Starting a Ujointclothing 4x4 conversion

[Clark]

Hi everybody - I'm just starting a conversion using the Chris' brackets (ujointclothing). I figured that I would document what the conversion entails so that others could convert their vans (even though I'm planning to take 3-4 months to get it done. A lot of the problems I encounter will probably be considered very basic since I'm a newb when it comes to car work, but I've done loads of other projects so I'm feeling okay. Last week I got my Dana 60 axle. It cost $700 plus $250 shipping from Utah to California. I'm waiting on my nvg271 transfer case that I got for $250 plus $100 shipping from Rhode Island. So far I've been really impressed with Chris' kit. There's some really weird bends in the vans frame and from a quick look it seems the brackets take this into account. I started stripping the axle today. I've got the easy stuff off (rotors, calipers and steering) taken off today.

A few things that I still need to solve so I thought that I would post them:
1) Where would you connect the Track Bar on a van. On the trucks I've seen they are connected to the engine, but I don't see where they can attach on the van.

2) Any ideas on how to attach the sway bar. I know that I won't be able to use the holes that the van's sway bar attaches since the bracket will cover half of the holes. Do I need to go custom?

3) Are there any prefabbed shock loops that will work on a van? I read about Eric Badgers (I believe thats his name) problems with the Sportsmobile shock mount and I would like to avoid this.

[jgolden]

Congrats on the new purchase!!!! What year and model van is it? Diesel?

www.camburg.com - These guys can fab up anything your want for shock hoops. A little spendy but they do great work.

James

[Clark]

I have a 2000 Diesel E350. That a good tip on Camburg. They are just down the freeway from me.

[ujoint]

Yo!! Don't worry about the trac bar, you won't be able to use it for this conversion. Just cut the trac bar mount off the ubolt plate flush on the SD axle. Did the axle come with the sway bar? If it did, some links can come straight up to the frame. Some slight mods may have to be made, but it's do able. As far as the hoops, nothing off the shelf will work, even with small mods. Some custom hoops will have to be fabbed up like mine, or something similar. Looking forward to the posts on the build!!!!

[Clark]

I couldn't see how the track bar was going to fit on. My axle did come with a sway bar, but as I've been reading more I'm thinking that I would like to have a sway bar that could be taken on and off easily. Do you have any motivation to make a sway bar/shock loop package that goes with your kit? I know you could sell at least 2 ;)

[ujoint]

I don't think you're going to have enough suspension travel to need a disconnecting sway bar, or taking the van many places that would need it. Atleast for now, just run the superduty bar, you can always upgrade it later after you spend some time offroad with the van.

[BigAl]

I am eager to see your build, I've used ford f250 shock mounts on several jeeps. They are cheap and very heavy duty. I just weld them onto the frame. This is the part #E5TZ-18183-A. HTH

photo coutesy of classic broncos
http://classicbroncos.com/img/f250shocktowers001.jpg

[ujoint]

Those may work, but they look too tall. They'd have to be cut down for sure. A superduty mount (99-04) will work better, and also allow the shock to pivot the same direction as the axle under flex.....

[FROADER]

Awesome! I can't wait to see this build. I'm hoping to get the kit after the new year. Lots-o-pics please when the time comes. :)

I used those F250 towers on my SAS'd Explorer...very sturdy.

[Clark]

I can't wait to see this build
Me either! I'm new to this type of work so this is a bit of a stretch for me. I've got a lot of help so things are starting to come together. I must admit that I really like those brackets - I've heard they're only $12 a shot.

[FROADER]

What city are you in? I'd be interested in checking out some of the progress sometime, if you wouldn't mind.

[Clark]

I'm up in the Mission Viejo area, and you're more than welcome (but you better watch out or I might put you to work ;) ) The project will be moving slowly at this point, but should speed up as I get more things figured out.

[FROADER]

That's cool with me. It will (hopefully) make mine smoother. :)

So are the brackets and shackles in already, and you're just waiting to rebuild the axle to install?

[Clark]

Right now everything is stock. I plan on getting the front bracket in over the holidays. You cant get the shackles in until you're ready to put the axle in since the sleeve goes right in the middle of the 3 holes for the control arm.

[FROADER]

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if you had it on jackstands or what. I have the whole week after Christmas off, so I'll PM you my # later and we'll go from there.

