Help determining Montero Purchase!!!

Hey Guys,

I have been looking for a more comfortable Expo vehicle the last few months and am narrowing my choices to a 100 series cruiser and a Montero like Silverwulf's. The Land Cruiser is my top choice but the price on tag is nerve racking, and the Montero's have similar suspension and size.

I was wondering what I should look for on prices, years, etc as well as issues that may come around with a Montero (spark plugs, leaking?) I have not seen many GenII.5's for sale at all however so I am skeptical if I can even find what I am looking for.

I just am finishing up a bout of food poisoning so my post is just like my weekend- regurgatated, but I will give you some background on what I am looking for in summary:

Silverwulfs style Monty for sale
Comparisons of 100 Series
Quirks and traits of the Monty in question
Other ideas maybe?


I drive an 88 Cherokee and while it is a beast, it is built for offroading and the highway is unmanagable. I would love a vehicle that is quiet on the inside, smooth on the highway, and can tackle Utah's roads in the winter and dirt roads in the summer. My final goal of a monty would be either cranking the Tbars/2 inch lift and 33's, and armor, and be able to cruise at 75 on the highways up and down most hills.

Thanks for putting up with my spew

Topgun514 said:

Hey Guys,

I have been looking for a more comfortable Expo vehicle the last few months and am narrowing my choices to a 100 series cruiser and a Montero like Silverwulf's. The Land Cruiser is my top choice but the price on tag is nerve racking, and the Montero's have similar suspension and size.

I was wondering what I should look for on prices, years, etc as well as issues that may come around with a Montero (spark plugs, leaking?) I have not seen many GenII.5's for sale at all however so I am skeptical if I can even find what I am looking for.

I just am finishing up a bout of food poisoning so my post is just like my weekend- regurgatated, but I will give you some background on what I am looking for in summary:

Silverwulfs style Monty for sale
Comparisons of 100 Series
Quirks and traits of the Monty in question
Other ideas maybe?


I drive an 88 Cherokee and while it is a beast, it is built for offroading and the highway is unmanagable. I would love a vehicle that is quiet on the inside, smooth on the highway, and can tackle Utah's roads in the winter and dirt roads in the summer. My final goal of a monty would be either cranking the Tbars/2 inch lift and 33's, and armor, and be able to cruise at 75 on the highways up and down most hills.

Thanks for putting up with my spew

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I have the slightly more powerful DOHC 3.5L v6 in my 96 SR. That said...
LC100=12-15mpg / Montero=14-18mpg - I get 12-15mpg running 35's geared up and heavy. IMHO this is one major weakness of the modern (after FJ40) LC model line as a whole.

With 35's I can easily cruise 75-85mph and faster if I wanted to and although the gen 2.5 has slightly less power I'm sure you'll be fine with 33's.

Major mechanical issue with Montero v6's are their valve guide seals dry out every 50k miles or so and you end up having a smoky exhaust especially after a cold start or extended idle. To repair this you need to replace the valve guide seals however a valve job should not be required (although some mechanics will try to sell you on having one done).

Gen II's also have a Central Axle Disconnect versus automatic/manual hubs. When buying a used rig it's common to find the previous owner NEVER engaged 4WD so the lubrication at the actuator may be sticky and it will appear to not disconnect properly. Don't worry, it's usually just the indicator system needing to be cycled a few times and not the 4x4 system itself. You can also install manual hubs so you can disconnect the hubs from your axles to minimize wear on the axles when only driving in 2wd.

They are not as common as other rigs but IMHO that's a benefit.

As for your needs, it's definitely more than capable in near stock form unless you're doing the hardest trails in Moab or something like that in which case I'd suggest at least going to 32" tires and adding armor to the rocker panel area.

how hard is it to replace the valve seals?

And is it true the spark plugs are underneath the intake manifold and you need to rip this apart to change a plug?

Topgun514 said:

how hard is it to replace the valve seals?

And is it true the spark plugs are underneath the intake manifold and you need to rip this apart to change a plug?

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Seals can be done w/out removing the heads but you do need a tool to compress the spring during the r&r process. You also need to use LP air or small diameter rope to prevent the valves from dropping into the cylinder when you do it. Most shops though will suggest you do your valves at that time. depending on mileage, it may be advisable. Not sure the interval on a valve job however.

The 3.5 SOHC and DOHC both recommend the long life plugs because normally you are required to remove the intake to access them. Stick with NGK or denso iridiums. Many who have tried other iridium plugs from other manufacturers (Champion, Bosch, etc.) have found they fail much more quickly than the NGK and denso's in the Mitsu engine.

