Looking for advice on bodywork & painting my rig myself

jps4jeep

Observer
For me, anything that will get pin-striped by trees and potentially take body damage. I use Tractor supply farm/tractor/implement paint. prime then single stage paint. I use a cheap HVLP harbor freight gun and reduce the paint slightly, it lays fairly smooth. The paint is very durable and for someone who is admittedly NOT a paint or body guy, very forgiving.
 

OverlandZJ

Expedition Leader
I went with a semi-gloss single stage and a HF HVLP gun, I did not want something shiny and needed maintenance. Just soap and water when needed. I was extremely pleased with the outcome. While not intentional I sprayed a bit on the "dry" side, meaning it gave the coating an almost industrial texture.. I just did not want runs and knew i'd be content with a less than perfectly smooth finish.

I figured since this was my first attempt this method would be more forgiving, and I would have a bit more experience in the future if I wanted to attempt two stage. Enjoyed the experience, cost was acceptable and i'd probably do it again on my current rig considering it's intended usage.

I also considered the Tech School route but timing didnt allow.
 

1leglance

2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
Really great advice guys and a wide range of thoughts on paint...which is ok with me as I like to look at all my options.

My budget is not set in stone and I think I am in more of a mental bind due to having 2 competeing concepts for paint quality.

On my 70 Burb it will get desert pinstripping and I could care less about a super pretty paintjob. As long as I find nice medium blue and white then I would be happy.
On the 72 truck it is the street machine and it would be nice to have the higher quality paint on it.
So maybe instead of getting 1 system for both rigs I will go cheaper on the burb and spend more on the truck.
 

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
So maybe instead of getting 1 system for both rigs I will go cheaper on the burb and spend more on the truck.

I don't want to keep beating a drum here - but I'd say go with the two step on both of them.

Start with the 'burb. The practice there will give you a bit of experience & lead to a better quality finish when you paint the truck.
 

Alastair D(Aus)

aging but active
I am in Aus but I think my comments are still relevant to you. I was a rank amateur but managed to do a fair job.

Preparation is the key and good advice from an automotive paint supplier is a good place to start. Where I buy my stuff a couple of the guys behind the counter are ex paint shop workers and are happy to give advice.

I bought a big piece of sheet metal and practiced getting the gun settings right and my hand coordination so I got an even coat. It helped a lot as up to then I had only sprayed small things. Very different.

Do buy good paint. Against advice I bought some cheap stuff to practice and was very dissapointed. When I switched to the proper paint it was easier. Make sure you take notice of the paint to thinner ratio that you find best because it makes a big difference. I was too casual at first and had too much variation.

Unless you can count of the weather and have the space consider building a spray booth out of cheap pine timber and sheet plastic stapled and taped on. Inside a garage is even better as the wind is less of a problem. (Put a piece of masking tape on before the staple and it will last longer). The paint overspray travels a long way and it sticks to anything in its path. Cars and windows are hard work to clean afterwards. Smell is also a problem as some people really hate it. Neighbours will not be happy if it drifts their way. Murphys law says that as soon as you start spraying for real a wind will blow up and bring dirt. The smallest amount really shows up.

Don't spray if it is cold the paint will take too long to go off and increases the chance of dust etc. I was told that some paint will never get the full sheen if it is cold and takes too long to dry. The pros use heat lamps etc to avoid this and I can understand why now.

I found that light coats were easier at first and helped me avoid paint runs. After a while with practice I got more confident and could lay down better coats.

My first real panel was a disaster because I had not done the preparation well and the base coat was not good enough. I ended up taking it all off and starting again. The defects really show up when you put the shiny paint on the primer doesn't.

Sorry to be long winded.

Good luck - take it slow to start and I think you will get a good result.
 
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I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
Prep it well. That's THE most important step no matter how much you spend on either type of paint.
Use a sealer over the existing paint to help avoid any sort of incompatability issues. Sealer is cheap and can help hide surface defects.
Sounds like single stage is right up your alley. Easy to spray, easy to maintain. Pin stripes? Just buff them out. Scratch? Quick wet sand and respray. Two stage does look better though.
Practice on an old panel to set up the gun and get the technique down. Don't start and stop in the middle of a panel.
Use automotive paint. Leave the tractor paint for the tractors. Have some pride man!
Have fun with the kids!!!!
 

fluffyprinceton

Adventurer
Sounds like single stage is right up your alley. Easy to spray, easy to maintain. Pin stripes? Just buff them out. Scratch? Quick wet sand and respray. Two stage does look better though.

I'm surprised about the positive remarks about clear coating a truck that's used, well as a truck...Maybe I'm missing something? "Two stage does look better though". True...the gloss is deeper. X2 on I Leak Oil's approach. Also good auto paint doesn't just look better - it's harder, lasts longer, cleans easier and is just as easy to touch up as any paint that's sprayed. Moe
 

nemoaz

Observer
Have you looked into any autobody classes offered by your local community college or school district? There are some very afordable options here locally that offer access to the tools, booth and instruction. Quite a few in our local 4x4 community have done this route with high praise, hoping to go this route myself when my schedule settles.
This is a great idea. Also, checkout the "Butler Collision" videos on youtube.
 

nemoaz

Observer
Anyone besides Brian-Goodtimes in the basecoat/clearcoat camp?
I have been reading alot on the autobody forums (there is a forum for everything of course) and those guys go on and on about how much better a bc/cc is since you can colorsand any runs/orangepeel/mistakes and reshoot before you clear coat.

