Mapper's gen 2.5

[mapper]

No immediate plans to sell off the Astro. I will say that the Montero seems, so, well...how do I say this...tiny...compared to the Astro.

Strover, you'll appreciate this. My buddy from CA who is a mountaineering guide, borrowed my Astro last week and took it to "a little place called" Aspen! for some testing in preparation of getting his international guiding certification. They hit a bunch of back country, un plowed trailheads for some of the exams. He owns a Tacoma himself but for various reasons didn't have it available. The other folks he was working with there also owned Tacomas. To the surprise of my buddy and the other Tacoma owners, the Astro went everywhere those Tacomas did. They were more or less joking and betting on how quickly they would need to pull out the tow straps, but wound up never needing them.

Anyway, this is a Mitsu forum. Unfortunately, no news on the Montero front. I dropped it off with the valve guy last week to have the top end rebuilt. I told him to take his time and that's what he seems to be doing. Will check in on it this week. I went to the Junkyard today looking for a few little things and maybe some wheels. Turns out they sell off all the wheels to rebuilders. JY only had 2 monteros so I came away empty handed...well except for a few Astro parts :snorkel:

More or less resigned myself to getting the BFG TAKOs in 33x10.5, but still kicking around the idea of going with a 31x10.5 in the Cooper AT3s. Especially because I have no plan to regear. That's the tire, smaller size, I'm running on aforementioned Astro and I've been very happy with it. Does amazing in the snow for an "all season" AT tire. Reasonably priced too.

 

[Clem]

What size Cooper AT3 are you running on the Astro? (My family had one in the 80's and all my Dad's vehicles since have not measured up in his eyes).

Clem

 

[mapper]

What size Cooper AT3 are you running on the Astro? (My family had one in the 80's and all my Dad's vehicles since have not measured up in his eyes).

Clem

Your Dad is not alone, many feel similarly. I've been wanting to move away from my van for years. I bought it solely for my last cross country move but they really grow on you. I don't use it daily, too much gas, but I love knowing it is available.

235 70 16, other folks (like Stroverlander above) run bigger but I think this size if sort of "perfect" compromise. At first I wished I went bigger but have come to appreciate good highway manners, decent mountain power and little rubbing. I have 2" lift shackles, with helper springs, in the rear and a slight torsion bar crank. I rub a tiny bit in the front and could eliminate with some trimming but I'm letting the tires slowly do the work. When the rear axle gets overly articulated on my tired leafs (215k) the tires will sometime rub the inside of the wheel well.

I have a 2003 model and though the basic van has been around since early 80s the newer models have been updated nicely. My favorite thing about the van is size, 140 cubic feet behind front seats but a mid-sized SUV wheelbase and shorty nose. My main complaint(s) is no low range (which can be rectified). I'm always worried about going certain places and not having the power I need, but damn that van has more grunt than you might expect. Also that I only get about 15 mpg highway but I drive mountain roads and I go fast (cruise at 75+) my van is old, front hub bearings could use replacing and I run a Yakima roof rack. I'm actually planning to tame down my torsion crank to see if I can get some mileage back. It's a beast of a machine, the Vortec 4.3 has ample power and it doesn't need to be babied. Everyone I know first laughs at it, then drives it and comes away saying..."man, that thing is awesome!"

Quick phone pic attached from a trip last fall where I encountered a little more snow than expected.

 

[Clem]

View attachment 211943

That is awesome...Thanks for sharing!

Clem

 

[Stroverlander]

No immediate plans to sell off the Astro. I will say that the Montero seems, so, well...how do I say this...tiny...compared to the Astro.

Strover, you'll appreciate this. My buddy from CA who is a mountaineering guide, borrowed my Astro last week and took it to "a little place called" Aspen! for some testing in preparation of getting his international guiding certification. They hit a bunch of back country, un plowed trailheads for some of the exams. He owns a Tacoma himself but for various reasons didn't have it available. The other folks he was working with there also owned Tacomas. To the surprise of my buddy and the other Tacoma owners, the Astro went everywhere those Tacomas did. They were more or less joking and betting on how quickly they would need to pull out the tow straps, but wound up never needing them.