In terms of accessing the plugs, with some model of the Gen 2/2.6 Montero v6 engines you can to leave one or more of the bolts that hold the plastic plug hole covers in place off (the ones that are hard to reach). This way, you can easily remove the cover the next time around w/out completely removing the intake. Once the cover is removed it's possible to remove the plug with copious use of an array of wobble/universal joints & your socket wrench.

I really can't offer much in terms of tech, as I am still very green here myself, but I would like to mention that Mitsubishis, in general, tend to get a bad rap - most of it undeserved. I don't know that I would consider my favorite brand on-par with the likes of Toyota, but Mitsubishi was at the top of their game in the 90s. I'd chalk a good 90% of all the horror stories you might have heard about Mitsus to owner neglect.

I've been driving Mitsubishis exclusively since 1996 (save a short summer in a Volvo 245 while saving my totaled Galant). The cars, the company, the culture are truly world class. I now daily drive a Gen I because I originally walked into a Jeep-Eagle dealership to buy a Wrangler and drove out in a 97 Eagle Talon (Mitsubishi Eclipse). When it came time to finally lay down my childish, tarmac ways and buy my first truck, I ONLY considered the Monteros because I have that much faith in both them and the global community of Mitsubishi enthusiasts.

Overall, I suspect you should be able to save money buying a Mitsubishi over its contemporary Toyota, but repair/maintain/build with a purpose and attention to detail (as we should any automotive project), and the Monty, if it's anything like the other Mitsubishis I've had the pleasure of owning in the last decade plus, will be the trustiest of sidekicks.

Take the path less traveled. Press on regardless.

Plus one DR1665, well written.

True, the air intake plenum has to come out for a plug change, but it's not as daunting as it may look. On the 3.8l most of the bolts are easily accessible save for the one at the rear, hidden behind the plenum itself. Mitsu electrics use different connectors at each junction with logical cable stays and routing making reassembly easy. Aside from keeping track of a few vacuum lines with a snap of your camera phone, there's not much else to worry about.

During...



Removing the filter box and plumbing and the battery makes access easier and doesn't take long to reinstall. Two hours on the job.



This is my second Gen 3. Lost the first one in a divorce. For the money you can't go wrong. Some common issues are thermostat temp sending faults, and the middle seat release and tilt mechanism is its achilles, the cable fails if not released correctly locking the seat in place. It can be repaired, $200 at the dealer. Mine failed again shortly after the repair. I disassembled the middle jump seat to see how the mechanism works and found how the seat can be released. Fodder for another thread.

Good luck on your choice and I hope you'e feeling better.

Imnosaint said:

Plus one DR1665, well written.

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Thank you, sir. Appreciate that.

Imnosaint said:

This is my second Gen 3.

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89 Raider is my 4th Mitsubishi.

Bought my 97 Eagle Talon (re-badged Mitsubishi Eclipse) brand new in 1996. Put over 210,000 miles on that car. 14 years later, I decided to base my rally car build on the limited edition Galant VR4. Familiar with those Lancer Evolutions with the vented hoods and huge carbon fiber wings? GVR4 is the original dating back to the late-80s. Such a neat car, I couldn't bear to be without one when I stuff the rally car in a ditch, so I grabbed a second. I've been daily driving my 92 Galant VR4 with approaching 200k on the odo (original engine, by the way) for the better part of three years.

Worth mentioning, if you're anywhere near Cypress, California, Normal, Illinois, or New Jersey, Mitsubishi North America hosts MOD - Mitsubishi Owner Day - each year at each of these locations. Great place to see a lot of fast cars, meet a lot of awesome people, and feel appreciated by an OEM.

Imnosaint said:

thermostat temp sending faults

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I've run into this on every one of my Mitsubishis. Temp sending unit fails, sends bogus info to ECU, which then fuels/times poorly. Car runs like crap. Often takes first-timers a lot of cussing and spitting to figure it out. Once you've experienced it, though, it's usually a $20 sensor at Autozone and 10 minutes to replace. Then it doesn't seem to act up ever again. YMMV.

DR1665 said:

I've run into this on every one of my Mitsubishis. Temp sending unit fails, sends bogus info to ECU, which then fuels/times poorly. Car runs like crap. Often takes first-timers a lot of cussing and spitting to figure it out. Once you've experienced it, though, it's usually a $20 sensor at Autozone and 10 minutes to replace. Then it doesn't seem to act up ever again. YMMV.

