tj

[toyrunner95]

ok so keeping my options open i am venturing into the jeep market for a new rig. i have slowly been realizing that a jeep may be a better decision for what i want to do. here is my criteria.

1. easy to work on.
2. capable. (not just for exploring on dirt roads, i want it to do trails as well.
3. parts availibility (my parents have run jeeps for about 20 years and there is alot less work.
4. aftermarket.
5. flexability. (i want it to be, for lack of a better term, a transformer. it needs to be able to do a weekend trip and a milti day, week expedition.

now so far i like the tj for my platform. its small, great aftermarket, decent performance on and off road, and its alot less work than a toyota.

the reason i am leaning away from toyotas is because of the work. dont get me wrong i love being a grease monkey and a fabricator. but i dont want to have to alter the whole truck to get it where i want. i have an 84 toyota now and i woud get a early 90s truck and do a solid axel swap... this seems rather pointless and a lot of money sunk into only half the suspension. with a tj i can get an entire 4link for 3k. plus even if i break a u joint its a quick fix, birfields are $100 a pop and i cant really fix it. long fields are $500, just doesnt seem worth it to me at this point. i really dont like the scary ness of being SOL in the middle of no where with a busted axel that i cant fix extremely easily on the trail.

long story short, dependable, easy to maintain, and decnt parts , aftermarket or otherwise, availibilty.

what do you guys think? i would like to see some pics and hear some pros and cons.

i have been doing research for about 6 years on these things and helping my friend build up his TJ. i like the rubicon express lifts and i only need 35s for what i want to do. anyway, give me your thoughts.

[tjbliley]

I will start by the fact that I am a little biased. I only own jeeps right now. I have a TJ, an MJ, and a WJ. I think that you are looking in the right direction and I would say with the info you ahve provided about criteria, get a TJ. The questions I would ask are:

1. How many passengers?
2. What type of terrain will you specalize is traversing? Mostly rock, desert, improved trails?
3. What level of comfort will you look to have in camp? Setup tent, trailer tent. RTT, or some other version?
4. What range will you be looking to travel? 300 mile between fills, 100-150? Payload of a TJ is very limited, including the tank.

Hope this helps. All of these things can be done with a TJ, you just have to build to suit.

[BigAl]

5. flexability. (i want it to be, for lack of a better term, a transformer. it needs to be able to do a weekend trip and a milti day, week expedition.


you have 1-4 wrapped up with a tj, the only thing you are lacking is space. I have a yj and use it for camping all the time, but only when driving solo. When the family goes, we take my truck or the wife's xterra. You have to be good at packing and willing to rough it a bit more than you would have to with a larger suv.

I am very impressed with longarm cherokees on 33s, a good compromise of space and offroad ability

[greenhorn]

I have a TJ and a Tacoma DCab. I love my Jeep. It has taken me through places I never thought I could go through. It is simple to work on,I just wish it had more room. I have a family of four now, and I just need more room.

[absolute]

I too am biased... I just sold my XJ for a CJ7. I've been trying to think how we (the family) can camp with the CJ like we can in the Silverado or XJ. I’ve wanted a CJ since I could walk and find it funny b/c my wife and I would go camping in our 91 Jetta or similar cars. But now it seems I always have to take the truck with trailer and this and that... I really need to get out of that mentality. Hopefully the CJ does that for us.

[TenaciousTJ]

I'm here in Auburn, have a 2005 TJ Rubicon w/ RE long arm on 37's, 5.13 gears, etc. Shoot me a PM if you want to come drive it around town and see what you think. Nothing better than trying before buying. I have an M416 you can pull around too, just to see if it all meets your requirements.