[Clark]

I've been continuing to make progress with the project. The first phase of the project has been to purchases all the parts. I met up with Chris today to pick up a few more things. I got a set of Atlas springs with a 2" lift and the axle pushed forward two inches, upper and lower shock mounts, and some extremely nice stainless steel break lines. I'm also making some mechanical progress. Being very new to this type of project I was extremely stoked when I successfully stripped my Dana 60 axle. Now I get to clean it up! Here's a couple pictures of my newest toys.

[ujoint]

Nice presentation :)

[alaskantinbender]

Great thread, keep those pictures commin.....:jumping:



Regards,

Jim

[Clark]

I'm hoping to get into the interesting part over Christmas break. I need to replace the water pump so I'm planning on dropping the radiator while I'm at it and installing the front spring bracket. I'll take a few pictures. I agree Chris - the parts do look pretty good :)

[FROADER]

Any updates on the install?

[Clark]

I was all set to start the front brackets about 4 days ago. At the last moment I decided to replace the heater hoses along with the other hoses when I replaced the water pump (they get hear on Monday). I took the front bumper off and tried fitting the brackets on. It looks like it would be worlds easier with the radiator removed so I'm holding off to do it in one big shot. I'm thinking I'll start on the 19th since I have a 3 day weekend.

Have you picked up your kit yet?

[FROADER]

That sounds like a good idea to do it all at once.

I haven't got mine yet. Money is a little tight right now, and I'm trying to sell my Explorer to help fund it. Hopefully soon.

[Clark]

There sure is a lot of odds and ends that need to be picked up before the front axle can go in. I just got the tires (the old ebay takeoff special). They're 265/70/17s. Its a little smaller that I wanted, but I can upgrade after I get things on the van. Chris had mentioned that he changed the angle of his oil filter to get it out the the way of the driveshaft. This motivated me to put in an amsoil dual bipass which will sort of accomplish the same thing.

[ujoint]

You already installed the oil filter bypass? It may not be needed since you have a 7.3, but if you already installed it then thats one less thing to worry about. The 6.0's have the oil filter thats beggin to be wiped off the planet by the front shaft.

[Clark]

I finally got around to installing the front brackets on my van. I really happy with how it went together. I took my time installing them, but it still ended up taking a FULL day. Now that they are on they seem very strong! I did a few things differently than Chris' directions, and I'm happy with how it went. Since I was doing the waterpump and low pressure oil pump, I decided to completely remove the radiator. This opened up a lot of room to work. I predrilled 3 out of the 4 holes to the 1/2" size. This way I knew that at least 3 holes were very straight. On these holes I was able to drill from opposite sides of the frame in order to make the holes through the frame. Once I was through I used the 1/2" bit to clean them up. The forth whole I drilled the way Chris recommended. Next I cleaned and painted everything. The one thing that took more time that I expected was shaping the anticrush frame inserts. I plan on using my old bumper for now so I had to trim the bumper to make room for the bumper. It will work for now.

[ujoint]

Looks great!! They look like they've always belonged there!!

[Clark]

I starting to feel like I'm reach some level of comfort with this project :wings: I've been able to cut down my steady barrage of emails to Chris and things are actually getting completed! Here's my most recent progress update. I finally got the axle completely stripped, cleaned up, and painted. I'm happy with how it turned out, but it is a little rougher that a pro would get it. I used some Jasco metel prep on it and it left things less than perfect in appearance, but between loads of wire brushing and the jasco it's perfectly rust free. I modified the steering damper/track bar assembly since I plan on keeping the stock steering for now, but there is no way to make use of the track bar. I also picked up some brand new Dana/Spicer 4.10 ring and pinions and bearing kit for the front and rear (got a real good deal on them), and some greaseable upper and lower Moog ball joints from Powerstrokeshop.com (what a great company). Still have to pick up the Spicer greaseable ujoints. Its getting time to start thinking about the trip to Chris's gear guy. I'm planning on installing the axle over spring break!

[ujoint]

looks good & clean to me!! I'll give you a shout over the weekend!!

[jammyauto]

Hey Chris, What do you have to offer to move the oil filter? I heard that Quigly offers a nice kit to relocate the filter but I tried to buy one from them and they would not sell me one since my van is not a quigly. Go figure. Don't really want to go the amsoil route as that is really the only alternative that SMB offers. Just want to move the stock filter.

[ujoint]

Quigley sold me the parts to relocate mine, I guess they changed their policy. Guys are using the Amsoil like you said, and all the vans I've converted besides mine have been gas motors that didn't need the filter moved.

[jammyauto]

OK thanks Chris. Maybe I'll try quigley one more time and not even say the word "sportsmobile" to them. I'll just say I'm converting a van myself. Maybe they are a little sore because SMB used to buy alot of vans from them. Maybe I just talked to the wrong person.

