Tom Brokaw and Yvon Chouinard at Zeitgeist '07

[grahamfitter]

From The Cleanest Line (http://www.thecleanestline.com/): Tom Brokaw recently interviewed Patagonia owner Yvon Chouinard at Google's Zeitgeist 2007 conference. The theme:


Leading a Non-Virtual Life

Tom Brokaw and Yvon Chouinard talk about being intentionally "un-networked" and leading a deliberately disconnected life. Both discuss why living off the grid is critical for a well-rounded existence.


My humble opinion: We should all be more like Chouinard.

The interview is on the Cleanest Line page but in case it vanishes, its also on Youtube: here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlMbcHX1XZA).

Cheers,
Graham

[Wanderlusty]

I wish I was brave enough to live like that sometimes. Off-the-grid (whether in regards to utilities, or technology) living really appeals to me...but it is a lot to give up....and a lot to ask your family to give up as well...

[HiLift Jack]

Yoda speaks, I love this guy. As a manufacturer I am trying to drink his koolade but the supply chain sucks in this country of cradle to grave logic.

[DaveInDenver]

My humble opinion: We should all be more like Chouinard.
He says in an Internet post linking to an Internet hosted interview... ;-)

[DesertRose]

From The Cleanest Line (http://www.thecleanestline.com/): Tom Brokaw recently interviewed Patagonia owner Yvon Chouinard at Google's Zeitgeist 2007 conference. The theme:


Leading a Non-Virtual Life

Tom Brokaw and Yvon Chouinard talk about being intentionally "un-networked" and leading a deliberately disconnected life. Both discuss why living off the grid is critical for a well-rounded existence.


My humble opinion: We should all be more like Chouinard.

The interview is on the Cleanest Line page but in case it vanishes, its also on Youtube: here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlMbcHX1XZA).

Cheers,
Graham

Terribly interesting. Chouinard has always lived a dual life - he can afford to be "disconnected" because he has a fabulous group of people working their tails off to make his life, um, easier, through the success of Patagonia . . . not trying to be cynical. But it's a good philosophy - you don't, however, have to be disconnected to live a simpler life. It's more about making choices appropriate to your own life and landscape and culture.

[elcoyote]

Terribly interesting. Chouinard has always lived a dual life - he can afford to be "disconnected" because he has a fabulous group of people working their tails off to make his life, um, easier, through the success of Patagonia . . . not trying to be cynical. But it's a good philosophy - you don't, however, have to be disconnected to live a simpler life. It's more about making choices appropriate to your own life and landscape and culture.

How true. Those of us who have fewer resources at hand struggle a bit at this. As easy as it would be for me to turn my phone and isp off, they are my connection to our clients and hence the life blood of our company. that connectivity simplifes and complicates at the same time. I admire Yvon for his outspokeness on many subjects and we have considerd 1% as an option for our company. I hope that AT can acheive that level of social consciousness that Yvon has shown through his leadership.

[articulate]

By the way, a lot of the "disconnectedness" discussed in the interview is about cell phones and computers; modern gadgets and technology. He's not talking about being away from his company at length so he can go play. Chouinard emphasizes getting "your hands dirty" to get the job done, rather than relying on technology or delegation. I suspect that some of us feel the same way about cell phones as he does. While his company is "connected," (It's the way businesses are, he says) he chooses not to stay tied by a blackberry or cell phone.

I first read about Chouinard in a collection of historical accounts of early Yosemite big wall climbs. He forged his own pitons to make incredible first ascents when only a handful of people were climbing in Yosemite - he designed, engineered, built and used the equipment he'd need to ascend a new line on El Cap. Today's climbers waltz into REI and buy what they might need, sometimes on credit.

In my readings, I got the impression that he was a hard working individual with vision. I suspect that's how he's come to have a fabulous group of people working for him. He didn't just wake up one day and have thriving business under his palms. He's a hands-on kind of guy.

I'm not sure if we're about to crucify the guy for having on-the-fringe beliefs while also being highly successful (gee, how lucky for you...), but I thought this was worth saying.

[grahamfitter]

I'm most impressed with the way Chouinard uses the environment as a reason to effect change and the result is an improved product.

As for being disconnected, I'm not. The internet allows me to meet people who have the same interests I do that I'd otherwise never come into contact with. I think its this personal communication that allows small wineries - and trailer makers - to grow and prosper and keep their character in a homogenized world. Somewhat serendipitously, the internet is also where I met my girlfriend back in 1996!

