Long Range Emergency Communications Set

[DaveInDenver]

Not supposed to mod, but ham's are constantly modifying their gear. Part of the fun of amateur radio is seeing how much you can get out of your gear.

It's illegal to use non-type approved gear on GMRS, which ham gear doesn't have. It would be fine to make a GMRS radio work on the ham bands, just not the other way. It's technically not even legal to use Part 90 commercial gear on GMRS. None of this is to say it doesn't happen, just that the services, GMRS and ham, get enough pirates and illegal operators that we don't need to be advocating additional ignorance of the rules. GMRS in particular about 3 years ago faced a serious threat to losing a lot of privileges, reduction to 5W, loss of repeaters, etc. because so many people use it without a license. The FCC backed off but they don't want to create another CB mess, particularly with highly desirable spectrum.

 

[VegasUnderworld]

Abuse isn't being advocated. Safety is. If someone has an "illegal" form of communications that could potentially save their life or another, bless them for being prepared.

 

[RobRed]

I'm reading through this thread (nice setup VU, BTW), and it never ceases to amaze the animosity there is here toward CB radios (to the point one would actually lower himself to refusing to participate in this great hobby we call 4-wheeling simply because someone's CB setup doesn't work well :snorkel: ). People only need to quit buying the cheapest crappy radios with muffled microphones and tiny little short antennas, and CB units would be FAR more effective than any FRS, and most likely the Baofeng too (used simplex anyway). Instead we have elitist comments that don't do anything to help people better communicate with each other.

Nice - you did call me elitist (as i suggested call me what you will) but that doesn't mitigate something you pointed out - The someones CB not working well has been the standard in many groups I've run with in the past and it makes it a drag for others. I'm elitist because I want the folks I'm traveling with to have a minimum level of equipment. I'm not refusing to participate in the hobby but does it make me elitist because I want to travel with prepared, thoughtful people? I consider communication a vital safety component.

You're right about folks buying and deploying "...cheapest crappy radios with muffled microphones and tiny little short antennas...". A proper CB radio setup will rival a HAM radio for cost. My observation has been cheapest, fastest which propagates the bad rap for CB.

Back on topic - about emergency communications, as I pointed out (and others) I think everyone would benefit from tiered communications. In my opinion a CB radio is about as low on the priority totem as you can get. The old HAM excuse of it's too expensive and hard has been flushed out the drain for some time.

 

[VegasUnderworld]

I wish I had enough money to be an elitist.

 

[uli2000]

Many do? CB operates in 26-27 MHz. None of the tri-bands go that low. Which ham radios work on CB frequencies? I'd be interested in one.

Technically, none of them will transmit on CB (without modification) but most HF radios with general receive coverage can receive CB. Depending on the radio, usually the removal of a jumper or some software modification is all it needs to open up transmit on 11 meters (and other frequencies). Radio's such as Yaesu's 857d and 817nd (a qrp, or low power radio for portable use), Icom's IC-706 series, IC-7000, and IC-7100, and Kenwood's TS-480 series radios are built with mobile installations in mind. The Yaesus and Icom radios also cover 2m and 70cm as well. Mobile HF radios like these tend to run ~$650+ used or ~$1000 new, not including HF antenna options that can sometimes be more than the radios themselves. K0BG.com is probably the best website for mobile operation that I'm aware of. If you are interested in HF, I suggest checking his site out.

 

[RobRed]

hahaha

I wish I had enough money to be an elitist.

 

[madmax718]

You can't legally modify a ham radio for GMRS. If the radio is type approved for Part 95 then you can use it for GMRS and ham, but ham radios don't carry the correct FCC blessing to be used there legally.

Some of the earlier baofengs I think had a part 95 approval code on them. I could be wrong.

 

[craig333]

My CB radio is a Cobra 75 WST, all in the microphone cb. Very compact. No bulky unit to try and find a spot for. Along with a mag mount antenna it does okay. Not the best CB setup by far but since I'm mostly just listening it does fine for a trail ride.

I may get one of those baofengs. If I'm ever about to go over a cliff I won't be too concerned that my spotter isn't licensed.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Some of the earlier baofengs I think had a part 95 approval code on them. I could be wrong.

I think you're right and they would be fine to use.

 

[Crom]

General comments / didn't read the whole thread

MURS is great. The advantage is that any person can use it for personal or business. Not too well known, but not a secret either, is that Walmart uses MURS channels inside all their stores (mostly Ch 4+5). The reason MURS is not widely adopted by average people is because the market has not made available affordable radios. MURS radios are in fact rare and expensive. This is especially true when you compare MURS to the ubiquitous GMRS / FRS bubble pack radios which are sold everywhere.

I say use MURS whenever you have to communicate to a non-ham. The Baofengs work great for that. Many people are concerned about device type certification. Let me tell you... I've personally conducted many hours of legal research examining many NOV's (Notice of Violations) and field actions, going back about 5 years (maybe more, can't remember). And the facts are the FCC only enforces type certification with manufacturers--not individuals. But don't take my word for it, do your own legal research using the enforcement bureau's handy website here. You can read very entertaining stories.

