Self-serving pop-up TC thread

freedomrider

Ordinary average guy
Hi all,

After over a year of researching my family fun vehicle and reading everything the whirled wide webs has to offer, I've decided to start my own pop-up TC thread to get a few unresolved questions answered. I'm essentially shopping for both the truck and camper simultaneously with the goal of ending up with a suitable combination for my needs (me, wife, and growing toddler to use for weekend state park camping as well as some light duty off-highway adventures).

The truck will a be a 1-ton crew cab but I haven't decided on long bed versus short bed yet. For the camper, I've narrowed it down to one of two Northstar units; the TC800 or the 850SC.

One of my big concerns is having ample room for cargo so a very appealing feature for the TC800 on a long bed is access to space along the sides of the truck bed. A few here on The Portal (regcabguy comes to mind) write very favorably about how useful this extra space is. It seems that this space is wasted for any other Northstar configuration (I'd be happy to be corrected if that assessment is wrong). On the other hand, for either the TC800 or 850SC on a short bed, the full wrap can come equipped with cargo boxes but it's hard to tell from photos what kind of space these really have. I'd appreciate any info on dimensions for these. In terms of cargo space, the 850SC on a long bed seems to take the biggest hit with no cargo boxes AND no access to the truck bed (again, someone please correct me if that's wrong). The plus side to either camper model on a long bed is that the trailer hitch is accessible for towing or for a bike rack/cargo box/etc. (I guess a hitch extension can always be added for a short bed if necessary).

So, for anybody who has endured my rambling to get this far, my questions (for now) are:

1. Is the TC800 on a long bed the only camper configuration that provides access to the space along the sides of the truck bed?

2. How much useful space do the full wrap cargo boxes really add?

And a bonus question:

For light duty off-highway use (e.g., maintained fire roads), which would be more limiting; a short bed truck with rear camper overhang or a long bed truck with little to no overhang?

Thanks in advance.

Mike
 
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brian90744

American Trekker
your choose

Mike .
Why not go and look at these campers @ American Camper (NorthStar dealer) in Stanton, Calif . Truck 4x4 or 2x4 ?? diesel or gas?? just some question you must make.
brian
 

freedomrider

Ordinary average guy
Why not go and look at these campers @ American Camper (NorthStar dealer) in Stanton, Calif . Truck 4x4 or 2x4 ?? diesel or gas?? just some question you must make.

Hi Brian,

I thought I checked their on-line inventory and didn't see any Northstars but, upon rechecking, I don't see any on-line inventory for them so I'll call to see what they have since seeing them first hand would be best.

Truck will be SRW 4x4 and probably gas.

Mike
 

CJB

New member
We have a 2009 850SC and there are doors on both sides allowing access to the sides of the truck bed. It is very useful to have those areas available for storage although having the doors on the back of the 800 would be handy for long items. Ours is on a 2500 4x4 Silverado long bed so those cargo boxes are buried somewhere in the garage and I cannot provide you with dimensions of the storage. I would call Rex at Northstar with any questions. I had a couple of long discussions with him as well as some very detailed emails before purchasing which were very useful. We purchased at American Camper from Ron and every time I have been there he has had a couple of popups on the lot. We love ours and Rex is amazing with customer support after the sale.
 

freedomrider

Ordinary average guy
Just called American Camper and they have an 850SC in stock so I'll take a look this weekend. Unfortunately I spied some Lance hard side campers there using Google Maps street view of their shop so that's pushed me a step back in my decision making since I was almost ready to go with a hard side TC just one month ago.

