Overland in the Winter or High Altitudes

Angry_Man

Adventurer
Here's a great article from a friend, it's his personal adaptation of the PCU he used in the service. I'm sharing it since it applies to any kind of camping, hiking, mountaineering, etc year round in any climate. A lot of the brands we use have been questioned in this forum from what I'm reading.

As for my own take on things, Triple Aught Design, Smartwool, Darn Tough, PROSOK, Patagonia, Arc'teryx, and of course Mechanix for wrenching - these are all great brands with great equipment that will perform at the top. One last personal anecdote: when you know you have no choice but to be cold AND wet based on what's in front of you, nothing beats merino wool in layers. It's one of the few textiles that will insulate you while wet almost as well as when it's dry.

WORKING IN WINTER CONDITIONS - GEAR

A reader sent a question regarding how we work on winter conditions, what kind of gear we use.

I'm an alpine climber and a big believer of layering. Layering is very important not only to maintain a healthy body temperature across multiple temperatures and during exertion, but also allows you to adapt the kit to the ever changing conditions in the field, especially in winter.

I separate winter conditions in two: normal winter conditions and extreme winter conditions.
On normal conditions, temperatures are cold but not extreme. There is snow, but it's not necessary to use crampons or snow shoes. Wind can turn this normal condition into an extreme one. Extreme conditions are when you can't have exposed skin to the elements, too cold. Or the wind brings the chill factor way down. Snow and ice build-up require the use of either crampons or snow shoes and special gear needs to be used.

Usually on winter I layer as follow:

Base layer: Top: Patagonia Capilene 2 (mild winter) or Capilene 4 (extreme temps or high altitude). Bottom: Capilene 1 (mild winter) or Capilene 3 (extreme).
Mid layer: Patagonia R1 (mild conditions or during cold exertions) or Patagonia R2 (extreme temps). Both pieces breath very well.
Outer layer: Top: Patagonia Ascentionists jacket sofshell (on clear days or mild snow or rain) or Patagonia Super Pluma jacket (on torrential rain or extreme winds). Bottoms: Patagonia Alpine Guide pants or Patagonia Triolet pants on full on conditions.
Belay jacket: I also carry a Patagonia Nano Puff Hoodie (on normal conditions) or a Patagonia DAS Parka (on extreme conditions) to throw on top of everything I wear if I stop and need to keep the heat on.
To finish the layering system I have two different sets of gloves, socks and shoes for the two different conditions.
On normal winter conditions I wear a pair of mid or heavy weight merino wool socks (either Patagonia or Darn Tough) and on extreme cold I go with a Patagonia Capilene liner sock under an expedition weight Merino socks (heavy weight and super warm). I carry two pairs of either sock. The idea is that at night, when you go to sleep, you remove the socks you wore during the day, put on the clean pair and let the other pair dry inside the sleeping bag. Repeat the next night.
For shoes I also have different pairs for the two different conditions. On normal temps I wear a pair of Asolo full leather, lightly insulated Goretex mountain boots. They are not alpine boots but they are great for overall winter activities. They keep the feet dry and breath well. On full on conditions or on the mountain, I wear a pair of La Sportiva Nepal Evo GTX. After trying different mountain boots, I found these to be exceptionally warm, comfortable and durable.
Finally the gloves. This is an important piece. You want to remain dexterous but you also want to keep your hands warm. On normal conditions I usually don't wear gloves, however if it's a little too cold or wet I go with a mid level, GTX glove like the OR Gripper glove or the Black Diamond Pilot, and in full on conditions I wear a thin liner under a Black Diamond Enforcer glove.
For the head I usually wear a fleece lined beanie for normal conditions and a wind-resistant fleece beanie for extreme conditions.

Now, I left the gaiters out for a reason. I hate them. They make me sweat, they are an annoyance when you need to remove the boots quickly and they add weight to your kit. Yes, when you are out there every little gram or ounce count. What I do instead is to attach elastic shock cord to the bottom of my pants (Patagonia pants have loops for this purpose there!) and I use the pants own end as gaiters by putting the elastic cord under by boots.

The system now works as follow. I go with the least amount of layers. I know I get hot quickly so I rather be a little cold for a few minutes knowing that as soon as I am moving I will be fine. usually this is a base layer and the R1 or the base layer and the softshell jacket. If I stop and need to maintain the warmth, I put on my puff jacket on top of everything and I remove it when I begin to move again. I carry on my pack the mid-layer and the jackets.

If I get too sweaty and my base layer is too soaked for it to dry fast with the body heat, I have to change it. It is important in winter to be as dry as possible. A good base layer is designed to get the sweat out of your body and into the mid and outer layers, drying as you go with your body heat. However, sometimes the base layers get soaked too much. Change them. The same with socks and gloves. It is important to have your feet and hands as dry as possible, otherwise you can get frostbite even on milder temperatures.

You can see below a video by alpine climber Steve House, where he describes his layering system for the first alpine style ascent of the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat in September, 2005. It's an old video but the principles stand and they are similar to mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoACZH2N9gE

I hope this helps.​

Article Source: http://redteams.net/gear/2014/working-in-winter-conditions-gear
Layering Article: http://redteams.net/gear/2013/the-importance-of-layering
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Gaiters have a purpose and if misused your mileage will vary. Putting an elastic cord on the bottom of your pants won't work well when you are postholing through deep sloppy snow. As with most Goretex clothing, wearing it in the wrong conditions can make lots of folks sweat. Ever try wearing Goretex in a downpour in Thailand? Useless in that much humidity. A poncho is good enough. Does that make all Goretex jackets useless? Nope. Same with gaiters or other gear. Get out and use it in the conditions you will experience and find your own favorites that work for your body.
 

kojackJKU

Autism Family Travellers!
goretex is a god send in the cold damp crappy climate here. But totally see your point for humid climates. I have to get a pair of gaiters this year for digging us out of snowstorms.
 

Desert Dan

Explorer
Thanks for the info on cold weather gear. Layering and staying dry is the key for sure. Proper hydration and nutrition is important too.

Anybody from the military and or cold weather construction trades (pipeline, oil patch) have any advice?
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Military clothing is now built with the same materials and patterned after the same commercial gear that anyone can buy. High altitude mountaineering mitts or Gaiters by Outdoor Research. Insulated jackets by Wild things and Patagonia. Soft shell materials, thin silkweight underwear, fleece and all the other commercial techniques can be had in the style and pattern of your favorite branch of service:

USMC insulated "happy suit" jacket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-USMC-E...y-Suite-/321428203129?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Goretex gaiters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Res...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item4d15373d12

Mountaineering gloves
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Res...343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41830d16cf

Patagonia shirts
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Patagonia-A...336?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41831538d0

Arcteryx
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcteryx-LE...88?pt=US_CSA_MC_Outerwear&hash=item461b1b2f20
 

Sirocco

Explorer
For most people high end mountaineering equipment isn't really going to work for vehicle based travel/overlanding... Unless you are hiking/walking also.

In extreme winter conditions I much prefer a pair of Sorel Caribou's on my feet, Carinthia insulated trousers and a RAB Nutrino plus down jacket. The girlfriend uses a pair of Wild Things insulated trousers also.

These we all tested to -20c in Scandinavia last year.

G
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
For most people high end mountaineering equipment isn't really going to work for vehicle based travel/overlanding... Unless you are hiking/walking also.

In extreme winter conditions I much prefer a pair of Sorel Caribou's on my feet, Carinthia insulated trousers and a RAB Nutrino plus down jacket. The girlfriend uses a pair of Wild Things insulated trousers also.

These we all tested to -20c in Scandinavia last year.

G

This is a mystifying argument to make when the 3 of the 4 examples of alternatives are in fact expensive, technical and high end mountaineering gear:

RAB Neutrino $300
"When you need unmatched warmth and comfort in the coldest conditions, reach for the Rab Neutrino Plus Down Jacket. Ten ounces of super-warm 800-fill hydrophobic down are stuffed into this technical piece, which uses a box baffle construction for no cold spots....."

