Colonal's +Adventure Prescription+ | A Toyota 4Runner 5th Gen Story

Colonal Angus

Adventurer
Not many people are running diferent UCA's but I plan on doing it when I get mine. If you're going to lift your rig why skip on the UCA's, right? Do you plan on getting bumpers, sliders, drawers, etc? From what I have heard the light set up is pretty soft... If you plan on adding weight in the future I'd go with some stiffer springs but if you will continue to do what you have been doing then the medium setup might work pretty well. Just keep in mind this advice is coming from someone who does not yet own a TE and is just from what I've read and heard haha. Lame I know. Rig looks awesome!

Although, you don't have a TE yet...I know you've been reading and learning a ton about them. Posts like yours are just what I'm looking for. I spoke to Slee several months ago, told him my plans and even with drawers, fridge, sliders, bull bar and winch, etc and he still recommended the light. He felt like the OME 3" kit is just a little too much for the 4runner. Don't quote me on this but this is what I was gathering from him. He felt the added weight of the gear/mods combined with the "light" springs would help get the vehicle back down to a more tolerable height. I should've just priced the lift and the UCAs out together...considered that a complete lift and just stuck with it. BUT NO, I had to go and add just the lift to the cart and see how much cheaper just the lift was. So many people don't run UCAs and swear there are no problems...other guys say you can "get by" without them if you don't mind the out of spec alignment and uneven tire wear, etc. I just convinced myself to get the UCAs while typing this.


i was also considering the OME 3" with the medium springs. it kinda seems mixed on what people like about it. there are a lot of FJ guys who like the OME setup and many who don't. i think it ultimately comes down to if you can say you're satisfied with single rate coils and struts vs multi-rate or progressive rate coils and coil overs.

keep thinking unless you have a hole burning in your pocket. for me I've ended up moving towards paying up now for higher dollar and higher performing suspension products vs OME. but right now I'm also on the fence about upper control arms. i can always get them later, and I'm not sure the little bit of added performance and castor correction (especially with the size of tires I'm running) is going to make that big a difference.

A lot of guys do run coilover setups. I looked into them and read as much as I could about their serviceability and adjustability. Truth is, I don't know if I need something serviceable and adjustable. I just want something plug-n-play that is reputable, reliable and good. Man, I read one of your posts in your build thread regarding quality among coilover brands and was astonished at the knowledge you were dropping...stuff that I didn't even know existed hahaha. I tried searching on T4R.org but quickly noticed a lot guys run coilovers and not many go with OME over there. Not sure if It's because OME is inferior or just not the cool suspension to have over there. I kinda think Expo and T4R attract different crowds.
 
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marshal

Burrito Enthusiast
I would agree with you on that point. On Expo you're definitely looking at the utility or offroad community, and on t4r you have a mix of people who put 22" rims on their limiteds, some who wheel and others who buy shrockworks everything, stage 5 icon suspension and 295/70 mud terrains so they can get to the mall in time.

Truth is I'm guilty of convincing myself I need more than I do. I could get by with just the OME light suspension because my truck will be normally unloaded and I'm not entirely sure the direction I'm going to go will warrant higher rated springs.

What I fear and what seems is a common complaint among OME owners is shock fade from the steel bodied nitro charger shocks. Plus while OME stuff is known for a good ride and handling dirt roads exceptionally, they're still doing it with steel bodied shocks and single rate coils.

So really I'm on the fence too, and my knowledge base of components and companies is not helping me either.
 

marshal

Burrito Enthusiast
So look at it this way: you can get the old man emu setup from toytec with a diff drop kit, and the front struts already assembled for you for $1100 shipped.

Or you can get FOX, Camburg, KING, Icon, sway-a-way etc 2.5" aluminum bodied shocks, no external reservoir, extended travel with Eibach progressive rate coils, icon/eibach 3" progressive rate rear coils and the above listed brands 2.0 internal floating piston rear shocks for roughly $1700 shipped.

So now you move into specifics. The high end ones are obviously specifically made just for the vehicle in question. It's not a blanket shock that just so happens to work with 4th and 5th generation 4runners as well as tacomas and FJs. They all weigh different and they all perform differently. So now also with the OME 3" you're at high angle for your cvs and should probably do a diff drop. With the the coilovers you have the option to set them to any height from stock to 3.5". So you could easily do a 2.5" lift in that front and avoid dropping your diff, which causes you to lose ground clearance. You also keep your camber and caster further in check by staying a little bit lower. And sure, you can run bigger tires, but what matters is keeping them out of the fenders under full stuff, that is the bump stops responsibility, not the lifts

So bonus there

Next you start looking at your rear suspension. The rear suspension keeps the front in check. Since both ends are using coils, and sway bars they're forcing each other to work together. The common misconception is that independent suspensions and live axles work different. It's true but only up to a certain extent. What matters is that they're coil sprung with sway bars. That there is what forces the front and rear suspensions to work together. I know it's a little boggling but since I'm typing this on my phone I'll keep it brief and you can fill in the holes with your questions.

