danfromsyr
Adventurer
Damnation Alley that's a big rig :smiley_drive:
INTERESTING
- Thread starter LIVEABOARD
- Start date
Scott Brady
Founder
He intends to drive it around the world (according to the article). That would be irresponsible and dangerous to him and his hosts. That is simply a fact, no sugar coating. Having circumnavigated the world three times, I can assure you that this vehicle would be extremely dangerous to operate, even with a professional driver. Road conditions in Eastern Europe and Russia would restrict movement to only main trucking routes, and even then, those routes change frequently and are in constant state of disrepair, and with endless hazards throughout each driving day. On just my last trip across Russia, I experienced no less than three near fatality accidents, and I was driving a little Land Cruiser, and being as careful as possible.
If he wants to drive it around the Southwest, then perfect. If he wants to represent overland travelers in foreign countries, then I feel it is irresponsible and unnecessarily dangerous to him and others on the road. Disagree if you would like - it is just one jokers opinion.
NeverEnough
Adventurer
My rig (with or without the trailer) is a monster and weighs half as much. Even in the southwest US, if you want to get off the beaten path, that rig simply won't fit without losing a lot of paint and parts. I know because I spend a lot of money on paint and parts!!!! My international travel and living experience is not extensive, but enough to know that my favorite vehicle is motorcycle. And few things rival public transportation to really "see" the world.
It is certainly a very cool rig, and I'd love to have that kind of budget! Hopefully some of the tech will benefit us all.
It is certainly a very cool rig, and I'd love to have that kind of budget! Hopefully some of the tech will benefit us all.
michaelvanpelt
Observer
I should know better than to weigh in on this subject but then again I am not that smart sometimes.
It all subjective.
This vehicle will bring many people into knowledge of world travel. Thats the story here. There are people traveling the world in almost anything imaginable. We were involved in an 8x8 that for me was to big but as I say "Its subjective"
People that "prefer" Land Cruisers and Toyota Tacoma's don't get the "Big Truck" I have been on 6 continents mostly driving what most would consider "Big Trucks" and while it would not be ideal in some places I would be fine traveling around the world in this one.
I drive a Toyota Land Cruiser and I love it. I also drive big trucks and I love them. The difference usually is how you travel not what you travel in. He might chose to stay on main roads and set up a base camp and use the truck or the other vehicle he carries to spider out exploring during the day returning at night to enjoy a life most only dream of. It's the same in the USA some use a Sprinter or a pop up trailer behind a jeep and others are willing to hassle driving the 4 slide bus to live the comfort they "need" and use other vehicles to get around. And guess what THEY ARE ""ALL RIGHT"" for them.
We should do everything we can as a social group, to support the uniqueness of his travel style.
It all subjective.
This vehicle will bring many people into knowledge of world travel. Thats the story here. There are people traveling the world in almost anything imaginable. We were involved in an 8x8 that for me was to big but as I say "Its subjective"
People that "prefer" Land Cruisers and Toyota Tacoma's don't get the "Big Truck" I have been on 6 continents mostly driving what most would consider "Big Trucks" and while it would not be ideal in some places I would be fine traveling around the world in this one.
I drive a Toyota Land Cruiser and I love it. I also drive big trucks and I love them. The difference usually is how you travel not what you travel in. He might chose to stay on main roads and set up a base camp and use the truck or the other vehicle he carries to spider out exploring during the day returning at night to enjoy a life most only dream of. It's the same in the USA some use a Sprinter or a pop up trailer behind a jeep and others are willing to hassle driving the 4 slide bus to live the comfort they "need" and use other vehicles to get around. And guess what THEY ARE ""ALL RIGHT"" for them.
We should do everything we can as a social group, to support the uniqueness of his travel style.
Scott Brady
Founder
A compact, Unimog-based expedition camper can work in many environments. We have taken full-size EarthRoamers through Central America and crossed the Bushvield of Africa in a Unimog Unicat. Those trucks had significant limitations, but most situations were manageable, particularly when smaller vehicles are in the party to scout routes ahead. Those trucks, and your GXV are about half the size of this monster.
