Best CB set-up:

Scott Brady

Founder
As many of you in attendance on the rally know... My cb situation SUCKS.

I have never been that "into" radios, and just view them as a basic tool, like a socket. Well, I was pretty fed up with the situation as of the weekend, so I want an ultra high quality set-up.

I know the antenna are key, as all CB's are "legally" limited to 4 or 5 watts (cant remember).

So, all of you pro's, please give me the scoop, spare no expense solution.

In addition, I am also curious of antenna location. Al's radio is really strong, and is mounted to the roof. I am also interested in that location, with a through the roof mount that can have the whip removed if required.

Please help me into the land of the "loud and clear"
 
S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
I've had my eye on this one for a while now.

I've been using my trusty old Johnson CB since 1977!.....maybe time for an upgrade>?!! ..........hehe

I like the fact that this MIDLAND has "Weather"......and "SSB" for more power and longer range.....but SSB only works with someone else who has it.

Very nice and compact unit.

I've seen them on eBay for about $161.

MIDLAND # 79-290

AM-USB/LSB-Weather
40 Channel CB w/ Side Band
120 channel operation (USB-AM-LSB)
7 channel US/3 channel Canadian weather receiver
Detachable control panel for added security
Black Matrix LCD display with choice of channel number or frequency readout
4 channel memory plus instant ch. 9
Feature packed! RF gain, mic gain, dual watch, fine/coarse and MORE
For more info please download our manual


79-290.jpg





I've had a FIRESTIK antenna since 1977! This thing has seen over 400,000 miles on an 18 wheeler and it's still kickin'....!!

FIRESTIK makes several "NO GROUND PLANE" antennas.



BUYING A RADIO
Compliments of Firestik® Antenna Company Technical Support Team


Copyright © 1996 Firestik® Antenna Company

THE RADIO PURCHASE

Over the years we have gravitated to simplicity. It stands to reason that the more features the radio has … the more problems you can have. Since the FCC regulates power output of production CB radios, what separates a $200 radio from a $70 radio is not much more than "bells and whistles". It is not uncommon for a person with an inexpensive radio and a thoughtfully installed and tuned antenna system to enjoy performance that far exceeds the fellow with the $200+ radio and a mediocre antenna or questionable antenna installation. Insofar as performance is concerned, it is the antenna that makes the difference … not the radio.
 
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goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
4 watts is what you are limited to on the CB, Scott. going beyond that is pretty much useless anyway, as people will be able to hear you, but you won't hear them. VHF is a much better way to "reach out and touch someone".

Being limited to 4 watts really levels the playing field with CB radios. There isn't much heat generated, and they are all pretty reliable. If you stick with the major name brands, you really are just choosing which options you want (sideband, PA output, other bells and whistles).

Besides, you already know that it is all about antenna location, tuning, and length. The 1/4 wave antenna's are hard to beat, particularly with difficult ground planes (like on a jeep). This is what I use on my jeep. Since I have so much "jeep" next to my antenna (as opposed to below the antenna), getting the SWR under 2.5 was difficult with shorter antennas. With the 1/4 wave, I hang out about 1.1. (1.0 is as good as it gets...anything over 3.0 and you are inviting trouble for your radio). In case you didn't know, 95% of the antennas out there have the same 108" of wire in them, regardless of how tall the antenna is. On the shorter antenna's, the wire is simply wound around a fiberglass rod, or inside of a plastic housing.

The ground plane is the first thing to look at. The main mass of metal in your vehicle is the ground plane, for all intents and purposes. You want your antenna centered above this plane, with as little else up there as possible. If this is not possible, you want the antenna as high as you can get it, and definately at least 1/3 of it should be above the highest point of the vehicle. You can get away with having it lower if you move it farther away from obstructions (large masses of metal)....like Chris has done by moving it away from the cab of his truck towards the front bumper. But by not keeping the ground plane centered under the antenna, Chris gives up some performance. In the typical trail setting, you will never notice, but if you were talking to someone who is just on the edge of being out of range, you can see a difference. For your tacoma, I would put the antenna right square in the middle of the roof.

