Optima, Odessey, DieHard, someone else?

[WMDunkin]

My WRX is coming up to its 4 year old celebration and I am still on the factory battery. I do run four 6" KC day lighters from time to time, but would like to get a fridge and maybe a CB/coms for the WRX. So I am guessing that the battery will probably not last another winter so I was figuring I would start to shop now for a replacement. Here is what I have some up with. Any thoughts or recommendations would be great.

Optima Yellow Top (8040-218-FFP)
Odessey (35-PC1400T)
DieHard Platinum (group 35)

 

[wrcsixeight]

I do not like the reduced capacity of spiral/ six pack celled batteries.

Odyssey is good, Sears DHP is a rebranded odyssey.

Other AGM batteries to consider are Lifeline, Deka intimidator/Sears die hard gold AGM, Full river, and several others I cannot remember right now.

When depleted significantly all batteries have a recommended recharging profile. These can vary widely from battery to battery, and the alternator might or might not meet these specifications for bulk, or absorption stages of charging. Ons should have a grid poweredsmart charger which can do the job as close to the manufacturer specs as possible to put on the battery after an outing where the battery was cycled.

The alternator cannot be relied upon to properly and fully recharge a deeply cycled battery, despite the beliefs of 98% of the motoring public.

As batteries perform much better, for much longer when returned to a full state of charge, as soon as possible after any significant discharge, it is usually worthwhile to make sure the battery gets there, Asap, unless of course premature battery failure is not a concern, nor a financial burden.

 

[XTorrey]

I've had two duds from Optima since my initial purchase last year on my stock Xterra, so I wouldn't recommend going that route.

 

[WMDunkin]

So would a larger alternator charge faster? I know there are some 165amp alternator (100-105 stock) out there for the WRX. Or would having a solar or battery jump/charger be better?

 

[SiliconTi]

Odyssey - all the way. I have beaten some of these batteries to death, and that takes some doing. Sears is the same thing, different color (and less expensive).

 

[4x4junkie]

So would a larger alternator charge faster? I know there are some 165amp alternator (100-105 stock) out there for the WRX. Or would having a solar or battery jump/charger be better?

A larger alt might speed you through the Bulk stage of charging a little faster (provided the battery is up to the increased current, some aren't), but it would make no real difference during the Absorption stage of charging where the battery voltage is held constant while the current tapers off (this stage comprises the majority of the time needed to properly charge a battery (usually several hours), and is also the stage that has the greatest impact on your battery's life). It's very frequent your engine (alt) doesn't have enough time to complete an Absorption charge on a battery that has been cycled deeply (you'd have to be running the engine for much of the day to do it).

Solar however works quite well to top off batteries, provided you can get a full day's sun (or at least a half day's worth after you've been driving a few hours, and have already bulk-charged the batts with your alt). Something around 100 watts or better works well if you need to also keep up with the demand of running a fridge.

Like wrcsixeight mentions, putting your battery on an AC-powered smart charger each time you arrive back home is also an option (this provided you aren't out for more than a couple weeks duration at a time, in which case solar becomes the better option). This should break up any lead-sulfate that may have accumulated on the battery's plates due to undercharging from the alt so that it's not given a chance to crystallize (rendering it ineffective, causing a permanent reduction in the battery's overall capacity).

 

[WMDunkin]

thanks guys, I am thinking of maybe a battery tender to recharger after weekend trips. But if I get a true deep cycle battery would it last a weekend without a recharge or maybe get a small solar charger to help bring some back. Would I need a spare or a jump box if it was the only battery I had? Thanks again for the help everyone, I am a beginner on power sources.

 

[wrcsixeight]

thanks guys, I am thinking of maybe a battery tender to recharger after weekend trips. But if I get a true deep cycle battery would it last a weekend without a recharge or maybe get a small solar charger to help bring some back. Would I need a spare or a jump box if it was the only battery I had? Thanks again for the help everyone, I am a beginner on power sources.

I am not familiar with all of battery tenders products, but I believe them to be a 'maintainer'. They are designed to hold a fully charged battery, at full charge, not to recharge a depleted battery, especially a big one.

On Odyssey battery wants a 40% recharge rate when deeply cycled. A hundred amp hour battery wants a 40 amp charger. Once again, following battery manufacturer specs will promote battery longevity.

