New Adventure Trailer + Story Pt 2 of 3

[TheMike]

Continued from Part 1 (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9112)....

Every group we passed wanted to check out the trailer.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0938.jpg

This is where things got interesting. If you know of the White Rim you are probably wondering how on earth anything weird can happen there. Well a fluke really.

In the middle of nowhere was a puddle of water/mud right in the center of the trail. Most were going around it since it would be a real sticky, throw everything around, kind of mud. I went around the puddle on the left side. There was maybe a 6-8” incline on the side of the road that the Jeep and trailer were going to ride on to go around the mud. The Jeep went around then the trailer followed. In the center of this small incline was a bolder. When the left trailer tire hit this bolder it bounced the trailer over on it’s side in a right tumble.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0977.jpg

We tried to roll it back over manually but 2100 lbs all pivoting on one tire proved too hard for us men!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0980.jpg

We used a synthetic winch line to wrap the trailer and pull it on its wheels. You can also see the bolder that the left tire hit. Also note that the trailer didn’t roll forward after it started to roll over. Even though I was driving very slowly forward it flipped real fast!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0983.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0986.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0988.jpg

Nothing inside the trailer seemed to move at all. I am pointing to the cooler in the left rear that leaked when it was inverted. After the fender impacted the ground the tent then took the full weight. As a result of this:

Damages:

Right fender got tweaked a bit.
The riser support brackets for the rack got pushed/bent toward drivers side.
The rack rails on the top of the roof were pulled and bent by the riser brackets.
Lid is a tad pulled as a result of the riser/rail getting pulled.
Tent cover got one scrape/hole in the front upper corner.

Not Damaged:

Trailer Tub
Lights
Tent

We were back on the trail within a minute or two of righting and checking the trailer over. The rest of the Maob part of the trip went great.

On the way home though was another story. The left wheel bearing ate itself. $100 and 160 miles later it was as good as new.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM1083.jpg

After getting home 4 hours late, cleaning up the “loaner”, the Jeep, and the gear, and waiting for a week, my trailer was ready to ship to me.

There was nothing lacking in the “loaner” trailer. It was an earlier design and since the trailers have been upgraded and improved though. These items aren’t on the company web site but was rather emailed to me by Mario (AT President).

1- Upgrade to Paint Locked surface treated sheet metal body panels vs. conventional cold rolled sheet
2- Improved air spring mounts with lengthened gussets and ¼” steel vs. 3/16” steel
3- One piece tailgate frame vs. four piece
4- 10 gauge battery charge wiring vs. 14 gauge
5- Rancho RS 9000 shocks with .710 thick piston rod vs. the Rancho RSX with a .625 thick piston rod
6- Waterproof electrical butt splice connectors used on tail light and brake wiring vs. conventional insulated butt splices
7- Trailing arm pivot rod mounting plates thickened to 3/8” vs. ¼”
8- New proprietary camber and toe in adjustment feature vs. none
9- Pivot rod material changed to 165,000 psi Stress Proof steel vs. 85,000 psi cold rolled steel.
10- Lid bulb seal upgraded from 5/8” x 3/8” to 7/8” x ½”
11- Rivets upgraded from aluminum to stainless steel
12- Lock and Roll coupler is zinc plated for corrosion rather than painted
13- Neoprene is now used between the fender and body to reduce coating abrasion from grit
14- Roof rack system has been upgraded from Surco to the Thule product line with nationally available accessories

Lots of little things that make a huge difference in the durability of the product. Anyway, I am not the most patient of individuals so I was constantly calling Mario about updates and such on my trailer. He was happy to send me pics of my trailer in the build and ship process.

Frame/suspension wiring was first to be done

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/New%20Chaser%20as%20Delivered/P1010042.jpg

Now the body assembly

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/New%20Chaser%20as%20Delivered/P1010046.jpg

Just about done

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/New%20Chaser%20as%20Delivered/P1010040.jpg

On to part 3 (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9114)...

