Skool me on the 80 series!

[MoGas]

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

Dave, I was hoping you would chime in on this thread. I'm starting to worry less about the lockers and more about finding a quality vehicle. I was hoping to test drive another LC tonight but it was purchased before we could arrange a time to meet. I did get to drive another 3rd gen 4Runner with the rear locker and it was in great condition considering the age. It is #1 on my list right now but there is one more LC I'd still like to check out.

Here are my concerns right now on LC v. 4Runner:

gas mileage
maintenance
overall condition
cost to modify
overall bang for my buck

So far I've only been able to find this in a 4Runner, but that could be because the last LC we looked at scared me!

If you don't need another vehicle right now, don't force it and end up settling on something you may not be 100% happy with. You are in the driver's seat here.

Let me address each of your concerns.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

gas mileage

I get a consistent city 12.25mpg with the extra weight of sliders, winch, ARB bumper, and regular gear I keep in there along with having 33" tires. My speedometer is not corrected at this time. I have a TruSpeed to install to correct my speedometer, just not had the time to mess with it. I calculated a full day of mixed driving with my GPS and it was 13.35mpg. So I guess that somewhere between 13-13.5 is my actual mileage for mixed DD use, there is always some wheeling in the tank too. Probably 7-10 miles of 4Lo per tank.

Highway only, I get 17.5 mpg uncorrected. So probably mid 18 in reality.

I could shed some weight and bring those numbers up, but why chance being unprepared if I want to hop into the forest for a bit.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

maintenance

This is a touchy area. If you buy a car with lower miles, it should require less to bring it up to a good baselined status. A Land Cruiser asks little of it's keeper. If you are looking at one between 80-120K, the only really big issue to address is the birfs. If you can't do it yourself, it will be around 700 bucks to have done. Otherwise, it is about a 10 hour job for a first timer with ~250 bucks in parts. I would recommend buying the parts and bring it up here for me to teach you how to do them properly on a Saturday.....I work for and .
Other things to address would be the PHH, again, not a big deal. 20 bucks in hose and nice clamps and an hour max to do it.

More miles and you would be advised to have someone from Copper State Cruisers go over it with you. (Do you go to the CSC section on Mud?)

To baseline any "new" used vehicle, I do the full fluid change out (diffs, transfer, tranny, engine, coolant, power steering, brake), new belts, radiator hoses, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, air filter and brakes. So that cost would be a wash between a Cruiser or any other 4x4 you decide on.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

overall condition

This is objective to any vehicle you look at. We have 2 cruisers, my 93 and my wife's 88 FJ62 (204k) They are still both very solid vehicles, with few, if any rattles or squeaks. In Arizona, the paint may have the clear coat blown on it and sun damage to the interior. This is where I would lean towards the LX450. Most have been garage kept and probably were in shades at the office. Due to the initial cost, they were likely sold to executive types or doctors or spent a little time in the sun while parked at the club. Then again, my Cruiser came from an Anesthesiologist in Paradise Valley. Both of ours have wear on the driver's seat, but that's about it for the interior wear.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

cost to modify

Lift:
OME for the LC is ~875 at Cruiser Outfitters and that is for various systems up to 4" and it takes me about an two hours to do an OME 2.5 inch system including CC bushings.

Depending on the year, it looks like OME suspensions for the 4Runners are between 650 and 850. I don't have any experience with install on these, so I can't say how long it should take or cost to install.

Snorkels, bull bars and other armor should be close enough to not matter price wise.

I don't know of any companies that make drawer systems for the back of the 4Runner.

I say advantage 80 on this, because I prefer a solid axle over IFS.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

overall bang for my buck

Value is perceived when the quality (or service) exceeds the expectations.

I again, have to lean towards the 80, but I am biased.



The FZJ 80 has been around long enough to see people with 300k on the clock and still going strong. I personally, have seen the cylinders of a 200k 1FZ-FE and they were not out of round in any way and still had good cross hatch in the cylinders. On any V type engine, you will get cylinder wear due to gravity pulling on the pistons against the bottom of the cylinders, so I am a fan of inline engines as far as durability and longevity.

Oddly, I was just going over a 99 4Runner for a friend. It seemed small inside compared to the 80 and seemed to have a lighter feel to it. I prefer a tailgate to a lift gate and I'm not a fan of roll down rear glass.


