Portals under a Expedition Defender

[Oilworker]

Hi,

has anyone already installed portals under his/her Defender and used them on expeditions?
I am planing 2 expeditions for 2008 where I need the hight under my diff and as I am no friend of 38"+ tyres it's probably the only way of getting the ground-clearance.

Thanx, Robert

[Wanderlusty]

Don't know of any Defenders on here that have done portals, but here is some info on an 80 series LC that used Volvo portals. Perhaps a start.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=953

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1803

They seem a better fit for that size vehicle, and I think the Defender is comparably sized, than, say, a Unimog portal axle.

Hope you can find what you need, or that someone more knowledgeable chimes in.

[Mercedesrover]

A friend of mine has a set of Volvos under his 88" Series III. Very cool looking and good off-road, but not what I would call an "expedition" vehicle. Top speed is about 40-45 and it's very unstable at speed. Keep in mind how short the wheel-base is you're dealing with.

It can be done and would work well if your trips are ALL off-road and at slow speeds. Consider it a trailer queen other than that.

jim

[Oilworker]

Thanx.

I want to install Volvo Portals under my 110SW

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/637272.jpg

I wont accept a max speed of 45mph. I will do a lot of offroad driving and with some load as well. My prefered max speed would be 70mph.

The current weight is 2478kg with a 100l diesel and a case of spares.

Thanx, Robert

[Scott Brady]

I am more interested in the expeditions... :)

Please tell us more, and how we can help.

[TeriAnn]

Hi,
has anyone already installed portals under his/her Defender and used them on expeditions?
I am planing 2 expeditions for 2008 where I need the hight under my diff and as I am no friend of 38"+ tyres it's probably the only way of getting the ground-clearance.


Volvo C303 portal axles will likely be the easiest to fit, but they will require a lot of engineering and fabrication.

It might be cheaper just to buy and drive a Volvo C303 or a bigger MOG. Everything is already engineered and tested and both are very capable vehicle types.

[Mercedesrover]

I don't know any portal-axle truck, engineered of fabricated, that will take you down the road at 70mph. 55, maybe, but it would be a scary ride.

[kodiak1232003]

x2 on the expo information..what kind of trip makes you think you'll need portals, as i've seen defenders do well in pretty much any terrain...

mebbe put your money into good lockers, wading mods, a front and rear winch and an upgraded charging system.

that setup has gotten lots of folks through lots of terrain...

now if you're thinking iceland with its snow,ice and slushy ashfall, flotation tires are the way to go. there is very little resistance and therefore very little strain on your parts, if your tires are big enough to just float.

narrow(or even wide) 35-37's are WAAY too small for that type of terrain even with clearance.

look on youtube for some vids of trucks with 35's going through iceland. i'll bet it's the trucks with 38-44" float tires that are pulling them out..haha

[Funrover]

have you looked at portal_tek? they have some nice options!

But I am also curious about where you are going!?!?!?!

[david despain]

you could look to maxi-drive in australia for drop boxes, but they are not cheap either.
greg davis has a volvo portals under a DII. i think that build is on pirate somewhere.

but the i think old saying about "if you have to ask,...." really applies to this

[Robthebrit]

I don't know any portal-axle truck, engineered of fabricated, that will take you down the road at 70mph. 55, maybe, but it would be a scary ride.

Lots of mogs will do 70 and be safe doing it, there are inherent dangers of doing 70 in a big truck which causes most mog owns to keep it slow, you are more likely to get busted in a big truck.

Many options are available, get a u500, get a 1300L (or other SBU) with a claus overdrive and/or fast axles, get an older round cab diesel with fast axles. Put 365/80r20's on them and most of the these options will do 70mph (u500 is limited to 70), typically power will become an issue before you hit max speed and this can be overcome to a large extent by messing with the engine.

My camper will mechanically do 70 but its normally power limited due to the weight and it brick like shape. I normally do 55 at 2400rpm, this gives good peformance, not bad oil consumption and keeps the noise down. The rev limit is 3000 which puts me at 68.75mph and I don't have the big tires which give another 10% putting me at a possible 76. The oil and fuel consumption will go through the roof.

As for using just axles it a difficult path and there are problems everywhere:

All of the above options are too big and too heavy to put under a defender. The unsprung weight going over washboard will tear the frame apart. Just 4 mog tires and rims will weigh about 1200 pounds, with 2 full axles you can add another 1500-2000 pounds. Have you seen a mogs frame and the size of the components that hold the axles on?

If you use a full mog axle with the brakes then you'll have to run 20 inch rims otherwise you won't clear the calipers, even with 20inch mog rims you only have a fraction of an inch between the caliper and the inner wheel. This will cause major clearance problems especially on the front because mog axles have a really sharp steering angle at full lock.

If you use 404 axles they'll have drum brakes, if you want disks then its a lot of work and a lot of money to convert them. After all that effort you'll probably break them trying to do 70 because they were never made to go that fast and there is only a small amount of oil and minimal cooling surfaces in the hubs.

You'll have most of the same problems with volvo axles although they are smaller and lighter. Ultimately you'll make a good rock crawler and a terrible expedition vehicle.