[Martyn]

It's was interesting that Mike's bearing failure was very unusual in that it the hub itself failed. This is very uncommon in comparison to "normal" bearing failures where the hub is intact and the bearing and race completely disintegrate.

In Mike's case it looks like the hub failure caused the bearing to go.

The trailer Mike was borrowing was from an early production run. We have since changed all of our hubs and spindles to US made Dexter components as all steel is not made equal.

[TheMike]

Hey Martyn. Thanks for filling that part in. I wanted to elaborate without going too far into things. I guess I should have said that the mechanical issue had no part to do with your construction or build. Sorry you had to fill in those blanks.

Boring read huh since you have seen all those pics and read the stroy before. :)

Mike

[cruiseroutfit]

So how was the phone call to Martyn :D

Great writeup :cool:

[Andrew Walcker]

So how was the phone call to Martyn :D


Which call, the, "Martyn, I was just driving along and the trailer flopped over" or the, "Martyn, I was just driving along and the hub broke"? :shakin:

Mike, great looking trip and congrads on the new AT. Martyn and Company are the finest guys around and build a great product to boot!

[Martyn]

When ever Mike calls you know it's going to be an interesting call !!

The first call made that falling feeling in my stomach. Not so much that Mike had rolled the trailer (and he seemed very proud of it !!! :) ), but that the trailer belonged to Clint, one of our company reps. A sort of "How do I explain this to Clint feeling."

The second call on the bearing failure was more surprising as Clint is very proactive in his maintenance and this is usually something that happens to people who forget to grease the bearings for a couple of years.

What really amazed me was I made a single call to our shop and they gave me all the parts needed for repair plus cross references for all the parts numbers.

Mike won't admit it but I think he really enjoyed the adrenaline rush he got from the roll over and bearing failure. It broadens his story telling capacity around the fire.

[ntsqd]

"You have to have experiences like these in order to have good campfire stories."
-- BilliJo Garcia to the ~1/2 dozen sub-tweeners with her in the out of fuel boat drifting down the Sacramento River Shipping lane.......

[TheMike]

"You have to have experiences like these in order to have good campfire stories."
-- BilliJo Garcia to the ~1/2 dozen sub-tweeners with her in the out of fuel boat drifting down the Sacramento River Shipping lane.......Kind of why I wanted to share the experience with others - as well as promote a great product!

[TheMike]

Oh, come on now Martyn. You are going to give people the wrong idea about me. I definitely wasn't proud of the roll and the adrenalin rush was more of a realistic concern of me figuring out how to get the trailer back home 170 miles from the end of a 3 week adventure (not to mention getting it back to Clint). I had to be to work in 4 hours and we were 75 miles away from the nearest place that MIGHT have parts (back the way we came). You do the math and the timing.

Not that it matters now, theatrics aside, I only made one call that covered both events. I just happened to mention the roll in the same conversation as asking for assistance on the hub. I knew the trailer didn't belong to you so there wasn't much need to at the time. It just sort of came out as I summarized the excitement of the moment as it overflowed to the other events of the trip. Alot in a short period of time. I wouldn't change any of it.....ok...maybe I would miss that rock and go throught the mud :)

I know that you install nothing but the best parts. I was concerned at the time of the hub failure that the hub was a specialized component for your trailers and I was more than a litte concern of spindle damage. I know now that you strive for the best OFF THE SHELF parts so finding replacements is just a matter of going to the correct parts vendor. The damn trailer is so stout I never thought that going to a trailer supply store for something like a hub was the correct remedy.

To your credit, it's only been exactly 4 months from the very 1st phone call to you on starting the purchase process to today. In that time I went back and forth on color choices, added/removed options many times, asked more questions than I am sure Mario wanted to deal with, got the "rental" trailer, had it in my posession for a month for 3 great trips, returned it to Clint, then got mine delivered to me.

I am rambling now. I know there is no shortage of compliments and good words about what Mario and Martyn put out at Adventure Trailers. I really just wanted to share my experiences so far. All good from them even when it's my bad!