Looking back, I realize I've been researching the 'perfect' camping vehicle for more than 22 months with every iteration failing due to compromises I was unwilling to make. It started with a few months trying to design the perfect Sportsmobile but I couldn't see dropping $70k for something with too many things lacking on my want list (no LATCH capable second row seats were the final deal killer). So I toyed with designing a home-built van for a while. Then a pop-up truck camper was briefly considered, then back to various van set ups, then back to pick ups with a shell and well-designed drawer system. Then it was RoadTrek's Nissan NV conversion which looked great but was a no go due to no LATCH seats. Then it was on to pop-up trailers that could be towed with my existing vehicle but they're slow set up defeats the purpose for me (can set up a tent almost as fast). A new half-ton pickup and hard side hard-side trailer made a brief showing but I decided that towing a trailer would be too limiting. Hmmm, a hard side truck camper can have all the amenities of a trailer without the towing hassle but then I started reading about the instability problems from the high center of gravity. So it's currently back to pop-up truck campers but this decision is walking an unsteady tightrope so I need to avoid any distractions (like luxurious Lance campers :Wow1:).

Gee, I used to just grab a sleeping bag, a pack of matches, and some canned goods to go camping. What happened? :1888fbbd:

Cheers,
Mike
 

mkish

Adventurer
What happened? You got old! :)

We have a '12ish 800 with the jumbo bumper wrap on a '12 shortbed f350. First of all, you sure you can go without a potty? I was going to get the 850 until it became very clear that the potty was not usable with the top down (and the dinette was also shorter as a bed--there are 4 of us so we need that bed). So we did the 800 plus portapotty. But potty use is soon going to have to be in a tent because the kids are big enough that...well, you know.

We've done 2 week trips out to Utah (in the winter, so parkas taking space) and had plenty of storage. There is a lot of storage under and next to the bed but it's sort of a pain to get to it fast. We only needed external storage (cargo tray) when we brought a canoe and inflatable kayak on a trip. The tray didn't stick out much past the camper bumper. We could have put all that stuff on the roof but it's nice to not have to unload to pop up--we only had the 50 lb canoe up there and it opens fine with that weight.

Anyway, you can access the space in the bed--just not as easily. We put chairs, folding (canvas type) table, huge shower tent, PFDs, paddles, and miscellaneous stuff down there. It's a hassle but not too bad. We also have the gray tank (get it.) which is sort of in that space.

The wrap cargo boxes are useful! Maybe the space would be more useful if we got the long-bed model and stuck stuff through those back doors, but we didn't want a long bed. So there! I'd go measure them but it's cold out there. It's in the fifties! You CAN store some stuff in the big bumper, but it's really just there for getting in and out: a glorified step. We need a stool to get to the flip-down step on the big bumper (4wd truck) but we need to pack it anyway so the kids can reach the sink. I like the huge bumper.

Just between me and you, I don't think you're all that likely to have problems with the higher center of gravity of a hardside unless you go for a basement model. The Lances are nice, but the Northstars are narrower and really, do you need a stereo system? A microwave? An actual BLACK TANK? ewwwwww. Width is important if you're trying to get it somewhere like my back yard for storage. Every inch matters. Also it's probably slightly nicer to drive. The Laredo is basically the sc850 as a hard side and you can get it with a bunkbed for the little one. Or with a popout tent in the cabover. Or the dinette. So there are some nice perks for a hardside but you lose the fabulous windows and end up with a dark box.

You do need a TC though, especially in OC where you can do a lovely day trip to the mountains to play in the snow and then pop into your camper for cocoa and heat.


And you thought you could ramble.
 

freedomrider

Ordinary average guy
What happened? You got old! :)

Damn, ain't that the truth!

Thanks for the informative and entertaining post. You managed to answer many of the questions I failed to ask and nailed my anticipated usage pretty well (i.e., various watercraft and associated gear, day use in the mountains or beach, etc.). I'm also not thrilled with the prospect of emptying a black tank but I've read it's not as bad as one might imagine. I think we'd try to limit its use to mid-night tinkling.
 

mkish

Adventurer
Those "pull over now I have to go to the bathroom" moments happen and there's where the TC really shines and why I was willing to lose the spaciousness of a popup trailer. Also lunch. There have been plenty of campground and gas station restrooms I don't want my kids to use because they can't quite grasp germ theory.

