Strengths and Weaknesses of your van

[intothewild]

I was thinking it could be fun to have a consolidated thread about the strengths and weaknesses of everyone's van. This could be helpful for people looking to get into the van game, for people not completely satisfied with what they have, but unsure of which direction they want to go with another project etc. Every van is different, one van might be perfect for one person, but for the next person it might be completely wrong.

Either way, I think it's safe to say, that the people on this part of the forum have already discovered the wonderful versatility of a 4x4/AWD van no matter the make or model. I would like to hear from everyone, whether it's Ford/Dodge/Chevy/VW etc

I suppose, I will start things off.

Year/Make/Model: 1995 Chevrolet Astro LT AWD
Drivetrain/Miles: 4.3L V6/Auto/155k miles

Strengths:

Perfect size for me, not too big, not too small.
Easy to lift ~2/4" or so.
Swapping a true 4x4 transfer case is not too difficult giving you 2wd/4hi/4lo etc
Interior space is larger than most realize.
Reliable, long lasting engine. The 4.3l is essentially a 350 minus two cylinders.
Parts are everywhere, easy to find, and cheap.
On Road ride quality is nice, smooth and quiet.
Tons of them for sale, and can typically find a nice AWD variant for a good price.
V8 Swap has been done time and time again.

Weaknesses:

Fuel Mileage..I struggled whether or not I should list this, it's pretty much a given that none of these vans will get great MPG. I do a mix of city/hwy driving and average about 14mpg. I was hopeful that I would pull 18-19mpg out of it when I bought it. I have got 18 before, but that was one very long, mostly flat and straight highway roadtrip.

Power..While the stock 4.3l is adequate, and has done fine in the Mountains of the northwest, I could see it struggling to get over some of the higher passes in say Colorado for instance.

Tire size..I have 235/75/15's on mine, which typically is not recommended without lift. They equate to roughly a 30" tire. While I don't have any lift on my van yet, they fit and are very tight. However, even once the van is lifted 4", that is about as big as you can fit, you can maybe get a 31" tire with a little massaging.

Aftermarket support..There are a couple vendor's who sell lift kits, and other small items for the Astro van. But to get serious, you will most likely end up doing some fab work yourself. There are no companies like U-Joint, Sportsmobile etc who do amazing work for the Astro.

Overall:

Overall I haven't regretted my decision of going with an Astro one bit. It fit's my needs and uses very well, fits my wife, my kid, my gear with ease, while still being able to pull right into a crowded parking lot and park in one spot. It blends in, it isn't showy, doesn't attract mischievous eyes. It's handled everything I have thrown at it and asked for more. No it will not cruise through the Rubicon or crawl over boulders, but it will get me where I need to go. As it progresses and I do a transfer case swap, lift, and gears, I really don't imagine many place's it won't be able to take me that I would be interested in going.

Picture: (Just post one in order to keep this thread viewable).


Feel free to edit your post at anytime as you think of things. I know I will for sure be adding things to this post, as I am still waking up and still need some caffeine. :coffeedrink:

 

[mgmetalworks]

Year/Make/Model
2013 Ford E350 EB with Quadvan 4x4 conversion
.
Drivetrain/Miles
5.4L, auto, 7500 miles
.
Strengths
Perfect for family adventure travel. Lots of room to move around inside and very comfortable for long drives, even on not so great roads. Hauls lots of stuff and keeps it all dry too.
.
Weaknesses
Fuel mileage, fuel mileage, fuel mileage... Save yourselves a lot of thought, if you're going to buy a Ford with a gas engine, get the V10 because as long as you're getting horrible mileage, you may as well have the power.
.
Overall
I don't have any regrets at this point. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably do things almost exactly the same except for the dealership I purchased from. If I hadn't had plans all along for the Cummins conversion, I would have gone with the V10.
.
Picture

 

[Cole]

Strength: VW

Weakness:VW




:coffeedrink:

 

[mgmetalworks]

Strength: VW

Weakness:VW


:coffeedrink:

HAHAHA!!! I can totally relate to that! I've had 9 VW's throughout my life....

 

[bdog1]

VW + custom harmonica holder! That makes it plus side heavy.


Sent by wing, prayer & ATT

 

[Cole]

HAHAHA!!! I can totally relate to that! I've had 9 VW's throughout my life....

VW + custom harmonica holder! That makes it plus side heavy.


Sent by wing, prayer & ATT

Well, now that we have the appropriate humor out of the way....though not finished! Let's look at some real pros and cons of the VW Eurovan!

First of all for anyone that has read my build thread, you already know that I have the most heavily modified stock van on earth! :coffeedrink:

I see many opinions listed above under pros and cons. I'll try to stick to facts or at least reason supported statements.

Pros: VW in partnership with Westfalia has come up with the most useful and copied floor plans for a dual purpose passenger and camper van on earth! Took them a few decades to perfect it but once they did nearly everyone in the market uses the same basic layout.

This translates into a very compact but useful platform. In stock form my "Westfalia Weekender" seats 7 and sleeps 4+a child. Plus storage for most of their gear! 5 of those seats face each other around a table, a refrigerator and standing room inside for 6'+ people. Front and rear heat stock, (mine has front and rear stock AC and 3 zone climate control since its a converted hardtop)

Fits in a standard 7' garage and actually into 6'5-8ish parking structures!

Technically only 2" longer than the same year Honda Accord and with a sharper turning radius!

Fits 4'x8' plywood sheets or two motorcycles inside!

4400lb towing capacity

Factory front seat swivels are available!

Stock mounting points for camper and other electronics!



Factory curtains and slider side windows with screens. Factory bug screens for the slider door and hatch!

Rear hatch opens upward for a large shade/rain shelter. There is a rear deck under the hatch hat is the perfect height for cooking food!

18-25mpg out of the VR6 and easy cruising at 80mph on high mountain freeways!

The sorta con list starts with the configuration availability in the USA! No 4x4 available on he the VR6 stock and certainly not in the USA. These were rare here! The VW T4 van only came to the USA in 93,99-03 as a short wheelbase! Winnebago imported long wheelbase versions and converted them into all white campers in 93,94,94,97,98,99-03. Some of the 93-95 versions were available with a 5 speed manual mated to a 5 cyl 120hp (ish) motor.

These vans are hugely popular around the world and hugely expensive due to their rarity in the USA! In other parts of the world they could be had in Various diesel and AWD formats!! (Working on converting mine)

The current downside to the stock autobox is that the first gear isn't very low for climbing steep slow grades. The front wheel drive has done amazingly well on soft dirty roads so far, but I wouldn't exactly go wheeling in it either! This is the type of vehicle you set up camp in and take your bikes or other toys out to go explore with!

 

[Stroverlander]

Great thread topic intothewild. All nice looking and interesting vans thus far.

Year/Make/Model:

2004 Chevy Astro LT AWD

Drivetrain:

4.3L Vortec V6
4L60E Auto Trans
NV136 Electronic Part-Time Single Speed Transfer Case
3.73 Gear Ratio w/G80 Eaton Automatic Locking Rear Differential

Modifications:

5" Lift
31" Tires
Jet Performance Programmer - selectable shift pressure/firmness/mph, tire diameter/gear/speedo correction and OBDII scanner/live data monitoring are the most beneficial features.
Other

Strengths:

All-around useability. From hauling up to eight people or two people and two motorcycles with gear, sheets of plywood, 10' 2x4s (between seats), tools, equipment, etc inside and out of view. 27 gallon fuel tank, 5000+ lb tow capacity.

Reliability cannot be understated and has been great overall, especially later model 2003-2005 vans. GM was on the right track with the updates, too bad they didn't carry on a few more years. Overall, engine and drivetrain have been VERY solid (trans cooler a must) along with the more powerful and longer lasting updated brake system.

Parking, especially in city. Even with lift, fits (barely) in 7' garage with rooftop tent removed.

Low profile, doesn't stand out going down the road so tends to fly under the radar, perhaps less so now with lift/tires but still understated which is my preference. The van is quiet and doesn't make a darn racket while idling or driving.

Price. There is no ridiculous cost of entry into ownership nor some secret handshake to be learned! :sombrero: There are decent vans out there to be had for a reasonable sum of money. The lower cost of purchase also means potentially more money left over for modification or travel.

Parts availability and cost. Sometimes I am genuinely surprised at just what I can find quality parts for with a bit of searching. The knowledge base and forum support is excellent.

Ability to modify, inexpensively at that. A solid base platform to convert into an expo type camper from simple sleeping bag on floor to full-blown pop-top camper.

Power is reasonably good with 190 hp & 250 lb ft torque, even loaded down I don't consider the van a slug.

The factory roof rack is not that bad and at minimum it's serviceable. I added four additional factory crossbars from salvage yard to help spread the load of rooftop while keeping it mounted as low as possible. Speaking of salvage yards, lots of options to pick through for various replacement items and upgrades plus all the other GM candidates for things like upgraded two-speed transfer cases, etc.

Dutch doors. Having had barn doors on my previous van I was sort of against the dutch door idea but now it is my preference. In inclement weather, the rear hatch door offers some protection and rear visibility is much improved especially with the defrost and rear wiper.

The dual (rear) a/c and heat does a much better job than the solo unit of warming/cooling the van and staying comfortable in all conditions.

Weaknesses:

Fuel economy. Went from 17-18 mpg highway to 15-16 mpg with lift and rooftop tent, 11-12 city.

Some wind noise as the miles add up but most can be taken care of with a bit of care or modification. New door hinge pins/alignment and weatherstripping/seals alleviate much of that.

You will be less respected by people in most other types of vehicles because of the "minivan" stigma, until they are left scratching their heads at just how capable your van is at swallowing cargo or handling various terrain. This type of thing has never bothered me nor affected my choice in four wheeled vehicles as purchases were made to best suit needs first.

You may often hear from people with a lack of any real experience telling you why your van isn't a good choice or capable of making it to wherever...

Front suspension and steering. These vans can start to feel loose with some play in the steering if you don't stay on top of maintenance. Front end rebuild is something to consider before lift modifications or long distance travel. Even with complete front end rebuild, all the parts you need can be had for less than $500, coupled with a (long) weekend's worth of work in the garage or driveway.

Overall:

This van has done everything I've asked of it and more. Being my second awd Astro van, I sort of knew what to expect but finding a van with such low mileage and the options I wanted has really made this one the perfect vehicle for my needs over the last seven years. I look forward to additional planned modifications and years of reliable adventure.

 

[Wiley]

There are no weaknesses with A Manly-Van

Year/Make/Model:

2004 Chevy Astro LT AWD

I have a less awesome version of this van.

Strengths - access to interior without getting out, great for when in an area you dont know and just want to pull up and sleep without drawing attention.
In 18 months on the road through parts of Latin America I only got stuck once, and I was only stuck because I didnt want to air down my tires as my compressor died, so I just asked for a push the next day. Otherwise, it got me everywhere i needed to go.
Blends in as much as a van from the US can, which is great.

Weaknesses:
Size. For long term trips I would have been more comfortable with something larger, but it certainly provided adequate space, a couple weeks is no problem but after awhile it got old (My trip was 18 months, and it was sufficient, but I could have used the additional space. I had a lot of crap, it is the perfect size if you dont bring lots of toys.
MPG-Enough said
Repairs, as mentioned parts are cheap which is great, but that means they dont last, the list of crap I have had to fix is pretty long and steadily growing. I have learned a lot when it comes to wrenching so I dont regret it, but damn you better stay ahead of the game with one of these.

Overall the Astro was perfect for driving through Latin America, it didn't draw too much necessary attention, and the size/handling was great on tight roads. As a wannabe surfer I am currently wrestling with the size though, and am weighing the pros and cons of the Astro vs Ford Transit for the additional space, but if I make the change I will certainly loose some pretty great advantages.

 

[Cole]

I have to say that I think the best bang for the buck van to build IMO is the Safari/Astro AWDs! Having owned many GM vehicles I looked long and hard at them. Some are literally "stupid cheap" for well equipped vans!

Unfortunately for me, I have a wife with a "Euro thing" and just couldn't sell her on the Safari. Don't get me wrong, after building my Eurovan, I do love it, but it comes at a cost! It also attracts a TON of attention! But again, at a cost! While it may be "uber cool" I don't think its the best choice for a back country van in the USA. Too easy to build up an Astrofari on the cheap and have a better mechanical platform! Jut need to cut a big *** hole in the roof for a pop top and you're set!!

 

[Johnrunberg]

Year/Make/Model
1983.5 Volswagen

Drivetrain/Miles
1.9L wasserleaker, manual, 200k+ miles

Strengths
In 1980 VW pretty much perfected the layout of a campervan. Front seats swivel to the rear. Stove/fridge/storage behind the driver. Storage under the rear bench that folds out to a twin sized bed. Rear overhead cabinet plus a clothes cabinet round things out. Add a pop-top hinged at the rear and you're golden. They did incremental improvements through the end of the run but the bones were perfect.

Even being underpowered, Vanagons can go some amazing places. Decent stock clearance (for a road-going van), a strong chassis and a complete lack of sense (on the part of the driver) makes for a fun time. I wouldn't recommend technical things but pretty much any dirt / gravel road is an option.

Ignoring how ugly they can be, Vanagons have huge interior room and a small footprint. Mileage can top 20mpg (18 is more common) and they just FEEL well built. Much better feel than my Jeep for sure. We've gone all over the place and on the east coast of the US (and much of the west) it can go 80% of the places I want to be. I'll hike to the rest.

Weaknesses
It's a VW which means underpowered, expensive to work on (if you have someone else do it -- if you can FIND someone to work on it who knows what they're doing), parts can be hard to find NLA (unless you know where to look) and you have to like/accept hippie jokes.

Speaking of jokes, the 1.9l (and the later engine as well) were overly complicated and prone to head gasket leaks. We've rebuilt once (spun bearing -- it still did 100k, slowly losing oil pressure), rebuilt the transmission and soon will be dealing with that other great thing of Vanagons -- rust. They rust in the seams and the Westys rust on the driver's side rocker from water entry at the hook-ups (and other places).

A big weakness is that you rarely find a Vanagon for sale that has been properly maintained. They run on and on and on until things start to break and then BOOM someone sells a POS to the next starry-eyed owner. Expect a waterfall of little things (and some big ones) unless you're really careful about what you're buying. Even then, these aren't extremely cheap vehicles to maintain. Parts are still out there, however, and there's a HUGE following so if you need help fixing something there's 1000 people who've gone before you (and would likely offer to help you out).

The last thing is that they are getting VERY spendy. I've owned 3 70s VW vans and 5 Vanagons and never paid more than $3k for any of them. Often far less. But a decent passenger van is now north of $4-5k and a Westfalia will start at $5k for an early 80s beater and run rapidly up to new-car prices for a late 80s 4WD model. Sheesh!

Overall
With the life I lead I can't imagine owning anything else. It makes a great economical daily driver and then can pop you off the grid for weeks at a time. It fits in the garage, doesn't look too "butch" and has storage for more than any human should ever haul along. Mine has a Subaru 2.2l being prepped for after paint work is done. Add a propane heater (and a better fridge) and I'll be happy for another 200k miles.

