First-Aid situations you've encountered in the backcountry

stioc

Expedition Leader
Thankfully for me I haven't really run into anything worth talking about other than a minor cut or a blister on the heel. Oh my kid was stung by a bee once but that's about it. My biggest fears are my kid getting bit by a snake, falling down and getting the wind knocked out or choking on the food. My FA kit is fairly basic: bandages, triple antibiotic cream, antihistamine (bites, allergy), ibuprofen (pain), Tylenol (fever), asprin (heart attack). Then I see people talking about the EMT type kits and I do wonder if I'm grossly under-estimating a typical camping/backcountry weekend trip.

Hopefully with some real life examples I can assess my kit/knowledge/training and be better prepared.
 
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762X39

Explorer
May I suggest training. The best kit in the world has no value without the knowledge to use it. Based on your location, I am sure someone will chime in on a good course that will meet your needs. Once you have taken a course as per your needs it will be easier for you to assemble a kit.:coffee:
 

summerprophet

Adventurer
Unless you are an EMT, first aid kits are little more than bruises/cuts and upset tummy supplies. Anything greater than this, and your only role is to mitigate shock, blood loss, or swelling while you hightail it for the nearest hospital.

Your kit, while basic sounds pretty good.

Additionally, I would add
1. stuff to make you poop
2. stuff to make you stop pooping
3. Steri-strips (for deep cuts)
4. Compression bandage and gauze(if not already included with your bandages)
5. Tweezers

Now, if you venture a good distance away from your vehicle, I would add
6. Sam splints

And, if you intend on treating anyone other than immediate family, I would add
7. mask and valve
 

stioc

Expedition Leader
May I suggest training. The best kit in the world has no value without the knowledge to use it. Based on your location, I am sure someone will chime in on a good course that will meet your needs. Once you have taken a course as per your needs it will be easier for you to assemble a kit.:coffee:

I agree to an extent and appreciate the suggestion but here's my problem- I think it's way too common and easy to suggest taking pro level training classes in every aspect of life for everything around here which is precisely why I asked the question. How many here have really had to call upon their level of training in real life? Let's hear some examples please.

I'm not against training but I feel there's too much emphasis on 'being prepared' and 'must haves' - it border-lines paranoia and phobia of the unknown. The reality is even as a trauma Dr. you can't cover every situation and if you tried you can't bring a hospital on wheels- or a mechanic shop or a dozen AK47s for every imaginable scenario you 'might' encounter. There has to be some balance and I feel that balance should be based on the common occurrences not the extreme worst case scenarios.

As I said I agree with being prepared and taking classes to an extent (basic FA and CPR) and that's why I have a FA kit, a tool kit for the truck, a basic recovery kit, extra fuel, extra water, a phone, a GPS and hopefully a PLB soon.
 

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
Oh boy, there have been so many. As a bicycle, kayak and mountain guide, I've seen my share of injuries. The most serious:

France '98. One of my cycling clients was sitting on a rock wall on the edge of a small village enjoying the view and eating a pastry. He got stung by a bee and I was sure he was going to die. Thank you EpiPen.

France '96. Again another cycling client. This time the client had a death wish. Despite me telling her countless times that country roads my LOOK like bike paths, they are open to traffic, she kept riding right down the center line. She got hit by a VW Polo at about 30mph. How she survived is amazing. Two fractures in her leg and one in her shoulder. Took 20 minutes for the ambulance to arrive.

Alaska '99. One of my mountain bike clients woke up with a fever. We were miles from pavement. Day two the fever reached 104 and became everyone's full priority. After the heli came to get her we found out she had a serious infection from NOT CHANGING HER CYCLING SHORTS for three days. Amazing what will get you.

Alaska '02. Despite countless pleas to stop, a Japanese client felt it was appropriate to descend a paved highway with a camera in one hand. When her face hit the guardrail, it crushed her cheek bones, nose and dislodged her eyeball. That....was a tough day for everyone.

Alaska '01. Despite warning my climbing clients that cooking in a tent was a SERIOUSLY bad idea, I was awaken from a late PM nap by a very loud "POP." That was the sound of a two-person Bibler tent being exploded from the inside out. My two hapless clients crawled out of the remains of the tent, which wasn't burned, but shredded, with missing eyebrows, nose hairs, singed lips and ears. Aye. We called that "near death by mac'n'cheese."

