First post and question [Archive]

STAGE 2

10-31-2007, 10:42 PM

Howdy all. My name is Stage 2 and I'm a toyota addict. :wings:

I'm looking to get a new taco (SR5 extended cab) for a weekend truck/camping vehicle. I don't want anything crazy as I plan on getting one of thoses super cool adventure trailers to handle most of my gear needs. What I do want is a little bit more ground clearance and a beefier truck.

To that end, what I'm looking to do is box the frame, and upgrade the suspension. I'm familiar with old man emu's products and would like to go this route as it seems the easiest. I have several reservations however. First, I'd like to keep the stock stance. From what I've seen the dakar leaf pack gives a severe rake. Second, there are several people on other forums who have experienced vibrations from installing the OME suspension. Unnecessary rattles and things like that really annoy me and I don't think I could handle a new truck doing that.

So with all that out of the way, heres my question(s). Is vibration inevitable with the OME suspension? If so, what other options do I have (other than spacers and cheap fixes) for a quality 1" lift?

Thanks.

Photog

10-31-2007, 11:05 PM

You could use the TRD Tundra springs in the front, and an extra leaf in the rear (not Add-A-Leaf).

Are you speaking of a new Taco, or the smaller ones?

STAGE 2

10-31-2007, 11:19 PM

2007 or later.

HMR

11-01-2007, 12:37 AM

and an extra leaf in the rear (not Add-A-Leaf).What's wrong with the Add a Leaf? Did you have a bad experience?

DaktariEd

11-01-2007, 01:22 AM

Stage2,
Welcome to ExPo.
I haven't the foggiest idea about your question, but just wanted to say "Hi" and "Welcome." :wavey:
Enjoy the forum. :jumping:
It's pretty unique and populated by some very experienced people who are willing to share what they know. I'm always learning stuff here...

http://www.bajataco.com/smileys/safari.gif

Dave

11-01-2007, 01:30 AM

Hello and welcome to the ExPo!

I can't speak for the newer style Tacomas with OME, but I do run an OME suspension on my 2002. The forward rake you speak of is a reality when empty, however, when loaded it does sit perfectly level. The ride quality is great both loaded and unloaded. In my opinion, the ride is firmer and body roll decreases with the OME suspension.

As for vibrations, I have not experienced any increase in any vibrations since I went with the OME suspension.

I've had the suspension for over a year now and I really have no complaints. I use my truck as a daily driver and the weekend escape vehicle.

Overland Hadley

11-01-2007, 01:56 AM

What's wrong with the Add a Leaf? Did you have a bad experience?

+1

Overland Hadley

11-01-2007, 02:00 AM

Also, Welcome to the Portal STAGE2!

STAGE 2

11-01-2007, 05:21 AM

Glad to be here guys. You folks seem like a right nice lot.

As for the question, there's got to be someone here with an 05+ thats running the OME suspension package. In fact, if I recall correctly from my extensive lurking here, the host of this forum had recently tricked out a white taco with ARB suspension and a matching bullbar.

ArmyTaco

11-01-2007, 10:13 AM

Welcome. THe best advise I can give you is check out www.TTORA.com
There is a wide range of knowledge and everything possible has been covered there. Join up and most of all SEARCH. Everything you need to know is there and there is alot of information to be had.

Also what kind of budget are you looking at? From my experience with my previous Taco don't skimp on suspension. Go with full springs all around. No blocks/spacers and it just does not cut it and you wil be redoing it later. Call Alcan Springs and tell them what you want to do with the truck and they can build you a spring made for what YOU want. THey are a little more than Dakars but not much considering you get what you need.

With the front if you don't plan on running a winch/bumper OME is fine. But once you add weight to the springs(especialy ones made for 1-1.5lift) they will sag. If Bumper /winch is in future go with some adj. Coilovers. A nice set of SAW's can be adjusted to what you want and will ride extremely well and can take the weight of Bumper/winch. They are also rebuildable. There are more expensive CO out there but unless you are doing desert running there is really no need to spend the $$$ on the other ones. I had SAW's and absolutely loved them. They bolt in with 4 bolts and easily adjusted. But got check out TTORA and there are tons and tons of topics about this exact question and expieriences from people running spacers and blocks to full out LT Suspension with everything in between. Good luck.

p1michaud

11-01-2007, 12:51 PM

First off, welcome aboard! :wings:

In fact, if I recall correctly from my extensive lurking here, the host of this forum had recently tricked out a white taco with ARB suspension and a matching bullbar.

