TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

egn

Adventurer
Personally speaking, I found the details about the Thompson's refrigerator fascinating. It seems clear that in an offroad motorhome a Danfoss 12 V compressor is the way to go.

The compressor refrigerator is one of the largest electrical energy users of a motorhome. So you have to look for an efficient energy use here. Using a AC unit means that you have to run the inverter constantly, day and night, and you have an additional power loss in the inverter. This may be compensated in part by using an up to date A+++ unit. But still, this units are not really build for off-road use and so you have to modify them.

But if one's motorhome is a large luxury model, as per the Thompsons', and if one has the space available, what if one wants the storage capacity of a big domestic refrigerator? At 300 L, the Thompson's refrigerator was in the same ballpark as the largest RV refrigerators purpose-built by Dometic and Thetford, which are 12.3 cu feet and 17.0 cu feet respectively, or 348 L and 481 L. But those Dometic and Thetford models are gas-absorption.

You can get large units from Indel Webasto.

I would use multiple smaller units like the Cruise 195 for redundancy reasons. Some Unicats also have two fridge/freezer combinations. You may install an additional cooling box or drawers for special purpose.

In short, the Thompson's solution was simple, elegant, energy efficient, and off-road capable. Because the Thompson's refrigerator used Danfoss compressor technology as opposed to gas-absorption, off-road tilting was not a problem; and once it was converted to 12V power, electricity consumption was no longer a problem either. Many comments on recent RV forums even suggest that, from the point of view of thermal efficiency, contemporary domestic compressor-based refrigerators significantly out-perform gas-absorption models built for RV's.

They out-perform only if you have the electrical energy available. And would you look at the primary energy use, when the power comes from the alternator, generator and battery, they may be on the same level. Absorption is ideal if you have to save on electrical energy. It needs only little lpg to run. But for real off-road they are not usable, so they are no viable alternative.

So the decision is between 12/24 V Danfoss and 110/230 V home appliance. I would choose the Danfoss model because this allows direct connection to the battery.

The only drawback, of course, is the initial up-front cost of installing a Danfoss 12 V compressor and control unit. But over the long haul this cost might be more than recouped given the superior energy consumption of a 12 V fridge versus a 240 V model – see http://hobohome.com/news/?p=457 .

Why not choose two smaller 12/24 V models for marine use?

From a design point of view, this then means that one might have the full spectrum of domestic fridges to choose from, including Sub-Zero's all-glass-door models, as installed in Newell coaches. It's also worth noting that Sub-Zero fridges are extremely energy efficient.

If you want to have always a view into the fridge when going off-road then this might be the right decision. :)

But for me function goes before design.

In sum, the Thompson's off-road motorhome was/still is an innovative and exceptional vehicle, and when originally built was immediately recognized as path-breaking.

But it also showed that an integrated off-road motorhome has to be constructed carefully. This motorhome was usable on bad roads and not really off-road. And even then it was damaged during use. Small cracks and damaged tiles were only at surface. But if one had looked at the base construction itself, there may have been signs of more serious damage.
 
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biotect

Designer
But [Mañana] also showed that an integrated off-road motorhome has to be constructed carefully. This motorhome was usable on bad roads, and not really off-road......


Hi Egn,

Fully agreed.

An integrated, Liner-sized, Third-World-capable motorhome does have to be thought through carefully, from every angle, both engineering and design.


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1. Further Clarifying the Intended use of the TerraLiner



But also, as you suggested near the beginning of the thread, it needs to be explicitly thought through in terms of intended use. One of the reasons why I am so glad that Joe posted Mr. Thompson’s motorhome, and that Mr. Thompson answered my email questions, is because his vehicle “clarifies” the focus of this thread beautifully. Mr. Thompson never intended that his motorhome should have the rock-crawling capabilities of a Unimog. And neither should the Terraliner.

Earlier in the thread , a few observers made the understandable mistake of imagining that the Terraliner would be a “go anywhere” motorhome, in the sense that it would be motorhome designed to go where no man – and no highway construction crews – have gone before. Unimogs certainly have such capability, but should a Terraliner? Should one design a very large, Class-A, “Liner-sized” motorhome to have equivalent off-road competence? As many observed, it would be somewhat illogical to design a vehicle of this size to have such competence, because when going off-road in difficult terrain, smaller is better. That point was well-taken, but the reply here is obvious enough: the intended use of the Terraliner, and its intended market, must and will be different.


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2. Bad-Road and All-Road. Not necessarily Off-Road.



As the thread progressed, it has become clear that what' s really wanted is an all-roadmotorhome, and not an off-road motorhome, per se. I merely want to design a large, Class-A motorhome similar in size to German "Liner" RVs, one that will be every bit as comfortable touring bad roads in the Third World, as it is touring immaculate autobahns in Europe. But I do not want to design a rock-crawling behemoth. If one wants to rock-crawl, small Unimogs are the way to go. I want to design something completely different, for a different intended use, and for a different intended market. So the fact that Mr. Thompson's vehicle was "usable on bad roads and not really off-road" should not be held against it, if in fact extensive off-road use was never its intended application to begin with.

The “all-road” versus “off-road” distinction is Mr. Thompson's, which he deftly articulated in one of his emails. Mañana was not designed to be a rock-crawler, but rather, an all-roadmotorhome that would use vehicular tracks that already exist. In the course of using Mañana in Australia, Mr. Thompson and his wife rarely “made” their own roads.

Now to be sure, they travelled on some very rough and corrugated roads, like:


  • The Gibb River Road

  • The Gary Junction Road

  • The Tanami Track

  • The Oodnadatta Track

  • The Birdsville Track (inside and outside tracks), and

  • The Cordillo Downs Road

See http://www.gibbriverroad.net , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibb_River_Road , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanami_Road , http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/tanami-road/4718100 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oodnadatta_Track , http://www.roughguides.com/destinations/australasia/australia/south-australia/the-oodnadatta-track/ , http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/australia_oodnadatta.htm , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdsville_Track , http://www.roughguides.com/destinations/australasia/australia/south-australia/the-birdsville-track/ , http://www.outback-australia.info/english/cordillo_en.htm , and https://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahlynch/6310452887/.

These are not roads suitable for ordinary motorhomes, as the following videos should suggest:










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biotect

Designer
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For what Mr. Thompson means by a “corrugated” road, see the following video in particular:






Mr. Thompson did not mention the Canning Stock Route specifically. But this video has good narration, it's more professionally produced, and it does a good job explaining the causes and consequences of the “corrugation” that characterizes much of the gravel surface on Australia’s outback tracks. These corrugated tracks are shock-destroying and axle-snapping, and they test the mettle of even the finest vehicles..... :Mechanic:

In this particular video, observe how after the first leg, five of the seven G-wagens chucked their cookies and blew their shocks, and could go no further. The expedition's only choice was to charter a plane for 20,000 dollars, and fly in some spares. So much for the legendary Geländewagen!. :(

So if Mañana can handle Australian corrugation of the sort that wrecks G-wagens, that might be good enough?