[ujoint]

PM sent...

[ujoint]

Want to let everyone know that I just boxed up the final 3 kits from the first production run. I'm going to start building more kits, but it will take me a few months. So if you're thinking of getting one, get it quick!!!!! ----Chris

[Clark]

Excellent news! I highly recommend the brackets. They're top quality, and there's nothing out there that will work in their place.

[FROADER]

Hey Clark, if you don't mind sharing, how much did those 2" lift leaf packs cost you?

Thanks.

Oh, BTW...My kit should be shipped tomorrow from Chris. :wings: :jumping: :jump: :D

[Clark]

I got them from Chris and I'm sure that he will pm you (are you listening Chris ;) ). I'm liking the look of the 2" push. I'll be so glad to get those wheels away from the wheel well. I'm glad to hear that you got the kit. I'm going to be tearing into it mid March if you want to stop by to see what you have in head of you!

I've got a big van weekend planned. On Monday I'm getting front and rear 4.10 gears installed. I was going to go with Chris' guy, but I decided to stay closer to home and went to 4wheelparts. Their assistant manager - Eric, has been really helping me out on a few purchases. I just ordered some spicer greaseable u-joints and a warner premium hubs.

If you need any help with the non Chris parts (springs, brake lines, kit) let me know. I got a good deal on a dana 60 axle out of Utah that beats the locals (Transwest), and a transfer case out of Rhode Island that seems pretty good. I've been very surprised at home much people have stepped up when they've heard that I'm doing it myself.

My next, next step is to get working on the transmission. There's some pretty cool rebuild kits from a guy named RacerX. Its one of the great things about ignoring my limits :jump:

[FROADER]

Right after I posted that, I figured you got them from Chris.

I'd love to stop by and check it out when you're ready to get it going. I'll help if I can too. :friday:

[ujoint]

I'm here!! My life revolves around this forum it seems!! Let me know if or when you want springs.

[Clark]

Its a race to see if I can get the axle in the van before I run out of money (or get beaten by my wife ;) ) This week I finally got the 4.10 gears installed (I've got about 200 miles on the rears) and I think that I'm really going to like them. At the low speeds the van seems much lighter. Its time to start getting the axle together. I picked up some warn premium hubs and spicer greasable u-joints so I'm going to end up with basically a new axle. I also managed to get a pretty good deal on a 4x4 tail extension housing for the transmission ($70 delivered). This summer I'm going to need to get the transmission rebuilt. I'm seriously considering going with RacerX's kit and doing it myself. Because of the axle's different bolt pattern I needed new rims. The rims I ordered finally came in. I'm going to pick them up this week along with some steel wheel spacers. I think I might actually have the axle in the van by Easter.

[FROADER]

Hey Clark, do you happen to know the backspacing of the wheels you're using?

[Clark]

Sadly I do. I bought a set of rims and wheels off ebay (I got a pretty good deal). 10 minutes before I picked them up I realized that the 5.5" backspacing on the new rims doesn't work on the 2003 axle. The tires ended up being a good enough deal that it made the most sense to take the tires off the rims and get new rims. The new rims are 4.5 inch backspacing 17" rims.

[Clark]

I've been really surprised about the amount of help I've received on the is project. Today I spent the day driving around L.A. (not my favorite thing to do). I stopped by Chris's house (Ujointclothing - soon to be UjointOffroad) to pick up my rims (he special ordered them for me at the the best price in town). I spent a couple hours looking over his van (amazing workmanship) and learning how to proceed with my mods. When I get the axle installed he's making a trip down to my house to help me connect the steering and to double check my work :) Next I headed over the WheelAdapter.com to pick up my rear wheel spacers with bolt spacing conversion. Its nice working with people who take such pride in their product. I watched while they machined the spacers and custom fit them to my rims. He also gave me a great deal on some new closed end lug nuts. On the way home I stopped off at my local Goodyear. They knew things were tight so they unmounted the tires from my wrong sized rims I got off ebay, and are remounting and balancing all 5 tires for a grand total of $63 (and I didn't by any products from them). Last week I got the gears installed at 4WheelParts in Laguna Hills. They got me great prices on everything (gears, greasable ball and u-joints) and took a lot of pride in their gear install. I've been really lucky to be dealing with people who want to see me successful.

[ujoint]

tick tock, tick tock. You hear that Dan? The clock is tickin.......