Close, ARB USA was nice enough to hand the keys over to some very lucky individuals from this forum so that they could test drive it and report on performance. The Tacoma in question was outfitted by ARB USA with all their latest gear.

To that end, what I'm looking to do is box the frame...

I'm currious as to why you feel boxing the frame would be necessary? This requires quite a bit of work. If you will occasionally towing a trailer this is not necessary IMO. If you plan on constantly loading and pulling with the Tacoma that is anothe story, however I would consider anohter vehicle to meet those needs.

...and upgrade the suspension.

If so, what other options do I have (other than spacers and cheap fixes) for a quality 1" lift?

Unfortunately you can't use the words spacers or cheap in the same sentence as quality. Go with quality coilovers up front and replacement leaf packs for the rear and you will be happy. It will cost more up front, but in the long run it will be better. To quote the Dude (http://desertdudefilms.com/): "Buy the best, cry once..."

Regards,
P

Streakerfreak

11-01-2007, 01:20 PM

Schattenjager

11-01-2007, 01:38 PM

:jumping: Welcome to the best adventure forum in webdom!

If you take a look at my signature you will see my mods on an 05. I had three shops check the frame and they said it could be boxed and they would be happy to take my money for it, but it was not necessary. Just an FYI.

I lowered the carrier a little to vanquish the subtle vibs I got at take off from the 3" lift. Otherwise the truck rides GREAT and if given the option of a brand new truck, this would be my very first mod all over again. I have a topper, so I cannot answer your rake question as I had none. But with the topper, my tubby 100 pound German Shepherd and his gear, it never sags either.

The IFS of these Tacomas is a major limitation. As soon as I get a trailer built and have the $ - I am going to do a single axle swap. It's a lot of money, but these new Tacomas are the perfect size and have the right equipment level that I would rather mod it some more than to give all I love up for something else. - All this from an ex-Land Rover guy.

Cheers!

crawler#976

11-01-2007, 01:44 PM

We have an '05 Tacoma setup with the DeMello/Donahoe Stage 1 kit. The 2.50 inch increase in ride height is more than made up for in the stability of the Donahoe coilovers. In fact, the truck handles more like a sports car now than it ever did with the stock suspension. On dirt, the combination of Bilstein 5100 rear shocks and Deaver add-a-leaves have eliminated the chatter and tendency for the rear to get loose on washboard roads. The front end sucks up bumps with ease - exactly what you'd expect from a coilover bread for and tested in the Baja 1000.

There is no vibration in the drive train with the D/D setup.

IMO, boxing the frame is a waste of time and money. Spend the $$$ on other improvements.

As far as "easy" goes, installing the coilovers and AAL took me 4 hours at a leisurely pace. I do have air tools which helps, but none the less, it's beyond easy...

Mark

taco chaser

11-01-2007, 03:00 PM

taco chaser

11-01-2007, 03:02 PM

Welcome to the portal.

grouch

11-01-2007, 03:18 PM

Welcome brotha! I would avoid TTORA unless you want like your spirit pulled down and spanked. Seriously, that place has a black cloud hanging over it that sticks with you for days. All you need is right here! OME would work just fine, just ask Don aka Schattenjager. The Demello set up works great, I have it on my 03 but couldn't really say for the newer models. I debated long and hard between OME and the Donahoe/Deaver thing and I went the later strickly because the OME Dakars would have lifted my rear too much for the weight I tend to carry. I was also wanting to get rid of the overload leaf. I an happy with my set up, wouldn't change a thing. Seriously, it handles better than my 91 CRX used to and I can jump it farther!

Jacket

11-01-2007, 03:26 PM

The vibrations are not specific to any particular brand of suspension. If you lift your truck, odds are that you will get some sort of minor driveline vibration. That's not to say everyone gets it, but I think it's fair to say that most do. If you keep the lift at 2" or lower, you can reduce/eliminate it. Others have tried different sized shims for the rear leafs, as well as a swap to a single rear drive shaft. The results continue to be mixed though.

