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Thread: transporting diesel in 55 gal drums??

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma
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    16
    NOT FUNNY at all. Perhaps you missed where I said I had friends KILLED that day! If it had happened literally one min later I would be dead with them.
    Last edited by Kellikastle; 03-28-2013 at 12:58 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    16
    WOW, only silence! hummm...
    OK so, I am planning to put dual RV water tanks under the bed, 35+gal in front and 15-20gal in the back, so no putting the fuel tanks back down there. At least one drum of fuel will go in the trailer hidden by the truck bed shell. If it is only one 55gal drum it will be center front mounted and fill/ pump from the "pass through" window of the camper shell, those will be replaced with metal doors/hatches. One drum will give me 1000+ miles of range and have less noticeable sloshing/movement when cornering or braking. Less than 400 additional pounds of weight. Besides, just the 55 gal of pump diesel will run near $250. If it was not illegal to run filtered used cooking oil mixed with 1/3 diesel, it would only be around $70 of pump fuel. (Illegal as in, IRS "road tax" evasion and a $32,500 per day fine from the EPA for running "non approved" fuel on roads) Too bad it is a criminal act, it is the only "carbon negative" fuel available, SVO emits less carbon than the plants used to make it took in and only 1/3 the sulfur emissions when mixed with 1/3 pump fuel. Even running "red" agricultural diesel is a far, far smaller ticket....and that still dumps carbon and sulfur in to the air. Funny how a near free and Eco-friendly fuel is against the law.
    WVO/SVO runs afoul of the EPA Clean Air Act for a few reasons:

    WVO/SVO has never been certified as a fuel
    Running an uncertified fuel on public roads is a violation of the clean air act ($32,500/day)
    Any modification of a vehicle that allows you too run an uncertified fuel is a violation ($2,750)
    http://www.biodieseldiscussion.com/f...ad.php?t=20420
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...grease-car.htm

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    CDA, Id
    Posts
    1,266
    Look into a transfer tank that goes in the bed, I see them on craigslist from time to time. Its lower than a 55 gallon drum so trailer will handle better, it will be easier to hide with shell on, and they are usually DOT legal.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    343
    Your range is also reduced by the fact that at the beginning you will be hauling an additional 1000lbs (fuel + barrels + transfer pump + hoses + barrel dolly?). That assumes the trailer is used for other gear already, if the trailer exist solely for hauling the barrels, then you are hauling that additional weight too. That extra weight reduces your fuel economy by a not insignificant amount.
    What he said. Sounds like a lot more effort than it is worth. It would seem to be much easier and better to just stop at a gas station and fuel up. Leave the trailer at home.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    16
    When I go out for more than a few days at a state park or lake that has RV hookups, I will be pulling the trailer anyway for gear, generator, food and supplies. With the camper tank and the trailer tanks I will be carrying about 85 gallons of water too. Yes that is a lot of water, more than 700lbs of water, good for two people and a dog for about a month. Just the water and fuel in the trailer will weigh around 875 lbs. Fully loaded I expect to pull around 1800 lbs in the trailer, plus my truck camper. The weight is really not a problem with my truck, I have pulled a lot more weight. I do really want a good in bed tank, but until I find one cheap, this will do the job. I will be putting E rated tires on the trailer and adding overload springs to deal with the weight. In the long run I want to swap the trailer axle for a 3/4 ton rear end and use matching wheels for my truck.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    DeKalb, Illinois
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    256
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellikastle View Post
    When I go out for more than a few days at a state park or lake that has RV hookups, I will be pulling the trailer anyway for gear, generator, food and supplies. With the camper tank and the trailer tanks I will be carrying about 85 gallons of water too. Yes that is a lot of water, more than 700lbs of water, good for two people and a dog for about a month. Just the water and fuel in the trailer will weigh around 875 lbs. Fully loaded I expect to pull around 1800 lbs in the trailer, plus my truck camper. The weight is really not a problem with my truck, I have pulled a lot more weight. I do really want a good in bed tank, but until I find one cheap, this will do the job. I will be putting E rated tires on the trailer and adding overload springs to deal with the weight. In the long run I want to swap the trailer axle for a 3/4 ton rear end and use matching wheels for my truck.
    Don't forget an appropriately sized spill kit....Tread Lightly

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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    319
    It would give awesome range, but unless I was in the outback I could not justify hauling that much fuel. The liability of it in the US, especially only in 55gal drums would be enough for me to not do it with the availability of diesel at almost every station. If it is for when SHTF, then I'd just keep it stored at home and rotate it out every so often. Liability and DOT won't matter in the zombie apocalypse or whatever happens.

    I would also start looking at the GCVWR of your setup with camper plus your loaded trailer. In an accident they are going to look at that, then look at the fact your hauling around 110 gal of diesel in unbaffled tanks etc... it just has bad news written all over it. Then you have to look at what that drums were used for, they could be labelled "do not reuse" just like herbicide containers, that could be more liability and fines there.

    I see a lot more cons than pro's with this.

