TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

biotect · May 19, 2014

Egn,

This question is addressed specifically to you.

After looking at the Beppe Tenti videos of Overland 12 (see above), I found myself wondering: Have you ever thought about taking Blue Thunder to Africa? Do you think Blue Thunder could handle all that African mud? Would Blue Thunder prove too heavy? Would it sink into the central-African mud the way that Tenti's 6x6 IVECO trucks constantly sank in?

See especially the video installments for Overland 12 that I labelled 12.19, 12.20, 12.21, and 12.22. In central Africa things got so bad, that Overland 12 began traveling with vehicles permanently daisy-chained to each other via recovery cables. Yes, they managed to get through, but Overland 12 had multiple vehicles. They travelled with not just one large 6x6 truck, but no less than three. So there was always one large 6x6 truck freely available to pull out another large truck that had gotten stuck. And of course the large trucks were adept at recovering the smaller vehicles; while the smaller vehicles were useful for "scouting" road conditions ahead. If you watch all the videos just listed, you'll see that Overland 12 travelled with various daisy-chain combinations: sometimes one large truck paired with another large truck, and sometimes a large truck paired with a smaller IVECO Daily or SUV.

So would you agree with the statement that because Blue Thunder is a large, 6x6 motorhome, it may be a "Second World capable" or "Third World capable" vehicle, but not really "Fourth World capable" motorhome? Not really central-Africa capable?

So far, from your description, it seems that Blue Thunder has mostly traveled in the "Second World", and not yet in the "Third World". But Blue Thunder has also travelled extensively off-road, as some of your pictures attest, so perhaps you have indeed encountered conditions just as difficult, rain-soaked, and muddy, as those encountered by Overland 12 in central Africa?

In short, how would you "rate" Blue Thunder's capabilities, overall, relative to the 6x6 IVECO trucks shown in the Overland 12 videos?

All best wishes,

Biotect

egn · May 19, 2014

Yes, we had thought of traveling Africa, but it is not our top priority because of the political situation in some parts.

Currently interesting are Morocco and Tunesia in the north, and most of the countries south.

If you travel alone you have to plan your route carefully and avoid to come into situations where you will need help of others. So traveling on a route like Overland 12 is not what we are looking for. So we avoided such muddy situations so far, and won't seek them in the future.

You should also keep in mind that this roads are traveled regularly by local trucks, that are much less capable. They often have only 2-wheel drive and when stuck have to rely on helping hands and other similar sized trucks on the same route.

Regarding off-road capabilities I would BT at least into the same category as the Iveco 6x6. Of course, some of the Ivecos hadn't used reasonable tyres and also didn't use techniques typical for driving in such terrain, like lowering the tyre pressure or even use chains. So they seemed to rely mostly on team work between the trucks, instead of avoiding critical situations for single trucks.

In 2011 a friend from South Africa shipped his Mercedes 4x4 truck to Europe. We met him at a local "Offroad Stammtisch" in Germany. He and his wife drove back through Africa. The largest problems where border crossings. Once they even had to charter an Antonov cargo plane for a distance of about 50 km, because it was no other way to cross a border at this time. So at least at this time there were routes that were doable with a regular off-road vehicle.

If we go on our own I would rate BT certainly 3rd world capable. But for real muddy routes you need multiple similar sized vehicles to travel this roads in reasonable time.

Africa is on the end of our list of continents, and we probably will never cross it north/south. Our priorities are Asia, Australia, South America, North America.

egn · May 19, 2014

I had a quick look through the videos and I have the impression that the smaller vehicles had much more problems than the large trucks. This contradicts the always repeated statement a smaller vehicle is always better, at least for the terrain traveled here.

The situation is different were the size is relevant, i.e. very narrow tracks in mountains and the real jungle.

biotect · May 20, 2014

Hi egn,

Many thanks for your responses to the questions, and your description of Blue Thunder's priorities.

You are very right about the smaller versus larger issue. In locations where there was open grassland, or other locations that were more swamp-like, Overland 12 had its big 6x6 trucks pulling the smaller SUVs behind, because the 6x6 trucks could plow through in a way that the SUVs could not. But on narrow jungle trails where trees forced a path along a set road, the greater weight of the larger vehicles seems to have gotten them into real trouble. And, now that you mention it, it is rather curious that the 6x6 trucks did not deflate tires or use chains…..