Alaska '01. A client I will not name (John Baxter) simply would not listen to my advice that he NOT ride his mountain bike as aggresively as he had done for the previous day. I reminded him that an accident would mean a helicopter, and many thousands of dollars. He continued to ride like an ************ taking insane risks. When he crashed for the fifth time and a portion of his tibia poked through his skin to say hello, the next issue became his wife, who went into shock and required her own medical attention. Guiding. Aye.

There are more. As a guide for over a decade, I saw it all. I watched a lady literally stick her hand in a pot of boiling water when she tripped over her own feet. Saw another client simply step out of a 15 passenger Ford van and spiral fracture her femur like she was made of spun sugar. One sea kayak client started puking blood the first day. The wife said, "This has been going on for days before we left, but we didn't want to miss this trip to Alaska." :eek:

One of my favorites: It gets pretty buggy in Alaska. I watched a guy so crazed by mosquitos, he cracked and sprayed DEET all over his face. Then rubbed it in his eyes. Before I could say, "dude...******..." He was screaming like a toddler.

It's amazing what happens to people on vacation.
 
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fowldarr

Explorer
Couple of weekends ago an eight year old lost hid footing while climbing some rocks, fell pretty straight down about 10 feet, rolled another 40 or so through trees and under brush (steep hillside ) one of the scariest things I have witnessed (not counting a canoeing incident when I was a teenager). The kid was fine.scraped knees monitored him for signs of a concussion. That's about it.
 

Fzzt

Observer
How many here have really had to call upon their level of training in real life?
...
I'm not against training but I feel there's too much emphasis on 'being prepared' and 'must haves' - it border-lines paranoia and phobia of the unknown.
...
There has to be some balance and I feel that balance should be based on the common occurrences not the extreme worst case scenarios.
...

I know what you are saying but it sounds like you know what you need to do but are hoping you can play the odds and save the time/money from doing more training.
Not everyone is cut out to be a first responder and that's fine so long as you prepare accordingly. I think everyone should have some first aid training, at least the basics as taught in the Red Cross courses, I mean the life you save may be the 'medical guy' in your group!
Rescue beacons are great and I think there should be at least 1 in every group that goes out however they aren't instantaneous. If someone is injured and you push the 'SOS' button, that person is still going to need some aid until the pro's show up.

Find where your comfort zone is for dealing with medical emergencies and then get that level of training. IMO it's more important to learn to save someone's life than how to be a better camp cook, repair broken vehicles on the trail or survive with a match & pocketknife.
FWIW, I'm not a first responder either. I have some military first aid training, bunch of Red Cross classes, life experience and some informal wilderness first aid training given by friends who are working first responders.
My first aid kit is mainly made up of OTC items with a few specialty blood stopping products (pressure bandages and a couple packs of newer quick clot), some various sam splints, large bottle of eye wash and some wound cleaning products.
Beyond that I'm pushing the SOS button on my beacon and treating for shock while waiting for the professionals.
 

stioc

Expedition Leader
Good stories so far guys. I used to mountain bike so I know how quickly things can get out of hands, thankfully I got away easy with just minor cuts and bruises in my years- which I simply cleaned with drinking water, put a few bandaids on and off we went.

I know what you are saying but it sounds like you know what you need to do but are hoping you can play the odds and save the time/money from doing more training.
Not everyone is cut out to be a first responder and that's fine so long as you prepare accordingly. I think everyone should have some first aid training, at least the basics as taught in the Red Cross courses, I mean the life you save may be the 'medical guy' in your group!
Rescue beacons are great and I think there should be at least 1 in every group that goes out however they aren't instantaneous. If someone is injured and you push the 'SOS' button, that person is still going to need some aid until the pro's show up.

Find where your comfort zone is for dealing with medical emergencies and then get that level of training. IMO it's more important to learn to save someone's life than how to be a better camp cook, repair broken vehicles on the trail or survive with a match & pocketknife.
FWIW, I'm not a first responder either. I have some military first aid training, bunch of Red Cross classes, life experience and some informal wilderness first aid training given by friends who are working first responders.
My first aid kit is mainly made up of OTC items with a few specialty blood stopping products (pressure bandages and a couple packs of newer quick clot), some various sam splints, large bottle of eye wash and some wound cleaning products.
Beyond that I'm pushing the SOS button on my beacon and treating for shock while waiting for the professionals.