Don't get emotional about a vehicle.
Do take someone else that knows those specific vehicles with you.
Do spend the 100 bucks to get it looked over by a reputable Toyota mechanic.
Don't go at night.
Do take notes and get back to them.
Rely on your gut.
Don't be afraid of miles if the maintenance is well documented.

Nice 80s are out there cheap. You just have to be patient. Here was a good one that went for $4750 or less with lockers. I would have bought it if it would have been around a few more days.


Dave

[weezerbot]

Thank you Dave for all of your great insight; I must say you've got me thinking.

Originally Posted by MoGas

I get a consistent city 12.25mpg with the extra weight of sliders, winch, ARB bumper, and regular gear I keep in there along with having 33" tires. My speedometer is not corrected at this time. I have a TruSpeed to install to correct my speedometer, just not had the time to mess with it. I calculated a full day of mixed driving with my GPS and it was 13.35mpg. So I guess that somewhere between 13-13.5 is my actual mileage for mixed DD use, there is always some wheeling in the tank too. Probably 7-10 miles of 4Lo per tank.

Highway only, I get 17.5 mpg uncorrected. So probably mid 18 in reality.

I could shed some weight and bring those numbers up, but why chance being unprepared if I want to hop into the forest for a bit.

This right now is my #1 concern. I don't commute nearly as far as most folks do here in the valley (about 50 miles per week + errands), but it is enough that this summer when gas prices were over $4/gal it was costing me upwards of $70/week to dd the FJ and that was a killer. Since I'm only working part time right now (and unless I find something for the summer to supplement, I won't be working come June), I just can't do that again. I don't mind spending the money for a vacation or weekend trip, but I just can't be spending that kind of money on gas again for at least the next year.

Originally Posted by MoGas

This is a touchy area. If you buy a car with lower miles, it should require less to bring it up to a good baselined status. A Land Cruiser asks little of it's keeper. If you are looking at one between 80-120K, the only really big issue to address is the birfs. If you can't do it yourself, it will be around 700 bucks to have done. Otherwise, it is about a 10 hour job for a first timer with ~250 bucks in parts. I would recommend buying the parts and bring it up here for me to teach you how to do them properly on a Saturday.....I work for and .
Other things to address would be the PHH, again, not a big deal. 20 bucks in hose and nice clamps and an hour max to do it.

More miles and you would be advised to have someone from Copper State Cruisers go over it with you. (Do you go to the CSC section on Mud?)

To baseline any "new" used vehicle, I do the full fluid change out (diffs, transfer, tranny, engine, coolant, power steering, brake), new belts, radiator hoses, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, air filter and brakes. So that cost would be a wash between a Cruiser or any other 4x4 you decide on.

I am over on mud and the csc section, but not nearly as much as other sites, so I don't really know any of the cruiser guys personally here in Phoenix. I really appreciate your offer to help with these things, I'm currently looking at a cruiser that is on Mud now, no lockers and 175k miles but otherwise nicely built: http://tinyurl.com/635fph I haven't been able to get a return email or phone call today on this though. Do you consider this 'excessive' miles?

Originally Posted by MoGas

This is objective to any vehicle you look at. We have 2 cruisers, my 93 and my wife's 88 FJ62 (204k) They are still both very solid vehicles, with few, if any rattles or squeaks. In Arizona, the paint may have the clear coat blown on it and sun damage to the interior. This is where I would lean towards the LX450. Most have been garage kept and probably were in shades at the office. Due to the initial cost, they were likely sold to executive types or doctors or spent a little time in the sun while parked at the club. Then again, my Cruiser came from an Anesthesiologist in Paradise Valley. Both of ours have wear on the driver's seat, but that's about it for the interior wear.

I have been looking for an LX and man are they hard to find. So far I've only found one and it is still far beyond the budget.

Originally Posted by MoGas

Lift:
OME for the LC is ~875 at Cruiser Outfitters and that is for various systems up to 4" and it takes me about an two hours to do an OME 2.5 inch system including CC bushings.

Depending on the year, it looks like OME suspensions for the 4Runners are between 650 and 850. I don't have any experience with install on these, so I can't say how long it should take or cost to install.

Snorkels, bull bars and other armor should be close enough to not matter price wise.

I don't know of any companies that make drawer systems for the back of the 4Runner.

I say advantage 80 on this, because I prefer a solid axle over IFS.

If I even put a drawer system in the back we would probably build it (with the help of Don) like we did for the FJ. A lot of the drawer systems out there are nice but I just can't swallow some of the prices people ask for that stuff. Unless someone wants to sponsor me of course I would be happy to test it out for them! Although some of the prices for mods are comparable, it seems to me there are a lot more companies out there making stuff for the 4Runner than the LC, but maybe I'm just not familiar with all the aftermarket specialists. Sliders are a good example, I can get the All Pro sliders we have for the FJ (which I LOVE) for the 4Runner for around $300, but most of the sliders I've seen for the LC are $600-800.

Originally Posted by MoGas

Oddly, I was just going over a 99 4Runner for a friend. It seemed small inside compared to the 80 and seemed to have a lighter feel to it. I prefer a tailgate to a lift gate and I'm not a fan of roll down rear glass.

I do love the amount of room in the LC, but I keep asking myself if I need it? Coming from the FJ, even the 4Runner seems huge on the inside and most of the time it would be carrying myself, + Josh, +maybe the dog at times. We don't have kids (and don't plan on having any) and only have 1 dog (and don't plan on having more than one at a time ever again), so I'm not really needing a family hauler. As for camping we pretty much have it down to a science and any camping done in this vehicle would most likely just be me and the dog anyway since the FJ is more set up for that kind of thing (RTT and such). I would probably have to agree with you on the tailgate theory, but I can also see the roll down rear window being a plus for the dog.

I'm certainly not going to rush into anything, but I'm pretty happy with the 4Runner we drove today. Considering tomorrow is Sunday I'm anxiously awaiting the new listings that will hopefully be coming out, and maybe the LC guy I'm waiting on will finally return my call.

Thanks again, and any of you 4Runner people out there feel free to chime in!

[MoGas]

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

Thank you Dave for all of your great insight; I must say you've got me thinking........

Do you consider this 'excessive' miles?

175 isn't high, especially with the work that has supposedly been done. Ask for documentation and walk if he balks at the request. The price seems a little on the high side. probably 4-5k would be more realistic. He didn't detail it for the pics. Which on one hand is good because he isn't hiding anything behind shiny hoses. Pulling a head unit and speakers is sort of a cheeseball move too. The lift is all cobbled together and everyone knows that you don't let the suspension articulation limit be the shocks. Have the panhard bars been modified? (highly recommended at 4").

Post a thread for help on the CSC and you will get a great response.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

I have been looking for an LX and man are they hard to find. So far I've only found one and it is still far beyond the budget.

Here's a nice one with lockers and good mileage.

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

...Sliders are a good example, I can get the All Pro sliders we have for the FJ (which I LOVE) for the 4Runner for around $300, but most of the sliders I've seen for the LC are $600-800.

Sliders on an 80 are tougher to design because of the location of the cats. More steel and fab time=more money.


They are strong enough to lift an 80 off the ground, though.

[weezerbot]

Ya I went through his postings on mud last night and it sounds like he's had that truck for sale for a very long time..originally posted in 2006 before most of the mods and he was asking $9k back then. Seems he is in no real hurry to get rid of it, and maybe keeps listing it to appease the wife? I'm still going to go post up on CSC and see what they have to say.

That LX you linked me too sure is a beauty, but again too far over budget. We are looking to stay in the $5k range, which really seems to limit our 'quality' choices.

I've been thinking about it more and more and right now the 4Runner just seems to be the more economical choice...in price and gas mileage. It will get me where I need to go for now and keep me entertained on the weekends long enough to finish up school and get back to working full time....maybe by then I can find a 97 LX still in good condition to pick up or 60 series I can afford to make into an off road machine.

I really appreciate all the help from everyone who has joined in on this thread, this is what makes the EXPO community so awesome!

[SOAZ]

Originally Posted by Miss R2FJ

Ok I've kind of looked around here at the various threads of info on the 80's series and a lot of it has been helpful but I need basics. We are toying with the idea of adding an 80 series to the stable, of course we want the factory lockers, low miles, moonroof would be nice etc but it doesn't have to be all decked out (as in no we don't want to pay more than 5 or 6k for it). But what do we need to be aware of??

Anything that is troublesome on this series that should need to be repaired or looked out for? Anything we need to know specifically? Any mods that are must haves/must nots/or must stay away from??

And if anyone knows of a clean model for sale in their area please let me know!

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[weezerbot]

Originally Posted by SOAZ

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I've been waiting for you my friend....tell me about your 4Runner......

[Life_in_4Lo]

The 4Runner will certainly get better mpg's stock but once you mod it, it will still be similar to the LC I think.
Also, why get the 3rd gen 4Runner when you already have the FJCruiser? It seems like more of the same- ifs, similar size except the FJC gets better mpg's and is more powerful.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 3rd Gen 4Runners but in this case, it seems like buying something just for the sake of default choice logic.

Don't buy based on what you don't want. Buy what you want.

[weezerbot]

Originally Posted by Life_in_4Lo

The 4Runner will certainly get better mpg's stock but once you mod it, it will still be similar to the LC I think.
Also, why get the 3rd gen 4Runner when you already have the FJCruiser? It seems like more of the same- ifs, similar size except the FJC gets better mpg's and is more powerful.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 3rd Gen 4Runners but in this case, it seems like buying something just for the sake of default choice logic.

Don't buy based on what you don't want. Buy what you want.

Well as I stated before, Josh is going to be taking over driving the FJC full time, so I need my own thing that will be my daily driver and weekend fun when he can't go out. The FJ is a new vehicle that has had a lot of miles put on it this last year, and as much as I love it we will probably not keep it forever so it needs to stay in somewhat a respectable state. I have a lot more opportunities to go out on Fridays or the weekends than Josh does right now, so I need something of my own to beat on that I will care less about if something should happen to it.

As for the gas mileage, the stock FJ does get better...but not ours!

Right now, working only very part time and going to school buying what I want just isn't practical. Hell, if I could buy what I want it would just be a Sportmobile, or new Tacoma double cab.....but I can't afford either of those, and I will not continue to put finishing my degree on hold because of bills for things I can live without right now. I've always liked the 4Runners as well, and we've been trying for at least 2 years to get Josh's mom to sell us hers but she wont.

As for the LC listed above, he finally got back to me and as I thought is in no hurry to sell...needs it for relatives right now so it won't be available until after the 1st of the year.

[OneTime]

Heidi PM sent

[Brian894x4]

It's been a few weeks since I've been on this board and I kind of scanned through this thread pretty quick, so if I'm rehashing old advise, I'm apologize.

I have page on my site that kind of covers a lot of things and mods and technical info regarding the 80 in general and my 80...

http://www.brian894x4.com/Expedition...iserFZJ80.html

Knowing what I know now, if I had to buy another 80 to replace mine or get a 2nd one, here's what I'd be looking for.

I prefer the 95-97 generation, because I like the interior/dash set up better and there's a few minor upgrades. I have a scan gauge which works with the OBD II set up and is seriously nice to have. The only disadvantage I see is the A343 transmission, which is not necessarily weaker, but does have a few issues especially on 95 and 96 models with the reserve on some rigs. Supposedly this was fixed on 1997 models and the 100 series, which uses the same tranny has no major issues at all.

I'd try to find a 1997 model if possible, but my personal priority with be a rig with as low miles as humanly possible. Preferable under or as close 100K as possible. This would make baselining the rig much easier and would give me far more life and confidence in the vehicle over the years that I owned it.

Someone mentioned LX450s. I'd seriously considering getting one for numerous reasons. One being that they are harder to sell because they often are listed as Lexus LX450s in the ads and few Land Cruiser buyers actually do a search for Lexus and most people interested in Lexus vehicles don't want the LX450. The owners were generally very wealthy, because they were even more expensive than the Land Cruiser, which typically cost around $60-70K in today's money. My '95 cost $48K to the original owner back in 1995. And the LX450s very often have extremely low mileage. I've seen some with as low as 60,000 miles.

To make a long story, my personal priority in Land Cruisers is (1) low mileage (2) low number of owners (3) overall condition (4) years 95-97 (5) lockers.

I saw a lot of comments about lockers. My rig didn't come with lockers, but had very low mileage, was local, not one spec of rust and I was the 3rd owner, so I had no problem overlooking lockers, but pricing out what it's cost me to install two ARBs, it's not cheap.

I don't have the exact price, especially some of the deal involved trading, but just the lockers alone are somewhere in the neighborhood of $800-900 a piece. Currency fluxuations between US and Australia will affect this price. But then you have the cost of installation into the diffs. I did my own plumbing and wiring and then there's the pump and other parts. I'd guess at least $3000+ for two lockers. Which really makes finding a rig with factory lockers attractive, since typically the factory lockers has little to no affect on the price of the rig these days.