Nikon D40x or Canon Powershot S5IS

[LaOutbackTrail]

I hate to fling this upon you guys, but I'm trying to decide on new camera... I've gotten into the rut of using P&S style cameras over the SLR. I have a Nikon N65 35mm with a few lenses (and filters) that I never use any more (because of the 35mm). I am wanting the camera for my upcoming trip through the Americas so that I can take my usual captivating photos but with better quality... The thing I hate about 35mm is that I can't see the photo after I take it... and although I know the aperature is correct, I have bad eyes and dont know about the focus. SO 75% of my 35mm photos (if taken without AF) would be out of focus.

The two cameras I've narrowed it down to are the Nikon D40x SLR and the Canon S5IS.
The D40X seems to be a powerful, well rounded camera for a good price. With full control of settings.
The cons: although it is a "compact SLR" it is still large and would take up valuable space. Lenses are also large and take up more space. No video mode.
http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/01/82/08/09/0001820809421_215X215.jpg

I might be leaning the way of the Canon, but like I mentioned earlier, I have gotten in the rut of P&S. But, with the S5IS, I can control alot of the settings and has a pretty good backing. The Canon also has telephoto and wide angle lenses available with the ability to use filters. It also has video mode and takes up much less space and is cheaper.
Pros: Decent control of exposures. Adapts lenses and filters. Video mode. Compact and Cheap.
The Cons: The camera can not be dialed in as precise as an SLR. Small sensor and poorer lowlight abilities.
http://www.regalcamera.com/images/zoom/cnpss5is.jpg

Have any of you used both and can comment?
Thanks.

[Clark White]

Unfortunately I have not used either. However, I am looking for an SLR my self, and have settled on the D40x (just trying to figure out lenses before I order). The reason for this is that the D40x has the same image sensor as it's big brother, the D80. My Uncle has the D80 and I have been very impressed, and with the same image sensor I am confident I will be equally impressed with the D40x. The only major difference between the D40x and the professional DSLR's is less body around the D40x, so if you drop it, it will get hurt more easily.

As far as the Canon, I don't know much about them at all. From what you said though, I would be worried about your mentioning it's not as good in low light as that is when I find I get the best shots, especially of wild life.

[hattrik21]

I just upgraded from a P/S camera as it had too many limiations for what I wanted in a camera and now have a Canon XTi. Since you have a Nikon 35mm, are the lens compatible with the D40? If so, that might be a good option as you already have lens and the flexibility of lens choices might be better in the long run.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I just upgraded from a P/S camera as it had too many limiations for what I wanted in a camera and now have a Canon XTi. Since you have a Nikon 35mm, are the lens compatible with the D40? If so, that might be a good option as you already have lens and the flexibility of lens choices might be better in the long run.

That is one of the major reasons I am on the fence. I have Nikkor lenses, but not sure if the AF would work for them? I know they fit, but not sure about he Auto focus....

[slick621]

That is one of the major reasons I am on the fence. I have Nikkor lenses, but not sure if the AF would work for them? I know they fit, but not sure about he Auto focus....


The AutoFocus will most likely not work between your current lenses and the D40/D40x, because the camera body lacks auto focusing pin like most SLR's (i.e. the lens must have an internal focusing motor). Here is a list of compatible lenses: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=262638

FWIW, I have the D40, and I love it - it's just the right size for me. I am, however, just starting out in photography.

[jginca]

LaOutback

I just went through the same ordeal. The reason I did not go with the D40X is that for that camera Nikon removed the internal focusing motor in the body. The D40 has an internal motor. Having said that nikon has lens with and without a motor. The D40 can use either but the D40x, you must buy lens that have the motor internal to the lens and that is why you are limited to certain lens....At least that what I was told.

[flyingwil]

I am going through the same... from what I have been told is stay away from D40X since it is basically the same as the D40 with out the guts to handle the larger size... If you need the 10 megapixel format, go with the D80 from what research I have done.

