greengreer
Adventurer
Did you find a shock that you like for your lift? If so, got any part numbers to share? Lookin good, just need those 33's now!
1991 Ford Bronco buildup
- Thread starter AFBronco235
- Start date
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
Yep, I ordered a set of Bilstein 5100's all around. I'll let everyone know how that works out once I get them installed.
Yes I did.
greengreer
Adventurer
Did you order them for a 4" lift? Or did you go with custom lengths?
thethePete
Explorer
Camber bushings will only take you so far. The inherent problem with lifting a TTB suspension set up is that there is a finite amount of adjustment you can get in the camber. it's relatively fixed in the same way a solid axle is. That's why cut and turned TTB housings exist. They allow you to run steeper angles while mantaining proper camber at ride height. The other option is the one that was discussed; drop brackets. They essentially lower the mounting point of the TTB housing the same amount as the lift being achieved. It keeps everything in factory spec for angles, because you're essentially just hanging the housing lower off the bottom of the truck.
TTB is great if you fully understand how they work and what they are, but to make them streetable you really need to understand the suspension design principles that apply to any vehicle.
If you're looking to get rid of tire scrub caused by your steering, the only real way is to go to a swingset steering set up. Anything else is just a bandaid and won't actually eliminate scrub. Your tierods have to move at the same arc as the control arm or it will scrub. The stock "Y" type steering does not do this and you end up with scrub, though at stock height it's usually not noticable because there isn't enough movement of the suspension. It's an acceptable solution for the factory requirements of a stock vehicle.
A drop-pitman helps bring the drag link/tierod down to a better spot when you lift, but it doesn't correct the inherent problem.
If you're looking for a cheapish way to beef up your front suspension, the E350 ambulance package stuff will pretty much bolt up and is much burlier. Lots of info on the swap.
Otherwise a cool truck. Nice change from all the hyper-expensive factory builds on here.
TTB is great if you fully understand how they work and what they are, but to make them streetable you really need to understand the suspension design principles that apply to any vehicle.
If you're looking to get rid of tire scrub caused by your steering, the only real way is to go to a swingset steering set up. Anything else is just a bandaid and won't actually eliminate scrub. Your tierods have to move at the same arc as the control arm or it will scrub. The stock "Y" type steering does not do this and you end up with scrub, though at stock height it's usually not noticable because there isn't enough movement of the suspension. It's an acceptable solution for the factory requirements of a stock vehicle.
A drop-pitman helps bring the drag link/tierod down to a better spot when you lift, but it doesn't correct the inherent problem.
If you're looking for a cheapish way to beef up your front suspension, the E350 ambulance package stuff will pretty much bolt up and is much burlier. Lots of info on the swap.
Otherwise a cool truck. Nice change from all the hyper-expensive factory builds on here.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
I actually do understand the TTB and know its not going to be perfect when it comes to tire wear. And I do have several other ideas on how to decrease tire scrub, including a dropped pitman arm, if I can ever get the old on off. Its stuck on there good. I can also flip the tire rods so they're sitting on top of the wheel pivots instead of underneath, though that requires a bit of modification from a kit but not too much.
The main reason I didn't want to go with drop brackets is simple. Its hard to find a good set of brackets that won't actually make the suspension weaker. You'd have to use some REALLY beefy brackets to drop the suspension that way. Most drop brackets out there are only good for the street and have a reputation for failing on the trail.
The TTB gets a bad reputation because its so different from a simple wishbone suspension. The design has the tires rotating around the pivot on the end of the beams, making the camber change depending on weight load, which drives alignment technicians crazy these days. Honestly, I was able to get great tire alignment just with a tape measure without a fancy alignment rack. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the TTB was not meant to be precisely adjusted like modern suspension systems. So you simply get it as close as possible and that's good enough. I was lucky enough to be taught by some old school mechanics who use they're eyes and ears to diagnose problems instead of relying on a computer to tell them what is wrong.
The main reason I didn't want to go with drop brackets is simple. Its hard to find a good set of brackets that won't actually make the suspension weaker. You'd have to use some REALLY beefy brackets to drop the suspension that way. Most drop brackets out there are only good for the street and have a reputation for failing on the trail.
