? Based on your previous statement, I'm guessing the former.

I wonder: So with nothing more than a 1.5-2" OME lift and 32" tires, then factor in 1/2" - 1" of suspension compression due to a heavy load... do the tires still clear? Or are we now needing a 3" lift to clear after the load compresses it to 2"? Then we're back to driveline problems when unladen.

It might seem there's some wisdom to a mild body lift on top of an OME suspension...

Heck, with an OEM lift on a D2, 245/75 tires and no swaybars I get some tire rub when fully flexed. Not really enough to be concerning, but if I went with 32's, it would be.

[Antichrist]

So do you have the original rubber pucks stacked on top of the aluminum pucksYes.

[TexasTJ]

Is this the place for this? Start your own body lift vs Coil lift Thread!

Get off Scotts Discovery Build with this dead horse!

[Mike_rupp]

Is this the place for this? Start your own body lift vs Coil lift Thread!

Get off Scotts Discovery Build with this dead horse!

Unless Scott requests otherwise, yes, this is the place for this. Why is it that on nearly every thread when there is some sort of debate on a topic, all sorts of people who are absolutely terrified of even the smallest conflict come out of the woodwork in an attempt to be a moderater and in the process clutter the thread?

[oryxexpeditions]

Why the favouring of the 245/75 rather than the 215/85?


No favoring really. 215/85 are fine too, as a skinny versus the wider 245. Skinnies make a lot of sense for many conditions.

[Mike_rupp]

I wonder: So with nothing more than a 1.5-2" OME lift and 32" tires, then factor in 1/2" - 1" of suspension compression due to a heavy load... do the tires still clear? Or are we now needing a 3" lift to clear after the load compresses it to 2"? Then we're back to driveline problems when unladen.

It might seem there's some wisdom to a mild body lift on top of an OME suspension...

Heck, with an OEM lift on a D2, 245/75 tires and no swaybars I get some tire rub when fully flexed. Not really enough to be concerning, but if I went with 32's, it would be.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder if anyone has actually offroaded their Land Rovers.

On a D1, if you run the standard HD lift (751 front / 762 rear) and 235/85s you should be able to load it up fairly heavily and still be able to clear the tires even with no sway bars. Based on some of the pics of various rigs where the folks seem to bring everything along including the kitchen sink, you might need to use the 763 XHD rear springs. Granted, there will be situations like Tom's truck where he felt like he needed a body lift as well as a suspension lift, but that is the exception rather than the rule. Who knows? Maybe he installed lighter spring rate springs and gets more flex than a standard HD lift. That could have probably been addressed with taller bump stops, rather than a body lift, though.

With a 1.5" - 2" lift on a D1, the only usual driveline issue is swapping out the rotoflex driveshaft with a conventional u-joint driveshaft.

D2s are a different animal. They have longer radius arms and can go slightly higher without driveline issues. I can't remember the springs, but I installed an OME lift on a friend's D2 that resulted in about 2.5" of lift and there were no driveline issues even with the rotoflex in the rear. This lift can accommodate 265/75s easily.

[Nonimouse]

No favoring really. 215/85 are fine too, as a skinny versus the wider 245. Skinnies make a lot of sense for many conditions.

Just wondered, always liked 215's when I was running RRC's. Especially the old Hankook RT01 MT - now that was a tyre

[Wander]

Sorry for the repeat if this question has been answered-I'm new to the coil springs as I've got a IIa (series people argue over parabolics vs standard, but mostly we just pour another stout and enjoy the campfire)

On the CT DI's with the wolfs and XZL's what set up where they running?

[oryxexpeditions]

On the CT DI's with the wolfs and XZL's what set up where they running?

First, they weren't running Wolfs, they were running the standard solid steel wheels like Scott has, only the 5.5 inch wide versions. The tires were 7.00x16 (not the 7.5x16 as many say). So basically they were on 31's. The front springs were stock Disco diesel ones, on the rear they were running stock springs with some small coil helper springs inside the main coils, like on a 110. In fact, some have suggested that they were running the larger 110 main coils as well, but that would have meant changing the perches to the 110 ones. Don't know about this. As you can see from photos of them, there was no lift/very little from stock ride height. By way of comparison, I've attached a photo of my 96 D1 which has stock springs with LR isolators top and bottom on both ends, for a .75 inch lift. The tires are 245/75R16 like Scott's (31's). I have a camel cut as you can see. If I'm not loaded down too much, I can flex these tires all the way up without rubbing. I'm thinking about going to the LR factory extra heavy duty springs in the future for the same lift and more capacity.

[Wander]

That seems like a pretty good and easy set up. As we aren't running with CT loads (that doesn't sounds right..) I can see running a stiffer spring in the rear rather than running two springs-I'm guessing the two spring set up would be a bit punishing unladen.

[Viggen]

No favoring really. 215/85 are fine too, as a skinny versus the wider 245. Skinnies make a lot of sense for many conditions.

Nowhere around here, East Coast, would something that small and that skinny make any kind of sense. I hate it when everyone starts talking about what was run in the Camel Trophy as some sort of universal reference. They dealt with basically stock trucks to keep the competition even and made some modifications (tying racks into the cage) for seriously overloaded conditions. No way would I run anything like what they ran anywhere around here. A 30" tall, 8" wide skinny tire just barely worked for them in many of the events. I bet if you gave them a D1 with 255/85s and 3" of lift, many of the stages wouldve been much easier with less carnage. More tire and more articulation makes for more traction.

A body lift isnt a bad option and it isnt redneck and can be a good solution for some. Ill agree that they have a bad rep for being used on 1/2 ton Chevys and CJ/ YJ's where you see 3-4 inches of space between the body and the frame. They usually do that since their style of wheeling is mud bogging where articulation and load carrying matters not as they just need to clear 44"+ Swampers. Lets say you want to run a small lift with a lighter spring rate since no ones truck is always going to be loaded down 100% of the time. A 1" or 2" spring lift with a 1" body lift might be a good solution. You can clear larger tires for under diff clearance and run a lighter spring rate since HD coils ride like crap when unloaded. Then, that one or two times a month when you actually do go out, you can load it down and not worry so much about rubbing under load as that body lift serves as a buffer in a way.

I would rather have that setup than ride around on the bumpstops all day long. The higher you go, suspension wise, the higher your center of gravity goes, especially when loaded down. Use a body lift to achieve some extra clearance and you can keep your CoG down and keep a little bit of stability. As for your comments about frame ears, Im running a 3 link, 255/85s and 4" of lift and I still bang my frame at times. It happens and if it were that worrisome, I would create some sort of slider for the areas most likely to hit. And yes, I do wheel my D1. Most people here trail ride/ "overland" so a small medium spring rate lift and a small body lift would make for a good solution to clear bigger tires. Bigger tires would allow for more clearance under the diffs and I would, personally, rather have less breakover and depend on my sliders than to bounce my axles off of everything. I like to wheel my D1 so Ive gone mostly suspension but entertain a body lift to gain a little more room to stuff my tires into the wells.

[oryxexpeditions]

Nowhere around here, East Coast, would something that small and that skinny make any kind of sense. I hate it when everyone starts talking about what was run in the Camel Trophy as some sort of universal reference. They dealt with basically stock trucks to keep the competition even and made some modifications (tying racks into the cage) for seriously overloaded conditions. No way would I run anything like what they ran anywhere around here. A 30" tall, 8" wide skinny tire just barely worked for them in many of the events. I bet if you gave them a D1 with 255/85s and 3" of lift, many of the stages wouldve been much easier with less carnage. More tire and more articulation makes for more traction.

What kind of terrain are you talking about where skinnies don't work well? If it's mud you're talking about, they are much superior to wider tires because they cut down to the surface underneath much better. In sand, wider tires might have an advantage if it's really deep. On rocks, the larger contact patch of a wider tire is an advantage.

They didn't go with basically stock trucks to keep the competition even, they could do that by doing the same mods on all of them. They did it to showcase the stock LR's capability, and to make the events more of a challenge of driving skill and teamwork over mechanical advantage. That's why the Camel Trophy is a valid reference to make when talking about LR's.

BTW: 215/85 is the same height as a 245/75, which is closer to 31 inches, not 30. 255/85 also qualifies as a skinny.

[AxeAngel]

On a rear bumper, that might be practical. On the front of a D2, probably a D1 as well, it's not going to be so easy because of the way the bumper mounts. You'd likely have to do a bit of fab work. Not a huge deal. But not something you'll pull off with just a drill and a 1/2" bit.


The front bumper on my truck was a prototype for a bumper that went into production. The truck that it was fabbed on had a 1-1.5" body lift there are two sets of holes drilled into my bumper that accommodate either stock body lift or the additional body lift. I'm pretty sure that guy knew what he was doing.

-Sam

[Viggen]

What kind of terrain are you talking about where skinnies don't work well? If it's mud you're talking about, they are much superior to wider tires because they cut down to the surface underneath much better. In sand, wider tires might have an advantage if it's really deep. On rocks, the larger contact patch of a wider tire is an advantage.

They didn't go with basically stock trucks to keep the competition even, they could do that by doing the same mods on all of them. They did it to showcase the stock LR's capability, and to make the events more of a challenge of driving skill and teamwork over mechanical advantage. That's why the Camel Trophy is a valid reference to make when talking about LR's.

BTW: 215/85 is the same height as a 245/75, which is closer to 31 inches, not 30. 255/85 also qualifies as a skinny.

Ill take a tire with a little more width for floating on top of the mud than something that will cut to the bottom and get me stuck faster. Ever watch a mud bog? Youre talking about 14"+ wide tires. If skinny tires are so superior, theyd be running them. Just so you know, you mentioned only one place where you think a skinny tire would work but then proceeded to list off areas where it would not work well. East Coast = deep mud, rocks, roots, etc... Wider is better and the 10.5" of 255 is going to be better than the 8" of a 215 around here, just like I stated. Not to mention the extra height to get over many more things with less stress and skinny pedal. I think you are also missing that the 245 is a WIDER tire, by more than an inch, than a 215.

If it were a valid reference, we wouldnt be talking about anything as they ran no real lift of any sort, let alone half the crap we count as essential, but just ran armor, cage, load carrying and recovery equipment. Thats about it. We would all be running LR springs and small tires and bounce off of every trail obstacle along the way if we stuck with their recipe. We all know what these can do stock but we also know what they can do with a little bit of work, which is what this thread is about. Again, who cares what size tire they ran in the Camel Trophy.