Now Mr. Thompson did admit that Mañana once got bogged in mud driving on Australia's Eighty Mile Beach -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Mile_Beach and http://www.eightymilebeach.com.au/7108/HOME/ :






And he also admitted that they had “a couple of anxious moments in some dry river beds”.

But clearly, Mr. Thompson knew design-parameters and operational limits of his vehicle, and he drove slowly in dodgy situations. Most importantly, in his most recent email Mr. Thompson emphasized that his vehicle should not be compared to those used by exploration companies in the wilderness (which, as often as not, are Unimogs....).


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3. Mañana Clarifies the Scope of this Thread



Here one might suggest that the “leisure” or “RV” market for rock-crawling Unimogs will probably always prove somewhat limited. Sure, Unimogs are great utility vehicles, and apparently about 100,000 of them are currently operational in Germany, used in applications as diverse as forestry, agriculture, and highway maintenance. But rockcrawling in the middle of nowhere, simply for fun, as a leisure activity, with only GPS and terrain to guide one, does seem to be a specialist enthusiasm. Whereas touring the Third World in an expedition motorhome is different sort of activity, at least in terms of intent.

The potential market for Third-World-capable Class-A or “Liner” motorhomes is possibly quite a bit larger than the market for rock-crawlers. If American, European, and Australian buyers of Class-A motorhomes could pay just a bit more, and get a vehicle that will work not just on good roads in the United States and Europe, but also on some nasty roads in Latin America, then the market might prove very large indeed. Yes, this is just a guess, and it could be wrong. But at least it’s not an unreasonable conjecture.

Many who responded earlier in the thread did not seem to understand this basic distinction. They kept imagining the Terraliner as their vision what an ideal over landing vehicle should be. Which, for them, usually means a much smaller Unimog, of the sort that can rock-crawl. They did not seem to understand that millions of people are quite happy to spend their lives motor-homing on designated roadways and tracks, without ever going truly “off-road”. Such people might only want a vehicle that is a bit more "Third-World" capable, i.e. bad-road capable. Or, as was the case for Mr. Thompson, a fully-integrated Class-A motorhome like Mañana that can handle the rough corrugation and washed out sections of Australia's "tracks" in the outback.

In short, Mañana very nicely illustrates the vehicle that this thread proposes, and again, I am grateful to Joe for first posting it. The mere presence of Mañana in the thread should now serve as a compact and well-illustrated summary of its driving concern. Those who misunderstand the thread's import and scope, in future could simply refer to this page for clarification.

The mere existence of Mañana also vindicates the extended speculation of the thread. All of the previous speculation suddenly seems more concrete and plausible. Earlier in the thread skeptical participants fielded various objections, but they were particularly keen to criticize the thread’s proposal as "impractical", "unrealistic", or "purely theoretical". The mere fact that Mañana exists, suggests otherwise.

Now to be sure, as Mr. Thompson himself admits, a fully integrated "bad-road" motorhome built today would best be constructed on top of a torsion-free SX-45 or Tatra chassis. Or as you suggest, egn, even a fully integrated motorhome designed to be only "bad-road capable", still needs to be mounted on something more robust and torsion-free than the typical MAN chassis, because Mr. Thompson's motorhome was "damaged during use." But that a vehicle like Mañana -- mounted instead on a Tatra or SX-45 chassis -- is conceivable, desirable, and realistic, there can no longer be any doubt.

Mañana is the proof.

All best wishes,




Biotect
 
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biotect

Designer
Hi egn,

Now, to respond as regards the refrigerator.......

Yes, agreed that from a purely functional point of view, two marine refrigerators would be just as good – or even better – than a domestic Sub-Zero fitted with an off-road capable 12 V compressor. Better, because as you suggest, two marine refrigerators would provide redundancy.
But as you know I tend to think like a designer and not an engineer, and glass-door Sub-Zeros are “super-cool”, pun intended. :coffeedrink:






Note that Sub-Zero makes three sizes of glass-door fridge: the 48-inch “professional series” model just shown, as well as more motorhome-suitable 30-inch and 36-inch sizes – see http://www.subzero-wolf.co.uk/product_details.aspx?pID=93&sw=0 , http://www.subzero-wolf.com/builtin-refrigerators/BI-30UG-with-glass-door , http://www.subzero-wolf.com/builtin-refrigerators/BI-36RG-with-glass-door , https://www.youtube.com/user/subzerowolf , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5spr7G55Gk , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoXCF_xtvys , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeVSypwxz8Q .

By way of comparison, the biggest gas-absorption RV refrigerator that Thetford makes, the Polar Max RF 2117, is also 36 inches wide – see http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/NorcoldRefrigeratorsHome/2117/tabid/216/Default.aspx . And the biggest Dometic, the Elite 2 + 2, is 32 ¾ inches wide – see http://www.dometic.com/enus/America...igerator-Product-Display/?productdataid=74419 and http://www.westsidemotorcoach.com/PDF Files/Dometic-RM1350-Specs.pdf . So the two smaller Sub-Zero glass-door refrigerators are roughly the same size as these "top of the line" Thetford and and Dometic gas-aborption models, designed for RV's. However, the Sub-Zeros are compressor-driven, so their compressor can be replaced by a 12 V Danfoss, as per the Thompson's Kelvinator in Mañana. Whereas the same conversion for off-road use probably cannot be done for the Thetford Polar Max or the Dometic Elite 2 + 2, because these are gas-absorption.

Now granted, at 17.3 cubic feet the 30-inch Sub-Zero has a storage capacity of 490 L, or about 60 % more than the Thompson’s 300 L Kelvinator. But we can’t really fault the Sub-Zero if it’s so well-designed. Consider: the Dometic Elite 2 + 2 is actually slightly fatter than the Sub-Zero (32 ¾ inches versus the Sub-Zero’s 30 inches), and slightly deeper (28 1/16 inches versus the Sub-Zero’s 26 3/16 inches), but of course considerably shorter (64 17/64 inches versus the Sub-Zero’s 84 inches of height). Overall, the Dometic occupies 34 cubic feet of space, and delivers 13.5 cubic feet of storage, i.e. 382 L; whereas the Sub-Zero 30-inch model occupies 38 cubic feet of space overall, and delivers 17.3 cubic feet of storage, or 490 L. In effect, the Sub-Zero gets 45.5 cubic inches of storage for every 100 cubic inches of overall size, whereas the Dometic gets only 40 cubic inches of storage for every 100 cubic inches of overall size.

Sure, in a smaller motorhome the Sub-Zero’s 84 inch height would be a problem. But in a larger motorhome, better a fridge that’s taller, thinner, and less deep, like the Sub-Zero; than a fridge that’s shorter, wider, and more deep, like the Dometic. Things look even worse for RV fridges when we compare the Sub-Zero 30-inch to the Thetford Polar Max. The Polar Max offers almost the same storage capacity as the Sub-Zero (17 cubic feet), but the Polar Max is 36 inches wide instead of 30 inches; it’s 69 inches high; and its only a bit less deep than the Sub-Zero, at 24 inches.

It's also worth noting that GE has also recently come out with a 30 inch glass-door fridge:



[video=youtube;FRUnwzwgSIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUnwzwgSIQ [/video]



Why? Because glass-door refrigerators are cool. See http://appliances.monogram.com/ApplProducts/FULLY-INTEGRATED-REFRIGERATORS and http://appliances.monogram.com/ApplProducts/ZIK30GNDII .