However, it should be emphasized that Overland 12 did not try to avoid trouble, but rather, almost the opposite. Often it seems as if Overland 12 was deliberately looking for mud!

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1. Off the Beaten Path through the Congo

If you look at video 12.19, where Tenti lays out the initial route in the Congo using a map, the roads by means of which he intends to drive Kolwezi-Kamina-Kabongo-Kabalo are not "red-colored" primary roads, but rather, are minor secondary roads. See http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/africa/D-R-of-Congo-road-map.gif , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolwezi , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamina , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabongo_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabalo :

Of course, if one wants to explore the southern region of the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire), one really has no other choice. One has to use inadequate secondary roads – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo :

But needless to say, there are much easier ways to drive up the eastern side of Africa.

For instance, the paved “Trans-African Highway” goes up through Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, and then directly into Tanzania – see http://garancita.tumblr.com/post/74367456309/road-crash , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_–_Cape_Town_Highway :

However, Overland 12 was an “expedition”, and its express purpose was to explore off the beaten path, traveling as much as possible along secondary unpaved roads, "bad" roads, or completely off-road.

So when Overland 12 drove up through the southern Congo, instead of trying to reach Burundi and Rwanda by way of the Tanzania and the Trans-African Highway, one should not read the difficulties that Overland 12 encountered as a necessary feature of any and all circumnavigations of Africa.

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2. A Short Clarification of Overland 12's Return Journey

Overland 12 crossed the border from South Africa to Botswana at Lobaste -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobatse :

Overland 12 then left the Trans-African behind in Botswana, after it passed through Botswana's capital, Gabarone – see http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...aggio.html%3Fstart%3D90&biw=1607&bih%3 D1102 :

Overland 12 traversed Botswana by secondary roads, but good ones, up to Kazungula near Livingstone, no doubt because it wanted to see Victoria Falls – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazungula , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Falls , http://translate.googleusercontent....art=85&usg=ALkJrhjKjnQBolL2KSgqliqgiZWJirWB9Q , and http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%253Fstart%253D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/557-le-maestose-cascate-vittoria.html&usg=ALkJrhhNg6ChzjGE-RIJJAvnCVu0yPthtg .

From Kazungula, Botswana, Overland 12 then traveled across Zambia to Lumbumbashi, Congo – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubumbashi . Along the way it also passed through Zambia's capital, Lusaka – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusaka , http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambia , and http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%253Fstart%253D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/558-festeggiamenti-inaspettati-a-lusaka.html&usg=ALkJrhibHgmkKSym2vrLvfQcokHt7E8opA :

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biotect · May 20, 2014

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3. Getting Bogged Down in Mud in the Congo

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No less than three Overland 12 videos cover the period spent in Congo, 12.19, 12.20, and 12.21:

If you follow the expedition diary, Overland 12 seems to have done a great deal of puttering around in the southern Congo, which is also where it got most seriously stuck in the mud – see http://translate.googleusercontent....art=85&usg=ALkJrhjKjnQBolL2KSgqliqgiZWJirWB9Q , http://translate.googleusercontent....art=90&usg=ALkJrhhzVyvFrXDqzoXXNSEg1kNnd_BgAA , http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%3Fstart%3D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/559-rientriamo-in-congo-non-senza-difficolta.html&usg=ALkJrhj3bmFU6dspzjLDwOHqQOUGRePEQA , http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%3Fstart%3D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/561-pasqua-in-congo.html&usg=ALkJrhiai2sACe-z1QtjdgORqHhro4kGdg , http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%3Fstart%3D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/562-il-fortunato-incontro-col-governatore-della-provincia-di-katanga.html&usg=ALkJrhhAqVyrcfeRHOOpajzKRokomqCD9g , http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%3Fstart%3D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/563-il-percorso-si-fa-duro-nel-pantano-del-congo.html&usg=ALkJrhgoMPcVi-ip_MOtScgNapmTNoaGyw , and http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio.html%3Fstart%3D90%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&u=http://www.overland.org/spedizioni/overland-12/diario-di-viaggio/567-15-ore-e-non-solo-noi-usciamo-dal-pantano.html&usg=ALkJrhhH1tlrg3a8cazNkbD3ehG5DJ00Ww .