I am reminded of a recent trip conducted by a European camper manufacturer. They went to Morocco and started across the high Atlas, until one of the Unimog camper owners clipped the corner of a house and tore half of it away. Arrogant, the just offered to pay off the village chief, who was incensed by the insult. Things escalated, and they were lucky to get away without big problems. And that was with a mid-sized Unimog 4x4 camper. In Central America, we needed to buy a 10' section of PVC to lift the power lines away from the top of the EarthRoamer, and that truck is 60% of the KiraVan. I see a standard Unimog GXV or Earthroamer as the upper limits for global travel.
The KiraVan is a tractor/trailer. . .
My concern was only that others might think this concept was "generally" a good idea, or a new standard to aspire to. I am all about personal choice and enjoying whatever someone wants to travel in, no matter how odd (heck, I drive Land Rovers), but this is a high-profile announcement and could easily send the wrong message. No one benefits if all we do is smile, nod and adorn inappropriate "builds" with
To summarize (again), I see this vehicle as dangerous for international travel, both to the operator and the people/vehicles/animals/buildings that encounter it along the way. Just my opinion.
I am reminded of a recent trip conducted by a European camper manufacturer. They went to Morocco and started across the high Atlas, until one of the Unimog camper owners clipped the corner of a house and tore half of it away. Arrogant, the just offered to pay off the village chief, who was incensed by the insult. Things escalated, and they were lucky to get away without big problems. And that was with a mid-sized Unimog 4x4 camper. In Central America, we needed to buy a 10' section of PVC to lift the power lines away from the top of the EarthRoamer, and that truck is 60% of the KiraVan. I see a standard Unimog GXV or Earthroamer as the upper limits for global travel.
The KiraVan is a tractor/trailer. . .
My concern was only that others might think this concept was "generally" a good idea, or a new standard to aspire to. I am all about personal choice and enjoying whatever someone wants to travel in, no matter how odd (heck, I drive Land Rovers), but this is a high-profile announcement and could easily send the wrong message. No one benefits if all we do is smile, nod and adorn inappropriate "builds" with
To summarize (again), I see this vehicle as dangerous for international travel, both to the operator and the people/vehicles/animals/buildings that encounter it along the way. Just my opinion.
shortbus4x4
Expedition Leader
Its not just the size either. Wonder how much the thing weighs. I know there will be quite a few bridges he won't be able to cross in other countries, heck even here in the US there will be some he can't cross.
NeverEnough
Adventurer
I'm curious what became of the MAXIMOG project. The overall architecture is the same, with primary vehicle and drive-axle (s) trailer. He obviously wanted to go bigger. I'm most curious about the tech and if it ever got field-tested in the MAXIMOG. A drive-axle trailer would be interesting. And I want to know what he's using for the black-water incinerator (EcoJohn?). The list of questions is very long.........
Totally agree with Scott here.
Regardless of what each person "can" build and use, one should also take his environment into heavy consideration.
Tread lightly probably won't apply to this beast.
I would think little Kira would learn equally and probably safer in a smaller overland vehicle with less.
She could probably learn to live off the land, or at least see how the other half does in real time.
Instead of sitting in the highrise beast eating her Cheerios looking out the window at some poverty stricken villagers making their way through their morning routines just to make it to their next meal.
All she is going to learn is how money can't buy friends or happiness.
Regardless of what each person "can" build and use, one should also take his environment into heavy consideration.
Tread lightly probably won't apply to this beast.
I would think little Kira would learn equally and probably safer in a smaller overland vehicle with less.
She could probably learn to live off the land, or at least see how the other half does in real time.
Instead of sitting in the highrise beast eating her Cheerios looking out the window at some poverty stricken villagers making their way through their morning routines just to make it to their next meal.
All she is going to learn is how money can't buy friends or happiness.
michaelvanpelt
Observer
I can agree we can all do with less to some extent. But some thoughts to consider.
When I first heard the term overlanding almost 20 years ago I asked the European people I was talking to what is an Overlander? They described overlanding as a trip lasting months and in some cases years traveling to see the sights, learn the culture and enjoy the people. When they completed describing it I said we call them full timers
Then they qualified it as....... "outside western Europe" and away from the comfort zone.