[oryxexpeditions]

If it were a valid reference, we wouldnt be talking about anything as they ran no real lift of any sort, let alone half the crap we count as essential, but just ran armor, cage, load carrying and recovery equipment. Thats about it. We would all be running LR springs and small tires and bounce off of every trail obstacle along the way if we stuck with their recipe. We all know what these can do stock but we also know what they can do with a little bit of work, which is what this thread is about. Again, who cares what size tire they ran in the Camel Trophy.

No offense, Viggen. But have you ever driven a stock Disco off-road? Didn't you buy yours already built? Don't slam the skinny tires until you've tried some. They give you a lot more control in mud. My advice to everyone who is just getting a Rover is to spend some time driving it off road in stock trim. You can learn much more about driving finesse that way, and in all likelihood, you will find that it will go just about everywhere with nothing more than some good tires. This goes for other 4x4's as well. When I was at Moab once, I saw an old guy doing all the 4+ trails with a stock CJ running 32's. As far as what the Camel Trophy trucks carried, and how they were equipped, who needs anything else?

David

[ini88]

Viggen is right. East Coast conditions need a slightly wider tire. CT is a nice example of a expo truck but you have to consider that this is how the British do it. They wheel totally different then we do in the US. Have you ever seen how they set up their trucks over there? really different looking.

Available tire choices over there were different back when CT was going on. Just because they choose a 7x16 tire back then doesn't mean it was the best choice. Maybe they went for a real stiff side wall to help with the weight over a wider, softer tire for mud. Conditions with your truck and terrain ALWAYS change :)

[oryxexpeditions]

Viggen is right. East Coast conditions need a slightly wider tire. CT is a nice example of a expo truck but you have to consider that this is how the British do it. They wheel totally different then we do in the US. Have you ever seen how they set up their trucks over there? really different looking.

Available tire choices over there were different back when CT was going on. Just because they choose a 7x16 tire back then doesn't mean it was the best choice. Maybe they went for a real stiff side wall to help with the weight over a wider, softer tire for mud. Conditions with your truck and terrain ALWAYS change :)

So you're saying the British drive through mud differently than we do, or that the mud in one of the rainiest countries is different than our mud? Their mud requires skinny tires compared to ours? Also, they were running these tires up to the late 90's in the CT. There were no other tires to choose from in Britain at that time? All of them were small and skinny?

[AxeAngel]

I dont want to clutter Scott's thread with a skinny tire war.

Oryx : come to the east coast and wheel in the carolina mud. Ask any of the guys on the east coast what a good setup is and they will all (Jeep, LR, Toy, Scout, you name it) tell you, "wide tires and lots of skinny pedal". In Moab BFG KM2s A/Ts are favored right, lots of tread good grip due to the slickrock, no need for an M/T.


So you're saying the British drive through mud differently than we do, or that the mud in one of the rainiest countries is different than our mud?

Mud isnt just as simple as you seem to think, there are lots of different types. What we have out here is clay and yes it is different from british mud. Ive lived in several continents and can honestly say that east coast clay mud is one of the worst.

-Sam

[Viggen]

No offense, Viggen. But have you ever driven a stock Disco off-road? Didn't you buy yours already built? Don't slam the skinny tires until you've tried some. They give you a lot more control in mud. My advice to everyone who is just getting a Rover is to spend some time driving it off road in stock trim. You can learn much more about driving finesse that way, and in all likelihood, you will find that it will go just about everywhere with nothing more than some good tires. This goes for other 4x4's as well. When I was at Moab once, I saw an old guy doing all the 4+ trails with a stock CJ running 32's. As far as what the Camel Trophy trucks carried, and how they were equipped, who needs anything else?

David
Yes, I have wheeled a stock Disco and this past weekend saw a RRC with nothing more than oversized tires, probably 31x10.50s, do some amazing things. I think you are glancing over one KEY thing in my statements: East Coast. A skinny tire will not do any favors for you out here. Illinois is not the Mid Atlantic. We have cambers, slopes, slick rock, water everywhere, roots that just happen to be smooth and slick all the time, and mud that seems to just stick to everything and is regularly hub deep on a good day (bad day, much deeper). An 8" wide tire will do nothing for you. Sure, you could air down for a wider foot print but even at that stage, your airing down might equal my footprint aired up. Think outside the Camel Trophy and look where you live and make the decision. I think that the CT leads people to LRs but what they ran there is not the benchmark as you seem to espouse. Come out here to my area and bring your ~30.2" x 8" tires and we will see who loses traction and bangs off of everything and who easily crawls over the same obstacle. You might make it over many of the obstacles but I will bet you money that it will require a much more aggressive driving style leading to more abuse on the drivetrain than someone with larger tires that have the height and width to idle over. Look at the CT as an example. Do you think they wouldve had to barrel into every single obstacle leading to broken axles, steering, transmissions, and bashed panels if they had a little more altitude and rubber? Doubt it. Makes for great watching but a thoroughly beat down truck. So I bought my D1 with a lot of the things already on it? I fail to see the disadvantage there. In fact, I see a HUGE advantage there. I have saved myself huge amounts of money and time as there is NO way you can build a Disco like mine for the amount I was able to buy it for. Sorry, thats a fact. In fact, I would do it all over again. Ive saved myself thousands of dollars. While you slowly build up your truck, Ill be out hitting the trails and feeling it out. Ive only had to go through it and fix some eccentricities that all owners, whether stock or built, will deal with in time anyway. You can stick with your spring isolators and Ill stick with my 3 link.


Viggen is right. East Coast conditions need a slightly wider tire. CT is a nice example of a expo truck but you have to consider that this is how the British do it. They wheel totally different then we do in the US. Have you ever seen how they set up their trucks over there? really different looking.

Available tire choices over there were different back when CT was going on. Just because they choose a 7x16 tire back then doesn't mean it was the best choice. Maybe they went for a real stiff side wall to help with the weight over a wider, softer tire for mud. Conditions with your truck and terrain ALWAYS change :)

Read the above...

[oryxexpeditions]

I dont want to clutter Scott's thread with a skinny tire war.

Oryx : come to the east coast and wheel in the carolina mud. Ask any of the guys on the east coast what a good setup is and they will all (Jeep, LR, Toy, Scout, you name it) tell you, "wide tires and lots of skinny pedal". In Moab BFG KM2s A/Ts are favored right, lots of tread good grip due to the slickrock, no need for an M/T.



Mud isnt just as simple as you seem to think, there are lots of different types. What we have out here is clay and yes it is different from british mud. Ive lived in several continents and can honestly say that east coast clay mud is one of the worst.

-Sam

I understand the differences in mud, but at least running off road in Illinois/Indiana clay mud, I've found skinny tires to be better than the wide ones as well. In the East coast, I've only wheeled in Florida mud, in which the skinnies worked well also. Don't know if that's different from up North. I used to live on a long poorly maintained dirt road, which was always deeply rutted and treacherous during Spring and in thunderstorms. In my Tahoe on wide tires I was always on the edge of sliding off because the tires would float around (basically hydroplane so much). In my Toyota truck with skinnies I could drive through there at 50 with perfect stability. They would cut right through. Much better steering control and stability. Another advantage of the skinnies, besides mud, is rolling resistance. Much less than wide tires giving better mileage. They also look good on Rovers in my opinion. I'll take you guys' word for the East coast conditions though.

[oryxexpeditions]

So I bought my D1 with a lot of the things already on it? I fail to see the disadvantage there. In fact, I see a HUGE advantage there. I have saved myself huge amounts of money and time as there is NO way you can build a Disco like mine for the amount I was able to buy it for. Sorry, thats a fact. In fact, I would do it all over again. Ive saved myself thousands of dollars. While you slowly build up your truck, Ill be out hitting the trails and feeling it out. Ive only had to go through it and fix some eccentricities that all owners, whether stock or built, will deal with in time anyway. You can stick with your spring isolators and Ill stick with my 3 link.

Not questioning the economic advantages of buying one already built, just that it doesn't give you the experience of what a stock one will do off road. Nor the opportunity to learn technique as well as a stock vehicle does, because a stock vehicle requires more driving skill to get through the same places. Therefore it's a great teacher. My truck is pretty much built. When I break something, I fix it or upgrade it. If/when I don't have enough spring capacity or something, I'll upgrade it. When I go on trips, I pack like I'm going backpacking. Why do I need anything more in a vehicle than when I'm hiking for a weekend or a month? (It's very liberating. I highly recommend trying it out some time.) Might throw some different food in, that's all. I'll save my money for gas, which unfortunately is an expensive proposition with these beasts.

David

[Viggen]

Not questioning the economic advantages of buying one already built, just that it doesn't give you the experience of what a stock one will do off road. Nor the opportunity to learn technique as well as a stock vehicle does, because a stock vehicle requires more driving skill to get through the same places. Therefore it's a great teacher. My truck is pretty much built. When I break something, I fix it or upgrade it. If/when I don't have enough spring capacity or something, I'll upgrade it. When I go on trips, I pack like I'm going backpacking. Why do I need anything more in a vehicle than when I'm hiking for a weekend or a month? (It's very liberating. I highly recommend trying it out some time.) Might throw some different food in, that's all. I'll save my money for gas, which unfortunately is an expensive proposition with these beasts.

David

Thats great but do you actually WHEEL your truck or do you only camp? Therein lies the difference. I learned technique many years ago on past trucks and am now just scratching the surface of what my current set up can do. Your "built" truck takes you down fire roads and trails and into campsites. For what you do, spring isolators for .75" of lift is great. For me, 4" with bigger tires and more flex is great.

[SeaRubi]

East Coast terrain is a nice, large primer for what you would encounter in the Pacific Northwest. :ylsmoke: Imagine Colorado heights matched with East Coast terrain and you've got the PNW in a nutshell.

There are thousands of miles of logging roads and jeep trails cut into the Cascades after WWII. All of it goes from dusty to muddy to snowy and all of it contains big root ledges, rocks, and everything in between. I'd say half of it is all off-camber with life ending consequences for careless mistakes.

The oldest Jeep club in the country is the Yakima Ridgerunners, and all those old timers swear by the skinny tire and spirited driving. Nowadays, inside of the same club, everybody wants to prattle on about how much better their fancy high tech creations are over those old Willys Jeeps that carved the trails into the hills in the first place.

The difference that I came to accept wasn't a question regarding the efficacy of new vs. old technology, but rather making note of the sharp relief in character between old timers and young bucks like myself. Those fellas had been across both ponds and watched a great number of their countrymen die on the battlefield. Those same years of my life during their age were spent sucking down lattes in a nice office. For them, pushing a little jeep through the mountains for fun was a welcome reward for protecting their country. For me, it became an excuse to spend money.