The TTB gets a bad reputation because its so different from a simple wishbone suspension. The design has the tires rotating around the pivot on the end of the beams, making the camber change depending on weight load, which drives alignment technicians crazy these days. Honestly, I was able to get great tire alignment just with a tape measure without a fancy alignment rack. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the TTB was not meant to be precisely adjusted like modern suspension systems. So you simply get it as close as possible and that's good enough. I was lucky enough to be taught by some old school mechanics who use they're eyes and ears to diagnose problems instead of relying on a computer to tell them what is wrong.
thethePete
Explorer
I am a licensed mechanic and I specialize in Ford. I work at a Ford dealership, and I also focus in fabrication and offroad suspension. I just told you how to completely eliminate bump steer in a TTB set up, and scrub is inevitable for the reason you described, you're swinging the tire on an arc through the suspension travel. SLA suspension moves the tire in a different style of arc, keeping the contact patch uniform, you still get scrub but in a different way. Radical toe changes are what cause the abnormal wear on TTB front ends. It's exacerbated when you lift the truck and put the tierods at extreme angles. Stock configuration has them nearly parallel, so the toe change is minimal.
The uneven wear and poor bumpsteer characteristics are because the steering linkages do not move on the same arc as the control arm, or traction beam in this case. Swingset steering allows the tierod to move on the same arc by putting a "swinger" on either framerail at the same spot as the pivot for the i-beam or traction beam. This allows the tierod and the control arm to move together instead of on completely different arcs.
I feel as though you glazed over half my post and thought my comment about understanding suspension design as a personal attack, it was not. I have spent years studying suspension design and theory, as well as putting it into practice. I'm sharing wisdom, not slighting your efforts.
Also, fwiw, my friend has a 2wd i-beam F150 on a Skyjacker 6" drop bracket lift and I can attest to how hard this has been beaten and is still fine; it has ample support and bracing to the frame. I agree, it does create a larger lever for the suspension to twist against the frame, but not to a catastrophic degree. A 2" drop bracket with appropriate support is not going to make your suspension weaker. It has its benefits.
The uneven wear and poor bumpsteer characteristics are because the steering linkages do not move on the same arc as the control arm, or traction beam in this case. Swingset steering allows the tierod to move on the same arc by putting a "swinger" on either framerail at the same spot as the pivot for the i-beam or traction beam. This allows the tierod and the control arm to move together instead of on completely different arcs.
I feel as though you glazed over half my post and thought my comment about understanding suspension design as a personal attack, it was not. I have spent years studying suspension design and theory, as well as putting it into practice. I'm sharing wisdom, not slighting your efforts.
Also, fwiw, my friend has a 2wd i-beam F150 on a Skyjacker 6" drop bracket lift and I can attest to how hard this has been beaten and is still fine; it has ample support and bracing to the frame. I agree, it does create a larger lever for the suspension to twist against the frame, but not to a catastrophic degree. A 2" drop bracket with appropriate support is not going to make your suspension weaker. It has its benefits.
4x4junkie
Explorer
I agree completely. Skyjacker's Class II stuff is pretty darn good as far as bracket durability goes... Infact, their brackets are likely stronger than the OE brackets (their extra width and inner connection more than offsets the added leverage by redistributing lateral forces across a wider part of the frame).
But yeah, by far the biggest thing is the steering.
Just to clarify one thing in your last two posts, it still is very possible to have a mismatched arc that the steering travels through even with a swingset (aka crossover) setup if placement of the tierods is wrong... What's actually more important here (swingset or not) is that the steering (tierods) be mounted so that it's travel arc is in phase with the movement of the beams at ride height (usually this is simply a matter of having the steering be mounted on the same horizontal plane as the beam pivot axes). When things are in phase, tire wear (and handling) characteristics can be very good even with the stock steering link.
This is where so many lifts fail, and surely has contributed to the rap the suspension has. As I said above, numerous suspension lifts fail to drop the steering down the same amount the brackets drop the axle. This puts the linkage angle askew, which causes the toe to move out several degrees when you pile yourself, a few buddies, and everyone's gear into the truck (the opposite happens when you put tongue weight from a trailer on the back). This toe misalignment has a 10-20-fold greater impact on tires than the degree or two of camber change that may also occur. Many people don't realize this because the change in toe isn't readily apparent like the change in camber is, so people often put blame for their tire woes in the wrong place.