I have jumped out of an airplane in tandem with another person but I don't consider myself a skydiver
I own a four-wheel-drive jeep that has front and rear lockers, oversized tires with Skid plates,winch and everything else imaginable but I don't consider it a rock crawler.
But I am a true overlander. And I would be an overlander doing the same on a bicycle.
Its you or sometimes you and your loved one traveling alone for an extended period of time. Its a lifestyle. I have never had a support/scout vehicle nor had trouble going anywhere I wanted to go and I have rarely traveled with others in a group. When you have a loved one with you, safety becomes number one priority. In my Unimog windows are 10 feet off the ground and the doors have 3 and 4 point locking systems. This makes them rarely broken into. And a huge deterrent to someone wishing you harm. Much less vulnerable than in a standard sized vehicle sleeping at near ground level or even in hotels.
I applaud everyone willing to spend the time to become a true Overlander in whatever they can afford and whatever vehicle they're comfortable with.
I have been all over the world in "big" truck expedition vehicles as well as just renting cars, vans,and pickups. I don't consider the Unimog a big Expedition Vehicle.
Lets consider the numbers. Most Unimog's when completed as Expedition Vehicles are about 26 to 28 feet long 12 high. They have 2 times the ground clearance of anything on the road and with a 31.5 foot turning radius on the standard 154in wheelbase. The Unimog is extremely maneuverable, compared to the Toyota Tacoma double cab with a 40.1 feet turning radius. Almost a 10 foot smaller turning radius!!! And over a 20 foot better turning radius than on the Ford F550 crew cab. The same Toyota Double Cab is about 18 feet long and when you add the camp trailer most have behind they are as long or longer than the "Big Expedition Vehicle" So when people start talking big truck or small truck with the exception of height I don't get it. There are trade offs in everything. The larger vehicles are safer.
I think this body has similar characteristics to what we build. Our trucks use SUBSTANTIALLY LESS ENERGY THAN ALMOST ANYONES HOME, even a very small home. They don't sink into the dirt when off road more than a typical 4x4, they typically float over it because of the broad footprint. They do tread lightly.
It is a perception that it is to big or too whatever, it is also subjective, but it is not irresponsible if it is a DOT legal vehicle. With a trailer it changes the dynamics of everything, but not beyond usability. To Scotts point I think the Trailer will make the maneuverability more challenging but for me while it would not be my dream vehicle, I would be fine driving it anyplace it would fit. And I think much safer than the local buses or trucks/trailers that are on the same roads. He won't be running bald tires and bad brakes. I always see small busses and trucks upside down over the edge but I have never felt concern for us.
For me it is not what I would want but having said that , I would much rather be driving this Kerivan thing than I would be a Toyota Tacoma etc. By the European definition of over landing, having some of the luxury of home, a needed shower, enjoying a balanced home-cooked meal with a comfortable bed are necessities to a true overlander.
To quote a recent client of ours, He said "Quote " I think that a large percentage of people that are on the portal are confusing offroading/camping with overlanding." Unquote"
In Summary; I totally respect Scotts travels but for me I would not in any sense of the imagination consider the Kerivan as dangerous or imprudent. It's about the Travel not the truck.
Scott Brady
Founder
It is a good discussion, and ultimately these are all just opinions as none of us have tested the vehicle and it is still just vaporware.
If he actually takes it all the way around the world with his daughter, I will gladly and ceremoniously eat crow. I do hope the experience is all this guys dreams it will be. . .
If he actually takes it all the way around the world with his daughter, I will gladly and ceremoniously eat crow. I do hope the experience is all this guys dreams it will be. . .
Malibusurfer
New member
If he built it for his daughter and him to spend time together he dropped the ball..... Kids care about attention and "being there", not fancy expensive crap..... His money way outdid his sense of what being a parent is, in MY opinion....