[Martyn]

Mike

I went back and edited my original post and added a smiley face. My humor was lost in the type face :)

[cruiseroutfit]

Good times and better stories, I'm glad it faired out well :D

Mike did you try telling him the wind blew it over? :chowtime:

[TheMike]

No but there were 4 Toyotas that were behind me that watched it flip. They said I couldn't do that agian if I tried (they don't know me very well) and thought it was the best sales idea yet. Tell AT I flipped it but propably sold 4 units because of it. I am sure they were all talk. Hey Martyn....I want a kick back if they do buy. I haven't received the repair bill yet from Clint so I might need some help :)

[SAR_Squid79]

This is where things got interesting. If you know of the White Rim you are probably wondering how on earth anything weird can happen there. Well a fluke really.

In the middle of nowhere was a puddle of water/mud right in the center of the trail. Most were going around it ... There was maybe a 6-8” incline on the side of the road that the Jeep and trailer were going to ride on to go around the mud. The Jeep went around then the trailer followed. In the center of this small incline was a bolder. When the left trailer tire hit this bolder it bounced the trailer over on it’s side in a right tumble.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/MVandG/HPIM0977.jpg



Maybe that's why you're not supposed to drive around puddles on White Rim Trail. TREAD LIGHTLY, BUTTHOLE! :D

[TheMike]

What did you do, sign up just to give me crap? I'm flattered. :coffeedrink:

[MichaelW]

Although I agree with the whole stay on the trail concept and how people that are not doing so are giving ammo to those that want to close our trails, especially in Moab..... And that this was a good point to bring up.....

However....

I have another question as it pertains to this.

I too am having a trailer built and I really, really thought long and hard and gave serious consideration to Adventure Trailers but I have to ask. What is the side hill angle that an unladen AT trailer will flip? I say unladen as obviously someone loading cotton on the bottom and lead bricks on top will really mess with this equation. But it seems to me and I don't know how deep the hole was but this wasn't that much of an angle and certainly not one I'd expect to flip a trailer.

And yes I know that any trailer can flip and I'm just asking a question. Is it the narrow track width or ??? I realize that this is a drawback to any off road trailer as we are using a design to get as much ground clearance as possible and sacrificing some stability in doing so.

I know when I get my trailer I will use a fork lift to find at what angle it wants to flip over as many of the trails I run have some pretty good side hills and it would be good to know in advance when to expect to be putting the trailer back on its wheels.

[TheMike]

Hey Michael. I saw what you are building and wow. I wish I had your tallent and time.

As far as the trailer flipping, completely my fault. You should always load the heaviest things on the bottom and a 60/40 split forward/rear. Unfortunately, between the rock strategically placed, and me not loading it very well, all the correct elements were in place for it to flip over. It literally bounced over itself when it hit that rock on that angle. I had storage containers covering the entire bottom of the trailer and therefore had to put some heavy thing on top of them. Up until I flipped it I was more concerned about things shifting and chaffing while on hundreds of miles of offroad trails we were doing. Things were snug and didn’t move, even when flipped. Oh yea, I was aired down to 15psi too.

So with that being said, to answer your question, sort of, it depends. The trailer stands about the same width as my 06 Rubi (about 60" center of tire to center of tire - rough and quick measurment). I am running 35's all around. The loaner was running 33's. I am also running the RELA 5.5 so the bottom of my rear receiver in the bumper (w/no body lift) is 27". The trailer is about 26 when the airbags are properly inflated. With the coupler installed everything is perfectly level with one another.

The trailer is high with my setup. Even more important then is to load it properly. Unloaded I have no idea how far it would go before flopping. the tent on the roof weighs 145lbs complete. Add the roof rack/bars and now maybe 160lbs. I mentioned somewhere that I believe my trailer empty is about 1200lbs. I will find out soon enough as there is a scale close by.

The new trailers are coming with Rancho RS9000 shocks so dial in your preferences for road/loads. Completely up to you. That might or might not help.

[MichaelW]

Ok, that makes more sense now that you explained it more. So this was a loading and bouncing more than just a leaning. Thanks!

I will admit that the trailer seemed to survive pretty much unscathed. I do like the AT amenities.

