Up to date mapping program.

Scoutn79

Adventurer
Right now I use Nat Geo TOPO (ver. 4.5.0)software on a laptop and Garmin 60CSX for real time mapping. It seems all Nat Geo electronic mapping was discontinued in 2012.
One of the things I dislike about the Nat Geo TOPO series is that it is as much as 30 years out of date. I plan trips only to find that the road of choice is so over grown that you can't tell that a road ever existed or that the route I want now dead ends at wilderness areas.
I am looking for a new program, as detailed as possible, and need them for Colorado and Utah.
What do you like and dislike about your software of choice?

Any suggestions out there.

Darrell
 
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deserteagle56

Adventurer
They are ALL out of date.

I get out pretty much every weekend for short trips and several times a year for extended explorations. My current setup is a Garmin Montana 600 using the GPSFileDepot maps because I find them to be more up-to-date than any others. I carry the Benchmark Map Atlases and also USGS topo maps and they are just as bad.

Back in 1994, 20 years ago, I worked at the Twin Creeks Mine which is about 50 miles northeast of Winnemucca, Nevada. It is still there and is a huge operation - at least 10 miles from one end to the other. Yet it does not appear on any of the mapping programs or the latest topo maps, which still show the old roads (now closed, of course) still running through the area. Here's a classic one for you - a screen shot of the Chimney Creek Reservoir, built in 1974. The Garmin 24k West maps show the roads still running through the area...good luck on getting through the reservoir!



To their credit, the GPSFileDepot maps do not show roads going through the reservoir.

To sum up, I don't think there are any mapping programs that are up to date. I too run into Wilderness area signs and closed roads, roads that were open just a few years ago. It seems Congress is creating wilderness areas at a dizzying pace - one of the few things they seem to get done, and the mapping programs can't keep up with them. I wish there were a way I could get Google Earth to scroll along as I explore, that would be as up-to-date as it gets. But it still wouldn't tell you if a road was closed.
 

quickfarms

Adventurer
Check the satellite photos on google before going into an unknown area.

The problem us that the topo maps are based on the old quad sheets which have not been updated in decades.

The GPS is fair but the base maps are ancient. And they all use the same base maps.

Your best bet is to get satellite internet so you can view google images as you go.
 

Scoutn79

Adventurer
Satellite internet isn't in the budget so streaming Google Earth is out. I do use Google Earth extensively during pre-trip planning tho.
Nat Geo's Trails Illustrated maps (an electronic copy of the paper version) were pretty darn accurate, unfortunately they are not supported on a Windows 7 64 bit system and were very limited in coverage. I have all of the National Parks and loved them but once I updated laptops I couldn't use them any more.

Can anyone offer up the good and bad about the DeLorme and Garmin real time mapping used on a laptop?

Any more ideas out there?

Darrell
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Old maps are especially useful because they show old roads, old mines, old structures, mineral prospects, railroads and so on that still exist but the mapmakers decided to leave out. I go out looking for historical and interesting locations and maps that have been whitewashed are not so useful. Even if a road is blocked to vehicular travel it can still be hiked.
 

1911

Expedition Leader
The problem us that the topo maps are based on the old quad sheets which have not been updated in decades.

Plus, when they have been updated, it's just done with a quick scan of whatever old aerial or satellite photos were available. My own pet peeve is trails shown on the topo which turn out to be just some lighter-colored vaguely continuous streaks on the aerial photo which are clearly not trails when you are on the ground.
 

Scoutn79

Adventurer
I understand I am not going to get absolutely current info on any of the mapping software maps. I am looking for something currently supported that will replace the Nat Geo software I currently am using and be comparable to them. I also would rather not be on the hook for $400 per state.

Darrell
 

vicali

Adventurer
Would you care to imaging the price of a map if each trail was field checked?
There is a trade-off being made by what the data source, and updating/keeping current is a whole other ball of wax.