Agreed. Camping with Dad has a totally different context than what I grew up with... It reminds of an article in Yachting magazine I read a couple years ago about a father that built a 90 foot sportfishing boat so he could go "fishing" with his young son (shark fishing mind you and the boat included a 22 cal hand gun to shoot the sharks when brought on board... safety first). The author of the article mentioned that fishing with Dad on a multimillion dollar 90 foot boat with crew, etc. just seemed to miss the mark of fishing with Dad... typically a row boat or smaller sportfisher that father and son would handle together in good weather and bad... searching for worms... luke warm drinks... etc... two totally different experiences
The MaxiMog and KiraVan are both hugely successful for what they are - P.R. tools and ego amplifiers. Look at all the people talking about them and all the press. You certainly have to give Mr. Ferren credit for creating a truly fantastic vehicle.
From an expedition point of view, the KiraVan is sort of ridiculous. Of course you could take it around the world hypothetically but practically it will not go far. No need to test drive it, it is obvious to anyone who has done what Mr. Ferren suggests his vehicle is designed to do.
However I don't think any of that is really the point. You can travel more places in that vehicle vicariously than you can in most overland vehicles. Like many expedition vehicles, it's all about what it could do in someones' imagination not what it will actually do in reality. For many, it is really not about the destination anyway but more about the vehicles and equipment. After all, you really don't need 90% of the stuff advertised in the overland journal to go “overlanding” and many people have vehicles prepped for trips they will never do. For many, the goal of attaining the ultimate vehicle and gear becomes an end in itself. Mr. Ferren certainly succeeded in that.
On a side note, I sometimes have more fun while my 20 month old son “drives” our Unimog or Land Rover then when I'm actually “overlanding.” I know my son and I would have awesome adventures in the KiraVan, especially when he is "driving" and operating all the gadgets, and we wouldn't even have to leave the driveway.
From an expedition point of view, the KiraVan is sort of ridiculous. Of course you could take it around the world hypothetically but practically it will not go far. No need to test drive it, it is obvious to anyone who has done what Mr. Ferren suggests his vehicle is designed to do.
However I don't think any of that is really the point. You can travel more places in that vehicle vicariously than you can in most overland vehicles. Like many expedition vehicles, it's all about what it could do in someones' imagination not what it will actually do in reality. For many, it is really not about the destination anyway but more about the vehicles and equipment. After all, you really don't need 90% of the stuff advertised in the overland journal to go “overlanding” and many people have vehicles prepped for trips they will never do. For many, the goal of attaining the ultimate vehicle and gear becomes an end in itself. Mr. Ferren certainly succeeded in that.
On a side note, I sometimes have more fun while my 20 month old son “drives” our Unimog or Land Rover then when I'm actually “overlanding.” I know my son and I would have awesome adventures in the KiraVan, especially when he is "driving" and operating all the gadgets, and we wouldn't even have to leave the driveway.
I can't wait to read the trip coverage of the Kerivan tackling big river crossings where bridges are non existent, or severely damaged and weight is a big factor.
In reality, I just don't see that monster vehicle ever leaving the highway for much more than a beach cruise, or a desert romp.
Trekking through the deep woods, swamps, miles of washboard and rocks, I'm just not seeing it.
In reality, I just don't see that monster vehicle ever leaving the highway for much more than a beach cruise, or a desert romp.
Trekking through the deep woods, swamps, miles of washboard and rocks, I'm just not seeing it.
DirtWhiskey
Western Dirt Rat
Good thread here. A little disappointing with some of the out of hand judgement (Ferren is a bad dad? Really??), so I'll just point to some more info about this truck. In this video, Bran discusses this build in detail, the previous build, Maximog, the trailer he added to Maximog and the Rovers he has driven all over the place. Guy is using finite element analysis, stress modeling, a 16 member superstar design team from Applied Minds (tough gig to get, one of them designed the Mercedes Smart Car).
While it is way beyond anything I could ever conceive, it is not vaporware, it is a significant design and scientific achievement in remote travel. I also think there may be a thing or two to learn from this build, no matter your preferred method of travel. I'll admit I'm a long-time admirer of his work, but this is worth every bit of the 27 minutes it takes: http://vimeo.com/86089330
While it is way beyond anything I could ever conceive, it is not vaporware, it is a significant design and scientific achievement in remote travel. I also think there may be a thing or two to learn from this build, no matter your preferred method of travel. I'll admit I'm a long-time admirer of his work, but this is worth every bit of the 27 minutes it takes: http://vimeo.com/86089330