Also the cheapest prices I can find are at http://www.1wayphoto.com/

Just sharing what I have heard in my quest for a new camera....

[Photog]

The D80 will allow you to use the older AF lenses.

The D200 is dust and rain sealed, and can even use the Nikkor AI lenses made as far back as 1977.

[neliconcept]

well since you already have nikkor lenses, i would go with a nikon SLR, but stay way from the 40s.

Im not a nikon person persay, but I have used the d70, 80, 100, 200 and d2h.

If you have the means, get the 80 or 200 and build up your lens collection from there (lenses that work for you though, dont go out buying every prime with 1.2f)

the D80 has a solid body and can withstand a lot more then the its counterpart at Canon, the XTI. XTI is a good camera as far as color and noise comp go, but its body isnt that solid.

Just beware of the noise problems on Nikons.

And upgrade from P&S, if dont plan to use this camera for just snapshots, go ahead and upgrade, it might be more to lug around, but its worth it in the end!

[Lost Canadian]

I am going through the same... from what I have been told is stay away from D40X since it is basically the same as the D40 with out the guts to handle the larger size... If you need the 10 megapixel format, go with the D80 from what research I have done.

Also the cheapest prices I can find are at http://www.1wayphoto.com/

Just sharing what I have heard in my quest for a new camera....

That site looks fishy. A new D300 body goes for $1799 easy. How they can sell it, or say they sell it for $1249 is out of this world. Sounds like gray market goods at best, or a scam. If not, I'm buying one, or ten, and selling them on ebay for a nice $500 a piece profit.

What did you mean "without the guts to handle the larger size?" The D40x, D80, and D200 all share the same image sensor. What you get with the D80 is a focus pin for non motorized lenses, and a few external adjustment features. The D200 gives you a few more external features plus it has better metering. All 3 camera's produce the same level of images though.

The downfall with both the D40 and D40x is the exclusion of that focus pin. It limits you to Nikkor AF-S lenses and Sigma HSM lenses if you want auto focus. Tamron is just starting to coming out with moterized lenses so there are a lot of options out there. If you're just getting into DSLR and will be buying new glass, then not having the focus pin should not be a big issue, just buy Nikkor AF-S or Sigma HSM glass. If you're wanting to use your old non AF-S glass, then it becomes an issue unless you don't mind manually focusing.

As for the original post. Have you looked at the Canon G9, the Leica D-Lux 3, or the Nikon 5100. Those would be my top choices for full manual P&S cameras. Smaller then the S5 IS too. Superior picture quality as well at a fraction of the bulk.

Edit: I checked out that site. Buyer beware!
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/1_Way_Photo

[neliconcept]

That site looks fishy. A new D300 body goes for $1799 easy. How they can sell it, or say they sell it for $1249 is out of this world. Sounds like gray market goods at best, or a scam. If not, I'm buying one, or ten, and selling them on ebay for a nice $500 a piece profit.

What did you mean "without the guts to handle the larger size?" The D40x, D80, and D200 all share the same image sensor. What you get with the D80 is a focus pin for non motorized lenses, and a few external adjustment features. The D200 gives you a few more external features plus it has better metering. All 3 camera's produce the same level of images though.

The downfall with both the D40 and D40x is the exclusion of that focus pin. It limits you to Nikkor AF-S lenses and Sigma HSM lenses if you want auto focus. Tamron is just starting to coming out with moterized lenses so there are a lot of options out there. If you're just getting into DSLR and will be buying new glass, then not having the focus pin should not be a big issue, just buy Nikkor AF-S or Sigma HSM glass. If you're wanting to use your old non AF-S glass, then it becomes an issue unless you don't mind manually focusing.

As for the original post. Have you looked at the Canon G9, the Leica D-Lux 3, or the Nikon 5100. Those would be my top choices for full manual P&S cameras. Smaller then the S5 IS too. Superior picture quality as well at a fraction of the bulk.