The OME setup is nice; I liked my 885 coils that I ran previously with a stock front end. I upgraded to the 886's when I got my ARB and winch, and it's stiffened the front end a bit, but it is still good. Definitely spend the money on the OME Nitrocharger shocks if you go that route. For the rear spring pack, you could consider removing one of the overload leafs (the Dakars have 2 IIRC) to reduce the amount of lift, but still get the ride benefits. And if you plan on running a trailer, you might not miss any payload loss.

Good luck. Lots of really nicely built 05+ trucks on this board!

Schattenjager

11-01-2007, 03:28 PM

Let me know how the straight axle swap goes, I'm going to be doing a solid axle swap on an 06 Tacoma by spring time if all goes well.

10-4 ! This will be a late winter / early spring project if all goes well. It is, after all, a matter of money. And research. Did I mention money???

Photog

11-01-2007, 05:17 PM

What's wrong with the Add a Leaf? Did you have a bad experience?

I looked on the internet, for the items that used to be called "Add-A-Leaf". It was a trade name for a glorified lift block. They were 3/4" thick, and looked like a stubby overload spring. Worthless!

I was not able to find them today (thank God). Most of the items that came up as "add a leaf" are full length springs, to add into your existing spring pack. This IS the type of mod I was suggesting. :jumping:

Folks are suggesting the Coilover fronts and Deaver rear springs. These are definitely great suggestions; but if you just need a little lift, and stiffness to support a little more weight, this is quite expensive.

THat is why I suggested the Tundra TRD springs. THey are a little longer, and designed for a little more weight (front). The rear springs are a toss up. If you want a little lift, and the ability to carry more weight, you will have to make some decisions. If you want it to ride soft when unloaded, and carry a load without bottoming out, you will have a raked rear end. If you want it level at all load levels, you will need a very strong spring-rate, and it will ride very rough when unloaded.

tacollie

11-01-2007, 05:46 PM

I just went to RaceRunner coilovers and Alcan custom leafs from a complete OME front and rear. The OME was great. The coilovers are amazing. Both are great, but if you want to drive a much faster over wash board and rough roads go for the coilovers. That aside, the biggest improvement is their ability to hold the weight over the OME. I would totally run OME if I planned on keeping my truck a much lighter.

taco chaser

11-01-2007, 05:49 PM

10-4 ! This will be a late winter / early spring project if all goes well. It is, after all, a matter of money. And research. Did I mention money???
Money and Tools and more money always. I will be designing and fab'n the front crossmember and the rear shackle flip soon, the rear first so I can get rid of his lift blocks. So maybe I can help you save some money in those areas to start.

DenCo40

11-01-2007, 07:29 PM

Welcome!!!!

Schattenjager

11-01-2007, 08:22 PM

Me again -

Brian is right on the money re: the Tundra springs being a little stiffer. However, I would suggest you compare spring rates before you add any spring and then hang some heavy accessories like a bumper, which inevitably leads to a winch, lights, recovery points etc. Look and see what rate springs others are using with accessories you are likely to use for comparison.

I have no experience with coil overs offered for the Tacomas, but in my experience with upgrading older Porsches, the adjustments WILL in fact freeze up to corrosion and sometimes the adjustments you made will not last if you are fully expressing the range of articulation in the suspension. They are spendy too...

Schattenjager

11-01-2007, 08:23 PM

Money and Tools and more money always. I will be designing and fab'n the front crossmember and the rear shackle flip soon, the rear first so I can get rid of his lift blocks. So maybe I can help you save some money in those areas to start.

*sniff* your the greatest, dude!!! *sniff*

STAGE 2

11-01-2007, 08:29 PM

Wow... thanks for all the responses guys.

Its funny that some of you mention TTORA because I'm a member there and thats the reason I came here. Apparently asking questions over there is verboten.

So from what I've heard so far, there is a real possibility of driveline vibrations from going with the OME setup.

If so, it seems my only option is with coilovers and a custom leaf pack. I was kind of trying to stay away from coilovers as they (rightly or wrongly) seem a litle finniky for my tastes. I also don't want to give up any payload capacity in the rear or have a mushy sand cruiser, which is what coilovers seem to give.

Do you folks think that driveline issues would be as prevalent with say an OME front suspension and a custom leaf pack that doesn't jack up the rear as much?

crawler#976

11-01-2007, 08:58 PM

...or have a mushy sand cruiser, which is what coilovers seem to give.

Quite the contrary, the ride is much firmer than stock, firm enough to eliminate the sway bar and still have less body roll. The pavement handling is much "sportier", the off highway ride excellent...

