Thoughts on The Right Vehicle, by a total noob

FeralK

New member
Hello there! I am a long term lurker of the classifieds here, and figured since soon I'll be taking the plunge into the expedition vehicle pool I should maybe introduce myself, and perhaps get some feedback about the choices I will be making.

Next year my husband and I are pitching it all (home, mortgage, jobs, life-as-it-is) and hitting the road here in the US, and almost certainly taking our show on the road internationally in the following years. We have looked all over for a vehicle that meets our needs (liveable, simple, roomy enough but still small, dependable, 4WD is a must, stealthy, solid) and have found NOTHING. The Begal and Malayan Tigers come close, but they're very expensive and a little too overly finished and kinda ticky tacky for our tastes (that's what I tell myself . . . really, just too expensive). A 170WB Sprinter van seems ideal in many ways (if a little small, but we can adapt) but ultimately the lack of a (factory) 4x4 has proven to be a deal killer. We've also considered the Four Wheel Camper-type route, but the pop-up is a big negative, plus they generally seem a little small, a little flimsy(?) and perhaps really not up for full-time living. Earthroamers, GlobalX, etc, holy smokes they're HUGE and EXPENSIVE and just too much. We have also considered just buying a cheap 15K whatever, 4WD or not, just to bang around in for a year to discover if we really DO want to do this thing and perhaps to refine what it is we TRULY need in a vehicle, as opposed to the theoretical tack we're taking right now. This last option is still very, very attractive.

We've got a year timetable, absolutely no more than, say, 70K to spend (and would like to do it for less than that), very flexible attitudes and lifestyles. We are in our mid-to-late 40s. My husband is VERY clever, I'm reasonably clever, and we have the ability to do ALOT of work on our own. Neither one of us requires a palace to live in, but at minimum we think we'd be OK with bedspace (cabover, preferably), galley w/ fridge-stove-sink, sette for two, bathroom (cassette toilet? outside running water?) w/ shower, storage for bikes, etc. Insulated and secure. 4WD is a necessity, as we spend lots of time in deserts and mountains, and NO time in KOAs/RV parks. Almost certainly diesel. Probably with heat/airconditioning too, but now I'm starting to get into things I'd LIKE to have, but really are not strictly necessary.

So, what are we thinking about? After months of discussion discussion discussion and reading and classifieds and freaking out in general, here's what we've come up with: ideas, mostly. We are seriously considering just buying a diesel 4WD box truck/stepvan/moving truck and going from there (I'm serious about we don't need a ton of luxuries). I know there's inherent problems with that choice . . . I've been told, No! You Can't Do THAT!! but . . . why not? We could get something like what we're looking for (an insulated, 10-13 foot bed with cabover space, curbside door, don't want that rollup back door though) on a used Ford F350 chassis, in pretty good shape, probably for 20-30K, and could just . . . heavily modify the thing, right? I'm trying to educate myself on the builds of these things (aluminum, FRP, etc), and of course would have to work out the logistics of placement of water tanks, plumbing, electrical . . . it would be nice to be able to leave this aspect to professionals, but again we DO have the capability to figure it out for ourselves, if we have to.

Another choice, which I am actively pursuing right now, is to have such a box (7x13, cabover, insulated, curbside door, perhaps barndoor style back doors) custom built for us, maybe even with the basic utilities roughed-in, ready to plop onto a chassis that we would provide (and would probably be a Ford F350, but who knows? Husband is NOT fond of the Fuso, FWIW), and which we would build out over the following months. As a side note, I've found it a little difficult to find (via google searches, anyway) nearby companies that even DO such things (I'm located in Northern California) but this may well be ignorance on my part. In any case, I've got 5 requests out for rough quotes, and am eagerly awaiting responses.

Anyhow, that's the short of it. I don't know exactly why I'm posting this, but thought I'd like to introduce myself to to forum at large, because whatEVER happens I know I'm going to end up with lots of questions and need for education, plus you all just seem like a nice, knowledgable group of folks. If any of you have any opinion about our current quandary/plans, I'd LOVE to hear them. I've started a blog here: http://theferalblog.wordpress.com/ and though it's in its very baby stages it may turn into a fun read.

Thanks for reading, and if this is in the wrong place please let me know!
 

Jaxie

New member
If you want a Bengal I know there's a few for sale in your price range. Google tigerowners forum and take a look. I can think of at least two that would fit your needs just fine.
 

FeralK

New member
OK you've both caused quite a bit of lost time following these links! The Bimobil, especially, is exactly EXACTLY what we are looking for! Those lucky Euros! My husband and I are headed to Germany at the end of August for business, and we're already planning a trip to their factory. I wonder if you could just get the box (minus the truck) shipped to the states? I'm also presently digging through the Tiger site -- another great link that I somehow missed. We've got a Toyota Tacoma (extended cab) that we use as our daily driver; if we could repurpose that as our camper, even just for a year or so . . . that would be very cool. Ran across this this morning http://www.thesupercamper.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html which reignited all kinds of ideas.

It's interesting being in our present position: we have SO MANY options that every lead is exciting and possible, but that in turn is super frustrating because each one is possible and which lead should I concentrate on? I just wish I could see maybe 9 months into the future and get a tiny little peek . . .
 

haven

Expedition Leader
Welcome to ExPo, FeralK.

It's highly unlikely you can identify your perfect setup without some experience using the vehicle in the ways you want to. Reading these pages is helpful, but no one has the same requirements that you do.

You wrote
"We have also considered just buying a cheap 15K whatever, 4WD or not, just to bang around in for a year to discover if we really DO want..."

This makes the most sense to me. Spending just a week in a camper will tell you lots about what you want in a vehicle. There are a few places that rent truck campers (pickup truck with slide-in camper). Here's on in southern California
http://www.camping-trailers.com/truckcamperrentals.htm

Even renting an small RV for a weekend and living in your driveway will give you lots of information about what's important to you in a camper.
 

FeralK

New member
That's excellent advice, and thanks for yet another cool link. We've definitely talked about renting things; last weekend we were looking at the "compact" RV rental available from CruiseAmerica. We've spent a lot of time living out of the back of our Toyota (with a simple cap over the bed) but I realize that's not the same. The larger part of me thinks the 15K bang-around vehicle is the way to go; the smaller yet way more insistent part is Buy Big! Buy Now! Do It DOIT DO IT!!!! I spend a good portion of my life trying to ignore that instant-gratification 6 year old voice within. I'm only mildly successful ;/

If we end up going the big route of a custom build, I think a week in an RV is a must.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
You wrote "...a box (7x13, cabover, insulated, curbside door, perhaps barndoor style back doors) custom built for us, maybe even with the basic utilities roughed-in, ready to plop onto a chassis that we would provide"

Four Wheel Campers just introduced a camper that meets these specs. It's designed to mount on a flatbed on a midsize truck like a Tacoma. It's a popup model.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/103933-New-Four-Wheel-UTE-Flat-Bed-Model-Coming-Soon

If you prefer a hardsided camper, Northstar makes a flatbed camper with side entrance. It works best on a larger truck.
http://www.northstarcampers.com/online-catalog.php?view=item&parentId=15&catId=19&numId=53

XP Camper has a new model that is somewhere in between a hard side and popup. Their V2 model has a hinged hardside roof that pops up when stopped, and lowers for travel. The current V2 is designed for a midsize truck. The V3 model for full size trucks is under development, and may be available in about a year.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...amper-V2-Tacoma-Camper-Specs-Pics-and-Pricing

Two manufacturers who are amenable to custom work are All Terrain Campers http://www.allterraincampers.com/ and Phoenix Campers http://phoenixpopup.com/ Both primarily make popups, but they may be willing to work with you on a hardwall design.

Additional examples of custom hard sided campers can be found in this thread. lots of very clever ideas here.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/78090-Customized-hard-side-camper-examples
 

FeralK

New member
Pop-ups are definitely out for us. I had an open mind about them, then saw a bunch at the Overland Expo and . . . eh. Great idea for camping, I think, but not fulltime living. I also saw the XP V2, and while I really liked the concept, the execution was a bit less than stellar. Simply getting in and out of the thing was challenging.

Your Northstar suggestion, however, really bears some looking into. I haven't really been impressed by the production truck campers we've seen, so I'm trying not to pre-judge. On the surface, it looks great! I've requested additional information from them. Do you know if they ever went into production with the Escape Pod? http://www.roamingtimes.com/rvreports/northstar-escape-pod-truck-camper.aspx

I thought I had considered all of the options -- I'm glad to be proven wrong!
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Some Thotz

Consider:

-- As has already been noted, everyone's needs/wants/minimums/maximums are different. Everything is a trade off - weight/comfort/rough road capability/cost. Free advice isn't always worth what you pay for it.

-- We have done much the same analysis you have, with similar goals: Long Time (not full time), US/Europe/Middle East, two adults, indoor plumbing, heating and A/C.

-- A key decision is: Live in or live beside? If you want to live beside, then a 4x4 pickup or a Suburban with a topper or perhaps a roof top tent and you are laughing. Done it, but it gets old after a few months and in the rain/snow or at altitude. If you want to live in, then the costs begin to rise fast. A really good, the classic basically, study of this issue can be found here: http://www.xor.org.uk/silkroute/equipment/choosevan.htm You really should read and digest this material (if you have not done so already) and remember, in the end, he bought a commercial truck.

-- If you want indoor plumbing and can live without a pass through, then a BAT (Big American Truck) and a slide in may be the fastest and lowest cost solution. Two folks on the forum have built very impressive vehicles: http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...pedition-Camper-Custom-Build-Ready-to-Explore and http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/23173-F550-Flatbed-Build And a personal favorite: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/8251-Brad-Christ-s-Kodiak-w-Lance-camper The new owner is active on RV.NET and was at Overland EXPO this year. You may have seen the beast.