In our age of Easy Button living we've been trained to only accept instant gratification and cannot be bothered with inconveniences like trudging through mud and snow in a pouring rain while digging out with a small shovel, grinning ear to ear and loving every minute of it. Choosing a skinny tire is to choose character, determination, perseverance, a touch of insanity, and a spirit for the hunt. Those are all properties of the driver that are worth upgrading in tandem with tires and suspension bits. I feel like I still have a long way to go, but I find it much more fulfilling than bolting parts onto the truck.

Likewise, the Camel Trophy events were a reminder that not all of life's challenges should be ironed out with technology. That reminder and the promise of adventure will remain intact long after the next wave of automotive technology supplants the current thinking of what's best. For those of us chasing a part of ourselves that we didn't know existed before finding it one day - up deep in the mountains alone, hopelessly stuck, and realizing how much those lattes didn't matter in the greater scheme of things - a small tire and a manual winch can offer huge advantages.

cheers,
-ike

[oryxexpeditions]

Thats great but do you actually WHEEL your truck or do you only camp? Therein lies the difference. I learned technique many years ago on past trucks and am now just scratching the surface of what my current set up can do. Your "built" truck takes you down fire roads and trails and into campsites. For what you do, spring isolators for .75" of lift is great. For me, 4" with bigger tires and more flex is great.

Actually I WHEEL and then CAMP. Imagine that . . . Come on out to some of the Jeep roads in Colorado and tell me this isn't WHEELING. Like I said, a stock Land Rover WHEELS just fine. It doesn't really need half the mods people put on them, even for pretty difficult stuff. You've got to try it sometime with a stock one. You'll be impressed. :)

[ini88]

Let us all agree that we all drive in different areas in different terrain to achieve different outcomes :)

Now post more photos of your Disco! This thread should have way more of those nice photos you were putting up before.

[oryxexpeditions]

Lets us all agree that we all drive in different areas in different terrain to achieve different outcomes :)

Now post more photos of your Disco! This thread should have way more of those nice photos you were putting up before.

That would definitely be hijacking Scott's thread, if we haven't already . . . :)

[ini88]

That would definitely be hijacking Scott's thread, if we haven't already . . . :)

hahaha, no not your Disco... Scott's Disco. Back on track!

[Wander]

I have a feeling Scott is out enjoying his Disco and dumped this thread when the fighting started.

[Viggen]

I have a feeling Scott is out enjoying his Disco and dumped this thread when the fighting started.

I have a feeling hes probably playing with his new Cruiser or the JKU

[rover4x4]

255s would be absolutely miserable on a stock geared disco with a ZF, I dont care who you are that **** sucks. 215's are so narrow they seem like they would be scary on a lifted Rover.

[Nonimouse]

East Coast terrain is a nice, large primer for what you would encounter in the Pacific Northwest. :ylsmoke: Imagine Colorado heights matched with East Coast terrain and you've got the PNW in a nutshell.

There are thousands of miles of logging roads and jeep trails cut into the Cascades after WWII. All of it goes from dusty to muddy to snowy and all of it contains big root ledges, rocks, and everything in between. I'd say half of it is all off-camber with life ending consequences for careless mistakes.

The oldest Jeep club in the country is the Yakima Ridgerunners, and all those old timers swear by the skinny tire and spirited driving. Nowadays, inside of the same club, everybody wants to prattle on about how much better their fancy high tech creations are over those old Willys Jeeps that carved the trails into the hills in the first place.

The difference that I came to accept wasn't a question regarding the efficacy of new vs. old technology, but rather making note of the sharp relief in character between old timers and young bucks like myself. Those fellas had been across both ponds and watched a great number of their countrymen die on the battlefield. Those same years of my life during their age were spent sucking down lattes in a nice office. For them, pushing a little jeep through the mountains for fun was a welcome reward for protecting their country. For me, it became an excuse to spend money.

In our age of Easy Button living we've been trained to only accept instant gratification and cannot be bothered with inconveniences like trudging through mud and snow in a pouring rain while digging out with a small shovel, grinning ear to ear and loving every minute of it. Choosing a skinny tire is to choose character, determination, perseverance, a touch of insanity, and a spirit for the hunt. Those are all properties of the driver that are worth upgrading in tandem with tires and suspension bits. I feel like I still have a long way to go, but I find it much more fulfilling than bolting parts onto the truck.

Likewise, the Camel Trophy events were a reminder that not all of life's challenges should be ironed out with technology. That reminder and the promise of adventure will remain intact long after the next wave of automotive technology supplants the current thinking of what's best. For those of us chasing a part of ourselves that we didn't know existed before finding it one day - up deep in the mountains alone, hopelessly stuck, and realizing how much those lattes didn't matter in the greater scheme of things - a small tire and a manual winch can offer huge advantages.

cheers,
-ike

Ike if you don't mind I'm going to cut and paste this. I may also refer to it in future articles. It's profound and intelligent; it also grasps the concept of what it's all about.

As for mud; well yes here in the UK we do mud differently, it's pretty much 95% of our off road driving. It's why the UK has the highest sales of MT tyres per capita in the world. We can have 10 soil types in 5 miles and clay that is only matched in Mongolia. But we have very little sand and virtually no rock - lot of water though

CT tyre choice came from two things; Construction and Use regulations; and the decision by men who created off road driving, knowing that a decent winch, reasonable rubber and a bit of underbelly protection were all you need.

Much as I respect anyone who gets off thier arse to go out and do what they enjoy, I don't understand the need to modify so much when there is simply no need. 25 years ago we used skinny tyres because that's what there was; so we did just as much but worked harder to achieve it

That's why I like most of what Scott has done to his Disco - okay some of it is way over priced and pointless (IMHO) but it's a good design and all that is needed.

Oh and I do 'wheel' and I do camp

[Antichrist]

25 years ago we used skinny tyres because that's what there was; so we did just as much but worked harder to achieve itI don't know about the UK, but here in the US 25 years ago wide tires were pretty popular. Most of the ads in the magazines I still have from that period are for wide tires.
Personally I've always preferred narrow, from my first Rover I ran 7.00x15's on to the 7.50x16's on my 109's, Lightweight and coilers. I'm disappointed that 7.50x16's are so hard to find now.

[Paladin]

The front bumper on my truck was a prototype for a bumper that went into production. The truck that it was fabbed on had a 1-1.5" body lift there are two sets of holes drilled into my bumper that accommodate either stock body lift or the additional body lift. I'm pretty sure that guy knew what he was doing.

-Sam

Sounds like he did. That type of arrangement makes a lot of sense. What I mean, was that modifying an existing bumper, takes a bit of work.


If it's mud you're talking about, they are much superior to wider tires because they cut down to the surface underneath much better.

You're assuming there's something solid underneath the mud.

That's a very unwise assumption.

[oryxexpeditions]

That's a very unwise assumption.

And if there isn't anything under there, then the wide ones will sink anyway. The flotation you get only works if you have a lot of speed and power to spin the tread clean, and keep moving. That's why they work on mud boggers with high horsepower motors. As I said, the flotation of the tires decreases control in the mud, just as wider road tires will hydroplane easier. This also makes the narrow tires better in the snow as well.

[Big D]

I have a feeling Scott is out enjoying his Disco and dumped this thread when the fighting started.

Lol...Yup...Why can't we just get along? and I though Jeep guys knew everything.

I think a few individuals are missing the point here. It started out as a discussion about bodylift and went to tires. Both of these are personal preferences depending on who uses the truck for what. But some individuals will not be persuaded no matter what. For those, I guess you have to learn to agree to disagree. That's all.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both body lifts, and different size tires.

As the one of the previous post said, lets leave this thread. I'll start the body lift one, and someone can start the tire. It's only a discussion.

[Viggen]

Good news Sea and Alia, I found your PERFECT set up. Theyre skinny, tall, AND ignore all current tire technology!
http://media2.blackfalconmedia.com/2008/10/medium/9081016.006.Mini1L2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5wr6jwHglmQ/SPnwvLeKQYI/AAAAAAAAENg/qqwmLk3OAbs/s400/Hummer-Wooden-Wheels.jpg

[oryxexpeditions]

Now that you mention it, those old wagons with REAL horsepower did go through the mud pretty well too!

[Big D]

Ha Ha I have to admit this is good!

[oryxexpeditions]

I don't know about the UK, but here in the US 25 years ago wide tires were pretty popular. Most of the ads in the magazines I still have from that period are for wide tires.
Personally I've always preferred narrow, from my first Rover I ran 7.00x15's on to the 7.50x16's on my 109's, Lightweight and coilers. I'm disappointed that 7.50x16's are so hard to find now.

I guess the closest size to these today would be 235/85R16, right?

[Antichrist]

I guess the closest size to these today would be 235/85R16, right?Close. 7.50x16's are usually about 32+" OD.

[SeaRubi]

Good news Sea and Alia, I found your PERFECT set up. Theyre skinny, tall, AND ignore all current tire technology!
http://media2.blackfalconmedia.com/2008/10/medium/9081016.006.Mini1L2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5wr6jwHglmQ/SPnwvLeKQYI/AAAAAAAAENg/qqwmLk3OAbs/s400/Hummer-Wooden-Wheels.jpg

HAWT. :ylsmoke:

[Wander]

I wonder if that Hummer was a static display of irony (and a good one) or did it actually move on those hoops? That took some thinking to get that right.

[oryxexpeditions]

I wonder if that Hummer was a static display of irony (and a good one) or did it actually move on those hoops? That took some thinking to get that right.

It took some real woodworking skills. That guy must have been reincarnated from the horse and buggy days!

David

[Nonimouse]

I don't know about the UK, but here in the US 25 years ago wide tires were pretty popular. Most of the ads in the magazines I still have from that period are for wide tires.
Personally I've always preferred narrow, from my first Rover I ran 7.00x15's on to the 7.50x16's on my 109's, Lightweight and coilers. I'm disappointed that 7.50x16's are so hard to find now.

True for the States but in the UK we had such a small selection of tyres it was a joke. The only way to get wide stuff was personal import form accross the pond. Big wide tyres were ex mil 9.00x16's! 7.50x16 Firestone SAT's were the way to go, with ex mil XCL's being the second choice
General Grabber's in 31/10.50 were the first common imports

[Paladin]

And if there isn't anything under there, then the wide ones will sink anyway. The flotation you get only works if you have a lot of speed and power to spin the tread clean, and keep moving. That's why they work on mud boggers with high horsepower motors. As I said, the flotation of the tires decreases control in the mud, just as wider road tires will hydroplane easier. This also makes the narrow tires better in the snow as well.

Better in the snow... when there's something solid underneath it. Go ask the Icelanders which tires work better when driving on a snowfield.


So you're saying the British drive through mud differently than we do, or that the mud in one of the rainiest countries is different than our mud? Their mud requires skinny tires compared to ours? Also, they were running these tires up to the late 90's in the CT. There were no other tires to choose from in Britain at that time? All of them were small and skinny?

The British enjoy winching. They set up entire competitions which are winchfests. On the other hand, most Americans hate winching. It's a mark of shame. It's slow an unspectacular.

I go everywhere the big boys go with my skinnies. But I have to winch a lot. I hear the "Oh geez, not again..." all the time.

Therein lies the real difference in approaches to tire width.

Maybe it has something to do with the restrictions on 4x4 use in the UK. They can only legally use their trucks on private land. That restricts the places they can go greatly. If they built trucks like Americans do, they'd spend all day running in circles around a piece of land. Instead, they enjoy getting stuck, and winching themselves out. They can spend all day on 10 acres of land and never see the same piece of trail twice.

[Nonimouse]

Slow - winching!?! You need to come over here and watch. We upgrade winches like you upgrade trucks. A Gigglepin can achieve enough speed to bump start a five speed. We have hydraulic winches in mass production that can achieve 275 ft/min under load. It's got so bad that we are now getting injuries to 'Winchbitches' (slang for the guy who does all the work) who have misjudged the no load line speed. The drawback is that when you make winching a sport, you forget it's an art and then the accidents happen

Guys like SImon Raferty from X-eng are working on multiple motor low mount TDS''s that make a custom 8274 look slow - with the added bonus of not falling apart like the 8274 does when you make it quicker.

Even my work winch runs a 6hp 5k rpm motor, oil impregnated bushes and custom freespool

Mind you our Challenge vehicles are fairly capable without using the winches. Most competition limits trye size to 35" but that's what is written on the side not a true measure so re-mould copies give you an extra 1-2". Boggers are fashionable but Simex ET2's are still pretty damn good. Trucks tend to be 93 to 100" wheel base, the lighter the better so 1600kgs is nice all up as they need to be strong. Unlike the Europeans we tend to use trees for steering and leaning on; tight softwood forestry plantations that are no good for man nor beast are popular. Front rear and mid mount winches are de rigeur. Mind you the standard class guys need to be watched - no lockers and one winch takes skill
Oil burners are no longer in favour - Rover's Buick upgrade is popular again, often rebuilt or taken out of a TVR. 275 to 300 English BHP is nice but with the ability not to hit the red line to 7K. Ashcroft 4 speed auto 'Monster boxes' are the trannie of choice, with Ashcroft doing the most of the rest of the drive train

Here's a report and piccies from on of the best event organisers in my own small part of the world http://www.4x4adventures.co.uk/_main/_reports10/101016_wce.htm

This is one of our top drivers on a friendly in portugal a few years back YouTube - rainforestportugal2006adrianeveritt

Sorry Scott; more hi-jacking

[Paladin]

Hardcore.

Thanks for proving my point though. ;)

So that's the pinnacle of the sport over there. This is it over here:

YouTube - 2010 Griffin King Of The Hammers III : Anarchy Trailer

Notice though. Nobody is using "skinnies" on either side, anymore. Skinnies are a compromise to street use. The discussion is not, should not be, "what's better for off-road, skinnies or big tires." But rather "what's the size that offers the best compromise between road performance and off-road for an overland vehicle."

[Nonimouse]

No, not the pinnacle, definately not. The video is of the top Portugese event four years back. It's all changed so much since then.

In the UK there are a number of events that claim to be 'the toughest' but they all vary so much; The Phoenix, The 90 degree, The Decider are all tough as hell but so very different. Most are 'punch' hunts - using orienteering punches; or have Special Sections ( a timed 'stage')

The european challenge scene differs from country to country. The Eastern European stuff is fast; with events like the Berlin-Breslau (or whatever name it runs under next year) being quick rather than technical; same goes for The Transylvanian or The Croatian. The Ladoga or The Vepski are just completely insane - liek an extreme version of any of the Scandianvian Challenges (imagine your rock crawling without the nice grippy rock (lots of lichen) and bogs, lakes, more bog with extra bog). The Murmansk to Vladivostok is different again - 12,000kms (7,500miles) of high speed endurance in snow along the Trans SIberian Highway. The winning team gets 22lbs of Gold.
Western European stuff varies from tight as hell with lots of mud and slippery rock in the UK, through rock and sand in Portugal/Spain, Jungle in the Canaries, Uber technical in Begium and France to just about everything in a hot climate in Morroco...

We also do a lot of endurance rallies in Europe - like the Baja, but less bumps, collections of shorter stages and much faster.

I've travelled over a big old chunk of this globe and what people do with 4x4's for fun is so varied

Personal favourite goes a bit bigger YouTube - Europa Truck Trial 2009 - Ostrava
Used to do this but it got so expensive just getting there - I ran a Volvo TL22/916 hybrid back in the '80's

[Fuzzy]

that looks like sooooo much fun
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1928/135/43/558626257/n558626257_1841705_1506.jpg

This is what most of my off roading has been in...with 28 TON in the box as well

[Scott Brady]

I go to Baja and come back to semi-trucks in my Disco thread.



Regarding the tires: The 245/75 ATs have been a great tire for this truck- probably the perfect tire for what I use the Disco for. I will probably put some 7.5s on there purely for fun and out of curiosity.

[oryxexpeditions]

Regarding the tires: The 245/75 ATs have been a great tire for this truck- probably the perfect tire for what I use the Disco for. I will probably put some 7.5s on there purely for fun and out of curiosity.

I run 245 Silent Armors and love them for all around use. Where can you get 7.5's, out of curiosity?

David

[Scott Brady]

Where can you get 7.5's, out of curiosity?


It is not easy, but I love a challenge ;)

[Nonimouse]

Personal import from the UK?

[Fuzzy]

Sorry, but I blame Nonimouse...

I am running 245/ SEVENTY - 16's with no lift and no rubbing is the differece that big between 70 and 75?

[Scott Brady]

The 75 gives you another half-inch of tire height.

[oryxexpeditions]

Sorry, but I blame Nonimouse...

I am running 245/ SEVENTY - 16's with no lift and no rubbing is the differece that big between 70 and 75?

The 245/70's are one inch shorter (29.5) versus the 30.5 of the 245/75. It depends on the brand/type of tire a little. Some MT's are a little taller than AT's.

[Scott Brady]

Lots of love still for my favorite Discovery. A day on the trail with AZLRO.

My brother-in-law Jared drove for most of the trail. Great to have family that loves the outdoors.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO21.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO27.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO34.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO36.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO37.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO44.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/AZLRO_2011/AZLRO45.jpg

Lockers were working great and the suspension still rewarded the driver. Hard to believe this is a 16 year old truck - miles of smiles :)

[hochung]

Awesome. Glad you still feel the love. Keep it in the family.

I have a daughter that will soon be driving, and I want to get her a Disco that is as old as she is. So I've been looking for a 96 Disco.... but it has to be manual transmission. No auto. We'll see.... I haven't found any so far.:)

She hates the idea of an old Disco. Here's the killer: she wishes for a soft top Defender. LOL

My excuse is, there are no 96 D90s. She thinks it's a lame excuse.

[jrose609]

Awesome. Glad you still feel the love. Keep it in the family.

I have a daughter that will soon be driving, and I want to get her a Disco that is as old as she is. So I've been looking for a 96 Disco.... but it has to be manual transmission. No auto. We'll see.... I haven't found any so far.:)

She hates the idea of an old Disco. Here's the killer: she wishes for a soft top Defender. LOL

My excuse is, there are no 96 D90s. She thinks it's a lame excuse.

Ho, 5-speed here in Boise. Pretty nice, but a lot of money.
http://boise.craigslist.org/ctd/2204342383.html

[tdesanto]

...Here's the killer: she wishes for a soft top Defender. LOL

My excuse is, there are no 96 D90s. She thinks it's a lame excuse.

So, she's wise in her early years and she has good taste. That could get expensive for her dad ;)

[hochung]

Ho, 5-speed here in Boise. Pretty nice, but a lot of money.
http://boise.craigslist.org/ctd/2204342383.html

But it's in good shape... hmmmm


So, she's wise in her early years and she has good taste. That could get expensive for her dad ;)

Indeed. She got the wisdom from me, and the good taste from her mom. :)

[JSQ]

Cash 4 Clunkers killed all of the Tiffany and Emily cars.

[Scott Brady]

The Disco is still purring along, and although the major work is all finished, there are still things that come up from time to time.

My latest effort is to improve the rear door cover/panel. The factory one uses a subwoofer and a small storage tray. The tray is fragile and the speaker is in the way of extra storage. With my tray cracked and the speaker useless, I decided to install a simple aluminum and powdercoated panel from Columbia Overland (http://www.columbiaoverland.com/Disco-DoorPanel). We are in the middle of the work right now, but will post up some images soon.

[Wander]

Still looking good Scott which reminds me I need to post up my 97 DI SD 5speed White Camel.

[ssssnake529]

The Disco is still purring along, and although the major work is all finished, there are still things that come up from time to time.

My latest effort is to improve the rear door cover/panel. The factory one uses a subwoofer and a small storage tray. The tray is fragile and the speaker is in the way of extra storage. With my tray cracked and the speaker useless, I decided to install a simple aluminum and powdercoated panel from Columbia Overland (http://www.columbiaoverland.com/Disco-DoorPanel). We are in the middle of the work right now, but will post up some images soon.

I have that panel. When you install it, use rubber washers on both sides. Otherwise, it will rattle and drive you crazy.

[Scott Brady]

I have that panel. When you install it, use rubber washers on both sides. Otherwise, it will rattle and drive you crazy.

Thanks for the feedback on that.

[Bugspray]

Thanks for the feedback on that.

ditto

[jscusmcvet]

The Disco is still purring along, and although the major work is all finished, there are still things that come up from time to time.

My latest effort is to improve the rear door cover/panel. The factory one uses a subwoofer and a small storage tray. The tray is fragile and the speaker is in the way of extra storage. With my tray cracked and the speaker useless, I decided to install a simple aluminum and powdercoated panel from Columbia Overland (http://www.columbiaoverland.com/Disco-DoorPanel). We are in the middle of the work right now, but will post up some images soon.

Did you ever install the panel and if so, is it just a flat panel or are you modifying it for either storage or with a fold out table or something I haven't mentioned/thought of?

Thanks for this thread, by the way. I finally read it all. I am just beginning my LR journey with a 97D1 and found this very helpful. Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you might do a "final" list of mods that you stuck with. That would be great if you ever got to it.

John

[ssssnake529]

Did you ever install the panel and if so, is it just a flat panel or are you modifying it for either storage or with a fold out table or something I haven't mentioned/thought of?

Thanks for this thread, by the way. I finally read it all. I am just beginning my LR journey with a 97D1 and found this very helpful. Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you might do a "final" list of mods that you stuck with. That would be great if you ever got to it.

John

Don't know what Scott did, but I put a table on mine:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65436&d=1310254998

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65435&d=1310254991

[colvere]

I just purchased a clean white 99 sd in centerville a few weeks back to replace the 97 SD I had on the ARB adventure. So the kitting begins, I purchased the back issue on detailing your build. I love the disco 1

[Maine 110]

Scott I have scoured the ham section to see if you posted your antenae install on ther, but have not found it... Would you share a few photos, I am installing my 2m in my d1 and am considering the hood lip mount and was wondering which one you used and how it works in real life.

Thanks,
Jesse

[Olywa]

Tag for later reading

[Olywa]

What issue was this in?

[Saratoga]

Tag for later reading

You know you can subscribe to the topic without replying :) Most forums support this function.

[Scott Brady]

We will get some shots of the 2M install and post them up.

[Red Coat]

Scott,

Some time before all the skinny versus wide arguement you mentioned you would have liked to have had a higher lower draw in your draw system. Please could I ask you to describe the height you would request if you could do it over (pleas be specific internal draw height vs external height).

Thank you


Paul VKD

[Scott Brady]

Paul,

I would have liked a 6" tall drawer (inside dimensions) and would have taken 6" out of the second level drawer.

[Scott Brady]

I took the Discovery out for a little fun yesterday, stretched its legs and even used the rear locker a few times. For recent mods, the only real change has been a 1" spring spacer on the rear suspension from Columbia Overland. It helped level the truck and put the rear driveshaft into the correct angle.

It is amazing how good these trucks really are. No wonder the Discovery collected so many awards when it was first introduced.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/303008_10150566022313275_640113274_11741024_958254 203_n.jpg

I ended up scratching the crap out of it on this trail, but it was probably the best thing. Maybe I will stop babying it so much and just use it as intended. . . or maybe I will just hit it with another coat of wax - hopefully both.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386288_10150566025923275_640113274_11741042_163767 2301_n.jpg

We were also testing a new camera for run and gun trips, the Sony NEX-5N. Here is a cheesy video I slapped together from a few of the clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQYk3cHqIzY

Here is the full trip report: Turkey Day Exploring (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/69975-Pick-a-Random-Trail-on-the-Map-A-Turkey-Day-Adventure?p=995158#post995158)

[Rexsname]

Let me know when you are ready for that wax, Scott.


REX

[Antichrist]

The only thing cheesy was the music. ;)

[Scott Brady]

I am prepping the Disco for a nice trip into the Altar Desert of Mexico and had a small issue arise on the last trail run. I am hoping for some assistance with a diagnosis. This is a 1995 with the CUX distributor ignition.

Once warm, and after driving on the trail for a few miles, the engine struggled to maintain idle, the revs dropping and then rising. It stalled a few times, but always restarted. The problem was intermittent and has not returned, but I consider it a priority to look at and address before the trip. The air temps are much colder now, which might be contributing to the problem going (mostly) away.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[JSBriggs]

Have you cleaned/replaced the idle air bypass (stepper motor)?

-Jeff

[nwoods]

Crank sensor

[LR Max]

Take a volt meter and test the voltage across the coil (the two other posts on the coil, NOT THE ONE THAT GOES TO THE DISTRIBUTOR!!). If it ain't 12v, then you need a new coil. Of course check while you are in there to make sure your distributor cap isn't half melted inside or whatever.

[blue bomber]

Crank sensor

This rig doesn't have a crank sensor. I would bet your problem is the ignition module.I would get a " Genuine" Land Rover ignition module, not a bargain basement one. Genuine will have Lucas molded into the plastic. Make sure to use dielectric grease between the aluminum plate and the module.the grease acts as a cooling agent.
Cheers, Matthew.

[baja5337]

Have you cleaned/replaced the idle air bypass (stepper motor)?

-Jeff

I'd start here too. Also you should reset the base idle.

[LtFuzz]

I had the exact same issue on my '96.

It was the stepper motor.

[jhawk]

Sounds like the Idle Air Bypass. Three bolts and it's off. A good cleaning and it's probably good to go.

Jim

[Scott Brady]

Thanks everyone. I will clean out the stepper motor first and report back

[Antichrist]

Not that it's your problem, but Matthew's post reminded me it's a good idea to relocate the ignition module. It get's really hot where they are located and will eventually kill them. You can buy an expensive relocation kit, or make your own.

[blue bomber]

The discovery ignition modules are remote mounted. This part is the"retrofit" kit, for distributor mounted modules. Placed in a nice cool spot, by the radiator. Genius, I did jump the gun. I have to remind myself. Simple stuff first!!! Clean the stepper motor, as stated. In any case the module is a handy spare.

[kferg]

I beleive the other potential culprits for this aside from the IACV (stepper motor) are the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and the TPS (throttle position sensor). I have this issue on my '95 and it is acting up again when the temp changes significantly, usually warmer weather does it. Changing the IACV made a difference 2 years ago but it is back so I don't know if it is bad or not. I plan to clean/change that and then move on to the TPS and VSS. You can also try resetting the base idle but this did not help my issue. There is an alternative part to the LR IACV part, the NAPA part # is 3-1738. Much cheaper and many people use them on the D1's.

[RMP&O]

So you going to do a build thread on that new Land Cruiser 2 you just got!? We need a bit more variety in the Cruiser area! ;)

[Scott Brady]

So you going to do a build thread on that new Land Cruiser 2 you just got!? We need a bit more variety in the Cruiser area! ;)

We will. In fact, it is going to get modified on the way down from Canada. Seems convenient to stop in at ARB and Warn on the way :D It is an LJ78 Prado Land Cruiser. It will be interesting to see how the new truck affects my attention with the Disco - I still look at the little DI with a lot of love.

[oryxexpeditions]

We will. In fact, it is going to get modified on the way down from Canada. Seems convenient to stop in at ARB and Warn on the way :D It is an LJ78 Prado Land Cruiser. It will be interesting to see how the new truck affects my attention with the Disco - I still look at the little DI with a lot of love.


It's kind of like Spock versus Kirk . . . :ylsmoke:

[Scott Brady]

It's kind of like Spock versus Kirk . . . :ylsmoke:

Exactly

[TangoBlue]

It's kind of like Spock versus Kirk . . . :ylsmoke:


Exactly

This will get ugly...

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp22/TangoBlue/stos0005.jpg

[blue bomber]

Please don't bring star trek into this, we are borderline nerdy anyway ;-)

[Antichrist]

The discovery ignition modules are remote mounted.Hmmm..the one on my '95 was mounted on the distributor.

[blue bomber]

Our discovery was made12/94 and had the remote module. Another little worth while thing to do is to solder ring connectors instead of the crimped slide in stuff. The last photo is how the remote set up looks like on my range. I have yet to make said mod on the range rover :-(

[Monkeyboy]

I hate to say this out loud...the one on the '94 has been on the dizzy since new...and it's still there and working just fine, thanks.


KAA

[Viggen]

I hate to say this out loud...the one on the '94 has been on the dizzy since new...and it's still there and working just fine, thanks.


KAA

Mine died on me and I went with a Toddco ignition module and coil set up. Went straight in and used an American module rather than the super expensive LR one.

[Scott Brady]

Mine died on me and I went with a Toddco ignition module and coil set up. Went straight in and used an American module rather than the super expensive LR one.

Would you mind providing more details on this?

Thanks

[iMTB]

Hey Scott, are you going to put some 215/85r16s on here?

[blue bomber]

Just so you know. These modules are not a chronic problem area. Our's is original. 135k and 16 years. Must be a faulty design ;-) I'd be willing to bet that peoples problems with these cars, boils down to ignorant repair shops ( and home mechanics unfamiliar with basic automotive practices) as well as cheap or used parts. Our rovers have been reliable. I will admit they have been more intensive to maintain than I would like but, if done they prove reliable. We had an fj-60 for a while and it was pretty cool but it also required more servicing than I wanted. Parts pricing and quite a few NLA parts listings, like an ignition ignitor (module, in British speak) Helped us decide move her down the road. It was nice rig but didn't fit our requirements. Forgive my blabing .


Happy Chinese new year!!!

[Scott Brady]

Hey Scott, are you going to put some 215/85r16s on here?

I considered it, but will probably go 235/85 bfg at next. In reality, the 245/75 ATs have been near perfect. I am pretty much done modifying this truck, and just enjoy driving it :)

[iMTB]

My next set will be 235/85s, but my 215s have done everything I asked. I think this should be a more used size.

[oryxexpeditions]

Would you mind providing more details on this?

Thanks

The module went out on my RR, and I went with the Pertronix D175510 Flame-thrower distributor. This is a completely new distributor which does away with the module completely and works with any standard 12V coil. I used an MSD Blaster II. I have to say that this updated technology blows the original away. Better power and response, better fuel mileage and it bolts right in, since it's based on the Lucas 35D. Only cost me 180.00 from Amazon with free shipping as well. The only way to go in my opinion.

David

[Scott Brady]

Thanks David,

I am going to stick with stock for now. Just ordered all of the spares needed.

We are heading into Northern Mexico with the Disco on Friday for its most significant adventure yet. It will be tempting to keep driving south. . .

[Scott Brady]

Have you cleaned/replaced the idle air bypass (stepper motor)?

-Jeff

You nailed it Jeff. Cleaned the stepper, MAF and intake tonight. Idles beautiful now

I am doing a full 30k service tomorrow, with new air filter, cap, rotor, plugs and wires.

[Scott Brady]

Staring to load the Disco for Mexico, and mounted a set of four Maxtrax on their new strap mount. Took 5 minutes without reading the instructions.

We are going to be in deep sand for nearly 40 miles, with some good size dunes. With only a 245/75 tire and 180hp (with a heavy truck), I think we will need the tracks. Also bringing a PullPal.

Getting excited about taking my Disco on its first international adventure :)

83350

[burn_e]

Don't worry about the sand. Disco do well in sand.
It's all about pick the right line through the dunes and the right tyre pressure (as low as possible as high as nessecary)

[JSBriggs]

You nailed it Jeff. Cleaned the stepper, MAF and intake tonight. Idles beautiful now

I am doing a full 30k service tomorrow, with new air filter, cap, rotor, plugs and wires.

Good deal. Have a safe trip. Going to do a trip report thread?

-Jeff

[Scott Brady]

All ready to go

83636
Spares kit

83637
Fuel cans (we are driving 50-60 miles in the dunes). Not sure about the new EPA ones, I will report

83638
The back all loaded up. Everything lashed down and I can still see out of the rear window. No rack, nothing on the roof. I could keep going around the world as she sits.

83639
Full tune-up. She runs really smooth at the moment and feels stronger under acceleration. New plugs, cap/rotor, air filter, full cleaning of MAP/Stepper/intake. All fluids check. Full drivetrain check (found a few bolts under torque spec on the third members).

Off we go to Mexico - I will try to update this or a trip thread as we head south.

[Ryanmb21]

I'm fired up on your trip! Looking forward to a report.

[JSBriggs]

The engine bay looks clean enough to do some manifold cooking. Homemade Mexican Disco burritos...YUM. Ok you can tell I haven't had dinner yet.

-Jeff.

[boozewz]

Looking forward to the trip report.....will we find it here on this thread?

Also where can I find those Maxtrax straps for mounting on the spare tire?

[Scott Brady]

We completed the Altar Dune crossing, and the Discovery was a champ. The V8 was just enough power and the BFG ATs exceeded my expectations (especially at 12 psi). These were big dunes and over 40 miles long. In total, the trip was just shy of 1,000 miles. Adjusted for my gearing, my best tank was 17mpg and my worst was 10mpg. I never needed the spare fuel, although it was really close in the dunes.

Really proud of my truck and so glad I brought it on this trip.

Here are a few teasers. The full story will be in Overland Journal later this year.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/424394_10150755230273275_640113274_12420520_238683 592_n.jpg
Entering the big dune field

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417923_10150755230443275_640113274_12420522_179863 2885_n.jpg
One of the crux sections with a huge windward dune face that dropped off abruptly. Only two of the five trucks didn't high-center. My Disco was one of them, no doubt aided by the ATs and the V8

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/407663_10150755230573275_640113274_12420523_210144 9039_n.jpg
The dunes run in long bands and there are dozens of bands. A brief moment of respite before entering the next crux. At this point I had aired down to 12psi, which seemed the perfect balance. I never lost a bead on these wheels, which was a concern. We had four MAXTRAX and a PullPal along just in case. For most recoveries (there were many), we used the winches.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/407083_10150755230723275_640113274_12420524_167378 8230_n.jpg
After crossing the dunes, we followed the gulf on the new highway and then entered the Pinacate. These Maar craters are incredible.

[BIGdaddy]

Looks fun, Scott. Great pics.

[hochung]

Only two of the five trucks didn't high-center. My Disco was one of them, no doubt aided by the ATs and the V8


Cmon Scott, it was all skill.

[1leglance]

83638
The back all loaded up. Everything lashed down and I can still see out of the rear window. No rack, nothing on the roof. I could keep going around the world as she sits.


So was this packed up for 1 person?
I am often jealous of solo travelers or even 2 person setups as there is soooo much more space.
But when you make it a family of 3 that includes a child the gear list grows in a huge way.
Also weather plays a huge role in the packing list.

Clean setup and glad all went well.

[Scott Brady]

So was this packed up for 1 person?


Just me and some shared recovery and photography equipment. My photo gear takes up more space than anything else.

[Christian P.]

Awesome Scott! Looks like you had a blast!

[aka rover]

Nice Scott
looks like a Blast I just picked up a 5spd Disco for some mild expo use, going to fallow your lead on the build and copy much of what you have done. It appears you have nailed it on a good DD offroad balance.

Ed

[blue bomber]

Nice images. Looking forward to the magazine, sorry journal.

[Scott Brady]

Thanks Ed. Hope you are doing well up in AK. I will be there in April

[Viggen]

Would you mind providing more details on this?

Thanks

I believe it uses a Ford module. I cannot remember exactly and is very easy to set up.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-39066446675134_2193_144102
"Performance Ignition Module, this is designed to replace the problematic lucas ignition module. Benefits include your Rover starting when it should, improved fuel economy, moisture will not effect this ignition module, and it has a LIFETIME WARRANTY! The kit now includes a new oil cooled performance coil replacing the non-oil cooled problematic stock coil. Simple to install, comes complete with instructions, connectors, and wiring."

[burn_e]

We completed the Altar Dune crossing, and the Discovery was a champ. The V8 was just enough power and the BFG ATs exceeded my expectations (especially at 12 psi). These were big dunes and over 40 miles long. In total, the trip was just shy of 1,000 miles. Adjusted for my gearing, my best tank was 17mpg and my worst was 10mpg. I never needed the spare fuel, although it was really close in the dunes.


Congratulations on the great trip. Happy you had a good time in the dunes.

I was wondering why you were so worried about the range of the car in the dunes. As you might expect we get a lot of dune driving here (well actually it is quite a drive to find something which is not covered with sand) and usually my RRC (3.9ltr) gives me easily 250 km/ 155 Miles offroad on the tank before the light comes on.

Did you guys had to cover a long stretch before or after entering the sand that you got tight on fuel?

[aka rover]

Thanks Ed. Hope you are doing well up in AK. I will be there in April

Look me up when you get here and lets chat over a beer, hope to see you then.

[Scott Brady]

Congratulations on the great trip. Happy you had a good time in the dunes.

I was wondering why you were so worried about the range of the car in the dunes. As you might expect we get a lot of dune driving here (well actually it is quite a drive to find something which is not covered with sand) and usually my RRC (3.9ltr) gives me easily 250 km/ 155 Miles offroad on the tank before the light comes on.

Did you guys had to cover a long stretch before or after entering the sand that you got tight on fuel?

We covered nearly 160 miles of dirt in total. The 40 miles across the dunes was only as the crow flies, not our actual route.

There are so many variables, including disabled vehicles that may need to be towed, sand conditions (hot/dry sand as opposed to cool/moist sand). We had not crossed these dunes before and the route was determined on Google earth. Proper preparation requires you to estimate consumption and then double it to ensure a PNR close enough to the exit point. Three of the other trucks all needed to use several cans of fuel. Weight of the vehicle, traction, driver style and drivetrain efficiency all being a factor. We have crossed large stretches of Saharan and Australian sand seas and found that adequate fuel reserve is a critical planning/safety consideration.

[boozewz]

Awesome trip, and well looking forward to the write up in OJ. The terrain is very similar to the dunes we have here.

How did the Maxtrax perform? Did you put them to use? Also, where did you obtain the ratchet strap that ties the Maxtrax to the spare tire?

Cheers

[Scott Brady]

Awesome trip, and well looking forward to the write up in OJ. The terrain is very similar to the dunes we have here.

How did the Maxtrax perform? Did you put them to use? Also, where did you obtain the ratchet strap that ties the Maxtrax to the spare tire?

Cheers

On this particular trip, we did not use the MaxTrax. We had enough extra vehicles and winches. We did drop into one bowl that was extremely difficult to exit and I was sure we were going to need to lay them all out.

MaxTrax has a new strap system just released. We are completing our evaluation on it and will post to the home page in the next few days.

[colvere]

Could you provide your camping gear list for this trip, looks like the trailer stayed home. I am still working on my camping gear list and plan on leaving it in the truck the whole time.

How did the gearing work out for you, I know you geared it for the eventual installation of a TDI. I am in gear selection mode for my 99 and plan on keeping 4.0. I would want a ballence between mpg and trail worthiness.

[Scott Brady]

Could you provide your camping gear list for this trip, looks like the trailer stayed home. I am still working on my camping gear list and plan on leaving it in the truck the whole time.

How did the gearing work out for you, I know you geared it for the eventual installation of a TDI. I am in gear selection mode for my 99 and plan on keeping 4.0. I would want a ballence between mpg and trail worthiness.

We will post our camping list in the coming weeks. It is a project we have been working towards.

In this truck's configuration, the 3.90:1s are perfect, even with the V8. Long term, the goal is still TDi and 235/85s, but the truck is working so darn good as is, so the motivation is less.

[colvere]

I would think even with 235/85 and 3.90 mileage would be good and it would wheel and pull small trailer fine with v8. I have to spend a few days in Salt lake and was going to leave my rig a great basin to update diffs soon.

[hks3sgte]

Great read. Makes me want to get my '95 in tip top shape!

[Scott Brady]

The newest accessory - only for special occasions.

HighLander.
88723

I really wanted a LowLander and will still be on the lookout for one, but this will do for now. Getting the ladder too.

I wanted to have a few factory accessories while they are still available. This rack was particularly clean and rust free. I will set-up a lightweight floor and use it for photography and firewood. . .

It will stay off the truck most of the time.

[hochung]

FINALLY!!!

Don't you want some Hellas on there too? :)

[LtFuzz]

It is impossible to resist continually modifying a nice white D1. Sorry Scott, you're doomed.

Eventually we will see Hellas, a rear Matador, and probably at least a TruTrac in the rear.

Bummer you didn't try to find a CT Expo rack -- they look oh-so-good.

[colvere]

Sweet it is the same one I have. Now lets see how it affects your camping list. I have heard lights help with wind noise from rack:sombrero:

[Scott Brady]

It is impossible to resist continually modifying a nice white D1. Sorry Scott, you're doomed.


You are probably right ;)

I do like the look of the rack on the truck.

I am also seriously considering a move to 235/85 R16 tires. I want to try a taller tire for increased clearance, but also in a really mild tread pattern. Consider it more of testing a theory I have than anything worthy of a recommendation. I am also considering buying another full set of wheels and getting some 7.5 XZLs partly for muddy conditions, but mostly because they will look sweet

Michelin LTZ MS2 (http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/LTMetric/235/85/16/tires)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ao2H2mp1cFw/TNgkJp7pfNI/AAAAAAAAPX4/J-jO-OB4n34/s1600/LTX+MS2.jpg

[shogun]

I am also seriously considering a move to 235/85 R16 tires. I want to try a taller tire for increased clearance, but also in a really mild tread pattern. Consider it more of testing a theory I have than anything worthy of a recommendation. I am also considering buying another full set of wheels and getting some 7.5 XZLs partly for muddy conditions, but mostly because they will look sweet


https://www.treadwright.com/p-27-235-85r16-axiom-a-t-e.aspx

[James Pierce]

The truck looks great Scott! But I agree it would look even better with the 7.50's. I have an extra set of new take offs on wolf wheels I've been hoarding to put on a white disco of my own some day. I would probably let them go for 1500 if you're interested.

89663

[Scott Brady]

https://www.treadwright.com/p-27-235-85r16-axiom-a-t-e.aspx

Wow, really good price.

[Scott Brady]

The truck looks great Scott! But I agree it would look even better with the 7.50's. I have an extra set of new take offs on wolf wheels I've been hoarding to put on a white disco of my own some day. I would probably let them go for 1500 if you're interested.

89663

James, you are tempting me beyond what I am able. If I wasn't about to leave for essentially two years, it would be a no-brainer.