Next look at antenna types. Basically, pick whatever fits your application. I used a 108" (1/4 wavelength) stainless whip. This works great on the jeep because of the lack of anywhere to mount the antenna. I had a hard time getting the SWR down with the shorter antenna's. But, since you have a great place to mount one...I would use a magnetic base...something like a Wilson 500 or Wilson 1000. Very strong mount, removable, reliable, and not very expensive (at least the last time I bought one it wasn't). Oh yea, the Wilson 500 is black with a stainless whip....so no worries about chrome.

Last, look at tuning. Shoot for a SWR of less than 1.2. Not hard to achieve in a application like yours. Just remember, check the SWR on channel 1 and channel 40. If the SWR is lower on 1 than 40, your antenna is too long, if 40 is lower than 1, it is too short. (I always rembember "low, low, long", as in: lower SWR on the lower channel means the antenna is too long).

One final thing....be sure to give it clean power and a solid ground. Ground the chassis too.
 

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
MaddBaggins said:
Branden Hoy is a pretty knowledgeable on CB's (BMAN on MUD). I have his cell # if you want it.

Brandon Hoy is a redneck hack who cant drive.

If you don't believe me, just look at his FJ40....what kind of self respecting man would put a coors light bottle opener on the back of a 40? And have you seen the roll cage in that thing?!?!?! Man, I'd be scared to drive that. As for his driving skills, ask him how he managed to get body damage in Box Canyon! Or get stuck between a pair of 4" tall rocks on Upper Ajax......besides, the guy makes rebar for a living....what does he know.









*disclaimer:since I can't use emoticons on this site.....and for those who don't know me, I'm being sarcastic. I've known Brandon for a number of years and have been 'wheeling with him quite a few times...but I still give him crap about that bottle opener!
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
No expense? Really? :)

Antenna:
A really bad rule of thumb is the larger antenna, the better. A 27 MHz antenna will naturally perform well on a 108/109" antenna. You simply can't beat that size for performance. If you don't want a deadly whip smacking about, I would next consider a Amateur HF antenna. They can be readily had for about $19.95 at various ham radio outlets, they're about 7' tall, and need to be snipped to reduce the length slightly. When you start looking at antenna's shorter than that, then at 4W legal power, most anything will perform quite well. You have to `load' the antenna (make it appear bigger) by putting coils into it, any antenna with the coil as high on the antenna as possible will (more bad rule of thumb) perform better.

Mounts:
Always mount as high as possible on the flattest section of sheet metal as possible. This is generally the roof. You can't BEAT drilling in and using the right mount, it makes a big difference. Ham radio stores will carry a mount for 3/8" 24thread (for most CB antennas, including those mentioned above) that seals into a roof hold and has coax already built in. Nowadays you can get some pretty thin coax that doesn't do too badly. Mag mounts do well too, but will degrade over time as the paint and `junk' in-between accumulate over months.

Coax:
Get the shortest length you can. Some people will suggest getting a 9' or 18' length. Don't listen. Why? Because that length coax CAN compensate for a bad ground where you mount it. Funny that 9 & 18 are 1/4 and 1/2 CB wavelengths: they act as counterpoise. If you've got the mount down, you're cool, stick with the shortest coax you can as to avoid all power loss.

Radio:
You got me. I've been burned on the cheap stuff, and burned on the pricey CB's in the past. Maybe someone with a little more luck may want to chime in on this one. If you're really brave you can pick up a CB with Single Side Band that can be run at legal 12W instead of the full-band 4W. However, it requires that others in your party also have SSB CB.

Power:
Goes without saying, wire directly to the batter. I wire my Ham and other accessories to my deep-cycle marine auxilliary battery which is isolated (exceput during charge) to the rest of the vehicle, I have almost zero engine noise.

Now you may say, ``but YOU put use a shorter antenna and mount it on your bull bar you hypocrite'' and yes that's all true but you did say you wanted the best performance ;-)

Are you planning on coming down to the Valley for Ham classes?
 
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MaddBaggins

Explorer
goodtimes said:
Brandon Hoy is a redneck hack who cant drive.