The 2010 FCC proposed rule making for rewriting part 95 is still pending... GMRS will be substantially changed if the rule is codified. Depending on where you live GMRS may already be out of control. All I ever here on GMRS is Spanish speaking persons and none of them ever ID.

 

[SARguru]

Crom - did you look to see if FCC has fine any hams using ham radio on commercial freq?

How many ham out there have modified gear and transmit off ham bands.. Some hams are dead against it claiming the FCC type violation yet i have never heard anyone getting fined

Nic

 

[Crom]

Crom - did you look to see if FCC has fine any hams using ham radio on commercial freq?

How many ham out there have modified gear and transmit off ham bands.. Some hams are dead against it claiming the FCC type violation yet i have never heard anyone getting fined

Nic

Yes I looked. And no it has not happened and I suspect it never will. The type certification enforcement is only for manufactures as far as I can tell. For example, Silicondust got in trouble because they brought to market a device (a digital TV Tuner) but when they packaged it they forgot to include a warning label about part 15 FCC compliance. The FCC took exception to that and engaged them.

What does happen to individual hams (and really all persons) is that they break more serious rules and that's what the FCC goes after. Like this Amateur Extra who pirated a military UHF Sat. frequency for several months. Bureau Enforcement action here, news article here.

The FCC really does care about interference. Like a hotel in Florida who installed a TV distribution system which emitted spurious emissions in the aviation spectrum. Or dumb CB radio operators who use imported amps that cause interference to amateurs or even government HF operations. My favorite story is a guy who installed a GPS signal jammer in his work truck and then parked next to an airport causing the airport interference problems with their ground based GPS augment system (GBAS).

Most of the actions against hams that I've seen were fools who probably got drunk, got on some repeater and repeatedly harassed people. It all gets documented by official (volunteer (certified)) observer and then the FCC sends them a letter telling them to stop or else!

One thing that seemed to happen quite a bit is that the FCC seemed to like to go after businesses that used GMRS. It is illegal for businesses who are qualified for land mobile radio licenses to use GMRS. I think they saw it as a quick revenue generator. There were a number of those as I recall. One thing that I could not find and I was searching for hard, was that there was no enforcement against individuals who used GMRS wihtout a license. Not one single violation that I could find.

I tried to find the link for the violations for amateurs, but the FCC website may have moved some things around since last year. Here is a link to the current enforcement actions, look for individuals names and (NAL) for good stories.

 

[VegasUnderworld]

Thanks for the great info, Crom. Yeah, I definitely will not be renewing my GMRS license. What a waste of money that turned out to be.

 

[RobRed]

I've spent a bit of time looking into the off cert frequencies fines and have not found one single credible incident.... It's always "i've heard..." or "...because your radio isn't part blah certified you'll ruin the spectrum and the FCC will find you". But as Crom noted The FCC is about interference not "did you use a Baofeng to transmit on GMRS". Is it against the rules? Sure, but completely impractical to find, identify and prosecute a fine.

I have modded HAM gear. I can transmit on frequencies I'm not licensed or the equipment is type approved for. Does that mean I should? Of course not. But in certain situations I might... obviously an emergency but even in non-emergency I could be tempted to talk to a GMRS station as long as I'm not interfering with others.

But then again I'm an elitist

 

[4x4junkie]

I consider communication a vital safety component.

So do I.

I guess the difference between you and I is, I will offer to break out an SWR meter and a volt-ohm meter which I keep in my rig if I observe someone having difficulty with their radio set (see if the person's antenna is tuned and/or grounded properly, see if the unit has sufficient 12V power getting to it, make an attempt to at least get them up & talking to the rest of the group, even suggest equipment upgrades if it is necessary).

It's a shame there are knowledgeable folk among us who aren't willing to help someone who isn't as technically-inclined, it really would help to reduce the number of times each and every one of us has to listen to someone's sub-par signal when we're out on the trails (all while avoiding the hassle of trying to get everyone in a group to sign up for radio licenses).

Anyway, enough thread derailment over this CB crap...

The reason MURS is not widely adopted by average people is because the market has not made available affordable radios. MURS radios are in fact rare and expensive. This is especially true when you compare MURS to the ubiquitous GMRS / FRS bubble pack radios which are sold everywhere.

I don't think they're that expensive... mid-high double digits (just high enough to make those that don't know anything about them consider a pair of cheaper [more limited] FRS units in a bubble pack instead).
I agree, the Baofeng units would be perfect for it also (and you don't even need to cut diodes, resisters, traces, etc. off the CPU board before it'll work on it either. Just be sure to have it set to low or mid power and set ch 1, 2, & 3 as "narrow" mode so you're legal as far as your signal output goes).

As for Wal-Mart, I think they (along with others like Target and Costco) were using those channels long before the MURS band was created (previously CH 4 & 5 were among the sequence of colored "Dot" itinerant business channels, Blue & Green to be specific). Such businesses operate under a grandfathered license, which means MURS operators legally must not to interfere with them. Fortunately when you're out in the boonies, chances are good there shouldn't be any worries about interfering with Wal-Mart lol.