Anyway, this is a Mitsu forum. Unfortunately, no news on the Montero front. I dropped it off with the valve guy last week to have the top end rebuilt. I told him to take his time and that's what he seems to be doing. Will check in on it this week. I went to the Junkyard today looking for a few little things and maybe some wheels. Turns out they sell off all the wheels to rebuilders. JY only had 2 monteros so I came away empty handed...well except for a few Astro parts :snorkel:

More or less resigned myself to getting the BFG TAKOs in 33x10.5, but still kicking around the idea of going with a 31x10.5 in the Cooper AT3s. Especially because I have no plan to regear. That's the tire, smaller size, I'm running on aforementioned Astro and I've been very happy with it. Does amazing in the snow for an "all season" AT tire. Reasonably priced too.

They do surprise many folks at what they are capable of, especially with decent tires for sure. I used to love exacting vangeance during winter months in my old '97 Safari AWD with studded Nokian snows, lol.

Your Dad is not alone, many feel similarly. I've been wanting to move away from my van for years. I bought it solely for my last cross country move but they really grow on you. I don't use it daily, too much gas, but I love knowing it is available.

235 70 16, other folks (like Stroverlander above) run bigger but I think this size if sort of "perfect" compromise. At first I wished I went bigger but have come to appreciate good highway manners, decent mountain power and little rubbing. I have 2" lift shackles, with helper springs, in the rear and a slight torsion bar crank. I rub a tiny bit in the front and could eliminate with some trimming but I'm letting the tires slowly do the work. When the rear axle gets overly articulated on my tired leafs (215k) the tires will sometime rub the inside of the wheel well.

I have a 2003 model and though the basic van has been around since early 80s the newer models have been updated nicely. My favorite thing about the van is size, 140 cubic feet behind front seats but a mid-sized SUV wheelbase and shorty nose. My main complaint(s) is no low range (which can be rectified). I'm always worried about going certain places and not having the power I need, but damn that van has more grunt than you might expect. Also that I only get about 15 mpg highway but I drive mountain roads and I go fast (cruise at 75+) my van is old, front hub bearings could use replacing and I run a Yakima roof rack. I'm actually planning to tame down my torsion crank to see if I can get some mileage back. It's a beast of a machine, the Vortec 4.3 has ample power and it doesn't need to be babied. Everyone I know first laughs at it, then drives it and comes away saying..."man, that thing is awesome!"

Quick phone pic attached from a trip last fall where I encountered a little more snow than expected.

A 29"-30" tire is a great all-around size for our vans, not so much that a re-gear feels like it might be necessary.

Anyway, don't want Astro-reminisce too much in your Montero thread and I'll let you have all that cold and snowy weather! :coffeedrink:

 

[mapper]

Picked up some early 16" Tundra rims this weekend. Otherwise keeping myself busy with spring cleaning and some updates on the new house. Montero will hopefully get some attention soon.

Getting my 2005 XC70 cleaned up and ready for a possible sale...if any interest out there let me know.

 

[mapper]

Picked up some early 16" Tundra rims this weekend. Otherwise keeping myself busy with spring cleaning and some updates on the new house. Montero will hopefully get some attention soon.

Bad day for me and this Montero. In addition to problems arising in my timing belt/valve seal job.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ob-not-right-and-maybe-valve-guides-seals-too!!

The early Tundra rims I got, though suggested as fitting at roadkill customs, will also not fit the bizarrely large (by 2mm) Montero hub. Not really enjoying the truck at the moment...hopefully that will change soon.

 

[off-roader]

Bad day for me and this Montero. In addition to problems arising in my timing belt/valve seal job.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ob-not-right-and-maybe-valve-guides-seals-too!!

The early Tundra rims I got, though suggested as fitting at roadkill customs, will also not fit the bizarrely large (by 2mm) Montero hub. Not really enjoying the truck at the moment...hopefully that will change soon.

Montero hubs are beefy at 108mm. I've always said time and time again one needs to check that the rims they buy fit's the hub and one can even get good enough that they can tell just buy looking at how much metal is between the center hole and the lug holes to know when its 108mm bore or the smaller 106mm center bore. There's even a wheel figment thread on here as well as 4x4wire. Not sure who told you tundra rims would fit...

