Winch question - steel vs synthetic rope

[Thomas_ZA]

Esteemed Portal members,

I have been a member on here for sometime, read a lot and posted almost nothing. I expect this ill change as I'm taking delivery of a Land Rover Discovery on Friday. This Disco is fitted with a Warn 9.5 XP winch, currently fitted with steel cable (rope?). I will be changing this to a synthetic rope (Dyneema or similar). And here comes the question. The winch as it is now has a roller fairlead. Will this work with the synthetic rope, or must I replace the roller fairlead with a hawse fairlead?

Thanks

Thomas

 

[clandr1]

You must use a hawse fairlead with synthetic rope. Enjoy the new truck!

 

[Skwerly]

good choice--syntho is more expensive for a reason.

 

[1stDeuce]

I don't know where the edict that "you must use a hawse fairlead" first came from, but I am certain it was for marketing purposes, not for any engineering reason.

I forget where I read it, but I've seen this very soapbox speech by our own beloved Bill Burke. There is NO PROBLEM using a roller fairlead with synthetic rope, assuming the fairlead is in good condition, and not all gouged up from the wire rope. In fact, given that the #1 enemy of synthetic rope is abrasion due to sharp edges, using a roller fairlead is actually BETTER than a hawse in any respect that I can think of.

I think when the synthetic rope first came out, people were just tossing it on, and their roller fairleads where already all chewed up from wire rope, and that was hard on the new synthetic rope. In an order to either sell more stuff, and/or prevent complaints due to this, they started saying a shiny aluminum hawse fairlead was required. Whether it's wire rope or synthetic, be assured that using a hawse fairlead for off angle pulls is FAR more damaging to the rope than a roller fairlead would be.

I have had my nice shiny aluminum hawse fairlead cut the synthetic rope on a hard pull on the first layer of the drum because it was touching the back edge of the fairlead... That wouldn't have happened with my roller. I'll be putting a roller fairlead back on when I replace the rope this summer.

Just make sure the rollers don't have any burrs, and sand any that you find. Then give them a nice clearcoat to keep them from rusting and winch on!!
Chris

 

[Thomas_ZA]

I don't know where the edict that "you must use a hawse fairlead" first came from, but I am certain it was for marketing purposes, not for any engineering reason.

I forget where I read it, but I've seen this very soapbox speech by our own beloved Bill Burke. There is NO PROBLEM using a roller fairlead with synthetic rope, assuming the fairlead is in good condition, and not all gouged up from the wire rope. In fact, given that the #1 enemy of synthetic rope is abrasion due to sharp edges, using a roller fairlead is actually BETTER than a hawse in any respect that I can think of.
...

I have had my nice shiny aluminum hawse fairlead cut the synthetic rope on a hard pull on the first layer of the drum because it was touching the back edge of the fairlead... That wouldn't have happened with my roller. I'll be putting a roller fairlead back on when I replace the rope this summer.

Just make sure the rollers don't have any burrs, and sand any that you find. Then give them a nice clearcoat to keep them from rusting and winch on!!
Chris

Thanks Chris,

I think, repeat think, that one of the advantages of a hawse fairlead may be that it protrudes less than the roller fairlead. In some respects it may be an advantage.

I'll be collecting the Landy on Friday, and ill then have a proper look at the winch, but when I inspected the car, the winch looked as good as new. The fairlead looked a bit pitted though. It may just need a good clean and service.

Regards
Thomas

 

[1stDeuce]

You are correct. The other advantage is that the alum hawse is lighter. Generally a LOT lighter! That adds to the weight savings that the synthetic line affords. I'm not saying nobody should run a hawse, just that the rollers that you already have are fine, and generally better if you're not concerned about a little extra weight.

I found the Bill Burke rant... it's in the "Ultimate Winching Guide" by Bill Burke on page 37 of the 2013 July/Aug issue of 4wd Toyota Owner. A very good winching article!!
He also mentions it in passing on his website, under the Amsteel Blue article from 2003.

Have fun with your Landy in the 'Lands!!

 

[Scoutn79]

I had heard that the issue with synthetic rope and a roller fairlead is that during certain directions of pull the synthetic rope can get pinched between the vertical and horizontal rollers.
It doesn't LOOK like that could happen but I never tried either.

Darrell

 

[clandr1]

From the Warn website:

http://www.warn.com/truck/accessories/warn_spydura_synthetic_rope.shtml

Note: rope must be used with standard black or polished aluminum hawse fairlead

While it might be ok to use a roller from a functional standpoint, you are going directly against the manufacturer's recommendation. This could put you at risk of having WARN refuse a warranty (or liability) claim.

edited to add: if you're using the correct equipment, and your winch pull is straight to the front of the vehicle, it shouldn't much matter what kind of fairlead you use.