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1. Glamping



This seems a good point to introduce a term that you might already be familiar with, namely, “glamping”, i.e. “glamorous” or “glam” camping – see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glamping , http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/glamping , http://matadornetwork.com/trips/traveltuesday-poll-glamping-what-exactly-is-up-with-that/ , http://glamping.com , and http://travel.spotcoolstuff.com/luxury-camping-glamping :

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Defn "glamping":.. shorthand for glamorous camping; ..luxury camping; ..a form of camping involving accommodation and facilities more luxurious than those associated with traditional camping.

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No doubt on a forum such as ExPo, some participants will positively hate the very idea of glamping. These are the purist-stoic-ascetics who will insist that if you want to enjoy all the comforts of urban life out in the wilderness, then you should stay put in the bloody city!

But glamping is now a world-wide movement, and has become an important travel niche-market. For the UK, see http://www.glamping-uk.co.uk , http://www.love-glamping.co.uk , http://www.classicglamping.co.uk , http://www.allaboutyou.com/country/places/10-best-uk-glamping-sites , http://www.canopyandstars.co.uk ; for the United States, https://glampinghub.com/unitedstatesofamerica/ , https://glampinghub.com/unitedstate...ented-rafting-camp-american-river-california/ , https://glampinghub.com/rentalsearch/best-most-popular-luxury-camping-USA/ , http://www.fodors.com/news/story_5532.html , http://goglamping.net/glamping-montana-yellowstone-under-canvas/ ; Europe, http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2010/jul/11/nicola-iseard-top-10-europe-glamping-luxury-campsites , https://glampinghub.com/rentalsearch/europe-glamping-sites/ , https://glampinghub.com/france/ , http://www.les-etangs.com/?gclid=CKij-6y8qb4CFfQbtAodjREAhQ , http://goglamping.net/glamp-sites/europe/ , http://www.camping-castels.co.uk , http://www.canopyandstars.co.uk/glamping , http://www.coolcamping.co.uk/campsites/luxury , https://www.facebook.com/PugliaGlamping ; Africa, http://glamping.com/africa/glamping-africa-destinations.html , http://glamping.com/blog/category/glamping-africa/ , http://www.glampinggetaway.com/region/south-africa/ , https://glampinghub.com/southafrica/ , http://www.campnut.com/why-i-enjoy-glamping/; South America, http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/travel/destinations/article3866312.ece , http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/finest/article3904654.ece , http://centroysur.com/magazine/glamping-through-south-america/ , https://glampinghub.com/rentalsearch/southamerica-accommodations-glamping/ , http://glamping.com/blog/category/glamping-south-america/ , http://glamping.com/south-america/glamping-south-america-destinations.html , http://glamping.com/south-america/glamping-chile-patagonia-camp.html , http://glamping.com/south-america/entre-cielos.html , http://www.glampinggetaway.com/region/s-america/ , and so on…..


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2. Retro-Futuristic Motorhome Glamping



In the world of RV’s and motorhomes, glamping is strongly associated with Airstreams – vintage, restored, retro Airstreams in particular – see http://www.pinterest.com/search/boards/?q=glamping , http://www.pinterest.com/torrinader/glamping/ , http://www.pinterest.com/kscowgirrrl/glamping/ , http://www.pinterest.com/kilika49/glamping/ , http://www.pinterest.com/jbmc62/vintage-glamping/ , http://www.pinterest.com/sagecoffeebooks/trailer-chic/ , http://www.pinterest.com/hikchik/glamping-w-vintage-campers/ , http://www.pinterest.com/nedrec/campersglampershome/ , http://www.pinterest.com/search/boards/?q=airstream dreams , http://www.pinterest.com/search/boards/?q=airstream glamping , http://www.pinterest.com/susannefreeborn/airstreams-in-love/ , http://www.pinterest.com/lazyeyephotos/the-ultimate-airstream-and-vintage-camper-board/ , http://www.pinterest.com/photosadiegm/retro-trailers-campers-and-caravans/ , http://www.pinterest.com/dollysmomm/retro-campers/ , http://www.pinterest.com/pootyann/great-way-to-go-vintage/ , http://www.pinterest.com/tincantourists/vintage-travel-trailers/ , etc. etc.

So, the punch-line: I've been designing a TerraLiner with glamping explicitly in mind.

For some, a “glam camping” retro motorhome is one filled with lots of frilly, cute Victorian details. You'll see some of that on the Pinterest boards, just referenced above. But for me, glamping in a motorhome means “retro-futuristic”: the kinds of interiors that Airstream is now producing, thanks to Christopher C. Deam -- see http://www.cdeam.com , http://www.cdeam.com/projects/discipline/airstream , http://ifitshipitshere.blogspot.it/2012/08/airstreams-mod-new-sterling.html , http://archinect.com/www.cdeam.com/project/airstream , http://www.designaddict.com/design_index/index.cfm/Christopher_C._Deam , http://www.ted.com/speakers/christopher_deam , http://www.ted.com/talks/christopher_deam_restyles_the_airstream, http://www.trendhunter.com/keynote/christopher-c.-deam , http://www.dwellondesign.com/directory/presenters/2811 , http://www.curbly.com/users/diy-maven/posts/1198-trailer-chic-the-vision-of-christopher-deam#!NnQJQ , http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/g...s-airstreams-interior-up-to-date-qa.html?_r=0 , http://www.remodelista.com/architects-designers/firms/christopher-c-deam , and see the first page of this thread, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame?highlight=integrated :






Or the bespoke glam interiors being created by ARC – see http://www.arcairstreams.co.uk , http://www.arcairstreams.co.uk/blog/2013/02/the-airstream-safari-with-the-egg-shaped-hole/ :



5.jpg retro6-6-800-600-80.jpg 21.jpg
workshop12-195-800-600-80.jpg corporate9-155-800-600-80.jpg GEJ6aWaw-arc apollo70-061.jpg
luxury13-121-800-600-80.jpg retro12-12-800-600-80.jpg image27.jpg
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biotect

Designer
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Or the more minimalist-modern interiors that Hoffman Architecture has been installing in vintage Airstreams – see http://www.hofarc.com , http://www.hofarc.com/airstreams/ :



1987-airstream-motorhome-modern-polish-exterior-930x375.jpg delivering_happiness_custom_airstream_motorhome_renovation_exterior-930x375.jpg delivering_happiness_custom_airstream_motorhome_renovation_television-930x375.jpg
delivering_happiness_custom_airstream_motorhome_renovation_seating-930x375.jpg 1987-airstream-motorhome-modern-stainless-kitchen-930x375.jpg airstream_interior_kitchen2-930x375.jpg
airstream_lights-930x375.jpg airstream_interior_dinet1-930x375.jpg 1987-airstream-motorhome-modern-bedroom-930x375.jpg
airstream_interior_bathroom_sink1.jpg





Just a brief aside: I really enjoyed how near the end of the last video the architect who designed these interiors, Matthew Hoffman, makes the case for re-imagining trailer-based living as something that financially well-off people might choose voluntarily. Something not necessarily born of necessity, as per “trailer parks” in the United States, inhabited by “trailer trash” – see http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ailer-parks-mobile-home-university-investment . But rather, that mobile living should be re-valorized by our culture as the ultimate form of luxury living: having a house that can move, and change its view. Living on a yacht has long been understood as something potentially very luxurious, and certainly full-timing in an American Class A would be luxurious, too. But Class A's are tethered to existing RV campgrounds, and they can't glamp in the middle of nowhere, like expedition motorhomes.