[ntsqd]

Hey Chris, What do you have to offer to move the oil filter? I heard that Quigly offers a nice kit to relocate the filter but I tried to buy one from them and they would not sell me one since my van is not a quigly. Go figure. Don't really want to go the amsoil route as that is really the only alternative that SMB offers. Just want to move the stock filter.
There are billet (NOT die-cast!) filter pads and filter adapters available. Presumably there are late model Ford applications to fit what ever engine you've got. Don's Industrial in Ventura (Stanley Ave & Vta Ave) can provide you with Aeroquip FC332 hose and the necessary Barb-tite fittings or Herman can probably set you up with braided SS bits (though I hate that stuff - blingy with little return). PM if you want further info as this sort of thing is part of my normal job duties.

[ujoint]

Will it work with the Van canister filter? if so, send me some info, I'd appreciate it!

[Clark]

tick tock, tick tock. You hear that Dan? The clock is tickin.......
I can also hear it....but I thought it was the sound of my knees knocking ;)

[ntsqd]

Will it work with the Van canister filter? if so, send me some info, I'd appreciate it!
Send or post a pic of the filter. I'm not familar with it. I had assumed it was a spin-on filter of some sort, for either the gasser or the PSD.

[ujoint]

Here's mine (with the Quigley relocation) Normally it just sticks straight down.

http://www.ujointclothing.com/rigs/images/109.jpg

[ntsqd]

Curious. Now I see why the problem. How is that plumbed? Any indication of this filter being unique to the vans? Simplest sure would be if Quigley would sell "you" a replacement for the one that got damaged.......

Less simple would be to convert to a correct spin-on filter and remote mount it using an adapter plate on the block.

EDIT:On further examination of the pic I'm guessing that the obvious machined block in front of the die-cast filter body is a 90* adapter and the tube just visable above it seals something like the attached? If so, is this also how the tube seals to the block?
If any of this guesstimation is correct, how are the tubes retained at both ends?

[ujoint]

You're correct, the two tubes come down the back side of the engine & into the block that makes the 90. There are large o-rings, and a clamp that gets bolted to the block to hold them in place. I did trace the oil lines to see where they go, and they disappear towards the turbo. Sportsmobile does a relocation, maybe someone that has one can post some pics.

[ntsqd]

Sounds like it wouldn't bee too hard to make a similar adapter block to get the oil into flexible hose and use a remote mounted filter. Either a System (http://www.system1filters.com/)1 or the O'Berg now Parker (possibly discontinued? link is NG, XP thread (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9158)) filters will handle the pressure, and be cleanable rather than disposable.

[ujoint]

I wouldn't be, as long as you can machine well, and have the know how to get it done. I like the Quigley system, keeps everything close to stock, and takes up less room. IMO, having hoses going to a remote mounted filter is just something else that can fail. But sometimes you gotta do whatcha gotta do right??

[ntsqd]

I can't think of an easy method to build the Quigley part. At least not one that I'd be willing to put on my truck. Which is why I was thinking to take it remote. I suspect that this is also why Quigley doesn't want to sell them. To the average person it probably doesn't seem like it should cost as much as it's manufacturing cost means that it has to.

Let's assume for a moment that I was going to offer such a remote kit. At the very least I would use Aeroquip FC332 hose with barb-tite/Push-loc fittings and I'd much prefer to use Weatherhead H166/H229 hose and 247 "N" fittings if the bend radii can be large enough.

[FROADER]

Any more progress, Clarke?



http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/3460/SMBFROADER_1.gif

[ujoint]

He's probably under the van as we speak.... he emailed me yesterday, and he's making progress. maybe we should go check on him???

btw--- I love that graphic!!

[Clark]

Yep, that's exactly where I've been. Today is day 3 of the conversion (solid 9 hour days) and things are looking good. I bet that I'm the first person to try and attempt a solid axle swap on an inclined driveway in a master planned community. I bet I'm broken about a hundred ordnances so far! So far I've removed all the old axle stuff, ground off the old shock bucket, drilled and welded the shackle sleeves, trimmed and re-enforced the motor mount, secured the brake lines, and installed the leaf springs and axle. Tomorrow I plan on installing the upper shock mounts, fabricating some brake line tabs, and getting the van on the ground. I need to talk to Chris tonight about the steering. Its very close and I need to find out the best way to make the final connections.

[fullauto]

dan way to go !!! what do you think of you mechanical abillities now?glad to hear about all the rules you broke somebody has to entertain all the busy bodies with to much time in thier hands so they can complain!!!you are now officially a redneck!!!how about some pics?
wade:victory: