Purchased an Expedition G Wagen

McBride

Adventurer
Roof mount spares quandry!!!

Okay Gentlemen, now I am in a quandary!

I weighed my spare tires and they are 75lbs each. From the pics many of you have commented that it might be a good idea to relocate them.

Additionally, the roof edge rub rails weigh about 35 lbs combined.

Furthermore, I'd like to add a lightweight awning.

My dilemma is that they are pretty convenient where they are. Easy for me to access and out of the way (big importance in day to day use). In contrast I do understand the importance of keeping the weight low.

I've looked at the space at the rear of the camper where a few of you suggested mounting them and there is a problem; in order to have them clear the tail lights (they won't fit between), with both tires touching each other, the center of the rims are well into the rear window. As such, using a hub type mount wouldn't be an option. I suppose I could do a cradle type mount. Another problem I have with this location is that it would block my rear view, which is quite good and I use frequently while driving. I suppose I could mount a rear view camera but that is more electrical add-ons which I would like to keep to a minimum. In this location they are still pretty high up and so would the small gain of lower CG be worth it.

I'm not sure what to do.

Capo had the very creative suggestion of making covers and keeping them inside the truck, but I hate the idea of climbing over them every time I access back while on the road.

To rationalize, a great effort was made by the builders (and myself) to keep weight very low. No upper cabinets, aluminum skin, spare fuel is at or below the frame, water is very low, all tools, propane and spare batteries are just at or just above the top plane of the frame, I pack very minimalist, light and low and I don't carry any frivolous gear... okay, maybe the 36" crowbar but it is packed very low (I travel by myself and in some instances extra leverage could be critical - that is what I told myself when I loaded it). Additionally, the suspension of the vehicle has been adapted to handle additional weight and measures have been taken to control side to side motion (using heavy duty parts designed exclusively for G Wagens). While driving, it doesn't feel top heavy at all. I know because I've traveled top heavy and know what it is like. This camper almost feels like a normal car.

Perhaps I just keep in mind that I am driving a heavier than stock expedition vehicle that might be easier to roll.

If I need to cross a steep side slope that makes me nervous I can always pull the tires, put them inside, pass it and then put them back up when I get to camp.

I just read Scott Brady's article on the top 10 not to do things and I'm in violation!

Any further insights?

I think I need to test how far this thing can actually go over before it rolls; with good data I can determine if this is a real issue for me.

How does one get a vehicle to its tipping point and back down safely?

Thanks.

William
 
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McBride

Adventurer
Here are some pics for visual reference.

I let the trout go - extra weight. Caught in mid December on the Rio Penasco in SE New Mexico.

There is one pic from when I was passing thru White Sands Missile Range.

The one showing the rear of the truck is when I was leaving the Black Range (huge herds of elk) and about to enter the Plains of San Augustine (huge herds of pronghorn antelope).
 

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mk216v

Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Thanks Tappet. While flushing the brake fluid I pulled all the tires and they are surprisingly light. I'll have to weigh one and see. My guess is 50lbs but I'll get a real number.

I love the looks of the military Hutchinson Beadlocks but I have seen posts where people say they weigh over 100 pounds. That is too much for me.

My WA-1207 Hutchinson's (16x7.5" cast) beadlocks w/ 285/75/16 BFG AT weigh 104lbs each.
 

mk216v

Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Here are a few details on how the vehicle is set up for those who are curious.

- Frame, suspension and differentials are from a 1981 460; front, center and rear locking differentials. Front and rear are hydraulic actuated.
- Engine, tranny, electronics and dash are 461.

Dash is W461, but you mention your G has 3 locking diffs?? W460's had only front and rear locking diffs. Are there 2 "plungers" to the right of the driver seat, aft of the e-brake handle?
I'm just curious to know what compilation of parts your amazing camperwagen has.
Is the chassis/frame a W460 or W461 number?
 

mk216v

Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Hi Joaquin,

As I understand it, Dave Holland sold it to a doctor in Alabama. He had the fuel pump problem, got discouraged and sold it to a dealership. I bought it from them. They installed a new pump and the problem was solved.

I spoke to the Europa mechanic who told the Doctor that it was a bad fuel pump. It was a strange gremlin. The engine wouldn't start without the use of ether. Once it was going it ran fine.

Wow, lucky you William!! I had drooled over it on Europa forever, then ebay, but the gremlins scared me away. So very happy to hear it was straightforward to get it back on the road. Odd that the doctor didn't just have the pump replaced in the first place.
 

scramfan01

Adventurer
What an incredible vehicle!

Good for you to have scored such an incredible vehicle, and to use it as it was intended. I've enjoyed looking at your pics and dreaming of a trip out there. I'am also glad to see Joaquin Suave has found this thread. He is an invaluable source. I look forward to more of your postings.
 

Capo

Happy Camper
Beautiful solemn photographs of your G in the wild, William!