You should definitely carry a jumper pack on your outings in addition to the biggest dual purpose/AGM, battery which you can fit under the hood. We do not know how much battery power you will be using, neither do you at this point, so a good AGM, and a jumper pack just in case, will get you home, to your grid powered charger to top off both batteries Asap.

 

[WMDunkin]

That is what I was thinking as well.

 

[pappawheely]

I have used optima and odyssey. The odyssey's have been much more durable.

 

[4x4junkie]

thanks guys, I am thinking of maybe a battery tender to recharger after weekend trips. But if I get a true deep cycle battery would it last a weekend without a recharge or maybe get a small solar charger to help bring some back. Would I need a spare or a jump box if it was the only battery I had? Thanks again for the help everyone, I am a beginner on power sources.

There should be no problem with a battery lasting a weekend running a fridge, especially if you run the engine (fast-idle, or actual driving) for at least 10-30 minutes a day. Running the engine should recharge the battery to around 80% of it's capacity in fairly short time. It's that last 20% that takes forever and really affects the life of the battery if it's not done at least somewhat regularly (at least once a week or so while in use).
Also agreed, you need a "smart" (3-stage) charger with at least a 5-amp capability (10 would be even better) if you're going to do those top-off charges at home after your trip (not sure if Deltran has one that big, most of them I think are more around 1.5a).
Edit: This one here says 5 amp, so that would work.
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-022-0157-1-Waterproof-Charger/dp/B002DU3S9A/
Also best to keep the cables as short as possible (I see some extension cable crap being offered on that page, avoid).


I'm not aboard the AGM bandwagon for most applications myself... A good quality flooded battery usually serves just as well to power something like a fridge for a weekend (the difference in amp-hours between flooded and AGM batteries of a given size is only slight, flooded ones actually being about 5% higher on average). Only if I was really pounding that battery hard with vibration and impacts (jumping/rallying the vehicle, etc.) or if there was no way to avoid not mounting the battery upright would I spend the extra $$$ for an AGM. They just are not cost-effective otherwise.

I use Delco Voyager batteries because they are one of only a few flooded batteries that do not seep acid through their vents when jostled (so no corroded terminals, trays, etc.).

 

[wrcsixeight]

I've got a 130 amp hour group 31 USbattery, It weighs 65.7 LBS.

I've got a group 27 Northstar AGM rated at 90 amp hours that weighs 69 Lbs.

For the same amp hours removed from it, the Northstar wins the voltage battle, and still easily cranks my engine faster the next day. It was 120$ more expensive than the group 31 flooded battery though.

My system is wired so I can easily choose to use either battery for house or engine starting duties so comparing performance is pretty easy for me.

Honestly, I wish I had 2 Northstar's, and I have no absolute NEED for AGM, but I have killed previous sets of flooded batteries by not checking water level in time. The Northstar Impresses me. The Flooded battery, despite easily meeting my overnight needs, has been a disappointment, and I acquired both at the same time.

Reminds me that I need to check that flooded battery electrolyte level today. Might as well test SG too, once my solar has gotten it in the 97%+ range.

Batteries + sells rebadged Northstar batteries, I forget what they call them. I think they tack on another 2 years to the 3 year warranty. I can't report as to their longevity yet, but in terms of engine cranking, at 930 CCA, the battery is impressive at turning over my 5.2 liter V8. Even when I drained 70 amp hours from it it still easily started the engine by itself.

I am not sure of the Northstar minimum bulk current. I avoided Odyssey because my Solar could come nowhere close to the 40 amps the group 31 wanted.

So far the Northstar has not protested the low and slow crank up to 10 amps from my solar, and it will easily suck everything my alternator will produce when it is depleted.

 

[4x4junkie]

My current Voyagers are rated 95 amp hours. Not sure their weight, maybe 60lbs I'm guessing (group size 27, #M27MF).

In the past the Voyager used non-removable recombinant vents, you could not add water to them even if you wanted to. However there was never a need to, the vents were such that they recombined the emitted gasses back into water and it would drip back down into each cell before escaping. These batteries always lasted 8-10 years and were rated 105 amp hours (probably would've lasted even longer had I known 10-20 years ago what I know about batteries today).