At the end of the video Matthew Hoffman waxes philosophical, and makes the argument that most of us humans are hardwired biologically to migrate, not to sit still. That's certainly my own view of things: that migration is the natural default human disposition, and staying put in one place, anchored to a house or property of some kind, is quite unnatural. Americans will probably appreciate the sentiment, because Americans have tended to be very mobile, at least in comparison to Europeans – see http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/01/european-labour-mobility . Most Europeans tend to be attached to just one place, and are very reluctant to move in search of work or opportunity. Here I tend to be much more North American in attitude than European, because my own view is that we humans are genetically hardwired to be nomads. Just that some of us grow up in cultures that do everything possible to suppress our very natural, nomadic instincts. Unfortunately, even in the United States “stayers” are on the rise, in comparison to "movers" or nomads – see http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/12/17/who-moves-who-stays-put-wheres-home/ .


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3. Designing to Shock, and Not to Shock



Think of it this way. For designers, some of the most powerful instruments at our disposal are shock and contrast. So as a designer who wants to make a splash, the last thing I would want to do is create something predictable, for instance, a vehicle carrying two Indesit Marine refrigerators.....:) ..Yes, even if they are both 10 cubic feet – see http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/Products/Fridges_and_Freezers/us/html/9913.html . Much better to specify a glass-door Sub-Zero instead, precisely because the initial reaction will be,

“But that Sub-Zero is impossible: it would consume too much electricity, or the compressor won't handle the tilting and vibration of bad-road travel!!”

But if they continue reading the detailed specification, they'd realize that the designer has already considered this –

“....a 12 V Danfoss compressor replaces the standard 110 V unit, and in any case Sub-Zero refrigerators already uses less energy than a 100 Watt light-bulb, because Sub-Zeros as so well constructed and insulated...”


Such attention to detail alone should impress. For Sub-Zero's low-energy-use, green credentials, see http://www.extreme-design.co.uk/coo...s-side-by-side-refrigerator-with-wine-storage , http://www.riggsdistributing.com/blog/3-myths-of-high-energy-usage-in-sub-zero-wolf-products/ , http://www.subzero-wolf.com/worth-it/subzero-investment.aspx , and http://02f06b7.netsolhost.com/blog/?tag=sub-zero-refrigerators .

Yes, the TerraLiner will be a bit of an “in your face” sort of vehicle, designed partly to shock prior expectations of what an expedition vehicle should look like. Especially the interior.. “What? You're proposing to take that thing across the Tibetan plateau, with a Sub-Zero refrigerator on board???” But if one is going to design a motorhome like this, it does not pay to be timid.

It will be precisely the over-the-top “glamping” shock of the vehicle's interior, combined with thorough research demonstrating that every aspect is perfectly feasible -- from engineering and intended usage points of view -- that is bound to capture imaginations.

However, at the same time, I want the vehicle to read as externally not shocking, for ordinary people. I've been developing a deliberately anti-aggressive, endearing exterior styling, designed to evoke feelings of magic, wonder, and enchantment, instead of worries about possible impending military attack, as per some of the more "militaresque" expedition motorhome conversions. A highly masculine, testosterone-rich, militaresque external styling now seems the norm for most expedition vehicles that are not bus or van conversions. And the color choices tend to run a limited range from military-grey through military-khaki to military-beige. Members of the expedition community do not perceive such vehicles as shocking, but perhaps they should? To the contrary, some ExPo forum participants seem to think that overland vehicles should evince a quasi-militareseque styling; that militaresque styling is desirable.

Again, perhaps this is a mistake, if only because maybe militareseque exterior styling is so visually and psychologically unkind to outsiders? At best, outsiders who do not participate in ExPo or similar forums, and who do not own or use large expedition vehicles, will think of these vehicles as looking like big ugly garbage trucks. At worst, they will think of them as potentially dangerous troop carriers. When African villagers see such huge ugly trucks bearing down on them, they might justifiably worry that such behemoths will shortly disgorge dozens of soldiers, soldiers who will proceed to kill all the men and rape the women. When instead middle-aged German couples emerge, no doubt many a poor African villager has breathed a tear-filled sigh of relief.

But more on the aesthetics and ethics of exterior styling in a future series of posts.

All best wishes,




Biotect
 
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biotect

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Was just puttering around ExPo a bit, looking for threads about IVECO, when I came across a recent "build" thread for a 6x6 Mercedes truck conversion, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...o-expedition-truck-conversion?highlight=iveco . The ExPo thread, at least so far, seems to be a kind of condensed summary of a much more extensive thread that he began many years ago on Allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft, at http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=300624 . Both are terrific threads, beautifully illustrated.

But what really struck me is the contrast between his initial design "vision" or "dream", and the vehicle that he has been building since 2010.

It seems that he drew the following wonderful sketches as a boy:


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And the following elevation seems to have been completed circa 2008 or 2009, or thereabouts (?):


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The above are fully integrated 6x6 designs.

So note the strong contrast between these and the vehicle that he is now building, which is a much more conventional sort of large expedition motorhome, with a "cab-separate-from-camper", non-integrated design:


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Why did his vision morph? Did practical considerations become paramount? Or did he find Edy Odermatt's "Robusto" so aesthetically compelling, that he felt the urge to go in that direction instead? -- http://www.waypoints.ch , http://www3.careguide.ch:22080/blog/author/edybrig/ , http://www.waypoints.ch/plugins/pho...rame=false&gallery=126&window_mode=fullscreen , and http://www.waypoints.ch/plugins/pho...rame=false&gallery=125&window_mode=fullscreen :


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In his thread he writes that he saw Edy's vehicle up in northern Chile, and thought it was "spectacular".

Edy's 6x6 "Robusto", fabricated by ActionMobil, is indeed spectacular. But even still, I wonder why he abandoned those earlier dreams of a fully integrated design?
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biotect

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Egn,

An addendum re the refrigerator.

I was thinking a bit more about "space-efficiency" as a practical consideration, and here I have to grant that a converted domestic Sub-Zero would be considerably less space-efficient than a pair of equivalent Indel-Webasto marine refrigerators. The math here is quite relentless, at least when it comes to “usable cubic inches versus overall cubic inches”.

The combination of Indel-Webasto marine refrigerators that seems closest to Thomspons' Kelvinator 300 L, would be two Cruise 165 refrigerators – see http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/Products/Fridges_and_Freezers/us/html/9913.html . At 5.8 cubic feet each, combined they would provide 11.6 cubic feet, which works out to 328 L of storage. However, we don't know which model of Kelvinator was used by the Thompsons, so it's hard to say which scenario would be more space-efficient.