By far the most dramatic photographs of IVECO 6x6 trucks sinking into the mire or driving through swamps were all taken in the southern Congo – see http://translate.googleusercontent....o.html&usg=ALkJrhjTrz7j5j8rOfWMWDY2lliGA6vetg and http://translate.googleusercontent....o.html&usg=ALkJrhho8F8HFX7v2tALgcOIEOKXLKa_2A :

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biotect · May 20, 2014

biotect · May 20, 2014

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5. The Great Lakes of Africa

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Now if one wants to see the African Great Lakes specifically, it would seem much easier to gain access to them via Tanzania – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Great_Lakes :

large_detailed_physical_map_of_tanzania_with_all_cities_roads_and_airports_for_free.jpg

After all, the road system in Tanzania does seem better developed than the road system in the Congo:

But if anyone reading this knows Tanzania and the Congo well, and thinks this hypothesis mistaken, please do offer a correction.

As an added bonus, Tanzania's wildlife is in a much healthier state than Kenya's, where wildlife of all kinds has been in steady decline in recent decades, mainly because of human population increase – see http://www.ultimateafrica.com/travel/recommendations.html . The Lion population in Kenya has suffered particularly hard, dropping more than 90 % since the 1960's. There are now less than 2000 lions left in Kenya – see http://www.enca.com/africa/lions-brink-farmer-retaliate , http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...face-extinction-in-Kenya-within-20-years.html , and http://www.newscientist.com/article...ould-vanish-within-10-years.html#.U2KAMHlnD6k .

But no doubt part of the “romance” of overlanding through a country like the Congo, is precisely that it's so under-undeveloped and hence inaccessible. Congo's HDI is considerably worse than classic Safari destinations like Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe, and Congo's HDI is much worse than Botswana, which is now a relatively prosperous country – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana . Not surprising, then, that in its expedition diary Overland 12 wrote that the secondary roads in Botswana were almost always good.

In short, the abundant mud that Overland 12 encountered in the Congo was a choice, not an inevitability. Overland 12's mandate was to go off the beaten path, and it did. But the southern Congo is not Africa writ large.

So again, perhaps the Terraliner's design should not be held hostage to considerations generated by these sorts of extremely bad, "Fourth World" roads?

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6. The True Size of Africa

I wrote all of the above, because when discussing what an ideal expedition vehicle “should” and “should not” be able to do, or what destinations might or might not be closed off to it – given a certain size, length, weight, etc. – debates seem to quickly lose sight of detail and nuance. They lose sight of intended use, for instance, Peter Thompson's critical distinction between “all-road” versus “true off-road” capability. And they lose sight of major differences in road quality between continents, and between countries within continents.

Everything that I've read so far about Botswana, for instance, suggests that it would be an ideal place to overland independently, even in a very large 6x6 vehicle. Wildlife is plentiful, national parks are numerous and accessible, the country is peaceful and prosperous, the roads are good, and the support infrastructure for self-drive Safaris is in place -- see http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/safaris/botswana-self-drive.html#cr , http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g293766-i9284-k5070227-Self_drive_in_Botswana-Botswana.html , http://www.drivebotswana.com , http://www.drivebotswana.com/destinations.html , http://www.safaridrive.com/index.htm , http://www.safaridrive.com/destinations/index.htm , http://www.safaridrive.com/destinations/botswana/ , http://www.safaridrive.com/destinations/botswana/botswana_driving.htm , http://www.botswana.co.za/Popular_Botswana_Packages-travel/botswana-self-drive-safari-packages.html , http://www.botswana.co.za/Self_Drive_Holiday-travel/self-drive-routes-botswana.html , http://www.botswana.co.za/Self-Drive_Safari_Packages-travel/botswana-safari-self-drive-itinerary.html , http://www.botswana.co.za/Self-Drive_Safari_Packages-travel/self-drive-2x4-botswana.html , http://www.thesafaricompany.co.za/SelfDrive_Botswana.htm , etc.