As I said I agree with being prepared and taking classes to an extent (basic FA and CPR) and that's why I have a FA kit, a tool kit for the truck, a basic recovery kit, extra fuel, extra water, a phone, a GPS and hopefully a PLB soon.

I think we're saying the same thing here except the bolded part :) quite the contrary there actually I'm trying to see if there're valid reasons for me to get a pro level training just to go out camping? I too have done the $50 RedCross FA/CPR courses and I'll be doing a refresher again this summer. I've also read two Wilderness Medicine books and a few First Aid booklets. I also mentioned what I have in my First Aid kit (basically a modified Adventure Medical Weekend kit). It's based on what I feel are to be the most common issues when out camping or exploring (not rock crawling or rock climbing etc) and within my level of knowledge and abilities. The question is do I need to increase my knowledge and abilities to an EMT or first responder level to go into the backcountry 5 times a year because that's what I see people suggesting here very frequently and I'm genuinely interested in hearing their experiences. Personally my biggest fear medical emergency wise is getting bit by a snake so I remind my family every time we're out there to keep a watchful eye as we walk and not to step into the bushes etc.

As for saving someone's life being the most important? I agree 100%. However saving a life could mean multiple things in addition to a medical emergency, such as reading a map to find your way- the German family that perished in Death Valley comes to mind? or fixing your broken truck to get you back to civilization or to pack extra water/food should you encounter a situation where it could become a life and death survival situation. So we all have to be somewhat a jack of all trades. BTW, when stuff really hits the fan I also don't want to play a medical Dr. losing while precious time. For e.g. even with the 4 week long expert level Wilderness First Aid training but without the right antivenin there's not much you can do if you get bit by a Coral snake. In which case every second counts and your best chance of survival is hitting that SOS button or any other means of immediate evacuation.

I guess when I see that the first thing someone suggests to the avg person looking for info is to 'get some training' it just rubs me the wrong way because it makes it sound like the min you step outside of your house the world will implode. I like to think most people are smart, can read, comprehend and learn a few basics to be somewhat self sufficient without taking a career based course for it and they understand their knowledge/resources will never match that of an ER doc - at least mine :D

BTW, anyone looking for the basics and interested in reading a decent book or two I suggest:

1. Basic illustrated wilderness first aid (I believe REI first aid kit includes this too)
2. Adventure Medical Kits first aid booklet, it was available for download at one point
3. Wilderness Medicine
 
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dorton

#rockcreekoverland
Note to self:

1. Add things that make your poop, and stop pooping
2. Listen to Flounder. Bad things happen to those that don't.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 

Fzzt

Observer
I think we're saying the same thing here except the bolded part :)

Yup. I agree now that I read your follow up. Before, to me, it sounded like some of my friends answers to me when asking them about taking a basic course, "Oh I don't need training, you always take care of us" and it's usually blank stares when I say, "Yeah but what if something happens to me?"

It'll be interesting to see how this thread fills out with everyone's experience.

My favorite first aid joke:
A couple of rednecks are out in the woods hunting when one of them suddenly grabs his chest and falls to the ground. He doesn’t seem to be breathing; his eyes are rolled back in his head.
The other guy whips out his cell phone and calls 911.
He gasps to the operator, “ I think Bubba is dead! What should I do?”

The operator, in a calm soothing voice says, “ Just take it easy and follow my instructions. First, make sure he’s dead.”

There is silence….and then a shot is heard. The guy’s voice comes back on the line, “Okay, now what?”

^my friends :D
 

verdesardog

Explorer
10 years in Search and Rescue in Sedona AZ. Basic first aid/CPR, wilderness first aid. Have never had to use any of the training yet...knock on wood. However I do carry basic first aid supplies including a sam splint, compression bandage etc.etc.
 

Ray Hyland

Expedition Leader
How far in the backcountry do you go and for how many days?

If your biggest fear is a snake bite, realistically you can treat for infection in the field, but if it is venomous you are looking at a medivac, regardless of your training.
 

Ramjet

Explorer
A lot of great responses. Remember to always expect the worse. Life, limb, or eye sight are always going to be Medivac situations. Everyone, and I mean everyone you know, should be CPR certified. There's just no excuse anymore. You also don't have to take expensive classes to learn about saving someone's life. Wilderness first aid and first responder are reasonably priced and in my opinion worth the cost if anything were to happen while away from immediate medical care.
 

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