I have a friend that recently did somewhat the same thing on the Rubicon with his custom built trailer. The trail was pretty much flat where he flipped his. It was just all the laws of physics and a little bit of Murphy that came into to play and next thing you know it's trailer recovery time.

Good stories!

Oh, and I too wish I had the time to build my own trailer. But alas like most of us I conceded that surely someone else has a little more skill and a lot more time. Although I am working on my welding skills and would love to have built my own this time I'll just stick to the idea and concept parts. LOL.

I hope that one day we can share a campfire together and admire each others equipment and swap some funny stories. :camping:

[Martyn]

Although I agree with the whole stay on the trail concept and how people that are not doing so are giving ammo to those that want to close our trails, especially in Moab..... And that this was a good point to bring up.....

However....

I have another question as it pertains to this.

I too am having a trailer built and I really, really thought long and hard and gave serious consideration to Adventure Trailers but I have to ask. What is the side hill angle that an unladen AT trailer will flip? I say unladen as obviously someone loading cotton on the bottom and lead bricks on top will really mess with this equation. But it seems to me and I don't know how deep the hole was but this wasn't that much of an angle and certainly not one I'd expect to flip a trailer.

And yes I know that any trailer can flip and I'm just asking a question. Is it the narrow track width or ??? I realize that this is a drawback to any off road trailer as we are using a design to get as much ground clearance as possible and sacrificing some stability in doing so.

I know when I get my trailer I will use a fork lift to find at what angle it wants to flip over as many of the trails I run have some pretty good side hills and it would be good to know in advance when to expect to be putting the trailer back on its wheels.

A Difficult question to answer because there are so many variables. As mentioned there is the Center of Mass which is dependant on how the trailer is loaded, air bag inflation, tire inflation, speed, momentum, tire size, driving and towing style.

A useful article on the subject is in our resource library http://www.atreport.com/towingguide.html it was written by Doug Williams. Doug is an extremely competent driver and what I think separates him from the pack is the smoothness with which he drives.

[MichaelW]

Thanks Martyn! That was a good write up and the videos were nice too! It was good to see Chris Velasco from the former Nth's face. :D

I have a question that maybe you can help with. I am going to be using your same 3 point hitch and it seems as though there was a lot of spotter line action. I am curious if something like a limited slip styled clutch pack be used in the roll axis of your hitch would help reduce some of the need for as much spotter line yet still maintain the level and degree of roll angle?

Also another thought I had after seeing the videos, I think I will be wanting to mount my Hi-Lift, horizontally and on top of the trailer tub. That way you could use it without the need to remove it to flip you back over after a roll. And the same jack could be used to pull you over using a snatch block coming from jack extended to compressed.

And of course the other thought being, why not just include as an option a small ATV winch, fed out the bottom of the tongue area via a roller fairlead and operate off of the reserve deep cycle batteries that most of us with trailers will already have?

Here is an example of my style of driving and other than the last drop, I would thing that any trailer should be able to go with me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePPmRCIgKY). ;) So hopefully I won't have to learn too much as I'm old and you know what they say about old dogs. ;)

[Martyn]

Michael

A few thoughts. Rolling a trailer is an uncommon event, when you consider all the miles of off road terrain that the owners cover. I know people will tell me otherwise, but when one does roll everyone remembers it and retells the tail around the campfire :REOutCampFire03:

So an isolated incidence becomes a legend. Stories are not told about the uneventful hours on the trail when all you did was breath dirt!!

People won't like me for saying this, so apologies up front my friends :) , but roll overs are primarily caused by driver error. And to add insult to injury they usually occur in easy terrain or flat terrain, at about the time everyone has just realized, let their guard down, increased the speed, and dare I say it "forgot" they were towing a trailer. The mantra is "You now have 3 axles!".

The rotational coupler should allow the trailer to roll when and if it needs to roll. I know of a few cases where if the trailer hadn't rolled it would have taken the vehicle with it.