Africa is a continent, after all, and not a country. Africa is a continent that's actually 13 times the size of Greenland; 20 % larger than North America (including all that empty tundra in northern Canada); and bigger than China, the United States, Western Europe, and India put together – see http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/cartography and http://static02.mediaite.com/geekosystem/uploads/2010/10/true-size-of-africa.jpg :

A continent as large as Africa is bound to have considerable variation. So even amongst those African countries that are “Fourth World”, the Congo in particular seems to stand out as having roads that are much worse than countries like Zambia, Tanzania, or Kenya.

But again, if anyone reading this knows these central African countries well, and thinks this assessment mistaken, please do offer a correction.

Now needless to say, only through first-hand experience driving a 6x6 motorhome like Blue Thunder will one learn where such a large vehicle can and can't go. But I found Overland 12 so interesting because it's a relatively recent, well-documented, and well-photographed example of the circumnavigation of Africa using 6x6 IVECOs, i.e. using vehicles that resemble the prospective size and format of the TerraLiner . As such, Overland 12 seems to demonstrate that even most African “Third World” countries, and so too some African “Fourth World” countries, will prove reasonably accessible to such a large vehicle, if one were to chose routes a bit more cautiously, avoiding secondary roads in the Congo in particular….

All best wishes,

Biotect

biotect · May 21, 2014

egn,

pairospam responded to my questions in his build-thread, where he added his two cents worth as regards COE versus CBE. Like you, pairospam very strongly favors a forward driving position for all-terrain driving:

pairospam said:
Let me say also that a cab-over-engine truck is more fun and easy to drive in all-terrain conditions than a cab-behind-engine from my point of view (but it is always fun), allows for a longer living cabin, and the added roughness and soundness can be managed with air seats and appropriate noise insulation.

But, hey! concepts are quite different and anyone has its own preference and this is precisely what these threads are all about…..

Whatever your particular idea of the most appropriate vehicle for going around the corner or travel the world with will always be okay.

See http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...6-tipper-to-expedition-truck-conversion/page8 .

So thought I should mention that I’ve ditched the CBE idea, and for the last month have been designing for COE, but with the engine accessible via covering hatch, as per Peter Thompson's Mañana.

While the posts about Overland 12 are still close to hand, it's worth noting that two of Overland 12’s 6x6 IVECOs were CBE, and not COE. Only one of the large trucks was an Iveco Trakker COE; the other two were Iveco 330.30 ANW "Musoni" CBE construction trucks:

HP002-Iveco-330-30-Hauber-Pritschenkipper-blau-Essenberg.jpg

One then wonders how the drivers or "autisti" who participated in Overland 12 felt about the comparative handling, performance, drivability, etc. of the COE Trakker versus the CBE "Musonis"?

As near as I can tell, Iveco no longer sells these trucks. For a full description on the "Overland" website, see http://www.overland.org/component/c...rland-12/424-iveco-33030-anw-descrizione.html and http://www.overland.org/chi-siamo/mezzi/i-musoni-33030.html , http://www.overland.org/chi-siamo/mezzi/i-musoni-33030.html#dormitorio , http://www.overland.org/chi-siamo/mezzi/i-musoni-33030.html#officina , etc. Or in English, see http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...-33030-anw-descrizione.html&biw=1607&bih=1102 and http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...o/mezzi/i-musoni-33030.html&biw=1607&bih=1102 .

For a video (in Italian) that describes their fabrication at length, see:

At the beginning of the video Tenti describes the Iveco 330.30 ANW Musonis as the true "protagonists" of his Overland expeditions. He admits that the trucks are now a bit old; but then again, he muses, he and his team are now 10 years older, too. These trucks had a birth, he suggests; so let’s see how they were born….

