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Thread: Suspension Lift vs. SOA

  1. #21
    Wow. There are about three and a half opinions here for every post. Some are experience based, and some are borrowed.

    First, if someone offers to do a SOA modification for only $500 that person is either a very close friend who owes you big time, someone who hasn't a clue how to do it and is willing to give it a try, or someone who knows better and just wants to low-ball you into a deal you can't get out of once you start.

    SOA looks easy. It is not. It is a highly technical modification that requires a lot of shop time, likely in the neighborhood of $2,000 in cash to cover parts and labor, and is one of those things that can nearly always be made to work, but does not always work out the first time around.

    I didn't find a response to the questions regarding why the lift is wanted. Without that information, it is hard to recommend one approach over another. Otherwise, it is just an opinion fest. Here's mine.

    The simplest and most likely method to work the first time and at the same time require the least amount of automotive engineering background is spring under with lift springs. Nearly any amount of lift can be achieved this way, with higher or lower spring rates also possible (firmer or softer ride). You will still need a dropped pitman arm either way, but the steering geometry issues are generally fewer and easier to solve with suspension lift.

    On the other hand, for a given amount of lift, SOA provides more articulation because it is simpler to increase suspension travel with SOA. With lift springs, travel has to be limited to stock or near stock lengths to prevent over-travel and binding on lift springs, lift being achieved through greater arch and necessarily longer leaves. Since the pivot points of the leaf springs won't change, longer travel can't be accommodated. So, if you are just looking for a bit of lift to clear tires and don't mind limited articulation use lift springs. If you are building toward greater travel and articulation, SOA is the easier way to get it.

    Both methods have their own good and bad points, and both have issues. Spring wrap is probably the most difficult SOA issue to control, but depending on how and where you drive, and who you buy springs from, it may be a non-issue. My SOA CJ-7 has 300hp and 325 ft/lb torque, and while there is axle wrap (not avoidable without triangulated arms) it hurts nothing because the springs handle the job. Lots of trucks are SOA from the factory and don't have traction bars, yet work just fine. Traction bars are a drag race item not strictly compatible with off-road driving unless you have very limited articulation. NONE of the bar systems out there actually work with a vehicle that ramps over 1,000 RTI. They will bind, and the brackets will break or the bars will bend. An anti-wrap or overload leaf on the bottom of the pack does a better job than a bar. Take a look at most factory systems on SOA leaf packs (such as Toyota or Nissan).

    Assuming that you just want to clear larger tires and are not looking to build the next US champion rock machine, use lift springs and good shocks. Anything 4" and up will require a dropped pitman to negate increased steering arm angles associated with lift. I use one with a 2 inch spring lift even though it is not strictly needed because in my case, it brought the arms back to parallel. You can buy complete, engineered spring kits for your YJ. You can't find a complete, SOA kit as far as I know because there are too many variables involved, and all SOA modifications require cutting and rewelding on the axles, which is something that a kit manufacturer could not control and would not want to be responsible for. As a rule, SOA costs more than spring lift, requires more technical knowhow, and won't last as long once completed.

    And, to re-emphasize a point made by Scott earlier, SOA will net you a minimum of around 4 and a half to 5 inches of lift, all other things being equal, if all you do is relocate the perches to the top of the axle. That is a lot of lift which can just as easily be achieved with springs. What would be the point of that? My CJ has 8 inches of aggregate suspension lift and one inch of body lift. The spring maker offered to build me a set of 8 inch springs, but I would have been limited to stock or near stock travel because I would have had to drop the bump stops in an amount equal to the increase in lift. I wanted more. I now have a conservative 12 inches of travel front and 10 rear which I could not have had with 8 inch lift springs because the packs would bind first, which could be really bad for the springs. But most folks aren't trying to build what I was looking for. If you are, springs along won't do it. If you are not, stay with lift springs.
    Last edited by madizell; 01-07-2008 at 04:37 AM.

  2. #22
    Ok. Great info but let's boil it down.

    If you're planning on much road time, stay SUA with Rubicon Express's Extreme 4.5" kit. It will flex much more than the average SU set up and still ride pretty well. It bucks the SUA's normal trend of rough ride and gives you the choice of 33's or 35's.

    If you're looking for a rock crawler that isn't a daily driver, SOA will flex much more. But, don't reuse you're old springs, and don't count on $500.00.
    Go with Rubicon Express's 1.5" YJ reverse eye springs. They were designed specifically to limit axle wrap in a SOA use. Also, get new spring perches that are longer (helps more with axle wrap).