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Interesting I don't believe I've run into it with any of my Mitsu's. I'm on my 4th v6 Montero (a 90, another 90, an 89, and a 96SR) and have yet to have issues with that.

And I've never owned a Mitsubishi V6, so it could be related to the 4-bangers. Just thought it was weird that it's worth mentioning.

DR1665 said:

And I've never owned a Mitsubishi V6, so it could be related to the 4-bangers. Just thought it was weird that it's worth mentioning.

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Absolutely is worth mentioning. I know I just learned from it.

Sure thing, boss. If it helps, when they fail - at least on the 4G63 and 420A - they tend to report sub-freezing coolant temps, forcing the ECU into warm-up enrichment. Typically rears its head in spring or fall, when it's cold in the morning/evening/night, but warm in the afternoon. Engine starts fine cold, runs like a champ, but shut it off to do some shopping in the afternoon, and it runs like crap when you re-start warm, it's a good thing to check. Also tends to result in unburnt fuel (soot) above tailpipe.

HTH

DR1665 said:

Sure thing, boss. If it helps, when they fail - at least on the 4G63 and 420A - they tend to report sub-freezing coolant temps, forcing the ECU into warm-up enrichment. Typically rears its head in spring or fall, when it's cold in the morning/evening/night, but warm in the afternoon. Engine starts fine cold, runs like a champ, but shut it off to do some shopping in the afternoon, and it runs like crap when you re-start warm, it's a good thing to check. Also tends to result in unburnt fuel (soot) above tailpipe. HTH

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That's interesting. I do recall some folks posting problems with similar symptoms on one of the many forums I frequent. Montero started fine they stop at a store somewhere, then when they leave had issues with it running right. Same thing happened the following day.

Could very well be the case. The biggest tip-off to these problems are people saying things like, "It runs fine until it warms up. Then it doesn't want to start any more." If nothing else seems awry, hook up an OBDII reader and check the CLT reading. If it's negative 45 degrees, it's a good bet. For those without OBD, there's always the old resistance check in cold/hot water, but for $20, if it's never been replaced, it's worth a shot, imo.

Hey Top Gun, give me a call and we can take my 2000 Montero out for a spin. I live next to Lagoon in Farmington. It only has 30K miles on it and it rides great. The best way to decide if you like Montero's is to drive them. While I have never owned a FJ100, I have been a Toyota Landcruiser guy through the years and I have owned two really nice fj80's with lockers. While both of my cruisers were great, I definitely prefer the Montero for several reasons which I have listed below. My father went offroading with the family yesterday and he commented several times how he liked the Gen II.5 Montero much better than my FJ80's. He spent about 3-4 hour behind the wheel and he just loved it and he owns nothing but Toyota's.

First, Montero seems to move much better than my Landcruisers did. While Monty has less torque, Mitsubishi makes up for any short comings in its gearing.
Second, I get a lot better gas mileage in my Montero, Yesterday I went down and played along the San Rafael Swell clear down to Hanksville and I averaged 22mpg with 7 people and all our gear. My FJ80 never got better than 13-14mpg.
Third, the transfercase has a 2wd High mode, which really helps for daily handling and it's much easier on tires and front end components. But it also has the AWD, 4hi and 4lo modes like the Land Cruisers.
Forth, the Montero has considerably more leg room in the rear seat. The second row is actually comfortable, so if you carry passengers that may be a big consideration.
Fifth, the spare tire is not located under the vehicle. This was a big issue on my Cruisers because the rear would drag on everything, even though I had a 3" lift and 33" tires. To get the tire out of the way will cost over $1500 on a Land Cruiser.
Sixth, I think the drive train is stronger. The axles are larger than those on the Cruisers and the trannies are larger and shift much smoother. The trannies in the Montero shift sooo smooth. The trannies in my cruisers were always hunting for the right gear. The Monty engine is also much more refined than the 4.5L in my Cruisers.


Do get me wrong, I loved both of my FJ80's, but as far as an expedition rig goes, I would take the Montero every time. It more comfortable drive and ride in. It's also more reliable and it get much better gas mileage. Feel free to give me a call, I am just in Farmington and I will help you find a nice Monty.

Spence
722-5517

Thank Spence, I sent you a text about potentially meeting this weekend. I would be glad to come up and take a gander at your ride! Especially if we could find one too!