My concern is the brutal Arizona sun and what it might do to a bc/cc finish unless I spend a bunch of money on the paint.

In the Arizona sun, I wouldn't consider anything but bc/cc. It will last many times longer. You usually don't sand the bc. It's thin and there is a window for how fast you need to spray the cc. Also, metallic bc don't look right after you've sanded it because it moves the flake around. CC does hide bunch of problems itself.

As others have said, the devil is in the prep really, not the paint so much... though I'd without a doubt buy auto paint. You can get it here at most Napas and Carquests. You need to spend money on the right degreaser and ensure your surface isn't contaminated, too, and that adds up. Best to stick with one brand IMO to ensure there are no problems with chemical interactions.
 

may pop

New member
Give the Kirker products a look. Ive used the Ultra-Glo with nice results but not long enough ago to give a long term report.
Around 100 a gallon for acrlic urethane.

Ron
 

magentawave

Adventurer
I don't have a garage to paint my vehicle in so of course I'm concerned about stuff sticking to it while the OIL BASED PAINT drys. Oil based, as in it will take a lot longer to dry than lacquer (aaargh!). I'll spray the ground around the vehicle frequently with water to keep the dust down but have two questions please...

1) Does anyone have any creative solutions for painting oil based paint out in the open?

2) Typically how long will it take for oil based paint to dry enough that stuff won't stick to it? (Figure mild San Diego coastal weather of 75 to 80 degrees)

Thanks
 
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soonenough

Explorer
I've never painted an entire car, but my father-in-law and I painted the camper shell on my truck last summer. Since my father in law does a lot of paint and body work (and I'd never done any and wanted to learn), we decided it'd be a good small-ish project to tackle ourselves. I'll run through the basic process we followed. I'd written this post to provide info in my build thread for those interested in painting with a base coat + clear coat, but I figured this would be a good place to post it as well.

The original silver silver paint was in really good shape, which allowed us to do a basic 'scuff-and-shoot' rather than completely removing the old paint. The main problem with was that the bottom edges of the shell were pretty beat up along both sides where it had been sitting on a garage floor. Thankfully there were no cracks or other significant damage to the fiberglass, which would've added a bunch more work.


There are several variants of the 040 Toyota Super White color in the paint line we chose. The paint shop gave us paint cards to compare to the paint on my truck to see which one is the closest match (my truck ended up being a slightly more bluish hue than the official 040 white). If the truck was brand new, this wouldn't have been an issue, but since the truck was almost 5 years old at this point, the paint had definitely faded from summers in Texas.

All in all, this project took 2 full weekends of work to finish, and that doesn't count the time reassembling the Yakima tracks on the roof and remounting the 3rd brake light in the back. It was a real eye-opener as to the amount of work that goes into a good paint job. And believe me, this is definitely no show-car quality finish, we could've spent twice as much time filling/sanding/filling/sanding/etc if we wanted to. It was a ton of work, and if I had it all to do again, I honestly don't know if I would do it myself or just take it to a body shop (or better yet just wait to find a camper shell that's the correct color...seriously). I definitely learned one thing - I don't have the patience for paint and body work. All in all, I have around $400-500 in materials alone if you count all the miscellaneous items like tack rags, degreaser, tape, etc etc....whereas a body shop could've probably done the whole thing for around that much. However, I don't think a body shop would've done all the steps that we did, so I don't think the end result would've been as good in terms of the longevity of the paint job.


Materials Used
Primer: Nason 421-19 gray w/ 483-87 Activator
Sealer: Nason 422-51 white w/ 483-87 Activator
Color Coat: PPG Deltron DBC in 040 Toyota Super White variant 'B'
Clear: Advantage 545 w/ Activator
Fiberglass Filler: Dynatron Dyna-Glass short-strand fiberglass filler & activator
Polish: 3M Finesse II
Glaze: 3M Finishing Glaze
Miscellaneous: Nason silicon wax remover (SWR); 80-, 120-, 220-, 400-, 800-, and 1000-grit sandpapers; tack rags; lacquer thinner; etc etc


