Suspension Lift vs. SOA

[dennisuello]

If you haven't done it, it sounds hard to believe. 2 problems that everyone has are axle wrap, commonly fixed with a $250 traction bar, and high steer which can be $300-1000 fix. I don't want to get into a soa/sua pissing match but I would highly recommend doing a ton of research before going SOA. It is not as simple as moving the perches

A beefed up stock steering set up will still work with SOA. Axle wrap can be minimized if you used stiffer springs, like SOA specific 1.5" springs from RE.

The real question is what's the intended purpose of a rig and desired tire size. Since this is posted on a expedition site, I would assume no larger than 33s and main focus is on the ride quality.

SOA would actually offer better ride quality, due to a flatter spring, but over 5" of lift is too much for 33s and will make a rig too top heavy.

I would recommend Old Man Emu kit and don't skimp on the shocks.

[OS-Aussie]

mmm, I think many people run bigger than 33 on this site maybe 35 is more common than some people think, but for a mild YJ I agree 33 is enough or there will be axles and such to follow. Put some new springs with a couple of inches of lift and a good pair of shocks in spring under. It does not sound like you are looking for the clearance or RTI.

[BigAl]

Looks like I really opened a can of worms

I was leaning towards a SOA before my post mainly because I found someone locally would do it for me for around $500. How much abuse are we talking concerning axle wrap with the SOA? I'm not a hardcore 4 wheeler (rockcrawler), so I won't be testing the limits of my jeep. Mine will we used mainly for weekend expeditions (camping)

From what I've read SOA sounds like you can run bigger tires, but lacks the flexibility of a suspension lift.

Where does the shackle reverse kit come into play?

Forgive my ignorance on suspension. I've always been more into performance before becoming a jeeper.

Axle wrap occurs primarily in the rear in higher torque situations, like pulling out from a stop. The spring actually twists in to an "s" shape and tilts the pinion angle way up. This causes the drivesshaft to bind or break and the wheels to kind of hop. It is especially noticable on hill climbs.

I've done 2 shackle reversal jeeps with mixed results. The shacke reveral is done on the front. The theory is that moving the shackles to the rear spring hanger gives better response to bumps. One jeep really handled nice for me, the other somehow messed up the caster and the return to center feel was screwed. Another issue with shackle reversal is that the front driveshaft can bottom under full flex, so you may need a long travel slip yoke shaft.

I wasn't trying to talk you out of an SOA, I just wanted to stress that it takes more work. Most agree that the stock springs are too soft for SOA. Good RE springs like Dennis suggested add another $600 to the price tag.

[OS-Aussie]

You may see those rock crawler rigs sidehill just fine with full-width D60 axles and 14.5" wide tires ... BUT ... you don't want to drive that rig on the highway, nor do you want it's gas mileage or noise level at highway speeds.

.

Maybe not full width Dana 60's but 39.5x15x16.5 tires and sits on the road just fine at more than legal speed. Ok, tire noise is an issue with the big rubber, worse than the Hemi - 15mpg. Those little 37 MTR's are almost silent when they are on.

If the geometry is right, things work just fine. But if it's not dialed in it sucks BIG TIME. I have had other Jeep club guys ride in mine, who own Jeeps with 33's and 35's comment how much better mine handles than their Jeep. So if you are prepared to spend time sorting the issues most things can be solved.

Not sure about 1/4, 1/2 Full - elliptical suspension however as that is just crazy stuff . I have seen a YJ near on it's side with the wheels still in contact (just not right)

[4Rescue]

From what I've read SOA sounds like you can run bigger tires, but lacks the flexibility of a suspension lift.

Where does the shackle reverse kit come into play?

Forgive my ignorance on suspension. I've always been more into performance before becoming a jeeper.

Nah, SOA's flex better usualy because you would tend to use a flater spring/stock soft spring rather that the highly arched and stiffer aftermarket lift springs. However, high quality leaf packs will go a long way towards leveling the playing field. Just don't expect to get a 5in spring from some of the low budget lift companies. A big concern with a SOA set-up is axle wrap because of the leverage the axle tube has over the spring when the spring is sitting on top of it.

Shackle reversals are for the front of the rig. In leaf sprung jeeps, the shackles are at the front. Consequently when you hit a bump and the spring tries to flex it's actualy pushing INTO the object it's trying to flex over. Alot of people run standard shackles (at the front) on crawlers for this exact reason. say you're coming up to an abrupt ledge you want to climb: The compression of the spring will actualy push the tire into the obstacle adding traction.

Cheers

Dave

[SeaRubi]

Maybe not full width Dana 60's but 39.5x15x16.5 tires and sits on the road just fine at more than legal speed. Ok, tire noise is an issue with the big rubber, worse than the Hemi - 15mpg. Those little 37 MTR's are almost silent when they are on.