So let's instead compare a pair of Indel Webastos to a Sub-Zero 30-inch glass-door model, which has 17.3 cubic feet of storage, or 490 L. The Indel Webasto Cruise 219 has 7.8 cubic feet of storage, x 2 = 15.6 cubic feet, or 442 L. The Cruise 271 has 9.6 cubic feet of storage, x 2 = 19.2 cubic feet, or 543 L. Again, see http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/Products/Fridges_and_Freezers/us/html/9913.html . In neither case is a matched pair of Indel Webastos exactly equivalent to the storage capacity of a Sub-Zero -- the first pair is 50 L too small, and the second pair 50 L too large. But even still, let's start with the first pair.

The Cruise 219 is 56.3 x 21.7 x 20.3 inches, or 14.35 cubic feet overall. Multiplied by 2, that's 28.7 cubic feet overall, in contrast to the Sub-Zero's 38 cubic feet overall. This means that in providing 15.6 cubic feet of internal storage space, for 28.7 cubic feet of volume overall, a pair of Indel Webasto Cruise 219 refrigerators gets 54 cubic inches of internal storage for every 100 cubic inches of overall volume. Whereas the Sub-Zero gets 45.5 cubic inches of internal storage, and the Dometic Elite 2+2 even less, just 40 cubic inches.

The Cruise 271 is 65.4 x 21.7 x 20.3 inches, or 16.67 cubic feet overall. Multiplied by 2 that's 33.34 cubic feet overall. So in providing 19.2 cubic feet of storage space, for 33.34 cubic feet of volume overall, a pair of Indel Websto Cruise 271 refrigerators gets 58 cubic inches of internal storage for every 100 cubic inches of overall volume.

So there is no question that the Indel Webasto "Cruise" series is a very space-efficient refrigerator: more space-efficient by far than the Dometic Elite 2+2, and also more space-efficient than the Sub-Zero 30-inch.

Also note that although the Dometic Elite 2+2 is less space-efficient than the Sub-Zero 30-inch, the Thetford Polar Max is a bit more space-efficient. The Polar Max measures 69 x 36 x 24 inches, for 35 cubic feet of overall volume, and delivers 17 cubic feet of storage -- see http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/NorcoldRefrigeratorsHome/2117/tabid/216/Default.aspx . So it gets 48.5 cubic inches of internal storage for every 100 cubic inches of overall volume, or a bit better than the Sub-Zero's 45.5 cubic inches of internal storage.

With that said, however, a pair of Cruise 271 refrigerators would be at least 43.4 inches wide; a pair of Cruise 219 refrigerators would be the same; and the Polar Max is 36 inches wide. Whereas the Sub-Zero discussed here is just 30 inches wide. Sure, the Sub-Zero is much taller. But when laying out a kitchen, the most usable space for cabinets, appliances, etc. runs from about 30 cm above floor up to 1.7 m (appox. 67 inches). The Sub-Zero's compressor is located on top, in the last 10.25 inches, between 73.75 inches and 84 inches -- see http://www2.subzero-wolf.com/products/downloads/QRBI-30UG.pdf . In other words, Sub-Zero places the usable volume where we want it, at arm's reach, and locates the compressor in a fairly "dead" non-premium space, high up. Thereby also saving on overall refrigerator width, and leaving more premium space available below 1.7 m for other appliances, cabinets, etc.

In sum, for a full-time, "live-in" motorhome, every cubic inch of volume counts. So 13.4 inches of extra refrigerator width just would be a significant loss, if one installs two Indel-Webasto marine refrigerators at least 43.4 inches wide together, instead of a Sub-Zero 30-inch wide.

In short, although from a purely mathematical point of view two Indel-Webasto marine refrigerators might seem more "space-effificient" and practical, perhaps they are not? If one's motorhome were able to handle the 84 inch height of a Sub-Zero, a Sub-Zero might still be the better choice, even from a purely "practical" point of view. And if one likes to design with glass-door refrigerators, then from an aesthetic point of view there's no contest.

In any case, just thought I should share all the math, especially as regards space-efficiency.

All best wishes,



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biotect

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Just came across an interesting website that ExPo regulars might already know something about. If this merely repeats information posted elsewhere, my apologies. As near as I can tell, the only other similar posting on ExPo is in the short thread at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...land-12-Ivecos-1-World-Truck-Expedition-Video . It's not nearly as extensive as what I will provide here. Also note that I am posting about Overland 12 and Overland 13 mainly because they raise interesting questions about the “comparative drive-ability” of different continents.


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1. Beppe Tenti, and Italian Overlanding



Some of ExPo may have heard of Beppe Tenti and his son Fillipo Tenti, and their long-running series of epic Italian “Overland” expeditions, that typically use orange-painted IVECO trucks. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_(Italian_expedition), http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland , http://www.overland.org , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni.html , https://www.facebook.com/Overland.World.Expedition?fref=ts , http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beppe_Tenti , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/team/organizzazione/466-beppe-tenti.html , and http://www.overland15.it/chi-siamo :


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Tenti is now on expedition number 15, but in this series of posts I will concentrate on Overland 12, a circumnavigation of Africa, and Overland 13, a Silk-road journey from Milan to Shanghai, via elecrtric, solar-powered, driver-less or "autonomous" Piaggio mini-vans.

For more “Overland” YouTube footage than you will ever have time to watch, see https://www.youtube.com/user/overlandorg :




The following are two interviews in which Tenti summarizes his career as an overlander, but you'll need to understand Italian to follow him:





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2. Overland 12: Africa



Beppe Tenti's expeditions are quite large, ambitious, and well-executed.

Overland 12, for instance, was a 6-month circumnavigation of Africa, that ran from January to June, 2010. It used IVECO's Daily 4x4, Massif 4x4, Musoni 330.30 ANW, and Trakker 6x6 trucks, and also had humanitarian objectives, in partnership with UNICEF – see http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/mezzi.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/itinerario.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html?start=5 , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html?start=10 , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html?start=15 , etc., and http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/obiettivi-umanitari.html .

Tenti's whole approach seems very cognizant of the potential impact on the people of the countries that he visits, and his vehicles are painted a decidedly non-military color, bright orange. As many participants sugggested on the “Ethics of Third World Travel by Motorhome Thread”, attitude is everything when overlanding, and Tenti's attitude seems hyper-aware, respectful, and humanitarian – see http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/124725-The-Ethics-of-Third-World-Travel-by-Motorhome .

