Transformer seating solution

[mgmetalworks]

The company I work for sells supplies to diemakers, metal fabricators, metal stamping companies, etc., so I see a lot of different stuff that my customers are doing. When I saw the seat, mandrel bent tubing jumped out at me. But you're right, you would have to have the volume to make it worth it. What kind of fabricating equipment do you have? Do you have your own brake, shear, waterjet, etc.?

In my shop I have some welding equipment, some manual equipment and I'm working on getting my CNC plasma back up and running. I'd love to have a laser and CNC press brake (and lots more stuff) but I don't have the room (or electrical). Mostly what I do is design and detail out all of the parts in CAD, send them out to be machined, laser'd and/or formed and then do all of the integration (welding, assembly, etc...) in my shop. I started down the route of buying out an ol' timer with a 10,000 sqft shop and a couple $Mil in equipment but I realized that I could actually be more dynamic by maintaining a $1500/year Solidworks license and establishing relationships with multiple vendors. Yeah, it would be pretty awesome to have a huge shop full of tools and have the ability to prototype at lightning speed but that comes at quite a price.... like 4-5 figures/month kinda price not including the headache of employees.
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I like the low overhead of my home shop for now. I can sit at my big screen CAD station, design some stuff, email out the drawings and have parts ship right to my door without ever getting up....except to grab a beer

 

[warmblood58]

Nice work! I am in the process now of designing a bed but would prefer your setup as it is versatile!

 

[Dexternnk]

Well reduced supports, would need to be developed but that might be an choice to cut down on so much significant fab work. Only down part, would be that the chairs flip down only instead of back.

 

[mgmetalworks]

Well reduced supports, would need to be developed but that might be an choice to cut down on so much significant fab work. Only down part, would be that the chairs flip down only instead of back.

Having a purchase order for 1,000,000 of these is the best way to cut down on the fab work because it would then justify forming/stamping parts in fewer pieces and having dedicated tooling, robotic welding cells, minimal hand assembly....
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If you're only building one or two units, the way I have it designed is actually pretty easy to put together and far less "skilled" work required vs. other design approaches. Everything fits together like a puzzle and you weld it together. The problem is, the parts are expensive. Up the quantity and parts get cheaper. Up the quantity more and the parts are not only cheaper but the design can change to make use of more automated manufacturing techniques.
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There are a number of ways you could build seats that do what these do, I'm not going to argue that. I've even had several ideas for redesigns to make them even simpler. The biggest issue isn't the design though. The prototype, "proof of concept", whatever you want to call it is already done and it works well. It can be refined easily and the design can be adapted to cheaper/faster/better manufacturing methods IF.... and this is a HUGE IF... you could find the demand.
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No demand = Me not working on this project.
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If I had 100 people lining up to buy these, it would be worth it to adjust the design for more CNC operations and fewer manual operations. It might even be worth it to invest in some additional machinery for my shop or partner with a fabrication company to manufacture them for me. I don't see 100 people lining up though... I don't even see 50. Or 10. Or 5... One person stepped up and paid money for a set and 3 or 4 people have asked what a set would cost. That isn't a strong enough indicator of future demand to justify any redesigns or investments in tooling, etc...
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I appreciate everyone's willingness to share ideas about how to make these, I really do. I love collaborative design projects. But let's focus on the problem that really needs to be solved... Where are the 100+ buyers ready to lay down some Benjamins?
eepwall:
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(sounds of crickets chirping)

 

[Jasper Jones]

I would be very interested, but I am trying to find a solution that will provide me with a "nearly" queen sized platform (I'm 6'2" and like to stretch out) which can also be used as a normal seat, or quickly adapted for cargo space.

Right now, I have a bench with an "add-a-back" that folds completely flat, plus an additional cushion I lay on top of my cooler to make a full size platform. While this is nice for passengers and camping, that bench is a total bear to pull out when I need the cargo space. Your transformer system looks like a much better way to maintain that cargo space.

I've been thinking about doing the Sienna seats to replace my bench, and then just building a lightweight, removable sleeping platform that I can quickly remove when I need the cargo space.

Are your Sienna seat mounts set up to be removable, or are they more permanent mounting?

 

[mgmetalworks]

I would be very interested, but I am trying to find a solution that will provide me with a "nearly" queen sized platform (I'm 6'2" and like to stretch out) which can also be used as a normal seat, or quickly adapted for cargo space.

Right now, I have a bench with an "add-a-back" that folds completely flat, plus an additional cushion I lay on top of my cooler to make a full size platform. While this is nice for passengers and camping, that bench is a total bear to pull out when I need the cargo space. Your transformer system looks like a much better way to maintain that cargo space.

I've been thinking about doing the Sienna seats to replace my bench, and then just building a lightweight, removable sleeping platform that I can quickly remove when I need the cargo space.

Are your Sienna seat mounts set up to be removable, or are they more permanent mounting?

The Sienna mounts are what I'd call a generic solution. They are removable but (at least in my van) you have to crawl under the van to undo the bolts. You could however secure fasteners to the floor so you can get to everything from the top side.... I want to do this but I just haven't gotten around to it.
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You have a tall order with the queen size bed requirement (no pun intended). Even the way they're designed now, the transformer seats were hard to get that compact. I can visualize a couple different concepts for adding some length but it's just going to increase the complexity enough that you'd probably be starting from scratch with the design. Unless of course you incorporate some coolers or storage boxes into your interior to make more platform space.