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Yeah, if memory serves the Tundra 6 lug has a 105.9 mm hub with a tight fitting wheel, pretty sure there are several web pages discussing this. Sorry to hear they didn't work out for you.

 

[mapper]

Montero hubs are beefy at 108mm. I've always said time and time again one needs to check that the rims they buy fit's the hub and one can even get good enough that they can tell just buy looking at how much metal is between the center hole and the lug holes to know when its 108mm bore or the smaller 106mm center bore. There's even a wheel figment thread on here as well as 4x4wire. Not sure who told you tundra rims would fit...

Database at roadkill customs shows an early Tundra rim having a 108mm hub bore. I also read extensively and there are a couple places (I didn't bookmark and I'm not going to spend the time going back to find) where there is anecdotal mention of early Tundra wheels fitting. I eyeballed it and it looked, as you say, like the bolt holes "appeared" sufficiently close to the hub bore. I took the chance and didn't have the vehicle available at the time to test, so there you have it, and now I shared so you know with certainty too, no go.

The whole 108 mm comment stems from the frustration of being a hub bore just 2mm bigger than the thousands upon thousands of good, used rims available. I've bought excellent, quality used rims for dozens of different cars (from German, Japanese, Swedish and American manufacturers) and never came up across anything so damned unique and difficult to match. I didn't even get into the next question of finding proper lug nuts should the rims have fit. IF the silly thing would just have 16" rims stock...like so many trucks from that era, it would be a non-issue. I just don't want to run a BFG or a Mud tire and would like something in the 32" area. Seems it shouldn't be so "difficult" to accomplish.

I may consider boring these out to fit...if I get the aforementioned timing belt/valve seat issues worked out. Sadly I've also never come across a vehicle with such a difficult to decipher means of selecting the proper iteration and torque for the crank bolt to not cause damage. The Montero really is kind of an orphan, then add on the fact that everything you research you have to remember to search google using all the different global names for the same truck...resulting in a little more screen time than I enjoy. As you can see I'm kind of in mental state of frustration with this vehicle at the moment. I'm sure that will be helped a bit when/if I get to actually start driving it. Some day, some day.

 

[off-roader]

I checked Road Kill Custom's database just now (http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-...s=TOYOTA&Models=TUNDRA+2WD,+4WD#axzz2uw9iWlB9). It shows the Tundra 6 lug rims as 106mm and their 5 lug rims as 110mm. You probably read it wrong.

Based on past research when I was searching for rims, I also recall (but wasn't 100% certain) that the Tundra rims were 106mm.

You're right though about other rigs having smaller hubs. I suspect it's because Mitsu simply overbuilds the Montero since it's used Globally, not just on smooth American roads. I believe it's the same situation with the Land Cruiser.

As you can see I'm kind of in mental state of frustration with this vehicle at the moment. I'm sure that will be helped a bit when/if I get to actually start driving it. Some day, some day.

I can appreciate that. The Mitsu was never very popular in the US (blame that on Mitsu's abysmal marketing). IMHO it should be one of the most popular had they touted Mitsu's off road capabilities proven by extensive use overseas as well as numerous wins on what is arguably the most grueling off road race (Dakar rally). Instead, those knuckleheads they decided to go after the Escalade crowd. We can see just how wrong they were with them having to pull the Montero out of the US market.

As for the number of names, I agree that 3 names is a bit excessive. If only their marketing teams spoke Spanish LOL, they would have realized Pajero had a whole different meaning than what they'd want. As for why they felt Shogun would be better than either Montero or Pajero in the UK is beyond me.

In terms of the properly torquing the crank bolt, I'm not sure what you mean. My mechanics have never said anything about it being overly complicated.

As for your mental state... don't worry, we're all a bit mental these days.

Seriously though keep in mind you're learning something new without any real formalized training on it. There are a number of excellent threads here and also on 4x4wire that have copious volumes of technical info and more importantly the people who are knowledgeable enough to expand on those threads should you have more questions.