So because they woek together you really need matched components, and dynamic components. When I say dynamic I mean the capacity to change in and given circumstance. I'll use a fox IFP shock and an icon overland spring for an example. The fox shock uses an internal floating piston with internal bypasses. That means that through the compression cycle, the rate of resistance is not linear. The faster and further it compresses the more resistance it pushes back with. Then you have progressive rate coils, which are literally exactly what they sound like. There are many rates of load in that coil, based on which sections of the coil are supporting the load. That means that driving to Home Depot is comfortable, and bombing down a fire road is controlled, and hooking your 3,000lb camp trailer up doers make it squat. You don't HAVE to have a 600lb spring in all the time, but it'd there when you need it to be.

Last thing I'll type out with my poor thumbs is the need for a rear track bar at 3" of lift. You need one and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. At 3" of lift your rear axle will be 1" further to the passenger side than the drivers side. Simple geometry.

Ask a question. I'm sure I've made something confusing
 

sandcrawler

Observer
marshal is dishing lots of good info here. i'll just add that way, way back when OME first announced its suspension for the 5th Gen 4Runner, folks on T4R pointedly asked OME about post-install alignment specs and the need for UCAs. OME was decidedly silent on the issue. didn't give me a good feeling, personally.

still, OME kit seems like a good value to me, but it may or may not entirely satisfy your needs/desires long-term as well as specifically-tuned adjustable coilovers might. (price is what you pay; value is what you get.)

the well-worn upgrade path of spacer lift... then Toytec/Bilsteins... then OME... then adjustable coilovers (Fox, ICON, King, etc.) traveled by many who've ventured into the world of modifying their 4X4 more or less demonstrates that moving "up the food chain" offers more than just the opportunity to throw "good" money after "bad".
 
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SDDiver5

Expedition Leader
Colonel- I'm sure you've seen the Equipt TE build on here right? If I remember correctly, Paul had the medium springs for the rear and when he was loaded down with fridge, drawers, RTT, awning, etc. he said it sagged so he bumped up to the heavy springs and it made a big difference. Pretty sure it was the Equipt build...I could be wrong tho...

Marshal- So what you're saying is this, OME is more of a general lift with some pros and some cons, whereas, if you don't go OME you can maximize the potential with specific shocks and spring rates from the higher quality manufacturers?

So it's almost like ride control so you can adjust for your needs as they come like in your example with the fox shocks in front and the ICON overland springs in rear...but you end up paying more for it. You're a wealth of knowledge in this field and everyone appreciates it...but at the same time everyone hates it because it makes more sense to spend more money and have a better ride!! Damn you!
 

Colonal Angus

Adventurer
Marshal- So what you're saying is this, OME is more of a general lift with some pros and some cons, whereas, if you don't go OME you can maximize the potential with specific shocks and spring rates from the higher quality manufacturers?

So it's almost like ride control so you can adjust for your needs as they come like in your example with the fox shocks in front and the ICON overland springs in rear...but you end up paying more for it. You're a wealth of knowledge in this field and everyone appreciates it...but at the same time everyone hates it because it makes more sense to spend more money and have a better ride!! Damn you!

Couldn't have said it better myself!!! :D

I looked into the Icon coil overs this morning (should be working but dammit marshal)...I priced everything out from ext travel coilovers, springs, shocks, uniball UCAs, and the track bar...came out to like $2750.

I have a bunch of questions though....but for right now I have to get some work done to afford any of this. This site is the devil.

I need to look back at Paul's build. I haven't read it in a while. Sandcrawler makes a good point about OME not admitting the need for UCAs. They avoided that question about alignment specs like the plague.

Are UCAs needed for the standard travel coilovers...ah, I can't stop focusing on this topic.
 

marshal

Burrito Enthusiast
Don't buy icons billet anything. It's a retarded gimmick

Your best bang for the buck upper control arm is the Camburg uniballs. They're the only manufacturer to use a 1.5" uniball vs a 1". Icon makes a tubular upper control arm but they don't advertise it because it doesn't cater with their flat billed trophy truck crowd.

You can get extended travel coilovers and use the stock uppers. It's not like you're going to break something. Your travel is just limited to the articulation of the stock ball jointed upper.

The way I look at it is, the OME lift is good but requires a spring compressor to assemble them, plus you should use upper control arms and a diff drop.