    My CJ-7, and my buddy's YJ use these springs in a SOA set up. Mine gets 1500 on a 20* ramp! It doesn't have axle wrap (thanks RE). But, it's not a road king. It's actually quite scary in corners and going down dirt roads. I can't comfortably keep up with YJs and TJs on dirt roads without floating all around. I don't have any sway bars (just one more of those hidden details everyone mentioned when doing a SOA). But, my Jeep flexes REALLY well in the rocks.



    You simply need to consider where you really are and want to go. If you expect to go 75 mph down the highway, you're probably going to have white knuckles (I do). Also, don't get Detroit lockers if you go SOA and expect to hit the highway. Get ARBs or Oxes. My flexy Jeep actually changes lanes on me because of the lockers.

    If I were to do my CJ all over again, I would go with the RE 4.5 SUA kit. It's complete and will cruise down the road and tackle just about any sane obstacle you want.

    P.S.: It is nice to see people amazed at how easily the old junk pile cruises over crossed up sections.

    Oh. I just got a JK cause I want to hit the highway with the kids inside instead of flat towing my old CJ.
    Last edited by mizedog; 01-12-2008 at 07:07 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by OS-Aussie
    The real question is how much do you want to spend.

    I am running coilovers all round and love the ride, way more than stock, or a couple of other after market kits I have used.

    Do you have a build-up thread somewhere? Looks like an amazing vehicle.

  4. #24
    For an mild expedition type vehicle - I'd probably go with a 3" lift and some Bushwacker cut-out fender flares and tuck some 33" tires in there.

    For a more extreme rock crawler - then SOA starts to make sense. the ~5" of lift you get allows for some pretty big tires.

    Also keep in mind you most likely have the Dana 35 rear axle - so unless you plan on swapping that out - you really should consider 33" your upper limit.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tracy CA
    Posts
    403
    Quote Originally Posted by Oman4x4
    Do you have a build-up thread somewhere? Looks like an amazing vehicle.

    You know you are not the first person to ask, even my Jeep club hits me with that one.

    I will have to stop being so slack and do one for both my Rubicon and Cherokee.

    Quick 5 on the Rubicon

    I moved to Texas from California with my Job and looked at a lot of the wheeling in Arkansas and Oklahoma and thought that we would need to go to bigger tires. This then had a cascade effect on the rest of the Jeep. 39.5’s, 35 spline dana 60’s front drive flanges rather than hubs, 4 speed Atlas, 14 coilovers with front air bump stops, hydro assist steering, 5.7 Hemi from a 2006 Grand Cherokee including the 5 speed auto. Front and rear 6” tube fenders, PS rockers, trans and motor oil coolers, GenRight gas tank, airraid cold air intake etc etc etc………

    Full doors, half doors, hard top, soft top, 5 x 15 wheels with 39.5 x 16.5 pit bulls, 5 x 17 wheels with 39.5 x 13.5 iRoks, XTC light bar, rock lights, PS trail stinger, PS full cage, Corbeau seats with 4 point harness, Nth Degree Tummy tucker, Nth Degree long arm kit, Replaced Nth rear LA with GenRight 4 link kit to address mis-alignment.

    5.13 Gears with ARB air lockers front and rear, Atlas with 5:1 and 10:1 low range. All LED park lights and rear, Warn 9000 XD winch.


    (Green Mamba, Clayton OK)

    Curently I have a set of 37x17 MTR's on the Jeep testing the difference in handling. However it does not feel much different from the 39.5 iRok's to be honest.

    Yes this Jeep does tow my early model Adventure Trailer.


    (North Padre Is, TX)
    Bay Area
    ------------
    2011 5.7 Grand Cherokee Overland (Love it)
    47 CJ3A
    TDI Jetta
    Kimberly Kamper Explorer (King Kamper)


  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mizedog
    If you expect to go 75 mph down the highway, you're probably going to have white knuckles (I do).
    I would attribute this to your lack of anti-sway equipment. Mine reacted similarly until I installed Currie Anti-Rock's both front and rear. They do tend to limit ultimate articulation, but I was not building to ramp or crawl rocks. I wanted high speed stability off road.

    Not unstable on dirt roads now. We did a stretch of dirt road in Australia at 85 mph, and it was a one-handed affair (I still used both hands, and we would have been going much faster, but I didn't have time to raise tire pressures from the 13 pounds they had coming off the prior event). Routinely did 65 off road where there were no roads or trails, day and night. Still does 75 or more on the highway and drives just about like any short wheelbase truck with 37 inch tires.

    So, SOA does not need to be unstable, but you do need to build for stability.

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