 

[r_w]

Two sets of transformers set to make one BIG bed

 

[Jasper Jones]

The Sienna mounts are what I'd call a generic solution. They are removable but (at least in my van) you have to crawl under the van to undo the bolts. You could however secure fasteners to the floor so you can get to everything from the top side.... I want to do this but I just haven't gotten around to it.
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You have a tall order with the queen size bed requirement (no pun intended). Even the way they're designed now, the transformer seats were hard to get that compact. I can visualize a couple different concepts for adding some length but it's just going to increase the complexity enough that you'd probably be starting from scratch with the design. Unless of course you incorporate some coolers or storage boxes into your interior to make more platform space.

Oh, I understand it's asking a lot. That's why I think I am going to separate the seating and sleeping duties. If I can sell the convertible bench I have now, I'd like to go with the Sienna seats and a removable sleeping platform. I would either set up the recliners so they are easily removable, or mount them on the original tracks so I can slide them way forward. Any time I would need to use the bed for camping, there would only be 2 of us in the van anyways, and anytime I need to seat 4 people, I will not be needing the bed.

I need to take a serious look at my options. The bench is quite comfortable for long rides (but probably not as nice as the recliners) and it does offer ample sleeping space combined with the cooler-top cushion. It's just difficult to take in and out for added cargo space.

Anyways, I'm done dragging your thread off topic. I really like your transformer seating, and I love seeing anyone put effort into product development for vans, but I don't think they will fit my need well enough to make me lay out the cash.

Keep up the good work, though, I am definitely interested in a set of those Superduty mirrors!

 

[Riley]

MG, reading your various threads I have to say you are quite a talented designer and fabricator.

Personally, I'm not; much more of a bolt turner in practice. I do occasionally have a bright idea, or at least one I think is bright. In that light, I offer you my current bright idea....

Have you tried shopping these to the van conversion houses? Sports-mobile and any of the sprinter conversion guys? Heck, even the vehicle interior parts folks who produce the aftermarket seats, or the truck body manufacturers? Some of those guys have crew set ups with out the versatility of fold away seats.

It seems to me that the idea for the seats is somewhat revolutionary, certainly practical to a multitude of different layouts.

I'd sure consider using them along with the seat brackets when I get back to my roots in a van set-up.

Best of luck with your projects. I certainly enjoy seeing what you come up with and how well it's executed.

 

[mgmetalworks]

MG, reading your various threads I have to say you are quite a talented designer and fabricator.

Personally, I'm not; much more of a bolt turner in practice. I do occasionally have a bright idea, or at least one I think is bright. In that light, I offer you my current bright idea....

Have you tried shopping these to the van conversion houses? Sports-mobile and any of the sprinter conversion guys? Heck, even the vehicle interior parts folks who produce the aftermarket seats, or the truck body manufacturers? Some of those guys have crew set ups with out the versatility of fold away seats.

It seems to me that the idea for the seats is somewhat revolutionary, certainly practical to a multitude of different layouts.

I'd sure consider using them along with the seat brackets when I get back to my roots in a van set-up.

Best of luck with your projects. I certainly enjoy seeing what you come up with and how well
it's executed.

Thanks so much Riley! I appreciate the supportive words and thank you for following along with my builds! I enjoy working on this stuff and I'm glad to hear that others like to see how things turn out.
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I've kind of eluded to it before in previous posts but I'll just come out and say it here... I'm an engineer, not a sales guy. There, I said it. The cat is out of the bag. It's funny actually... I'm more likely to stand there and talk you out of one my products by showing you how and where components could fail than I would be trying to convince you that you can't live without it.
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That being said, I have shown photos of the finished product to several shop owners who should have had an interest in a design like this seat and the response was... "meh". Meaning an underwhelming response to say the least. That's not to say that someone somewhere wouldn't be all over it. It just means that the people I've had a chance to show it to so far haven't been interested.
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Aside from being non-salesy, I really don't have the time shop this design around right now. I've got a full-time job, a wife, two babies, my business and all its ongoing projects, my house/property and I'm in school again after 13 years to pursue a degree in Computer Science. These seats are low on the priority list to be honest. If I could make 50-60% margin on every unit I produced, maybe I'd bring them up the list a little. As it is though, I can barely get out of them what I have into them (in low quantities) so there isn't enough reward for the work that has to be done.
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I've offered to no less than a dozen people a higher-than-average commission on every product of mine they can sell. I have a couple things that might be a pretty good income for someone if they got them into the right stores too. I don't have a lot of time to sell and I don't have a lot of sales skills so I try to find people who can do what I have trouble getting done. I've had a lot of people say they're going to get right on it but I haven't had to pay any commissions if you know what I mean.
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Look, I've got the design and manufacturing covered. Any product, any volume...you name it, I can find a way to get it done. But no matter what the product is or how easy or how complicated it is to manufacture, without a sales channel, there is no point. I'd love to have the problem of trying to figure out how to make thousands of these...that's my bread and butter. I'm really good at making that stuff happen. I just don't have the time or the skill set to go out on the road (or get online), show these around and sell them in the quantities that are necessary to make it worth while.
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[mgmetalworks]

The second install of transformer seats is finished... I don't think these were any easier than the first set though. They really are simple in how they are fabricated but the install is very tedious and it is absolutely critical to get them aligned right. I built a better alignment jig this time and it helped a lot but it was still very time consuming. Anyways... on to the pictures...
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Bench seat
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Bed platform
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Storage mode
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I really like how little room they use up when stowed. The van is still very spacious and usable.

 

[bknudtsen]

Fantastic work, as usual!