All best wishes,

Biotect

biotect · May 22, 2014

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1. Desert Rose Racing Support Vehicle

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pairospam also posted some interesting pictures of a Tatra 6x6 support vehicle, used by “Desert Rose Racing” for Dakar 2012 – see http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...6-tipper-to-expedition-truck-conversion/page8 , http://www.desertroseracing.com , http://www.redbullromaniacs.com/en/2010-edition/riders-profile/?rid=2630 , http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742034 , http://2012.dakarteamgb.com , https://www.youtube.com/user/DakarTeamGB , http://www.buzzybeeforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=376&t=34716&p=687678 , and http://madcowracing.blogspot.it/2011/11/london-d-day.html :

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2. Jago Pickering's Tatra 6x6 Expedition Motorhome

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This Desert Rose Racing support vehicle was built by Jago Pickering, and it is actually the same vehicle as the Tatra 6x6 motorhome discussed at length earlier in this thread, on pages 8 and 9 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...xpedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page8 and http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...xpedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page9 :

For the build description, see http://www.theoverlander.org/my-wheels/trucks/tatra-815-2-6x6-expedition-truck.html . I really liked Jago Pickering's description of the reasoning behind his build, so here it is again, quoted almost in full:

We are planning on taking our kids aged 4, 5 & 6 around South America for a year or two (or three? ;-) in 2012 after I complete the Dakar Rally (on a motorbike not in the truck!)

The truck we chose is a Tatra 815-2 6X6 off road truck from the Czech Republic! Tatra aren't too well known outside of Eastern Europe although they have some fame in Rally circles winning a lot of Paris-Dakar Rallys in the 80s and 90s. They are the third oldest vehicle producers in the world but the Soviet years behind the Iron Curtain killed them off from being competitive with Western manufacturers and they stopped producing cars only to concentrate on off road capable trucks, used mostly by the miltary and heavy industry (quarrying, forestry, mining etc).

With a family of 5 on the road for two years we did struggle with the perpetual compromise of size: big and comfortable but less agile, heavy and difficult to blend in! Smaller and lighter is more subtle and maneuverable but means less space and comfort! No clear winner, but we wanted as much space and comfort as possible with permanent bed areas to ensure we could continue for as long as possible. We wanted a a big body (7m) and a crew cab. This meant we needed the length of a 6 wheeler.

.... We looked at military vehicles as they often have crew cabs and came across Tatras. After being seduced by their 8X8 trucks plowing through pretty much anything we made contact with Malcolm Douglas - a UK Tatra expert and ex Dakar Truck racer. He introduced us to Dealers in Czech and we found one in January 2011.

Our one began life as a tipper in 2002, it was then thoroughly overhauled by IPEX a Tatra dealer in Frenstat near Ostrava where the Tatra factory is.

They made it like new, completely replacing the cab (we ended up with an extended cab instead of a crew cab as the Tatra crew cab is over 3m long and would have forced a smaller body size).

....We hope to have it finished for August but have electrical systems and internals yet to finish.

If we can do a shake down tour we may head to Europe for a few weeks to try and make it to Turkey (for a motorbike rally in September) or even sign up for the Caucasian Challenge - check it out - www.caucasianchallenge.com/

What made you choose this one?
Our requirements meant we wanted a long cabin body, therefore a long wheelbase. Not to limit off road/rough road this meant a 6 wheel truck. Again for off road effectiveness but also for durability an off road 6X6 truck. Add a crew cab (originally) for 5 passengers and there's less donor vehicles out there than expected! Also we liked the off road potential (lets not kid ourselves - it's not really needed 95% of the time), but we do hope to do some desert crossings and off track exploration.

Main criteria for this project?
To design the internal layout with as few compromises as possible, to allow us to have an effective space for 5 comfortably. Never possible without some compromise and as we have found out no matter how big the truck you always end up short of space! I am no mechanic, so we also wanted a mechanically sound and reliable vehicle with international parts availability that wasn't too complex or modern. We have since found out there are no truly global vehicles (even Mercedes!) and it's difficult to get the mix of older (less complex electronics) and reliable right. Our Tatra is old enough to be simple and after spending a couple of days at Tatra on basic mechanic courses I know most of the drive train is international enough for parts. The thorough overhaul by IPEX also gives reassurance that whilst this is old enough to be simple (just upgraded to make Euro III for this years London LEZ) it should be sound mechanically.

Modifications undertaken?
We had the wheelbase lengthend (between the first and second axle) to 4.5m to allow a long body length but with minimal overhang, and also to fit in the kids triple bunks before the cabin door which was dictated to some degree by the wheels and diesel tank.