If you don't believe me, just look at his FJ40....what kind of self respecting man would put a coors light bottle opener on the back of a 40? And have you seen the roll cage in that thing?!?!?! Man, I'd be scared to drive that. As for his driving skills, ask him how he managed to get body damage in Box Canyon! Or get stuck between a pair of 4" tall rocks on Upper Ajax......besides, the guy makes rebar for a living....what does he know.



*disclaimer:since I can't use emoticons on this site.....and for those who don't know me, I'm being sarcastic. I've known Brandon for a number of years and have been 'wheeling with him quite a few times...but I still give him crap about that bottle opener!



LOL, sounds you you know Branden! He cracks me up. But I hadn't equated him with redneck. To me redneck is country music, copenhagen, Ford POS pick up, cowboy hat or ratty ball cap and Wranglers. That is NOT Branden.
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Brandon has...shall we say...a slightly different approach on CB equipment and performance. You may check twice about a Brandon-style setup if you publically show your vehicle.
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Remember that Scott's Taco is often on show though, the gray-area radios may not be the best to permanently mount?
 

GeoRoss

Adventurer
Well, money was an object for me w/ the CB. I also didn't want permanent mounts either. I went with the Wilson 'lil wil'. It may not be as good as the 1000 or 5000, but I was happy with its performance this past weekend. I did sometimes have problems hearing people this weekend (wah-wah-wah-wah:)) but I don't know how much this was me or them. I could usually hear Chris very well. Ed said that he could always hear Chris and me very well (before his antenna tanked). Some problems may have been just the limitations of CB's.

I just placed the mag mount just behind the sunroof. I wacked it pretty good and didn't move it a bit. Not a bad antenna for ~$35 w/ cable. For the radio I went with a 'new' Uniden 510 XL Pro (in the box, never hooked up) for $27+$8 shipping from eBay. Nothing fancy, but I can easily take it out of the truck for theft protection.

Maybe I should have gone with the Wilson 1000, time will tell. I still need to tune the antenna also.

Ross
 

Ursidae69

Expedition Leader
Hey Scott (Expeditions West),

Firestik has a great website with lots of technical articles.
http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs.htm



pskhaat said:
No expense? Really? :)

Coax:
Get the shortest length you can. Some people will suggest getting a 9' or 18' length. Don't listen. Why? Because that length coax CAN compensate for a bad ground where you mount it. Funny that 9 & 18 are 1/4 and 1/2 CB wavelengths: they act as counterpoise. If you've got the mount down, you're cool, stick with the shortest coax you can as to avoid all power loss.

Scott (pskhaat),

Over at Firestik they say:
Q Is the length of the coax cable important?
A We find that it is very important ... especially with high performance top-loaded antennas. Your safest bet is to use 18 feet (5.5 meters) coaxial leads on all of your CB installations.

Q I only needed 9 feet of coax to go from my radio to my antenna. How should I handle the excess?
A What ever you do, do not roll it into a small convenient coil. It will become an RF choke. If you cannot let it lie loose under a seat or in a headliner, wrap it into a yarn-like skein of about 12 to 16 inches, put a wire tie in the center and tuck it under your dash, seat, etc.

Why do you have different recommendations on the length?
 

Scott Brady

Founder
Thanks so much everyone. Time for more research... I am leaning towards a through the roof mount with a long stainless whip.

Time to go look at radios.
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Ursidae69 said:
Why do you have different recommendations on the length?

Mostly because you have a lot of power loss and impedance mismatch potential in the coax during transmit. I'm pretty sure the 9/18 ft recommendations are to get vendors antenna's to tune the best and thus those lengths can give false positive readings. I don't think it's any conspiracy, just that a no-ground-plane antenna and marine installations (for instance) can use the coax as the radiating other quarter of the 1/2 wave.

I'm of the thought that if you've grounded (RF/AC grounded) your antenna, your feed line exact length should be the least of your worries and will more accurately represent the true state of the whole system when it's as short as possible.

You really can do a LOT of 4 watts, but 4 watts is pretty low, why risk it by making your effective radatiating power any less.
 

asteffes

Explorer
The most effective solution to your CB woes is for you and your travel mates to all get your Technician class amateur radio licenses and start using VHF/UHF gear. 2 meter or 440MHz ham gear will *blow away* any CB or FRS gear ever made. :ar15: :smilies27
 

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