Picture


On the way to FloydFest (where we camped on-site and ended up offroading to get out -- FUN!) we stopped to eat and a tow truck pulled in beside us. NO we didn't need the tow. Still, seeing it there made me nervous :Wow1:

 

[Stroverlander]

There are no weaknesses with A Manly-Van



I have a less awesome version of this van.

Your van has to been to more awesome places for sure!

Strengths - access to interior without getting out, great for when in an area you dont know and just want to pull up and sleep without drawing attention.
In 18 months on the road through parts of Latin America I only got stuck once, and I was only stuck because I didnt want to air down my tires as my compressor died, so I just asked for a push the next day. Otherwise, it got me everywhere i needed to go.
Blends in as much as a van from the US can, which is great.

Weaknesses:
Size. For long term trips I would have been more comfortable with something larger, but it certainly provided adequate space, a couple weeks is no problem but after awhile it got old (My trip was 18 months, and it was sufficient, but I could have used the additional space. I had a lot of crap, it is the perfect size if you dont bring lots of toys.
MPG-Enough said
Repairs, as mentioned parts are cheap which is great, but that means they dont last, the list of crap I have had to fix is pretty long and steadily growing. I have learned a lot when it comes to wrenching so I dont regret it, but damn you better stay ahead of the game with one of these.

Overall the Astro was perfect for driving through Latin America, it didn't draw too much necessary attention, and the size/handling was great on tight roads. As a wannabe surfer I am currently wrestling with the size though, and am weighing the pros and cons of the Astro vs Ford Transit for the additional space, but if I make the change I will certainly loose some pretty great advantages.

That's why I like the rooftop tent option, frees up interior space while still being able to crash inside during bad weather or in sketchy locations.

Great point too about the freedom to move around inside and get into the back from the front seats, that's the main reason I haven't built or added a center console.

For me, a Ford Transit isn't long enough to fit motorcycles behind the seats, otherwise I do like that platform.

 

[Stroverlander]

I have to say that I think the best bang for the buck van to build IMO is the Safari/Astro AWDs! Having owned many GM vehicles I looked long and hard at them. Some are literally "stupid cheap" for well equipped vans!

Unfortunately for me, I have a wife with a "Euro thing" and just couldn't sell her on the Safari. Don't get me wrong, after building my Eurovan, I do love it, but it comes at a cost! It also attracts a TON of attention! But again, at a cost! While it may be "uber cool" I don't think its the best choice for a back country van in the USA. Too easy to build up an Astrofari on the cheap and have a better mechanical platform! Jut need to cut a big *** hole in the roof for a pop top and you're set!!

Cole, I dig your Eurovan, a 4x4 conversion would be tits!

Back in 2006, when I still had my 1997 Safari AWD I drove a Eurovan for a couple of weeks and that sort of sealed it for me that I was going to pursue another Astro AWD van.

While there were things I liked about the platform, I never felt comfortable with the the bus-like driving position even if leg room was much better! The VR6 just didn't feel as strong on the bottom end as the Vortec V6 though the VR6 was more rev happy. I don't remember fuel economy being a marked improvement either but fuel costs weren't as much of a concern back then. At the time, I really, really wanted a twin turbo Allroad but was hesitant about going back to a German auto (and an out of warranty one at that!) and so another awd Astro won out in the end.

 

[Wiley]

Your van has to been to more awesome places for sure!

That's why I like the rooftop tent option, frees up interior space while still being able to crash inside during bad weather or in sketchy locations.

Great point too about the freedom to move around inside and get into the back from the front seats, that's the main reason I haven't built or added a center console.

For me, a Ford Transit isn't long enough to fit motorcycles behind the seats, otherwise I do like that platform.