[toyrunner95]

wow so far it sounds like im makig a good decision.

as for space, im not too concerned, ive had to rough it before. i may use a RTT if i can but its not necessiary. the biggest tire i would put on it is a 35. i drove my friends tj it has a 4in fabtech lift, which im not too find of. but i found it kinda squirrly. it would bounce and steer rather wildly, but i was used to my car and truck. once i got used to it i had it on the free way at 60ish and it did surprisingly well. i concidered the xj and even the zj but i dont like the unibody at all. plus the cherokee doesnt have 4 link in the rear.

anyway. thanks for the offer on letting me drive your tj. i may take up on it.

as for space. i figure its just going to me me and the dog. or my gf. i can cake out the back seat and put in drawers for all my tools and parts, put a fridge freeze on that. next to that i can put a chuck box for cooking stuff. then a bag and tent on the top of that. should all fit below the roll cage. as for water, i plan on carrying a scepter can inside the jeep. plus another 10 gal of fuel on the back. if push comes to shove i can put a roof basket on top for other stuff. but im a pretty good packer. anyone got pics?

[Haggis]

If it's in your budget, you might want to consider an LJ. After having both a TJ and an LJ, that extra couple of inches makes a real difference on this platform. The ride is better and even with the wife and two kids we can pack up for a weekend of explorin and fit comfortably, where as in the TJ it would get a wee bit tight. All the Tj fun and parts with a little more elbow room.

[absolute]

[QUOTE=toyrunner95]the biggest tire i would put on it is a 35. i drove my friends tj it has a 4in fabtech lift, which im not too find of. but i found it kinda squirrly. it would bounce and steer rather wildly, but i was used to my car and truck. once i got used to it i had it on the free way at 60ish and it did surprisingly well. QUOTE]

Thats not a good thing... sounds like some worn out steering/bushings.

[computeruser]

LJ would be preferable, but TJ would work. The thing that will kill you is the space - there just isn't that much of it unless you pack the vehicle perfectly and fully. Add in a passenger and a dog, and you'll be looking for a trailer!

That said, you'll be hard pressed to beat the aftermarket support, and the dealer network for OEM is not too shabby, even in far-flung places.

As for lift combination, you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns when you get above 33" tires. And you also become dependent on the aftermarket, which may be a problem if you expect to travel to places where FedEx doesn't regularly go...

If it were my vehicle, I'd aim for a small lift (2-3") with a 1" poly integrated body bushing/body lift from Daystar (I think), tuck the drivetrain up in the frame, and run some taller but skinny (10.50 max, unless always in sand) tires that stay more or less underneath the fenders. You'll have a capable vehicle that way and will have gone a long way towards curing the biggest drawback of the TJ/LJ family - breakover angle.

[grahamfitter]

Deleted double post!

[grahamfitter]

A TJ has plenty of space for two people but it does take some organizing. I have a 3/4" plywood shelf bolted to the top of the tub through the hard-top mounting holes. There are cut-outs for the roll cage tubes where the rear seat belts are so the shelf comes right back to the tailgate.

12332

Below the shelf is a large cooler, 5 gallon water container, large tent, 2 burner stove, folding picnic bench, lawn chairs, cooking stuff, minimal recovery stuff, etc. On the shelf are lighter clothes and food but this week long trip the gas grill, 10 Lb propane tank and a rolled-up whitewater raft were on there too. The roof box has paddling gear in it when we're between places but that tends to spread out when we camp somewhere for a couple of days.

My only real complaint about my '97 TJ is 17 MPG and a 15 gallon gas tank. I don't need an extra gas can for the places I go in backwoods Maine but it does get close sometimes. It would be different if I was driving around all day. I think newer models have an 18 gallon tank and larger tanks are available.

Cheers,
Graham

[toyrunner95]

yeah an LJ is out of the budget, a trailer may be necessary, but i can build one. it seems as though space may be at a premium. however, i am used to backpacking all over the nw so weight and space is something i believe i can accomodate. i have a 3 season tent that is a 3 man i packed with. the only really big space difference is the fridge and all the recovery crap. the good news is that the tire carrier i have in mind is highly customizable (sp) i can put a shelf on top of the tire and put the hi lift and fuel cans on the back as well.

still thinking.

[robert j. yates]

[QUOTE=toyrunner95]the biggest tire i would put on it is a 35. i drove my friends tj it has a 4in fabtech lift, which im not too find of. but i found it kinda squirrly. it would bounce and steer rather wildly, but i was used to my car and truck. once i got used to it i had it on the free way at 60ish and it did surprisingly well. QUOTE]

Thats not a good thing... sounds like some worn out steering/bushings.