Overland 12 is beautifully and exhaustively captured on video, with a partial playlist at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL147C5028762C79FF . The following are some of the opening videos:




The production values are excellent, the background music is contemporary easy-listening, and the Italian dialogue minimal. So if you have some time and would like to watch a full circumnavigation of Africa, the complete sequence of Overland 12 Africa footage – up to number 23, and including the closing video – runs as follows: Overland 12 "Teaser" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUNLWshaa48&list=PLED74ED293C2E7DAE , Overland 12 Highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDWQf0XBgnc , 12.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4b6_IOm1nw , 12.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBhikVKtNFM , 12.2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEy9FmeC990 , 12.3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEun4ILd-uY, 12.4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6JQPFrCTTA , 12.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8EGY_Fq-Ps , 12.6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bus3XJlkvAc , 12.7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX1yYbH0VHk , 12.8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlyiYobq5-E , 12.9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn7ikam4xiI , 12.10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKetPHaeLY0 , 12.11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8rWosZSpcE , 12.12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTP07sbK1v4 , 12.13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDScCeCNN7k , 12.4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwXA6jUzRR0 , 12.15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV68IfPLWbo , 12.6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGU_IQqGjR4 , 12.17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaQEvuLyH6g , 12.18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYqrrbmddZc , 12.19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8iEZBN1Pj8 , 12.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLuD2PY4r7s , 12.21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3k5DfsUaU8 , 12.22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8xshCIdlBw , 12.23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC4nwUidnyY , and Overland's Africa, a retrospective summary, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcCz7equdk&list=PLED74ED293C2E7DAE .

For whatever reason, on "official" playlists the video sequence of seems to end at Capetown, when in fact Overland 12 made the full return journey up the center and east side of Africa. Perhaps these have been downplayed, because the expedition encountered serious road difficulties on the return journey? But that makes segments 12.17 - 12.23 all the more interesting.....:).. If you can read Italian, the expedition diary covers the second half from "pagina 16" onwards -- see http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html?start=75 . But even if you don't read Italian, the expedition diary is packed with photographs.

Overland 12 is also described on IVECO's UK website in English, at http://www.iveco.com/uk/company/pages/sponsorships-overland-project.aspx , http://www.iveco.com/uk/company/pages/sponsorships-overland-project-12-second-week-trip.aspx , http://www.iveco.com/uk/company/pages/sponsorships-overland-project-12-third-week-trip.aspx , etc.

Note that Tenti has a travel company, “Overland Viaggi” – http://www.overland-viaggi.com , http://www.overland-viaggi.com/i-viaggi.html – that seems to cater to a wide range of adventure travel market-segments. These are market segments that in the Anglosphere would be addressed by specialized niche operators like Oasis Overland, Dragoman, etc. for overlanding; Country Walkers, Exodus, Headwater, Inntravel, Walks Worldwide, Sobek, etc. for trekking; Micato or Abercrombie & Kent for safaris; Quark Expeditions and Lindblad Expeditions for adventure cruising, and so on. Contemporary Italians are an athletic people, every bit as interested in adventure travel as northern Europeans. But no doubt many of them would prefer that their adventure-travel guides should speak Italian, just as Anglophones prefer that their adventure-travel guides should speak English.

As such, for instance, it's possible to participate in various legs of Overland 15, currently running. Overland 15 began in Xian China on January 5, 2014, and ends in Milan on January 5, 2015 – see http://www.overland15.it, http://www.overland15.it/info-utili, http://www.overland15.it/itinerario , and http://www.overland15.it/contact-us . Sure, maybe Tenti's trip is not that much different from similar journeys offered by Dragoman – see http://www.dragoman.com , http://www.dragoman.com/holidays/details/silk-route-between-istanbul-and-beijing or http://www.dragoman.com/holidays/itinerary/silk-route-between-tbilisi-and-ulaanbaatar . Or maybe it is, because overlanding companies vary enormously in the quality and overall “mood” of the trips they provide, even amongst that subset of operators which are Anglophonic – see http://blackfrogpublishing.wordpres...rt-5-which-overland-company-should-i-go-with/ , http://www.go-overland.com/comm/directory.php , http://www.worldreviewer.com/holiday/overland-tours?page=1 , and http://www.tourdeforceuk.com/links/ . Yes, Dragoman has an excellent reputation, but most of the participants on Tenti's trips will speak Italian, and the global travel industry continues to naturally divide along lines established by the world's major languages.


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3. Overland 13: Milan to Shanghai, with Driverless “Autonomous” Solar-Powered Minivans



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Egn, here's the part that might interest you the most.

In the summer and fall of 2010, Tenti's "Overland" also collaborated with VisLab, a spin-off of the Universita di Parma, on Overland 13, an expedition that took four Piaggio Porter electric-powered minivans across Eurasia, from Milan's Piazza Duomo to the 2010 World Expo in Shanghai – see http://www.autoblog.it/post/30028/o...r-elettrici-senza-pilota-dallitalia-alla-cina, http://www.piaggiogroup.com/it/arch...er-autoguidato-overland-13-motor-show-bologna, http://www.omnifurgone.it/magazine/173/uno-dei-quattro-porter-della-vislab-al-motor-show, http://www.omnifurgone.it/magazine/41/porter-elettrici-da-milano-a-shanghai, http://www.omnifurgone.it/magazine/54/porter-elettrici-da-milano-a-shanghai-ii-parte, http://parma.repubblica.it/cronaca/..._seta_vislab_test_lung o_ed_estremo-5662511/ , and http://viac.vislab.it/?page_id=464 :


italy-china-cover900.jpg itinerario_ov_13.jpg IMG.jpg
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These were not your everyday, run-of-the-mill, all-electric, all-solar-powered minivans. These were "cognitive" or "autonomous" vehicles, minivans that could drive themselves without human intervention:


[video=youtube;DXyw1tVCeTc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyw1tVCeTc [/video]






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And some photographs en-route:


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This seems to have been primarily a VisLab project, with Tenti's "Overland" providing logistical support. So for VisLab specifically, see http://vislab.it , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisLab , http://vislab.it/whos-vislab/ , http://vislab.it/pdf/VisLab_Presentation.pdf , http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/ca...eliminate-traffic-accidents-article-1.1595616 , http://www.ce.unipr.it/people/bertozzi/pap/cr/ijvas2012.pdf , and http://vislab.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/21-VisLab-VIAC-done.pdf , and http://viac.vislab.it , http://viac.vislab.it/?page_id=322 , http://viac.vislab.it/?page_id=159 , http://viac.vislab.it/?page_id=464 , and http://srv3.ing.unimo.it/uploader/public/matliv/2012_06_07_Porta_VisLab.pdf :

Even still, the expedition is covered on Overland's website as Overland 13 – see http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-13/blog/627-ov13-linizio-di-una-nuova-avventura.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-13/spedizione-2010.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-13/puntata-7.html , http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-13/puntata-8.html , http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_13 .

The Piaggios were completely electric-powered, so they could only drive for only 2 - 3 hours out a stretch, and then had to recharge for 8 hours. It took them over 3 months to reach Shanghai.

Now granted, the Piaggios did not travel driverless in typical overlanding conditions on rough roads, and these Piaggios were not equipped as expedition vehicles. Even still, it's an important, path-breaking inter-continental expedition. At the very least, this exercise demonstrates that there is now a continuous stretch of reasonably good roadway running all the way from Milan to Shanghai….:smiley_drive: In the photographs above, the large campers that provided support and accommodation en-route do not seem particularly equipped for off-road or bad-road “expedition grade” travel either.

Before doing this research I already knew that driverless technology had come a long way, and I vaguely remember hearing about an Italian “proof of technology” expedition that drove in the “footsteps of Marco Polo”. But this is the first time I've researched it exhaustively. Egn, does your line of work cover autonomous vehicles?