Its all relative friend, all the pics you post are places on my list, someday I will do a trip around the USA and Canada, but yes, the trips all of us take here and on astrosafarivans really show what these vans are made of. I go back and forth on the poptop all the time, I plan on checking one out before deciding on vans. You aren't confusing the transit connect are you, I am talking about the weird looking vans similar to sprinters, I dont think there would be a problem with a bike...the real problem is the van is probably never coming out haha.

Since this is a strengths weaknesses thread:

2015 Ford Transit
Strengths:
Size: 3 options, 130 and 148" wheelbases, plus a 148 extended cab
height - 83, 100, and 110" inch options
Engine, 3 options to fit your needs, 3.7L V6, 3.5L Ecoboost V6, and a 3.2L Diesel
MPG-original claim was they will get above 30, but now I am on the site and see a lot of the info has been removed, if it is under 25 I am out.


Weaknesses:
Unibody frame, this can be seen as a strength or weakness depending on how you look at it, and while they seem rugged from the initial tests, a unibody frame for a vehicle for off roading may not be best option but for my purposes it would be fine
Its constantly delayed, and info is sparse. Most recent projected release is summer of 2014. If they delay it again I will most likely give up on them, I just dont want to put money into the Astro until I make my mind up.
NO AWD or 4x4 option in the US. Someone (Quigly if I remember right) will do a 4x4 conversion, but the cost is unknown at this point, and they wont start them until 6 months after the vans hit the market, so there is more waiting...

All this info is from my head from a year or so ago, so its not very accurate.

Regardless to which vehicle I end up with in the future, I can't imagine not having a van now that I have used the Astro for overlanding.

 

[photogdave]

Year/Make/Model
1989 Volkswagen Syncro Westfalia

Drivetrain/Miles
2.1L waterboxerr, manual, 200k+ km

Strengths

Compact RV on AWD platform.
Drives like a car in the city and climbs like a mountain goat in the hills.
Small size and good turning radius make it handle great on the trails
AWD can be converted to 4WD easily and at reasonable cost.
Factory rear locker
An amazing array of aftermarket accessories, modifications and support.
Many reliable, more powerful and fuel efficient engine conversions available.
Rear engine, forward control layout gives it more interior space than similar vehicles.
Currently holding value very well

Weaknesses

Factory motor not powerful enough.
Not as fuel efficient as 2WD version.
Simply because of its age, many components need replacing or repairing
Some parts are expensive (but not as bad as generally believed)
High centre of gravity and aspects of approach/departure angles can limit some of its off-road capability
Until you get an engine conversion you keep one eye on the gauges, one on the road!

Overall

I simply wouldn't have any other vehicle. This is my second Westfalia, the first was 2WD. When the opportunity to won the ultimate version of these vans came along I jumped at it and have no regrets! It's taken a bit of work and money to get it where i want but most of that has been for upgrades. Don't believe the hype - they are just as reliable as any other vehicle of the same age still on the road. And Syncros aren't that much more expensive to maintain than 2WD unless you have a massive drivetrain failure.
The interior layout is simple, efficient and comfortable. My propane fridge works like a charm and can last two weeks running full time at full strength. The two double beds are very comfortable and the two-burner cooktop allows for the preparation of very fine meals!
With AWD and a locker I feel confident to go further off the beaten track than I could in my 2WD Westy and it's a great platform to build an expedition vehicle on.



[video=vimeo;43476654]https://vimeo.com/43476654[/video]

 

[Stroverlander]

Its all relative friend, all the pics you post are places on my list, someday I will do a trip around the USA and Canada, but yes, the trips all of us take here and on astrosafarivans really show what these vans are made of. I go back and forth on the poptop all the time, I plan on checking one out before deciding on vans. You aren't confusing the transit connect are you, I am talking about the weird looking vans similar to sprinters, I dont think there would be a problem with a bike...the real problem is the van is probably never coming out haha.

Yep, I was thinking of the Transit Connect and was sort of wondering why you thought it had more space! :wings: The Transit you're talking about is pretty sweet, definitely room for lots o'bikes in that one, hopefully it happens.