Carinthia trousers $224 (they also source military versions http://www.carinthiashop.com/en/scripts/zbozi.php?KID=68)

Sorel Caribou boots $160

Wild Things "all mountain", "expedition" pants $180 (quotes from their web site)


I guess if we can overland and never participate in "hiking/walking" we can wear almost any old thing as we run from our heated vehicle to our heated motel :elkgrin:
 
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Sirocco

Explorer
This is a mystifying argument to make when the 3 of the 4 examples of alternatives are in fact expensive, technical and high end mountaineering gear:

I guess if we can overland and never participate in "hiking/walking" we can wear almost any old thing as we run from our heated vehicle to our heated motel :elkgrin:

I wouldn't want to go mountaineering in Sorels, Carinthia trousers or the wild things trousers! True the Rab is an expedition grade down jacket but my point was the examples originally given were high end alpine style climbing pieces. Soft shells have their place but not really needed for overlanding in Winter. Our insulated trousers are so thick I don't think I could raise my knee to above waist level with them so no I wouldn't class these as mountaineering trousers at all.

We took high end clothing as we were camping 4/5 nights and I didn't want to get stranded with the wrong gear in the wrong place. Our tent temperatures ranged from -8c to -22c when we were camping. We didn't use a tent heater and the Land Rover has a stock heater so the clothing was used daily even whilst in the cab.

As nobody here ever talks numbers lets just sort some of these out:

Sorels we bought 2nd hand at 30GBP/pair
Jackets were 100GBP/ea on sale (in summer)
Carinthia trousers I got for 40GBP, only worn once
Wild Things Trousers 35GBP, only worn once

I also got a pair of Wild Things insulated booties sent over from the states and these came in very handy. winter clothing does not need to be expensive if you can get it at the right time.

Our sleeping bags rated to -20c comfort limit were probably the biggest outlay in terms of $$$ but that is going off topic.

G
 

libarata

Expedition Leader
Check out www.wickers.com

They usually have a 20% off sale once a month or so. I am not a fan of the silk weight stuff, but everything after that I have proven to myself with use in Northern Wisconsin. I usually tie the expedition weight stuff, with Wigwam socks, whatever waterproof-leather boots I have, synthetic pants with gaiters, a thick polyester hoody, and a jacket of some sort. Did well enough for me XC skiing in -40* weather.

FYI, cotton kills.
 

keezer37

Explorer
I've used cheap gaiters with a drawstring up top. I'm not familiar with any others. They're cheap and they serve the purpose. Great for venturing out into the meadows in winter. I would never buy anything the least bit costly here. They are the first thing to damage.

I'll be wearing merino wool for the remainder of my days. This stuff is great and it feels so good. I've worn light weight from the mid 20's as a baselayer in the winter all the way up in to the low 60's for biking in the spring. I love it's temperature regulating ability, that's what I noticed the most. To be able to keep it on over a significant temp range is very convenient. I've had these low dollar Minus 33 for two seasons now. As a baselayer, they've held up okay. Just okay, but considering I'll get at least another winter out of them and they are half the price of Filson's, they're worth it. Note: They suffered two years of toploader laundromat washers. Frontloaders are much more gentle.
Chocolate Fish has got some good learning about merino.

Late this winter I bought some Devold socks and a marine sweater. I haven't had the opportunity wear them as intended yet. I can say the socks are very thick. Thick to the point that they may cramp your shoe as they are not just thick but dense.
 

libarata

Expedition Leader
"may cramp your shoe as they are not just thick but dense. " gata buy some larger, wider shoes for winter use. Constrict your feet, and you could lose them in actual freezing situations. Bloodflow is very important.
 

AxleIke

Adventurer
I just spent some time on the Greenland Ice cap and am headed to Taylor Glacier, Antarctica this winter.

While most of the stuff I carry doesn't equate well to over landing (these are giant and heavy: NF McMurdo jacket, Sorrel Glacier boots, Marmott -40 bag, etc...) there are two things I was very impressed with:

Carhartt insulated bibs are AWESOME. The normal 8000 m stuff that folks get up there tends to get torn open easily. While these pants require layering underneath, they are easy to get in and out of, are EXCEPTIONALLY tough, and I was warm with them in -70 wind chill on a -35C day.

If you wear glasses, (I do) you know all about fogging up. For face protection, I have tried fleece and merino balaclavas, but to be honest, neoprene snowmobile masks work the best, the kind with the vent holes. I initially shied away from these because I thought the holes would cause freezing, but they work very well, and my face stayed warm enough, and i was able to breathe.

The last thing I can't stress enough for cold weather is high-cal diet. Eat a lot and eat often. I stay warm very easily when my body is fueled properly. Extreme cold conditions are not good for dieters. Plan ahead and make sure to eat well.
 

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