A black tank holds more I suppose so you don't do it as often. It's just if you DO have to empty it, you have to move the whole camper to do it. They're probably fine. Most RVers seem happy with them (or they don't think about them) (but you still have to go to the dump station where who knows which tourist with their rental class C knew least about dumping etiquette...).

If you do get a Northstar and you're getting a new one, look into their boat rack before ordering it. We have one--it's fine for a boat but at a 6' spread for the crossbars, you'll have to get more crossbars for anything else. So you might want to hold out and put in your own Yakima/Thule system. Come to think of it, we had to add on a set of foam blocks for comfort to carry a 19' canoe, so we probably should have some with a Yakima track system too....

The company is nice and answers questions on the phone or by email and will tell you where to drill.
 

olsen_karl

Adventurer
One of my big concerns is having ample room for cargo so a very appealing feature for the TC800 on a long bed is access to space along the sides of the truck bed. A few here on The Portal (regcabguy comes to mind) write very favorably about how useful this extra space is.

I think I wrote about it somewhere on here too -- we have a TC800 on a longbed extended cab 3/4-ton GMC Sierra. It has the little doors on either side of the camper that allow access to the bed-side storage; truck taillights are exposed (i.e. this isn't the camper model with the wrap-around back panel, that comes with its own taillights): one side holds 4 folding camp chairs, wood saw, grey water drain hose (no grey tank); the other side holds a hi-lift jack + wheel lift strap adapter, folding camping table, outside propane camp stove, freshwater hose, and some small propane bottles for a BBQ. Those storage compartment access doors were one of the attractive features of the Northstar for us, and the general reputation for build quality sealed the deal.

I considered an 850SC model, but didn't really want the inside shower/toilet taking up space. We camp almost entirely off dirt roads, USFS/BLM land, rarely in developed campgrounds -- so showering outside (swimsuit showers) and using the trees for bathroom facilities. I found the TC800 used on craigslist and bought it as fast as I could.

The TC800 8-foot version runs to the end of the GMC 8-foot bed, and does not hang over the bumper at all. The full top of the factory step bumper is exposed, which has turned out to be useful as a small tabletop, as well as a step up into the camper. We have a step/extended thing in the hitch, and usually have a bike rack mounted into the extender -- one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/hitch-extender-with-step-97685.html

Then it was on to pop-up trailers that could be towed with my existing vehicle but they're slow set up defeats the purpose for me (can set up a tent almost as fast).

We had two pop-up trailers: an older one, to try out & see if we liked it, and a new Fleetwood E1 ("offroad" popup). Sold the E1 after a couple years, and a couple of sketchy towing events in snowstorms. IMHO, I can put up a tent or two, and set up everything inside (or break it all down & pack it) faster than messing with a popup. Lots of room when fully set up, but a PITA to set up or break down. The truck camper is perfect for us, and I wish we'd bought it earlier. The E1 weighed a ridiculous amount for a popup camper -- something like 3000#.
 

ChuckB

Expedition Leader
Looking back, I realize I've been researching the 'perfect' camping vehicle for more than 22 months with every iteration failing due to compromises I was unwilling to make. It started with a few months trying to design the perfect Sportsmobile but I couldn't see dropping $70k for something with too many things lacking on my want list (no LATCH capable second row seats were the final deal killer). So I toyed with designing a home-built van for a while. Then a pop-up truck camper was briefly considered, then back to various van set ups, then back to pick ups with a shell and well-designed drawer system. Then it was RoadTrek's Nissan NV conversion which looked great but was a no go due to no LATCH seats. Then it was on to pop-up trailers that could be towed with my existing vehicle but they're slow set up defeats the purpose for me (can set up a tent almost as fast). A new half-ton pickup and hard side hard-side trailer made a brief showing but I decided that towing a trailer would be too limiting. Hmmm, a hard side truck camper can have all the amenities of a trailer without the towing hassle but then I started reading about the instability problems from the high center of gravity. So it's currently back to pop-up truck campers but this decision is walking an unsteady tightrope so I need to avoid any distractions (like luxurious Lance campers :Wow1:).