The real issue with the Fabtech lift is poor suspension geometry, particularly on the rear upper arms. That would be the last lift I would ever consider.

As to tire size...it all s on what you want to do with your Jeep. If you expect to wheel a 4 or 4+ trail or better, you will want 35's. If you don't expect to put the Jeep into that type of situation, stick with 33's. Either way and I know some folks will take exception to this comment, to build it correctly and make it reliable, it costs the same to build...its just that the 33's are more all around driving friendly.

[dennisuello]

[QUOTE=absolute]


The real issue with the Fabtech lift is poor suspension geometry, particularly on the rear upper arms. That would be the last lift I would ever consider.

As to tire size...it all s on what you want to do with your Jeep. If you expect to wheel a 4 or 4+ trail or better, you will want 35's. If you don't expect to put the Jeep into that type of situation, stick with 33's. Either way and I know some folks will take exception to this comment, to build it correctly and make it reliable, it costs the same to build...its just that the 33's are more all around driving friendly.

I ran Rubicon in my old YJ on 33s and with only rear locker. Did just fine. You will appreciate the 33s much better if you intend to drive a lot on the highway and the drivetrain will thank you as well. There's a lot of extra work involved to run 35s o37s on stock axles, need to upgrade brakes, axle shafts, u-joints...

[robert j. yates]

I ran the 'Con once on 33's and frankly, I don't consider it to be a 4 rated trail if you take the bypass around Little Sluice and stick to the slabs around Old Sluice. Running the trail that way means 33's are more than sufficient.

As for running 33's vs. 35's..... I am personally of the opinion that you need just as much suspension, axle and steering beef with the 33's as you do with the 35's. 37's on the other hand require at least a set of Rubicon axles front and rear if not better. The stock 30 won't cut it even with a hub conversion and alloy shafts....its the ball joints and axle tubes that are the weak points for anything bigger than 35's.

[DaveInDenver]

I am personally of the opinion that you need just as much suspension, axle and steering beef with the 33's as you do with the 35's.
That's pretty true in general, there's really no hard-fast rule that you are OK at 33 and not 35. Seems a lot of that is driver dependent. Some guys can destroy a truck even on 31" tires and other guys will be OK at 35. It does seem that >35" is a more of guarantee of problems with trucks (be that a Wrangler, 4Runner, Xterra or most light duty pickups) designed around 28"~31" tires stock.

[BigAl]

I did this to increase storage, it is bolted to the cage with muffler clamp u-bolts, I can take it out in ~10 minutes.
http://users.lazerlink.com/~ams/images/rack%20003.jpg

[BigAl]

A 12332

Below the shelf is a large cooler, 5 gallon water container, large tent, 2 burner stove, folding picnic bench, lawn chairs, cooking stuff, minimal recovery stuff, etc. On the shelf are lighter clothes and food but this week long trip the gas grill, 10 Lb propane tank and a rolled-up whitewater raft were on there too. The roof box has paddling gear in it when we're between places but that tends to spread out when we camp somewhere for a couple of days.

Cheers,
Graham

Where are you? I'd like to swing by for some packing lessons:)

[maximumrob]

Since you're looking for opinions, here goes one.

Put on a 1" body lift, a tummy tuck to get rid of that shovel Jeep calls a skid plate, a locker in the rear, and some skinny 31" mud tires. If you wish to travel many miles of washboard dirt roads, invest in some top dollar shocks. Spend no money on a lift in order to make it as reliable as possible and keep parts available if you do break in some remote corner of the world.

Spend the rest of your cash on smart packing solutions, like a roof rack and a tire carrier with racks and jerry can platforms.

...but that's just me. :)

[grahamfitter]

Where are you? I'd like to swing by for some packing lessons:)

And the kitchen sink!