National data is free but not that accurate, local datasets are expensive and accurate but have a small extent.
You will probably also find that most remote satellite imagery is low-res and out of date as well.

I'm a GIS'er, I do with this all day long..

Try ArcGIS online, at least you will have current base and ortho coverage, and if you get lucky you might find a map that someone has already made in your area.
 

theksmith

Explorer
Not that expensive. Cool.

My beloved Garmin GPS-276C has died and I am looking at my options as Garmin makes no modern equivilent of the 276 series

Garmin Montana is as close as they come, it's an excellent unit but i realize not quite the same.
 

robgendreau

Explorer
Some old topos have been updated; the USFS topos have recent route information and other new details, and some show corrections in terrain as well. The problem is that with so many entities doing mapping, for various purposes, hunting down the most accurate map for your use is a chore. But the good news is that there are so many sources online. An example would be the motor vehicle use maps US fed agencies have done, but the info on those is not necessarily reflected in the agencies visitor maps, in the case of the USFS for example. So you may need both. A private entity like Harrisons might have accurate info for hiking, but maybe not the nearby roads. Benchmark seems to do a decent job of field checking, but a paper version can only be semi-up-to-date. Non-profit groups like CTUC put out some very good maps, but although they might be good for your vehicle they might not be so good for climbing once you get there. One map source is no longer enough. So no wonder Nat Geo is bowing out, and I suspect Garmin and other dedicated units that charge such high fees are gonna be blasted out of existence by anyone with a web browser who can access this stuff.

IMHO smartphones and tablets are the way to go. Apps like Gaia (and they seem to make Benchmark's and others), Motion X, Trimble, etc all allow you to use multiple map sources. So do websites like caltopo.com. And importantly, you can layer maps. So info you need from multiple sources can easily be combined. And boy, are they cheap. I cannot fathom how someone selling state wide topos for lots of money can compete with a smart phone with a $10 nav app these days. Amazing. And the features are awesome; on caltopo, for example, you can use a shader to show the view scape, so when planning a campsite you can tell if you'll be in shade, or be able to see that nearby peak. And use topos as far back as 1900. All free.

Rob
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Some old topos have been updated; the USFS topos have recent route information and other new details, and some show corrections in terrain as well. The problem is that with so many entities doing mapping, for various purposes, hunting down the most accurate map for your use is a chore. But the good news is that there are so many sources online. An example would be the motor vehicle use maps US fed agencies have done, but the info on those is not necessarily reflected in the agencies visitor maps, in the case of the USFS for example. So you may need both. A private entity like Harrisons might have accurate info for hiking, but maybe not the nearby roads. Benchmark seems to do a decent job of field checking, but a paper version can only be semi-up-to-date. Non-profit groups like CTUC put out some very good maps, but although they might be good for your vehicle they might not be so good for climbing once you get there. One map source is no longer enough. So no wonder Nat Geo is bowing out, and I suspect Garmin and other dedicated units that charge such high fees are gonna be blasted out of existence by anyone with a web browser who can access this stuff.

IMHO smartphones and tablets are the way to go. Apps like Gaia (and they seem to make Benchmark's and others), Motion X, Trimble, etc all allow you to use multiple map sources. So do websites like caltopo.com. And importantly, you can layer maps. So info you need from multiple sources can easily be combined. And boy, are they cheap. I cannot fathom how someone selling state wide topos for lots of money can compete with a smart phone with a $10 nav app these days. Amazing. And the features are awesome; on caltopo, for example, you can use a shader to show the view scape, so when planning a campsite you can tell if you'll be in shade, or be able to see that nearby peak. And use topos as far back as 1900. All free.

Rob


I agree that tablets will be a great choice for vehicular use. They have large hi-res screens that make viewing so much easier. Someone will still have to be tech savvy to figure out memory, GPS interfacing and other requirements as well as collect maps and meld them into the desired map sets. I will go to the suggested sites & vendors to see how they lay down tracks and way points in a manner similar to the purpose built GPS units.
 

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