We have a Tiger Malayan HT in production. Tigers are not cheap, but I know of no less expensive way to meet your criteria and still keep a pass through. The Malayan HT meets your size criteria exactly, compared to the regular Malayan it adds a 15 inch wardrobe and a queen sized bed. Compared to the Bengal, it adds all aluminum construction and (hopefully) better insulation. Can you live in it full time or take it overseas? These folks, whom I know, have been doing it for years: http://www.travelin-tortuga.com/Travelin-Tortuga/Home_Page.html

-- If you want low cost and a fix up base, you could do much worse than to buy this one: http://tigerowners.freeforums.org/noneck-s-tiger-for-sale-t372.html

Final thoughts:

-- If you have been to a regular RV show, then you will have noticed that most have interiors made of cardboard. Better campers use plywood and screws, a Tiger uses nylok nuts. Tiger has been listening to customers who have really been using their campers for years and makes an extraordinary effort to meet the needs of someone who wants to do extended bad road travel.

-- All of this means that a one ton pickup (350/3500) is probably the minimum you should consider, and even then you will be looking a suspension upgrades.

Best wishes and happy shopping!
 
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FeralK

New member
Well, the advice I've received here so far has been worth MUCH more than what I've paid for it! The Northstar link/options has proved to really open some new doors; they have a hardsided flatbed model called the Escape Pod (not on their website, but still available) that could conceivably go onto our existing Toyota, drastically lowering our try-out-this-lifestyle risk. I talked with Rex, the owner of Northstar Campers, this morning and he seemed like a very good contact; he also turned me on to a few used models (in NC, natch) that might suit our needs. In any case, there's a local dealer here just an hour or so away, so tomorrow we're dropping in for a visit. If these things turn out to be of even slightly better construction than I've seen (I remain unimpressed by Lances and the like) then I think we might be on our way to solving our more immediate problem. Whether such a vehicle would turn out to be a long-term living solution remains to be seen, but no doubt we could drive around in 4WD style for a year or two as we figure things out, and for not a whole helluva lot of money. Even getting a bigger pickup, as DiploStrat has suggested, would still be an option with an American Hero on the back. Still cheaper (and probably way smarter) than having something custom built at this stage.

Y'all have been AWESOME!
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Dave Truzinski (http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...pedition-Camper-Custom-Build-Ready-to-Explore) built his truck with a Northstar. I had never heard of them but was impressed by the fact that they make models for export to Sweden and actually offer a warranty on the ones they sell in Oz. I actually saw a few Northstars at a dealer in North Carolina and they looked good. All of the truck campers that I have seen have been at least one grade below the quality of Tiger and Earthroamer. (There are good reasons for the price.)

Custom building is always expensive, as in more expensive than you expected. But kitting out a box or redoing an existing camper is quite feasible if you are handy with basic tools and understand a bit of cabinetry. Another possibility might be to engage a local builder/handyman to work with you, thus gaining access to tools and talent while still putting in a lot of your own sweat equity.

There are few "wrong" decisions and as many different formulae as there are people. The one "wrong" decision for dirt roads is too much camper for too little truck. Pop over to the truck camper fora on RV.NET and almost all recommend going directly to the one ton model for almost any slide in camper. And that is for paved roads. Factor in dirt and you need twice as much truck and half as much camper.

But again, my experiences and needs may not match yours. :)
 

julius0377

Adventurer
Sprinter 4x4

If you like the sprinter and want a 4x4 version, contact Oberaigner in Germany. They are an OEM supplier of 4x4 to Mercedes as far as I know, and provide factory warranty. You could probably ship a US sprinter to them, have a superb 4x4 conversion done with single rear wheels, diff-locks, ESP intact, etc.

Link: http://www.oberaigner.com/en/vehicles/sprinter4x4.html

Other providers of 4x4 for the sprinter are Achleitner and Iglhaut (both in Germany i think), but I'm not sure if they provide ESP functionality. Iglhaut is supposedly not great on ground clearance, but can't find where I read it now...

You could also buy a finished 4x4 sprinter motorhome from one of these european manufacturers, with a bit of dealer haggling maybe built on a US version Sprinter chassis:
http://www.lastrada-mobile.de/index...&itemid=33&menuid=3&languageid=2&load_movie=1
http://www.cs-reisemobile.de/cs-modelle/independent/e-independent.htm#start
http://www.hrz-reisemobile.de/pages/gallery/hrz-freedom2341.php

CS and HRZ are small manufacturers that can tailor the vehicles to your needs. LaStrada less so I think, but they have a long list of options.
 
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southpier

Expedition Leader
......possibility might be to engage a local builder/handyman to work with you, thus gaining access to tools and talent...

not to hijack this thread - but - is this a viable vocation? I've got 43 years experience in the residential construction field an am looking towards retirement next year. not to do nothing, just get off the hamster wheel and enjoy myself. and how could I market my skills?

thanks; and good luck FeralK!
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Viable vocation? Who knows? Having done a lot of camper conversion work on previous Blazers, I do know that if I were to try to do a home brew this time around, especially at my age, I would want an experienced craftsman (cabinetry skills a plus) to work with me. How do you sell your services? Craigslist? This forum, who knows?
 

Entropy

Observer
Here in Florida I see road-side ads for RV-related work including remodeling, maintenance and repair. Considering the generally poor quality of RV construction and the number of snowbirds down here, I suspect they stay busy, at least in the winter months.
 

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