Modifications yet to do?
To finish the cabin build - we have gone for a mix of insulted steel frame for strength and repairability but with an internal layer of GRP honeycomb for insulation without cold bridges. A total thickness of about 50mm should see us well insulated. The usual (big truck) internal requirements are also being done - 12/24/240v power with 1000Ah batteries, 8kv gennie, air con, 1000litres of freshwater (for mucky kids and desert crossings!) and 840litres Diesel tanks. One problem with a truck this big is that we won't be able to get close to the action, i.e. may have to stay outside small villages and roads. Small kids add to this problem as they can't walk or ride too far (e.g. day trips) so we have considered a satellite vehicle to get about locally. We are having a tail lift on the back - originally to hold a removal garage (box) for a motorbike and push bikes but we are now looking at the possibility of mounting a UTV (side by side quad) instead so will keep you posted!

How does it perform?
Very good! Driving back from Czech Republic it was quiet and could go to 110kph! (OK without a body but it will still be more than capable with).

What would you do differently?
Mmmm - ask me in few months when we have used it!

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biotect · May 22, 2014

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2. Touring Latin America in a Tatra 6x6 Family Camper

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After Dakar 2012, Jago and his family stayed in Latin America to tour the continent for a few years, and the Tatra 6x6 became a family camper. See http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2012/us/rider/jago-pickering.html , http://ourturn.me/2012/04/25/montevideo-gains-and-losses/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dakar_Rally , http://www.twistedandes.com/foro/showthread.php?p=1281807 , http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.twistedandes.com/foro/showthread.php%3Fp%3D1281807&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.twistedandes.com/foro/showthread.php%253Fp%253D1281807%26biw%3D1607%26bih%3D1102 , http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=26452&start=360 :

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biotect · May 22, 2014

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biotect · May 22, 2014

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4. The Pickerings' Dakar 2013 "Chase the Race" Tour

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More recently, the Pickerings offered a “Chase the Race” tour of Dakar 2013, with their Tatra 6x6 serving as a base vehicle – see https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chase-the-Race-Dakar-Rally/257216860985947?hc_location=timeline , https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chase-the-Race-Dakar-Rally/257216860985947?sk=photos_stream , https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...464397360267895.107978.257216860985947&type=1 , https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...985947.-2207520000.1400743404.&type=3&theater , http://www.tatraworld.nl/2012/12/06/chasing-the-2013-dakar-in-jagos-custom-built-6x6-tatra/ :

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biotect · May 22, 2014

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Also see the excellent powerpoint at:

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biotect · May 22, 2014

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5. A Few Videos of Jago Pickering's Incredible Tatra 6x6

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For a full list of “Pickering Family” videos, see https://www.youtube.com/user/pickeringsrtw?gl=SN&feature=plcp&hl=fr . The following videos in particular show the Tatra 6x6 truck in action. The first shows it participating in a 4x4 off-road driving course, in a beautiful location on a big beach, and demonstrates the importance tire-deflation, diff-locks, momentum, and the use of sand ladders:

[video=youtube;9tqkoyPUToA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tqkoyPUToA&index=2&list=PL7317B5845F6F37D D[/video]

Here's a video of the Polaris dune-buggy, that the Tatra 6x6 carries in back:

For an interview with Jago Pickering, see:

Finally, it's worth noting that Jago Pickering modeled his Tatra 6x6, in part, on the Bowler Dakar Rally support truck, also a Tatra 6x6:

All best wishes,

Biotect

biotect · May 22, 2014

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Bowler's Tatra 6x6 Dakar Support Truck

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This seems a good place to post some images and information about the Bowler Tatra 6x6 Dakar support truck.

A snippet in Fourwheelsteer's blog from 2008 says it all – see http://fourwheelsteer.blogspot.it/2008/01/blast-from-past-2-tatra.html :

"Not to be confused with the Indian company in the news as a potential new owner for Jaguar, Tatra is a Czech manufacturer of lorries and cars (although I thought it had gone out of business). Certain features have become synonymous with the Tatra name - particularly air-cooled engines (as far as I know Tatra make the only air-cooled V8 in the world); chassis based round a central tubular “spine”; and independent suspension by swinging half axles. Surely there was no way that such quirks could survive in our conformist world.