Photog

11-01-2007, 09:46 PM

The vibrations will start, when you reach a certain amount of lift, regardless of how you get there.

One of the previous replies modified the tranny cross member, to improve the driveshaft angle. Others have cahnged the axle angle, with wedge shims.

Theoretically; if you can retain the same axle angle, there should be no vibrations. You are not lifting it above the u-joint's abilities. Sometimes the rear axle is rotated because of the lift. It has to do with the way the springs are curved, and the length of the shackles. Measure the angle of the rear axle before installing the lift, and after. If it is not the same, add a wedge-shim to correct it.

The OME springs are definitely stiffer than stock. You may find you no longer need the sway bar. You may also find you want to carry a little more weight, on a regular basis, to soften the ride.

Streakerfreak

11-01-2007, 09:48 PM

Quite the contrary, the ride is much firmer than stock, firm enough to eliminate the sway bar and still have less body roll. The pavement handling is much "sportier", the off highway ride excellent...

Right on. My Tacoma rides even better with Camburg 2.5 (Saws) coilovers and alcan custom leafs then it ever did stock, on pavement and off-road. They are wonderful. They are a good investment. Plus they were very easy to install. Took me an hour tops.

Yeah many of us came to this site through TTORA. You will find this forum much more excepting. Very rarely someone will yell "NOOB" at you on here for asking a question. Try asking this question on TTORA.:rolleyes:

STAGE 2

11-01-2007, 10:02 PM

Right on. My Tacoma rides even better with Camburg 2.5 (Saws) coilovers and alcan custom leafs then it ever did stock, on pavement and off-road. They are wonderful. They are a good investment. Plus they were very easy to install. Took me an hour tops.

Do you have any driveline problems?

Yeah many of us came to this site through TTORA. You will find this forum much more excepting. Very rarely someone will yell "NOOB" at you on here for asking a question. Try asking this question on TTORA.:rolleyes:

Yup.

tacollie

11-01-2007, 10:40 PM

I run the racerunners and they are a huge improvement in the rocks. My OME didn't like it when I removed the sway bar. It caused the front end to drop hard in technical terrain. SAWs fixed that. I have not tried Tundra coilovers, but if your rig is going to be heavier than stock I would highly recommend a good set of coilovers.

Streakerfreak

11-01-2007, 10:43 PM

Do you have any driveline problems?

Let's just say the 2.5 has not caused any problems large enough to matter or that is noticable. I don't know if that helps at all.

As far as ride quality, I have no vibrations.

crawler#976

11-01-2007, 11:05 PM

No drive line problem with our setup - and that's been 14K ago. That includes some easy wheelin - trails like Broken Arrow in Sedona, and many miles of dirt forest roads.

Schattenjager

11-01-2007, 11:08 PM

... You will find this forum much more excepting. Very rarely someone will yell "NOOB" at you on here for asking a question. Try asking this question on TTORA.:rolleyes:

You know, I do not recall anyone ever having a disparaging word for a question, no matter how often it is repeated. We are here to help you, and in turn, you can help us too!

Scott does a great job of guiding this forum down the straight and narrow. The membership here is well above average for the most part. (Your humble scribe an exception.) When you need a booster, you can always check this forum and find something cool, fun, and often, educational.

STAGE 2

11-02-2007, 12:12 AM

No drive line problem with our setup - and that's been 14K ago. That includes some easy wheelin - trails like Broken Arrow in Sedona, and many miles of dirt forest roads.

What are you running?

grouch

11-02-2007, 12:21 AM

If you can swing the money I would seriously vote for coil-overs. They are just so much more versital as you can change the hight and preload for your need. I was worried about them being finicky but they are a set and forget thing. If I decide to add a winch and a bumper, I can add some preload to compensate.