[TheMike]

but roll overs are primarily caused by driver error. And to add insult to injury they usually occur in easy terrain or flat terrain, at about the time everyone has just realized, let their guard down, increased the speed, and dare I say it "forgot" they were towing a trailer. The mantra is "You now have 3 axles!".

HEY!! I resemble that remark :jumping:

[ntsqd]

snip......

I have a question that maybe you can help with. I am going to be using your same 3 point hitch and it seems as though there was a lot of spotter line action. I am curious if something like a limited slip styled clutch pack be used in the roll axis of your hitch would help reduce some of the need for as much spotter line yet still maintain the level and degree of roll angle?

When I first laid out my coupler (SW pics posted around here somewhere) prior to hearing that the L-n-R coupler was available & had a patent I included a shear pin. The idea was to limit the ability of the trailer to roll unless it had enough inertia to also roll the tow rig. At that point the pin would shear & allow the trailer to roll.

I've since concluded that is a great, one time use idea. For multiple uses I intend to use friction IF I ever build my design for me. At the moment I have little need since the TrailBlazer is base camp and not taken on the trail.

[Willman]

We have since changed all of our hubs and spindles to US made Dexter components as all steel is not made equal.

Martyn.......

What company did you change from???

:)

[elcoyote]

Martyn.......

What company did you change from???

:)

Hayes

[spressomon]

[QUOTE=TheMike]HEY!! I resemble that remark :jumping:



X2!

[bc_fjc]

Michael

A few thoughts. Rolling a trailer is an uncommon event, when you consider all the miles of off road terrain that the owners cover. I know people will tell me otherwise, but when one does roll everyone remembers it and retells the tail around the campfire :REOutCampFire03:

So an isolated incidence becomes a legend. Stories are not told about the uneventful hours on the trail when all you did was breath dirt!!

People won't like me for saying this, so apologies up front my friends :) , but roll overs are primarily caused by driver error. And to add insult to injury they usually occur in easy terrain or flat terrain, at about the time everyone has just realized, let their guard down, increased the speed, and dare I say it "forgot" they were towing a trailer. The mantra is "You now have 3 axles!".

The rotational coupler should allow the trailer to roll when and if it needs to roll. I know of a few cases where if the trailer hadn't rolled it would have taken the vehicle with it.

I know when I flipped mine (http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145437&d=1179868198)I was just thinking of getting the truck up the ledge and before I had a chance to think about the trailer it was already over. Day 3 of ownership....

It is really easy to forget about the trailer once you have been throw some difficult spots without incident and you get over confident. The other big factor is learning how to setup the trailer, how much air to have in the airbags, what tire presser should you be running for the terrain you are on, how is the weight in the trailer displaced.

I know since then I have been doing a lot of things differently to minimize the risk of rolling it again. But in the end there are times you have to drive for the truck not the trailer and if it rolls its nice knowing that the trailer will hold up.

Thanks AT

[Willman]

^Not good.......At least it give you the chance to make sure everything under the trailer is ok....J/K

sorry to hear about your roll-over.......

Love the blue.......

[TheMike]

..... Day 3 of ownership.... Wow, do I feel for you. Your emotional state at the time is quite obvious in the picture. Sorry to see it.

What got damaged? Did the tent come out ok?

[bc_fjc]

Wow, do I feel for you. Your emotional state at the time is quite obvious in the picture. Sorry to see it.

What got damaged? Did the tent come out ok?


It's not me in the photo... I think everyone else was more upset about it then I was. Apparently the frame hit the ledge and it bounced straight up in the air and then landed on the tent without touching the sides. The tent cover and the supports for the roof rack took almost all of the damage. The one fender got tweaked when we rolled it back over and the hinges on the tent got bent but we were able to bend them back. The only other thing that got damaged later on that day was the trailer wire harness; it got cut by the tong of the trailer going down another ledge. Now I keep it bungeed up to the back of the truck when I’m on the trail.
Like I said earlier there is a bit of a learning curve involved.:arabia:

[CodyLX450]

(note to self: Good idea on the 2" spacers at each wheel...also good idea on the insanely heavy tires)