With regards to your thoughts on top heavy equipment, perhaps you should try out all your ideas and see how you like it. However, chances are that after a few voyages, you will:

Take the spare wheels down from the roof.
Take the exposed upper lights off and install a LED substitute down by the grill.
Take the steel roof railing off and replace it with smooth snag free carbon fibre protection (or aluminium) around the edges and corners.

If you end up doing all of the above mod eliminations, you owe me a beer!:)
 

Capo

Happy Camper
How does one get a vehicle to its tipping point and back down safely?

Thanks.

William

This is just an idea:

1. Lock all four wheels by securely jamming the brake pedal. For good measure, put it in first in low gear and apply hand brake as well.

2. Attach a perpendicular safety line hooked up to various slings or ropes tied on the roof rail, equally spread out to distribute the load. This is to hold the vehicle as it just flips past the point of self righting.

3. Lift the car on one side with two bottle jacks until the wheels are in the air then put a rolling workshop jack under each wheel and continue to lift evenly.

4. As you start reaching the flipping point, make sure the slack is almost out of the safety line but not fully.

5. Lift and carefully give slack on the safety line (and refasten) until the vehicle just passes the flipping point. Note that there will be insignificant strain on the roof rail as the vehicle is close to equilibrium.

6. Lower the jacks just very little and pull on the safety line to flip the vehicle back to the self righting side of the flipping point.

7. Lower the vehicle to the bottle jacks.

8. Slide out the roller jacks and lower the vehicle to the ground with the bottle jacks.

Important: Make sure the roller jacks are on an even and level surface where they can roll inwards as you lift the vehicle and outwards as you lower it. Otherwise the tires can slide of the jacks.
 
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chris505

Observer
William,

Your camper floor is made up of a 'ladder frame' made from 1x3 steel rectangular tube, 120 or 180 wall, spaced ~10" apart and running left to right. I cant speculate on insulation as the last time I saw the truck in person the camper box had no skins or floor panels.

Relocating your spare tires may be more work than its worth, the camper body itself is made out of 120 wall 1x1 square steel tubing so hanging anything heavy off that should be out of the question.

Im sure some kind of cantilevered arm (hinged?) can be devised to attach to the frame near the winch and extend upward at 45 degree angle (following contour of rear overhang) far enough to mount a tire or two without dragging anything offroad. This arm would be very heavy though and will most likely deform into the thin camper body anyway if the rear of the G comes down hard on anything.

That awkward rear overhang always bothered me, Id like to see some trail armor back there but I have to remember not everybody takes their Gs through "extremely difficult" trails.
 

McBride

Adventurer
Beautiful solemn photographs of your G in the wild, William!

With regards to your thoughts on top heavy equipment, perhaps you should try out all your ideas and see how you like it. However, chances are that after a few voyages, you will:

Take the spare wheels down from the roof.
Take the exposed upper lights off and install a LED substitute down by the grill.
Take the steel roof railing off and replace it with smooth snag free carbon fibre protection (or aluminium) around the edges and corners.

If you end up doing all of the above mod eliminations, you owe me a beer!:)

Capo,

Deal. We'll have to meet in Magadan. That seems to be a good halfway point. Although your half would be much more fun! You could sail me back to Alaska in your Viking boat! Now that would be and adventure. Overland, Oversea.

William
 

McBride

Adventurer
This is just an idea:

1. Lock all four wheels by securely jamming the brake pedal. For good measure, put it in first in low gear and apply hand brake as well.

2. Attach a perpendicular safety line hooked up to various slings or ropes tied on the roof rail, equally spread out to distribute the load. This is to hold the vehicle as it just flips past the point of self righting.

3. Lift the car on one side with two bottle jacks until the wheels are in the air then put a rolling workshop jack under each wheel and continue to lift evenly.

4. As you start reaching the flipping point, make sure the slack is almost out of the safety line but not fully.

5. Lift and carefully give slack on the safety line (and refasten) until the vehicle just passes the flipping point. Note that there will be insignificant strain on the roof rail as the vehicle is close to equilibrium.

6. Lower the jacks just very little and pull on the safety line to flip the vehicle back to the self righting side of the flipping point.

7. Lower the vehicle to the bottle jacks.

8. Slide out the roller jacks and lower the vehicle to the ground with the bottle jacks.

Important: Make sure the roller jacks are on an even and level surface where they can roll inwards as you lift the vehicle and outwards as you lower it. Otherwise the tires can slide of the jacks.

Thanks. I'm going to do it. Don't worry, I'll have plenty of rigging and fail safes. I don't like speculation; I need data in order to determine what this vehicle can handle.
 

spallet

New member
you can swap the injection pump of your 602 and use the one of a 662 engine( korando) ..is the same engine but all mechanical....i have these set up in my w460 300gd.
 

McBride

Adventurer
William,

Your camper floor is made up of a 'ladder frame' made from 1x3 steel rectangular tube, 120 or 180 wall, spaced ~10" apart and running left to right. I cant speculate on insulation as the last time I saw the truck in person the camper box had no skins or floor panels.

Relocating your spare tires may be more work than its worth, the camper body itself is made out of 120 wall 1x1 square steel tubing so hanging anything heavy off that should be out of the question.

Im sure some kind of cantilevered arm (hinged?) can be devised to attach to the frame near the winch and extend upward at 45 degree angle (following contour of rear overhang) far enough to mount a tire or two without dragging anything offroad. This arm would be very heavy though and will most likely deform into the thin camper body anyway if the rear of the G comes down hard on anything.

That awkward rear overhang always bothered me, Id like to see some trail armor back there but I have to remember not everybody takes their Gs through "extremely difficult" trails.

Thanks!

Good stuff to know.

Do the 1x3 tubes lay flat or are they on edge?

I agree on the rear. Wait til you see what I am going to do back there. With all of the stuff on my list I will work on that area in early March.

I've thought of the cantilever arm myself but that makes the vehicle quite a bit longer and adds a lot of the weight to the rear. As it is it is easy to maneuver in tight spots and feels very nicely balanced. I don't want to mess that up.

I'm going to find the actual tipping point of the vehicle so I can determine how much of a detriment the tires up top are. I'll do the test with and without the spare tires on top and see how it compares to stock.

I'm going to be pretty realistic with the use of this vehicle. It is a small, moderately heavy camper built on a very capable chassis. I am not going to take it rock crawling just for fun, but I will use its capability as it is needed and stay within its limits (which I am still learning).

An example - last year I took a spur of moment trip with some guests of the ranch on an 800 mile, 3 night out backcountry adventure thru the Gila. We were in a 2013 stock Toyota Landcruiser with about 1500 miles on it. We were at a point where we were halfway between gas stations with a half a tank of gas. We were about 75 miles into a dirt road with about 50 miles to go to the next tarmac when we came upon a canyon which had recently flash flooded and washed out about 300' of road in the canyon bottom. It was a pretty serious boulder field and some of them were bigger than the tires. I assessed it and determined it was within the capabilities of the vehicle and drove thru the boulder field, nice and easy. We made it fine and the guests were pumped.

That was a turning point for me.

I loved the drive, but I felt overly exposed in the stock LandCruiser and didn't like the feeling. Limited fuel, one spare, no extraction equipment. 3 months later I bought the G Wagen. It could have easily crawled thru the boulder field and mud, has a much greater range and is well equipped for extraction. If the section had been deemed impassable, I would have easily had enough fuel to take another route and continue the adventure rather than back track for gas.

Another example - I work almost every day for 9 months out of the year and only take a few much needed adventures during that time. The remaining 3 months (late winter) I work what could be considered to be a normal schedule, but I have more flexibility with my time. As such, I head into the woods a lot in the winter. A few weeks ago I was doing 4 days of recon looking for a dirt road route to Flagstaff for this May's Expo. I first tried going north thru Chaco Canyon and then west thru Navaho land but found that there was too much pavement. I headed south and found more plentiful dirt. Having identified the New Mexico part of the route, I turned east and headed on dirt into the Gila high country where some of the shaded sections of road had a foot of snow accumulation . I found a remote campsite down some old deeply rutted, rocky logging/hunting road and spent the night. Woke up to about 6" of new snow. I made it out fine but spent quite a while carefully navigating down steep, narrow canyons with 18" of snow on the road. The G wagen did it handily (I'm starting to love this truck).

I guess my point is that while I'm not going to seek out the overly extreme conditions for sport, some times they find you and one feels less exposed and has more options if reasonably well prepared (being in a comfy, capable G Wagen camper with lots of food and vodka).

That is what I'm loving about this overland vehicle thing.

Bring your camping gear when you come out. I'd love to go see some of the mining roads you mentioned, if you think my camper will make it.

William





So what sort of fabrication/modification services do you do? I'd love to see some pics.
 
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McBride

Adventurer
Here is a picture of Maya's engine bay. One lower left of the picture you will see the added fuel filter/ h20 trap. you will also see stock fuel filter is like yours because I am waiting until I until the next fuel filter change until I swap the whole assembly to the banjo plumbed unit.

View attachment 206386



My/ our motor is stock with a turbo. What I was trying to say is that i will be building a hybrid turbo to be able take advantage of my potental of pumping A LOT more fuel into the motor with the mechanical pump. In the above picture you can see the radiator/ innercooler combo.

View attachment 206387

Joaquin,

Good picks. The engine bay is so simple, so clean. No litany of modules or multitude of 1" wiring harnesses plastered all over the fire wall and fenders. Nice work.

Where did you get your motor?

Your rig is awesome! You have it set up perfectly. Great aesthetic. Minimalist. Way to go.
 

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