FWIW, packaging a swingset/crossover setup on a 4WD gets complicated because the front differential is right ********** in the middle of where the tierods want to be (forcing you to put bends in them for clearance). For this reason I run a K-Link setup on my rig (based off the "Superrunner" steering kit Superlift sells). A K-Link makes a rather small compromise in the geometry (affecting bumpsteer only at very extremes of travel) so that the tierods can be fully straight, maximizing their strength and rigidity. Like anything else, tierod (centerlink) placement is critical, but set up correctly (something Superlift actually failed to do on theirs), the setup works very well (as the 33,000 miles I got out of my last set of BFG KMs at the 50% wear point attests to), and is still many times better than the stock linkage.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
I went with custom lengths. They don't make a direct fit shock because the lift kits for the Bronco are so complicated.
The camber bushings I got have enough adjustment to make it work, but I couldn't get the passenger bushing out, so I'm waiting on the proper tool for removing them. I'm also doing a tire rod flip to handle the steering issues. I'm just waiting on the tie rod bushings needed to do the flip. I also got some new tires, 33x12.5.15 that Discount Tire just happened to have in stock. I was originally just going to get a tire patched after I found a nail in my old ones, but the deal was too good, since its so hard to track down that tires size.
norcal*PWRstroke
Adventurer
How is your Amazon LED light bar holding up since install? I have the same one I put lots of silicon in the end caps, and it has been water tight so far.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
So far, so good. No water intrusion that I've noticed. I do plan on a little change though. Mainly just flipping the mounting brackets so they're facing the other way so that I can move the light back enough to reduce the hood glare. Other than that, I'm very happy with it.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
Started a new project this week. I'm installing the center console from a Ford Raptor into my Bronco. Yesterday, I started to trim up the bottom edges to better fit the contours of my Bronco and today I ran the wiring of my switch panel and for the outlet inside the console. I also got it bolted down nice and tight. So far, I'm really liking it mainly because I now have cup holders that actually hold cups. I still need to run wiring to the outlets on the back of the console and figure out something for my tablet mount, but that will take a bit more time than I have right now.
I also need to figure out a way to make the sides blend in to the dash.
I also need to figure out a way to make the sides blend in to the dash.
thethePete
Explorer
Nice retrofit.
Cardboard templates transfered to either a piece of aluminum, or textured hdpe sheet would work well to blend it up to the dash. Some tabs on the dash to screw it into place, and make use of the stock trim attachment points on the console and you could make it blend quite nicely.
Cardboard templates transfered to either a piece of aluminum, or textured hdpe sheet would work well to blend it up to the dash. Some tabs on the dash to screw it into place, and make use of the stock trim attachment points on the console and you could make it blend quite nicely.
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
Just thinking it may be cheaper to sell the bronco and buy something else in Indiana, if it would save you 1500 bucks.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
Just a quick update. Managed to finish the alignment and suspension upgrade last weekend. Got the new Bilstein 4600 shocks installed, tie rod flip completed and finally got the front wheels aligned properly. She rides so much smoother now. I did remove the sway bar in order to make the tie-rod flip work, but so far, I'm not missing it. I did notice my lift springs have sagged a little since I installed them, but I'm betting that has more to do with the added weight of the winch up front, so I'm just going to find a leveling kit and throw that in there some time. You'll notice in the pic that the front wheel well is sitting about an inch lower than the rear.
This weekend I'll be re-gearing the 8.8 axle. I'm going from the stock 3.55 to 4.56. That should boost my MPGs a bit and give me more torque to boot. That will come in handy this summer when I'm moving.
I do plan on eventually going to extended radius arms, but that will have to wait till after moving. I just don't have the space or the cash to do that mod unless I run into a set in the junkyard.
This weekend I'll be re-gearing the 8.8 axle. I'm going from the stock 3.55 to 4.56. That should boost my MPGs a bit and give me more torque to boot. That will come in handy this summer when I'm moving.
I do plan on eventually going to extended radius arms, but that will have to wait till after moving. I just don't have the space or the cash to do that mod unless I run into a set in the junkyard.