If the geometry is right, things work just fine. But if it's not dialed in it sucks BIG TIME. I have had other Jeep club guys ride in mine, who own Jeeps with 33's and 35's comment how much better mine handles than their Jeep. So if you are prepared to spend time sorting the issues most things can be solved.

Not sure about 1/4, 1/2 Full - elliptical suspension however as that is just crazy stuff . I have seen a YJ near on it's side with the wheels still in contact (just not right)

I don't refute that it can't be built, I just think it's a much more expensive and time consuming route for the average joe looking to do some back country exploration, tackle the occasional obstacle on remote roads, and drive the vehicle to and from those roads over the highway. I think it's much wiser to save all that money for fuel and travel expenses than to put so much effort into the rig.

fwiw.

[OS-Aussie]

Many people are more than happy with stock and that is fine. However over time the locations that are targeted can become more demanding and your build and mods change to match these locations, otherwise everyone on this portal would have stock vehicles.

My Jeep is the result of 5 years of work, and built for more demanding locations where it tows an AT trailer or bob tails. But alas it is not the only vehicle we own and we do mix and match for locations.

Just like a Jeep club every Jeep and every owner is different. They all need to pilot their own directions within their limitations (skill and $). I have driven 6x6 rig trucks on super singles that handle better than some peoples Jeeps. But then again I drove Toyota diesels for years and think you can't kill then with a stick.

But enough of this rubbish.......

I still think the Jeep in question is after something simple as I posted earlier.

[AZCPP]

OK, You obviously are relatively new to offroading. With that in mind, Scott Brady's suggestion would be your best option. Or a Rubicon Express YJ system would be a good choice also. You would be a lot happier with the setup Scott suggested as it will give you a more reliable and drivable Jeep to get started in this recreation. Scott knows what he is talking about and I have owned and offroaded 12 Jeeps plus my grandfathers CJ over the past 28 years. I have made good choices and some bad ones. One thing about doing a SOA with the stock spring's is that those stock spring's are already quite worn (over ten years), and they are designed to be used in a spring under application not spring over. There is a difference!! You can call OME or Rubicon Express to confirm. Spring wrap in the rear is bad, spring wrap in the front is not safe! A Jeep that is safe and a good driver is a lot more fun than a Jeep that is road wild and unsafe! Trust me I've been there! You will also enjoy the sport a lot more if you build it mild and improve you driving skills verses overbuild it and just point and shoot. My last TJ, I wheeled it for four years with a Rubicon Express 4.5" short arm system. Then I went way Over the top with D60's, full custom suspension with Fox AirShox, and 37" BFG's. It was fun....for a while then, I sold it a year later.

Hopefully this helps.

[86cj]

If you are after an improvement in ride quality a SOA with it's flater spring will provide that, even more can be had with a shackle reversal. You just have to be commited to sorting all the bugs out of a complete suspension,and the fact that parts aren't readily available. At this point you have Jeep that is lifted alot and has soft springs, (great offroad but not on the freeway). Stiffer springs help some SOA issues but isn't that what is wrong with a SUA......

I have a SUA CJ with 3" BDS YJ springs, with a 1" BL and some trimming 35"s fit. I think your reliability for camping points to a SUA.You have been driving a leaf sprung SWB Jeep, so if the ride does not bother you now, a high quality (EMU 2.5", 3" BDS or even a 4.5" RE) lift can ride good for SUA leaf springs...

During my research I found the shackle reverse on a Jeep that sees a lot of road miles puts a lot of wear on the front of the transfer case with the front shaft pushing on it every bump in the road. So not only do you need a long travel shaft of critical dimensions it has to stay in perfect working order (clean and greased) all the time to minimize the stress. You also have issues with the tire pushing back into the bottom of the front fender/tub giving less clearance for bigger tires, unless you move front axle forward which can effect steering geometry. I have a V-8 and did not want the hassle of the spring wrap issues front and rear. While the traction bars work they have a rough life and tend to break when when you really need them, allowing more $$ breakage..

[AndrewP]

I ran SUA with lift springs for years in my FJ40 (not really a Jeep, I know). It worked well and had few issues. Last winter I did a spring over, and overall, it's a better rig set up like this, but the $500 mentioned is just the start.

You may physically get the springs over the axles for $500, but you won't get a truck that works well, or performs offroad for that. For instance, I have $500 in the anti-wrap bar alone. You will need to figure in new shocks($350-500), longer drive shaft slip joints($500 minimum), new high steer($500+), and different steering links($300). On top of that, you need to figure the fabrication costs if you can't do it yourself. Done right, assuming you pay someone to do the work, I would estimate $3500 or so. The Jeep world seems to cost a bit less, but you get the idea.

If you are new at the offroad game, stay with the SUA leaf springs. Once you know what you like and where you want to go, then consider the spring over, but only with a thorough understanding of what's involved. If you really want to go 4 wheeling in the big rocks, the SOA is a great set up, but for anything else, I think you will be happier with just some lift springs.