The amount of money you're spending to mend shortcomings you might as well just get what you really want.

Icon makes really good shocks. They're made in house but they're made to the specifications they fox and everyone else holds theirs to. They use eibach springs in everything. Really top notch stuff. Where they get you is their bling bling control arms and people they think they need reservoirs and 2.5" shocks all around.

Shop smart and consider everything.
 

mfregeau20

New member
Hey guys, new to this thread but though I would provide some input.

I just bought a Icon Stage 2 set up for my 13 SR5 T4R. i went with this kit for price and it is a good base set up. I did go with Total Chaos UCA's rather then the Icon Billet or Tubular party due to availability on the Tubular and the Total Chaos is cheaper not by much but every little bit helps right!

I ordered my set up from Metal Tech and the price was just over 2K, it was a lot but in the end I think I will be satisfied once I get it on the rig. The front already has 2.5 with non Res so I can add a winch in the future and skids no problem. The back I went with the 2.0 VS that it comes with on the shocks to keep the price down I may upgrade if needed to a 2.5 Res in far future depending on where my adventures go and the need because I understand it they do provide more adjustments for the ride but not needed for your average DD with stock rear bumper.

I was like you and looked at all the options but in the end I went with Icon based on some recommendations from other T4R owners and there proven reliability with the T4R crowd.

I say do your research and buy with in your means but it is better to buy once then start at the bottom and move up when others have done this for you already!

Lessons learned by others!

Good luck
 

marshal

Burrito Enthusiast
Marshal- So what you're saying is this, OME is more of a general lift with some pros and some cons, whereas, if you don't go OME you can maximize the potential with specific shocks and spring rates from the higher quality manufacturers?

So it's almost like ride control so you can adjust for your needs as they come like in your example with the fox shocks in front and the ICON overland springs in rear...but you end up paying more for it. You're a wealth of knowledge in this field and everyone appreciates it...but at the same time everyone hates it because it makes more sense to spend more money and have a better ride!! Damn you!

i wouldn't really say that the OME is a general lift. what you need to do is strike the boundary between lift and suspension. with OME you're moving into suspension. its easiest to define the differences as fry cook punk vs professional businessman.

you have your coil spacer lift, then you have full strut replacements which is physical suspension work. once you have that difference separated you can start to acclimate your mindset on all the dozens of sub categories. how i see it is Toytec's bilstein lift is your base setup. yes it costs more than the old man emu, but thats because its a "coil over". then you have your old man emu setup, which is a tried and true performer but it has its limitations as I've gone over earlier. after that you're moving into hard core suspension dynamics. this is when you are moving past factory design perimeters.

your standard Old man emu front strut is using a "2.0" steel cased shock. there really isn't anything special about it if you're comparing it to your standard nitrogen charged damper. ah, now see i threw another word in there; damper. a shock absorber is a damper, and a damper is a shock absorber - however it falls into the same process of boundary that we previously used to separate a lift from a suspension.

there are two different types of dampers, twin tube and monotube. twin tubes are literally dampers in the fact that all its doing is shifting oil through a specific sized hole to simulate resistance. these dampers when compressed, don't return to their normal positioning. this is the standard among cars. however there are some brands that on their 'performance' packages like ford's FX4 or GM's Z71 or even the Jeep rubicon's that come from the factory with mono tube shocks. these mono tubes are built JUST like the OME Nitrocharger shocks, except slightly smaller. they way they function is that the the oil inside of the shock is in an emulsion with nitrogen gas. these shocks have internal resistance outside of the transfer of fluid. these shocks return to the normal extended position. these are your OME shocks, bilstein 5100's etc

now we move into real shock absorbers. these are the big boys with the internal floating piston. they're the same theory as the mono tube shock, and for the most part the same construction, but on a much larger scale tailored for performance situations. these shocks are the ones that use the 5/8's and 1/2" shock shafts, whom are aluminum bodied, rebuildable and are charged with 200PSI of nitrogen. these are big boys.

your Icon, fox and all the other brands that make a set for the front of the 4Runner's are using 2.5" shock bodies. this means larger piston, more oil, more nitrogen, larger surface areas. more capacity to exceed in demanding environments and tailored specifically to the vehicle.

so now we've separated the difference between the damper and the shock, and we already know that a coil over is nothing more than an adjustable strut thats self contained.

now you can parts match.

so in a sense, it is ride control - but not to the point of what you're inferring. you are literally controlling the ride. not in a sense of adjustability - but physically taking control of it. you are its master. thats the part matching. there isn't any reason to settle for linear rate coils, even if they do work well and come stock. these different parts can work smarter and harder for you, because of modern science and engineering. yes they do cost more, but what does that cost equate to in the end. is it lower or higher?