    I'd also look more closely at the HAZMAT laws, as even for private use I would think you would still need to be placarded. Placards are for the safety of the first responders in the event of an accident, and skirting the laws there is kind of crappy IMO as that puts the people trying to save your butt, or the other persons butt in danger

    If placards are required that just screams "pull me over."
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  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Theresa, NY
    Posts
    1,032
    As soon as you hit 1001 lbs. of fuel, you are required to placard the trailer... On all four sides. You will therefore also be required to have a hazmat endorsement on your driver's license (average cost of $100-150 depending on your state, waiting for a background check, etc.). Even under 1001 lbs. weight, the drums will still require a hazmat label on them because they are not DOT approved containers or ORM-D quantities. While you're at it, if placarded, you may now be required to go through DOT inspection stations ("scale houses") which would once again lead you into a situation of law enforcement curiosity.

    Add to the above-stated DOT requirements, you're going to bring Law enforcement attention because it's just not a reasonable sounding need for normal situations.
    Last edited by matthewp; 03-30-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    255
    I'm a WMO guy, regularly haul extra tanks to increase my range, and have never heard a peep from a LEO. Instead of the drums, I would recommend you use a 270 gal plastic tote (if you have the space). It'll fit in your bed, it has a steel cage around it, is affordable (~$60), and people use them all the time to haul a variety of liquids. I personally have hauled 400+ gallons of WMO/Diesel in 2 separate totes and never had an issue. In addition to your camper shell, you could also throw a blanket over it to keep it stealthy and you'll be good to go.

    If a plastic tote is too large, a transfer tank is the way to go. Tractor Supply regularly has sales and you can pick up a 100 gal tank for ~$250. If that's out of your range, Craigslist is also a good hunting ground although occassionaly I see people listing the used tanks for more than the new ones.

    As for placarding, it's a state by state thing. I've seen the 1,001 lb number before but only recall it being cited in one state, and even then it was a loose interpretation. As food for thought, semi's don't run placards and they carry upwards of 300 gallons of diesel in their twin tanks. When I researched the laws prior to running my big tanks, I found that I was good even at 300 gallons because my tanks weren't permanently mounted...the law in almost every state makes a distinction between permanently vs temporary mounted tanks.

    As for the WVO/SVO legality argument, this has also come up before and the EPA has NEVER fined someone for running veggie oils. From their documentation, the issue is only with 100% veggie oil and not blends anyway. It's a small sampling point but I've run nearly 30,000 miles on WMO and have only received thumbs up and kudos from LEO's, not to mention that I've never seen a EPA Agent conducting road stops or sampling fuel.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    319
    Hate to tell you, but placarding is federal, it is NOT state by state. 49 CFR 172.504 (Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations section 172.504) If they have not bothered you it is because you have not been pulled over by a DOT trained officer yet. Diesel tanks are usually no more then 110 gallon. Most often people are not caught until something happens. The fines get into 5 figures quickly, at my old job a competitor got a 10,000 fine for shipping 1 gallon of a flammable liquid as non-hazmat. The liquid got damaged and they got popped.

    NY had a good summary on their DOT website, but this part applies everywhere I believe.

    Cargo fuel tanks shall not exceed 150 gallon capacity per vehicle. Vehicle transporting fuel in cargo tanks of 115 gallons or more shall display either a hazardous materials placard indicating identification number NA 1993 for diesel fuel or a placard indicating 'Fuel Oil'. When empty, the placard shall not be displayed. Employees operating a placarded vehicle shall have a CDL License with a Hazardous Materials Endorsement.

    Placarded vehicles transporting hazardous materials shall carry appropriate shipping papers. Shipping papers shall be within the driver's immediate reach or in a holder mounted on the driver's door. When the vehicle is unoccupied, shipping papers shall be on the driver's seat or in the holder mounted on the driver's door.

    Sample shipping papers shall read:

    (Specify #) CARGO TANK(S) DIESEL FUEL 3 NA 1993 PGIII

    In Case of Emergency Call (work location phone #)

    Cargo tanks shall be constructed of a minimum of 14 gauge steel or 16 gauge aluminum. New tanks purchased shall not exceed 110 gallon capacity, and as such will not require placarding.

    'No Smoking' shall be prominently displayed on the vehicle, and smoking prohibited within 50 feet during fueling.

    Pick up trucks shall be used to transport fuel whenever possible. Tanks shall be mounted directly against the front of the truck body box and fastened to the frame whenever possible with anchor bolts. If fastening to the frame is not possible, and it is necessary to mount the tanks solely to the box, a 6 inch x 6 inch x 3/16 inch steel backing plate shall be used for each tank.

    Any void between tanks shall vent to the atmosphere by a minimum of a 1 inch inside diameter drain. Any connecting structure shall have inspection openings of sufficient size and number to permit proper visual inspection. All joints shall be welded in conformance with ASME Code of Welding Procedures, and where possible accessible for inspection.

    A 10 gauge steel bulkhead shall be mounted directly behind the fuel tank, securely fastened to the body of the truck on the floor and both sides. There shall be at least 1 inch space between the bulkhead and the fuel tank. The tank shall be equipped with a fill vent assembly with a flame arrester.

    Pumps shall be UL approved, with wire cored bonding hose and antisiphon valve. Any piping between the pump and the tank shall be Schedule 80.

    Vehicles transporting fuel shall be equipped with at least one 10 pound fire extinguisher, either BC or ABC dry chemical, and mounted to be easily accessible.

    The vehicle shall be equipped with a wire mesh cap protector screen. The exhaust system of the truck in the area below where the cab and body meet shall have a heat shield.
    My M416 Expo Trailer Build "The Tree House"
    2008 Hummer H3
    1946 Willys CJ2A (not close to stock)
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