Edit: I checked out that site. Buyer beware!
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/1_Way_Photo

yeah those sites actually stick you with the body price being cheap, but then they raise huge price margins on the batteries and accessories, and if you dont ask for those, they wont even sell you the camera body,

they do not!!! sell the accessories with the body, you get the body only, no strap, no battery, no charger, manuals or anything.

stick with bhphotovideo.com or adorama.com proven sites with great customer service.

also any add in prophoto magazine or B&W magazine is a proven company.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I'm trying not to count my eggs before they hatch..... but it is possible that I may be limited to what is sold in Walmart stores or on walmart.com.... details later, like friday after a meeting with the wally world big whiggs.:ylsmoke:


Walmart.com if any of you have the time to want to tell me what I should get off of there?

Also, the Digital Camcorder that I am going for is the Canon HV20.


Oh and I am not new with SLRs, just DSLR. I know all about the exposure stuff.... and have a bunch of nice photos but they are all prints...

[LaOutbackTrail]

What about me finding a used D100? Think that would fit the bill? A little outdated? (This is if I have to buy my own)

[Lost Canadian]

but it is possible that I may be limited to what is sold in Walmart stores or on walmart.com.... details later, like friday after a meeting with the wally world big whiggs.
Going to shake hands with the devil eh? LOL.

[neliconcept]

What about me finding a used D100? Think that would fit the bill? A little outdated? (This is if I have to buy my own)

D100 i think is 6.1mp, but as far as quality its still a good camera, if you can find a used D70S do that as well.

fredmiranda.net

if you want canon used cameras,

photography-on-the.net/forum or something along those lines

[nwoods]

I'm not sure why you would go through the effort of buying an SLR if it doesn't work with your existing lenses. Get a used D80 or even a D200 and you will be happy for a long time.

Or, if not the SLR route, consider two areas that PNS cameras are typically weak in:

Shutter response time (shutter lag)
Short battery length

Also, the recycle time (time between shots) is typically quite a bit slower, and of course, the speed of the zoom in your case, as it has that large telescoping motorized zoom, which by the way, tends to consume battery strength quite a bit.

I am a big beliver in PNS cameras, and have several, but buy one that focuses on the benefits of having a little compact PNS, instead a big one that has too many compromises. Thinking more about that telescoping lens, you might want to look at something like the Sony DSC-F828 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf828/). It has an amazing lens (F2.0 28-200mm), huge battery capacity, and relatively fast operation, and a fantastic exposure compensation ability. I have shot several thousand images with the older F717 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf717/), and loved it. Still have it in fact.

[Lost Canadian]

Keep an eye on this (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nikon-D70s-D-SLR-kit-with-50mm-f-1-8-and-18-55mm-lenses_W0QQitemZ220180975875QQihZ012QQcategoryZ107 912QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)sale. Could be a good deal.

[Alex]

I can't speak for the S5is but I got my wife an S3is. It is tiny and easy to carry but capable of getting some nice photos. These are photos (and a video) that I would not have gotten from a bigger camera because I would not have bothered to carry a bigger camera on this trip.

http://www.fototime.com/19D097D098F2086/orig.jpg

Night mode... pretty good for a hand-held point and shoot camera. This is the first image stabilized camera I have used.
http://www.fototime.com/B4951BF6D57EB76/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/9B3D6196372C8CD/orig.jpg

I love the fold and swivel LCD screen... it makes it easy to compose photos on the sly.
http://www.fototime.com/474F770C509B721/orig.jpg

Video is only 30fps but still you are talking about a palm sized camera here! More than adequete for posting to the internet, it also records in stereo. Turn the volume up.
http://www.fototime.com/05E43DF2AFB17E3/thumbnail.jpg (http://www.fototime.com/05E43DF2AFB17E3/conv.wmv)

This is what made the racket. Another shot that the tilt-n-swivel LCD made easy to compose.
http://www.fototime.com/20879DCAD60C4C5/orig.jpg

The S5is had just come out when I bought the S3is, for $100 more the 5 didn't seem that much better of a camera. There may be less price difference now that the 5 has been out a while.