Rob

[overlander]

I don't know any portal-axle truck, engineered of fabricated, that will take you down the road at 70mph. 55, maybe, but it would be a scary ride.

H1 Hummers are portal, and we did 70 all the time. Thanks to IED's, it's doing less than 70 that gets really scary.

[FourByLand]

http://www.slickrockfabrication.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D90skid


Maybe you can contact these guys and see what they used for this 90.

Please tell more about your plans.

[Schattenjager]

What a GREAT shot! Welcome, by the way, to ExPo!!! :wings:


Thanx.

I want to install Volvo Portals under my 110SW

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/637272.jpg

I wont accept a max speed of 45mph. I will do a lot of offroad driving and with some load as well. My prefered max speed would be 70mph.

The current weight is 2478kg with a 100l diesel and a case of spares.

Thanx, Robert

[laurie-the-lorry]

I am more interested in the expeditions...

Please tell us more, and how we can help.
__________________
Scott Brady
guide@expeditionswest.com
Expeditions West

The trip is for Siberia in The planned Exhibition Section. Personally I am still unsure as to why you would want to add all that weight and expense and complication to head Off on that Journey. Just carrying the parts for the expected breakages would scare the hell out of me. And As you are well aware you already are going to be weighted down with 1500 mile plus range in diesel.

Their are many different options on strengthening the notoriously weak defender Axel's. But these are options I have used for Challenge events not Expeditions. Drive to the trucks limitations as you do on all expeditions and you will be fine.

An alternative however is to put Nissan GR axles on. I Have these on my Tom Cat, giving a Huge Width and massive strength ( As proven many many times in the Paris Dakar) Not a cheap option But pretty bullet proof. And you can link To Range rover Suspension arms. As I did onto My 2002 110 chassis. If you are interested in this as an option I can post some pic's. Its an easy (Ish) Fabrication. And with ARB'S these axles are real real strong.

But they do add weight. Although its a balancing act between weight and strength. If it were me I would Stay With the KISS principle,

[gjackson]

Pics of mog axles under a defender. Makes an awesome trail rig, but expedition use is limited. There is a Series III that has Volvo portals that was used in the Rhino challenge in Kenya. Did quiet well as I recall. No idea on its road performance.

cheers

[OS-Aussie]

There are a number of hybrid axle systems around which have more clearance.

The cheapest is likely a shaved 9" however if you have the money there are hybrids......

Atomic Axles (http://www.overkilleng.com/index3.html)

http://www.oman4x4.com/ju/axle2.jpg

or

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/squirriljeep/wierd20idea20for20a20portal.jpg

These are from a thread on Pirate 4x4
Pirate 4x4 thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397189)

Still have not seen a set in the real world yet however.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I think that Rover is Billster's, the guy who I bought my Michelin XZLs off once upon a time. Frankenrover on Pirate4x4.com. Also has a killer BJ42 Land Cruiser diesel on 35's...

Anyway I have actually participated in an light American expedition by Brian Steen some years ago with his truck on portals... He built his V8 powered FJ55 with C303 portals. It sure looked and wheeled well but even with double overdrive it still had a max speed of about 55. The noise from the overdrives was also unbearable... He built the truck, took an epic 1800 mile trip including through Moab in winter, Kurt Williams and I wheeled with him throughout northern and northwestern Utah. By the time he made it up here frankly he was tired of driving it and I probably drove it for several hundred miles myself... It sure was cool but yes again it was cumbersome... When he got home he decided it was a mistake and promptly took the truck apart. He then purchased a sprung under FJ55 with a Cummins 6AT inline diesel (small indirect inject factory turbo 3.4L diesel -- great smooth engine), on 32's, and used that for all of his further off roading / expedition driving... He installed a ranger overdrive out of the truck into this one and it was great.

Great guy and he became a great friend, he is actually in Kirghistan in the peace corps currently and more or less gave up old Land Cruisers...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=75455
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=131811
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=161505

[Oilworker]

Hi,

could you please give me more infos in that Nissan GR axle option?
Images and whatever you have?
Have you done the conversion yourself?
And I would love to get infos on participating in the Dakar, too...

Oh, in your planning for Syberia, what car were you planning to use and on what tyres were you planning to tackle the north?

Thanx, Robert




I am more interested in the expeditions...

Please tell us more, and how we can help.
__________________
Scott Brady
guide@expeditionswest.com
Expeditions West

The trip is for Siberia in The planned Exhibition Section. Personally I am still unsure as to why you would want to add all that weight and expense and complication to head Off on that Journey. Just carrying the parts for the expected breakages would scare the hell out of me. And As you are well aware you already are going to be weighted down with 1500 mile plus range in diesel.

Their are many different options on strengthening the notoriously weak defender Axel's. But these are options I have used for Challenge events not Expeditions. Drive to the trucks limitations as you do on all expeditions and you will be fine.

