limited slip verses locker

k9lestat

Expedition Leader
i know the diference between the two. i was wondering about with i should spring front lockers or not. i have a 85 g20 van with a pathfinder conversion. do youthink lockers would be worth it and if so what the best way to go for the money. not sure exactly what axles im running just to anwers that question befor im asked but i do know the pathfinder donar van that had the conversion was a one ton van not a 3/4 ton one. any suggestions or comments here would very appreciated.
 

tanglefoot

ExPoseur
I prefer a locker in the back. A locker in the front just makes driveline breakage much more likely and makes it hard to steer and turn in 4wd, unless it's a selectable locker. If you have manual front hubs, you can keep one unlocked 'till you get to the tough stuff to help a little with steering if the locker isn't selectable.

If you're thinking about a selectable locker, about the only downside is the expense. Just use extra caution using the front locker with the front wheels turned to the side--that's when U-joints/CVs are weakest.

I use a LockRight, which is one of the lowest-cost options and is easy to self-install. For such a heavy application, you may be better off with a full-case locker such as a Detroit/Eaton/ARB.
 

762X39

Explorer
I am a fan of selectable lockers. Lot's of my pickup trucks have had factory limited slips (or posi traction if you are old enough to remember that term). My advice (free so you know what it is worth) is to go with a selectable locker or leave it open (pay once, cry once).:coffee:
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Are you really driving a full sized van someplace that a front locker would be neccessary or even desirable? Most of the vehicles I see with front lockers are rock crawlers.
 

ZMagic97

Explorer
I agree with Martinjmpr. Likelihood of you needing a front locker isn't very high, so I would say just get a rear.
 

k9lestat

Expedition Leader
was thinking about just a rear locker but then i found a coupleof videos of the inter workings of the detroit true track and though it would do the job. it seem like limited slip but with more definative result for the vehicle. what do you think about that option verses a regular limited slip?
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
I think limited slip is a terrible idea if you are driving any place where it might be icy. I have had two unplanned spinouts on packed ice in two different vehicles and the only common denominator between the two vehicles is that both of them had LSDs. The problem with the LSD is that it can "kick in" when you don't expect it to and cause you to spin out if you are on a low traction surface like packed snow or ice.

I have heard that automatic lockers (sometimes called "lunchbox lockers") can do the same thing. I think the best arrangement for an expo-type vehicle would be a selectable locker on the rear and an open diff on the front. Or if you really think you'll need a front locker, make sure it, too, is selectable (like some of the FJ-80's, I think.)
 

Mobryan

Adventurer
Go with a selectable locker in front, if you really need one. I'd double check what axle you are running, and run the numbers to make sure you have either a power or traction limit to keep from blowing expensive parts. Jim Allans 4 Wheelers bible has a good section on this and makes the math easy to understand.

Any kind of traction adding dif. is going to have peccadilloes, it just a matter of figuring out what you are willing to deal with. The problem on ice/snow is once the tires start to spin, they are both spinning and your lateral traction has just gone out the window. Add that to the pronounced road crown generally found in snowy climates, and you end up with the automotive version of the Harlem Shake.

Personally, I've had so many outfits with rear lsd/locker/spool that an open dif causes me more problems then the locker ever does. In some ways a spool is the easiest of the three to drive on snow/ice, simply because you know exactly what it's going to do, torque is always going to both wheels. Once you figure out how much power you can apply without breaking the rear end loose, stay under that power level and things work pretty well. The problem with Automatic lockers and LDS's comes from power switching from one wheel to the other, depending on traction. Full lockers are a little easier to drive on the snow, because they recover faster from tires spinning. Once you lift from the throttle, and the carrier slows below road speed, one tire is free to spin faster then the carrier and the other tire, matching the roadspeed. Once one tire stops slipping, you have lateral traction again. With LSD's, you have to match both tires to roadspeed to regain traction, since it requires much more torque to slip an LSD clutch or gears than it does to activate the overrunning clutch on a full locker. This can require a delicate dance of adding and subtracting power until wheelspeed and roadspeed match again.