lol… sounds exactly how my research is going!
 

freedomrider

Ordinary average guy
I got the family over to American Camper Shells on Saturday and we got to evaluate an 850SC and some smaller (650) units. Here are some impressions on the 850SC, which is most likely the model we're going to go with:

I was surprised by how spacious it felt inside; even with 3 adults and a toddler in it. The fabric walls of the pop up let in a lot of light compared to the hardwall campers that have just a few windows. This may be a moot point since I don't intend to spend a lot of daylight hours inside but I imagine I'll appreciate the ventilation with all those windows open. Also, the absence of high cabinets gave the camper a much more open feel.

I'm on the tall side so I also appreciate the extra interior height they added to the 850SC. The height of the 850SC in the pre-2011 model would probably make that unit a no go for me. My head was scraping the ceiling in an equivalently sized Lance, which are listed as 6'4" interior height.

I'd read that this style of table was not particularly stable and that's true to the point that I don't think it will get much use by me. At minimum, it will require some modifications to add stability or, more likely, I'll build something more sturdy from scratch.

Interior storage seems quite adequate for short excursions and there's room on the floor for water cans, a spare propane tank, bins with additional supplies, etc. if necessary. Removing a few bins prior to use is not a big deal to me. I already anticipate putting a stroller and bulky toys there.

More generally speaking, perhaps I was expecting too much from a camper but the overall build quality of the unit was a little lower than I anticipated. I didn't notice any particularly egregious quality issues but there were some items of minor concern. These were mostly areas on the exterior where access doors/frames were attached where I noticed some gaps. These may be purely cosmetic issues, which I'm okay with, but I'd be very unsatisfied if any of these were vulnerable to water incursion. Overall, I guess I'm surprised that high output RV manufacturers don't adopt some of the more modern materials and construction approaches that are readily available. On the other hand I understand the "if it ain't broke......" philosophy (i.e., I've yet to read any major complaints regarding Northstar camper quality and that says a lot in this age of information overload).

Also of high importance, my wife liked the camper and my son was absolutely stoked. As the saying goes, "happy family, happy Dad."

A big thank you to everybody who provided information and opinions to the discussion; it was all very helpful. I spent a long time researching this from every conceivable angle but I think the delay was worth it if it means ending up with the best vehicle/camper for my needs.

Cheers!
Mike
 

Darwin

Explorer
Overall, I guess I'm surprised that high output RV manufacturers don't adopt some of the more modern materials and construction approaches that are readily available. On the other hand I understand the "if it ain't broke......" philosophy (i.e., I've yet to read any major complaints regarding Northstar camper quality and that says a lot in this age of information overload).
X2!

I couldn't agree more. I really like some of the qualities of the Northstar campers, (cassette toilet, narrower width, dometic acrylic pop out windows on the hard sided campers) but, after talking with Rex on the phone, he is a nice guy by the way, I got the impression they think pretty highly of their campers, maybe a little too highly, and don't seem that interested in innovation or looking for areas where they could improve, especially in things like construction.

I have considered Livinlite hard sided campers, still not sure about them either though.

Anyways keep updating with what you find, like or don't like. A lot of us are in a similar dilemma.
 

mkish

Adventurer
If you think Northstars look like they are put together by Friday afternoon workers, you should see Palominos. :) (But they are priced appropriately.)

The fit and finish is sort of bleh, but really no worse than the big companies, and better than some. I also got the feeling that Northstar isn't all that interested in innovation, although mine does have LED lights. (Darn things are blindingly bright so we rarely use them at night, but if you do needlepoint after dark, you'll be set.)
 

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