My conclusion is that the point-n-shoot camera that you can carry everywhere will take better photos than the best camera in the world that is missing the opportunity, sitting on a shelf at home.

[LaOutbackTrail]

My Canon Powershot A560 takes great photos too.... My only major complaint is the auto opening lens cover does not open on its own.

Here are some pics taken with the 560
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Artistic/Picture034.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Artistic/Natchitoches035-1.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Artistic/Natchitoches030-1.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Artistic/IMG_0525.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Artistic/IMG_0212.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Artistic/IMG_0908.jpg

I used photos that showed a variation in the different types of exposures the camera is capable of...
As I stated in my original post, the S5IS has a smaller sensor than the SLRs, BUT the sensor is still larger than the sensor in the 560. The 560 ALMOST does everything I need...... almost....

The only other thing that I do not like is the fact that it does not have the swivel screen. The photo with the leaf is an example of when that would have been helpful because the leaf was only about 12" from the ground.

Your point about actually having the camera when you want to take photos is a big thing with me. I will be travelling through Central America this coming summer, which is the primary reason I want a new camera. No one has pointed out that a bigass camera draws more attention in Central America.... I'm concerned that i may be less likely to dig out the 3lb gun (camera) opposed to the 1lb gun to take photos of the people and such....


decisions decisions

[Lost Canadian]

I'm not sure if you've had a chance to see the cameras side by side or not. My friend brought over her S3 IS today, which is comparable to the S5 IS, is the S5 better??? don't know, but it seems to be a serious debate amongst owners. Anyway I did a little comparison.

D40x vs G9 vs S3 IS.

The S3 was a nice camera but nothing spectacular compared to the A560. I doubt you'd see much improvement, if any. My mom has a A560 and she takes great pics with it. The D40x and G9 took much cleaner pictures, but then again you're looking at a higher price tag.

If it were me spending the money, which it's not, but if it were, I'd move up the P&S range to something like the G series canons, leica or similar, or move into a DSLR.

Good luck on your trip and your camera search.

I took some quick snaps of the three.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/adventurenorth/TestRGB-4.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/adventurenorth/TestRGB-3.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/adventurenorth/TestRGB.jpg

[LaOutbackTrail]

I've never had cooked camera before. :bike_rider:


I'm pretty set on the S5IS and will likely be what I go with. It has a few accessories that will help me take better photos. These include wide and telephoto lenses and filters. I'm sure other cameras have these features, but not many of them have the features the S5 has that I like.

One of my biggest things is the ability to put a safety filter on (with a sleeve over the lens) keeping the actual lens protected.
Another feature that I like is the swivel LCD screen. I hardly ever take regular photos.... you know standing height, straight on.... boring. As i showed above, most of my photos are pretty much at odd angles.

Thanks for the help guys.

[BPMOU]

Lots of great comments. I was in the same exact spot and couldn't decide between a S3, or S5 or D40 or XTi. I tried them and quickly ruled out the S3 and S5, leaving only the XTi and D40. Tried them both, (friends have each of them, and looked at Pentax) and in the end I liked the D40 best. The lack of motor on the body is minor as almost all of Nikons new lenses are AF-S lenses. I would not spend the extra money on the D40x. Get the D40, with a kit 18-55 and spend $205 and get a 55-200 with VR and learn how to take picures. I know that my next camera will be a D300, but it will be down the road. I only buy Nikorr lenses, so I don't worry about compatibility. I know others have recommended that you get a d80 or D200 out of the gate, but if you are looking at entry level I think that they may me way more than what you need. If you get into it later, then buy better gear, but don't by the best gear out of the gate just because.