Cheers,
Graham

[elcoyote]

I'm most impressed with the way Chouinard uses the environment as a reason to effect change and the result is an improved product.

As for being disconnected, I'm not. The internet allows me to meet people who have the same interests I do that I'd otherwise never come into contact with. I think its this personal communication that allows small wineries - and trailer makers - to grow and prosper and keep their character in a homogenized world. Somewhat serendipitously, the internet is also where I met my girlfriend back in 1996!

Cheers,
Graham
Agreed! If it were not for the internet, Martyn & I would have never met and Adventure Trailers would never have been conceived.

[shahram]

I'm a huge fan of Chouinard's. He's been an inspiration since I saw him pull up to Tar Pits in his beat up Tercel and go surfing. He was a multi-millionaire then, and has engendered a lot of revolutionary stuff since.

So no disrespect to Chouinard, but for the vast majority of us who are expected to be imminently available at all times by family and business are kinda out of luck on the whole "disconnected" thing.

'Cause I guaran-goddamn-tee ya that Yvon expects his employees to be electronically connected to each other...or maybe he's too busy bonefishing in the South Pacific, but his managers expect his employees to be electronically connected to each other.

Disconnectivity is a luxury for the Chouinards of the world.

[HMR]

I grew up in Ventura and have been a Great Pacific Ironworks/Patagucci/ Cheap Sports fan for years. Chouinard is a living legend. But I agree, it's gotta be a lot easier to disconnect when you've got millions of dollars rolling in and a 100-acre parcel at Hollister Ranch to escape to.

I wonder if his royalty checks are electronically deposited?:sombrero:

[Schattenjager]

The less I have, the more I gain.


Except for truck mods, of course.
and music
travel,
health,
oh crap...
...nevermind

[windy]

Let us put things into perspective here, friends. Disconnectivity on the level of the mainstream media is a critical separation from functioning on the level of daily living where our communication with our "community" happens due to technological advances, thus evolution.
In Sustainability, we frequently discuss that the Homo sapien as it is, is socially dependent for intellectual, spiritual, emotional, and mechanical survival upon interaction with "community". Which means that as we strive to move toward "living off the grid" in order to reconnect with our natural environment, we will either need to adapt to less socially involved lives, or depend more upon our electronic connections.
You all know that we currently stand at 300 million plus in the States alone. Let us imagine for a moment what would happen if say, 200 million of us chose to live "off the grid". What would that mean for the environment, for community, sustainability?
I am not advocating either way. I am merely suggesting that on a mass scale , our voices should not represent what we ourselves, as individuals, would prefer for our own lives, but what we could accomplish or destroy in mass numbers. Overpopulation is, after all, our #1 combatant. We have fu*#ed like mice, my friends.
There is a critical point where the "self" becomes irrelevant. And thus, in this realization, the "self" is rewarded.

[Wonderland]

Live and let live...

[articulate]

In Sustainability, we frequently discuss that the Homo sapien as it is, is socially dependent for intellectual, spiritual, emotional, and mechanical survival upon interaction with "community". Which means that as we strive to move toward "living off the grid" in order to reconnect with our natural environment, we will either need to adapt to less socially involved lives, or depend more upon our electronic connections.
How do the Amish fit into that postulation? Arguably a more socially involved culture with one another than the rest of us suburbanites, and one that lives off the grid.

In Chouinard's case, he's just living they way we all did in, oh say, 1980 - without a personal computer and without a cell phone. That's the disconnection they discuss in the interview. Sheezuz, if anyone wants to claim that it must be easy for him because he's so damn rich, it's best to consider the hard work he put into business to begin with. In addition to the simple fact the dude is 69 years old and still working . . .

Just because many of us can't stand the pressure of not being attached via wireless gadget to work, doesn't make Chouinard some kind of a rich corporate bastard who has it easy.

[Kermit]

I just find funny that this was posted on a website, all about how much crap you can bolt on to your vehicle.

EDIT: The message I received from the video was to simplify your life, maybe some can't totally turn your backs on being connected, but, hey, maybe turn that damn thing off once and a while, and enjoy the view. ;)

I see his point, we are becoming homogenized, I don't know about you, I personally don't care for what is happening out there.

We have a generation coming up that doesn't know how to do anything with their hands, everything is given to them...how many kids now a days, don't know how to drive a manual transmission? Let alone create/build/fix something with their own hands?

More and more people have eletronic safety nets, how many of you refuse to travel without a GPS and a cell phone? Do yourself a favor and leave that crap at home, hell, don't even take a map on your next outing. How can you personally discover anything when you have a GPS leading you by your nose? Don't hire a guide, don't look at any maps, don't ask anyone for directions...get to the crossroads and flip a coin...yawl catch my drift? One must first get themselves into trouble to learn how to get out of it.

That is what I think, I hear, Yvon is talking about.

[shahram]

How do the Amish fit into that postulation? Arguably a more socially involved culture with one another than the rest of us suburbanites, and one that lives off the grid.

The Amish have made, and continue to make, their share of concessions to the English in order to preserve (or best preserve) their way of life, as demand for low-output, labor-intensive farming has decreased.


In Chouinard's case, he's just living they way we all did in, oh say, 1980 - without a personal computer and without a cell phone. That's the disconnection they discuss in the interview.

You can't compare expectations of today with those of 1980, just as you couldn't compare the expectations of people in 1980 with those of 1953. It is not, by cultural consensus, an unreasonable expectation to be able to communicate with anyone, anywhere, and at anytime. Anyone who says that they can shun technology and electronic communication is either sacrificing in large part their own economic viability, or they engage in some rare sector of business which doesn't require immediate information and is still in demand, or are like Yvon Chouinard, and reap the benefits of an enterprise which they no longer run "hands-on" on a day-to-day basis.


Sheezuz, if anyone wants to claim that it must be easy for him because he's so damn rich, it's best to consider the hard work he put into business to begin with. In addition to the simple fact the dude is 69 years old and still working . . .

He might be working, but he's not running Patagonia. He's consulting, he does a certain amount of PR, but most of his time is spent in leisure. I envy the guy, I really do. Along with hard work, he worked into a "right time, right place" scenario in which his eccentric methods were in demand, and a void in a niche market existed. The days of hand-molded designs and circulated product samples are far gone. Patagonia hasn't been run like the early Pacific Iron Works since the mid-'80s. Friends of mine who worked for Patagonia for years have said that there's very much a "man behind the curtain" problem at Patagonia, and the company is fraught with the same business SNAFUs that come with the territory, and have had to make the same sellout concessions that any business does in order to stay profitable. He can afford to do it his way because his way is done for him.


Just because many of us can't stand the pressure of not being attached via wireless gadget to work, doesn't make Chouinard some kind of a rich corporate bastard who has it easy.

I'm not saying that I disagree with the things he said, and frankly, it's hard to pick on anything he said because he's kind of scatter-brained and all over the place, but I'll say this: if I want to hear some life secret which will be a boon to my modern, stultified suburban life, I want to hear it from one of my peers, some struggling professional with a family and a demanding business and the ties that bind, not a 69 year old multi-millionaire eccentric genius who can afford to point a sailboat towards the sunset when things go pear-shaped. If and when Patagonia ever goes belly up or sells out, I want to hear from the guy who sands glass at Point Blanks eight hours a day. I want to know what impact Chouinard's life philosophies have had on him.

[HMR]

If and when Patagonia ever goes belly up or sells out, I want to hear from the guy who sands glass at Point Blanks eight hours a day. I want to know what impact Chouinard's life philosophies have had on him.Good post, especially the above quote and the "man behind the curtain" issue. No doubt, Chouinard is an eccentric genius who benefited from right time/right place. He went out on a limb charging absurd prices for outdoor wear ($80 for a sweatshirt in the 1980's?!) and it worked perfectly. But I imagine for every Yvon Chouinard who made millions there are 100 other visionaries like Chuck Barfoot who didn't fare as well.

It's funny you used the guy sanding blanks as an example: I was trying to think of other homegrown, successful companies in the area. Al Merrick and Channel Islands was the first thing that popped into my mind. I wonder if Patagonia will one day go a similar direction.

[windy]

I just find funny that this was posted on a website, all about how much crap you can bolt on to your vehicle.

EDIT: The message I received from the video was to simplify your life, maybe some can't totally turn your backs on being connected, but, hey, maybe turn that damn thing off once and a while, and enjoy the view. ;)

I see his point, we are becoming homogenized, I don't know about you, I personally don't care for what is happening out there.

We have a generation coming up that doesn't know how to do anything with their hands, everything is given to them...how many kids now a days, don't know how to drive a manual transmission? Let alone create/build/fix something with their own hands?

More and more people have eletronic safety nets, how many of you refuse to travel without a GPS and a cell phone? Do yourself a favor and leave that crap at home, hell, don't even take a map on your next outing. How can you personally discover anything when you have a GPS leading you by your nose? Don't hire a guide, don't look at any maps, don't ask anyone for directions...get to the crossroads and flip a coin...yawl catch my drift? One must first get themselves into trouble to learn how to get out of it.

That is what I think, I hear, Yvon is talking about.



I like your perspective, Kermit. :iagree:

[grahamfitter]

To add some more fuel to the fire, in 2005 Outside Magazine published an article written by Yvon Chouinard: Let My People Go Surfing (http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200510/yvon-chouinard-1.html).

Cheers,
Graham

[grahamfitter]

I like your perspective, Kermit. :iagree:

Ditto. I have an incurable case of wonder lost.

Cheers,
Graham

[LC/LR4Life]

By the way, a lot of the "disconnectedness" discussed in the interview is about cell phones and computers; modern gadgets and technology. He's not talking about being away from his company at length so he can go play. Chouinard emphasizes getting "your hands dirty" to get the job done, rather than relying on technology or delegation. I suspect that some of us feel the same way about cell phones as he does. While his company is "connected," (It's the way businesses are, he says) he chooses not to stay tied by a blackberry or cell phone.

I first read about Chouinard in a collection of historical accounts of early Yosemite big wall climbs. He forged his own pitons to make incredible first ascents when only a handful of people were climbing in Yosemite - he designed, engineered, built and used the equipment he'd need to ascend a new line on El Cap. Today's climbers waltz into REI and buy what they might need, sometimes on credit.

In my readings, I got the impression that he was a hard working individual with vision. I suspect that's how he's come to have a fabulous group of people working for him. He didn't just wake up one day and have thriving business under his palms. He's a hands-on kind of guy.

I'm not sure if we're about to crucify the guy for having on-the-fringe beliefs while also being highly successful (gee, how lucky for you...), but I thought this was worth saying.


Yeah he developed and marketed the "RURP"... "Realized Ultimate Reality Piton". Not much larger than a postage stamp, good for hammering into very tiny cracks in rock where nothing else will fit. Meant for extreme aid climbing. An early 70's climber named Charlie Porter once climbed a previously unclimbable route on El Cap in where he placed 35 RURPs in a row going up. THIRTY FIVE! Now that's some scary stuff :REAdvRockClimber: :smileeek:

[Kermit]

I want to hear it from one of my peers, some struggling professional with a family and a demanding business and the ties that bind...

You need some new peers...

I think some of you guys & girls are missing the message. Who cares where it is coming from, it still is a good message, whether it be from some self made millionaire or some guy living out of his van in the park.

Try to live simple, you'll be happier. It isn't rocket science, you don't have to be a hippy...you don't have to be rich.

We live simple, we are not rich, we are happy. I have had those "struggling professional" friends chasing that all mighty dollar....man, they were quite annoying, I got me some new peers.

Yes, I need a cell phone for work 5 days a week. My days off and vacation, I turn it off...(hell, most of the time I don't even answer it when it is on.) I take my watch off. I refuse to own a GPS, I rarely look at maps...I rather find my way on my own.

I am not anti-technology...I am anti-abuse of technology. Do you really need to run your mouth all of the time? i.e. talking into that cell phone ALL of the time...(the cell phone while driving is a great example)

Look at new housing..."what shade of beige would you like?" why in the hell do all of the houses look like the other? Hit a button, the garage door opens, you disappear, no interaction with your neighbor....we are becoming homogenized...it is truely sad. Do we really need a Walgreens on every corner?

We are becoming a society of instant gratification...look at people's credit card dept. What ever happened to patiences and saving for the things you want.

Sure this internet thing is a good tool, I have met some great people because of it...but man, turn the ****ing thing off, more often than not. Go watch the moonrise, or the sunset, take your kids for bike ride....it is the simple things in life that matter.

[laurie-the-lorry]

For the most part i think Chouinard is on the button, I admire and respect the man for being outspoken. I didn't get the impression he was lecturing that we should all be disconnected its a way of life he has chosen, not to move with the times in his personal life. As for most of us that is an impossible way of life in this day and age.

He was more pointing out that we should try the alternatives, working hard taking risks, being an explorer and having that feeling inside is what turns it on for me. Yes I love to be without a cell phone signal in off the beaten track places it gives me that feeling of self dependency and the feeling of accomplishment when i return that i did it without the aid of GPS and outside assistance. Like his quote about being pushed and pulled up Everest "He was an arse-hole when he set out and an arse-hole when he returned what did he get from it?" Doing it yourself gives you that feeling. Battling the elements and fixing whats broke. But I sit on the fence a little here. I have and will continue to take a satellite phone to some locations for safety. Its there its a tool and i will use it if i need it. Much like the climbing tools he forged you use them because it makes life easier and safer to a degree. But you could take a helicopter and not bother climbing, and never get that self accomplishment feeling. So for me and i suspect most people on this board I understand were he is coming from a little bit. Otherwise you are viewing the wrong board!

With regard to the Internet.The balancing act is difficult, Having access to the Internet in China India etc.. ect.. Has certainly had a good and reforming effect on millions of lives. The knowledge gained has helped to spur the formation of democracies. And that has to be a good thing.

But It also has a down side, As an example My wife and I spent a couple of year's or so in India working on Leprosy colonies. It was a marvelous time for us. We like most not-for-profits were based near an airport. For us Chennai (Madras) .

Most of the colonies were situated within a days drive of the city. Of course they were, that's were the aid comes from. But we did on many occasion get off the beaten tracks and tackle some nightmare (Meaning great fun for me) Roads. And tracks that took us a couple of days each way and more. There we found a colony that was untouched by outside ideals, They rarely ever saw a motor vehicle and had no electricity or what we would consider utilities (This is only back in 2005). The strange thing was they were remarkably happy, Happier in their demeanor and positive outlook than most westerners i have met. I made a mistake taking a volunteer there once, She took a lap-top. And the kids gathered round looking at the pictures from her home town New York. I could feel the Kid's thinking the grass is greener on the other side of that hill i want to go there. The next time we visited I just went with a member of staff Gopi. And he gave a very good lesson on how bad things can be in the western world without family values. I still wish we had never taken the lap-top. But in the main I think the Internet is a wonderful thing and does a heap more good than harm.

So in my summary i would say that i feel lucky that i have the opportunity to explore the planet at this time, The world has become a smaller place with the ability to travel and experience new cultures without losing touch. (ie:the Internet and cell phones). But I also feel the world is losing something, as Chouinard pointed out we are losing one language a day and our cultures and the way we live are changing in this more homogenized world. And it will get worse or better form whichever stand point you view it. My wife is pregnant, and I fear our child will not have the same opportunities for adventure that we have been offered so were will he?she find that sence of achivment. Maybe the universe!!

[Scott Brady]

I liked the video, but it was interesting to read beyond the words being said. I saw someone very uncomfortable and disinterested - checked out. There was little passion in his message.

Other than the general message of self examination, and some wise words on simplicity, there was little relevance to the common man IMO.

I have the sincerest respect for Yvon's accomplishments in life, but believe that at the end of a great run, the goal is not to "check-out" but to teach. In a way, I think he is trying (with the book and this appearance), but he seems very uncomfortable in his own skin (role), and as a manufacturer.

Only my assessment, which is likely way off... :)

[Jonathan Hanson]

Scott, I know someone who worked with Yvon for a long time and still keeps in touch with him and his wife Melinda. I don't think you're way off at all.

Technological implements are like firearms. They are simply tools, which can be used properly or improperly. It's the person behind the screen or trigger who determines the end result, good or evil.

Roseann and I are well-connected out here via satellite internet and antenna-boosted cell phone. I read the news every morning because I feel it is my duty as a human and a U.S. citizen to know what's going on in the world. Then I turn it off and go outside - very simple. The idea that mere possession of these things makes you a slave to them betrays very weak willpower, I think. Like the idea that owning a gun will make you a criminal.

Simplification on an individual basis is a good thing. I have never - never - heard anyone who has done so pine about what he left behind. And yet as a species we must keep learning, advancing, and exploring. That drive is the only thing that truly makes us human. I admire the Amish for their dedication to a community-wide system of simplicity, but let's be honest: If our entire society was like they are, we would not have reached the moon, or the poles, or the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

[HMR]

I admire the Amish for their dedication to a community-wide system of simplicity, but let's be honest: If our entire society was like they are, we would not have reached the moon, or the poles, or the bottom of the Marianas Trench.Good point. Plus we'd all be speaking German.;)