i'll run an example here. we'll use strut X vs coil over Y. strut X uses a linear rate coil spring made for several models of vehicles, the suspension on your 4runner shares components and a similar weight so ultimately it will work. so you end up adding a heavy *** front bumper and winch combo to the front of your vehicle and the springs sag 3/4 of an inch in an effort to hold the new weight. so now you have to spend 200 bucks plus your time and getting a spring compressor to change out these springs to the next higher spring rate set. you're good to go now, with new linear rate springs.

coilover Y has progressive rate springs, and its adjustable. the shock is made and tuned specifically for the weight and center of gravity that your vehicle has, plus its coil springs are matched the same way. more than likely the coil and the shock were also frequency tuned to work together. so you add that same heavy bumper and winch combo. you sag 5/8ths of an inch. why? because the lighter rate coils on the coil over could not handle that weight, but they're still working; the heavier rate coils below it are now supporting part of that weight. no big deal. below those coils are even heavier rated coils which are going to work with the shock to control compression and rebound. plus if you really want to get that height back, all you need to do is lift the vehicle off its own weight and grab your handy dandy spanner wrench and tighten. you're not further compressing the coil, you're changing its mounting point. so now you're back to sitting at the same height, with nothing lost.

that same system works on the rear suspension, then when you start tying in the fact that the front and rear suspensions work together - then you start mixing sway bars into it.


a long winded conclusion comes to this. a proper suspension requires every point to be considered. when you make a change to one thing, it affects other things - and all that needs to be addressed. i bet half of you never even considered that without a rear track bar, your axles thrust angle is going to be all ****ed up. its more than just lifting something.
 

ebg18t

Adventurer
i set up my 4th ten 4Runner with OME's, then OME springs with Bilstein dampers. Never was quite what i wanted. I ended up going back to Fox like i ran on my last truck. Not that i have revolved them and have the 8-way Adjustable's i can keep the truck riding like i want whether we are cruising the highway or on the trail going camping. There were pros:cons to each setup i have run but overall I am much happier with my final adjustable setup.

I would take a little more time and look at the Icon setups (skip the billet UCA's). They are a great product. As for UCA's they are not always needed for 3" or less lift. But they definitely make getting the alignment spot-on easier. For the price i suggest looking at the DSM/Desert Products UCA's from DownSouth Motorsports. When you have a little time call DownSouth Motorsports and explain what you are looking for and they can make a recommendation for you.
 

Colonal Angus

Adventurer
So, what would be the best entry level coilover suspension setup?

A)
FOX 2.0 Performance Series Smooth Body IFP Shocks
Rear Shocks
StyleVehicles with rear 2"- 3" lift
Vehicle2013 Toyota 4Runner

FOX 2.5 Factory Series Coil-Over IFP Shocks
Front Shocks
StyleVehicels with front 0"- 3" lift
Vehicle2013 Toyota 4Runner

ICON FJ Cruiser/4Runner Overland 3" Lift Springs
Rear Springs
Vehicle2013 Toyota 4runner

Total $1,591.77 (shipped)



B)
ICON 2003-Current 4Runner Rear 2.0 VS Series Shocks


2010+ FJ Cruiser Ext. Travel Front Coil-Over Shock Kit
Adjustable ride height from 0" - 3.5"

ICON FJ Cruiser/4Runner Overland 3" Lift Springs

Total $1,804.80 (shipped)

Does suspension A make sense? Can those components be used together? I found the FOX stuff online on sale with free shipping. Then again, I know the ICON setup (B) was designed to definitely work together. What do you think?

Here's my thinking...with coilovers, I can install the coilovers at 2-2.5" at first to avoid the immediate need for UCAs. The rear would be a little high with a full 3" lift back there...not sure if that would be okay. I could even just run the 2" ICON coils in the back at first if I had to. Then, when I save more money and avoid divorce from spending so much money on this lift...I can then buy the UCAs to enjoy the benefits of the extended travel shocks and get the track bar.


Any holes in this plan?

Don't hold back guys...if it's stupid, tell me :coffeedrink:
 

marshal

Burrito Enthusiast
i like B, though that suspension can be had cheaper with free shipping elsewhere if you know where to look *cough* poly performance *cough*

in fact its exactly what I'm looking at right now
 

Colonal Angus

Adventurer
i like B, though that suspension can be had cheaper with free shipping elsewhere if you know where to look *cough* poly performance *cough*

in fact its exactly what I'm looking at right now

Great, man!! Thanks!

I'll check it out tonight. Maybe a mini (2-person) group buy can be had.
 

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