An alternative however is to put Nissan GR axles on. I Have these on my Tom Cat, giving a Huge Width and massive strength ( As proven many many times in the Paris Dakar) Not a cheap option But pretty bullet proof. And you can link To Range rover Suspension arms. As I did onto My 2002 110 chassis. If you are interested in this as an option I can post some pic's. Its an easy (Ish) Fabrication. And with ARB'S these axles are real real strong.

But they do add weight. Although its a balancing act between weight and strength. If it were me I would Stay With the KISS principle,

[laurie-the-lorry]

this post may make more sense if you also read the planned expedition section:

Robert

I will post up some picture or the Nissan GR axles tomorrow. I bought them from a Spanish scrap yard off a burnt out 02 Nissan GR and had them shipped to the UK. We rebuilt them completely, they are an awesome axle and good for Challenge events. I particularly wanted the free wheeling hub's which worked well with my remote transfer box on the 110 tomcat (Nemo).

The pictures show my overindulgence with Powder coating. But for me being of simple mind, I sort of color coded everything underneath. And our attention to detail continued in that all the nuts and bolts throughout the whole build on Nemo we converted everything to either 10. or 14 millimeter heads. Ok this as a bit over the top, we eventually relented and accepted a third socket of 19mm. so this reduced the tools required. And i Knew in the dark were i was going and that in the main my ratchet would conquer all.

For Info on the Dakar, what would you like to know? I have never competed. Although we came very close once:-(. I have ran support crew twice. I guess the biggest bit of advice i could possibly give you there is get Sponsors. It costs a bucket load of cash to enter, and compete. It isn't for your every day driver anymore,,, Or for a long while. Its a money game, Big money. With that behind you you are 9 tenths of the way there. I haven't Given up hope, keep the sponsors happy and do the right events and you never know. Maybe for my 2009 campaign. And seriously I am thinking that way now and starting to put my ducks in a row.

Tires were an issue for me in my planning for the the North, I run on Simex, and love them. which is Cool coz they sponsor a bit :-)... But seriously extreme trekker two's are the dogs bolloks. But too aggressive a tread for below -50. Because the freeze factor and cooling period would leave the treads on the ice when I restarted.
We looked at a couple of other products available and I can give you some pointers.

But seriously, I looked at your route again, and the time of year you intend to tackle this trek. In my opinion it is nigh on impossible to cover that ground in January. The temperatures drop below -90 and there are no roads. Only a good team of reindeer with Rudolph up front can get that far north in January.

I was planning on coming down from Magadan in December. Last container ship in before the sea Freeze, and the best time for the ice roads/rivers. I have never heard of anybody venturing further north at that time of year.

If you are going for this in January, I am amazed and intrigued. I wish you well and will follow your progress closely.

As I stated earlier, I think the GR axles are excellent for challenge events, But not something I would consider needed for driving the snow and ice.I really would consider keeping things as tried and tested as possible, And therefore as close to stock. Things break in the cold, And when they do its a nightmare. We did some Pre-testing with Lara a couple of years ago in Norcap Norway. And even small issues became huge problems. I had my Eberspacker heater roof mounted and vented. It had worked fine forever-and then stopped. At -45 we really needed that heater. It was a simple fix, the diesel had frozen in the pick up tube to the motor. I had ran the line in the wrong place up the side of the vehicle so it needed it to be de-thawed and re-routed.. The body isn't willing to turn those spanners in the cold. And all things plastic are too britle.We froze are arse's off for two days. Until I found a nice warm garage to pull into and de-thaw and correct the problem. My point is that if you are going were nobody else travels at way below -60 you have to be Sooooo well prepared. And prepared to get out and fix things When the body isn't willing. You will have no garages, Its cold. Keep things super simple and tried and tested. And drive to the vehicles capabilities. You arn't in a challenge event or competion so Slow and steady is the way.

Quite frankly I think you are mad! In the nicest possible way :-)

Will post axle pic's in the am. They are on my lap -top... So cant attach now.

[dieselcruiserhead]

have you looked at portal_tek? they have some nice options!

But I am also curious about where you are going!?!?!?!

They are unfortunately now out of business...

[Oilworker]

Thanx....and yes I am just a bit mad sometimes....but I love it ;-)

I don't need to get to Cape Schmid this time. For now it's just a 'test'.
I want to experience these conditions, see Sybiria and Mongolia in Winter and hope I make it back in one piece and unfrozen.
If it get's too tough or too cold for me on the route that Ronald is planningto take (he will be heading north in February) I just drive back to Krasnoyarsk and head to Tokyo before returning home.

Cheers, Robert

[cruiseroutfit]

They are unfortunately now out of business...

You sure, I know their website is currently down but they were in business just a couple weeks ago. I got an email from one of them last week, he didn't mention anything?

[laurie-the-lorry]

These are the Nissan Gr Axles, after we had stripped and re-built them. And put the a brand new set of Simex ET two's on them. Sorry I don't have a picture available of them slung onto the one-ten chassis. But it was a very easy Fabrication. But Hellishly Wide. Stable and strong though :-)

[dieselcruiserhead]

You sure, I know their website is currently down but they were in business just a couple weeks ago. I got an email from one of them last week, he didn't mention anything?

That is what I was told by Kaleb... But this was probably over a month ago...??