Short Bed vs. Long Bed

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
I hope you ran over the curb and not the car that parked behind you. Though the mental picture of the latter is great and something we have all thought about.
Mikey

I had to give someones car a Detroit parking push once. Hippie sticker car blocked me in on purpose. Momo's walked right past me, in the store, bragging about it. But after I nudged myself free, I didn't just want to leave their car blocking the road. So I reparked them with my 3/8" chain.

They must have felt really smart sticking it to the mean gas guzzler truck guy.......at least until they found thier car three blocks away.
 

cnynrat

Expedition Leader
Given your situation where you are going to buy both a camper and a truck, I would choose the camper I wanted first, and then buy the appropriate truck to carry it.

I don't think I'd buy a full size truck that I couldn't use to carry 4' x 8' sheet goods with the tailgate up, but that's just me. ;)

We have a '99 F350 super cab/long bed, and yes it can be a handful to park in tight parking lots around SoCal, but it's not a show stopper for us. I realize a crew cab/long bed would be that much longer, but then you also get the improved turning radius of current trucks. Our truck is no longer a daily driver for us (it was for the first 7-8 years), and I've found that I was much better parking the beast when I drove it every day compared to now when I only drive it when I need to.

And it's unfortunate you can no longer get the 7.3L Powerstroke.
 

Flys Lo

Adventurer
And it's unfortunate you can no longer get the 7.3L Powerstroke.
I like the new 6.7l Powerstroke, a lot. Time will tell whether it ends up being as reliable over the long distance as the 7.3, but from all reports it appears to have few problems. Nothing like the 6.0/6.4 engines at least.

I am much more disappointed, I can't get a stick-shift that goes behind it. That (and the cheaper cost) is the only thing that is making me consider the Ram.
The Ram doesn't have some options that I do like however (optional e-locker, 3.55 gears, wider aftermarket support etc.)
 

bfdiesel

Explorer
I like the new 6.7l Powerstroke, a lot. Time will tell whether it ends up being as reliable over the long distance as the 7.3, but from all reports it appears to have few problems. Nothing like the 6.0/6.4 engines at least.

I am much more disappointed, I can't get a stick-shift that goes behind it. That (and the cheaper cost) is the only thing that is making me consider the Ram.
The Ram doesn't have some options that I do like however (optional e-locker, 3.55 gears, wider aftermarket support etc.)

What are you talking about wider after market support for, it is probably better for the Ram, especially with the cummins motor. It is disappointing that manual transmissions are dieing away in the full size diesels, and it is all because of emissions. The Ram also has a 3.42 gear ratio and a no clutch limited slip. Ram also has a mega cab, who needs a camper with one of those just fold down the rear seat. :)
 

my1stcummins

Adventurer
I wouldn't let gear ratios or locking diff options sway you. Those are easy mods.

I drive a very tired 09 f250 5.4l SCSB at work in the oil sands and I must say that it's a very very very tough truck but the new 6.7 ford is a complex looking motor. A subcontractor had one and I asked to see under the hood. That engine compartment was PACKED full of hoses and wires. The beauty of a cummins is that it's a little more simple to work on if that matters. I know this isn't a brand vs brand discussion but longevity also goes hand in hand with simplicity.

I don't know if it was the DEF fluid being urea, but his truck made yellow snow out the tail pipe :D it was some nasty smelling exhaust too. Very acrid.
 

Jr_Explorer

Explorer
Club Cab, long bed hasn't been any issues for me and I love the larger camper.

Holy @&#! That is AWESOME! I think that video is as much a testament to your driving skills and your spotters help! That is one capable truck. Did you scrape your right rear wheel at that tight spot near the end?
 

Flys Lo

Adventurer
What are you talking about wider after market support for, it is probably better for the Ram, especially with the cummins motor. It is disappointing that manual transmissions are dieing away in the full size diesels, and it is all because of emissions. The Ram also has a 3.42 gear ratio and a no clutch limited slip. Ram also has a mega cab, who needs a camper with one of those just fold down the rear seat. :)
For aftermarket support, it might be better for the engine, but not the rest of the truck - I couldn't find an aftermarket front locker for the Ram for example (they might exist, I just couldn't find it).

As for the manual transmissions - its take rate. Less than 1% of owners opted for them for Fords in 2010, that and GM doing away with a manual trans was why Ford dropped it.
The 3.42 rear end in the Ram is for Auto trans only (if I get a Ram, the only reason will be manual trans), and I would much prefer a selectable locker over their detroit style limited slip.
I wouldn't let gear ratios or locking diff options sway you. Those are easy mods.
But they are expensive too...
For the Ram, other considerations I have thought about is that it would need a tuner/dpf/egr delete to get decent milage/range, and that would require replacing the OEM clutch/head studs. It makes the price difference less appealing.
For a similar cost, I could bolt a manual trans up to a Ford (although admittedly I won't if I get a Ford).
I drive a very tired 09 f250 5.4l SCSB at work in the oil sands and I must say that it's a very very very tough truck but the new 6.7 ford is a complex looking motor. A subcontractor had one and I asked to see under the hood. That engine compartment was PACKED full of hoses and wires. The beauty of a cummins is that it's a little more simple to work on if that matters. I know this isn't a brand vs brand discussion but longevity also goes hand in hand with simplicity.
It is a complex looking thing, no doubt. But neither of the engines you really want to work on (nor should you) beyond regular maintenance. I am a former Ford Truck engineer, so I come with a bit of bias, but also a bit of experience with them.
I don't know if it was the DEF fluid being urea, but his truck made yellow snow out the tail pipe :D it was some nasty smelling exhaust too. Very acrid.
My plan is to ship the truck back to Australia (convert it to RHD), and I would be ripping the emissions systems of both trucks.
 