 

[Dan Grec]

While we're on the topic, I'm interested in the durability of a synthetic rope after years and year in the sun.

If someone were, for example, to spend a couple of years driving around Africa, would a synthetic rope deteriorate in the baking sun?

Thanks,
-Dan

 

[Scoutn79]

While we're on the topic, I'm interested in the durability of a synthetic rope after years and year in the sun.

If someone were, for example, to spend a couple of years driving around Africa, would a synthetic rope deteriorate in the baking sun?

Thanks,
-Dan

^^^^THIS^^^^
Exactly why I haven't replaced the 150' of steel rope on my winch. The cable on the winch is over 30 years old and in great shape...Can any of the synthetic rope companies provide this?

Darrell

 

[clandr1]

From what I've read online, the general answer is yes, sun and UV rays will degrade synthetic line over time. I haven't seen a definitive answer on how much exposure it takes to weaken it to the point of needing replacement.

But, to Darrell's point, that's why I'm happy with my wire rope. Very low maintenance when compared to syn.

 

[1stDeuce]

I have synthetic on my Jeep that I took off my brother's jeep. it's been in the Colorado and New Mexico sun for the last three years, and it was outside in Michigan for four or five years before that. The rope still looks fine, other than a slight loss of color, and seems to be just as strong as ever. Visit the Amsteel website... That stuff is used on ships. Constant sun exposure, salt water, rust, and other nastyness. I'm pretty sure modern synthetic which line could care less. 10 or 15 years ago, that might not have been the case. Will it last 30 years? I doubt it. But I can see it being good for 10 years easily. Probably more damaged by use than by sun.

And the only valid concern with the roller fairlead that I've found is that the rope can become pinched between the roller and the steel mounting tabs at the top or bottom of the side rollers. This would only happen with a very off center pull at a fairly steep up or down angle, like 60 degrees. If Bill Burke hasn't encountered that situation in the 10 years since he declared that hawse fairleads were not so sweet, I doubt I ever will.

 

[LR Max]

In terms of durability of synthetic, I've had mine for 10 years. Truck mainly lives outside and I don't keep my synthetic covered.

Its fine.

Used it last November for three difficult pulls. No problems.

In comparison, I cross wrapped my steel cable nearly everytime I used it and after a year, it was toast with all the flat spots and bird cages. Granted, I was winching a lot that first year I had it (inexperience, no suspension flex, no engine power, and open diffs) but nevertheless, even after 15 pulls it shouldn't be a problem. Nope. All the off center pulls gave the steel cable a hard time.

Also synthetic is SSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier to work with. The pull off the drum, drag up a hill, handle, etc. Ok its expensive but you really get what you pay for in terms of making your recovery easier. And anything that makes recovery easier is WORTH IT.

Back to my rope, yes its faded and I may or may not have skidded on it at 55 mph on pavement. Oh and its definitely has a knot or two in it. Its fine. Ugly, but fine. Its on my list of crap to replace but since its working I'm not in a rush.

 

[pugslyyy]

In terms of durability of synthetic, I've had mine for 10 years. Truck mainly lives outside and I don't keep my synthetic covered.

Its fine.

Used it last November for three difficult pulls. No problems.

In comparison, I cross wrapped my steel cable nearly everytime I used it and after a year, it was toast with all the flat spots and bird cages. Granted, I was winching a lot that first year I had it (inexperience, no suspension flex, no engine power, and open diffs) but nevertheless, even after 15 pulls it shouldn't be a problem. Nope. All the off center pulls gave the steel cable a hard time.

Also synthetic is SSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier to work with. The pull off the drum, drag up a hill, handle, etc. Ok its expensive but you really get what you pay for in terms of making your recovery easier. And anything that makes recovery easier is WORTH IT.

Back to my rope, yes its faded and I may or may not have skidded on it at 55 mph on pavement. Oh and its definitely has a knot or two in it. Its fine. Ugly, but fine. Its on my list of crap to replace but since its working I'm not in a rush.

Synthetic can really take a beating. We had a really old length that we were using a few weeks ago with Bill Burke just to see how much weight it would take to fail - couldn't get it to budge. (We were on a hillside that had been logged so were using it on the stumps to drag our way up)

We also had a Pull Pal completely self destruct - if it had been on steel there would have been parts flying all over the place.

 

[65 scout]

Not to hi-jack but how does the rope compare to steel when something snaps. Does it whip as severely?