For some additional interesting videos see the following for Overland 11, which travelled Torino-Paris-Beijing in 2007:





If you can read Italian, also see http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-11.html .


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4. A Question About Comparative Road Conditions Worldwide


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Now looking through Beppe Tenti’s images of Overland 12's African travel, and contrasting these with Overland 13’s images of Central Eurasian travel, I was struck by the apparent difference in the conditions of the main-artery roads. Overland 13 was able to drive from Milan to Beijing using electric vans whose wheels and suspensions were not particularly “off-road” capable. Whereas the fully off-road capable vehicles of Overland 12 had to begin taking boat-ferries across the lakes of the more rain-soaked countries of central Africa, because the roads became so wretched. I was also struck by the difference between the conditions that the Thompson's "bad-road" fully integrated motorhome, Mañana, would have encountered on dirt tracks in the Australian desert (see the previous page in this thread), versus the conditions of those rain-soaked, mud-filled African “roads” .

In short, there are “bad roads”, and then there are really bad roads”. I then began wondering:


Has anyone created a “comparative database of road-conditions worldwide”, of the sort that might prove useful to global nomads?

Is there a website that provides such information, on an ongoing and updated basis?



This question is very relevant to this thread, and is a corollary of the question regarding intended use. True Unimog-like off-road capability may not be desirable or feasible in a motorhome as large as the TerraLiner. And as per Mañana, the TerraLiner should be imagined as more of a “bad-road” sort of motorhome. But a question then arises: what level of “bad road” should the TerraLiner be able to handle? And to what countries might travel be acceptably excluded, given a certain level of specification?

Sure, I did some research online, and one can pick up bits and pieces of information here and there in various forums. For instance, there's the Expedition and Overland Adventure Planning sub-forum here on ExPo, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forums/87-Expedition-and-Overland-Adventure-Planning , and there are various useful threads on the “Horizons Unlimited” adventure motor-biking website, for instance, http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/south-america/road-conditions-colombia-east-venezuela-56833 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/south-america/road-weather-conditions-south-america-70153 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/sub-saharan-africa/road-conditions-in-east-africa-55557 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/sub-saharan-africa/road-conditions-west-central-africa-51135 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/sub-saharan-africa/road-conditions-in-western-tanzania-64162 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/sub-saharan-africa/travel-time-road-conditions-between-57735 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/sub-saharan-africa/road-conditions-namibia-to-zambia-56753 , http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/northern-asia/road-from-vladivostok-to-chita-27269 .

There’s also Chris Scott’s Overlanders’ Handbook, at http://trailblazer-guides.com/book/overlanders-handbook , http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Silk-Ro...d_sim_b_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=0694MGWEV7R6HN7NPD8G , and http://adventuremotorcyclinghandbook.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/abr6interview.pdf ; and more regionally specific guides like http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Silk-Ro...d_sim_b_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=0694MGWEV7R6HN7NPD8G , http://www.amazon.co.uk/Getaway-Gui...kmr0&keywords=cape+to+cairo+overlanding+guide, http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...africa+overland&rh=n:283155,k:africa+overland , http://www.amazon.de/Reise-Know-How...ormationen/dp/3831717702/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_y , http://www.amazon.de/Reise-Know-How...2Q8_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400391592&sr=1-2 , http://www.amazon.de/Panamericana-Traumstraße-zwischen-Alaska-Feuerland/dp/3765455393/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400391466&sr=1-1 , and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Driving-Pan...400391424&sr=1-2&keywords=panamerican+highway .

But what would be really useful, is an online website that had somehow collates information worldwide, and ranks roads by suitability for vehicle type. Many of the above links are to threads that provide information for overlanding by motorbike, and clearly, that’s something quite different from overlanding by 4x4 or 6x6. On page 5 of this thread grizzlyj wrote:

Hiya,

....Every step up whether height, length, width, weight, axle loading or even black tank vs cassette removes another layer of places you could've gone....

....using a Mog can help your camper stay light. The portals will also give more under diff clearance than anything else on comparable tyres so you're less likely to sink in the first place with less weight, and won't ground out when others already have. You don't want to be digging a truck out! I believe portals make CTIS easier and cheaper too....

Personally I would like a hard sided poptop 4x4 camper for 4 people, on 14.00R20 tyres or there abouts, if it could cruise at 70 then lovely but 56 will do, 2.9m high, 6.9m long and as light as possible. Mercedes or MAN based for parts, Euro 3, 300+hp, 10mpg(UK), diff locks, flex, isolating camper mount, hydraulic winch, efficiently charged big battery bank and lots of solar.

People say it’s the journey not the destination. IMHO the journey would be too greatly compromised by the size vehicle you seem intent on aiming for, there are too many places it would prevent me from getting to. And I have no interest in campsites. What does 12m long get me that 7m can't do 95% as well? People also say if you want to have the luxury of home when travelling then stay at home. The point of going places is to see them, not be stuck on the city limits because you opted for separate bedrooms and don't fit :)

I want a big Bremach, a small Zetros, a bigger U20 Mog, axles more common for parts than portals. Bimobil use a 4x4 Iveco chassis but that chassis looks overcampered (I just invented that ;))....

See http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...xpedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page5 .

That first sentence is key. What exactly is the trade-off between vehicle size and geographic reach? What is it empirically and quantitatively, and not just anecdotally, impressionistically, or qualitatively?

Has anyone ever tried to map it? Has the U.S. military mapped it? Is there a website that maps it? Has google mapped it? Is there is some special google database where this information can be found for the world as a whole, and easily transformed into working numbers? I know of one such database made specifically for Europe, used by trucking companies. But what's really wanted here is an equivalent database for the whole planet.

What I am ultimately after is a percentage. If I were to design a vehicle of such-and-such weight, height, length, etc., I'd then like to determine the percentage of current roads in China that it could travel comfortably on, and similarly for Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Malawi, etc. etc.... Even better if the database had a program that could map the network of potentially passable roads for a given vehicle type, in a given country. That way one could generate visual, graphic depictions of where a given vehicle size could go, and not go.

Now that I’ve formulated the question with some degree of precision, I will also be asking friends and academic colleagues where one might find such a global database. But if anyone reading this has good suggestions, please chime in!


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biotect

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5. What is the Meaning of “Third-World Capable”?


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In previous posts I've suggested that the TerraLiner would be a “Third World Capable” motorhome, and up until now this vague descriptor has served its purpose. But what is the “Third World”?

The term “Third World” was first coined in 1952, during the cold war, to describe the world's poorer countries that were “non-aligned”: neither members of the rich capitalist “First World”, as largely defined by NATO, nor members of the “Second World” of Soviet bloc and other communist countries – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World , http://fifthworld.wikia.com/wiki/First_World , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_privilege , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World , http://fifthworld.wikia.com/wiki/Second_World , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World , http://fifthworld.wikia.com/wiki/Third_World , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Worlds_Theory . So from the very beginning, terms like “First World”, “Second World”, and “Third World” have mixed the economic with the political, generating much confusion.

For instance, in the following 1975 map China is colored red as “Second World”, because China was communist, as were Ethiopia and Vietnam. But in economic terms, in 1975 Vietnam, Ethiopia, and China were much poorer than the Soviet Union and east-Europe:


Cold War Alliances 1975.jpg


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cold_War_alliances_mid-1975.svg .