[James Pierce]

The little voice of reason is saying buy them. You need something to look forward to when you come home...

2 years is a long time to be away. Where are you going?

[SlowChevy07]

The little voice of reason is saying buy them. You need something to look forward to when you come home...

2 years is a long time to be away. Where are you going?
I believe he's got a round the world trip planned.

[Owyhee H]

You are probably right ;)

I do like the look of the rack on the truck.

I am also seriously considering a move to 235/85 R16 tires. I want to try a taller tire for increased clearance, but also in a really mild tread pattern. Consider it more of testing a theory I have than anything worthy of a recommendation. I am also considering buying another full set of wheels and getting some 7.5 XZLs partly for muddy conditions, but mostly because they will look sweet

Michelin LTZ MS2 (http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/LTMetric/235/85/16/tires)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ao2H2mp1cFw/TNgkJp7pfNI/AAAAAAAAPX4/J-jO-OB4n34/s1600/LTX+MS2.jpg

I really like my Michelin LTX AT2, but was considering the MS2 for the next set. They are a really nice quiet tire that I hear unreal longevity reports from. Intrested to see what you think.

2 years, that is going to be one great trip.

[mhiscox]

Well, it took nearly 1200 posts, but I finally can add something cogent to this thread . . .

Michelin LTX/MS tires--original and MS2--are, in my experience, competent beyond explanation. They are brilliant on the pavement--wet, dry or snowy--and workable in off-pavement situations where you wouldn't expect bupkis. I've certainly drunk the Kool-Aid; I've put them on five different trucks and set six will soon go onto the Hundred.

[McZippie]

Well, it took nearly 1200 posts, but I finally can add something cogent to this thread . . .

Michelin LTX/MS tires--original and MS2--are, in my experience, competent beyond explanation. They are brilliant on the pavement--wet, dry or snowy--and workable in off-pavement situations where you wouldn't expect bupkis. I've certainly drunk the Kool-Aid; I've put them on five different trucks and set six will soon go onto the Hundred.

Ditto... I too drank the LTX/MS and AT Kool-Aid years ago. They are good for 60,000+ miles.
For a decade drove a Ford E350 4x4 Van and put 250K miles on it. Tried many different tires on the van and they all had problems. Switched to LTX/MS and AT on the Van and never had a problem.
.
All in all, with many different vehicles and trailers have put well over 1/2 milllion miles on LTX tires and have never had any problems, not even a flat.
I have no real brand loyalty to Michelin and would switch to different tire if could find one that worked better.
.
FWIW I never rotate tires, when rear ones wear out I switch them to front and buy new tires for rear, then replace all 4 next time.
.
With 40Kmiles on the RV's LTX/MS I'm anxiously waiting for them to wear out so can replace them with larger diameter tires, unfortunately they show little wear.
.
Currently have LTX/MS on 4 vehicles and 1 trailer. LTX/AT on a Jeep JKU Rubicon and matching wheels on a Bantan T3 Trailer.
The Rubicon is all stock except for a mild tire lift 285/65R18. The AT's work pretty good in the snow and are a lot more quiet and smoother than the OEM tires.
.
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/405256_2918699411124_1369941973_3132011_1289989977 _n.jpg

[JSQ]

Get those XZLs while the getting is good, Scott.

[bigreen505]

Well, it took nearly 1200 posts, but I finally can add something cogent to this thread . . .

Michelin LTX/MS tires--original and MS2--are, in my experience, competent beyond explanation. They are brilliant on the pavement--wet, dry or snowy--and workable in off-pavement situations where you wouldn't expect bupkis. I've certainly drunk the Kool-Aid; I've put them on five different trucks and set six will soon go onto the Hundred.

Yeah, they suck on ice but wear like iron. Fine on dirt roads. Kind of the ultimate all season tire. I would recommend getting a road hazard warranty on them. I've killed a couple.

[JeffRRC]

Discos look so much better with a roof rack!

[Mike_rupp]

You are probably right ;)

I do like the look of the rack on the truck.

I am also seriously considering a move to 235/85 R16 tires. I want to try a taller tire for increased clearance, but also in a really mild tread pattern. Consider it more of testing a theory I have than anything worthy of a recommendation. I am also considering buying another full set of wheels and getting some 7.5 XZLs partly for muddy conditions, but mostly because they will look sweet

Michelin LTZ MS2 (http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/LTMetric/235/85/16/tires)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ao2H2mp1cFw/TNgkJp7pfNI/AAAAAAAAPX4/J-jO-OB4n34/s1600/LTX+MS2.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6195/6121829816_93e08512ec_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marupp/6121829816/)
Discovery XD (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marupp/6121829816/) by rupp62 (http://www.flickr.com/people/marupp/), on Flickr
It's hard to make out, but that's the tire I use on my Disco. I also have a set of BFG Muds, but lately I just leave my street tires on. They are so damn nice on the road and do fine off-road.

[Scott Brady]

It's hard to make out, but that's the tire I use on my Disco. I also have a set of BFG Muds, but lately I just leave my street tires on. They are so damn nice on the road and do fine off-road.

Sweet

I like that they look nearly identical to the stock tire, but are available in a larger diameter.

[chris snell]

Looking good, Scott.

[jrose609]

I have those Michelins on my wife's LR3. They are very quiet. They provide good handling on wet, snowy, icy, and dry conditions. We have been impressed. I cannot speak to off-road ability because the LR3 is basically a glorified mini-van/mall crawler.

[benlittle]

Nice rack, Scott :p

Your truck is going to end up looking just like mine :D

[Scott Brady]

Your truck is going to end up looking just like mine :D

You guys figured all this stuff out a long time ago - I am pretty late to the party.

[craig]

I had sidewall issues with those tires on my DII. Might have been driver error though, as it was my first few times off road. :-|

[benlittle]

You guys figured all this stuff out a long time ago - I am pretty late to the party.

Nah... I'm only following in the footsteps of the Rupp's and Olivares' of the world...;)

[Mike_rupp]

Nah... I'm only following in the footsteps of the Rupp's and Olivares' of the world...;)

Don't lump me in with Marc. He does know what he's doing. The only thing I've got figured out is that I don't have much figured out.

[benlittle]

Don't lump me in with Marc. He does know what he's doing. The only thing I've got figured out is that I don't have much figured out.

When I first got on dweb in about 2004... The first thing Marc said to me was something like... "welcome, now sell that DII and get a DI"...LOL

[craig]

LOL! I think he said the same thing to me. I coulda saved a lot of bloody knuckles, time, and money if I would have listened.

[454]

I've discovered something: I like my wife's '96 D1 that we picked up for $1500 more than my D2.

Shame. I've made a lot of memories with that truck.

[dustin_keib]

Scott

You have done a wonderful job of documenting a mild yet extremely capable overlanding/DD Disco. Something I intend to do with my 98 LSE I just purchased (Second Disco, first was a 01 Disco II)

I intend to follow a lot of the things you have done with your build. I'd like to keep it as inexpensive as possible, retaining most if not all of the daily driving comfort that Discos are known for, while fixing reliability and increasing performance (more tweaking performance) along the way.

To this end, I am currently researching and thinking through my modifications, while I continue to learn proper driving techniques and the general "feel" of the marvelously capable stock Disco I have now. I currently do some very mild (by probably everyone on this board's standards) wheeling with some friends here in LHC, AZ - I am very new to this slickrock/desert sand terrain we have here - I came from the muddy midwest.

I love the writeup you have done here. As others have asked, I'd love a summary (been through the thread, and realized I needed to go back and take notes - after 120 pages - oops!)

Also, I noticed someone mentioned a writeup of this in your/someone's magazine? Is that available somewhere for purchase as a back issue?

Thanks for the help in advance. And, for the record, even though I'm probably last in line, I'd be interested if you ever sell this gem of a Disco - it is everything I am planning for mine, and so much more! And white to boot! (Although I love my original rover green...)

Thanks
Dustin

[dcwhybrew]

Scott

You have done a wonderful job of documenting a mild yet extremely capable overlanding/DD Disco. Something I intend to do with my 98 LSE I just purchased (Second Disco, first was a 01 Disco II)

I intend to follow a lot of the things you have done with your build. I'd like to keep it as inexpensive as possible, retaining most if not all of the daily driving comfort that Discos are known for, while fixing reliability and increasing performance (more tweaking performance) along the way.

To this end, I am currently researching and thinking through my modifications, while I continue to learn proper driving techniques and the general "feel" of the marvelously capable stock Disco I have now. I currently do some very mild (by probably everyone on this board's standards) wheeling with some friends here in LHC, AZ - I am very new to this slickrock/desert sand terrain we have here - I came from the muddy midwest.

I love the writeup you have done here. As others have asked, I'd love a summary (been through the thread, and realized I needed to go back and take notes - after 120 pages - oops!)

Also, I noticed someone mentioned a writeup of this in your/someone's magazine? Is that available somewhere for purchase as a back issue?

Thanks for the help in advance. And, for the record, even though I'm probably last in line, I'd be interested if you ever sell this gem of a Disco - it is everything I am planning for mine, and so much more! And white to boot! (Although I love my original rover green...)

Thanks
Dustin

Thread hijack....

Hey Dustin, couple of recommendations for you (as it sounds like you're new to the area there), 1) check out the Las Vegas Land Rover Club (www.lrclv.com I think, or google it). 2) go to Hastings book store and pick up a spiral bound book on Arizona 4 wheel drive trails. As you have found there are a lot of places to wheel where you live. I used to live in Laughlin, and worked in Bullhead City. I miss that area (except for during the summers...LOL)

[ipgregory]

Carrying on the hijack:

Probably a little further away but the AZ LR club is at www.AZLRO.ORG (http://www.AZLRO.ORG). Mostly based in and around Tucson and Phoenix though.

Welcome to the SW.

Hijack off.

[dustin_keib]

Sorry to instigate the hijack :oops: and muchos gracias for the info. (no way to start out as a new member!)

Sooooooooo much exploring in the desert to do..Not to mention the basic maintenance to make me feel like the truck is reliable (paranoid in this area)

I will start a new build thread when I get going (sooo much to figure out first) - but here's a pic of my new beauty.

91726

/hijack

would like to see more pretty white D1 pics/info though!

[zimm]

You are probably right ;)

I do like the look of the rack on the truck.

I am also seriously considering a move to 235/85 R16 tires. I want to try a taller tire for increased clearance, but also in a really mild tread pattern. Consider it more of testing a theory I have than anything worthy of a recommendation. I am also considering buying another full set of wheels and getting some 7.5 XZLs partly for muddy conditions, but mostly because they will look sweet

Michelin LTZ MS2 (http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/LTMetric/235/85/16/tires)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ao2H2mp1cFw/TNgkJp7pfNI/AAAAAAAAPX4/J-jO-OB4n34/s1600/LTX+MS2.jpg


had em on the G. keep em out of wet clay and youll be fine. i bet its much more passable tire where youre located.