Apparently they can; Tatra are supplying the British firm, Bowler with a prototype T5 class transporter for the famous Paris-Dakar rally-raid. The transporter will act as a support vehicle for the Bowler team and will enable Tatra to investigate the market for factory-built international rally-raid and rally assistance FIA category T4 and T5 vehicles. The press release makes a point of mentioning the truck's fully independent swing-axle suspension (surely the only vehicle on sale anywhere with swing axles), rigid central tube frame and air-cooled 442bhp V8 diesel."

And from the IMCD blog – see http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_260690-Tatra-815-2.html :

"[This Tatra 6x6 truck is based on a] chassis type T815-2 270R25.6X6-413. The engine is modified to 455hp, the highest ever [attained] by a V8 air-cooled production motor. The superstructure was built in the UK and only has a weight of 2.1 tonnes, especially light for racing. The rear lights are LED, the rear crash guard is stowed away while off road, but can be lowered, and has a tow hook fitted for towing the [Bowler 4x4] Nemesis. The truck is capable of 145kph. It has ABS, but this can be switched off at speeds under 30kph. The truck weighs 12.750 tonnes empty. With all the Nemesis spares on board for the Dakar or a similar race, the truck weighs 16.430 tones."

This Tatra 6x6 became famous in the UK when Richard Hammond raced against it, using a Bowler “Nemesis” 4x4, in a one-hour “Top Gear” DVD produced in 2009:

For a more complete, high-quality version of the same video, see http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab7_1315236856 , http://vbox7.com/play:54ab6c63 , or http://www3.vbox7.com/play:54ab6c63?p=favourites&id=2041063&order . Again, it's a segment from a one-hour Top-Gear DVD produced in 2009 – see http://www.streetfire.net/video/richard-hammonds-top-gear_723587.htm .

The race was staged, of course, but it's interesting that the producers thought they could make it a dramatically close contest, because the Bowler Tatra 6x6 has CTIS.

Notice how torsionally rigid the cab of the Bowler Tatra 6x6 remains with respect to the "camper" box in back, even when this huge vehicle travels over particularly challenging terrain, jumping dunes, etc. Granted, the camper and cab seem to be mounted on separate springs, so they move vertically in an independent way, as demonstrated in the video a few times. But they do not twist torsionally in different directions. If you take a look again at Jago Pickering's video of his truck scaling a track over a dune in the previous post, you might notice something similar. We should expect as much, given that Jago Pickering's motorhome was mounted on a Tatra 815-2 6X6 frame -- see http://www.theoverlander.org/my-wheels/trucks/tatra-815-2-6x6-expedition-truck.html .

So in both cases the underlying chassis-frames classify in the "heavy truck" category, similar to the Tatra "Phoenix" construction truck -- see http://tatra-lkw.de/tatra-phoenix/ :

The backbone-tube Tatra drivetrain, combined with a stiff frame, provides torsional rigidity similar to a MAN SX-45, or certain kinds of MAN-KAT. For potential MAN-KAT rigidity, see the video that egn originally posted in the "pivoting frames and mounting campers" thread, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/25494-pivoting-frames-and-mounting-campers/page36 :

This video beautifully illustrated the kind of rigidity that a torsion-free frame can provide.

Here's another video, of a totally sick 1000 HP MAN KAT (the engine comes from a Leopard 2 tank), in this case demonstrating almost 100 % torsional rigidity:

The contrast here is with camper boxes mounted on more typical MAN or Unimog chassis frames, where the cab and camper twist in opposite directions when driving over rough terrain, as abundantly evidenced by the ActionMobil and UniCat videos posted at the beginning of this thread -- see http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...-8x8-Expedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame.

It should also be re-emphasized that Tatra's more "middle class" trucks, i.e. the 810 series, do not have torsionally rigid frames. As per most off-road trucks, in the following video the cab goes in one direction, and the payload in the other -- see http://tatra-lkw.de/tatra-810/ :

Here are some stills of the Top-Gear "race":

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