I know this flys in the face of common wisdom, but that's my experience.
Honestly, experience is the only way to make good decisions, and experience comes from bad decisions ;)


Matt
 

JIMBO

Expedition Leader
:sombrero: In the Jeep world, for a non-Rubi-

Over the last Decade, it seems that the most popular choice has been to install a front locker and rear limited slip (LS)-

This has been recommended, when regearing the diffs, because of savings in labor costs vs doing one--then the other

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO
 

k9lestat

Expedition Leader
Go with a selectable locker in front, if you really need one. I'd double check what axle you are running, and run the numbers to make sure you have either a power or traction limit to keep from blowing expensive parts. Jim Allans 4 Wheelers bible has a good section on this and makes the math easy to understand.

Any kind of traction adding dif. is going to have peccadilloes, it just a matter of figuring out what you are willing to deal with. The problem on ice/snow is once the tires start to spin, they are both spinning and your lateral traction has just gone out the window. Add that to the pronounced road crown generally found in snowy climates, and you end up with the automotive version of the Harlem Shake.

Personally, I've had so many outfits with rear lsd/locker/spool that an open dif causes me more problems then the locker ever does. In some ways a spool is the easiest of the three to drive on snow/ice, simply because you know exactly what it's going to do, torque is always going to both wheels. Once you figure out how much power you can apply without breaking the rear end loose, stay under that power level and things work pretty well. The problem with Automatic lockers and LDS's comes from power switching from one wheel to the other, depending on traction. Full lockers are a little easier to drive on the snow, because they recover faster from tires spinning. Once you lift from the throttle, and the carrier slows below road speed, one tire is free to spin faster then the carrier and the other tire, matching the roadspeed. Once one tire stops slipping, you have lateral traction again. With LSD's, you have to match both tires to roadspeed to regain traction, since it requires much more torque to slip an LSD clutch or gears than it does to activate the overrunning clutch on a full locker. This can require a delicate dance of adding and subtracting power until wheelspeed and roadspeed match again.

I know this flys in the face of common wisdom, but that's my experience.
Honestly, experience is the only way to make good decisions, and experience comes from bad decisions ;)


Matt

yeah i hear you. thats why i was looking for some type improve meant in the front. i wish a had thevan at my house so i could throw up some pictures, but i have it at friends who is kind of looking it over for me and making notes on any repairs that need to be made now before it costs me more money later. it is driving me crazy because i had an accident at work back later December and i cant drive anything right now. so i have been brain storming trying to improve the ride before i start trying to spend money enjoying it. my previous 4x4's have been a stock toyota taco with a manual, a dodge ram-charger and a long bed extended cab gmc. my favorite play vehicle was the taco.

if i come into some money while im still lais up im really thinking about a doubler. i am into just loping around verses hauling ***.

which explains why i want a improvement in the front. because i dont go fast doesnt mean i dont like a challenge of climbing this or that. im not the kind of person who worries about scratching the paint.



i appreciate all the replies here and will reed ever response and give it some thought.
 

86tuning

Adventurer
I prefer a locker in the back. A locker in the front just makes driveline breakage much more likely and makes it hard to steer and turn in 4wd, unless it's a selectable locker.

My experience is opposite of this.

I had a 1984 Toyota pickup and had ONLY a front lock rite locker. Steering was never an issue in 4wd when off pavement or on the rocks.

With an ifs front that may not be a great idea, but with my toy pickup with solid axle there were no issues at all.

On a full-time 4wd setup a front locker must be selectable for safety on pavement. My current 80 series has a lock rite in the back. Full time 4wd and the locker is almost transparent.

Agree that a selectable locker is nice, but depending on your axle layout, a front auto locker is awesome!
 

SoCalMonty

Explorer
If the system is part-time 4WD, then a front lunchbox locker is a good cost-effective option.

Think of the wheeling you like to do, and think of the obstacles you run usually. If you lift a front tire more often than a rear (ie, you "tripod" and leave one of the fronts dangling, no longer in contact with the ground), get a front locker. If you find you lift a rear tire more often, get a rear locker.

That would be my recommendation.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,539
Messages
2,875,662
Members
224,922
Latest member
Randy Towles
Top