On this map Thailand and the Phillipines are also colored blue and “First World”, because they were staunch allies of the United States. But clearly, there was nothing “First World” about them, in economic terms.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union and China's emergence as a “state-capitalist” or “market-Leninist” society, things have only gotten more confusing, to the point where many think we should abandon “Three Worlds Theory” and terminology altogether. So too, they will argue that the more simplistic “North/South” division is even worse – see for instance http://www.geocurrents.info/economic-geography/there-is-no-third-world-there-is-no-global-south .

But terminology exists for a reason, because it helps us to make sense of the world – see http://www.vagabondjourney.com/what-do-you-call-a-third-world-country/ . So my own inclination is to keep the terminology, but recast it along socio-economic lines. Doing so, however, proves controversial in practice, because even informed observers disagree about which countries should be classified as “First”, “Second”, and “Third”. So controversial, that Wikepedia held an online vote and debate to determine (in part) which map should be used for Wikepedia's article about the “Third World” – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Third_World/countries_vote .

Personally, I am fond of the following five maps, and the fourth one in particular, because it captures the lingering ideological divide (China is still communist), while representing the economic dimension in a more discriminating way, dividing the planet into four worlds:

world44.jpg UN_Human_Development_Report_2007.jpg First_Second_and_Third_world_map_2007.jpg
Worldmap-Worlds1234.jpg UN_Human_Development_Report_2009.jpg


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Third_world_countries_map_world_2.PNG , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Second_and_Third_world_map_2007.jpg , http://fifthworld.wikia.com/wiki/File:UN_Human_Development_Report_2007.png , http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Human_Development_Report_2009.PNG , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Worldmap-Worlds1234.png .

The second and third maps are also interesting, because they visibly capture the different levels of development in Latin America, for instance, where Brazil, Argentina, and Chile are better off than Peru, Bolivia, and Columbia. Or Panama and Costa Rica are more prosperous than Honduras and Nicaragua. And they capture the oil-fueled wealth of Muslim countries like Saudia Arabia and the Gulf states, in contrast to the comparative poverty of Muslim countries like Pakistan and Indonesia. But these maps also have their problems, because Thailand is now considerably more prosperous than neighboring Burma, Laos, and Cambodia; and Libya and Algeria are more prosperous than Morocco or Egypt.

The fifth map, which depicts countries as classified by the UN's HDI or “human development index” for 2009, is the most discriminating, and demonstrates something that well-travelled observers have long recognized: there is now a huge difference between "Third World” living conditions in most of central Africa, versus “Third World” living conditions in northern and southern Africa, South America, China, and Southeast Asia. The difference is now so large, that most of central Africa, along with countries like Myanmar and Laos, are best described as constituting a “Fourth World” of least developed countries – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_World , http://fifthworld.wikia.com/wiki/Fourth_World , and http://fifthworld.wikia.com/wiki/Least_Developed_Countries:


Least_Developed_Countries_map_-_2006 copy.jpg


See http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb...9/9b/Least_Developed_Countries_map_-_2006.png .

Yes, the term “Fourth World” is controversial, too, because originally it was coined to describe indigenous peoples....:). But my own tendency is to now divide the planet along purely socio-economic lines, as follows:




UN_Human_Development_Report_2009.jpg


HDI dark Green -- the FIRST WORLD

HDI medium, light green,. and light yellow .[and light yellow]..--.the SECOND.WORLD .[WORLD]

HDI medium yellow and dark yellow -- the THIRD.WORLD

HDI orange
, bright red, dark red, and black -- the FOURTH WORLD




On this line of thinking most of the Eurasian "north" is now Second World, economically speaking, including of course China, and so too most of Latin America.

One then strongly suspects that any global database of road conditions worldwide will tend to parallel the HDI world map. Driving in a "Second World", north-Eurasian country just will be very different from driving in Fourth-World Africa.

Put another way, there are underlying socio-economic reasons why Overland 13 was able to travel with four Piaggio Porter electric-powered minivans across Eurasia, from Milan to Shanghai; and why a similar trip from Cairo to Cape would prove impossible. From Milan to Shanghai it was clear sailing across a swathe of HDI green. Whereas from Cairo to Cape one has to traverse a great deal of HDI orange and red, as became only too evident on Overland 12. Central Africa is the least socio-economically developed region on earth, and so it should not surprise us that Central Africa also has the worst roads.

The question then becomes whether a Terraliner should be designed with Central Africa in mind, or not. Should a TerraLiner be "Fourth World Capable", and not merely "Third World Capable"?

In sum, I do not yet have a completely fixed idea what “Third World Capable” should mean for the TerraLiner. But if anyone reading this knows about a “comparative compilation of road-conditions worldwide”, in print or online, that would be great place to start. And again, the key here is relative to vehicle type and size: a compilation that classifies roads worldwide as to their genuine suitability for motorbike, SUV, light-truck, medium truck, and heavy truck travel.


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biotect

Designer
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6. Overlanding in a Steadily Improving World


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Now an on-line database of road-conditions worldwide might also prove better than the same information in print, if only because HDI indices of socio-economic development are a moving target, and along with them, presumably, improving road conditions.

As the following blog-post makes clear, the HDI has significantly improved in many countries over the last 30 years – see http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=27283 (note that this blogger seems to mistakenly label his second map 2007; it's actually the 2009 HDI world map….).

First, here is his reconstructed map of the HDI in 1980, in which he retroactively extrapolates for countries that had not yet collected enough HDI data back then:


HDI world map 1980.jpg


Then, the official UN HDI map for 2009:


UN_Human_Development_Report_2009.jpg

Many countries that were orange in 1980, became green by 2009. And many that were deep red or black, are now orange….:sunny:

Here are two very popular Ted Talks that beautifully articulate the same general trend, courtesy of that data-visualizing magician, Hans Rosling:




See http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen , http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_reveals_new_insights_on_poverty , http://www.ted.com/speakers/hans_rosling , http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...osling-the-man-who-makes-statistics-sing.html , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Rosling .

And see the incredible collection of videos and graphs at http://www.gapminder.org , http://www.gapminder.org/videos/will-saving-poor-children-lead-to-overpopulation/#.U3ehnnlnD6k , http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-population/#.U3eg4HlnD6k , http://www.gapminder.org/videos/the-river-of-myths/#.U3eiEXlnD6k , and http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11 ;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.592 90322580644;ti=2012$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid =phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS ;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue =8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uni Value=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMi n=283;dataMax=110808$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=18;da taMax=87$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=;examp le=75 .

According to Rosling, there may even be hope for central Africa:


[video=youtube;lYpX4l2UeZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpX4l2UeZg [/video]


And see the recent symposium that Rosling hosted with Bill Gates, at http://ki.se/en/bill-gates-meets-hans-rosling-at-ki .

So in thinking about a TerraLiner's design, it's important to distinguish between different levels of economic development outside the First World, and how road conditions reflect that development. And it's important to remember that the overall picture will be dynamic, and improving.

All best wishes,



Biotect
 
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