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my1stcummins

Adventurer
Since you are an engineer this is like preaching to the choir, the simplicity factor with the Cummins is that its a legendary motor and has fewer moving parts not to mention a global support network.

Ok, so export truck. No emissions equipment, RHD conversion. Why not go to Mexico and get an emissions free dodge from the factory? Or go to Brazil and get a Super Duty with a cummins? You must have an affinity for US trucks, but if you are moving to Oz there are lots of awesome trucks there as well that many in the US lust after.
 

bfdiesel

Explorer
For aftermarket support, it might be better for the engine, but not the rest of the truck - I couldn't find an aftermarket front locker for the Ram for example (they might exist, I just couldn't find it).

- As for the manual transmissions - its take rate. Less than 1% of owners opted for them for Fords in 2010, that and GM doing away with a manual trans was why Ford dropped it.
The 3.42 rear end in the Ram is for Auto trans only

- Dodge still uses the AAM 9.25 in the front right? There are lockers for those, same carrier as the AAM 9.25 used in GMC's. As for the 3.42 it lists that it also comes with the manual trans. From the build your own ram site you can only get 3.42 with the 2500 diesel either transmission. Either 4.10's or 3.42's for a 3500.

- What aftermarket support for the rest of the truck are you talking about then?

- I think you are just trying to talk yourself into a Ford. Which if that is what you want then go with a Ford. I have heard good things about the scorpion powerstroke motor and not too much bad about the trans. The truth be told the 6.7 cummins has more aftermarket support than the ford 6.7, but becomes less so every year. As far as the rest of the truck it is about equal from what i can find for after market support.

- You will need a tuner to delete either ones DEF and EGR. Clutch and studs are only needed if you plan on turning the tune up.

- One thing Ford does that I still see no reason for and hate is they run a vacuum asist instead of a hyro asist brake booster. Both Ram and GM have done away with vacuum asist on diesels for almost two and three decades respectively now. My 1983 diesel came with hydro asist why ford keeps using vacuum is beyond me.

- I also completely disagree with this statemant and see it as what is wrong with modern vehicle design "But neither of the engines you really want to work on (nor should you) beyond regular maintenance."

- To close if you want a Ford get a Ford, just seems a lot of what you say is your opinion not facts.
 

bfdiesel

Explorer
Also no common rail diesel injection system will ever be as reliable over the long run as older simpler designs. Look at it this way even the HEUI (yes i know it technally qualifies as common rail) systems fired 2 times on the 7.3's so they fire once per RPM. Newer High Pressure Common Rails are firing 5-7 times a power stroke meaning 2-3 times per RPM, they will always wear out with less hours on the engine. If you go back to single pulse injection where the injector fires .5 per engine RPM, they would last a lot longer do to the better metallurgy it takes to make newer injectors and the filtering we do to the fuel.
 

Flys Lo

Adventurer
Since you are an engineer this is like preaching to the choir, the simplicity factor with the Cummins is that its a legendary motor and has fewer moving parts not to mention a global support network.
There is definitely benefits to the Cummins. The broader support network being one that is of most interest to me (and easy of getting parts). Reliability wise on the newer trucks, from what I have seen - the 6.7 Ford seems to be doing about as well as the Cummins.
Ok, so export truck. No emissions equipment, RHD conversion. Why not go to Mexico and get an emissions free dodge from the factory? Or go to Brazil and get a Super Duty with a cummins?
Taxation in those 2 countries and price of used vehicles makes it cost prohibitive. Not to mention one of the requirements for me to import the vehicle is to use it for 12months prior to importation.
You must have an affinity for US trucks, but if you are moving to Oz there are lots of awesome trucks there as well that many in the US lust after.
I do like US pickups. I have had a Nissan Patrol cab chassis and a Mitsubishi Fuso (non 4x4) in Aus previously. Like anything else, they are compromised.
The Patrol is great, exceptionally reliable... but you can only fit 2 people in it, its very slow (and thirsty), and to fix those last 2 things is expensive.
The Fuso isn't great on the highway (slow) and is quite uncomfortable, but very manoeuvrable, and reliable.