12354

A few minutes later we ran out of yard guard and retired to the safety of the tent to eat a nice steak. :)

Cheers,
Graham

[newimage]

Well being spoiled by an 05 Rubicon Unlimited the question is still what lift?
I do this all the time...
On a stock TJ go with 2 inch Spacer kit with a Belly Up (Tummy Tuck) find a set of Rubicon Springs swap them out front and rear. SYE drive shaft, Bilstein 5100 on all corners Get some Rubicon Moab Rims w/ 265/75/16 tires and a set of JKS quick Disconnects. Invest in a electric Locker. Thats on the suspension end. It will be driveable just enough lift to go places and keep you out of trouble and dont forget to invest in a winch!
Over head rack is nice and a basic rear rack also to carry tire hi lift etc.
Get a Genright www.genright.com Enduro tank 24.5 gallons will get you places and no need to carry gerry cans.
Now you have a nice expedition Vehicle but longer is better if you can save and look for a deal on a LJ you will not be disappointed. The added space when we go to Loreto Baja is nice but I also have a 31.5 gallon tank.
Thats real nice but thats my 2 cents...:shakin:

[Mayne]

I'm running an 05 TJ, I had to acquire a trailer and a roof rack, to fit my needs. I ca put all of my needs, and my wife and K9 in the jeep, but it becomes really top heavy. The jeep also likes to ride on the bump stops at this point. Personally I'm looking into an AirLift assist even with the trailer. These are just a few of the things that I've had to deal with, but all in all, I love my jeep.

Mayne

[86cj]

ok so keeping my options open i am venturing into the jeep market for a new rig. i have slowly been realizing that a jeep may be a better decision for what i want to do. here is my criteria.

1. easy to work on.
2. capable. (not just for exploring on dirt roads, i want it to do trails as well.
3. parts availibility (my parents have run jeeps for about 20 years and there is alot less work.
4. aftermarket.
5. flexability. (i want it to be, for lack of a better term, a transformer. it needs to be able to do a weekend trip and a milti day, week expedition.

now so far i like the tj for my platform. its small, great aftermarket, decent performance on and off road, and its alot less work than a toyota.

the reason i am leaning away from toyotas is because of the work. dont get me wrong i love being a grease monkey and a fabricator. but i dont want to have to alter the whole truck to get it where i want. i have an 84 toyota now and i woud get a early 90s truck and do a solid axel swap... this seems rather pointless and a lot of money sunk into only half the suspension. with a tj i can get an entire 4link for 3k. plus even if i break a u joint its a quick fix, birfields are $100 a pop and i cant really fix it. long fields are $500, just doesnt seem worth it to me at this point. i really dont like the scary ness of being SOL in the middle of no where with a busted axel that i cant fix extremely easily on the trail.

long story short, dependable, easy to maintain, and decnt parts , aftermarket or otherwise, availibilty.

what do you guys think? i would like to see some pics and hear some pros and cons.

i have been doing research for about 6 years on these things and helping my friend build up his TJ. i like the rubicon express lifts and i only need 35s for what i want to do. anyway, give me your thoughts.



I started traveling the US with a SWB Jeep CJ and moved up to a RV and back down to a JEEP again. You need to live out of the SWB TJ for a while and grow the Jeep bug...(your doomed).
Then when a used LJ for a good deal comes around you could swing it later,and most all your TJ stuff would bolt on......

The 15" is really a big deal inside and the 10" wheelbase is very noticeable on the HWY,(especially when carrying the stuff a TJ puts on its roof inside the LJ!!) .............

[toyrunner95]

well as for a lift, i wasnt thinking fabtech or skyjacker or superlift, i was thinking more along the lines of rubicon express, nth deg mobility, or rock krawler (but i heard bad things about them) for the most part i really dont know what i want to do with it. go camping obviously and do multi day trips. i figure i can fit 75-80% of what i need in the jeep. no problems. i stuffed my friends jeep with a mock run of the bags and what not i would be taking with a cooler and camp kitchen and it did alright i was missing extra fuel and water. but those can go on the back bumper. a few things were really crammed but it did alright.

i plan on doing trails. set up camp, go wheeling, come home. a roof rack is an option but it believe that it would be rather top heavy.

the 35s are BFG mudders, i have run them on a few different rigs none a jeep personally, but i know a guy who has been running them for about 5 years with no probs. to run them, i plan on rebuilding both front and rear axels with yukon parts, they are reliable and can withstand a locker fairly well. i would rather have a U joint be a weak link than a birfield or an axel. put a detroit in the rear and an E locker or ARB up front and im set.