Another plus about going this route is you give up nothing in the rear spring department. OME's are great stuff but they have their limits as they are designed for a broad range of use. Deaver and Alcan are custom packs that you can have done for your needs. You can actually carry more weight with a fancy set of Deavers than you could with the OME if you get the right set of Deavers. OME has only one option where the Deavers you can get as many leaves as needed for your set up and still have incredible flex. I think my Deavers were a pair of Chinese acrobats in a former life, these puppies flex like crazy! I am not knocking anything, certainly not OME. They make great stuff, it's just that there is more to the Donahoe/Deaver set up then what other forums would lead you to believe. They are not just for going fast in the desert, they are a lot more versital than that! That whole race aspect of the suspension turned me off for the longest time and I finally gave in to the dark side and wouldn't go back. That being said, I love to be able to crash through thing I used to have to milk it over. I won't even mention the washboards, they get REAL smooth around 50-60!

gearbox

11-02-2007, 02:16 AM

Do you folks think that driveline issues would be as prevalent with say an OME front suspension and a custom leaf pack that doesn't jack up the rear as much?
I'm not lifted yet, but from reading dozens of threads on TTORA I am hearing that it is impossible to tell if you'll have DL vibes until after you lift the truck. One guy spent hundred of dollars to shim and reshim, get a one-piece drive-shaft, etc.. and eventually went back to 0" lift. Others have a full 2.5 or 3" lift with no problem. If you have vibes you can use a $9 carrier-bearing drop spacer kit and shim the axle roll angle from 1 degree to 4 degrees or whatever works. You can get a Tom Wood solid DS also. It's kinda ridiculous, but that's life.

STAGE 2

11-02-2007, 03:37 AM

I'm not lifted yet, but from reading dozens of threads on TTORA I am hearing that it is impossible to tell if you'll have DL vibes until after you lift the truck. One guy spent hundred of dollars to shim and reshim, get a one-piece drive-shaft, etc.. and eventually went back to 0" lift. Others have a full 2.5 or 3" lift with no problem. If you have vibes you can use a $9 carrier-bearing drop spacer kit and shim the axle roll angle from 1 degree to 4 degrees or whatever works. You can get a Tom Wood solid DS also. It's kinda ridiculous, but that's life.

Why do you think that is? If people are installing the same lifts on the same truck, why wouldn't the problem either be there consistently or not be there at all.

Schattenjager

11-02-2007, 04:53 AM

One must always consider the source, grasshopper...

:ylsmoke:

STAGE 2

11-02-2007, 07:51 AM

Schattenjager,

Are you still running those 235/85/16 BFG's? If so, how do you like them and did you have any issues with rubbing with your stock suspension?

This might be my cheap fix for a little more clearance for the time being.

Schattenjager

11-02-2007, 01:45 PM

crawler#976

11-02-2007, 02:40 PM

What are you running?

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123668&postcount=14 :wings:

..and 265/75-16 MT/R's on MB Rockers. With the wheel offset change I had to do some minor trimming on plastic both in front of the tire and behind the tire to get clearance at full stuff, full lock. With stock rims, there were no rubbing problems w/ the same tire and no lift.

Mark

ArmyTaco

11-02-2007, 02:44 PM

Didn't mean to say the unsayable and say..... Anyway I was just suggesting to search the forums not hang out in them..lol. There is so many people with different set ups it would be hard pressed not to find info on them. I came from TTORA to this sight, and this one is much cooler in all ways..but there stil is a ton of info in that black hole.

Streakerfreak

11-02-2007, 07:17 PM

One must always consider the source, grasshopper...

:ylsmoke:

Bingo, when on a larger site like TTORA you have a lot of information you just need to take with a grain of salt.

STAGE 2

11-02-2007, 08:27 PM

I put the 235's on a totally stock 2005 Tacoma with no issues. I even ventured off road a little and had no rubbing etc. The 235's are only offered in the AT's by BFG. I have put 25K+ miles on them in five months and they are wearing like iron. They do not follow every groove in the road. are 31.7 inches tall new, and work fine with the stock gearing.

Got mine at Costo - best deal I could find in Alaska...

Dude, you rock!!! I think you just solved my problem. The wife doesn't quite understand the concept of replacing parts on a new truck, especially when its upwards of 2k. Ths will give me the lift I want without the headache, and its uber cheap. WOOOHOOO!!!

You wouldn't happen to have any side shots of your truck before the new suspension. I did some searching and saw a couple of front and angle shots (great looking truck) but couldn't find any side ones.

grouch

11-02-2007, 11:54 PM

Ask and you shall recieve... http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=66023&postcount=7

I just stuck a set on mine but it is lifted so that doesn't help you much. I was worried about the 10 ply tires on a light truck but after about 150 miles of mostly on road but a little off I can tell you that you can't tell a thing. These tires should wear like iron. Another cool thing is they are only $140 a pop!