 

[mapper]

Yes, I also have to remind myself how little I paid for this truck. Some frustration was imminent. That said, the jobs needing to be done have proven quite a bit more time consuming then I first anticipated....and as far as vehicle maintenance is concerned this is hardly my first rodeo. I put on about 25,000 miles/year across my cars and I rarely use a mechanic, but do spend a lot of time researching repairs and working with mechanics on behalf of my friends. I'm the "car guy" in the bunch.

Offroader, please don't think I'm being argumentative on this. I just wanted to share the confusing crank bolt issues I've encountered while researching prior to my timing belt job and since my truck came back with an odd tick after the job was done.

The crank bolt:
-There are 2 updates to the bolt, to date. I believe the torque spec was updated with each iteration.
-There are threads on the web indicating the latest update is sometimes supplied in the "wrong" length (~5mm too long, if I recall). Though it seems this mostly applies to the 3.0?
-My local Mitsu dealer parts guy AND a Mitsu dealer tech told me it was imperative to torque the bolt 2 ft/lbs under spec to avoid damaging the crank position sensor.
-There are numerous threads on the web indicating people regularly improperly install the crank position sensor reluctor blade and damage the roll pins on crank timing sprocket and sometimes the woodruff key ultimately causing the HB to spin, loosen, wobble and sometimes break the crank bolt.
-There are numerous threads on the web discussing simple loosening of the crank bolt.
-There are a few threads on the web suggesting there is also an updated washer to go with the updated bolt. I haven't yet called the dealer to see if this should/should not apply to my vehicle. I'm wondering if it has something to do with some of the crank bolts being "too long".

I only found out about this "updated washer" issue after researching more for some confirmation of the 2 ft/lbs under torque spec issue. It (the washer) seems to be more prevalent on the Australian Pajero forums. Honestly I've found no further verification of the "under torquing" issue and the guy who worked on my truck said he never heard of it and has done countless valve/timing jobs on these motors. Suffice to say, I'm left wondering where parts guy and tech got this from (presumably yet another "update" from Mitsu that hasn't yet made it's way to the common knowledge database on the web), but...it might explain the number of reports of the reluctor wheel damaging the crank position sensor...and, given the noise my truck had after the timing job I'm a bit suspicious that I'm hearing the reluctor wheel hitting the CPS that my bolt may have been "over torqued".

In any case, I'd say that getting the most recent crank bolt installed properly and with a proper torque seems to be a bit more confusing than just looking up the spec.

As it stands, I paid a mechanic to do a job and I sent it back telling him I wasn't happy with the result. It's in his hands now so I'll give him the opportunity to rectify things. Will only dig more if I have to. Hoping, at this point, it comes back to me all hunky dory.

 

[mapper]

I checked Road Kill Custom's database just now (http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-...s=TOYOTA&Models=TUNDRA+2WD,+4WD#axzz2uw9iWlB9). It shows the Tundra 6 lug rims as 106mm and their 5 lug rims as 110mm. You probably read it wrong.

I actually searched using the Montero as my starting point
http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-...Makes=MITSUBISHI&Models=MONTERO#axzz2uxxn7tIk

From this you can see that the Sequoia (01-07) shows a 108 hub center bore...but it also shows I DID, in fact, screw up on the Tundra bit. I think I got carried away in reasoning the Tundra and Sequoia were the same platform and make inappropriate assumptions. I was searching for used Tundra and Sequoia wheels but the Tundra wheels I found were cheaper. Hopefully someone else buys them off me now as they are taking up valuable garage space.

Land Cruiser is a 106 center bore.

I'm not sure how much that 2mm extra increases the durability of the truck beyond the other Japanese manufacturers of the era...I guess I'd rather they have invested those resources into higher quality valve stem seals :ylsmoke:

 

[off-roader]

I'm not sure how much that 2mm extra increases the durability of the truck beyond the other Japanese manufacturers of the era...I guess I'd rather they have invested those resources into higher quality valve stem seals :ylsmoke:

I so totally agree on better seals!

 

[mapper]

See my humor is returning already. Sunday was just a bad day for me and the Montero