[PETER PETRAKIEV]

A few days ago installed a of Qt services 3º Castor corrected radius arms (45mm)
Heavy duty cranked trailing arms.
Also Front Wide Angle Prop Shaft and Rear Wide Angle Prop Shaft.

98746 98747 98748 9874998750 98751 98752

[PETER PETRAKIEV]

Change and the rear flange, and remove of rear propshaft rubber coupling .

98753 98754 98755 9875698757 98758 98759

[PETER PETRAKIEV]

Sent flange was wrong, there are several types.
Finally everything is fine.

98761 98762 98763 9876498765 98766 98767

[PETER PETRAKIEV]

And the difference,
.... before

98768 98769

...... and now
98770 98771

[PETER PETRAKIEV]

The next step.

- Heavy Duty Steering Arm Set
- Panhard Rod Adjustable
- Terrafirma return to centre (RTC) steering damper
- Steering Damper Side Mount Kit
- Steering Damper Mount Kit on a LHD Disco 1 GL79RHD

114641 114642 114643 114644114645 114646 114647 114648114649

[craig]

Peter,

Perhaps you can start a new thread with the details of your build rather than posting in this thread that is about Scott Brady's truck?

Craig

[PETER PETRAKIEV]

Peter,

Perhaps you can start a new thread with the details of your build rather than posting in this thread that is about Scott Brady's truck?

Craig

Sorry, let a moderator to delete my posts.

[Viggen]

98748 98749

Youre a braver man than I. There is NO way I would be underneath a truck supported in the rear in this spot.

[blue bomber]

Youre a braver man than I. There is NO way I would be underneath a truck supported in the rear in this spot.

Huh?? This is one of the strongest sections of the chassis. The fore and aft suspension movement is secured at this point. Not sure how to calculate the strength but there is massive load on this section. Not a failure issue on rover frames.The front and rear link attachment points are at the same height. Creating an even lifting point.
Done it may times.

[junkyddog11]

Youre a braver man than I. There is NO way I would be underneath a truck supported in the rear in this spot.
I've been picking them up for years with a lift on this point. If you can't pick it up there where would you? Probably one of the strongest parts of the frame, I would say probably stronger than the actual frame on either side of that point.

[Scott Brady]

Quick update on my Disco - still have it - still drive it (whenever I am in the US) and still love it

No new modifications and nothing really new on the schedule. I might actually start taking a few things off or out of it ;)

[hks3sgte]

I bet the waiting list on your Disco is looooooooong.

[Scott Brady]

I think Bobby Curtis is first on the list if I ever sold it.

The problem is, I would regret selling it the moment it drove away. I will just keep it - it makes me smile and it looks darn good parked in our office :sombrero:

Oh, and it makes for a good desk to look at maps and take pictures of guns
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s720x720/545123_10150924888673275_2106494279_n.jpg

On its trip to Mexico, doing what a Land Rover should (looking stylish for a photo)
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/404314_10150734436028275_308869835_n.jpg

[Ray_G]

I think Bobby Curtis is first on the list if I ever sold it.

The problem is, I would regret selling it the moment it drove away. I will just keep it - it makes me smile and it looks darn good parked in our office :sombrero:

Oh, and it makes for a good desk to look at maps and take pictures of guns
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s720x720/545123_10150924888673275_2106494279_n.jpg


Sweet, is there an upcoming edition of OJ that is 'guns of the Afghan resistance'?

[Scott Brady]

Sweet, is there an upcoming edition of OJ that is 'guns of the Afghan resistance'?

OJ does need more gun content

[High Center]

That's so funny man- I often relate my Disco to an Enfield. Tough, wonky and VERY British. I have an idea bouncing around for a headliner mount (map pocket area) for an SMLE. I'll pretend I'm crossing the veld on my way to the mall.... :ylsmoke:

Great truck by the way.

Best
HC

[Antichrist]

OJ does need more gun contentSpeaking as a long time gun owner I have to say, not really. There are so many magazines now devoted to guns and others with a lot of gun content, I don't really see the need in a magazine devoted to overlanding. Particularly when taking a gun with you across many borders can get you in trouble at worst, or more closely scrutinized at best.

[High Center]

"Evaluate change to manual window and door locks"


What ever came of this Scott? I was trying to get a line on doing the manual window switch to my rig but ran into road blocks everywhere. Just wondering if you found any success?

[Antichrist]

I was trying to get a line on doing the manual window switch to my rig but ran into road blocks everywhere.I'm finally putting together an order to get the bits I need to do it. What roadblocks did you run in to?

[High Center]

I couldn't find them stateside and getting them from across the pond was brutal. The closest that I came was via a family member traveling through GB...
It didn't work out needless to say.

I would love to know how you worked it out-

[oryxexpeditions]

I was looking into doing this as well, but someone in the UK told me that the actual door is made differently for the manual windows, so to do it, you need the entire set of doors including the interior trim panel from the donor vehicle.

David

[Antichrist]

Ah, ok. Well I was told they are the same. Maybe I'll just order one and see.

[oryxexpeditions]

Ah, ok. Well I was told they are the same. Maybe I'll just order one and see.

That would tell us for sure, but only for a certain model year. Which one of yours are you planning to convert?

[Antichrist]

My '95. But I can pull the panel off of the '97 to see if they are the same.
Honestly it doesn't make sense to me for Rover to go to the expense of making two different doors just to have a manual or electric window. Not that Rover has always made sense to me.

[oryxexpeditions]

My '95. But I can pull the panel off of the '97 to see if they are the same.
Honestly it doesn't make sense to me for Rover to go to the expense of making two different doors just to have a manual or electric window. Not that Rover has always made sense to me.

I do remember that when I bought an electric window regulator for my 1995, it was a different part number than the ones for 1996 and up, so there was a change at a certain VIN. I think the earliest Discoveries might have had yet another part number, and that was when manual window versions were most prevalent.

[454]

Speaking as a long time gun owner I have to say, not really. There are so many magazines now devoted to guns and others with a lot of gun content, I don't really see the need in a magazine devoted to overlanding. Particularly when taking a gun with you across many borders can get you in trouble at worst, or more closely scrutinized at best.

Tom, I have to disagree. There are many gun rags, but very few have the refinement and quality of OJ. Double Gun Journal does, but not many others. I would enjoy seeing the occasional gun article in OJ. I suspect that it wouldn't be a love letter to black plastic. Blued steel and walnut would fit just fine, I think.

[oryxexpeditions]

Tom, I have to disagree. There are many gun rags, but very few have the refinement and quality of OJ. Double Gun Journal does, but not many others. I would enjoy seeing the occasional gun article in OJ. I suspect that it wouldn't be a love letter to black plastic. Blued steel and walnut would fit just fine, I think.

The question is, what do guns have to do with over landing?

[454]

The question is, what do guns have to do with over landing?

Food for the pot, recreation, and protection. The law in the given location would apply.

If that's not a good answer, I'll happily defer to this fellow:


OJ does need more gun content

I'd rather not clutter up this thread with what may devolve into a Constitutional debate. If anyone feels strongly enough about this, let's take it to another thread.

[oryxexpeditions]

I'd rather not clutter up this thread with what may devolve into a Constitutional debate.

Why would it devolve into a Constitutional debate? No one's questioning the legality or rights of gun ownership.

It's just when I consider taking trips overland by vehicle around the world, I've never considered taking firearms with me. Seems like they would be a potential liability more than an aid. Just my view. I suppose you could take an overland trip to go shooting here in the U.S., but I myself have never felt the need to pack up and drive long distances to do that. Hunting trips are another issue, but seem like a separate activity from overlanding which is more associated with exploration and tourism.

With that said, of course you can do anything you want on an overlanding trip, including shooting, . . . or throwing a frisbee. Just wondering why a whole article of an overlanding magazine would be devoted to a gun per se. . .

[454]

...Just wondering why a whole article of an overlanding magazine would be devoted to a gun per se. . .

And I ask, 'why not?'.

[oryxexpeditions]

And I ask, 'why not?'.

To leave space for overlanding articles.

[Ray Hyland]

I gotta agree with Oryx on this one, I think there is enough gun content in the world. But, I don't want to derail the Disco thread. We could carry this over to the Sportsman's thread if anyone wants to.

[Ray_G]

I'm really interested in exploring the manual window concept that was being discussed. I've considered it a few times and just assumed the best way to do it would be to pair up with someone bringing over a Defender and throw a whole set of at least front doors in the truck as it goes in the container, that way you've got everything just in case.

[High Center]

I'm really interested in exploring the manual window concept that was being discussed. I've considered it a few times and just assumed the best way to do it would be to pair up with someone bringing over a Defender and throw a whole set of at least front doors in the truck as it goes in the container, that way you've got everything just in case.

I agree- If the doors mate up, I would certainly be willing to trade them out.

[Scott Brady]

Enjoying a quiet week in the office and going through images. Here is the Discovery in its latest iteration (minus the SD rack) when we crossed the Altar desert in Mexico. I think I might take her out this weekend and stretch the legs a bit.

131660

[dcwhybrew]

Enjoying a quiet week in the office and going through images. Here is the Discovery in its latest iteration (minus the SD rack) when we crossed the Altar desert in Mexico. I think I might take her out this weekend and stretch the legs a bit.

131660

Makes me miss my 96 Disco SD...that was the one that started the addiction. 6 more were to follow! And now, I have none...

[killahaas@gmail.com]

Scott, your truck makes me miss my 99 D1 sd aswell, it was also my first car! i loved the thing. but if i ever come by white D1 SD 5 speed, i am scooping it up! and putting the series resto project forsale!

[RNPhoto]

I want a 5speed 95 with a 200Tdi super bad!

[jrose609]

I want a 5speed 95 with a 200Tdi super bad!

The one for sale in the expo classifieds is probably one of the nicest around. Justin Sherfy built it. Sweet, sweet truck.

[Dmarchand]

How do the warn hid w400 lights perform? I've seen them on a couple of the OJ trucks. Like the sizing but hard to tell what the quality is.

[Scott Brady]

Feel the white Discovery I love. Who thought 245/75s could look that sexy ;)

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/340572_10151551348408275_1564849504_o.jpg

[Scott Brady]

How do the warn hid w400 lights perform? I've seen them on a couple of the OJ trucks. Like the sizing but hard to tell what the quality is.
This truck runs Baja Designs 4" Fuegos. They are understated, all metal construction and have excellent performance for the size.