1. Completely disassemble camper shell - remove the side window trim and windows/gaskets; completely remove rear window/frame/gasket/lift-glass by drilling out rivets; peel/scrape off the old bulb seal material from the underside of the shell (the area that seals to the top of the bed); remove roof rack tracks, gaskets, and hardware
2. Tape/mask off all areas that you don't want to get paint on (i.e. the entire interior of the shell since you do NOT want to remove the carpet, huge PITA)
3. Wipe the entire surface down with silicon wax remover
4. Sand the existing paint with 400-grit sandpaper on a DA sander. This gives the primer something to 'bite' on. Blow/wipe camper surface and surface of sandpaper frequently while sanding; this helps to prevent build-up of excessive sanding debris between sandpaper and surface which causes excessive scratching.
5. Use spotting glaze to fill in small (i.e. pinhole-sized) holes/divots in surface. After they're dry, lightly sand them with 220-grit sandpaper, followed with 400-grit paper.
6. Use 80-grit to rough up the surface of the damaged areas on the bottom lip of the shell. This will give the fiberglass filler something to bite on.
7. Use Dyna-Glass fiberglass filler to build up damaged surfaces on bottom lip of shell. Sand these surfaces down with 120-grit sandpaper on a foam sanding block. Blow/wipe surface frequently during sanding. Reapply fiberglass filler and resand as many times as needed to get a smooth surface. Ensure that all surfaces match the contour of the shell.
8. Use standard body filler to fill low areas as needed. After filler is dry, sand with 120-grit sandpaper on a foam sanding block. Reapply body filler and resand as many times as necessary to get a smooth surface. Blow/wipe surface frequently during sanding.
9. Resand entire surface with 400-grit paper on foam sanding block. Blow/wipe surface frequently during sanding. Check for problem areas and repeat sanding as needed.
10. Wipe entire surface with SWR.
11. Check tape to make sure it's still sticking properly. Replace as necessary.
12. Wipe air hose (for paint gun) down with SWR. Wash floor of work area with water hose and leave floor wet. Wipe surface of shell with a tack rag to pick up any remaining lint/debris.
13. Mix primer according to specs on bottle. Add fisheye preventor to primer.
14. Shoot primer over entire surface and allow to completely dry.
15. Sand entire shell with 400-grit paper on a foam pad. Blow/wipe surface frequently during sanding.
16. Wipe surface with SWR. Re-spray primer on any low areas. Resand. Blow/wipe surface frequently during sanding.
17. Wipe surface with SWR.
18. Shoot sealer coat (this step is optional. I did this mainly because the primer was gray and we chose a white sealer, meaning the paint would end up coming out closer to it's ideal color when shot over a white base instead of a gray base).
19. Lightly sand seal coat with 400-grit paper if necessary to remove nubbins. Blow/wipe surface frequently during sanding.
20. Remove all old masking tape and paper. Re-mask and re-tape all areas with fresh paper/tape.
21. Wipe surface with SWR.
22. Wash down floor of work area with water hose.
23. Wipe surface of shell with tack rag.
24. Mix paint according to specs on bottle. Add fisheye preventor.
25. Shoot white paint onto camper surface. Make sure to shoot with even overlaps. Shoot enough paint on each area to get surface fully 'wet' but not enough to cause a run. We used 2 quarts of reduced paint for the entire exterior of the shell.
26. Wait 20-30 minutes for paint to flash dry.
27. Mix clear according to specs on bottle. Add fisheye preventor.
28. Shoot clear onto surface following same procedure as white paint. We put a TON of clear on the shell 1) because we had a bunch of it, and 2) so that there is plenty of clear available for sanding, both now and in the future.
29. Allow paint to bake in the sun as long as possible (we left it out for most of the afternoon)
30. Wait until next day to wet-sand the clear coat. Wet sand entire surface with 1,000-grit on a soft foam pad, keeping the surface very wet and rinsing often with clean water.
31. Polish surface with 3M Finesse II on a circular polisher to remove wet-sanding marks.
32. Apply 3M Finishing Glaze to surface with a circular polisher.
33. Reassemble windows and roof rack hardware VERY delicately (especially when the paint has only been curing for about 24 hours and you have to remount the shell and get on the road for a 4-hour trip back home).
34. Wait at least 3 weeks before going through the car wash / power washing / etc. To give you an idea of how soft the fresh paint is, after a week of this thing baking in the Texas summer heat, when I remounted the 3rd brake light, just the pressure from pushing it down onto the surface of the shell to get the sealer/adhesive in place caused the paint to displace around the brake light housing...that one had me puckered up for sure. Thankfully it hasn't started peeling or chipping away yet...fingers crossed.


Oh and I forgot to mention the whole process of sanding down all of the metal parts of the window frames, taping off the glass, degreasing the frames, and painting all of them flattened black (my father-in-law happened to have a quart of Lexus gloss black paint on hand from an old repair so we just added some flattening agent and shot it). They came out looking great.

 
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magentawave

Adventurer
Good stuff - thank you! Does anyone have any tips for painting outside? How about the "$50 paint job" where you roll Rustoleum paint thinned 50% with paint thinner instead of shooting it?
 

haven

Expedition Leader
A friend took the Rustoleum approach with an old Honda. The results are about what you'd expect: A durable coat of paint that looks like the finish on a 20 year old manure spreader. Cheaper than rolling on bed liner, though.
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
WOW Ryan, you must be a painter!

Gotta say guys, for the time involved, learning techniques of painting ridges and curves, buying materials and getting a place ready to paint in, I'd take $300 to Earl Shribe for the paint special of the day and have them do it.

You might get it cheaper if you do some prep work. At least wash the thing really good (no wax) before you take it in, I had them do one car and they painted over bird crap, had to take it back and made them fix that. They did and it turned out pretty good, better than I would have done. :)
 
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