The grass is always greener I suppose :)
- Dodge still uses the AAM 9.25 in the front right? There are lockers for those, same carrier as the AAM 9.25 used in GMC's. As for the 3.42 it lists that it also comes with the manual trans. From the build your own ram site you can only get 3.42 with the 2500 diesel either transmission. Either 4.10's or 3.42's for a 3500.
You are right, I can get it with the 3.42 it looks like. Don't know about the front end - just when I was researching locker options, people on the forums seemed to think that a selectable locker wasn't available.
- What aftermarket support for the rest of the truck are you talking about then?
Everything from lift kits, bumpers, air suspension - most things are available for the Dodge, but the selection of products is much reduced in comparison to the Ford's.
- You will need a tuner to delete either ones DEF and EGR. Clutch and studs are only needed if you plan on turning the tune up.
From what I have seen, the standard clutch can slip pretty early, without being turned up.
I would want to turn it up, because from friends I have that own the 6.7 Cummins, they have told me that they need to get over 20mph (highway).
Having it turned up, and a wastegate would be fine - or just knowing to back out of the throttle, but if it only takes a bit over 30psi to blow a head gasket, I would rather fit head studs to start with.
- One thing Ford does that I still see no reason for and hate is they run a vacuum asist instead of a hyro asist brake booster. Both Ram and GM have done away with vacuum asist on diesels for almost two and three decades respectively now. My 1983 diesel came with hydro asist why ford keeps using vacuum is beyond me.
The F350 diesels have hydroboost had it up to 2011, although I think they dropped it for 2012 however.

To be honest, I like the positive pedal with hydro assist... but I do hate it that when when using the brakes while turning it takes away the power steering (not sure if thats just a Ford thing though)
- I also completely disagree with this statemant and see it as what is wrong with modern vehicle design "But neither of the engines you really want to work on (nor should you) beyond regular maintenance."
It's indicative of what consumers want these days. Drive vehicle for 300,000 miles (for a truck) minimal maintenance, then buy a new one.

On one side it means that everything is more difficult to work on, but often it needs to be worked on less frequently as well.
Also no common rail diesel injection system will ever be as reliable over the long run as older simpler designs. Look at it this way even the HEUI (yes i know it technally qualifies as common rail) systems fired 2 times on the 7.3's so they fire once per RPM. Newer High Pressure Common Rails are firing 5-7 times a power stroke meaning 2-3 times per RPM, they will always wear out with less hours on the engine. If you go back to single pulse injection where the injector fires .5 per engine RPM, they would last a lot longer do to the better metallurgy it takes to make newer injectors and the filtering we do to the fuel.
I profess to having a limited experience with common rail - outside of my girlfriends TDI VW.

Although in general I can't see an issue with it firing an additional # of cycles per rpm... OTR trucks have much longer target lifespans than pickups (even if they do turn lower rpm), and use the system.
 

bfdiesel

Explorer
Over 300,000,000 more cycles at 1800 rpm for a 1000 hours, 1 event per power stroke vs 6 events per power stroke. Quite amazing when you look at the numbers and also remember the HPCR injector is a valve with 20,000 to 30,000 psi going across its seat.
 

redthies

Renaissance Redneck
If I had all the money I could ever need, would I have a new Dodge dually to haul my camper? Probably. Would I ever give up my '98 12v dually 5spd? Not a chance. I love the long box (I use it everyday), and have become a convert to duallies very quickly after buying my first one about a month ago. It is slightly harder to park, but the much better turning radius (due to coils), makes up for it.

All the new trucks are a bit of a gamble to me. I don't think you would run short of mod options for either the Ford or Dodge, but I would value the relative simplicity of the Cummins over the yet unproven 6.7 Powerstroke. I also think the current Doodge body and interior is superior to the Ford in every way.

No matter which way you go, I still say get a long box. The extra 18" isn't going to be that big a difference, and your camper and cargo options are far better with an 8' box.
 

ExpoMike

Well-known member
Holy @&#! That is AWESOME! I think that video is as much a testament to your driving skills and your spotters help! That is one capable truck. Did you scrape your right rear wheel at that tight spot near the end?

Nope, no scrapes of anything. I am very experienced at driving and have 100% confidence in my spotter (TacoDoc).

I just love showing this video to people who don't think a big, fullsize truck with camper can wheel tough trails. :D
 

Flys Lo

Adventurer
If I had all the money I could ever need, would I have a new Dodge dually to haul my camper? Probably. Would I ever give up my '98 12v dually 5spd? Not a chance. I love the long box (I use it everyday), and have become a convert to duallies very quickly after buying my first one about a month ago. It is slightly harder to park, but the much better turning radius (due to coils), makes up for it.
I would like to have a 7.3/stick, like my current truck (just in Crew Cab form), but if I am to buy a truck, it will be to go back with me to Australia... Which means a RHD conversion ($$$). It doesn't make financial sense to do that to a truck which is probably (at best) worth 15k in the US/40k in Aus.

All the new trucks are a bit of a gamble to me. I don't think you would run short of mod options for either the Ford or Dodge, but I would value the relative simplicity of the Cummins over the yet unproven 6.7 Powerstroke. I also think the current Doodge body and interior is superior to the Ford in every way.

No matter which way you go, I still say get a long box. The extra 18" isn't going to be that big a difference, and your camper and cargo options are far better with an 8' box.
I have definitely been reassured in this thread about choosing a long box.

The next decision will be Ford/Ram... Which will probably be decided by what trucks come up for sale in the condition/spec I am after.
 

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