Delco cheapened their design somewhat within in the last 6-7 years or so, they don't have the recombinant vents anymore (and are now removable), however their water use is still quite low (after 4 years they were only down maybe 1/3 cup per cell). They don't need a lot of maintenance, however they're not truly maintenance-free like the old ones were, especially if you charge them aggressively. My last pair of these "cheaper" Voyagers lasted about 5 years. AFAIK, the battery is still made in USA by East-Penn mfg.

I recently paid locally $130 each for a new pair (other batteries in this size can be had as cheap as $80, the Everstart and Kirkland deep-cycle for example, I might try the Kirkland on another vehicle I own). A comparable battery in a Lifeline or Odyssey best price I could find was around $290-330 (the one you mention, X2Power I believe it is, is $325). At that price they would have to last 2½× what my last Voyagers did just to break even (about 12½ years). Maybe they can last that long, I dunno... It's a long time for any BCI "car"-type battery. If these latest Voyagers also crap out in 5 or less years (and the Kirkland winds up also being a disaster), I may be open to jumping ship. For now I'm content to stick with flooded cells, as I've really had no performance issues with them either (maybe I'm just not as demanding on my batteries as some here are).

 

[WMDunkin]

There should be no problem with a battery lasting a weekend running a fridge, especially if you run the engine (fast-idle, or actual driving) for at least 10-30 minutes a day. Running the engine should recharge the battery to around 80% of it's capacity in fairly short time. It's that last 20% that takes forever and really affects the life of the battery if it's not done at least somewhat regularly (at least once a week or so while in use).
Also agreed, you need a "smart" (3-stage) charger with at least a 5-amp capability (10 would be even better) if you're going to do those top-off charges at home after your trip (not sure if Deltran has one that big, most of them I think are more around 1.5a).
Edit: This one here says 5 amp, so that would work.
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-022-0157-1-Waterproof-Charger/dp/B002DU3S9A/
Also best to keep the cables as short as possible (I see some extension cable crap being offered on that page, avoid).


I'm not aboard the AGM bandwagon for most applications myself... A good quality flooded battery usually serves just as well to power something like a fridge for a weekend (the difference in amp-hours between flooded and AGM batteries of a given size is only slight, flooded ones actually being about 5% higher on average). Only if I was really pounding that battery hard with vibration and impacts (jumping/rallying the vehicle, etc.) or if there was no way to avoid not mounting the battery upright would I spend the extra $$$ for an AGM. They just are not cost-effective otherwise.

I use Delco Voyager batteries because they are one of only a few flooded batteries that do not seep acid through their vents when jostled (so no corroded terminals, trays, etc.).

Thanks for the info. I will be searching a lot in the near future. I need to find a fridge that would fit in my WRX nicely also.


So this is what I am thinking currently, DieHard Platinum (group 35) 850CCA, 130 min reserve; DieHard Automatic Battery Charger (10/2/50 amp) to charge when I get home. And run a Energizer 12V 500 WATT POWER INVERTER to run a fridge and keep electronics topped off.

 

[4x4junkie]

I assume you're looking at this charger?
http://www.sears.com/diehard-10-2-50-amp-automatic-battery-charger/p-02871222000P?prdNo=3
I don't think that charger is a "smart" type (which over time can do damage to your battery). What you are looking for is a charger that has a 3-stage charging profile (almost always described as: Bulk, Absorb, and Float). Some units also offer an optional 4th stage (Equalize) however use of this stage is generally not recommended with an AGM type battery. The charger unit I linked above has these modes.

And you don't need an inverter to run a fridge (infact, that is the absolute last way you want to do it).
Good fridges exist that run very efficiently straight off 12V DC (look for brands like Edgestar, Truckfridge, ARB Fridge/Freeze, and Dometic. All have units of various sizes who's compressors run off 12VDC in addition to 120VAC). Do avoid any units that are simply called "Coolers" though, these usually are inefficient thermoelectric units (Coleman, for example).
I also suggest getting 12V chargers for devices like phones and mp3 players, as they are more efficient (plug adapters are available that go straight into your cig lighter socket for charging USB-type devices). If there is not a charger available for it, then use a smaller inverter around 100W to charge it (the bigger the inverter, the less efficient it is when powering small loads).

Hope that helps