Winches!

brushogger said:

The main reason we have one is my wife and I travel alone most of the time. We're not stupid, but sometimes $&@" happens. In some situations, it's also easier to tread lightly with a winch vs spinning tires.

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Exactly why we're putting one on.

LR Max said:

This is interesting. My last experience with superwinch was probably 10 years ago. Was not a positive experience. Could be that Warn has stood still all these years while superwinch moved forward.

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See what Bill Burke has to say about Superwinch. Of course, just like Warn, they have both pricey and not-too-pricey models.

The more winches on the market the better. Competition is good for the consumer. .

MOguy said:

If speed is important my Warns line speed is 62 feet per second.

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Not with a 12.5 rating like the SW.

proper4wd said:

Not with a 12.5 rating like the SW.

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Not sure but the speeds with their 12K winches. We have been talking about are with no weight times. With the Talon 9500lb winch with a load on it is much much slower than the Warn HS. I would suspect the same may be true of their other winches. Both manufactures have a variety of lines. Some faster some slower, some cheaper some more expensive.

UpperCrust said:

My MB 917 truck weighs about 8k dry. I put two 16.5lbs ComeUp Winches on it (Front and Rear). I figure 16,500lbs is fine for sand and whatnot, but mub I would want to snatch block it to get some extra pulling power. But if you ever might be in the backcountry alone, you need a winch. Yes you might never use it, but if you get stuck, alone, with no cell service, you need a way to get un-stuck.

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I'd love to see a photo or two of your winch setup on your MB917 if you don't mind sharing?

Love my 8274. The reliability has been phenomenal. In 25 years of back country travel, I have only owned two winches. Both are Warn, I still have them both and they both still work. I am sure other manufacturers make good products too but I won't sway from what has worked for me.

LR Max said:

Also I disagree with "you don't need line speed". Yes. You do. A few reasons: 1st off, if you are recovered faster, then less wear and tear on your winch. Sounds counter intuitive, but what kills winches is holding that button down for long periods of time. Slow line speed, you are winching longer. Faster line speed, done.

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This is wrong for the right reasons, but wrong nonetheless. It's not holding down the button that kills the winch, it's heat that kills the winch, which is what you're spending for more line speed. Heat for speed. She might be rolling slower but odds are its doing it for way less heat, which means less wear and tear on the winch. I'll take slow and steady every day of the week thank you, and my winch will thank me for it, and my batteries will thank me for it.

How are you equating more speed with more heat and a faster winch with being detrimental to the battery? Longer time of use can increase heat generated, can use more energy, no matter what winch you use.
Like a faster winch or slower winch, that's a matter of preference. You can't just make the correlation that faster = hotter and consumes more battery power.

Well, from the physics standpoint, it takes exactly the same amount of work to winch out fast or slow. Same number of Joules, same amount of friction in the recovery system, same amount of heat generated. You can't cheat the universe and get away with spending less energy by doing this quickly, nor will you generate less friction (and therefore heat) by doing it slowly.

What you CAN do by going slowly or by stopping a few times is to allow the heat to dissipate, cooling the winch. This doesn't mean that slow is better, it simply means that you have to be thoughtful about what you're doing and use the tool appropriately.

If you're thinking that overcoming inertia and maintaining momentum will be more efficient if done once rather than multiple times, there is indeed an argument for this. In practical application, however, with the wheels rolling, the differences in the total amount of energy expenditure won't be significant.

No. What I'm saying is differences in winches like motor HP, torque, gearing, drum diameter, friction can cause differences in heat build up and energy use. Just because one winch is faster doesn't necessarily make it run hotter or use more energy. Time IS a factor in both.

Wow. People act like a "fast" winch is like, some sort of race-car winch machine of death. Just waiting to run out of control and kill.

Unless you've got one of those specialty winches the boys over in the UK cook up (twin motors, 30% higher gearing, etc), even the "fast" ones aren't really that fast. Sure the fast ones have a fast no-load line speed, but then they get down to a reasonable speed under load. Sure, you can get your hand caught in it, if you aren't paying attention. Just like anything else. And then the slow ones, its like waiting in line at the DMV.

Also if you've ever been stuck behind a bunch of trucks, coming up on an obstacle, and everyone has a cheap, slow winch, you are there...forever. Then the cheap ones break down, now you've gotta deal with that...

In relation to "killing your winch". Yeah heat, blah blah blah on the motor. Sure. But the motors can typically take it. Its the solenoid pack that'll get toasted. Except for the "solid state" (or whatever) solenoids, regular solenoids get temperamental after winching for a long time. Add load to that, they tend to give up the ghost. Mine get pissed off after a while.

Slow sucks when it comes to taking up slack while the wheels are churning too. If slow = the illusion of control then I guess that works for some. Most winches, with a few exceptions, are relatively the same speed with a load on them. No load speed is nice to have though.

The real advantage of a fast winch like an 8274 (besides the classic look, and long term durability) is the speed at which you can wind up your cable after a pull. Some winches it's 5 minutes or more when you're ready to get moving. With the 8274, it's like 1 minute. Same when spooling out. You would almost never spool out a normal winch, because it's working against the drum brake. Not so in an 8274, and it winds out under power almost faster than you can pull it out freespool.

As others have said, under load, it isn't that much faster.

How fast do people REALLY need to recover? Are we all secretly European winch challenge competitors? While I love old upright winches with a passion, they just don't fit on most vehicles, especially modern ones. Just about all the $500 and up winches are getting pretty dang good for the money.....smittybilt, Quadratec, etc. Most people don't need to recover their vehicle THAT often....nor that quickly. Even a basic 8000lb winch will drain most stock vehicles electrical system in short order, faster winching basically puts even more stress on the electrical system.

I have yet to see anyone drain their electrical system using their winch. I'm sure it can happen if you're system is defective (not a winch problem) or if the person using it is a numbskull (again, not a winch problem). If we're talking modern vehicles, most have relatively high output alternators. Load generates larger electrical demand, not speed. It's all kind of irrelevant as the operator can't vary the speed on an electric winch. You get what you get when you buy what ever model you choose.